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House Votes to Defund Obamacare; Another Mass Shooting in Chicago; Remembering Navy Yard Victim Sylvia Frasier; Should Obama Meet With Iran's President?; Syria Meets First Deadline on Chemical Weapons Pact; at Least 97 Dead, 68 Missing in Manuel's Wake; Jesse Jackson Jr. Auction Canceled; 850 Snakes Found in Suburban New York Home; White Supremacists Try to Take Over North Dakota Town

Aired September 20, 2013 - 20:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We just learned President Obama spoke to House Speaker John Boehner reiterating his pledge not to negotiate with him over the debt ceiling. According to a White House official, Mr. Obama told the speaker quote "that the full faith and credit of the United States should not and will not be subject to negotiations." He went on to say, according to a White House official quote "the last thing the nation's economy needs is another politically motivated self-inflicted wound."

Boehner's aid said the speaker was disappointed. Republicans, especially House Republicans want Obamacare delayed and in exchange for not forcing the government to default on its debt. That' not happen though and our "Keeping Them Honest" will report on what many Republicans and Democrats alike say is shaping up to be a colossal waste of time, effort, your money and possibly a lot more than that. The backdrop of the phone call between President Obama and Speaker Boehner was the House today passing a bill financing the government to stripping all money from Obamacare. The vote 230 to 189, almost totally along party lines.

A short time later, the House Republicans leader had held a victory rally.


BOEHNER: And so, our message to the United States is really simple. The American people don't want the government shut down and they don't want Obamacare.



COOPER: Well, the Democratic controlled Senate doesn't go along, the government runs out of money and shuts down. And if somehow Senate Democrats do vote to kill it, President Obama vetoes the bill and the government shuts down.

"Keeping Them Honest," the odds are the GOP lawmakers will be no like or to defund Obamacare on the 42nd trial than they were the other 41 times. You heard right, today was the 42nd time the House has voted to defund Obamacare, 42nd. Most Republicans know they are unlike to win this fight but are doing it anyhow. And if they don't know it, they are being reminded, not just by Democrats, but as I mentioned earlier, that by Republicans as well.


REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: We can't let the government be shut down. We can't become General Custer.

REP. LEE TERRY (R), NEBRASKA: Nobody really wants a shut down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut downs are bad. Shut downs are not worth it. This law is not worth causing a shutdown.

KING: It makes no sense because we know that it is not going to make it out of the Senate.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We will not repeal or defund Obamacare, we will not. And to think we can is not rational.


COOPER: Karl Rove calls this a bad move so does the U.S. chamber of commerce, so does fed chairman, a Republican appointee, Ben Bernanke and the director of the non-partisan congressional budget office.

According to (INAUDIBLE), non-partisan congressional research service, the last government shut down in '96, or excuse me, '95 cost the nation more than a billion dollars. Now, this isn't to say there's anything wrong with representing the interest of your constituents. Obamacare is indeed controversial. A number of people in the country obviously oppose is in its present form. But 42 times when a negative outcome is assured every time, that by any measure, is not time well spent and it is not like these same lawmakers don't have better things to do. In fact, they have said so themselves.


BOEHNER: Jobs continue to be our number one priority here in the Congress.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: The house Republicans have remain concentrated on job growth and better results for working families.

BOEHNER: Republicans have been focused on jobs. We are going to continue to be the focused on jobs.

Reforming our immigration system is an important project.

CANTOR: To increase jobs and lower costs for working families, that is what it's about. That is a priority for House Republicans.


COOPER: Well, the question is what have they actually accomplished? According to the tracking Web site,, they have gotten 36 pieces of legislation passed and signed so far this year. That's on track to be the lowest since, get this, the 1800s.

But the Congress had managed to do, though, is rack up numbers like this, 20 percent job approval.

Here to talk about it "CROSSFIRE" host and House Speaker during the last shut down showdown, 2012 presidential candidate Newt Gingrich and senior political analyst, David Gergen.

Mr. Speaker, we know the House billed defunding Obamacare will never make it to the Senate. Even if it did, be vetoed by the president. So, with this dead line looming, I mean, are we wasting precious time here?

NEWT GINGRICH, CNN HOST, CROSSFIRE: No. I think, you know, in the middle of a legislative process in which one part of the Congress is expressing its very, very deep and strong feelings that Obamacare is a disaster and is seeking to set up the stage for negotiations. And unfortunately, you have with Harry Reid in the Senate and the president, this attitude of do it our way or nothing. And you have no sense at all of the seriousness about negotiating even though today the president did indicate no side should expect to get 100 percent, which I thought might be the beginning of an opening towards a serious discussion.

COOPER: David, what's your take?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think they are wasting time, Anderson. They are playing with fire. And Newt is right, this could be the beginning of a serious negotiations. And I do believe Republicans are calling attention to issues that are serious.

But the way they are going about it and what they are promising is they are going to shut down the government, basically, if they don't get their way on Obamacare, I think, is irresponsible and be extremely irresponsible if we go into default over that kind of stubbornness, our way or the highway from the Republicans.

COOPER: Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to hear from folks in the GOP, Peter King, John McCain, Karl Rove, painting an op-ed in "the Wall Street Journal" and he wrote, the desire to strike in Obamacare is praiseworthy but any strategy repeal, delay, or replace the law must have a credible chance of succeeding or affecting broad public opinion positively. The defunding strategy doesn't. Going down that road would strengthen the president while alienating independents. Is political damage a concern here?

GINGRICH: No. I have no concern about political damage.

COOPER: You don't think it alienates independence?

GINGRICH: No. The election is 14 months away. Occasionally, we have -- everybody complains those politicians pay too much attention to polls. So, you are at a point now, you have 14 months. It's pretty healthy for the country to see a genuine disagreement.

President Clinton and I negotiated face to face for 35 days during a period of two government shut downs. So, there is nothing wrong with being tough but also being clever. And what we are starting, this is the beginning of a process, not the end of it.

COOPER: You mentioned you were the center of the last government shutdown in the '90s. Did that damage the Republicans? Because there is a lot of people in retrospect, say that damaged the Republican Party.

GINGRICH: Yes. They're just wrong. The fact is, the first re- elected Republican majority since 1928 occurred in 1996. Think about that. The first time in 68 years we got re-elected and people think it damaged us? What it did do was it proved we were serious people, determined to balance the budget. That summer after that we got welfare reform working with President Clinton. A year later, we got a balanced budget for four straight years working with President Clinton. And we got the first tax cuts in 17 years.

Look, it was a very messy process. And this is going be a very messy process.

COOPER: It is interesting, David. The latest CNN/ORC polls when asked if they would blame President Obama or Republicans for government shut down, over half said they would blame the GOP versus a third would blame Obama. Do you think it is going to hurt Republicans this time and do you think that it hurt, David, Republicans in the '90s?

GERGEN: I think the Republicans would very likely recapture the house in 2014 even if they shut things down. Where it hurts them is it, it sends a message that the Republicans have been taken hostage by the tea party and by a group of extremists and that will help the Democrats reclaim the White House in 2016.

I don't agree with Newt's interpretation of what happened in the mid- '90s when brought into a shut down twice in the end of 1995. The most people who look at that objectively who not players had to say what happened was the Republicans got hurt in both those shutdowns, you can look at the polls, very similar numbers to what you just cited, Anderson, and that got the president back in the game. He became a -- then he and Newt were able to work out this collaboration.

GINGRICH: But you know, Anderson, we have the opposite problem now. Just look at Barack Obama's speeches this week. You have a president refusing to negotiate. Now, under our constitution if you're the House and the president refuses to negotiate, what do you do to get his attention?

GERGEN: But you would really be willing to sort of just by day in and day out let the financial community be uncertain whether the United States is going to pay a settler, it might go into default, you would be willing to live with that and have Republicans take blame for that?

GINGRICH: Sure. Look, no one wants the United States to go into default and the United States isn't going to go into default. The treasury has, as you well know, many technical skills dragging this thing on for months. We attach things to the debt ceiling all the time. So, the question is could the Republican House work out something, not repeal of Obamacare, but some significant step on the debt ceiling and is that a legitimate demands in order to pass the debt ceiling? In my judgment, it is.

GERGEN: That's a very different proposition from shutting down the government or especially taking it into default over Obamacare. That's a more modest version and maybe there's something that can be worked out there, Anderson.

COOPER: We will leave it there. Newt Gingrich, thank you. David Gergen, thanks as well.

Well, let us know what you think. You think too it is going to government shut down. Follow me on Twitter @andersoncopper.

Coming up nest, another mass shooting this time in Chicago and the people standing up trying to make it the last.

NBA hall of famer, Isaiah Thomas joins us next.

Later, Sylvia's story. She died at the navy yard. She lives on in her brother and her sister's hearts, they join me for unforgettable conversation.


COOPER: When the news broke about the Washington Navy massacre, the country stood still. Not another mass shooting, people said. Well, last night there was another mass shooting and chances are, you didn't even hear about it. You should.

Tonight, Chicago police are looking for the shooter who open-fire at an outdoor basketball court on the city's southwest side. Police say the gunman used in assaults start rifle with a high capacity magazine.

A 3-year-old boy is among the 13 people he shot. You can imagine what an assault star rifle does to a toddler, a little boy who was hit in the head. Know, the child caught in the senseless crossfire.

We have been covering Chicago's epidemic and gun violence for years now in this program. Every death, every entry, a tragedy.

Deborah Feyerick is in Chicago. And tonight, she has been piecing together the mayhem that unfolded on that basketball court. Here's her report.


DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a perfect night for a late night of basketball, perfect until the shattering sounds of gunfire. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the shots, like 20 shots.

FEYERICK: Panic and pandemonium spread quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of police and ambulance, a lot of people, a lot of rungs, a lot of people, everything.

FEYERICK: The basketball game was in full swing. About 10:15, a gunman walked onto the court and opened fire using a high powered assault rifle. People simply fell where they were, others ran for cover. Thirteen were hit, including two teenagers and a 3-year-old boy.

Deonta Howard was shot near the ear, the bullet exiting his cheek. Miraculously he survived. His grandmother is still reeling from the fatal shooting of her son several months ago.

SEMEHCA NUNN, DEONTA'S GRANDMOTHER: It needs to stop. You all out here killing these innocent people.

FEYERICK: This is the Southside of Chicago, an area known as back of the yard. There is a lot of gang activity, a lot of shooting and a lot of people simply don't come out after dark.

SUPT. GARRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE: Based on evidence and our initial interviews with witnesses, this appears to be a gang related shooting.

FEYERICK: There were more than a hundred gangs in Chicago. Turf wars are fierce, violence rampant and Chicago's men have become desensitized says Pastor Corey Brooks.

Is it gang related?

COREY BROOKS, DEONTA HOWARD'S FAMILY SPOKESMAN: I'm sure if the individual does not turn themselves in, it could mean more gunfire. It could possibly mean retaliation.

FEYERICK: Retaliation, revenge and a cycle of murder with no end in sight.


COOPER: Deborah Feyerick joins us now live from Chicago. Thirteen victims in one place, do you have any updates on their conditions?

FEYERICK: We do. We can tell you that the 3-year-old boy underwent two surgeries today. The family pastor says it's not clear what sort of long term damage he will ultimately suffer. As for the other victims, the other 12, they were in either serious or stable condition. The police superintendent, Anderson says, it was a miracle that no one was killed -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Deborah, thanks.

For Chicago's gun crisis or violence crisis, I should say, has brought together a range of people all committed to stopping the shootings.

Two of them join me now. Father Michael Pflager, a long time community activist in Chicago and former NBA player, hall of famer star, Isaiah Thomas, who grew up on Chicago's west side.

Father, when you hear 13 people out enjoying a night summer evening were gunned down, one of the victims, 3-years-old, I mean, what goes through your mind?

REV. MICHAEL PFLEGER, SAINT SABRINA CHURCH: Well, I mean, obviously, I'm horrified and I'm angry. Because what happened on that basketball court last night is no different really than what happened in the Navy yard in D.C. It's a mass shooting. But we are seeing that all the time in Chicago and other places around this country. And until we deal with the symptoms, this creating this perfect storm to happen and until we get into the head of these young brothers and tell them how much we love and care for them and have them make other choices and while we have crazy guns all over the streets, you can't get a job but you can get a gun, we are going to continue to see this unfortunately.

COOPER: Is there something going on in Chicago that is worse than elsewhere. I mean, Chicago police say that the murder rate this year is actually down from last year. I have been there over the years reporting on this. And it just seems to not get much better. The murder rate may be down but we're seeing far too many young people die.

PFLEGER: Absolutely. That's one of my concerns, Anderson. Until we, as a country, are as outraged at what happens in Chicago as we are at what happens in Connecticut or Aurora, Colorado, with Gabby Gifford or Newtown or any place else and decide that we are going to fundamentally change some of the symptoms that help bring this about. And until we deal with the gun thing, I mean, Congress had a tremendous opportunity they blew of getting universal background checks. Illinois had an opportunity to have some stiff gun laws and respond to the murder of our children like Connecticut did to their children, but they didn't do it.

COOPER: Isaiah, you grew up on tough neighborhood in the west side of Chicago. First of all, what was your reaction to the shootings?

ISAIAH THOMAS, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Well, we all are saddened and horrified by it, you know, by the callousness of and the loss of life, you know. We all have lived and grown up in poverty. And, you know, when you put weapons and drugs on top of poverty, that makes it almost impossible to get out of, you know, have an access to education, having access to jobs, those are the things that these communities need.

COOPER: Father, I mean, you alluded to this. When I was in Chicago a couple years ago reporting from the Southside about killings of young people. I talked to then secretary of education Arnie Duncan who was running the schools of Chicago at that time. And he was saying flat out if this was happening to white kids in a suburban neighborhood, this would be making national headlines. It would be, you know, people would be screaming about this. But because it's Chicago, because it's in the inner city, it doesn't even make the evening news a lot of times, and the media is as much to blame as anybody. But people don't focus on it.

PFLEGER: I think you're right, Anderson. And I man, for example, last week, when that mass shooting took place in the Navy yard, the entire country focused on it all day every day and said, what are we going to do to get a solution on this and find out how it happened? New security checks, everything had to be done, OK.

Mass shooting happened in Chicago last night. Happened every night in Chicago. Will we take the same emphasis as a country? Will be just outrage as a country? A woman tell me, you know, just a few months ago and asked her, why aren't you now as concern when marching about the Newtown Connecticut kids? And she said, I identified with those kids, but I will identify with the kids in the Southside. What's wrong with that picture?

THOMAS: Black and Brown children in our communities, we have to start loving each other and stop killing each other. Because at some point in time, you know, black men must stop killing Black men. Black and Brown men, you can't keep killing each other. That has to start here, with us, before we can spread it out to America. We have to value lives in our own community and we have to value our brothers and sisters more than we have valued them as of late.

COOPER: And there's not an easy answer, how you tackle that issue in your community. I mean, that's something that's a tough thing to do.

THOMAS: No, it's more easier than we think. You know, love conquers hate. And you know, there was a time when I was growing up in the '60s and '70s, when all these Black and Brown brothers and this white brother standing next to me, we used to greet and meet each other and say, how you doing, brother, and we used to share love with each other. We didn't dehumanize each other with the language that we used. We weren't calling each other dogs and animals and everything else. We, you know, the language that we put around our communities now and the language that we speak to each other, you know, it's very important. Words carry meaning.

COOPER: Father, do you have hope that that change can be made? That sense of compassion, that sense of caring, that looking out for one another can be rebuilt?

PFLEGER: Well, I think we have got to keep fighting for the fundamental changes that have to take place in society and how America looks at our communities and what they give our communities. But at the same time, a year ago, Isaiah was here, we walked these streets and these brothers here were all part of that.

We brought brothers together with NBA players, had a game. We have had two 12 week leagues and six weeks (INAUDIBLE). Violence in this particular area right here dropped 95 percent until last night when two people got killed.

But we saw the love. We saw guys that are rivals on the street now helping each other up in the game and calling each other by names because they were ball players in the same thing. We put 130 back in GED classes, 160 into jobs. We can see the brothers have already changed. They want to turn this thing around but we have got to get help to turn this thing around. We have to offer the opportunities and we got to get inside the heads of the ones that still don't love themselves or value themselves or value anybody else and teach them violence is not the way, not the solution.

COOPER: Isaiah, you started your own after school program, windy city hoops, right?

THOMAS: Yes. We started it with the mayor. And you know, we employed -- we had 18-20,000 people working this summer and we opened up ten park districts and we brought, through sports and through recreations, the kids got a chance to know each other. And once they get to know each, once they got the chance to feel each other and love each other, they are not thinking about killing each other.

COOPER: Isaiah Thomas, Father Pfleger, I know you have another tournament this weekend. I wish you well with it and I look forward to talking to you again. Thank you.

PFLEGER: Thank you, Anderson.

THOMAS: Thank you.

COOPER: For more on the story, go to anytime.

Up next, remembering Sylva Frazier, I want you to know her name. She touched countless lives before he died in the Navy yard shooting. Her sister and her brother join me ahead and they talk about forgiveness tonight into empowering conversation.

And later, the new president of Iran is on claiming charm offensive, reaching out to the United States, can he be trusted? Find out ahead.


COOPER: Hey, welcome back.

The week that began with gunfire is ending with memorial services for the 12 men and women killed at the Washington Navy yard. People who knew them are gathering to remember the lives they lived. Michael Arnold, Kathy Gaarde, Jay-Jay (ph) Johnson, frank Kohler, Kenneth Proctor, Vishnu Pandit, Arthur Daniels, Mary Francis Knight, Gerald Read, Martin Bodrog, Mike Ridgell, and Sylva Frasier.

Sylva was 53 and she loved being around people. Tonight, her sister, Wendy, and brother, Bobby, are telling her story. They sat down with me earlier today for what I think you will agree was a pretty remarkable conversation. \ (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Wendy, I'm so sorry for your loss. What do you want people to know about your sister? WENDY EDMONDS, SISTER OF SYLVIA FRASIER: I want them to know she was not a victim. That she was Sylvia Rene Frasier. She was sweet. She was loving and she was giving. And her DNA makeup was to always put everybody else before herself.

COOPER: Bobby, I heard a story that she had a second job at Wal-Mart, not that she needed the money, but just she liked being around people and people there loved her. What do you want people to know?

BOBBY, SISTER OF SYLVIA FRASIER: I think people who knew Sylvia already know. But for the larger community, for my sister to -- for people to know that she was a very warm caring person. She has literally would give you her shirt off her back and go to the store and buy another one because you needed the shirt more than she did right then and there. And she was that kind person and always had a positive influence and always concerned about your well-being, your wellness, that's the kind of person she was.

COOPER: How long had she worked at the Navy yard?

BOBBY: She has been with the Navy, 30 plus years.

COOPER: Did she loved her work?

BOBBY: Absolutely.

EDMONDS: She loved her work. She was dedicated. She was recruited out of high school and she's been in the Navy ever since.

COOPER: Wow. She's been in the Navy out of high school?

EDMONDS: She's been working for the Navy.

COOPER: That's incredible.

BOBBY: She also was a Navy baby because our father spent 23 years in the United States Navy from 1942 to '64.

COOPER: I talked to John Weaver, a man who worked with her. I talked to him just the other night and he spoke about your sister. I want to play what he had to say. He truly loved your sister.

JOHN WEAVER, WITNESS TO NAVY YARD SHOOTING SPREE: Sylvia Frasier I worked with everyday. And that's the person that I am most sad about. She was the nicest person in the world and I cannot believe that that man killed her. It's just -- that's -- I can't believe that.

COOPER: It must give you some solace to know how loved she was and what an impact she made on so many people.

EDMONDS: Well, that's true. So much so that the outpouring of love to us, I mean, it's amazing. It's so much so that we have, in preparing for her services, we have to move from our own home church because it just cannot accommodate the number of people who are coming out just to, you know, to honor Sylvia. COOPER: Bobbe, one of your other sisters said something very profound. She has a hole in her heart but to fill that hole, she has to (INAUDIBLE). Do you both feel that way?

JAMES "BOBBE" FRASIER JR., BROTHER OF SYLVIA FRASIER, NAVY YARD VICTIM: Most definitely. I think one of the things is that our parents have always taught us to forgive. They always taught us to be truthful no matter if people had difficulty with the truth, it's better to be truthful, than you don't carry that burden with you. You said or did whatever needed to be and also to have love with respect for the person. That's -- those three powerful pillars have been with our family all my life.

WENDY EDMONDS, SISTER OF SYLVIA FRASIER, NAVY YARD VICTIM: I can give you an example of that. Yesterday, there was a briefing for the families by the FBI. I sort of lost it and I thought about her for the moment and while the chaplain was holding my hand, I said, Sylvia would say, Wendy, get up off the floor, it's OK. He didn't mean it. He didn't mean it. I'm all right. He didn't mean it. I know I can hear her say that.

COOPER: You really think she would say that.

EDMONDS: I absolutely believe she would say that. Everybody who knows her knows that that's true.

COOPER: So that gives you the power to forgive?

EDMONDS: The power to forgive and work at moving on.

FRASIER: I think, Anderson, the main thing is if we're going to be good human beings, if we're going to create a society where we all can exist and create and build and move forward, I think we have to forgive. The forgiveness helps us to grow. You can't account for what people do or what they think. You can forgive them for their behaviors and the things that they say.

I think in the other part is being truthful with them again helps people as well as it helps yourself. You need to be impeccable with your word and to love and have respect attached to that, that means there's no possession, that means you're not trying to control and be disrespectful at the same time. For our parents and for my father in his United States Navy uniform we lived in the south and he not be served.

Here's a World War II veteran, it says for me, for them to teach us love and teach us to forgive people was a very powerful lesson based in reality. It wasn't just a theory. It was something that was practiced. That's the kinds of parents we come from. That's the kind of family we have.

That's why I think people are drawn to our family, most importantly, drawn to our sister, Sylvia, who we love so dearly. I'm her big brother. I'm heartbroken I couldn't be there to defend her and protect her like I've always done.

COOPER: I love hearing you say your sister's name.


COOPER: There's a lot of power in the way you say it.


COOPER: Thank you for talking to us.

EDMONDS: Thank you.

COOPER: I admire your strength and courage and inspiration. Thank you.

FRASIER: You're welcome.


COOPER: That's a strong family. >

Coming up next, Rudy Giuliani and Fareed Zakaria on Iran's new leader reaching out to the west and whether they think there may be a chance for better relations with the United States.

And later, Syria, the Assad regime makes a move that may signal whether it intends to cooperate on disclosing its chemical weapons program.


COOPER: Welcome back, questions have been unthinkable for more than three decades are now being put to the White House. Will the president of the United States meet with Iran's president when both men are in New York next week for the opening of the U.N. General Assembly? Will they possibly shake hands?

Today, aides said that President Obama has no meeting with Iranian officials on his schedule. Questions are being asked because that this man, Hassan Rouhani, Iran's newly elected president is showing willingness to engage with the west including the United States, Iran's archenemy obviously since the Revolution in '79.

Now Obama and the president have already exchanged letters, which Rouhani called positive and constructive. In an interview with NBC News this week, he flat out said Iran is not seeking nuclear weapons and then yesterday in an opinion piece in the "Washington Post,"

Rouhani said a constructive approach to diplomacy doesn't mean relinquishing one's rights. It means engaging with one's counterpart on the basis of equal footing and mutual respect, to address shared concerns and achieve shared objectives. We must work together to end the unhealthy rivalries and interferences."

Given Iran's recent history, the lack of transparency in its nuclear program and the utter belligerence of its last president, should the U.S. take this guy seriously? Can he be trusted? Should President Obama actually meet with him?

I spoke earlier with Rudy Giuliani, obviously the former mayor of New York and Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" here on CNN.


COOPER: Mr. Mayor, what do you think of the changes going on in Iran? I mean, clearly it seems like Rouhani -- it certainly a lot of different at least in tone than Ahmidinejad?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: No question, the tone is completely different. The question is, is this credible or is this just a way of buying time so they can continue to either enrich uranium or maybe even stop that for a while.

COOPER: Do you think it's credible?

GIULIANI: I begin by being very skeptical because of the history, because they played us for a fool before, Rouhani actually even bragging about it. I have to look at that history and say, there's a really good chance they're doing it again. At the same time, you can go ahead and talk to them and you can go ahead and try to test this out and see is there a change.

But the main thing is you better be ready not to make any concessions until they deliver the goods. I would want to make sure there was a verification program in place. That we actually began the verification program and knew they were going to let us go inspect these facilities.

Then when we got to that point we felt they were really delivering, we could start talking about reducing the sanctions. Because I do think this is not a function of whatever happened in Syria, I think this is a function of the sanctions.

COOPER: Fareed, with Rouhani, do you believe there is a real difference? Do you believe this is a significant change?

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Look, I think these are very promising signs. You have to test it. They have in the past had a strategy of talking and not delivering. Here's what's different this time. Rouhani campaigned on this idea of being able to make a deal with the west so that he could ease the sanctions. Clearly the sanctions are what is behind this and they feel the pain.

There are the makings of a deal. You want to test it and make it step by step. You don't want to make the concessions before they allow the inspections. What gives me some hope is that Rouhani unlike Ahmadinejad is an insider. He's known the supreme leader since 1980. He has worked within this establishment. He is a cleric.

COOPER: Rouhani continues to say though that Iran has no nuclear weapons program. Should that concern us he was saying that or just talk? GIULIANI: Assad was saying that until a day before he agreed at all, to allow inspections of the chemical facilities. I think Fareed is correct in the sense that Rouhani is putting out different signals than in the past. I even think being a skeptic that this is, is a little different than it was six or seven years ago. I don't think this is to buy time to just increase uranium and enrich it more.

I think they're actually at a point where they're only a year away any way. I think they are going to halt the program. I think what they are trying to do is get relief from the sanctions and then when the economy starts to come back again then we have to worry that they are going to go back and start enriching uranium again.

So the key to me here is I think it is pretty simple that the administration can be tough and not drink the Kool-Aid. I think if we say, all right, you want relief from the sanctions, we want to inspect all your facilities and then allow those inspections to take place for five, six, seven months and make sure they're not doing what they did five, six years ago, throw the inspectors out and make sure we have not only a change of words but change of action.

COOPER: Should President Obama meet with Rouhani next week?

ZAKARIA: I don't think the president should meet him. I think that's not the appropriate level because when things go wrong -- I think the secretary of state should meet with him. I think if that meeting went well -- look, as Rudy says, if you don't give away the store, there's nothing wrong with talking, there's nothing with meeting. There's nothing wrong --

COOPER: You would say secretary of state meet with him?

GIULIANI: I think Fareed is right. I come from the old school when the president walks in when the deal is done and blesses it. All the hard work is done before the president is there. You don't put your president in a position of having somebody walk out on him, having it backfire and if something goes wrong you don't want the president blamed for it.

Get all the details worked out. The main thing I would be concerned about in watching this is let's not give away anything until we have a verification program in place and we're actually executing it and our inspectors are confident that they're being given the access they were previously denied.


COOPER: Rudy Guiliani and Fareed Zakaria. Now a related program note, Fareed has an exclusively interview with former President Bill Clinton on his program "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," which is this Sunday at 10:00 a.m. and also repeating at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Let's get caught with some of the other stories. Susan Hendricks is here with the 360 Bulletin -- Susan.

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Syria has submitted an initial declaration of its chemical weapons program to the world's chemical weapons wash dog thereby meeting its first deadline under the agreement reached in Geneva. But at the same time, U.S. officials said that new intelligence shows the Syrian regime has moved its chemical weapons arsenals in the last 24 hours.

The worst of Manuel is over, but the floods the storm unleashed across Mexico have left nearly 100 people dead. Tonight, 68 people are still missing in one town ravaged by a mudslide. Thirty thousand tourists are trapped in Acapulco.

The U.S. Marshal Service canceled the auction of Jesse Jackson Jr.'s memorabilia after learning that at least one of the items may be a fake. The proceeds from the auction would have gone towards the $750,000 judgment against Jackson for his misuse of campaign funds.

A pair of six-foot Burmese pythons were among 850 snakes found in a garage of an animal control officer in suburban New York. Now authorities discovered he was illegally selling the reptiles while collecting disability payments at the same time.

COOPER: Yikes. Crazy, all right, thanks.

Up next, concern in one town in North Dakota over a man who's on a mission to buy up as much property as he can and turn the town into a haven for white supremacists.


COOPER: Not that long ago, this sentence would have been inconceivable from coast to coast and all around the world people standing in line for a phone. The "Ridiculist" is coming up.


COOPER: This Sunday in the small town of Leith, North Dakota, a so- called socialist movement, a white supremacist group, will hold a town hall meeting. The group says its visit to Leif is a gesture of goodwill as it plants the seeds of National Socialism in North Dakota and a show of support for a resident there named Craig Cobb.

The county sheriff is a bit concerned. He doesn't know how many people will show up to support or oppose the group. Police officers will obviously be on hand. It turns out that Craig Cobb, also a white supremacist is not popular in the community because of what he is trying to do there. It's a strange story. Gary Tuchman takes us up close.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the tiny town of Leith, North Dakota, life has always been quiet and peaceful until now.

(on camera): What do you want to do to this town?

CRAIG COBB, WHITE SUPREMACIST: We want to politically control the town, yes, that's absolutely true.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): What kind of political control? Simple, Craig Cobb wants a white power takeover.

(on camera): Is it fair to say that you consider whites superior to blacks, Jews, Mexicans, gays, other groups?

COBB: I don't understand why the other different people don't say white is pretty darned nice and clever.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): The population of Leif is only 24. So his plan, as crazy as it sounds might actually happen. He bought his house here recently and has been buying up other lands for like-minded friends.

(on camera): You bought this land here?

COBB: Yes.

TUCHMAN: Why did you buy this land for?

COBB: These lots were $500 each.

TUCHMAN: At $500?

COBB: Now, they're worth about $3,300.

TUCHMAN: Why did you buy here?

COBB: These are all thin lots here.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Cobb says he picked Leif because it's a beautiful place and land is cheap.

(on camera): How long of a period did it take you to buy these 12 lots plus your house?

COBB: Maybe 10 weeks total.

TUCHMAN: But no one really knew what you were doing in the beginning?

COBB: They don't know.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Cobb says like-minded people with white nationalist organizations will be taking up residents on his properties so they will have the majority of votes to take over the town. It would a place, he says, where white nationalist banners will be flown, where white culture will be celebrated and where minorities would not be welcome.

(on camera): Do you want that to be the beginning of something bigger that happens in other towns?

COBB: Other nations and the world.

TUCHMAN: Frankly, you come up as very bitter with a lot of hate. COBB: I do? Be careful.

TUCHMAN: Where does that come from? You're an educated man. Where does all that hate come from?

COBB: You know, we hate that which threaten that we love, Gary. We're being genocided in our own country. Wouldn't you be bitter about it?

TUCHMAN (voice-over): The other 23 residents in Leith are aghast. This farmer is also the mayor, Ryan Schock.

MAYOR RYAN SCHOCK, LEITH, NORTH DAKOTA: It's very shocking because I didn't even know these big groups exist. I'm trying to make sense of it all.

TUCHMAN: Craig Cobb is wanted in Canada for wilful promotion of hatred. He says he is not a member of any white supremacists organizations, but he is prolific in supremacists' writings online. The Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project says Cobb is one of the best known white supremacists in North America.

HEIDI BEIRICH, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: He believes whites should be separate from other races. He is also a raging anti-Semite and he is a member of the Creativity Religion, which is a religion that literally worships the Arian man instead of God.

TUCHMAN: Steven Bay is the sheriff of Grant County, North Dakota, where Leith is located.

SHERIFF STEVEN BAY, GRANT COUNTY, NEBRASKA: I have talked to the Canadian authorities numerous times. They are not going to extradite. It is not a crime to which they will expedite anybody from the United States back to Canada.

TUCHMAN (on camera): They're not interested in having him back?

BAY: Not whatsoever.

TUCHMAN: Is it fair you're not particularly interested in having him in your county?

BAY: That's fair to say.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Of the 24 people who live in Leith, there is one who is black, Bobby Harper.

(on camera): Would you stay in the town if his supporters came in and started controlling the town?

BOBBY HARPER, RESIDENT: Yes, I'd still would be here.

TUCHMAN: How come?

HARPER: Because this is my home and I have a right to be here. TUCHMAN (voice-over): Officials in Leith and Grant County said they would consider legally dissolving the town to avoid it being taken over by white supremacists, but their hope is it doesn't come to that. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Leith, North Dakota.


COOPER: It's hard to believe. Coming up, the "Ridiculist." We'll be right back.


COOPER: Time now for the "Ridiculist." Tonight, we're addressing a truly modern phenomenon, standing in line for hours, even days for a phone. That's right. The new iPhone went on sale today and there were some issues outside an Apple store in Pasadena. Fights broke out. Several people arrested.

There are reports elsewhere, robberies in line, people trading $2,000 purses for a better spot in line. Why would you need a $2,000 purse anyway? Anyway, people hiring homeless people to stand in line for them. For the most part the mood was giddy. I don't want to get Grandpa Simpson. Back in my day, people cheered when a war was ended or smallpox was eradicated, not when a new phone went on sale.

What a wonderful world we live in, a world where people have the freedom to stand in line to get something the overwhelming majority of them have in their pocket. It wasn't that long ago you got a phone, plugged it into the wall and that was pretty much it until they moved or died. What made people think not only do they need this new iPhone, but they need it today before everybody else.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you get a phone the first day in your hand, it's a different feel than you get on the third day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have the iPhone 5 and you've only had it for --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like two months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're in line to get a new phone?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? It's the best thing to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long have you been waiting out here today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably like eight hours, nine hours. We're with good company so been good conversations the entire day.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I can't stand knowing there's something better out there. I will be reading about it and can't sleep at night so I had to do this. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, how long have you been out here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fourteen hours.


COOPER: I get that people like their gadgets. I have an iPhone and I like it. I won't disparage the technology. That is why we have Louie.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next iPhone will be this, this thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much 100 percent of people are driving or texting and killing and everybody's murdering each other with their cars.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But people are willing to risk taking their life and ruining their own because they don't want to be alone for a second. There's a culture as soon as you get to do it, I'm going to do it! There's no like maybe that's not -- just a constant -- nobody takes in life unless it comes through this.

Like I think if Jesus comes back and starts telling everyone everything, it will just -- everybody's going to be twittering and they won't -- I am Christ and I have -- my God, Jesus is right in front of me, I swear to God.


COOPER: In everyone's defense, the new iPhone does come in never before offered colors. Make new phones and keep the old, one is silver and the other gold or was it make new friends, same difference certainly on the "Ridiculist." That does it for us. We'll see you, I guess Monday. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.