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Rep. Marsha Blackburn Talks Boehner's Clean Bill, Shutdown, Debt Ceiling; Cyber Security Concerns During Shutdown; Tropical Storm Karen Threat; Wedding Couple Sends Message to Congress

Aired October 04, 2013 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It's day four of the government shutdown. While debate seriously continues over what Congress should do, there's another deadline looming. We're talking about the debt ceiling. The deadline, according to the Treasury Department, October 17th, less than two weeks away. Yesterday, the House Speaker John Boehner told some Republicans that he would advance what's caused a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling without any strings attached, and that if he had to do that, he'd enlist Democrats to help him get that bill passed, including members of his own party. The stakes are enormous, he believes.

Let's discuss what's going on. The Tennessee Republican Congressman, Marsha Blackburn, is joining us.

Congresswoman, thanks very much for coming in.

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, R-TENNESSEE: Good to be with you. Thank you.

BLITZER: If these reports about what the speaker privately told some of his closest associates in the House are true, would you be with the speaker as far as allowing the debt ceiling to be raised to allow an up-and-down clean vote on that without any conditions attached?

BLACKBURN: Wolf, I think you're going to hear a lot of things over the next few days, whether it's the C.R. or the debt ceiling. I think most Republicans are in the frame of mind that what we want to do is a couple of things. We do not want to default on our debt. Number two, we believe it is imperative that we get the out-of-control spending in Washington under control. And we have put a lot of effort and energy too into that. I think you're going to see people remain committed to that.

What our total debt package is going to look like, I don't know. I don't think anyone has the final combination of what it's going to be. But there are an awful lot of us that would like to see tax and entitlement reform, stabilization for Medicare and Social Security programs. And we want to continue working through this process of the C.R. so that we have a funding mechanism for this year's budget. Maybe they all get rolled together, I don't know, but as we go through the next days, I think that that is going to become much more clear to all of us what track we're going to take.

BLITZER: Are those conditions you would attach to a vote in favor of raising the debt ceiling?

BLACKBURN: I wouldn't -- no, I wouldn't --

BLITZER: Formal conditions or are you ready to just vote in favor of it without all those?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I mean, those are important issues that you raise, obviously.

BLACKBURN: They are important issues.

BLITZER: I know you want to get it through. But is the raising the debt ceiling the vehicle that you want to use to get who is it issues on the agenda?

BLACKBURN: I think it's imperative that we look at all of our spending issues when we are looking at the debt ceiling. You know, we have the ability to raise revenue through taxation. People are not willing to be paying more in taxes. What they are wanting to see is less spending and more prioritization on the items of importance for the federal government. They are so tired of waste, fraud and abuse in the system of spending. They're tired of stimulus and bailouts that don't work. And they continue to say to us, please, address the fiscal responsibility issues of this nation. Now, whether it's a budget, a C.R., a debt ceiling, it is incumbent upon us as being stewards of the people's money to address these issues. And as all of these issues are converging and coming in front of us, we are continuing to say, this is the list our constituents -- when I'm home in Tennessee, when I'm meeting with my small business owners, when I'm meeting with large employers --

BLITZER: Right.

BLACKBURN: -- they continually talk about the importance of fiscal responsibility for this nation.

BLITZER: I just want to be precise. If the legislation that Boehner might put on the House floor simply says the Congress is going to raise the debt ceiling and none of these other matters are included in that resolution, but I assume you would vote nay. You would not vote to raise the debt ceiling. Is that what I'm hearing?

BLACKBURN: I wouldn't want to do that because I think the people of this nation are expecting us to review the spending processes of this country and begin to get it under control. $17 trillion worth of debt and the clock is ticking on that. Obamacare, being a $2.6 trillion program, going to add another $1.75 trillion worth of debt over the next decade, at least, at minimum. You know, when you look at all of this, Wolf, it is not fair to our children and grandchildren for people who are elected today to just --

BLITZER: I understand all the points you're making.

BLACKBURN: -- kick this can down the road. BLITZER: Congressman, I understand those points you're making. But do you fully appreciate what a lot, almost all economists say would be the results of a failure to raise the debt ceiling?

BLACKBURN: Absolutely, I would fully appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKBURN: I fully appreciate it. And the reason we continue -- the reason we continue to have a debt ceiling debate is because we do not get the spending under control. If we want to get America back on an economic growth agenda, what we are going to have to do is look at these issues and get to the root cause of it. You know, Wolf, we can --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Those are fair points but you're not going to do it in -- you're not going to do it in 13 days. You know, these are issues that are going to take awhile.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKBURN: If we haven't done it in 13 years, maybe we need 13 days to make us do it. Maybe --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: If you can do all that that whole agenda in 13 days, you're a much better legislator than I.

BLACKBURN: What if we were to agree to set a framework for that. We want solutions

BLITZER: If you can do that. If you --

BLACKBURN: We didn't want a government shutdown. We wanted solutions. We wanted the Senate to work with us on the budget, on the C.R., on the debt ceiling. We want them to work with us on getting this out of control spending under control.

BLITZER: Well, you've heard the president -- I've got to wrap it up. But you just heard the president say he wants to negotiate. He wants to work with you on all of these --

BLACKBURN: Come on down.

BLITZER: -- all of these issues. But not --

BLACKBURN: I'll bake him cookies.

BLITZER: But he says, in his words, and I'll be precise, "not with a gun held to our heads," as far as that debt ceiling is concerned.

BLACKBURN: We are greeting him with open arms and an invitation. We have been hopeful that, on behalf of the American people and future generations, he would agree to sit with us at a negotiating table and that he would agree to work these issues out.

BLITZER: OK.

BLACKBURN: He is the commander-in-chief. He is the leader of this nation. It is his responsibility to be someone who is going to lead this debate about how we preserve fiscal responsibility, get back on the road to physical responsibility in this nation. We cannot continue to spend ourselves into oblivion.

BLITZER: Marsha Blackburn, making her point.

BLACKBURN: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens.

I'll leave you with this thought because we keep hearing, and it's true, the deficit spending has been cut in half since the president came. It was enormous --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKBURN: Because of the Budget Control Act the Budget Control Act, the Budget Control Act in 2011.

BLITZER: Annual deficit spending has been cut in half over the past five years.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKBURN: It's a huge Republican victory.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKBURN: Let's get behind it and do more.

BLITZER: A lot more to go, but it's still been cut in half.

Marshall Blackburn, Republican from Tennessee.

BLACKBURN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for coming in.

We'll continue this conversation. And if they can resolve all these issues in the next 13 days, which I suspect they won't, but that would be excellent.

Appreciate it very much.

BLACKBURN: Sure. Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: So is the government shutdown a threat to national security? We're going to tell you why some analysts are deeply worried right now it could come back in the form of a cyber attack. We'll explain right after this.

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BLITZER: Another consequence of the government shutdown is reduced cyber security staff across federal agencies. The CIA and other likely targets such as the Defense Department have fewer eyes on the job right now as far as computer networks are concerned.

As Jim Sciutto explains, that means more vulnerabilities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The government may be shut down for you and me but, for cyber attackers, it is open, even more open for business. Adversaries from foreign governments to terror groups, as the former head of the CIA are almost certainly looking to take advantage.

MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I would have been anticipating this and saying, what is it we want to do against this adversary that's against us now? What is it that would be helped by doing it while they're shorthanded? What gives us a higher probability of success?

SCIUTTO: Many government agency's cyber teams are relying on skeleton crews to police attacks in cyber space pan a successful attack now could do damage even after full staffs return to work.

Tim Erling, a cyber expert who advises agencies across the government, explains how.

TIM ERLING, TRIPWIRE: What may happen as a result of the shutdown, that first incident which may have been detected with a full staff might be missed allowing a compromise to go deeper into an organization to get at more critical asset or critical data.

SCIUTTO: The other risk? While staff that monitor networks were still on the job, many staff who maintain them are not, meaning the networks with not being updated to monitor new kinds of cyber attacks. It could change by the second.

The shutdown comes as cyber attacks are transforming from spying on computer networks to destroying them.

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee says it's a serious concern across the intelligence community.

REP. MIKE ROGERS, (R-MI), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It's very concerning to me we would allow any part of our national security structure knowing what's coming at us every day, not just from cyber. None of that is going away. You can imagine our adversaries are trying to fill the hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: We asked a cyber security firm advising the government if the number of cyber attacks had increased since the shutdown started, and the answer we got was telling. We're told they simply don't have the staff to count. Right now, they're focused on defending against cyber attacks with fewer resources to keep the government's computer system safe -- Wolf?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jim Sciutto, thanks very much for that report. Pretty telling, indeed.

Tropical Storm Karen is taking aim at the gulf coast and it could hit land twice. We're going to tell you which states are potentially in the danger zone. That's next.

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BLITZER: Let's take another live look at the markets right now. The Dow in positive territory after a mostly down week. There you see, up about 57, almost 58 points. Right now, the big market mover today would likely have been the monthly jobs report, but with the Labor Department shut down, a lot of federal employees furloughed, that report is going to have to wait. During the last government shutdown, by the way, at the end of '95, early '96, major economic reports were released at this time.

Egyptian state media say at least one person died, 14 were injured in Cairo today after fighting broke out between security forces and supporters of Mohamed Morsy. Things had been relatively quiet for the past few weeks. There were clashes between pro and anti-Morsy group in at least two other Egyptian cities. Morsy was removed from office by the Egyptian military back in July.

The gulf coast is preparing for a major storm right now. The Tropical Storm Karen expected to hit land tomorrow night or Sunday, somewhere between southeastern Louisiana and the Florida Panhandle. Right now, Karen's winds are 50 miles per hour. But they could strengthen possibly, possibly becoming a category 1 hurricane by tomorrow. We're all over this story.

After years of ups and downs in their relationship, a couple reconciles and decides to tie the knot in Glacier National Park. Then, all of a sudden, came the government shutdown. You'll hear their message to Congress when we come back.

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BLITZER: Americans are voicing their frustration with the partial shutdown of the federal government. It certainly affects people's paychecks, it affects programs that provide education and health care. It also affects people's wedding plans. Listen to this letter written to Representative Ami Bera of California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. AMI BERA, (D), CALIFORNIA: Representative Bera, I realize you're not causing -- the cause of the looming shutdown, but I'm begging you to do everything in your power to keep the shutdown from happening. My wedding is literally going to be ruined if the shutdown happens, as we were to marry in Glacial National Park on October 13th. It's messing up so many people's lives just because elected people in Washington can't work together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You heard the couple. They want to get married on October 13th. Matt and Michelle Abriani were supposed to be married on that date back in the '90s but, because of various circumstances, their ceremony fell on February 13th. They had two kids, grew apart, they eventually got divorced. But unlike Congress right now, they have worked through their differences and they've gotten back together.

And I asked them about their back-up plan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT ABRIANI, WEDDING THREATENED BY SHUTDOWN: We're hoping that Congress, the president, can all work out their issues like we have. And to, you know, get a budget passed that we can all end up going into the parks. If not, we may be standing at the Glacial National Park sign saying "I do."

BLITZER: Outside, so that would be not as cool as actually being in the park.

Michelle, what's your message to the lawmakers here in Washington?

MICHELLE ABRIANI, WEDDING THREATENED BY SHUTDOWN: Well, what we would like for them to be able to do is to get a budget passed and to compromise, work together. He and I have been able to do so. I would think they would be able to. And to listen to the American people. It's really important, not just because of our marriage, but there are a lot of people who are out of work now because they're fighting amongst themselves and kind of letting their egos take control rather than listening to what the American people want. We want them to get it taken care of.

BLITZER: I know you wrote to your Congressman, Matt. Have you heard back from him?

MATT ABRIANI: Yeah, it was great to hear from Congressman Bera on Monday. He called me personally. Unfortunately, I was in a meeting and missed his call, but he left a lengthy message addressing our concerns and what he's going to try to do to correct this problem from what he can impact in Washington. And I got to see where he addressed our comments on the floor of the House on Tuesday. So it was really great to hear from him.

BLITZER: Matt and Michelle Abriani, congratulations. Let's hope you guys can get married in this national park and have a wonderful, wonderful life together.

Thanks so much for joining us.

MATT ABRIANI: Thank you very much.

MICHELLE ABRIANI: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Nice couple.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back, 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." Leon Panetta, the former defense secretary, the former director of the CIA, among my guests.

NEWSROOM continues after a quick break, with Don Lemon.

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