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Stocks Pause After Record Run; Navy Yard Employees Return to Work; House Prepares for Spending Vote; GOP Versus GOP Over Obama Care Fight; Nerves on Edge as Shutdown Looms; Checking the Big Board; McCain Blasts Putin in New Op-Ed; Iran's New Leader Interviewed; Pope's Comments

Aired September 19, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now the clock is ticking as we head toward a political showdown in Washington and a possible government shutdown. We'll tell you what's at stake, what it means for your finances.

Also, right now stocks are taking a bit of a breather, but they're coming off new all-time highs. We'll check the markets. This might be a good time for you to check your 401(k) statement.

And also right now, employees at the Washington Navy Yard, they are back at work. The building where Monday's shooting took place is still shut down. We're learning more about the horror inside.

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. We're -- we are now only 11 days away from a possible government shutdown. For Republicans, the fight over funding the government comes down to one issue, the affordable care act or Obama care, as it's known. They want to defund it or at least delay it as part of any deal. Just a little while ago, we heard this from the speaker of the House, John Boehner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: Obama care is driving up the cost of health care. It's destroying millions of American jobs. It is a train wreck. It has to go. We're -- we've done everything humanly possible for the last two and a half years to make our point and we'll continue to make our point.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: And their my way or the highway approach has carried the day. In this case, the highway leads over a cliff to a shutdown or a default either of which would be devastating for the economy. Republican leadership has been dragged kicking and screaming into a fight that they know is bad for their party and bad for their country. And they should know, it's a fight they will not win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: There's another fight brewing right now, a fight within the Republican Party itself. Republican Congressman Tim Griffin, for example, fired this shot over the bow of the Senate Republican counterparts, quoting, "So far, Senate Republicans are good at getting Facebook likes and town halls, not much else. Do something." John Boehner says he'll put the vote on the floor of the House of Representatives tomorrow, then it will head to the Senate where it will be a very, very different story. The Democrat-controlled Senate is expected to kick it back to the House without the Obama care provision that is the defunding of Obama care.

And that sets up another fight in the House of Representatives. Not this weekend, but the following weekend. As Boehner himself said, all of this has to play out within the next 11 days before the government shuts down. No more money for most of the federal government by October 1st, the start of the new fiscal year.

So, that's where we stand in the legislation but things are very complicated by the infighting going on right now within the Republican Party.

Let's bring in our Chief Legal Analyst Gloria Borger. Gloria, a little bit more now from the House speaker, John Boehner, throwing down the gauntlet to his Senate counterparts. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOEHNER: Well, guess what? We're having a fight over here. We're going to win the fight over here. It's time for them to pick up the mantel and get the job done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And listen to this from a few of the top Democrats reacting to this Republican back and forth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN, D-ILLINOIS: They're being guided by a few members over there who are of a certain political faith that I can't even describe who believe that chaos is the best thing.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: I haven't said that he's lost control of his caucus. Maybe he's in full control of his caucus. I don't know if he's a reflection of the caucus or they're a reflection of him but let's just say, I wish the speaker well.

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: It would be good political theater to watch them self-destruct and that's what they are doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: All this comes after House Republicans openly criticized their Senate counterparts for seemingly giving up on the Obama care funding fight. So, what's go on here, Gloria? Why are so many Republicans on the House side so angry at their counterparts in the Senate?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, first of all, Wolf, it's complete chaos on the Republican side. House Republicans are -- laid down the gauntlet and said, OK, we're going to be against Obama care. We're going to tie it to everything. We want to defund it.

By the way, that's not where the House speaker was, as you well know, but he acceded to the wishes of his caucus. And then, they feel like they -- the rug has been pulled out from under them by the conservatives in the Senate who said, oh, by the way, we won't be able to pass that over here, so glad you guys are putting up a good fight.

You know, in the meantime, Wolf, there are a lot of Republicans, Karl Rove among them, who say, you know what? This is a fruitless fight. We don't know where it goes. And, by the way, we're going to lose all of the independent voters who have started acting like Republicans because we're acting foolish and in a self-destructive manner because you're never going to end up defunding Obama care. You're going shut down the government, and people, in the end, are going to blame you.

BLITZER: It's not just Karl Rove writing in the "Wall Street Journal" today saying these are foolish steps by House Republicans. But listen to Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor, possible 2016 Republican presidential candidate. Listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: If you control one half or one third of the leverage in Washington, D.C., your building to influence things that are also relative to the fact that you have one half of one third of the government. That's a reality. It's not -- you know, this isn't a hypothetical. So, as we get closer to these deadlines, there needs to be an understanding of that or, politically, it's quite dicey for the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, how dicey is it for the Republicans, House Republicans particularly, Gloria?

BORGER: I think it's -- I think it's extraordinarily dicey even dangerous because, look, everybody knows they have been trying to repeal Obama care since it was enacted. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen in the Senate. So, they're laying down this gauntlet here, but it isn't going to go anywhere and everybody knows it.

In the meantime, what are you playing around with? You're playing around with shutting down the government. What does that mean? That means, for example, that military families will not get paid. Air traffic controllers will not get paid. And in the end, the American public, I would argue, would react negatively against that because these are services that matter to them.

BLITZER: Hundreds of thousands of federal workers would immediately --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- be furloughed without pay. All right, Gloria, we're going to continue this conversation. Thank you. As the politicians fight, many Americans, understandably, they are worried. They are worrying about what a government shutdown could be for them.

CNN's Christine Romans is here with some of the answers.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you know, many of the Congress members threatening a government shutdown, they're hoping to delay or defund Obama's affordable care act. But a report from the Congressional Research Service finds that even if the government shuts down, Obama care implementation would go ahead. Now, based on the last shutdown in 1995, here's how you would likely be affected by a shutdown. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers sent home without pay. Many, if not most, federal offices and government programs shut down.

During last shutdown, 200,000 passport applications went unprocessed, some services to veterans were suspended, the NAH stopped accepting patients for clinical research, national parks and museums closed, of course, and federal contractors who rely on the government to issue paperwork, they could see their projects delayed.

Now, parts of government that provide critical services would stay open, think air traffic control, food inspections, national security, border protection, maintenance of the power grid. Also open, anything considered essential to the banking system, the government would issue bonds and, yes, you would still need to do your taxes. The postal service will continue to deliver the mail and the government will pay out benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. Those benefits are considered mandatory. However, the government workers who process them could be affected though it's unlikely.

Now the president, his appointees, members of Congress, they would get their paychecks but many staff members would not. Now, furloughed workers, thought, have typically gotten back-pay after the government straightens everything out, starts back up again, but that's not guaranteed either -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, lots of unanswered questions. Christine, thank you.

Nothing certainly is guaranteed on Wall Street either. And after seeing some record numbers yesterday, stocks are a bit sluggish today. Right now, take a look. The Dow Jones industrials down about 40 points. Stocks jumped to record highs yesterday after the Federal Reserve announced it will not, not cut back the amount of cash it's pumping into mortgage and bond markets. The move is expected to keep mortgage rates low, at least for now.

Senator John McCain says the Russian people deserve better than Vladimir Putin. McCain is slamming the Russian leader in a new op-ed article he has just written in a Russian publication. We'll have excerpts from his scathing criticism. His message to the people of Russia, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Senator John McCain takes direct aim at the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in a scathing new opinion article. The Russian leader made headlines last week with his message to Americans in a "New York Times" op-ed article. On the news Web site, pravda.ru, McCain is firing right back. He tells Russians, their leadership has no regard for their rights. And I'm quoting now, "They don't respect your dignity or accept your authority over them. They punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media."

McCain also tries to tap into the protests in Russia, including the demonstrations over recent anti-gay legislation. He says, and I'm quoting, again, "They write the laws to codify bigotry against people whose sexual orientation they condemn. They throw the members of a punk rock band in jail for the crime of being provocative and vulgar and for having the audacity to protest President Putin's rule." When asked about the McCain article today, President Putin pointed to the 2000 president election where Al Gore got more popular votes than George Bush got but Bush won. And he also called it an example of the flaws of democracy.

Senator McCain also is criticizing Russia's close ties with Syria. Let's bring in the former California congresswoman, Jane Harmer. She is director, president, CEO of the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington. Jane, thanks very much for coming in. First of all, what you think about that rather blunt if not totally very, shall we say from a Russian perspective, brutal article that McCain wrote condemning Vladimir Putin?

JANE HARMAN, DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT, CEO, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: Kudos to John McCain, well deserved on Putin's part. I just wonder if that editor of pravda.ru which printed it is out of jail. I mean, the McCain slam was well deserved on Russia.

On Syria -- on Russia and Syria, I actually think president Obama, forget the process, is in a place where he has 79 percent of the Americans behind him, according to a recent poll, and that David Ignatius writing in today's "Washington Post" has got it right. There are four reasons why this policy is finally centered. First of all, the Russians own it. If chemical weapons are not dismantled, they're going to be blamed. And, oh, by the way, if chemical weapons get in the hands of the -- of the Islamists, which are a part of the rebel force, they're going to be aimed at Russia.

Number two, the U.N. is also taking ownership and some form of resolution will pass with the support of Russia and China, certainly stronger than we've had.

Number three, phase two is starting in Geneva. Phase two is what we need to get to which is a transitional government. This is what we need in Syria. And hopefully it also will mean that in the election in 2014, which is scheduled in 2014, Bashar will not be a candidate.

And number four, we are engaged in a covert action, I think it could be overt, to train the rebel -- the good rebel forces in Syria. So, all of that is -- BLITZER: So, you're basing --

HARMAN: -- a credit, I think, finally to the Obama administration.

BLITZER: So you're basic -- so you're with the president when it comes to his strategy on Syria.

HARMAN: Yes. Let's talk about Iran for a moment. There's a new president. Ahmadinejad is out. There's a new president, Hassan Rouhani. He gave an interview to NBC News. Let me play just a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT HASSAN ROUHANI, IRAN (through translator): We have never pursued or sought a nuclear bomb and we are not going to do so. We are solely seeking peaceful nuclear technology.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you say that Iran will not build a nuclear weapon under any circumstances whatsoever?

ROUHANI: The answer to this question is quite obvious. We have time and again said that under no circumstances would we seek any weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, nor will we ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Jane, do you believe him?

HARMAN: Well, the question is whether he speaks for Iran. We've long known that presidents of Iran are not the - are not the leading cleric in Iran and we'll have to see. He, too, is a cleric and he allegedly has a very close relationship. Next week is going to be fascinating. He's speaking at the U.N. on the same day that President Obama is. No formal meeting set, but I bet there will be informal conversations.

This is interesting, not just in terms of what Iran may do about pursuing a nuclear weapon, but there's also blowback on Syria. Iran, after all, was the victim of chemical attacks from Iraq in 1982 to 1986. A million Iranians were exposed, 100,000 got sick and 10,000 to 20,000 died. They know what chemical weapons do. And I hear, informally through Wilson Center contacts, that they're appalled by the actions of Bashar al Assad. So maybe they will also help push to a better solution, hopefully this second track solution, a transitional government in Syria. They obviously want Syria as a patron state, but it seems to me they don't want Syria's chemical weapons eking out of Syria, maybe even harming them, or destabilizing their role in the region.

BLITZER: President Obama will be speaking at the U.N. General Assembly next Tuesday. He'll be in New York. The new president of Iran, he'll be in New York. Let's see if they manage to get together, if they exchange a few words.

Jane Harman, as usual, thanks very much for joining us. Should be a fascinating week. By the way, I'll be anchoring our coverage next week from New York where the United Nations General Assembly begins.

This programing note. Jake Tapper speaks with Senator John McCain about his op-ed slamming, really slamming the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. Senator McCain, Jake's guest later today on "The Lead," 4:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Pope Francis opens up on a host of controversial issues. You're going to hear where he stands on homosexuality, women priest, and the fight against abortion. His comments might surprise you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Pope Francis is giving a remarkably candid interview, an account of where he stands on a whole range of very sensitive issues and his hope for the future of the Catholic Church. In this wide- ranging interview with a Jesuit magazine, the pope addresses several of these hot button issues including homosexuality. Pope Francis saying, and I'm quoting, "a person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question, tell me when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person or reject and condemn this person? We must always consider the person."

Joining us now from Washington, CNN senior producer, Eric Marrapodi. He's also the co-editor of CNN's Belief Blog.

Eric, so how do you interpret the pope's comments here on homosexuality? Because a lot of folks think he's becoming more inclusive shall we say.

ERIC MARRAPODI, CO-EDITOR, CNN.COM/BELIEF: Yes, he absolutely is becoming more inclusive, particularly in his language. It's important to note the church's teaching's not going to change here on this. The church, the Catholic Church, would still say that sex should be reserved between a married man and a woman. What he's saying here is that homosexuality, orientation, things like that, they're becoming much more open on this. They're becoming much more -- putting much more of the emphasis on loving the people, bringing people in, walking alongside them.

This was a follow-up on those blockbuster comments he made on the plane coming back from Brazil in July, the wide-ranging press conference there in the plane where he said, who am I to judge. And the question that he was responding to in this journal that was published in 16 countries and around the world at 11:00 a.m. this morning was following up on those comments where he expounded on that who am I to judge, really putting this issue to rest, that they are becoming more inclusive without a doubt and putting the emphasis on loving people as opposed to judging people. I think that's coming through very clearly in this article.

BLITZER: He also spoke about the role of women in the Catholic Church and he said -- he said the door is closed on women priests.

MARRAPODI: Yes. BLITZER: But then he went on to say this. And let's me read it to you. "The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions. Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed. The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role."

All right, so what do you think -- what did you think of this answer? Did it deviate from previous statements about the role of women in the Catholic Church?

MARRAPODI: Yes, in a sense, it did. I mean what the pope is - remember, in the prior papacy under Benedict, there were a lot of catholic women who felt like they were under attack, particularly when the Vatican went after a group of American nuns for this doctrinal assessment where they said the nuns had gone way off course. That did not sit well, particularly with American catholic women.

Now what you're seeing is this reaching out again to women. The women priest issue still seems to be off the table for the church and the pope even used the term female machismo. He worried about that becoming an issue, which was, I thought, an interesting turn of a phrase.

But I think this is going to be welcomed by women again, elevating their role in the church, saying they need to be much more a part of the big decisions and much more a part of how things work. So, again, that's another huge change coming out of this interview.

BLITZER: Yes. And he also spoke about abortion and other issues. We're going to have more on this part of the story later today, including in "The Situation Room."

Eric, thanks very much for coming in.

MARRAPODI: You got it, Wolf.

BLITZER: Eleven days and counting. Government workers are preparing for the worst, even want Congress spars over Obamacare. But it's not just Democrats versus Republicans. There's also some serious infighting inside the GOP. We'll talk to two members of Congress about that fight, a whole lot more. Whether we can avoid another government shutdown with all the ramifications.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're now only 11 days way from a possible federal government shutdown. Republicans have threatened to let the deadline come and go if they can't get the president to put Obamacare on the table and defund it or at least delay its implementation for a year. It seems odd that all Republicans on this issue are not on the same page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Let me just say that, you know, I've heard so much concern about Obamacare and I've supported repealing it. That's one of the reasons I ran for the United States Senate as you know in 2010. But I don't think that shutting down the government is going to be productive.

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: So the only effective way to truly stop Obamacare - and I think we ought to do it, to stop it -- would be totally reverse it. We don't have the votes to do that.

REP. SCOTT RIGELL (R), VIRGINIA: Someone asked me earlier on a radio show, they said, well, are you voting to shut the government down? I say, no, absolutely not.

REP. JOHN FLEMING (R), LOUISIANA: I think we're -- we're going to have enough adhesiveness among ourselves to stick together and, you know, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee have been asking for this fight. The conservative base have been asking for this fight. So we're going to give them the fight.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Nobody's talking about killing each other or doing those types of things. We're talking about fully funding the government. Nobody is talking -- nobody is talking about a government shutdown. What we're talking about is not funding Obamacare.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Listen, we've got a lot of divergent opinions in the caucus. And the key to any leadership job is to listen. You know, I was here during the Gingrich era. He had a little plaque that was in his office. And it was a management model, listen, learn, help, and lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, so as you just heard, the budget fight in Washington isn't just pitting Democrats against Republicans, Republicans against the president, it's also pitting Republicans against Republicans, this time in a very public fight.