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Hostage Drama Unfolding at Kenyan Mall; Clinton "Wrestling" With 2016 Run; FAA Looking at Gadget Restrictions.

Aired September 23, 2013 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Security forces launch an assault on a shopping mall in Kenya where a deadly hostage drama is still unfolding right now. Authorities are questioning more than 10 people arrested in connection with the attack. The sound of gunfire sent people running for cover earlier today. Kenyan authorities say the attackers appear to be on the run inside the huge complex. Three terrorists were killed in today's assault. Kenya's interior minister says security forces are in charge and fires set by the attackers are now being put out.

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JOSEPH OLE LENKU, KENYAN INTERIOR MINISTER: We want to assure Kenyans that our forces are in full control of the situation. And we are saying in no time that the fire will be put off.

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BLITZER: The Kenyan Red Cross says 62 people have died since the siege began. That number was revised down from 69. The al Qaeda affiliated group al Shabaab has claimed responsibility for the attack.

It's not clear how many hostages may still be inside the Westgate Shopping Mall in Kenya. The siege is now in its third day. Before today's assault, the terrorists were thought to be holding about 10 hostages on one level of the mall.

Let's bring in law enforcement analyst, Tom Fuentes. He's a former FBI assistant director.

Tom, how do security forces balance the need to rid the mall of attackers while also trying to protect those remaining hostages?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST & FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Hi, Wolf. Yes, it's a very difficult situation to establish a security perimeter outside the mall as well as inside the mall trying to get people to leave that are able to, if they're at all able to walk still and haven't been too severely wounded. That's the other issue is how much of that mall is or is not under the control of the authorities. They're saying they're in control, yet you have hostages being held. You have terrorists on the loose. Fires set that have not been put out. It's not exactly a situation I would call controlled. BLITZER: How much concern should there be that attacks like we just have been seeing over these past few days at this huge shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya, the so-called soft targets, whether shopping mall, a movie theater, how concerned should we be about that? What can be done to protect against these terror attacks at so-called soft targets?

FUENTES: We should be very concerned, especially in the case of al Shabaab. It's been the most successful of the al Qaeda affiliates in recruiting American young men from Minneapolis, from some other communities, as well as Canadian young men, particularly in the Toronto area, to travel to Somalia and learn how to be terrorists with explosives and guns and grenades. The issue is, will they come back to the U.S. They were in Somalia waging attacks in Somalia and several Americans have died there, conducted suicide bombings there. But now in the last couple of years, al Shabaab has started to operate outside of Somalia. In 2010, we had the bombings in Uganda where 74 people were killed by them. The FBI dispatched dozens of agents there because an American was one of the victims killed. And then now you have this large attack in Nairobi. The fear is that those young American men can come back to the U.S., and, once they're here, if they're motivated to carry out terrorist attacks, they're certainly going to have no shortage of weaponry to get their hands-on here in the U.S. Look at the streets of Chicago. It's practically Mogadishu West. I think that once they -- if they come back here and they're determined to conduct an attack and if they like the way this worked out in the mall, there's certainly going to be very little we can do about it to stop that.

BLITZER: You know, a lot of sporting events, stadiums you go in, you go through metal detectors. Do you envision that being necessary going into shopping malls.

FUENTES: I don't think they could do it. If you take any major mall with 240 or 200 stores -- I live in northern Virginia, where you have Tyson's Corner, gigantic malls. There are so many entrances. The idea to put magnetometers, again, and the number of individuals to conduct the searches of everybody coming in and out, the bags and people carrying purses, I don't see it. You have a multiplex movie theater where each theater, and it may have 14 different theaters attached to each other, where each individual theater has to have at least two fire doors that exit out into the parking lot. You have to man every single one of those.

And some facilities are operating from 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning to 9:00 or 10:00 at night. You're looking at 12 hours from the time the public has access, not including the employees that get there before or stay after. These soft targets are going to stay soft. It's not economically feasible to place the security on them. You have the commuter systems, the three and a half million people in New York City that commute in and out of Manhattan on the subway system, the number of entrances and exits to that subway system, bus systems, taxis, grocery stores, it's just not going to happen.

The only thing that can happen is for the FBI an the CIA and all of the U.S. government services to have the best possible effective partnerships overseas to stop this before it comes, to be aware of the individuals on their way back to the U.S. to carry out an attack.

And now, nobody is talking about the fact that they're going to have sequestration, a government shutdown. What's going to happen in the U.S. embassies around the world next week?

BLITZER: It's serious stuff.

Tom Fuentes, good analysis. Thank you.

Syria, here certainly in the spotlight at the United Nations. The battle there is on the minds of so many member nations who have gathered here in New York as they debate what to do next. We'll take a closer look at that debate when we come back.

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BLITZER: President Obama is getting ready to meet with the Nigerian president. They're meeting here in New York in connections with the United Nations General Assembly. We'll listen in and hear what the president has to say. I assume he wants to make a statement about the Kenyan mall attacks. Stay tuned. We'll have coverage of that.

One of the other issues during the United Nations General Assembly is certainly Syria. The United States is standing down on the threat of military strikes, at least for now, while the U.N. Security Council considers the Russian plan for securing Syria's chemical weapons.

That didn't stop the Syrian president, Bashar al Assad, from taking this shot at the U.S. during an interview on Chinese TV.

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BASHAR AL ASSAD, SYRIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): If the U.S. wants to find excuses for war, it will find them as it has never stopped war. There was a Russian/Syrian agreement for surrender of chemical weapons. They raise international opposition for war against war as well as opposition from within the U.S. because there are no justifications for it.

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BLITZER: Joining us now, our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, here at the U.N., covering the U.N. for a while.

Nick, Assad not coming to New York is Assad. I assume others from his government will be here. They are still considered by the U.N. the legitimate government of Syria. But opposition rebels, they're here as well.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They will be attending from the Syrian government. In terms of the opposition, we're trying to work out if they're allowed in the building. Apparently, some of the leaders have been in New York in the past few days. That's one thing to look out for.

Really, on the agenda now, it sort of held off by The Hague's Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. If that plan agrees between them, if that's feasible or doable. That may not happen until Thursday. Then they give the document to their Executive Council who have to ratify it. Only when that happens, when they have a really authentic debate here about where the U.N. resolutions are back up to where the Geneva idea could actually go.

BLITZER: Syrians did hand over a catalog of what they supposedly have as far as their chemical weapons stockpile. The reaction from the international community has been?

PATON WALSH: Pleasantly surprised in Washington. I think the interesting thing to note, Assad says it's a Russian timetable. Actually, the U.N. Chemical Weapons Convention they agreed to join. Essentially, still adhering to the U.S. timetable. Americans wanted it by Saturday and they got it. There's a strange dual track where they pretend they're not going along with Geneva and are waiting for resolution to back it up. I have a feeling that timetable is so quick that the organization in The Hague trying to implement it and almost themselves not keeping up with the pace required.

BLITZER: The next step is actually to start sending in teams of U.N. inspectors to look and see where the locations are.

PATON WALSH: That could be as early as mid-October, which is two, three weeks away now. The timetable really moving fast and the case always was, but would it be quick enough to find the inspectors to get people on the ground to keep up with the pace of Geneva, which is so fast.

BLITZER: Dangerous assignment for those inspectors, too. Let's not loose sight of that.

Nick, thanks very much. Nick Walsh here at the U.N.

Hillary Clinton has certainly now become a lot more visible. She has done her first full-scale interview since stepping down as the secretary of state. We'll tell you what she told a magazine about her plans for 2016.

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BLITZER: We're still more than three years away from the next presidential election. Some Democrats, though, already have been anointing Hillary Clinton as the party's candidate. Secretary Clinton herself has been saying, "Not so fast." And now she's acknowledging that a run for the White House is on her mind.

Jessica Yellin has the story.

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JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In her first interview since leaving office, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tells New York magazine she wrestles with the idea of running for president. "I do, but I'm both pragmatic and realistic," she says. "I will just continue to weigh what the factors are that would influence her making a decision."

After living on what she calls this high wire for 20 years, she says she's enjoying "ordinary everyday pleasures," living in New York with former president Clinton. "We laugh at our dogs, we watch stupid movies. We take long walks. We go for a swim."

(CHANTING)

YELLIN: Apparently, talking about 2016 is not on their list of favorite things. "I don't think even he is focused on that right now," she says.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think she'd be the first to tell you that there's no such thing as a done deal ever by anybody. But I don't know what she's going to do.

YELLIN: Really? Well, Clinton's friends and allies are more focused on November 8, 2016. They readily point to the ways she's grown since the days when then-Senator Clinton became the runner-up in 2008.

Joe Hagen interviewed friends of Hillary for his article.

JOE HAGEN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: That she's more comfortable in her own skin, she's more independent, she's her own entity now, whereas, she hadn't been before.

YELLIN: Long time aide, Melan Revere (ph), is quoted saying, "She doesn't repeat her mistakes. She analyses what went wrong here." Translation, if she runs, 2016 won't look like 2008.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: If she does, she will win. And when she becomes president, she'll be one of the best- equipped people to enter the White House in a very long time.

YELLIN: Just to be safe, the political action committee, Ready for Hillary, raised more than $1 million.

The would-be candidate is staying in the public eye. This week, she'll be front and center in her new role at the Clinton Global Initiative.

(on camera): At the Clinton Foundation event this week, her events, including a panel moderated by our own Sanjay Gupta. And I have a little news for you. You can also expect her to make an appearance when President Obama and former President Clinton talk health care reform Tuesday night.

Jessica Yellin, CNN, Washington.

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ANNOUNCER: CNN tonight, at 7:00, "Erin Burnett OutFront," an American is held prisoner. Iran says he's a spy. His family tells his side of the story exclusively to CNN.

And at 9:00 on "Piers Morgan Live," Piers brings you closing arguments in the case against Michael Jackson's last concert promoter. Who is really to blame for his death? It all runs tonight on CNN starting with "Erin Burnet OutFront" at 7:00 and "Anderson Cooper 360" at 8:00, and "Piers Morgan Live" at 9:00, tonight on CNN.

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BLITZER: And just ahead, why the FAA is reviewing its policy for electronic devices on flights and how it could change life for a lot of flyers.

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BLITZER: It's the rule when flying, turn off all electronics. For years, flyers were told the rule was there for an important safety reason. But this week, an FAA advisory panel is meeting to discuss relaxing some of the rules about when you can use your devices.

Rene Marsh wanted to find out if a smartphone or tablet really poses a danger while traveling. So she traveled to Seattle to visit Boeing, the largest commercial manufacturer of airplanes.

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UNIDENTIFIED FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Please turn off all cell phones and other electronic devices.

RENEE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This fall, the FAA could decide to relax those restrictions. At Boeing's plant in Seattle, we asked the people who build the planes if it's dangerous to keep devices on during all phases of flight.

KENNY KIRCHOFF, BOEING ENGINEER: The emissions are being measured by this antenna here.

MARSH: Inside Boeing's electromagnetic interference lab, engineers have been studying the issue for years, testing laptops, phones, and tablets impacting systems.

Engineer Kenny Kirchoff is testing my cell phone.

KIRCHOFF: This phone is communicating with the cell tower, and these spikes show that it has failed.

MARSH: Its emissions cross the threshold and could interfere with systems like the plane's smoke alarm.

Next test, a laptop.

KIRCHOFF: It was above the limit line.

MARSH: It failed, showing potential interference with the pilot's communications radios. A tablet in Wi-Fi mode also failed.

But the same table in airplane mode, tested safe.

KIRCHOFF: It's not necessarily that a phone can bring down an airplane. That's not really the issue. The issue is interfering with the airplane and causing more work for pilots during critical phases of flight.

MARSH: A recent survey found one in three passengers left their devices on because they forgot. Despite that, engineers say no electronic device has ever taken down a plane.

(on camera): New planes are being built knowing passengers are flying with electronics and they want to use them. So planes like this one being designed with technology that can counter interference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turning your electronic devices off.

MARSH (voice-over): Kirchoff recommends devices not be used in flight unless the airplane has been tested against every possible electronic device that could be used onboard. And, he said, there's another problem.

KIRCHOFF: You would be asking all the flight attendants to monitor which devices are good and which can't be used. And that's a heavy burden for flight attendants.

MARSH: A burden, he says, is impractical.

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MARSH: All right, well, that FAA advisory board meets this Tuesday, that's tomorrow, and Wednesday, to complete their recommendations. Then they will submit their decision to the FAA by the end of the month.

Now, this new rule, which would loosen the restrictions, would likely take effect next year. But if you're wondering about those cell phones, that is not being considered, only electronics like eReaders and iPods -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Rene Marsh, thanks very much.

Speaking of the cell phones, those smart devices, shall we say, Blackberry, we have learned, has agreed to be acquired by a group led by Fairfax Financial Holdings for $4.7 billion. We'll have lot more on the story coming up in the next hour here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We'll take a quick break. More news right after this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the Emmy goes to "Breaking Bad."

(APPLAUSE)

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BLITZER: That was "Breaking Bad" winning the Emmy last night for outstanding drama series. It was the show's first time winning that award. In other drama categories, Claire Danes took the Outstanding Lead Actress Award for "Homeland." She's great. The actor Jeff Daniels won his first Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actor for his role as lead anchor Will McEvoy in "The Newsroom." He's great as well.

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JEFF DANIELS, ACTOR: I've been nominated a few times but then it always goes to somebody else. You kind of get used to that. So it's a wonderful feeling. I probably -- it will hit me on Wednesday.

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BLITZER: On the comedy side, "Modern Family" locked up Outstanding Series for the fourth year in a row.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer at the United Nations. I'll be back, 5:00 p.m. eastern, in "The Situation Room."

NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.