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Rodman To Make "Huge Announcement"; Obama's Push To Punish Syria; Assad Warns: "Expect Every Action"; Assad Denies Chemical Weapon Use; Obama's Uphill Climb On Syria; NAACP President Ben Jealous Stepping Down

Aired September 09, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: She's jumping for joy and who can blame her? Serena Williams now a champion for the history books. The second hour of NEWSROOM starts now.

Good morning. Thank you very much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello. It is not easy to get inside North Korea, but former basketball star, Dennis Rodman, apparently knows the secret. He's just returned from his second trip this year inside North Korea. Rodman is talking about his meeting with Kim Jong-Un. Let's listen.

DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: There's about -- this is about breaching a gap to a country that people has says so bad. This country's not bad because the marshal now, he wants to change, and I'm there. He wants to change and the one thing -- what we hear, what we see in America is once people are here, don't see that over there. You write what you hear, but you don't see what you write.

If you meet the marshal over there, he's a very good guy. And it's serious -- he has to do his job, but he's a very good guy. And the one thing he gave me, he gave me the rice and everything -- doing one thing, he said, "Dennis, go over to America and say, guess what, we want people to come over here because we're not a bad country."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Dennis. Could you tell us about what you discussed, your plans and -- and reveal little about this basketball match that you've organized.

RODMAN: Well, it was more like a dream, you know. I talked to Dr. Patty power here, talked to Dr. Patty power here. It's funny that people think this is a gimmick. I would love -- it's not about the money. It's about doing -- trying to open Obama's mind and everyone's mind. You know what? You don't have to talk about politics. Talk about anything in the world. Meet him in Switzerland. Meet him in London. Meet him in -- just meet him, give him a call. That's all he wants.

COSTELLO: All right, we're going to jump out of this. Jason Carroll is in this news conference. He is monitoring this meeting. Besides, you heard Dennis Rodman says the North Korean leader wants Americans to come on over to see that North Korea's not so bad.

Let's head to Washington now, the start of one of the most important weeks for President Obama. He and his top aides put on a full court press as they push to punish Syria. The president's biggest challenge, convincing Congress, the American public, and the world with nothing more than circumstantial evidence.

In just a few hours, Congress gets back to work. At the top of its agenda, the president's plan for limited military action. And while they talk on Capitol Hill, Mr. Obama will be talking on television. He'll sit down with our own Wolf Blitzer later this afternoon as part of this big media blitz today.

It follows a sit down dinner President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden had last night with key GOP senators. That's them on the way to Biden's house in Washington. And while the president looks for support from lawmakers, he needs the backing of you, the backing of the American people. Right now, he certainly does not have. It six out of 10 Americans think congress should not approve a resolution authorizing military action.

Our senior White House correspondent, Brianna Keilar joins us now. It makes you wonder what the president can say.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, it certainly does, Carol. President Obama has a very heavy list, to say the list, in convincing Americans and members of Congress. He really has a problem with his own party. In fact, the former political arm, his former political arm, Organizing for America, has actually remained mum on Syria. That tells you something. Now President Obama is looking for a little assistance from his former secretary of state.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): President Obama getting some high powered help from none other than Hillary Clinton. A source telling CNN, she'll speak out on Syria when she comes here today for an unrelated event. The president needs the support. A new CNN/ORC poll shows 59 percent of Americans say Congress should not authorize U.S. military action in Syria. Trying to avoid a damaging defeat, he's pulling out all the stops, including interviews today with CNN's Wolf Blitzer and other major news networks, before a speech to the nation Tuesday night.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We cannot turn a blind eye to images like the ones we've seen out of Syria.

KEILAR: Images of children dying from nerve gas, videos the president's team has been showing senators in secret to get their votes, first obtained by CNN, now made available for all Americans to see. Obama's chief of staff also on a media blitz appearing on all five Sunday talk shows.

DENIS MCDONOUGH, CHIEF OF STAFF: I hope that before any member of Congress makes his decision on how to vote, they take a look at that video that you all made available to the world yesterday. Take a look at that and try to turn away from that.

KEILAR: Those videos expected to be shown at closed door briefings starting today for all members of Congress, returning for the dramatic debate and vote. To turn the tide, the president unexpectedly showed up Sunday night at a dinner hosted by Vice President Joe Biden to sell Republican senators on Syria. Today he's sending National Security Adviser Susan Rice to the Congressional Black Caucus, but opposition is growing even among Democrats.

MARK UDALL (D), SENATOR OF COLORADO: My heart is broken when I see that video and you see women and children dying as a result of chemical weapons, but the big question for the Congress right now is what is the most effective way to move forward?

JIM MCGOVERN (D), U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR MASSACHUSETTS: If I was the president, I would withdraw my request for the authorization at this particular point. I don't believe the support is there in Congress.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Now Syrian President Bashar Al Assad is making his case, as well. In an interview that aired on CBS News this morning, he told Charlie Rose that there's no evidence that he gassed his own people, Carol. But the White House's response is they say they're not surprised that someone who would use chemical weapons on civilians would also lie about it.

COSTELLO: He also threatened the United States. We're going to talk about that in just a bit. Brianna Keilar is reporting live from the White House. Also just a reminder, this afternoon, CNN's Wolf Blitzer will sit down with President Obama. You can see the entire interview tonight, 6:00 Eastern, in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Promises of retaliation against a U.S. military strike coming from Syrian PRESIDENT Bashar Al-Assad this morning, he first denied using questions, but also warned that if his country is attacked, there will be repercussions and America can expect everything including chemical weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE, HOST, "CHARLIE ROSE": Will the attacks against American bases in the Middle East if there's an air strike?

PRESIDENT BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIA: You should expect everything. Not necessarily through the government -- the government's not the only player in this region. You have different parties. You have different factions. You have different ideology. You have everything in it, you have to expect that.

ROSE: We'd like to know more and I think the president would like to know more, the American people would like to know if there's an attack, you know, what might be the repercussions and who might be engaged in those repercussions?

ASSAD: Before the event of September, in my discussions with the United States and our Congress, I used to say that don't deal with the terrorists and playing games, a different story. We're going to pay the price if you're not wise.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: Let's bring in CNN Pentagon correspondent Chris Lawrence. Jason Johnson, our political analyst, said that sure sounds like a threat. Like Bashar Al Assad is taunting President Obama and the United States.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It wasn't exactly subtle, Carol. You know, alluding to the fact that chemical weapons may be used. When he talks about it doesn't have to be the government, what he's saying is he doesn't have to be the one to retaliate against the United States. U.S. intelligence officials have told us that they have communications that indicate Iran may be planning a retaliation strike on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

Assad would have the ability to mobilize Hezbollah, getting tens of thousands of fighters out there, possibly targeting Israel and going after U.S. consulates and embassies in the region. I think that's one of the reasons that you saw the U.S. get so many people out of their embassy in Beirut on Friday. But mixed in with the threats were also some accusations aimed at the Obama administration, basically saying you don't have the evidence that you're telling everyone that you do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASSAD: Our soldiers in another area were attacked chemically, our soldiers. They went to the hospital as casualties because of chemical weapons, but in the area where they said the government used chemical weapons, we only had video. And we only have pictures and allegations. We're not there. Our forces, our police, our institutions don't exist. How can you talk about what's happening if you don't have evidence? We're not like the American administration. We're not like the social media or government. We're the government that deal with reality. When we have evidence, it's enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: And this is a savvy message here because it's clearly aimed not only at the undecided people within congress who have to vote to authorize this strike, but at the American people, as well. He talked about al Qaeda, about how his government is the one fighting al Qaeda and that any air strike on the Syrian regime would ultimately benefit al Qaeda. These are messages clearly aimed at the American people, and it shows that Bashar Al-Assad is well aware of the internal debate going on here now.

COSTELLO: I like -- I don't know if I liked it, but it was interesting that he said social media because most of the evidence coming out of Syria's from YouTube videos, right?

LAWRENCE: That's right. I mean, it was an aside. It was saying, look, if you're saying you have all this evidence and it's something even those of us in the media have said can there be a way in which you don't compromise your intelligence sources, but yet present more evidence to the American people. A lot of those congressmen who have had intelligence briefings have come out and said, look, we think the evidence is there, but the problem is that evidence isn't really being presented publicly. Bashar Al-Assad knows this. He knows this, and he sort of using that to sort of drive this message home saying, look, if you've got this evidence against me, show it.

COSTELLO: Chris Lawrence reporting live from the Pentagon today. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the president's push to punish Syria, is he winning the PR campaign? Can he win it? Well, I'll pose that question to the host of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Newt Gingrich, Van Jones, after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back. I'm Carol Costello. The president's push, Americans' reluctance for another war, and Assad's warning the United States should expect everything in retaliation for any kind of attack. Just some of the topics that will be in focus tonight when "CROSSFIRE" returns to CNN. Joining me now, two of the show's co-hosts, Van Jones and Newt Gingrich. Welcome to both of you.

Great to have you here. So Newt, I want to start with you. You heard President Bashar Al-Assad. He was talking in the United States, telling the president watch out, don't attack us because who knows, chemical weapons might be used against Americans.

NEWT GINGRICH, CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Well, look, I don't know what his capability is, but I think it's good any time you're about to start a war and that's what the Obama administration is proposing. It's good to be reminded that the other team gets to fight, too and it's good to be reminded that it's not always going to be one sided. So I think that in part if you were in Assad's position, you're trying to convince the U.S. not to do this. Charlie Rose shows up on your doorstep, you're going to look as big and bluff as much as you can to try to get the Americans to back down. Whether he could deliver or not, I don't know.

COSTELLO: I was going to ask, Van, is this a bluff?

VAN JONES, CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": I don't know. This is just bizarre to me. It's like kinder, gentler dictator day. You have Dennis Rodman over there talking about how wonderful Kim is in North Korea. Then you get Assad on TV. You expect this mustache-twisting villain. He looks like a very homely muppet, kind of, you know, very nice guy. Then he makes horrible threats, master manipulator trying to scare the American people.

This is why Obama wants to do something because he doesn't want to embolden people like this to come on TV, come in our home and try to intimidate the American people. I just think that what the president is proposing is likely to make things worse and not better. But I thought that was despicable. He's a master manipulator trying to scare the American people. I hope the president calls him out on that.

COSTELLO: So Newt, will the president call him out? I mean, he's given like six interviews today and tomorrow he addresses the American people. GINGRICH: Yes. I mean, candidly, I think it's probably a mistake to do the six interviews. The presidency should be above the norm. Tomorrow night's speech is what matters. If he is successful tomorrow night, he will convince the American people however reluctantly, that we have no choice but to hit Assad. If he is not successful tomorrow night, his proposal is doomed and will go down to a very, very serious defeat in Congress. So I think tomorrow night's what matters.

COSTELLO: Well -- I mean, how much can the president say unless he presents a plan to the American people, Van? That's what people want to hear. They want to hear a plan. They want to hear the same old stuff he's been saying.

JONES: Well, I am sure they are working very, very hard to craft a narrative here. I think a lot of people -- this thing was happening in August. People were still on summer vacation. They are still trying to get their heads wrapped around it. My view is we've not gone to the United Nations. We haven't built a global coalition. We don't have a plan to win the war or the peace and shouldn't go to war. That's my position.

But I think the president has the responsibility to get on -- on and explain the world from his point of view. He's been half hawk and half dove. A half hawk/half dove bird can't flay in Washington, D.C. He's got to make a strong case for action and then let's see where it lands. If he can't win the American people over by the end of this week, he should withdraw this resolution, and we should get around the table to figure out a more peaceful resolution to the Syrian crisis.

COSTELLO: Mixed messages are coming from Republicans, too. Senator John McCain said over the weekend if President Obama puts boots on the ground then that would be cause for impeachment. Why bring that up when Senator McCain's been the biggest hawk on this issue for months?

GINGRICH: Go ahead, Van --

JONES: I'll leave that to newt. I don't understand why McCain would start threatening to impeach the guy who is trying to get the country to rally behind, but --

COSTELLO: Exactly. Isn't that strange, Newt?

GINGRICH: No, it tells you how big the muddle is. I mean, you have McCain who says "I want more than just bombing, but I don't want a lot more." Then you have other people like Senator Leahy who says "I like the smallest amount of bombing possible." The president is trying to square this circle in which he's got people on both sides saying, "I might vote yes. Why don't you wink at me and tell me what you want."

And then of course, you have McCain going off -- I was startled yesterday when all of a sudden you get, you know, McCain, impeachment possible. I'm thinking, wait a second. He's on the president's side. What is he talking about?

JONES: There is -- there is one congressional leader I think needs to get a little bit of a pat on the back. Tulsi Gabbard, the young Iraq, the congresswoman from Hawaii, President Obama's home state, a lot of Democrats waiting to see where does she come down? She's a combat veteran, 32 years old. She came out and said, no, the case has not been made. We should not go with these strikes.

I'm hoping that people like her, these younger veterans will come forward with a better plan to deal with the crisis than just dropping bombs over there. I thought it was very, very telling that even Tulsi Gabbard, one of the rising stars of the Democratic Party, a combat veteran, a Democrat says no on the strikes, big deal.

COSTELLO: Interesting, the Congressional Black Caucus, right? Susan Rice, the national security adviser, is going to go over and talk to them. We haven't really heard much from the Congressional Black Caucus, Newt.

GINGRICH: No, they're conflicted, as Van can tell you. On the one hand, they feel very close to the president. On the other hand, historically they've been very much against war. So you know that they are in very deep difficulties trying to sort out what they ought to be doing. But Van has made a point that I think we need to take a deep breath and think about as a country. There are a lot of tools available in the United States. There are a lot of things we can do. This doesn't have to come down to a handful of bombs or nothing.

It can come down to a totally new strategy, approaching this in a very different way. I have some friends, for example, who have laid out an entire cyber-war campaign that would not involve firing anything, but would dramatically disrupt the Assad government. So a lot of different things we could be doing, and we shouldn't necessarily get trapped into bombs or anything as our final choice.

COSTELLO: Newt Gingrich, Van Jones, thank you very much for being with me this morning. I know you have a busy day ahead. I appreciate it.

JONES: Thanks.

GINGRICH: Glad to be with you.

COSTELLO: Glad to have you here.

Why is it busy because they're just getting started, "CROSSFIRE" returns to CNN tonight. Join Newt, Van, Stephanie Cutter, S.E. Cupp air every weeknight, 6:30 Eastern.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, he's the youngest person ever to lead the NAACP. Now he's calling it quits. Ben Jealous talks to CNN's Don Lemon about why he is stepping down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The youngest person ever to lead the nation's largest and oldest civil rights organization is cutting his tenure short. NAACP President Ben Jealous says when he steps down on December 31st, the organization will be more powerful, stronger, and financially sustainable than weather when he started five years ago. CNN's Don Lemon talked to Jealous about what drove his decision to resign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I want to spend time with my family all the time and sometimes it usually means someone got kicked out. I'm being honest. I saw you a week ago. You were very happy. I wondered why, and --

BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT, NAACP: There you go. My chair asked when I called her, well, is there somebody who's luring you away, and I said, "Yes, there is. His name is Jack and her name is Morgan." My son's 14 months. My daughter is 7-1/2 and so this seems like the opportune time. I told my daughter four and a half few years ago when she asked me, when are you coming back, Daddy. I said, "give me five years."

I explained to her how important this organization was, our family had belonged for five generations. I had an important role to take it to the next level. Having done that, there was no excuse not to keep the promise to my daughter and be able to spend that time with both of them.

LEMON: The biggest civil rights challenges remaining as you decide to step down.

JEALOUS: Look, we are in a real fight on voting rights, and it's likely to be a generational battle because it's being waged against us by people who are, you know, fully cognizant that in 2043 this country becomes -- the majority people of color. They're trying to hold on to the old order for as long as possible. I would not have stepped down if I wasn't confident that the leadership of John Lewis and leadership of Jim Sensenbrenner and Nancy -- Nancy Pelosi and Eric Cantor is all going to add up to us getting the reauthorization of Section 4. If you -- the restoration of section four --

LEMON: The voting rights act, right.

JEALOUS: Yes, and in the Senate. But I also wouldn't be leaving if the NAACP across the country wasn't rising to the challenges of this day so effectively.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Jealous says during his tenure he helped doubled the NAACP's revenue from $23 million to $46 million. That happened in just five years, he says. He also says the grassroots donor base expanded from about 16,000 to 132,000 people at that time. Jealous told Don he plans to teach and to invest time in training the next generation of leaders.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, President Obama's tough climb on Syria as new polls show a nation opposed to war. We'll break down the numbers for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Happening in the NEWSROOM, a resounding no. That's the response of the majority of Americans when asked if Congress should OK President Obama's plan to strike Syria.

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