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GOP Lawmaker: White House To Blame; Huntsman: Shutdown Hurts GOP; Defying Congress By Refusing Shutdown; Shutdown Threatens Weddings Across U.S.

Aired October 01, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Want to talk a little more about this government shutdown. This is a partial government shutdown, Social Security checks, the mail, national security, that keeps going. But small business loans, that's delayed. National parks, museums, i.e., Yosemite, the Smithsonian, they're closed. Visas, passports, gun permits, they're all on hold and as we mentioned at the top of the hour, almost 800,000 federal workers are furloughed, people who are getting paid, active military.

Overnight the president signed a bipartisan bill to guarantee their salaries and you may not see very much patriotism within the ranks of Congress, but there was plenty today at the World War II memorial. You have to see these pictures. Some veterans from Mississippi did not let the shutdown stop them from paying their respects this morning. They moved aside. Here they go.

They moved aside the barriers themselves just to be able to see and walk around this beautiful memorial, at least one Republican lawmaker was appalled that it was closed to begin with and blamed the White House.

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REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: This is to barricade an open-air monument when you know there are people who have been chartered and they're going to come to this town and say, how can we intercept? Let's put some extra people on the ground and use some resources to lock people out of an open-air monument. That's a White House decision.

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BALDWIN: Coming up next, he ran for president. He was seen as a moderate Republican. Now former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman is suggesting the GOP went too far this time as the government shuts down. How would he fix it? What does he think is going on behind closed doors? He will join me live next.

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BALDWIN: After a long, late night of political haggling, the U.S. government shutdown as the clock struck midnight. As this debate continues today, about 800,000 Americans are kept from being paid. A divide in the Republican Party is deepening. A rift some are calling very dangerous.

Jon Huntsman is one of them. He's criticizing this Republican strategy that uses a government shutdown as leverage to undercut the health reform law. Former Utah governor and 2013 Republican presidential candidate, Jon Huntsman joins me now from Washington. Governor, it's awesome having you back on the show.

JON HUNTSMAN, FORMER UTAH GOVERNOR: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's get right to it. I mean, I read how, you know, you called some of these Republican senators who rejected this strategy, you called them heroes. My question to you, putting you on the spot, what do you call these House Republicans who led this charge?

HUNTSMAN: Well, listen, let's just get to the real conversation here. It's above and beyond just any one party or a faction of one party. What we're seeing play out unfortunately is a failure of political leadership on both sides. The people who are suffering are those out in the real economy. We forget at the end of the day our focus ought to be on creating jobs and expanding the economic base.

You've got people in boardrooms across this country who want to reinvest in the economy, who want to expand their bases, who want to hire more people, which is what we need. In this very uncertain environment, complete with cliff hangers every other month, it becomes impossible for the private sector to do what it naturally should be doing right now.

So under no labels of which I'm a part, we've come up with a jobs- first program. You can find that at jobsfirst.com, in which we're saying we need a truce. We need a cease fire. Enough is enough. We're not going to have a peace plan any time soon, but we can call a cease fire. Let's push this out until unemployment gets to 6.5 percent.

BALDWIN: Governor, I hear you. I know a lot of people even some House Republicans who folks have been talking to today on Capitol Hill agree with you. We've heard from the president. It sounds like you're disagreeing with him. So you don't think this small fraction of, you know, House Republicans are to blame here. You're pointing fingers at both sides.

HUNTSMAN: I'm pointing fingers at both sides. I think this is a complete advocation of leadership on either side. We've gotten to the point where we've blown out the middle politically, the people who used to actually fashion deals and get them done at the end of the day. Right now we just need a ceasefire. We need to create some space where both sides can basically say, OK, we're putting off any real decisions until unemployment gets to 6.5 percent, which will be sometime next year.

That's important, Brooke, because the Federal Reserve has said they're going to keep interest rates at about zero until we get to 6.5 percent, when we get off life support, in essence. All the while, both sides can begin talking about what really needs to be discussed in this town, which is tax reform, energy policy, trade, and the things that are really going to create growth in jobs in this economy. We're not doing it now. We need to get to a position where we can begin that.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about these decisions. Before you can even really do that, we are up against this deadline of October 17th, right. So here we have -- and you watched this political ping-pong. That's one analogy people have been using and this game of chicken over the government shutdown. You fast forward, you know the deal. Three weeks from now when it hits the fan, so to speak, and the government could hit the debt ceiling, run out of cash to pay for bills, how do you see that, governor? How do you see that playing out?

HUNTSMAN: Well, that's where this cease fire plan would be perfectly suited. You push out the debt ceiling until we get into next year, unemployment of 6.5 percent. Here's what happens if we don't. You think the government shutdown is a big deal -- and we're going to hurt every day this goes on economically. The debt ceiling is a thermonuclear explosion.

That's when we wake up October 17th and we find the Treasury has $37 billion. We have an interest payment due of $29 billion shortly thereafter and debt rollover the next month. What is interesting here is we know what our expenditures are going to be, but we don't know what our income is going to be. Some days the treasury brings in $3 billion as a low. Sometimes it brings in $50 billion.

It's very unpredictable. Because of that, the threat of default is significant. A default would be a horrible thing for the global economy and for every consumer in this nation because it would jack up the cost of capital for borrowers and small business people trying to get by. That's something that we shouldn't have to deal with. We're the greatest nation on earth. The whole world is watching this play out. We deserve better frankly from our political class.

BALDWIN: Thermonuclear explosion, I just wrote that down. I'm quoting you on that one. Let me end with this because you -- as a member of the Republican Party, and I know you're not there on Capitol Hill, but what do you think is going on behind closed doors right now? I mean, who -- I guess it's sort of twofold. Who do you think is leading the party right now? Who do you think should be leading the party right now?

HUNTSMAN: Well, that's not for me to say. What I hope happens is that the Republican Party gets around to problem solving because the Republican Party has always succeeded. We've always won when we put problem solving first and foremost. We're at a point in time where we need to solve some problems and find not just problems but solutions. I put one on the table.

We're the party of Lincoln. We're the party of Roosevelt. We're the party of Eisenhower. We're the party of Reagan. In all cases we've had big, bold inclusionary visions that have spoken to problem solving. We can do it again. I have every confidence.

BALDWIN: OK, Governor Jon Huntsman, always a pleasure. Thank you so much. HUNTSMAN: Thanks, Brooke. Thermonuclear, don't forget it.

BALDWIN: Got you quoted.

Coming up, from a former governor to the current mayor of the District of Columbia, defying the government shutdown today, declaring all workers essential, here he is, Mayor Vincent Gray joining me live next.

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BALDWIN: The federal government may be closed, but this doesn't include employees of the District of Columbia. D.C. Mayor, Vincent Gray, told the White House that he was declaring all district employees essential. That means the street sweepers, the garbage collectors, the librarians. The district is unique because it requires a federal appropriation to spend its budget even though it is largely funded by locally raised taxes and fees.

So the mayor, Mr. Mayor, Vincent Gray, joining me now from Washington. So Mayor Gray, you are essentially defying this shutdown. What are you doing to keep the district running?

MAYOR VINCENT GRAY (D), DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Well, first of all, we have a contingency reserve that we've established that has about $130 million in it we can use to tide us over in the meantime. The District of Columbia has a very strong financial position. What people hopefully will understand through all this is we raise our own money.

We raise $6 billion a year from the taxes paid by the taxpayers of this city. In addition to that, we contribute between $3.5 billion and $4 billion in taxes to the federal government. So we don't operate really any differently than a state does. It's absolutely absurd we are subjected to a shutdown when the federal government chooses to do these things.

BALDWIN: I hear you on the contingency fund, $130 million or so to tide you over. Who knows how long this thing could go, could be days, weeks? Given that variable, Mr. Mayor, are you on a slippery slope legally speaking here?

GRAY: Well, we'll see. We think we have got enough dollars to last for, I don't know, 15 or 16 days. In the meantime, we're going to work with the Congress to try to get the District of Columbia exempt from this. There's no credible argument that anyone can make that this city should be caught in the shutdown. There's no reason for it.

BALDWIN: What's the feedback you've gotten from some of those workers who are essential, according to you today?

GRAY: Our workers are absolutely ecstatic. They recognize, of course, that the city shouldn't be involved in this, and they are glad that we have stood up and made the case on their behalf, on behalf of the entire city. What a lot of people don't understand, Brooke, is we have more people in the city, 632,000 people who live in the city, more than the state of Wyoming, more than the state of Vermont.

We're not a small jurisdiction. We're 33,000 employees who work for the district government because we're a state, county, city, and school district all rolled into one. Again, we don't get our money any differently than other states do.

BALDWIN: You point out that the populous of the District of Columbia is also the largest concentration of federal workers and contractors in the United States. In reading up on the economic forecast, if you will, with this federal government shutdown, the district could lose $200 million a day.

I was reading my "Washington Post," and they quoted the director of the George Mason University Center for Regional Analysis. He said, this is serious, the national economy may not notice the shutdown much unless it lasts three or four weeks, but for the Washington area, this is a tsunami.

Mayor Gray, you are running now. You say maybe you could go to day 15, 16 with your contingency fund. At what point does the tsunami truly hit you?

GRAY: Well, for us, we probably will lose. Our economy will bleed about $5 million or $6 million a day. Obviously, we don't want that to happen. We have gone through a painstaking process to develop and approve a budget for the city. I submitted a budget to the council of our city back in March. They went through a painstaking process of 56 days of hearings, discussions.

They eventually approved the budget. We have a budget that is balanced on the basis of the revenues principally that we are generating that was ready to go October 1st. So, yes, we certainly don't look forward to losing the dollars that will be impacted in terms of our economy.

But at the same time, it's time for people to recognize that we are not a part of the federal government. We're not a federal agency. We're not the Department of Health and Human Services, agriculture, defense, or anything else.

BALDWIN: Yes, Mayor Vincent Gray, we will be watching. We will be counting the days along with you. Thank you, sir, so much for your time.

GRAY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, as far as the shutdown goes, some couples hoping to get married this week in national parks like the Grand Canyon have been told, sorry, no park for you. Go with plan "B." We're going to talk live with one of those couples. There they are. I'm going to guess they're a little angry. We'll chat next.

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BALDWIN: You know the deal by now, Congress can't get their act together. The government is closed today. Many Americans are having to cancel travel plans all across the country, but Congress is also to blame for ruining weddings, yes, weddings. Twenty four couples who had plans to get married at government-run sites, sorry, you have to make those changes. You got to go with plan "B." Hopefully you have a plan "B."

That includes this couple here, Genevieve Jeuck and her fiance, Michael Sallemi, from New Jersey. So welcome, you two. Congratulations. No matter what, congratulations on wherever you tie the knot.

So first, let me just begin. I imagine you have your guests set. The flights are paid for, hotel rooms. You had plans to be at the Grand Canyon. That has changed. Are you angry?

GENEVIEVE JEUCK, CANCELED DESTINATION WEDDING DUE TO SHUTDOWN: Gosh, well, I've been going through a lot of different emotions at this time. It's been all over the place. I got the call Thursday night. I cried. I was freaking out. Then I thought I was turning into a bridezilla or something like that.

I had to make all new plans on Friday. So I even -- at my job, my boss was so kind. He let me take the day to figure out what we were going to do, but it was just absolutely exhausting. And we're still kind of unsure of what we're doing. I mean, we think we know, but we're not sure.

BALDWIN: What are you thinking?

JEUCK: Well, OK, so we have a planner in Sedona. He's been amazing. They're very flexible. It's been really wonderful. You know, we were waiting until the last minute to try and, you know, find out whether or not this was going to happen. Then, you know, by yesterday we just said, before we were leaving, we said, no, we have to go with plan "B." Plan "B" is merry-go-round rock in Sedona, which I think is really gorgeous.

BALDWIN: I hear it's lovely this time of year. Michael, what's the toughest part of all this been for you?

MICHAEL SALLEMI, CANCELED DESTINATION WEDDING DUE TO SHUTDOWN: All the time and planning. I wanted to see the Grand Canyon, wanted to get married on the edge of the Grand Canyon. That was our dream for a while. We put in the order for the permit a long time ago and just the fact that we're being told that we can't use a park in our own country for us to get married. It's one of our national treasures. We can't even see it.

JEUCK: We've been joking that the government's going to put a tarp over top of it or something so we can't see it. Like, really? They'll pay $8 million for a tarp to cover.

BALDWIN: I appreciate the sense of humor. Let me end with this from both of you. If you had a member of Congress -- really, this goes both ways. Whatever side of the political aisle, what would you say to him or her? SALLEMI: That's easy for me. If I don't perform at my job, I don't get paid, and I'm held to a high standard at my job. If I don't perform, then I wouldn't be there for a long time. I've been at my job for a very long time. So I think that should go and hold true for other people. You should be held to a high standard and perform for what you're getting paid for.

JEUCK: Yes, don't put 800,000 people out of work because you can't make a decision, you know, and then all of the people that have had to find new hotels. All the Grand Canyon hotels were booked, you know, I can't imagine what those people are going to do. We caught it early, you know.

BALDWIN: Not fun.

JEUCK: Not at all.

BALDWIN: I haven't done it, but, you know, I imagine it's not where you tie the knot but who you're tying it with. Good luck to both of you, seriously.

JEUCK: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We'll be talking to a House Republican at the top of the hour. I'll ask them about that whole getting paid thing. I can assure you of that. Thanks very much, you two. Congratulations.

JEUCK: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: On their point, that's the thing, Congress is still getting paid during this shutdown. Does that make sense to you? I will talk live with one Republican congressman who says is lawmakers should give up their paychecks.

Plus, today is the first day for Obamacare sign up, got a little rough. There are some glitches, technical problems. We will cover it all for you just ahead.

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