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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Zimmerman`s Ex: `He Threatened Me with a Gun`
Aired September 09, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Breaking news tonight, police swarm George Zimmerman`s rental home during an explosive fight between him, his estranged wife Shellie, and her dad.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live tonight.
Shellie Zimmerman filed for divorce from George just last week. Police raced to the scene earlier today after Shellie called 911, claiming George Zimmerman had a gun, was threatening her and her dad, and that George punched her father right in the nose.
Hmm. Sounds familiar. A punch in the nose. Ironically, that`s what George Zimmerman says Trayvon Martin did to him moments before Zimmerman shot the unarmed teen dead. As the world knows, Zimmerman was acquitted of murder just two months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN, ESTRANGED WIFE OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN (via phone): He`s in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun, and he keeps saying, "Step closer." And he was just threatening all of us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find George Zimmerman not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmerman has been taken into custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice, no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice, no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice, no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following him?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ACQUITTED OF MURDER (via phone): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t need you do that.
S. ZIMMERMAN: And he`s going shoot us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She stood by her man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that this there was a gun present.
S. ZIMMERMAN: I don`t know what he`s capable of. I`m really -- really scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible domestic altercation. Is this who he really is?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Since his acquittal, George Zimmerman has had a slew of relatively minor run-ins with the cops. Today`s dispute certainly took that to a whole other level, if you know what I mean.
Zimmerman has been living in a suburban Orlando home owned by his father-in-law, the guy he allegedly socked in the nose. Police say Shellie and her dad came over today to get some things that she had asked for in the divorce. Sounds like things went downhill and fast.
Here`s Shellie`s call to 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay on the line with me.
S. ZIMMERMAN: OK. OK. I don`t know he`s capable of. I`m really -- really scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. There are multiple units in the area. All right? This is Shellie, right? What`s your phone number that you`re calling on now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: The police are here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is Zimmerman doing right now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: He`s in his truck. There`s police here. There`s (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see them?
S. ZIMMERMAN: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he see them?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, they`re telling his bodyguard to get out of the way. Oh, my gosh.
Dad -- Dad, get behind a car or something. I don`t know if he`s going start shooting at us or not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you outside right now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, we are. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Dad, get inside the house. George might start shooting at us, I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. Zimmerman was not arrested, though, and his estranged wife and his father-in-law decided not to file complaints.
So is George Zimmerman spiraling out of control or is Shellie Zimmerman trying to distance herself from her controversial husband and her role in one of the country`s most hotly debated trials?
What do you think at home? I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877- JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
We have an incredible panel in the Lion`s Den tonight including Tanya Young Williams, who knows who it`s like to live through a husband`s high- profile death trial, and George Zimmerman`s goods buddy, Frank Taaffe.
But we`re going to start with attorney J. Wyndal Gordon. J. Wyndal, what do you think of George Zimmerman walking away with no charges after being accused of punching his father-in-law in the nose?
J. WYNDAL GORDON, ATTORNEY: I think the whole case is entirely crazy. I think what we`re seeing here is a pattern.
George Zimmerman has killed a child. He`s fighting a woman and an elderly man. What`s going on with George Zimmerman? We have to really wonder about this guy and what he has become since his acquittal. He thinks he`s invincible. He thinks he`s above the law, and whenever he gets in trouble, his family tends to bail him out one way or the other.
Something happened at that house today. Something happened that was very serious. And you can tell by the 911 call. But will it go through to a -- to a court of law to be adjudicated there? I don`t know. I don`t think so.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, less than two months after he was acquitted of murder, Shellie Zimmerman says the not-guilty verdict left George feeling invincible, and she says he`s not the same man she married. Listen to this from ABC News, and then we`ll debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. ZIMMERMAN (on camera): In my opinion, he feels invincible. I just think he`s making some reckless decisions. I have a selfish husband, and I think George is all about George.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Instead of laying low, Zimmerman keeps popping back into the spotlight for all the wrong reasons: pulled over for allegedly speeding twice. He also visited a gun manufacturer who makes the very type of gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin. And he even posed for a photo at the gun factory, something even his own legal team admitted seems inappropriate and now this.
Straight out to the Lion`s Den. We`re going to go to Zimmerman`s good buddy, Frank Taaffe. I mean, this is a lot of behavior, Frank, a lot of acting out. It`s not all coincidence. Could Zimmerman really feel invincible and think he can get away with ever -- whatever he wants now?
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: No, Jane. I think, personally speaking, knowing what I know of George, this is another example of a couple going through a very heated divorce. And there`s going to be a lot of heated hostilities. And we got to take into the fact that the police (UNINTELLIGIBLE) department...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank, he allegedly punched his father-in-law in the nose. Whether or not they want to file charges, that`s what Shellie said on the 911 call. We all heard it. She`s telling her dad, "Get into the house. I`m afraid he`s going to shoot." Not that he did.
But -- but that`s not just a normal divorce, OK. I got divorced once upon a time. I went to a peaceful mediator. Frank.
GORDON: George Zimmerman is a killer. We`ve seen this behavior with O.J. Simpson. Even after his acquittal he has the un -- insatiable desire to remain in the media, to remain relevant. Whether he`s at the Kel-Tec manufacturer posing with this 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun or he`s being pulled over by police. He won`t stop.
He should be afraid to even spit on the sidewalk after his acquittal. And so now we`re seeing him engaged in reckless conduct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why would you say that? Why would you say that? To say he should be afraid to spit on the sidewalk?
GORDON: I get that. I get that.
KELLY SAINDON, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I`m not a Zimmerman fan at all, but that is ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let her speak. Let her speak. All right. So what are you going to -- what do you say, Kelly?
SAINDON: So why is -- why is he saying Zimmerman should be afraid to spit? We believe in our justice system. He was acquitted. I don`t necessarily agree with that, but...
GORDON: It has nothing to do with the justice system. It has to do with getting away with murder.
SAINDON: I think right now that -- It does. It does, it does, it does. He went through, he was tried and he was acquitted. So what you`re saying is double talk.
GORDON: I`m not trying to re-litigate the case with you.
SAINDON: You can`t say he got away with murder.
GORDON: All I`m saying is that he needs to be...
SAINDON: But he was acquitted!
GORDON: ... making smart decisions because of what he just went through.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to give Frank Taaffe a chance to respond to this.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank, the reason I interrupted you, you say, "Well, they`re going through a divorce." This is not just a regular divorce. Millions of people get divorced. They don`t allegedly punch their father- in-law in the nose. I just really would like for you to address that.
GORDON: Especially when he was in his father-in-law`s house.
TAAFFE: You used the correct word; you said alleged. And you know, coming from a convicted perjurer, if you listen to that 911 tape, I would say a majority of that has been fabricated. I mean, look who she`s on the phone with. She`s on the phone with 911...
GORDON: OK. Let me get this straight. You`ve been friends with both of them, right? And now she`s a convicted perjurer?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let Frank -- let Frank finish.
TAAFFE: His wife was convicted of perjury. Shellie was convicted of perjury, that`s correct.
GORDON: Wow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. So what are you saying, that she`s lying?
TAAFFE: I believe that she is just bolstering her situation.
Look, she threw her husband under the bus on national TV, intimated the fact that there was going to be a divorce. It was being tabled. And, you know, personally speaking, you know, did she really stand by her man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, Frank.
TAAFFE: She`s just mad because he showed up at the house with a blond woman, and that set the wheels in motion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
GORDON: Again, bad decisions by Zimmerman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait, wait, wait. I -- I have to get to this factor, though, because this is the mystery of this entire incident, is who is that woman in the black full-length -- with the blond hair.
OK. At the end of the call you could hear Shellie Zimmerman gasp in disbelief at the sight of a woman, presumably a woman with her estranged husband, George. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. ZIMMERMAN: Hold on one second.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Shellie, take a couple of deep breaths for me, all right?
Someone is in there?
S. ZIMMERMAN: There`s a woman in there. Oh my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my...
S. ZIMMERMAN: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shellie?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh. So take a look at this video from a chopper. There`s a woman there in black, all right? She`s a mystery woman, long blond hair, wearing this black head-to-toe outfit, standing next to him.
Jean Casarez, you`ve followed this from the very beginning. Shellie goes, "Oh, my God. There`s a woman," and there`s a mystery woman. What do you make of it?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it`s at the end of the 911 call so we can`t say that all of this specificity by her was motivated because he had a woman in the car. She just discovered it at the end of call.
But this whole phone call focuses around a gun. So the question is: Did they find a gun on George Zimmerman? Did they collect a gun at the scene? Did they see a gun at the scene?
And she also talks about a knife, that he took out a knife and that he -- he marked the iPad and then threw it, I think. And so that`s another alleged weapon right there. Was that knife found?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Walsh, we need a psychologist right now. Is this -- OK.
GORDON: There was a gun recovered from the house, media accounts say.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, he says that he packs heat. His brother says that he needs a gun more than ever now.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m sure he has a gun.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: His own attorney said that they let him keep the gun...
GORDON: So he can threaten his wife.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... he used to kill Trayvon Martin. So, yes, he went to the gun manufacturing plant and posed. I mean, he seems a little bit focused on guns, to put it mildly.
But Wendy Walsh, I mean, they`re there, apparently dividing up their shared belongings. We know she filed for divorce. They`d been separated since August 13. A, is it possible there`s a woman who -- many woman are attracted to men who are in the news in this fashion. We all know that. And is it possible that there`s -- that this is a real mess involving, yes, perhaps another woman?
WALSH: I think it`s a huge possibility.
You know, it`s really interesting, Jane, is that women don`t -- when women break up with a guy, they actually break up with a guy. When a man breaks up with a woman, it`s usually because he`s leaving for another relationship. Men do better within relationships.
So it wouldn`t surprise me in the least to know that he would have another woman waiting in the wings. But the more interesting thing is when he was acquitted I said to myself, you know what? Just like I said during the O.J. Simpson days, give him enough rope, he`ll hang himself. Just let him go. Let`s see what happens.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side...
WALSH: Eventually, personality stuff comes out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going to talk to Tanya Young Williams. She knows what it`s like to stand by her man during a high-profile trial. She is the estranged wife of Jason Williams, the NBA star who shot and killed his limo driver.
What`s it like to be Shellie? What`s it like to be Tanya? We`ll find out on the other side, and we`re taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is claiming that, according to the 911 call, that Mr. Zimmerman was threatening her and her father with a weapon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had his hand on a gun, I believe is how it was put?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s how the 911 call went, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were still assessed or determined to tell the court that he is not a violent person and not a threat to the community?
S. ZIMMERMAN (via phone): Absolutely he is not a violent person nor a threat to the community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But today, a 911 call made by his estranged wife, Shellie Zimmerman, says, "Oh, my gosh, he punched my dad" -- George Zimmerman`s father-in-law -- "in the nose and scratched my iPad," even knocked the glasses off, allegedly, purportedly, according to the 911 call. But no charges have been filed, because neither Shellie nor her dad want to file a complaint.
Straight out to the phone lines. Lisa, Wisconsin, your question or thought. Lisa.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call. I just find it very irritating. His demeanor is so grandiose. It just amazes me how he could have done what he did, which is optionally to leave and just have that attitude and grandiose like everybody owes him something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I do think, Candice DeLong -- you`re a retired FBI profiler. You profile people who are criminals. And I have to say he`s not a criminal. I mean, he was acquitted in the legal sense. He was acquitted to shooting Trayvon Martin to death.
Now he`s purportedly, allegedly, punched his father-in-law in the nose, and no charges are filed against him. But what do you profile him as?
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, I didn`t -- first of all, you know, I`ve never been silent about the fact that I disagreed with the verdict. I believe that he is a violent man, and I believe that the jury got it wrong.
I -- if Shellie is telling the truth -- and a gentleman earlier on the panel said she`s a convicted perjurer. I believe George is, as well.
GORDON: Yes, right.
DELONG: He stood in front of a judge and said he had no money for his bail. And so he went -- you know, and he did. He did have money. He cried poor when he wasn`t. So George is just as guilty as she is and lied about it. That`s the same thing.
TAAFFE: ... about that. She did.
DELONG: Hang on. Yes, he did. He had assets. He had a -- close to $200,000 in assets.
TAAFFE: He had no accessibility. There was no Internet service in the jail, so he relied on her to speak...
GORDON: That is the weakest...
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: ... at his initial...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were talking in code. They were talking in code, Frank. We know that.
DELONG: All right. So -- so at any rate, I think that, when George was acquitted, the jury bought him his next assault. That may have been what happened -- when was it? This morning, last night, at -- with Shellie and her father-in-law.
People seem to be questioning if Shellie is telling the truth now about this -- what she said on the 911 call. The police are saying charges are not being filed against Shellie -- brought by Shellie or her father-in- law. They are not saying Shellie is being arrested for filing a false report or calling a false 911 call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
DELONG: They`re not saying that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank, I want to give you a chance to respond.
GORDON: ... common that people are held in domestic violence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAAFFE: ... calling it a domestic violence shooting, there`s no probable cause. And this isn`t domestic violence. He wasn`t there to celebrate a birthday party. They were there to split up their pots and pans and to make, you know, proper allocation of what was theirs. And I don`t know if any of y`all on this panel have been through a divorce...
GORDON: Did you just say that there was no probable cause?
TAAFFE: Please let me finish.
GORDON: I want to make sure I understood what you said.
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: ... heated, and they`ve just been through the trial of their life. And, you know, his speeding ticket, which was issued by the Lake Mary Police Department, which is the same agency that went out to this domestic violence incident today, and there was no probable cause.
GORDON: That`s wrong.
TAAFFE: And she did change her statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know that, Frank. You don`t know that.
(CROSSTALK)
GORDON: When there is an allocation that someone has been punched in the nose and that someone has threatened them with a gun, that`s probable cause, Frank.
TAAFFE: Allegedly. Allegedly.
GORDON: That`s probably cause. Lawyers know that. That`s probable cause.
TAAFFE: That`s an allegation (ph).
GORDON: What happened -- what happened in this case is what happens in a lot of domestic violence cases, is that when people -- they`ve just been through the trial of their life. They just don`t want to go through it again. They`re tired. They don`t want to go through the media exposure.
TAAFFE: ... unlike the injuries that were sustained to the back of George`s head.
DELONG: Is it a fact or not that George Zimmerman`s attorney went to Shellie`s home?
TAAFFE: There were no injuries...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she -- we saw pictures of George Zimmerman`s attorney at the home. Yes, Candice, we saw pictures of the attorney, Mark O`Mara, at the home.
DELONG: So -- so Shellie calls in this desperate 911 call, saying this that and the other, violent things that George has done, the knifing the iPad, hitting her father in the face and threatening...
GORDON: How about being arrested for resisting arrest and assault on a police officer years ago?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but let`s just stay with this.
DELONG: All right. Then Mark O`Mara -- Mark O`Mara, George`s attorney from the murder trial, shows up at the house, is there for a while, leaves and then all of a sudden Shellie is simpatico with George again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are you suggesting? I mean, Mark O`Mara is a stand-up guy. I do not associate him with any of his clients. Nor do I associate any attorneys with their clients. They`ve got to defend people. That`s what defense attorneys do.
GORDON: This is -- this is what it is, if you take down -- if you take down George...
DELONG: What would he be doing there?
WALSH: He would be doing his job.
GORDON: If you take out George -- if you take out George, and even the wife knows that...
WALSH: He`s not her lawyer.
GORDON: There may be some deals on the table that she knows about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, wait.
GORDON: And if you take out George, then those deals would be off the table.
TAAFFE: Walk in there and say don`t charge my client.
GORDON: He doesn`t have to have power. I`m sure he has influence to communicate with the wife.
TAAFFE: That`s you trying to connect the dots here.
GORDON: They`re easy to connect.
TAAFFE: You know, it`s a simple procedure in a domestic violence call.
WALSH: Jane -- Jane, we can sum it up easily.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Let Wendy Walsh sum it up for a second. Go ahead.
WALSH: OK. We can sum it up. There is a fine line between love and hate, and when people are divorcing emotions run high. And their very much intrinsic animal instincts will come out when they want to defend themselves. They feel fear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I got divorced. I went to a peaceful mediator, and then my husband and I went to have lunch. And we`re still friends. I talked to him last week. Doesn`t have to be that way.
On the other side of the break we`re going to talk to Tanya Young Williams. Thank you for your patience, Tanya.
Thank you, viewers. Stay right there. We`re just getting started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe she`s just tired that now he`s become infamous and her life is going to be very hard to live with him, and right now he`s just not worth the -- not worth the risk she has to take to be with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he inside now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: No. He`s in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying step closer. He`s just threatening all of us with his firearm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Step closer and what?
S. ZIMMERMAN: And he`s going to shoot us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is Shellie Zimmerman, the estranged wife of George Zimmerman, calling 911 this afternoon and the police swarmed the house that apparently belongs to her dad as she accused George of punching her father, George`s father-in-law, in the nose, knocking off his glasses and also scratching her iPad. And she said she was scared.
At one point she was like, "Dad, go into the house. Go in the house."
We`re going to get some breaking news in a second on whether or not George Zimmerman is believed to have had a gun during this altercation.
But first, what is Shellie Zimmerman going through? Well, we have a woman who knows. Tanya Young Williams stood through her husband as he went through this absolutely insane trial. Your husband, an NBA star, Jason Williams, shot and killed his limo driver. And he went through a lengthy trial. The jury deadlocked on manslaughter. Eventually, he pleaded guilty to assault.
You lived through all this. You stood by him, but then you became estranged after the trial. I mean, why after? Why not at the very beginning?
TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, EX-WIFE OF JASON WILLIAMS: Well, Jane, when you -- when someone you love has, as Jason did, an accident, which is very different from George Zimmerman, which is a purposeful killing, but when someone you love goes through a trying situation, that is not the time to leave them, because you still love them.
And when you`re in the throes of the trial you actually become closer because it is an all-consuming experience in your life. You eat, you sleep, you drink, everything is about the trial and fighting for freedom.
But you find oftentimes once the trial is over you don`t have that commonality. The conversations, you -- there`s a loss in conversation, and you start to figure out what is this relationship really about? Because we don`t have the same bond, which would have been the trial that`s keeping us together.
I would have to say when I listen to George Zimmerman and Shellie talk on the phone, even when they were trying to hide the money, I said then, this does not seem like a couple that`s in love. And therefore I felt that he was using her for the trial. He needed her support. She was gullible enough to believe that he loved her, and she stood by his side.
It`s very, very tough to leave a situation and then the person you love for the most part says, "I`m done, thank you. I`m over it."
And she got to the point where she said, "You know what? I can do well enough by myself." And there is a saying that says hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. And he scorned her, and she`s coming back for him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, she seemed so happy. She was crying tears of joy -- you see it right there -- when her husband is acquitted and then -- then August 13, a month after the not-guilty verdict, she`s -- they get separated.
WILLIAMS: Jane, it`s an emotional experience. Going through trial, speaking with lawyers. You`re living this daily every day with the news hanging over your head. What`s going to happen next?
And when you find out that the answer is for her not guilty, it`s the tears of relief. And I think she did love George. Because he is a narcissist and because he is a manipulator, he in fact manipulated her so she would be the piece of candy he needed by his side during this trial. When it was over, George went back to George.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to give Frank the opportunity. Frank, you`re his friend. You hear that he`s being called a narcissist, a manipulator. What say you?
TAAFFE: Well, let`s go back to the relationship, since the young lady knows so much about them, that she was in love with him. You know, you`ve got to understand, George worked full-time while she was going to school full-time. He loved her enough to say, "You know what? I want you to have a career. So I`m going to work full-time until" -- to allow her to go and finish her nursing degree. So let`s go back to the premise here of who really loved who.
Now you take...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank, why do you think they broke up? Why do you think they broke up?
TAAFFE: Well, I think they have been through -- first of all, let`s go back to the night of the shooting. She was already living out of the house. The relationship was already at a breaking point prior to the Trayvon Martin purposeful killing...
WILLIAMS: That`s pretty much what I said was obvious.
TAAFFE: ... which was really self-defense. I liked the way she worked that in there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I did not know that. I did not know that they were estranged on the night of the shooting. This is news to me.
TAAFFE: On the night of the shooting, she was living out of the house. So already going into the trial of the century, according to Mr. Crump, this -- this trial went ahead and really put the strain on it even more. Now afterwards...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But, wait, Frank, you`re the -- Frank, you`re the one who said she didn`t stand by him. You`re the one that said she`s a convicted perjurer. You`re the one that`s always pro-George, pro-George, pro-George. And right now it`s, "Well, wait, actually, let`s tell the facts."
She wasn`t there. She did stand by him. She did lie, and he helped her. So maybe when you do that be a little more objective in your delivery.
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: I am being objective.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s extremely frustrating to hear...
TAAFFE: I`m illustrating the fact that she was there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... you put her down and then say she wasn`t there in the beginning.
TAAFFE: She was there as a face. She just put on a good face for the trial because you got to remember, she was guilty by...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got leave it there. Stay right there. We`ll be right back on the other side. We`re just getting started. We got breaking news for you about the gun issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She stood by her man like Tammy Wynette and she probably shouldn`t have. So that`s pretty much it. She did what was right for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a domestic issue happening at the residence.
CROWD: Trayvon, Trayvon.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ACQUITTED FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S MURDER: I just felt like something was off about him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
G. ZIMMERMAN: They said "Are you following him?" I said yes because I was in the area. And he said, "We don`t need you to do that." And I said, "Ok."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was being threatened with a handgun.
MARK O`MARA, ATTORNEY OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: George is a real person. He`s not just whatever images people flash across the screen.
SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S WIFE: He continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying, "Step closer," he`s just threatening all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight, George Zimmerman back in the news. Of course, he`s the man who was acquitted in the shooting death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. His estranged wife Shellie called 911 this afternoon and says "Help"-- very afraid of her estranged husband, George Zimmerman.
Listen now as we play pretty much the entire 911 call for you beginning to end and then we`re going to debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, do you need police fire or medical?
S. ZIMMERMAN: I need police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We do have units in rout to you ma`am. Is he still there?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, he is. He`s trying to shut the garage door on me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he inside now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: No. He`s in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun. And he keeps saying "Step closer." He`s just threatening all of us with his firearm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Step closer and what?
S. ZIMMERMAN: And he`s going shoot us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
S. Zimmerman: He punched my dad in the nose. My dad has a mark on his face. I saw his glasses were on the floor.
He accosted my father and then took my iPad out of my hands and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife. And there`s a Lake Mary City worker across the street that I believe saw all of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
S. ZIMMERMAN: He`s sitting in his truck right now.
He just showed up, but my phone died so I had to call you from my father`s phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. That`s what I was wondering. I was trying to get you back and it kept going to voice mail.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
S. ZIMMERMAN: But I`m really, really afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have unites in the area where you`re at, ok. So just stay on the line with me.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok. Ok. I don`t know what he`s capable of. I`m really, really scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. There are multiple units in the area. All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- you said this is Shellie, right? What`s your phone number that you`re calling on now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes. Oh, the police are here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is Zimmerman doing right now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: He`s in his truck. There`s police here with their weapons drawn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he see them?
S. ZIMMERMAN: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he see them?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes. They`re telling his bodyguard to get out of the way. Oh my God. Dad, get behind the car or something. I don`t know if he`s going to start shooting at us or not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys outside right now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, we are and the police have their weapons drawn. Dad, get inside the house. George might start shooting at us. I don`t know. We`re going inside the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. Go back inside.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Oh my god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys both inside now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. Stay in there. Ok? Let the police take care of it.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok. He`s got his hands in the air. He`s not touching his weapon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
Does your father need medical?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Dad, do you need medical? He says no but I think he does. He does need medical. He`s shaken. He says he feels like he`s going to have a heart attack. His nose -- yes, you do because your nose look like it`s all -- it could be broken. I think he should have medical. If we could have an ambulance come.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure. They will have to stage. They won`t be able to approach until the situation outside is secure.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys are safe inside, correct?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shellie, you`re doing really good ok? This is a tough situation for anyone. All right.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll stay on the line with you, all right --
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- until our units can speak with you. All right.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you ok? You said he did take something out of your hand. Do you need medical as well?
S. ZIMMERMAN: I don`t think so. Maybe just shock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. I`m going to go ahead and get FD to respond, ok.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok. Dad, get inside right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make sure he stays inside --
S. ZIMMERMAN: Stay inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- until someone comes and lets you guys know it`s ok for you to step out. Stay inside.
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re getting FD (ph) on the line to come to you. All right. But like I said, they can`t come up to check out your father until they secure the scene, ok?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Ok. Hold on one second.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, Shellie. Take a couple of deep breaths for me. All right?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Someone is in there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me.
S. ZIMMERMAN: There`s a woman in there. Oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my --
S. ZIMMERMAN: Shellie?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to "The Lion`s Den". Oh my God, indeed. What an extraordinary tape and we understand Jon Leiberman, investigative reporter, you have some new information.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Jane. We`re getting a lot of information in from police sources. Sources down there in Florida are telling me that number one, a gun was never actually seen.
So in other words my sources are saying that Mr. Zimmerman never had a gun out. And in fact my sources are going even further and saying that they believe Mr. Zimmerman didn`t have a gun on him at all.
Now we can`t confirm that but what they definitely confirm is that a gun was never brandished, a gun was never taken out of the holster. That`s number one.
Number two, my police sources are saying that this is still an active domestic violence investigation on both sides. In other words, they`re looking not only at George Zimmerman but also at his estranged wife as well. And though they tell me it appears that charges are unlikely, in Florida, you can in fact file domestic violence charges without the consent of the victim. So if they have other evidence, surveillance video, other sorts of pieces that they could piece together they could indeed file charges --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And certainly in the coming days, she could file for a restraining order. She might be in the process of doing that right now. Oh, that rings a bell. Yes, another woman had filed for a restraining order against George Zimmerman eight years ago -- an ex-fiancee.
We`ll get to that. We`ll talk to somebody who was on the ground right near this location. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he inside now?
S. ZIMMERMAN: No, he`s in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying step closer. He`s just threatening all of us with his firearm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Step closer and what?
S. ZIMMERMAN: And he`s going to shoot us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.
S. ZIMMERMAN: He punched my dad in the nose. My dad has a mark on his face. I saw his glasses were on the floor. He had accosted my father and then took my iPad out of my hand and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the circuit court of the 18th Judicial Circuit in and for Seminole County, Florida. State of Florida versus George Zimmerman: verdict, we the verdict find George Zimmerman not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s been less than two months since that extraordinary not guilty verdict and tonight George Zimmerman in trouble again, not arrested but accused by his estranged wife of punching her dad, his father-in-law, in the nose and she expressed a lot of fear in the 911 call that we played a second ago.
Let`s go straight out to Eric Sandoval, WKMG reporter. You`ve been on the ground where all this is going on. What do you know?
ERIC SANDOVAL, WKMG REPORTER (via telephone): We know that the house that this all happened in actually belonged to Shellie Zimmerman`s mom and dad. This is basically where Shellie and George were living the entire time the trial was going on and his whole situation was unfolding before the national headlines.
And ironically, this is only a stone`s throw away from the Seminole County courthouse where his entire trial was going on. It`s literally a block away from the courthouse.
So this afternoon Shellie was not supposed to be moving out of the house today. She was supposed to have been done last Saturday, moving out of this house. And apparently forgot a few things. Went in today with her mom and dad and her brother.
And George shows up. And that`s when the altercation started, that`s when words were exchanged. And that`s when he apparently put his hand on his weapon. We know that it was not brandished. It was not pointed at anybody. But he kept his hand on his weapon and apparently made some remarks indicating that he would use it.
He also allegedly punched Shellie Zimmerman`s father in the face. He was treated and was not taken to the hospital with any major injuries. Shellie and her family waited at the house for their attorneys to arrive before they gave any kind of police statement.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eric?
SANDOVAL: That delayed everything by an hour, hour and a half. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this.
There was a mystery woman, a blond in a long black outfit, maybe we have that video because at the very end of the 911 call Shellie says words to the effect of "Oh my God, there`s a woman. There`s a woman in there, oh my God." There she is. You saw her there.
SANDOVAL: We don`t know who she was. Actually it`s funny because George stayed hidden under a shade tree most of the afternoon. We could only see him from our chopper over the scene. And whoever that woman was, she wasn`t visible --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is right there in front of his vehicle. There she is right in front of his vehicle. She looks like she`s dressed for, you know, a gala -- odd outfit to be wearing in a hot Florida sun. But I think it`s interesting because I wonder if even though they separated less than a month ago whether this woman is somehow, I don`t know, a love interest of George Zimmerman?
This is what I`m wondering because you know that there are woman who are very attracted to men who have been in the news. We know this for a fact from so many cases we`ve covered.
Eric stand by for a second. I want to go out to the phone lines. Charlene, Texas -- Charlene, your question or thought.
CHARLENE, TEXAS (via telephone): Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CHARLENE: Hi Jane. I want you to know that I am outraged. I mean outraged tonight for Mike O`Mara and Frank to say that it`s about pots and pans. Let me remind you, your panel and viewers. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women die every year from being set on fire, strangled, cut and shot because of domestic abuse. This is nothing to take lightly.
I think that we came -- we had come along from O.J. Simpson. But I see we`re not making no progress in this area.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen, you make a very important point. And guess what, eight years ago George Zimmerman`s ex-fiancee Veronica filed a restraining order against George Zimmerman claiming that he had pushed her and hit her in the face during an argument and then he fought back and said "Well I want a restraining order against her, she was the aggressor."
But gosh, I want to go to Kelly Saindon. I mean this woman is making an important point. This is alleged domestic violence but then she takes it right back and fails to file any criminal complaint.
KELLY SAINDON, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, the thing about it is your previous guest mentioned it. If she said on her 911 call that there was a witness that saw most of this, the police don`t need her to sign a complaint. So they can use an independent witness to verify and press charges.
Right now I believe that your reporter, Jay, said that they`re working on that. I think they`re so scared of the assessment that the police department went through with the Zimmerman trial that they`re going to make sure that they dot their i`s and cross their t`s. I don`t think this is going away, yet. I really don`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Yes, a city worker saw all of it or most of it according to Shellie. If that`s true could he still possibly be charged down the line?
Stay right there. We`ve got lots more. Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he look hurt to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t see him. I don`t want to go out there. I don`t know what`s going on. They`re sending --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you think he`s yelling "help"?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What is your --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day, send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Dexter -- party animal. I love you. Let`s go hang soon. Cliffy -- well, you`re climbing those stairs like it`s a cliffie. And Nellie -- she says "I`m a party girl but I like to hang in the grass." Now Buster says, "Well, these of my wheels. Come ride with me."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And breaking news. We`ve just gotten word from WKMG. There could be surveillance tape at the house. Therefore, there could be surveillance tape of the entire incident. Let`s round robin it. J. Wyndal Gordon, briefly, what do you think will happen next?
J. WYNDAL GORDON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it sounds like this case is not really going to go very far. In fact, when I was listening to what everyone else had to say, it`s almost seems as if there will be some -- you know Zimmerman has a knack for blaming the victims to make it seem like it`s a mutual fray, so that both charges would cancel each other`s out and that the case will go nowhere because no one`s going to testify against the other person. It sounds like that could probably happen in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think will happen next, Tanya Young- Williams?
YOUNG-WILLIAMS: Jane, it`s important because of my stance with domestic violence that I say, as your call did, this is a very, very big deal. Domestic violence kills, and I hope Shellie Zimmerman goes back and thinks about what happened, is helpful to police. And if in fact charges need to be brought, she needs to bring charges, not just for herself but to empower other women not to be bullied and pushed around by the likes of George Zimmerman in their lives. This is a serious, serious issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me just say this, fantastic panel, Shellie Zimmerman`s attorney has spoken. You will hear more of that in the coming hour. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Psychologist Wendy Walsh -- 20 seconds.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: George Zimmerman has so much trouble, Jane, managing his feelings. He needs to use police, lawyers and, of course, his gun. On top of that, think of his added celebrity. He`s got gun lovers sending him in money from around the country, hot women thinking he`s cool because he`s on TV. This is a man out of control and this is not over yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you.
Nancy Grace is up next.
END
