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Cuts Put Lives at Risk; Gunman's Weapons; Getting Around Building 197; Lawmakers Question Security Procedures; Police Hunting for Gunman's Motive

Aired September 17, 2013 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello, along with John Berman. Welcome back to this special edition of NEWSROOM from the U.S. Navy Yard. We're talking a lot about what happened here yesterday, the tragic events. And one of the questions being raised about yesterday's shooting rampage, did government cuts put security at risk? D.C.'s mayor, Vincent Gray, addressed that issue head on in an interview with CNN's "NEW DAY" anchor Chris Cuomo. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR VINCENT GRAY (D), WASHINGTON: We'll continue with this investigation. But certainly, as I look at, for example, sequestration, which is about saving money in the federal government being spent, have we somehow skimped, you know, on what would be available for projects like this and then we put people at risk? You know, obviously, 12 people have paid the ultimate price.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I'm joined now by D.C. councilman at large, Vincent Orange.

Thank you so much for being with me I really appreciate it.

VINCENT ORANGE (D), DC CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: OK, so you heard what the mayor said. He said security might have been a little lax because of - because of cost cuts due to sequestration. You represent all the people in this great city. Have you heard that from them?

ORANGE: I have not heard that from them. That may have been a factor, but it appears as though Mr. Alexis had the proper identification to enter the Navy Yard. And I think we may have to, at some point, re- examine, you know, the protocol that was in place at the Navy Yard, but he -

COSTELLO: You've been in there a million times, right?

ORANGE: I've been there for a number of cases.

COSTELLO: So how do you get in?

ORANGE: I come to the checkpoint and I give them my name. They may check a list. They say, actually, can I see your I.D. I give them the I.D. and you enter. This is one of the facilities where they really don't have vehicle checks. They don't check the vehicles, under (ph) cars. Basically if your name is on the list, or you show your I.D., you're into the facility.

COSTELLO: Well, it's a tricky thing, you know, how much security you actually should provide because a lot of civilian workers worked at the Navy Yard, right? So they come in every day. They're very familiar to all the security guard around. And I'm sure this guy was, too, this shooter, right? I mean he wasn't in there every day, but he was well known to them. So what do you do to employees who come to work every day? Do you put them through a metal detector? Do you check their bags? And wouldn't some of them be upset about that?

ORANGE: Well, I think you have to, you know, error on the side of safety. And so I think that we need to increase the safety of procedures. And in this particular case, we have to examine any bags because you never know what's going on. How can an individual like Mr. Alexis have a clearance when you now, if you examine his background, you look at all the run-ins he's had with the law, how was he able to just freely get in on that facility?

But I do want to, you know, applaud our first responders for getting there within a couple of minutes of a call. It seems like they took Mr. Alexis out before 8:30 am. And so things calmed down. And then they started doing their due diligence to see, were there other individuals involved in this tragedy that occurred.

COSTELLO: So is there anything you can do, as a city government official, to improve security, to change things, to force new requirements?

ORANGE: Oh, absolutely. I think everything is under review. I'm sure inside the D.C. government itself that we're going to have to review our safety procedures, how you enter city hall, because we have people flash their badge and you go walk in. So we have to examine all of this.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Councilman Orange, for being with me this morning. I really appreciate it.

ORANGE: Thank you so much. You too. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Councilman Vincent Orange.

And stay with us in the NEWSROOM because we're learning new information about the weapons used in yesterday's shooting. Pamela Brown will have all the new details for you after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back. We're getting new information about the weapons used in yesterday's shooting.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Pamela Brown is joining us right now.

Pamela, you've been reporting on this all along and there's been a great deal of confusion about what the gunman had or did not have with him. Bring us up to speed on the evolution of where things are.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there still is confusion. I mean right now as we speak, evidence response teams are processing the scenes, looking through the shell casings, trying to figure out what weapons were used in the shooting and what kind of weapons they were.

Now, initially, there were reports that the gunman was armed with an AR-15. We're hearing from sources that now there's question about whether he was armed with an AR-15 and whether there was one even at the scene of this shooting. It's believed now that the suspect walked in with a shotgun and there were also two pistols that were recovered. Right now authorities are trying to figure out whether the pistols belonged to armed guards at the building or whether the gunman somehow acquired the pistols during the - after he walked into the building. So, still some confusion there. Still trying to sort that out.

COSTELLO: But (INAUDIBLE) initial reports that there was an AR-15 found at the scene or seen being used by the gunman, where did that come from?

BROWN: You know, right now, as you can imagine, it was very chaotic. There was even reports that there could be three gunmen. I mean so it is fluid. And as information comes out, we're learning more. We did know - we did find out from a law enforcement source that the gunman rented and then returned an AR-15 before the shooting happened. We believe this happened at a gun range. So perhaps that could play a roll into this.

BERMAN: And they've been in there all night, overnight, looking at the shell casings, as you said. Another thing they're no doubt doing is going through the videotape, not just of yesterday, but in the day before, to figure out if those handguns he had on him, did he get them in the heat of the moment yesterday or was it something that possibly he left in there in the days before? We don't know. The day before, the video will be just as key as looking at yesterday, I imagine.

BROWN: Oh, absolutely. I mean this is - this is going to be a slow, methodical process for these investigators as they try to piece this together. It could take days before we really have a clear picture.

BERMAN: Right.

COSTELLO: Pamela Brown, thanks so much.

BERMAN: All right, and as we're piecing together what he had on him once he got in the building, there are so many questions about how he got in there at all. He did have an updated security clearance. He had that because he was a military subcontractor working on the I.T. systems in here. He was cleared to go into this facility before he went in yesterday and killed 12 people. So, should that have happened at all? Should there have been more oversight? Greg Rinckey is a former attorney for the Army Judge Advocate General's office.

Greg, thanks so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

GREG RINCKEY, MILITARY LAWYER: My pleasure. BERMAN: One of the things I'm really hoping you can clear up for us is this. We have learned this morning that this man was honorably discharged from the Navy Reserves. Honorably discharged. However, the Navy is telling us, at the same time, there was a pattern of misconduct. Some of those incidents of misconduct that we suspect over the last few years include these arrests for incidents that involved guns. So how can you be honorably discharged with a pattern of misconduct?

RINCKEY: Well, patterns of misconduct is an administrative discharge. It does not automatically result in a bad conduct discharge or a -- other than honorable discharge. So it is very possible to be discharged -- most people with patterns of misconduct are discharged usually with an other than honorable discharge or a general discharge. So I think we need to dig a little bit further into this to see if it was a general under honorable conditions discharge or a full honorable discharge.

BERMAN: You know, so not impossible it was honorable, just unusual. Certainly one of the things that needs to be cleared up as the days go on.

Another thing that needs a great deal of clarity is how do you get the security clearance with the pattern of misconduct that we've been discussing? You've worked in and around military installations like this. Are you familiar at all with these security procedures and how easily or not easily this clearance might be granted?

RINCKEY: Yes, absolutely. One of the tough questions in this case is going to be, how did Mr. Alexis -- how did he - how did he receive a security clearance? If he was administratively discharged from the Navy with -- for patterns of misconduct, and it appear that some of that misconduct involved allegations of a firearm, also appears that he may have had some mental health issues that he was undergoing treatment for, how did he get a security clearance? I think that bears, you know, close scrutiny.

BERMAN: You've worked in the Army Judge Advocate's General's office. This, of course, is a Naval facility. Nevertheless, you've gone in and out of military installations like this, no doubt, countless times. How tight have the security procedures been? And in your experience, how difficult would it be for a man like this to get past the front door with a weapon?

RINCKEY: Well, unfortunately, it's not very tough for someone who has security credentials, has the credentials to go on and off the base. And Mr. Alexis had valid credentials. I think what really bears some scrutiny here is, should there be random checks of vehicles that are going on and off the base, even if they have valid I.D.? I know after 9/11, security was a lot tighter on most military posts and they were randomly inspecting vehicles even with security credentials.

BERMAN: You mentioned 9/11. What about after Ft. Hood? One of the things we've talked a lot about on TV is the Ft. Hood massacre. After that happened in Texas, should that have been a red flag that tightened security procedures all around military installations? RINCKEY: Well, I think the Ft. Hood shooting was clearly an indicator that we need to look at mental health screening of our service members and if there is issues, that they bear closer scrutiny. It's a tough balancing act because of the number of people that go on and off these military bases. After 9/11, I was stationed out of Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri and it would routinely take an hour to get on the base because of the tight security. So it's really a balancing act of how much security can we have in order to be productive to get on and off the base.

BERMAN: And what is the cost and were costs cut in trying to save some money despite the security needs of places like this?

Greg Rinckey, thanks so much for being with us. Obviously so many more questions we need answers to as the day continues. Appreciate it.

Carol.

COSTELLO: And, John, as you said, investigators are combing through building 197 right now, trying to piece together, well, evidence as to exactly what went down yesterday.

I'm going to talk to our CNN security analyst Mike Brooks, he's been with the Metropolitan Police Department -- at least he was for 26 years. He's been talking to the investigators inside Building 197. He'll bring us up-to-date when we come back in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As I told you before the break, investigators are combing through Building 197 still looking for evidence. Our HLN law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks has been communicating with them this morning and he joins me now. So sort of walk us through what exactly is going on at the Navy Yard right now.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well after they had removed all the bodies yesterday, they -- even before that, the FBI's evidence response team at the Washington Field office, in fact I used to be a team leader with one of their rapid deployment teams. They're in there, working it and processing the scene.

Now they've also, Carol, brought up the FBI shooting reconstruction teams from the FBI lab in Quantico to assist the agents with the evidence response team. So they're going to be there. The assistant director said it could be maybe a day or two. Because they're going to map out the whole scene and build this case. Even though the shooter is dead, they still have to go ahead and find out exactly what happened, what his movements were as he came into the building and you know where all of the victims were -- just basically mapping everything out.

COSTELLO: Then, of course, law enforcement is also trying to figure out a motive. In fact the FBI sent out this message to the entire country, like if you know anything about this guy, please tell us because we still don't know why he did this. BROOKS: Well they want his movements even before he came to DC because we know he's been in New York, he's been in Texas state, Georgia, where he had a disorderly conduct charge back in 2008. So I encourage all of our viewers to go to FBI.gov. Take a look at his picture.

If you think at all you've seen this guy any time and even if you say well, I'm not sure, call 1-800-CALL-FBI. They want to hear from you even if you're not sure if you thought you see him. If you think you did, give them a call.

COSTELLO: I know you have a little more information because Aaron Alexis was staying in a hotel with other subcontractors.

BROOKS: Right.

COSTELLO: I know police have questioned at least some of those subcontractors but they're still looking for one more.

BROOKS: Yes you know they're looking for anybody. That one particular person, but he was staying at the Residence Inn over on E Street southwest, about a five-minute drive from here Carol. And we know that the FBI was there, they did remove some things, most likely of evidentiary value. They took some boxes out of there.

But one of the other things they're going to look at the surveillance video in and around that hotel. Was he there by himself? Were there other people that he was maybe meeting over the last month or so when he was staying here and what his actions were yesterday morning? They want to know exactly who he saw, what he did, what he ate. They want to know everything that led up to that shooting yesterday.

COSTELLO: Ok and before you go, I know that you talked to the police officer who was shot across the knees in yesterday incident. Just -- how did he sound?

BROOKS: Yes well one of my sources talked to him. And he told me that he had just talked to him. He was in good spirits. The surgery went apparently well because you know he took a high-powered round through both legs. So we heard the doctor yesterday at the Washington Hospital MedStar (ph) units say there were bones, vessels involved. But it looks like he's going to make a good recovery.

But you know he was one of the initial officers who went in with that active shooter team and confronted him initially when they have it. They were checking a room on the third floor. And that's when he apparently popped up, fired three rounds at the officer one of them, one of the rounds at least one of the rounds struck him in the legs. But he is doing well. His family is with him. His friends are around him up at MedStar Unit. And I know, having been a member of the Metropolitan Police Department for 26 proud years, I'm sure he's going to do well. And he's surrounded by friends. That's the important thing.

COSTELLO: That is the important thing. Thank you very much. Mike Brooks. I appreciate it. BROOKS: Thanks Carol, absolutely.

COSTELLO: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We'll get back to our coverage of the shootings here at the Washington Navy Yard shortly. But let's check in on some other stories making news this morning.

When it comes to the U.S./Russian plan on getting the Assad regime to give up its chemical weapons, the devil really is in the details. At a news conference earlier today with his French counterpart Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov rejected any U.N. resolution authorizing force against Syria.

The U.S. and France want to keep the use of force as an option if Syria does not comply with weapons inspections in a timely fashion.

For the first time in a week, the sun dominates across Colorado. A welcome sight and as the weather improves many people are returning home to find nothing. Hundreds of other people still unaccounted for. The floodwaters in Colorado are slowly receding, but some of the runoff is heading toward Nebraska and could flood some towns there.

Time-lapse video shows how a salvage crew righted the "Costa Concordia" earlier today off the Italian coast. That cruise liner ran aground some 20 months ago, killing 32 people on board. Remains of two of the victims are believed to be inside or near that ship.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning and welcome from the U.S. Navy Yard in Washington, D.C. I'm Carol Costello.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman. This hour we'll walk you through the latest details to emerge from the deadly rampage here and the questions that everyone wants answered. How did a man with a violent past get security clearance into such a sensitive military site?

COSTELLO: Right now the Secretary of Defense is honoring the victims of the Navy shooting Yard (SIC) and in just a few minutes we'll see a live picture here. You see Chuck Hagel and senior members of the military, they're taking part in this wreath-laying ceremony at the Navy Memorial Plaza, just blocks from where those 12 victims were shot and killed on Monday.

Let's listen.

All right. The wreath-laying hasn't quite started yet, but I want a bit more of an explanation so let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, tell us exactly who's taking part and what we're going to see. BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to both of you. This is the Navy Memorial downtown. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, the secretary of the Navy, the chief of naval operations will all gather as Secretary Hagel lays a wreath.