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Government Shutdown; Interview With Missouri Congressman Jason Smith

Aired October 01, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hour two, I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special live coverage of the first government shutdown in 17 years. Right now, both sides aren't talking. They are attacking one another. The nation's largest employer, the federal government, has just told almost 800,000 employees to go home.

And if this furlough of nonessential staffers lasts, the economy could take a serious hit, losing $1 billion -- that's billion with a B. -- a week, according to some economists.

And the latest hit, the Air Force vs. Navy football game may be postponed, folks. It's a sold-out game. In fact, all intercollegiate at the service academies, West Point, Navy, et cetera, that could all be canceled. This is really just the beginning. It could end in an instant if Congress could pass this spending bill.

You know this whole deal here, the divide. Senate Democrats, they want to pass this bill to fund the government. House Republicans, there are even factions within those groups. They want the same thing but with the provision to somehow stop Obamacare, the signature piece of legislation from the president, this health reform law.

But after four votes and now 16-plus hours, 15-plus hours of a shutdown, no significant progress toward a resolution. I want you to listen here to President Barack Obama, who spoke just a couple hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: They will say it was the mean old Republicans or the Tea Party or FOX News or maybe even George W. Bush.

They shut down the government, and now they're praying the American people will think somebody else is responsible. They're doing this because they'd rather see the government shut down than do anything to protect the American people from the consequences of Obamacare, despite the stories we see every single day about the pain this law is causing all of our constituents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Mitch McConnell, Republican senator from Kentucky. We're going to play you some sound from the president in just a minute. But let's go to Washington.

And let me talk to Congressman Jason Smith, a Republican from Missouri.

So, Congressman, welcome. Thank you for taking the time.

You know, I want to just begin with the news. I know you were part of this closed-door meeting with House Republicans here. We're learning that you all are considering now piecemeal bills, piecemeal votes to fund the government. Can you give me sort of the back story? Why this strategy?

REP. JASON SMITH (R), MISSOURI: You know, Brooke, thanks for having me on.

First and foremost, right now, it is the urgency of the House Republicans to open government up. We're trying every aspect we can to get the House Democrats -- the Senate Democrats and the president to actually just work with us and negotiate. We have sent four different proposals over to the Senate, and they continue to table the motion.

The last one last night in the early morning hours, we asked to go to conference and just to get to the middle to actually negotiate common ground. They refused to negotiate. You know, I'm the newest member in Washington, D.C., as a member of Congress. Where I come from in Missouri, we actually believe you cooperate with people. It's so unfortunate the government is closed, but we need to get our job done.

BALDWIN: OK. I'm not going to get into the machinations of negotiating there on the hill. But let me just cut right to it, because a lot of Americans are irked. I just talked to this couple. They can't get married in the Grand Canyon because of you, because of Congress.

So one of their issues is, hey, give up your salary. You should not be paid. I know, Congressman, you're actually offering, you know, to give up your salary. What would you do with that money?

SMITH: You know, I totally agree with those people. It's about fairness. Where I come from, people get the job done and then they get paid for the job that they have done. We have not finished and accomplished our job by passing a budget up here. And I have called for the House administrator to withhold my salary. What I will do with that salary for the days that we have lapsed in appropriations is to give it back to the Treasury, where it belongs.

BALDWIN: Let me take it a step further, because a lot of members of Congress are fairly affluent, so maybe this wouldn't be too big of a deal if they're giving up their own salaries for, say, a week. What about all the perks you all get, the cars, the travel to and from D.C.? Would you be willing to give that up?

SMITH: You know, absolutely. Washington politicians should not be treated any differently than any other American. That's what people are fed up with. That's one of the last proposals we sent over to the Senate, is to say, whoever -- you know, all Washington politicians, Congress, the president, the vice president, every member of leadership, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, should have to fall into the same requirement of any other American when it comes to Obamacare.

For some reason, they decided to exempt themselves. But if they want this program so much, they should be able to stand up and be the first ones to sign up to be a part of it.

BALDWIN: Congressman Jason Smith, thank you very much for your time today.

And, as promised, President Obama this afternoon, here he was talking specifically about the government shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They demanded ransom just for doing their job.

And many representatives, including an increasing number of Republicans, have made it clear that had they been allowed by Speaker Boehner to take a simple up-or-down vote on keeping the government open with no partisan strings attached, enough votes from both parties would have kept the American people's government open and operating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: One senator says he expects today's government shutdown to last anywhere from one to 21 days, 21 days. In fact, that's how long that monster impasse that began in December of '95 continued to January of '96. That is how that long that lasted.

That was the last time the federal government closed its doors to many of those offices.

Two voices I want to bring in here, first, a journalist who covered that stalemate 17 years ago. He is John Decker. He's now White House correspondent at SiriusXM radio. And also with me, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Welcome to both of you.

John, let's begin with one of the biggest differences here between then and today, social media. You have these members of Congress. I know they're meeting and they're apparently talking about things behind closed doors. But they're also really airing their grievances in 140 characters or less compared to 17 years ago.

JOHN DECKER, SIRIUSXM RADIO: Yes, obviously social media didn't exist 17 years ago. There was no Twitter, no Google, no Facebook.

I think that's one of the advantages that members of both parties have in terms of reaching out to their constituents, trying to get some sort of action or perhaps inaction as it relates to the stalemate that's going on. You also have some other differences as well, Brooke. That, of course, has to do with this extraneous issue that's been brought to bear with this particular government shutdown. Back in '95 and '96, it was all about budgetary issues. It was all about spending. This time around, you have this additional issue being brought to bear by Republicans in the House particularly involving the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

BALDWIN: Right.

And, Gloria, the president's been crystal clear. He's not giving any ground on this signature achievement, this piece of legislation. So how -- you know, we have heard the reporting. I just talked to a Republican congressman who was in the meeting saying their latest strategy, if you will, is the piecemeal bills to keep parts of the government up and running. Is that part of this exit strategy for John Boehner here and his House Republicans?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think they're looking for an exit strategy. Jay Carney kind of dismissed it for lack of seriousness.

I think it's unlikely that that's going to be anything that Democrats would accept. Look, I think what's interesting about this is that John Boehner, the speaker of the House, was dragged into this strategy. I don't know if he was kicking and screaming, but he might have been, because what he wanted to do was talk about spending in terms of the next crisis that's coming up on the debt ceiling.

But he was prevailed upon by one part of his caucus, the conservative part of his caucus, to do this. And they have now done this. They are now in it. I talked to one senior House Republican last night, and I said, OK, what's the exit strategy, what's the endgame? He said, I honestly don't know.

This is incredibly, to me, looking at it, it's kind of they're figuring it out as they go along. This is really ad hoc. We could see a few more volleys or not. I just -- it's very hard to tell right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Flashing back, John, to 17 years ago, the then-Speaker Newt Gingrich, then President Bill Clinton, he ultimately was reelected. I want you to compare the then and the now, the intransigence, the brinksmanship.

DECKER: What has struck me is there's a photograph in "The Wall Street Journal" today in the A section and the photograph is in December of 1995 during the midst of the government shutdown. It has House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore in the Oval Office actually talking to one another about the issues before them.

We haven't seen a picture like that yet, Brooke. It sounds to me just based upon the rhetoric we heard today, which is very similar to the rhetoric we heard back in 1995 and '96, extortion, blackmail, that type of thing, it doesn't seem like that kind of picture, that kind of photo-op will happen any time soon.

BALDWIN: John Decker and Gloria Borger, thanks to both of you.

DECKER: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And starting today, millions of Americans are eligible for new health insurance coverage as part of the Affordable Care Act. But as with anything new, especially technologically speaking, it doesn't come without its glitches.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Consider that just a couple weeks ago Apple rolled out a new mobile operating system. And within days, they found a glitch. So they fixed it. I don't remember anybody suggesting Apple should stop selling iPhones or iPads or threatening to shut down the company if they didn't. That's not how we do things in America. We don't actively root for failure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here to walk us through some of those glitches, CNN's Tom Foreman.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Tom, what have you -- I hear you laughing. What have you found?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This isn't exactly the iPhone. I will tell you that.

(LAUGHTER)

FOREMAN: Obamacare hoped to launch with a bang this morning. It's been more like a sputter.

Look at all these states all across the nation where they have had some kind of problem with the Web sites as people try to look into and sign up for this program, all the states we have put in red here. Some of our producers checked out these systems. In New York, they got a message that said the system was suffering from an internal server error.

In Maryland, they said there were connectivity problems. The Web site was not available. They had problems in New Mexico and in Washington. Look at this. The whole screen froze and the state actually had to shut it down for troubleshooting.

Still, our team got through fine in Kentucky, Iowa, Connecticut, other places. While these problems were widespread, they do not appear to be universal, Brooke. Some people will get through in some places. Others may not, the sort of normal glitches there. The federal government is handling enrollment for 36 states, which have either opted out of Obamacare or haven't fully established their insurance marketplaces. This is the message that many people saw in places like that. They saw when they tried to get to the federal Web sites, health insurance marketplace, please wait. We have a lot of visitors on our site right now, we're working to make your experience here better. Please wait until we send you to the log-in page. Thanks for your patience.

The president also pointed out they had about one million people before 7:00 in the morning trying to do this. So none of this is particularly unexpected. It's a massive and complicated system. The president did say glitches would occur and the Department of Health and Human Resources issued a statement saying, we built a dynamic system and we're prepared to make adjustments.

At least as of now, it looks like a good many adjustments may have to be made, even though it's just the first day. You have got six months to sign up, so a complicated system, a lot going on. Not the iPhone, but they're trying to get there.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Tom Foreman, thank you very much.

I know a lot of you, you don't really understand the Affordable Care Act. That's what surveys show. A lot of Americans are still sort of scratching their heads over there. You see the numbers here in this new CNN/ORC poll. This is out this morning, shows only 17 percent believe that Obamacare will help their families. Four out of 10 Americans say they will be worse off under Obamacare. Another 41 percent say they will be more or less the same.

Let's go. Let's hit the road with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent, who is in Greenville, South Carolina, today.

A fifth of that state, Sanjay, lacks health insurance. Run me through the basics here. How does the Obamacare marketplace Web site work? We have already touched on the glitches. How does the Web site work? What kind of coverage can people get?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, once you get there, and as you point out, it could take a little longer than some expected, what you will see is you will go to the Web site, healthcare.gov. You pick your state.

And then from there, you're going to have to apply and register within the site. What that is, is basically a three-page application, Brooke, which I think is most notable for what it doesn't have vs. what it does. The thing you're not going to be asked about on this three-page application is anything about your health history.

Go figure, right? This is health insurance we're talking about. You're not asked about your health history because it doesn't matter with regard to what you're going to be charged for premiums. That's the crux of the issue, really, this idea that you don't get discriminated against for a preexisting condition.

But, after that, you have these tiers of programs, which by the way a lot of people have seen before. You will just have to think about this in terms of what your needs are. The bronze programs, that means you're going to pay the lowest premium, but have the highest co-pays and highest deductible. Platinum is just the opposite. They have the highest premiums and the lowest co-pay and lowest deductible.

So, very simply put, if you think you're going to go to the doctor a lot, you're going to utilize a lot of medical services, you probably want the pay the higher premiums and then get the lower co-pays so you don't get dinged as much each time you go, and just the opposite if you don't think you're going to go to the doctor as much.

Again, that may sound confusing, but we all have gone through this probably with open enrollment. But keep in mind a lot of people that are trying to get on this Web site today, trying to do this, they have never done this before. They haven't had insurance. They haven't had doctors. This is all brand-new to them.

BALDWIN: And as, you know, you and Tom Foreman have pointed out, listen, there's time to figure this out, six months. Six months is a lot of time, Dr. Sanjay Gupta in Greenville, South Carolina.

Sanjay continues to hit the road with the CNN Express bus, rolling into Lexington, Kentucky, tomorrow, where Sanjay will look at how this Affordable Care Act affects people who already have insurance. That's tomorrow.

Coming up, as our special coverage continues, we have reporters spanned out across this country watching this impact unfold live. Want to begin with Poppy Harlow in New York -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Brooke. People down here, tourists very upset. Statue of Liberty one of 400 national parks closed. That means tens of thousands of people out of work. We're going to bring you their story coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Look, but don't touch. That's the new rule at the Statue of Liberty here, one of the 401 national parks closed because of this federal shutdown.

In many states, the parks are the most visible sign of the shutdown, but, obviously, not the only way it's being felt. Federal workers are looking at an unpaid vacation. Who knows how long all this will last.

And let's remember, every day of the shutdown, it costs the economy $300 million.

So let's begin in New York with Poppy Harlow, where tourists, I'm sure, are getting frustrated. And Erin McPike is covering the reaction from federal workers who might be getting a long and unwelcome vacation.

But, Poppy, let's begin with you there. How angry are tourists?

HARLOW: They're angry. I mean, I can't tell you how many I ran into this morning from a family from Australia to a guy here from London for his birthday that had come to see the Statue of Liberty. Unfortunately, we were the bearers of bad news. We had to tell them it's closed. They said, why? I said, government shutdown. They were scratching their heads. How could this happen?

I'm going to play you some sound from them in a moment, but I have to tell you, I spent yesterday out on Liberty Island. They see four million tourists a year, 20,000 a day in peak season, $17 a ticket. You get the idea. A lot of money is coming into the government through these national parks, $450,000 a day, actually. Now the government is losing out on that revenue because the government has shut down and all these parks are closed.

What I have also found is that it's really hurting the other businesses, the peripheral businesses down here in Lower Manhattan, like the tour bus operators that all rely on people to come because of the Statue of Liberty. Listen to what some of them told me today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's killing our business down here.

HARLOW: It's killing your business?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it's killing our business down here.

HARLOW: Already?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the people are not coming. The Statue of Liberty is shut down. I don't know why the government is doing that, because this is part of our business. This is what we do daily. The people are not coming, so we're not selling tickets. We're not making money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit disappointed. I'm not really -- I don't really understand what's going on and why it's closed.

HARLOW: So the U.S. government, it shut down. And that's why it's closed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HARLOW: What do you think of that looking from an outside perspective?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very surprised. Obviously, this is (INAUDIBLE) the number one country in the world and obviously the most democratic. Obviously, things like this probably would not go on in Europe as much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So that gives you a taste for it, Brooke.

I do have to say that some of the workers on the island that are not federal employees, they work for the concession stands, the cleanup crews, they rent the audio tours, they have no chance of getting paid. Even if Congress approves back pay for the federal workers, they told me these are hourly jobs and every day we're not working, we are not getting a paycheck and we can't pay our rent after a few days. This is a very, very big problem for all the folks down here.

BALDWIN: You are so right about those peripheral businesses. Poppy Harlow for us, Poppy, thank you.

HARLOW: Yes.

BALDWIN: And just imagine your boss telling you, go home, and when Congress stops bickering, you can come back to work. And, oh, by the way, your pay, well, maybe you get it, maybe you don't. Fun times. Being facetious. A fun time for federal workers.

CNN's Erin McPike covering that for us in Washington.

And one of my dear, dear girlfriends texted me today. She said, hey, I work in the Department of Education. I was just told to go home. But she said, look on the bright side, it's really beautiful out.

(LAUGHTER)

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke. That's what we have heard from a few people, too, but, by and large, I found much of the same thing that Poppy found up in New York. People are really frustrated and disappointed and confused.

Now, most of the time here in Washington, federal workers don't really like to talk to the media because they're afraid they will get in trouble for doing so. But today when people got to work, they signed furlough notices by 10:00 and they started streaming out of some of the buildings that you see here behind me. They came right up to us and wanted to talk to us about how angry they were.

One woman described to me what it's been like the past couple of years with this brinksmanship and the threat of these government shutdowns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA ANDERSON, FAA: People have, you know, children in college, they have things they have to get paid. We have been on a emotional roller coaster, government employees, for a while, I would say for the past year. It's been an emotional roller coaster, up and down. A lot of people just finished furloughs from the sequestration, and their funds were cut short. They were (INAUDIBLE) some people.

And now here we go again. So it's just -- it just -- it seems to be a vicious cycle that government employees are in right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now, Brooke, another guy came out of the building this morning, and he was so angry, he said he was going to walk straight to the Capitol Building to talk to his congressman. It's just about five blocks down that way. Others are telling us that they're working paycheck to paycheck, really. Some people said they don't know how to pay child support or they don't know how to pay their mortgages. Yes, people are very upset. Here's one of these furlough notices. It basically says they can't touch any of their equipment other than to see their BlackBerry for status updates.

But if they use their equipment for any other purposes, they could be penalized, Brooke. It's really a tough situation here in Washington.

BALDWIN: Oh, wow. So essentially put those BlackBerrys down and wait until Congress gets their act together. Then you get to come back to work.

Erin McPike, thank you. I hear the frustration in Washington. At the same time, have you seen these pictures? Veterans, they are removing the barricades themselves there this morning at the World War II Memorial. You hear the cheers, despite the government shutting down. We will play that video for you.

Plus, in this debate over the shutdown, many Republicans are at odds with their own party. So coming up next, I will talk to two conservatives. Ben Stein says Republicans should move on. And columnist Emily Miller says they should keep fighting.

More of CNN's special coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Even on the brinksmanship, the intransigence in Congress may not seem patriotic, but there was plenty of patriotism this morning at the World War II Memorial.

You just have to see these pictures here, because you have these United States veterans. These folks are from Mississippi showing up in D.C. They didn't let the shutdown stop them. Crowds are cheering because what they're doing here is physically removing the barricades so they can see that beautiful memorial.

And at least one Republican lawmaker was appalled that it was closed to begin with and placed blame on the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: This is -- to barricade an open-air monument when you know that there are honor flights that have been chartered that are wheels up, and they're going to come to this town and they're going to say, how can we intercept them? Let's put some extra people on the ground and use some resources to lock people out of an open-air monument. That's a White House decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This shutdown, it is not just about Democrats vs. Republicans. I have seen the phrase civil war. This is a civil war brewing within the Republican Party, this battle between lawmakers who prefer to pick their battles and these Tea Party politicians with this take-no-prisoners attitude.

So let's talk both sides here. We're joined now by a pair of conservatives. Emily Miller is senior editor of opinion for "The Washington Times," and author of the new book "Emily Gets Her Gun." And Ben Stein, economist, author, former speechwriter for President Richard Nixon.

Great to see both of you here.

Ben Stein, let me begin with you here as a conservative, you know, working in the Nixon White House, yet you say that there is no point to what the Republicans are doing right now. Why?

BEN STEIN, FORMER NIXON SPEECHWRITER: Well, because we Republicans started out the idea of universal health care. We Republicans in 1973 sent a message to Congress asking for universal health care. It was killed by Edward Kennedy for no good reason.

It's a perfectly good idea. There are glitches in the implementation. Let's get them fixed. Or if the plan is so bad that it's going to bring down the whole government and the whole country, let's put it into effect and let it ruin the Democratic Party for generations. But let's not shut down the government. The government does lots of vital functions. The government is full of perfectly good, hardworking, decent people.

Let's not shut down the government. The law was passed. It was approved by the Supreme Court. I don't agree with the law at all, but let's have it go into law the way the Constitution says. And if it's going to be a bad thing, let it be good for the Republican Party.

BALDWIN: Emily Miller, you disagree.

EMILY MILLER, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": I agree with him that the law is terrible.

But this is where you have the divide, is that the conservative more Tea Party Republicans -- this is largely started by Senator Ted Cruz of Texas -- say we have very little leverage here. We control one- half of one-third of the government, and we don't want to see Obamacare get implemented, which is happening today. So let's do what we can. What we can do is stop the spending. So let's stop the spending and leave some leverage to negotiate.

Unfortunately, Obama says, I'm not negotiating. The House Republicans keep sending over spending bills with some modifications to Obamacare, whether it's taking out the tax or putting it off for a year, and it keeps getting rejected or the White House issues a veto threat. Everything went into effect today. The question is, is, what can the Republicans sort of salvage out of this?

BALDWIN: Well, in terms of salvaging here, right, so, we have this shutdown. And who knows how long this will last. We know the latest reporting is that the House Republicans are proposing maybe this -- you know, piecemeal bills to -- to fund parts of the government.