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Obama Stymied on Gun Control Despite Tragedies; Mental Health Stigma in Black Community; Washington Nationals Play Ball Again; Denise Robinson Tells Navy Yard Shooting Survival Story; Colorado Starts to Dig Out from Storm Flooding
Aired September 17, 2013 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly not the first time of his four years in office, 4.5 years, we should say, that President Obama has found himself confronted by an episode of gun violence.
Let's talk about that with Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst.
It seems almost every few months he's got to do this comforter in chief. He's got to go out there to a memorial service and speak about this, including the whole issues of guns.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
And when you heard the president speak yesterday, Wolf, he sounded sort of exhausted by it, tried by it. He's very familiar with these kinds of episodes, too many, Fort Hood, Gabby Giffords, Aurora, Colorado, and, of course, Newtown.
And I think what he's really frustrated by is that he hasn't been able to gain any traction on the gun control agenda. After Newton, he put it at the top of his agenda. There was a vote in Congress which he lost some Democrats, including a majority of Republicans.
And I think there's a lot of sense now on Capitol Hill that if Newtown didn't do it for gun control, that this -- that there may not be any reason to bring it back up because it wouldn't pass.
BLITZER: Yeah, I think in the Senate, what, they needed 60 to break a filibuster. They wound up with 55 or 54.
But it would have been an even bigger struggle in the House of Representatives to get the 217 or 218 you need there.
BORGER: And our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash spoke with Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who is one of the real proponents of gun control, and his point was to her, look, we just -- you know, why bring it back up if we're not going to succeed?
BLITZER: He's certainly not the first president who's found his agenda sort of upended by events beyond his control.
BORGER: Right. And, of course, this isn't exactly the way his president and advisers would have envisioned his second term.
They didn't expect Benghazi, the NSA surveillance issue, the drone controversy, of course, chemical weapons being used in Syria.
Now they're going to face this potential government shutdown. They wanted to talk about immigration and tax reform and so far they really haven't been able to do that, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yeah. Not yet. We'll see what happens. Gloria will be back later in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Thanks very much.
BORGER: Sure.
BLITZER: Up next, mental health and race, how this gunman has some in the African-American community saying it's time to take a more serious look at the issue.
One of those people, CNN's Don Lemon, he's standing by to join us live. You're going to want to hear what don has to say. He's got some pretty provocative thoughts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just briefly describe what you heard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just gunshots, multiple gunshots and someone yelled "gun" and we ran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody ran?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody ran.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're still running.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Friends of Aaron Alexis say Monday's deadly shooting rampage was out of character. They consistently describe him as warm and friendly, someone who practiced meditation and traveled to Thailand.
That doesn't square with other information we're now learned. Alexis had at least three run-ins with police over the past 10 years, including a 2004 incident in which he shot out somebody's tires.
According to his father, Alexis suffering from PTSD related to his involvement in rescue efforts at Ground Zero on 9/11. There are some reports he recently sought help on mental health issues at two V.A. hospitals.
Forensic psychologist J. Von Ornsteiner is joining us from New York. Also joining us CNN anchor Don Lemon, who's a contributor to the Tom Joyner Morning Show as well.
And, Don, you write a provocative article entitled "Face of a Killer -- Why the Black Community Must Take a Serious Look at Mental Health."
You say it's a taboo topic among a lot of African-Americans. Explain your experience and why you've come this conclusion.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Let me say that I think it's a taboo topic, Wolf, among everyone in America, but my work that I do at the Tom Joyner Morning Show for BlackAmericaWeb.com is specifically focused on African-Americans.
And I say that because, as a person of color, I have had to deal with the same thing. Just as a personal example, a few years ago when I was having some issues around depression, I told my own mother that I was seeing a therapist, and she said, you don't need to see a therapist. What you need to do is see a preacher.
And my experience is no different than many other African-Americans in the country. They feel that there is a stigma when it comes to that, and it is something that you can pray away.
And I'm not just saying that. It's the American Psychiatric Association, the research says that as well.
It is the Health and Human Services Office of Minority Health that will tell you as well that the incidences of suicide because of depression and mental illness among African-Americans, especially African-American men, are higher than the general population and they are climbing.
BLITZER: How do we fix this, Don?
LEMON: Diagnosis, proper diagnosis, access to health care, getting rid of the stigma, and one interesting thing I read which I thought was very provocative and informing was from the American Psychiatric Association.
It says that, while African-Americans have overcome many things, slavery and what have you, we underestimate the impact of mental disorders in our communities.
And this is a quote. "Many believe symptoms of mental health such as depression are just the blues.
"Issues of distrust" -- and this is answering your question -- "distrust in the health care system and mental health stigma frequently lead African-Americans to initially seek mental health support from nonmedical sources."
And what is a better thing to do is have a comprehensive way of treating yourself, seeking it from a mental health professional and also going to your preacher or church organization and praying as well.
BLITZER: And having your family help you, that's obviously very important and letting them support you in this effort to try to deal with some of these issues.
Let me let Dr. Ornsteiner weigh in. Based on everything you've heard so far, Doctor, I assume you will agree that the shooter had some serious mental health issues. JOEL VON ORNSTEINER, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, from what everything that has been reported, it's my understanding that he certainly had, aside from anger management issues, he had limited coping skills.
There's certainly a history of using a gun rather than try to use good negotiation skills, the shooting of the car wheels because someone, unfortunately, chose to park in front of his house.
The situation where he used a gun because the music was too loud upstairs, another tenant was playing some music. I understand that he used a gun and fired it.
This shows a person who, really, their perception is skewed. And they lack the resources or the support to form a therapeutic alliance with a therapist or to admit fully that they had significant mental health issues.
BLITZER: Dr. Von Ornsteiner, thanks very much.
Don Lemon, you've done a real service by writing this article. Thanks to you as well, Dr. Von Ornsteiner and Don Lemon.
Sports certainly could be a way to bring people together, especially after a national tragedy.
Today a baseball game right here in Washington, D.C., only a few blocks away from the shooting site, has a very special meaning to the players and the fans.
We're going there. You'll see what happened. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage of the Navy Yard shooting. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
The Washington Nationals and Atlanta Braves are playing baseball right now. Yesterday's game was postponed due to the shootings at the navy yard, which is literally just a few blocks away from the ballpark, Washington Nationals Park.
Today's game began with a moment of silence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Moment of silence)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Our Rene Marsh is joining us from Nationals Park. Rene, what's it like? What's the feeling over there at the ballpark?
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Wolf, I had a chance to speak to some people who were showing up for the game, and they're not just thinking about baseball, but they're thinking about those victims as well. You mentioned just how close we are to the shooting there. Really, we are close. You can walk it from where that all happened.
This is where the buses were dropping off all of those navy employees yesterday so they could reunite with family and friends.
Take a look. You see some fans walking in and out of the gates now. The game is underway, a game that had to be postponed yesterday.
In addition to that moment of silence, we know that the players, they are wearing special uniforms, patriotic uniforms, and also the flags here are at half staff simply to honor the victims, those 12 lives that were lost.
We spoke to some people who were here showing up for the game. Again, it was so clear that their minds were not just on baseball but on those victims. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm definitely thinking about them. I feel bad for them, sorry for them and everything. It's just a tragedy for it to even happen at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I also feel sorry for the shooter. You know, you have terrorist acts that continue going on in our own country. It's just going to be sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARSH: All right. Well, with that moment of silence, definitely an emotionally heavy start to the game here.
However, most of the people I spoke to here today say that is exactly the way this game needed to start today.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Yes, literally only a few blocks away from the Navy Yard.
Thanks, Rene, Rene Marsh reporting.
Coming up, CNN's Ashleigh Banfield has just spoke within a man who not only worked at the Navy Yard for decades, but the shooter actually fired shots into her office.
You're going to hear her emotional story of survival. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of the investigation into the shooting at the Navy Yard here in Washington.
Just moments ago CNN's Ashleigh Banfield spoke with a survivor who has an emotional story. Ashleigh, tell us about this woman, what she went through. ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, "LEGAL VIEW": So, Wolf, I just came back from Denise Robinson's house.
She lives about a half an hour from here, but she works right here in Building 197. She recounted what it was like inside the moment all of this began.
She started to hear shots being fired, her supervisor stood up, and then she takes it from there. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENISE ROBINSON, WITNESS: The gunman was coming forward to the corridor just next to her office, and she closed the door. So my coworker, she said, oh, he has a gun and she ran.
So I ran behind her. Then he shot at the glass at the cubicle. We just hid under the table, under the desk for about an hour before we got any respondents to come and check on us.
BANFIELD: Did you ever get a look at him?
ROBINSON: I saw the top part of his face, his eyes. It was like a cold look, just dazed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Wolf, I asked her what she saw other than the top part of his head.
She said she did not see a weapon. She saw a very cold, blank stare. He was very methodical, slow and quiet, never said a word.
She also said he was wearing what looked like a tight black T-shirt.
Then I asked her about where most of the victims were, and this was something, forgive me if you've heard this but I had not heard this before.
She said that most of the victims were across from where she was in the I.T. area. And we all know this is where he was contracted to be working, within I.T.
She also said there was a woman who was shot, a woman that she knows, just within feet of her. She thinks that she might have been warming up her breakfast or getting her coffee in the kitchen area not far from her desk.
That hour that she spent under her desk, she could hear that shooter within feet shooting over into the atrium. She had no idea how many people were being shot.
This is another thing she recounted for me. The police swept through, calling for people to come out. She didn't believe it was the police. She stayed hidden. She stayed quiet. Twenty minutes later, a second sweep of police came and that's when she said she peeked her head out. The police yelled, a civilian, a civilian, put your hands up, put your hands up.
She said they then told her in a yelling voice to run, follow that officer out of the building into one of three different holding places.
And she said she never felt safe until she ended up in the parkade later that day where they were reuniting families.
Just a harrowing ordeal of a woman who is a management analyst of work force development, civilian worker inside that building.
BANFIELD: And had worked there for so many years.
Ashleigh, thanks so much for sharing that story with our viewers.
We'll have more news from Washington in just a moment, but we want to update you on a massive rescue and recovery effort under way across Colorado right now, where flooding has killed at least eight people.
Hundreds are still unaccounted for. Up to 1,000 people are still waiting to be evacuated.
And as the weather finally improves, many who made it away from the devastating flood waters are now returning to nothing.
Kyung Lah has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABE VASQUEZ, LYONS RESIDENT: The water was this high that day. And here's what's left of our apartment.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, my god. Oh, my god.
What else can you say? Two feet of thick mud and sewage covering this entire home in Lyons, Colorado, a town pummeled with pounding rain and flood waters for days.
VASQUEZ: That's her walker, and that's the other one.
LAH: This is where Abe Vasquez's 78-year-old mother barely escaped from.
We stepped, or tried to step, through the living room, our feet slowly sinking as we spoke.
Do you understand standing here how people could have lost their lives?
VASQUEZ: Oh, yes. Easily. Thank God it didn't happen, but it could have.
LAH: Is it hard looking at your mom's house? VASQUEZ: Yeah, it is. Very hard.
LAH: The water, just beginning to recede, reveals the extent of damage to Vasquez's property, cars stuck in debris, what was pavement leading to his business, gone.
How many years did it take to build this place?
VASQUEZ: Since '79.
LAH: And in 24 hours --
VASQUEZ: It's gone. It's hard.
LAH: By ATV, the only way to travel now, Vasquez wanted to show us the rest of his town where many residents have yet to be able to return, dotted with snapped power poles, roadblocks and heavy machinery, people walking where cars fail them, rescuers and the National Guard more visible than the evacuees who left here.
As the two branches of the St. Vrain River bisecting this town nearly swallowed it whole.
If you want to understand the force of the water, this used to be a roadway. A bridge went right over. Take a look at where the bridge is now. Right over there, there's the black bridge covered with trees, those houses in between, all flooded.
And take a look at that. That's a car completely flipped over.
In this neighborhood, explains Vasquez, the flood pushed entire houses around like furniture.
As we talk, Kelly Hunt walks up. She can see the roof of her home, but can't get to the other side of the river.
Are you saying your house was picked up and moved?
KELLY HUNT, LYONS RESIDENT: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Our house has been picked up and moved several feet.
Today is our first day up here since we've been evacuated, and I feel like it's worse than I thought it would be. We lost absolutely everything we own.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Kyung Lah, reporting for us from Colorado.
Up next, the Pastor Rick Warren reacts to the shooting here in Washington. Also, he opens up about the death of his son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK WARREN, PASTOR: It's a day no parent wants. It's your worst nightmare. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He spoke exclusively to Piers Morgan about his son's suicide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our special coverage of the Navy Yard shooting here in Washington continues later tonight.
Here's a look at CNN's primetime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN tonight, at 8:00 on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," the shooting rampage at the Navy Yard in Washington, D.C., Anderson Cooper is there, live, with the latest on the investigation.
And at 9:00 on "PIERS MORGAN LIVE," a test of faith for the man known as "America's pastor," Piers talks exclusively with Rick Warren and his wife, their first interview since their son's suicide, and about what he did when he heard about the Navy Yard shootings in Washington.
RICK WARREN, PASTOR: The first thing I did is get down on my knees and pray for those families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all on CNN tonight, starting with "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" at 7:00, "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at 8:00, and "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" at 9:00, tonight on CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We have more on that exclusive interview with Pastor Rick Warren. You'll hear more about his reaction to the deadly shootings here in Washington, D.C.
Plus, he opens up about the death of his son. Matthew committed suicide last April inside the family's Southern California home.
The 27-year-old told his parents he wasn't going to get better, so he would rather die. He had suffered from years of depression and mental illness.
When talking about his son's death, Pastor Warren expressed how hard it is to endure such a loss in the public eye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: Without a doubt, the most difficult kind of funeral is the death of a child because parents aren't supposed to outlast their children.
And then on top of that is a suicide. The feeling is, why?
Now, I'm doing the death of a child funeral, the death of my child's funeral. The death of my child's funeral as a suicide, and then as you said, as a well-known person, everybody knows.
It's on the CNN ticker and it's on everywhere else, and that's difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: This is a really heartbreaking interview, but also inspirational. I recommend you watch the full exclusive interview later tonight on "PIERS MORGAN LIVE."
That begins 9:00 p.m. Eastern only, only here on CNN, the full interview with Pastor Rick Warren.
I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern, an hour from now, in "THE SITUATION ROOM." We'll have much more on the continuing investigation into the Navy Yard shooting. The mayor of Washington, D.C., the Mayor Vincent Gray, will be among my guests.
Also, I'll speak with a top U.S. Navy commander, a spokesman, on what the lessons are that need to be learned.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper begins right now.
