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U.S. Military Forces Strike in Libya And Somalia

Aired October 05, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news this hour on CNN is that there have been two big operations carried out across the ocean. Breaking news on CNN. One is that a group that claimed - that group that claimed responsibility for that deadly mall killing in Kenya that U.S. Special Forces went on a mission in Somalia to take one of their leaders out. The other one is a top al Qaeda operative has also been taken out, or has been taken out. At least the first person, we're not sure. They went on a mission.

The second person, the person in Africa here, in Libya has been taken out.

So, there are two operations going on.

We are talking about Abu Anas al-Libi. He has topped the most wanted list for years. In fact, he is the al Qaeda operative believed responsible for the 1998 bombing of the U.S. embassies. Again, may have been captured.

CNN's Barbara Starr is our Pentagon correspondent.

Barbara, update us on this story in Libya, please.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. Well, what I can tell you now is a senior U.S. official is telling CNN that al-Libi was captured and that it was indeed U.S. Special Operations personnel, a second mission in the last 24 hours who conducted what he's just calling a capture operation to get al-Libi, now in U.S. custody.

My colleague Evan Perez confirming some of these details as well, saying it is now likely that al-Libi will be brought to the United States for prosecution in his alleged role in the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in East Africa. They have brought other suspects to the United States in these similar matters to the federal court system in New York, which oversees these types of prosecutions.

The introduction of U.S. Special Operations forces on the ground in Libya is very significant because, of course, there is a functioning government there. It is not clear whether the government gave its permission or whether the U.S. forces, at the orders of the United States government, went in there completely covertly to capture this man without the permission of the host government of Libya.

A lot of tension in the last year, of course, since the attack at the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi and the Libyan government publicly making it clear it didn't want any U.S. forces there. Al-Libi, though, as you can see his picture, the U.S. has a $5 million award on him as major al Qaeda operative in Libya, been there some months and years now, said to have been behind the movement to set up an al Qaeda movement in Libya, probably to some extent, not thought to be directly involved in the Benghazi attack, but more an al Qaeda operative, someone who fled there when al Qaeda went on the run in the last several years. And it goes to what we have been talking about, al Qaeda morphing, dispersing itself, sending its people into other countries to establish new satellite organizations.

It looks now, tonight, like U.S. Special Forces were able to get him and again, we should be learning more in the coming hours about where he may be moving next -- Don.

LEMON: OK. So, you are reporting now, Barbara, that he has been captured?

STARR: Senior U.S. official tells me he has been. That he was captured by U.S. Special Forces in a capture mission. This is not an official announcement by the United States by any stretch. Evan and I working the phones talking to our sources, all indications are now that he is in U.S. custody and is somewhere overseas still at this hour.

LEMON: All right. Barbara, stand by. Barbara, we're going to need your help throughout the hour here on CNN.

I want to get to our national security analyst now, Peter Bergen, to talk about both of these operations.

Peter, let's start with Libya. In fact, if al-Libi has been captured, what does it mean for al Qaeda in Libya?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, it's obviously not good news for them.

But -- I mean, what would be interesting now, Don, to see is what happens with this guy. My guess is that relatively soon, we will see him show up in the district of New York to be arraigned. That's where he's been indicted. That indictment for his alleged involvement in the embassy is there. It's been there, you know, since '98. He basically has been on the run since before 9/11.

You know, the Obama administration doesn't want to put anybody through the Guantanamo system. They want to use the federal courts. We saw with Osama bin Laden's son who was picked up overseas that shortly after he was captured he was arraigned in Manhattan and he will stand trial there.

You know, the federal court in Manhattan has 100 percent conviction rate for terrorism offenses, unsurprisingly, if you think of where the location is. So, my guess is that this guy is going to have to get a pretty good defense lawyer.

LEMON: I want to read some of the information that we are just getting in, Peter, from the international unit. And then, you can comment on it.

If Barbara Starr is there as well, Barbara, feel free to comment.

Again, let me tell you the breaking news here. There have been two major operations that have been carried out today by U.S. Special Forces -- one in Somalia, one in Libya. They are going after top leaders of al Qaeda and also a top leader of al-Shabaab. Al-Shabaab, the one in Somalia, that is a group that's believed responsible for the attack on the mall in Kenya just a couple weeks ago.

The one that happened in Libya is Abu Anas al-Libi. He is the person who is believed responsible for the 1998 attacks on U.S. embassies.

So, Peter, as we go along here, reading from the international unit, a key al Qaeda, wanted for the bombings of U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998, has been captured by U.S. Special Forces in Tripoli. Abu Anas al-Libi was grabbed from the Libyan capital and these are new details. And what one of the officials describe as a, quote, "capture operation" from the Libyan capital. The U.S. operation was conducted with knowledge by the Libyan government. That's what a federal law enforcement official said.

Talk us -- talk us through that.

BERGEN: Well, Don, that latter detail is very interesting, because, you know, obviously, in the case of the Osama bin Laden raid, which was conducted in the Pakistani city and was a capture or kill operation, it was done without the Pakistani government and caused problems for already troubled U.S./Pakistan relationship that we haven't sought that permission. After all, these are sovereign countries and, you know, you are supposed to get permission to do these kind of operations. Obviously, the bin Laden case was exceptional.

But here, you've got the U.S. government getting permission from the Libyan government, which is a fragile governing body at the moment. But, nonetheless, the elected government of Libya and that's the right thing to do. That's, you know, it's interesting that that was the approach that was taken.

LEMON: So, listen, Peter, you know, we have been talking to Barbara as so astutely pointed out, talk about the criticism of the attack and not being able to get the suspects in Benghazi, Libya. Here it is 15 years after the attack and we are just now capturing this suspect. Would this lead people to believe that the criticism about Benghazi may be premature?

BERGEN: Well, you know, we -- there have been multiple people convicted in the embassy attacks in the sovereign district of New York in Manhattan. That happened, four of them were convicted before 9/11. It was a pretty large conspiracy. Everyone has al-Libi, the guy just captured played a role, an important sort of role surveying the target and the like.

So, you know, justice, you know, United States, you know, they didn't forget about somebody involved in an attack that killed more than 200 people, mostly Africans, a dozen Americans and they continue to, you know, pursue the lead that is exist to find people who have been indicted for these attacks.

So, I mean, when you think about Benghazi, you know, that's, you know, a little over a year ago. So, you know, President Obama has made it clear that, you know, justice will take place when it can happen.

LEMON: I want to read a little more to you from the international unit here and talk specifically about foreign policy and about protocol. As CNN first to reports back in September, 2012, a year ago, that al-Libi had been seen in Tripoli. That was according to Western intelligence sources, sources said that there was concern that al-Libi may have been tasked with establishing a network in Libya.

So, my question here, I'm getting to it, it's unclear whether Libya's government is aware of his presence. So what does that mean? What is the difference if Libya's government is aware or unaware of the presence of al-Libi?

BERGEN: Well, you know, I mean, Libya is still quite a chaotic country and the government doesn't really, it's not like the government of Switzerland. It's a -- there are multiple militias, hundreds of militias that haven't put their weapons down. There are al Qaeda groups or at least that subscribe to the al Qaeda ideology and the group behind the attack in Benghazi is called Ansar al-Shari, it doesn't really call itself al Qaeda, but it's a local jihadist group.

So, it's extremely plausible that the first time the Libyan government sort of found out that al-Libi was in Tripoli was when they were informed by the U.S. government. On the other hand, they may also have known that he was there and they just -- they've got bigger fish to fry and it's not the most important thing on their list of things to do. Basically, they have a real problem just controlling the country that they govern.

LEMON: All right, Peter Bergen, thank you very much. Stand by.

We are getting new information by the minute. Really, two breaking news stories. U.S. Special Forces carrying out two missions -- one in Libya, one in Somalia today -- going after top terrorists, a top terrorist lieutenant.

And we are following the breaking news story here. Again, getting new information as we speak on the air. We are going to regroup. We have correspondents in the region. Our national security analyst is on the line with us, our Pentagon correspondent is here as well.

We'll have new information for you on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The breaking news here on CNN, two operations being carried out but U.S. special forces one in Libya and one in Somalia, taking out I believe in one of them, a top lieutenant of al Qaeda and the other one, the Special Forces went after a top lieutenant of al Shabaab, not clear if they captured him out. We are hearing that the forces in Somalia had to retreat.

I want to get now to Jomana Karadsheh. She is on the line. She is joining from Amman, Jordan. She has covered Libya over the years and is following the sentiment on the ground there. She can speak to us about what is happening.

So, let's talk about Libya. Let's talk about al-Libi here. What is going on? What is the sentiment about his capture?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, first of all, Don, the news is starting to break in Libya now. For a few hours, there were rumors circulating that this might have happened. Only now is it really circulating in Libya. We can see that on social media.

And, of course, there's a lot of concern about Libyans about whether the repercussions and if there's going to be any sort of retaliation and you know, there are multiple violent, extremist groups, groups with affiliation to al Qaeda, that operate in Libya. They are concerned about what their reaction is going to be to the operation.

Now, as for al-Libi, just a year ago, we spoke to some Libyan government official and asked them if they knew that he was, if she was in Libya because CNN at the time had an exclusive reporting that al-Libi has returned Libya, somewhere between the end of the year 2010 and maybe the spring of the revolution there in 2011. But Libyan government officials said they were not aware of his presence in Libya. But we had e heard at the time from a western intelligence official he had been seen in Tripoli, but he was not in hiding anywhere in Libya.

Now, of course, a lot of concern right now, Don, about what this actually means. Did the Libyan government know about this? Did it happen at the consent of the Libyan government or not? Because the issue of sovereignty for this very weak, pro-Western Libya government is a very, very sensitive issue.

So, you know, the next 24 hours are ones we have to see what the reaction is going to be on the ground in Tripoli.

LEMON: All right. I want you to stand by, Jomana, and don't go away because I have more questions for you.

But I want to bring in CNN justice reporter Evan Perez.

You have been working this story on al-Libi all day. Talk about how the story came together.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER (via telephone): Don, it's -- all day we have been hearing reports there had been a capture in Tripoli. Some sensitivity as to when we could report this. We can now say that U.S. forces were the ones that grabbed them and the issue is, obviously, he is wanted in New York for the 19 -- involvement in the 1998 embassy bombings in Tanzania and in Kenya. And so, the question has always been, since the U.S. has known last year that he had suddenly arrived in Tripoli and was now essentially living out in the open, the question was always when can they grab him?

I talked to an official today who told me it was just an opportune moment. They knew where he was. They had the opportunity to grab him and they did. So, the question now is, when can they bring him to the justice and the U.S.? There's a $5 million bounty on his head from the U.S. government for some years now. And the intent is to put him on trial.

LEMON: OK, Evan, stand by.

I want to go back to Jomana.

Jomana, you talked about whether or not the Libyan government knew that al-Libi was possibly there and may come as early as 2010. Our first report was back in 2012 that he was possibly there in Libya. What does this mean -- what does it mean if we knew or not? What difference does it make, excuse me, if the government knew about al- Libi being there or not?

KARADSHEH: Well, I think this is a big issue for Libya here for this fragile government for their own credibility with their own people.

Now, of course, when it comes to the West, there is the concern about this growing terrorism we are seeing in Libya after the attack in Benghazi last year that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans. There's been a lot of concern about what sort of country Libya has turned into after the revolution. These al Qaeda affiliated groups that seem to have established a presence in the country and are able to attack Western interest, western targets in Libya, possibly outside the country.

So, there's been a lot of concern about that. It's no surprise, really, if the Libyan government did not know that. They have a lot on their plate. They are unable to control the security situation in the country and, you know, one other thing that comes up, Don, has been the Benghazi list of suspects. There's been a list of suspects that Libyans have not been able to detain any of those suspects involved in that attack on the U.S. consulate.

Some of the suspects are out. They are free. CNN was able to sit down and talk to one of these suspects in Benghazi, yet the Libyan government is unable or too weak to detain them. So, a lot of questions about how much the Libyan government can actually do to control these groups and the terrorists coming out of that country.

LEMON: OK. Jomana, thank you very much. Don't go anywhere.

I want to get back to Evan here.

But, again, I want to update the viewers that there have been two big operations that have been carried out by U.S. Special Forces. It's very important to our fight against terrorism. One of them is in Somalia where our U.S. Special Forces went up against a top lieutenant for al Shabaab. Al-Shabaab is a group that's believed to carry out the attack on the Kenyan mall just a couple of weeks ago. The fighting was so intense according to our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr that our Special Forces had to retreat and not exactly sure if they captured the top lieutenant.

The other was in Libya. In Libya, the person there, the suspect there is believed to be responsible for the 1998 bombings on U.S. embassies.

So, again, these are two operations that had played out. That is that suspect Abu al-Libi. He is believed to be captured, that's according to our reporting here.

Evan, with these two operations playing out, you are in Washington, you are the justice correspondent there, what is the reaction likely to be from Washington and how soon might we hear from someone in Washington?

PEREZ: Well, it's been a very tense day with different officials. They wanted to make sure the operations got off without and have the U.S. forces safely out of harms way before they could even discuss any of this. As I mentioned to you, we knew about them and we were holding back on some of this. Barbara Starr was reporting as was I today and finally we were able to, once we knew there was nobody else in harm's way we could go on air and say this.

But this is -- you know, al-Libi is a big one. Like I said, he has a $5 million bounty on his head. The U.S. has been wanting to have him, to bring him to justice here in the United States. And we're told that, you know, the Libyan government has been sensitive about the issue. But, you know, they were informed, I'm not sure how far ahead of time they were informed, but they were aware of this.

This has nothing to do -- al-Libi was not involved in the Benghazi attacks where the U.S. is looking for suspects in that case. And that one is a little more sensitive because the militias that the Libyan government depends on to help control Benghazi were involved in this. So, that's a sensitivity. There's a separate one from the al-Libi situation.

LEMON: All right. Evan, thank you very much. Stand by. Evan, stand by, Jomana as well as our correspondents who are in the region there as well.

We are following the breaking news here. Two major operations carried out by Special Forces overseas today.

CNN will be back right after this break with more on this breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Welcome back.

And for those of you just joining us, this is breaking news this hour. Two major U.S. military attacks in Africa.

Here is what CNN confirmed: U.S. Navy SEAL teams went on a mission in Somalia and tried to nab an al-Shabaab leader linked to the Kenyan mall attack. They had to withdrawal because they were under fire in a Somali town. We don't know what happened to the al Shabaab leader. We are digging on that.

Plus, we have this one as well. The al Qaeda operative responsible for the 1998 bombings on U.S. embassies may have been captured as well.

And Barbara Starr is reporting. She's saying according to high sources that she has, his name is Abu Anas al-Libi. He was been captured. Abu Anas al-Libi has been captured and he has topped the most wanted list for years. He joined al Qaeda soon after its founding. He is considered a senior member of al Qaeda.

I want to get to our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. She is following this as well, and so is our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson.

First to Barbara with the updated information. Barbara, what are you learning about both of these missions?

STARR: Well, what we know now is that al-Libi was captured by U.S. Special Operations forces in Libya. Very significant for them.

You can only imagine, they say it was an opportunity to grab him, probably not. Probably this is someone who was under surveillance by intelligence services for some time. The question now in Libya will be the reaction of the Libyan people and ensuring U.S. facilities and Western interests in Libya are secure if there is any adverse reaction on the Libyan street.

That is going to be a significant issue in the coming hours. They will want to ensure that Western embassies are secure. It was the Russians, indeed, that came under attack in Tripoli earlier and took some of their people out of that facility.

In Somalia, at the other end of Africa, U.S. Navy SEALs withdrew. They did come under significant attack. We are told they made what they are calling a prudent decision to withdraw rather than risk civilian casualties.

But make no mistake, where they went in Somalia is very rough territory. This is a stronghold of the al Shabaab network.

These people do not want to see foreign forces, let alone American forces on the ground. I think, Don, it is an extraordinary irony if you well.

We are here on October 5th. Yesterday, October 4th was the 20-year anniversary of the Black Hawk down incident, the battle for Mogadishu when so many U.S. forces lost their lives. And that became a very significant shadow on the U.S. military for so many years.

But I think the other issue to contemplate is why is this so important to Americans? Why are we talking about this in such detail tonight?

It is the growth of al Qaeda networks. These al Qaeda networks from Libya to Syria across North Africa through the horn in places where there are not strong governments. Al Qaeda movements are clearly on the rise -- growing ability to attack Western targets if not to launch attacks outside of Africa and into Europe or even America, potentially.

This is why it is so significant. This is why the U.S. and other intelligence services, other Special Forces units continue to go after the al Qaeda targets. They are on the rise. Their ability to attack is not as diminished as the U.S. would like it to be. That's a significant worry -- Don.

LEMON: OK, Barbara, don't go anywhere. As you know we are going to use you extensively on CNN until we're done covering this story.

I want to get to Nic Robertson. He is our senior international correspondent. He joins us now from London.

Nic, I have a question for you. Again, I want to reiterate, this is not CNN's reporting. There are reports that the operation in Somalia was unsuccessful. You heard Barbara saying they had to retreat because there was so much fire power.

But this is a stronghold for al Shabaab. What does it mean, if anything, that U.S. Special Forces had been able to penetrate a seemingly stronghold of al Shabaab?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing it seems to indicate is that there must been good, accurate intelligence on at least the person that the operation was designed to capture or kill, depending on the circumstances. Perhaps the level of fire power coming back is an indication that intelligence was incomplete in so much as there was a calculation on exactly how many operatives Al Shabaab or otherwise were there lying in wait. Their concern would also be that the possibility of a tip off or double agent, if you will, an entrapment type of situation.

This is already speculation at this time. But what it certainly indicates is that Al Shabaab is - sort of gone on the world stage a couple weeks ago in Nairobi and is now being taken extremely seriously and its growth and basis of operation in Somalia is coming under increased scrutiny and measures clearly being taken to limit that potential threat before it can grow bigger, before other plans can come into existence.

People, a leading figure close to Al Shabaab was killed around Mogadishu in the past couple years on his body was found, documents detailing specific attacks here in Britain. Complex attacks similar to that in the Westgate Shopping Mall in Kenya. So, this is an indication, really, that the threat that's been growing, if you will, under the radar to a degree in Somalia is now being confronted in a much more aggressive way. Don?

LEMON: Let's talk now about Libya, if you will. Abu Asan Al-libi now has been captured and is now in custody, in U.S. custody and will be perceivably brought back to the United States to face court, to face trial here.

ROBERTSON: And potentially provide a lot of valuable information, potentially on his associates inside Libya on the strength of Al Qaeda as it tries to grow in the north of Africa. We certainly are aware that there have been camps set up in the east of Libya in the past couple of years.

This goes back to the period when he was first seen to resurface in Tripoli, at least a year ago, potentially two years ago just as Moammar Gadhafi was being overthrown. We know that the Islamists in Libya have been getting stronger. Connections, of course, in Mali, the attack that was witnessed in Algeria as well as killing several foreign nationals working at a gas plant there. So it is not only facing justice for the 1998 attack on the U.S. embassies in Kenya, Tanzania, clearly he may have useful information about the strength of Al Qaeda and the islamists in Libya at this time.

He is somebody who is senior within Al Qaeda. He was well respected, a good operative. He have lived for awhile in Britain as recently as year 2000. An apartment he was living in then was raided. Documents were found there. Hundreds of pages. So called the Manchester Manual. His apartment was raided in Manchester in England.

These documents detail how to attack embassies, his belief to have fled back to Afghanistan at that time and possibly been sent by Amin Alzhaware (ph) the number one in Al Qaeda to go back with other individuals to Libya to set up camps and bases of operations. So all his recent years of activities are going to come under very, very close and important scrutiny. Don?

LEMON: Nic Robertson in London. Nic, stand by. Don't go anywhere. I'll need you throughout the evening here on CNN as well. For our viewers at home, this is breaking news this hour on CNN. Two major U.S. military attacks in Africa. CNN has confirmed U.S. Navy S.E.A.L.S team went on a mission in Somalia and tried to nab Al Shabab leader, possibly linked to that Kenya mall attack. The navy S.E.A.L.S had to withdraw because they were under fire in a Somali town, so much fire power, they had to withdraw. We do not know exactly what happened and we don't know if the Al Shabaab leader was actually captured.

Plus this, the Al Qaeda operative responsible for the 1998 bombings on U.S. embassies may have been captured as well. His name is Abu Al- Libi. He has topped the most wanted list for years. He joined Al Qaeda soon after its founding and is considered a senior member of Al Qaeda.

Our Pentagon correspondent will join us on the other side of the break as well as our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson as well as well as correspondents who are in the region. Don't go anywhere. Short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Two breaking news stories here on CNN. There have been two missions carried out overseas in our fight against terror. I want to get straight now to Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

Barbara, one of those missions was in Libya. The other one was in Somalia. Can you talk to me about the Somalian mission first because we are not exactly sure if the person they were going after, this high ranking member of Al Shabaab was captured.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Don. The Navy S.E.A.L.S. team that went into this town in southern central Somalia made a decision to leave before they could confirm that they killed the man they were going after. They certainly did not capture him. And we are told that they made what they are calling the prudent decision to withdraw from the town because they did come into what they're calling a very hostile environment.

They came under fire. It's not the case that a team of Navy S.E.A.L.S is going to get overwhelmed, they are going to be able to deal with whatever they come up against, but they are going to make a prudent decision to withdraw rather than engage in extended fights where they are going to have to engage what they believe to be a civilian population, hostile as it may be, regular Somalis who live in the area. They don't want to get involved in that. They don't want to really get into that kind of situation.

But I think it's important for people to understand, when Navy S.E.A.L.S went into this, when the special ops guys went into the situation in Libya, their tactics are such that they have plenty of back-up fire power. There would have been aircraft circling overhead to engage in bombing runs to ensure their safety, if they had to do that. There would have been other helicopters over head to extract them, to get them out of there fast, if it came to that.

We know this because we know that that is how the Bin Laden mission went. These are very standard tactics in these covert, high risk operations. So, this would have all begun in both cases with potentially weeks, if not longer of surveillance gathering intelligence, learning about the targets, learning who was there, planning the operation, going in, having the back-up power, if they needed it, then in the case of Somalia, making the decision that they were going to back out, they were going to get out of there, they were going to get out fast rather than engaging in an extended combat operation.

In Libya, it looks like they got Al-libi fairly quickly and he now is in U.S. custody. Don?

LEMON: OK. Barbara, stand by. I want to bring in now CNN military analyst Lt. Col. Rick Francono, joining me now on the phone from Eugene, Oregon. You have been watching the breaking news play out here on CNN. Of course, you have sources within the government as well. Talk to me about these special forces group, about these Navy S.E.A.L.S who are carrying out these missions.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONO, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, this is a classic operation for them. The raid in Somalia is perfect for them. It's on the coast, they can bring in all sorts of air and sea power support. And Barbara is exactly right. They went in there with enough fire power to do what they needed to do. The prudent decision part is the commander on the ground making the call that this is going to result in a lot of unnecessary damage and civilian casualties. They wanted to go in there, do to job and kill or capture the target and withdraw. Once the commander saw that was probably not possible without killing a whole lot of people and doing a whole lot more damage than was necessary, he made the decision to withdraw. So, we are not going to know what the final result is of this for some time. But this is what Navy S.E.A.L.S do. This was a perfect mission for them. And it looks like the commander on the ground made the decision to pull back before having to inflict a lot more casualties than necessary.

LEMON: You're talking about Somalia but the picture we have up is the Al Qaeda operative who is believed to have been captured in Libya. Can you talk to me about the operation there and what this means for the fight against terrorism now that this person has been captured? He will be coming to the United States and face trial here.

FRANCONA: Yes, there's a whole lot of issues this now raises. First of all, this is an excellent operation. From what I'm told, this was a combination of FBI, CIA and U.S. military forces doing a takedown in Tripoli. This was probably a well done, well executed and I would assume that there's a lot of cooperation from the Libyan government. They are going to have to get him back to the United States and now they are going to put him on trial.

This raises a lot of questions, Don. Is he going to be afforded all the rights of a U.S. citizen? Will he have access to legal counsel? What will his status be? We'll be allowed to interrogate him? Because I believe he's probably a gold mine of information. But how much of that are we going to be able to extract from him, you know, under the U.S. legal system? So, you know, this saga is just starting to unfold. But this is a major, a major get for the intelligence community and the U.S. special operations community.

LEMON: OK. Let's - can we go back to Libya now, lieutenant?

FRANCONA: That was Libya.

LEMON: Let's talk about Libya now.

FRANCONA: OK.

LEMON: How much are we going to lean on, I should say, the U.S. government would lean on Libya to figure out if they knew Al-libi was there and what does that mean, the difference of whether or not they knew or not?

FRANCONA: Well, I think, of course, they knew. I'm assuming from what I'm reading between the lines that we have been working with the Libyans for some time either in some surveillance capacity, intelligence gathering capacity to the point where it was feasible to take him without too much risk to civilian population.

From what I understand, this was done in broad daylight, quickly and efficiently. That would indicate to me some cooperation from the Libyan government. I'm sure we are putting pressure on them, but they only have so much capability. You know, that government is not very strong. LEMON: We were talking about - now I want to go back to Somalia, excuse me. That's what I meant earlier. When you were talking made the decision to retreat because they didn't want to create more havoc or kill more people and create more havoc than they had to, so, my question to you is the same one I asked Nic Robertson. This is a stronghold of Al Shabaab. The fact they were able to get into this territory where it is presumably a stronghold, what does that say about the operations there?

FRANCONA: Well, if you look at the location, this is Barawa, OK and this is on the coast about 250 miles up the coast from the border with Kenya. It's about 100 miles south of Mogadishu. This is a coastal town. So once you have a coastal town, even if it's a stronghold of Al Shabaab, it is accessible to the U.S. Navy. The S.E.A.L.S were able to come from the ocean. That's why it's a classic S.E.A.L. operation.

LEMON: Thank you very much, Lt. Col. Rick Francona from, joining us from Eugene, Oregon. Don't go anywhere, we are going to need you as well. Our Nic Robertson is our senior international correspondent. He is standing by on the other side of the break as well as (INAUDIBLE) who has been covering this region for quite some time. We are going to go to the region and get more information on this breaking news right after this break.

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LEMON: Breaking news on CNN. Information is coming in every minute. I keep checking the wires here and checking with our international unit. The breaking news this hour, two major U.S. military attacks in Africa. CNN has confirmed U.S. Navy S.E.A.L.S, the team went on a mission in Somalia and tried to nab an Al Shabaab leader possibly linked to that Kenya mall attack that left 67 people dead, that we covered so much here on CNN.

The Navy S.E.A.L.S had to withdraw because they were under fire and we were told they chose to withdraw so that they would not cause more damage than needed to be in that Somali town. We do not know exactly what happened to the Al Shabaab leader. Plus this one as well, the Al Qaeda operative responsible for the 1998 bombings on U.S. embassies may have been captured. Abu Anas Al-libi has topped the most wanted list for years. We have been searching for him for years. He joined Al Qaeda soon after its founding and is considered a senior member of Al Qaeda.

Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr is here. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is here as well. And Jomana Karadsheh joins us from the region. I want to bring in CNN's Nic Robertson first.

Nic, my question to you is very simple. How big a deal is this?

ROBERTSON: It's a huge deal to get Abu Anas Al-libi. I mean, he's a big player in Al Qaeda. He is in one of Al Qaeda's sort of key target areas, if you will, the north of Africa. They've been playing on the chaos that's followed the Arab spring, particularly in Libya. There's a growing band of Islamists there, some of them have been sent Al Qaeda members sent specifically from Al Qaeda heartland in Pakistan- Afghan border region, to set up training camps inside Libya.

They pose a threat not just in Libya, but across the whole of the north of Africa, Mali, Algeria and potentially into Europe. The reporting that we've done on this group has indicated that their plans are not just to build a network in the north of Africa, but to use that as a base to target western interests inside Europe. How or if Abu Anas Al-libi was fitting into that spectrum of Al Qaeda's planning, we don't know specifically, but we do understand that for at least the past year, he's lived fairly openly in Tripoli in Libya.

The Libyan authorities there are not strong. They don't have a strong national security force. There are many militias, tribal based militias across the country as well as Islamists-based militias which means the government has been weak there to do anything about the growth of Al Qaeda. This is a significant step that will thwart to a degree, a small part of that growth, but it is a significant step, Don.

LEMON: All right. Nic, hold on right there. I'm going to get to Jomana Karadsheh. Jomana is on the line with us and she is in Oman, Jordan. She has covered Libya really over the years for quite a long time. And I want to talk to you, last we spoke, you were saying people were just getting the information, just hearing the news about this mission in this Somali town by U.S. special forces. What are you hearing there? What is the reaction?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A wealth of questions coming out, Don, from Libya at this late hour. It's about 2:00 in the morning now in Tripoli and the questions are people are concerned, is there going to be any sort of back clash, is there any sort of retaliation against many of the western targets that are in Tripoli, whether it's diplomatic missions, whether it's businesses that remain a very soft target. The Libyan government as Nic just mentioned is a very weak one. It is unable to provide security.

So there's a lot of concern about what happens next, what sort of reaction are we going to see, if any, to those news. And of course, the questions are, people are asking whether their government knew this, whether it sanctioned this because they say there's a lot of concern that, you know, what does this mean for Libya? Is the country not sovereign anymore, does it not, you know, have the ability to stop foreign troops from coming into their country and nabbing people.

There are also questions about are U.S. forces going after Benghazi suspects next. That has been a concern and Don, just last year, right after that attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, I remember speaking with senior Libyan government officials and they were really, really concerned about any sort of U.S. military action at the time following that attack in Benghazi. They said that if any U.S. military operation take place, it would undermine the government and it could lead to more chaos. It could lead to violence. So they were really concern about that, at the time, very curious to see what would come out from the Libyan government tomorrow morning as the reaction to this, as Barbara pointed out that they were aware at some level of this operation. LEMON: Jomana Karadsheh, can you hang with me for just a little bit because I think it's very interesting what you're talking about here. You're talking about the attack on Benghazi, Libya, and now that this suspect has been gone after. Not sure if he has been captured or not, what happened, this operation has happened in Libya.

I want to know what this means for the investigation into that. Jomana Karadsheh, stand by. Details on that right after this break.

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LEMON: Back now to the breaking news here on CNN. Two missions carried out overseas by special forces. I want to get back to our Jomana Karadsheh. She is on the line joining us from Oman, Jordan, covered Libya for years. She is gauging reaction there. And before the break, I asked you, what if anything, what is the connection between this and the investigation into the Benghazi, Libya attack?

KARADSHEH: Well, the big issue was that we knew that the U.S. had compiled lists of suspects who may have been involved in that attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. We are told that the Libyan government was handed a copy of the list. They knew who these suspects were, but the Libyans had not moved, had not picked up any of those suspects.

CNN actually met (INAUDIBLE), one of the top suspects in the Benghazi attack, who was roaming the streets of Benghazi freely. He was able to sit with our Arwa Damon at one of the hotels in Benghazi. The question has been why has the Libyan government not arrested them. Of course, it has always been the case that there is concern that the government is too weak. These are all members of strong militias, allies with strong Islamist militias in the area, there are tribal issues there. It would be very difficult for this - it would be difficult for this central government that does not have a strong security force to move in and capture these suspects.

So the question had been, would the U.S. be able to do this. But of course we would hear from the Libyan government, Libyan officials to say it would be disastrous if the U.S. tried to nab any of these Benghazi suspects. So now that begs the question, will this mean that the U.S. could move in, could pick up Benghazi suspects, capture or kill any of those involved in the attack if this has already happened (INAUDIBLE)?

LEMON: And you said there is concern from the Libyan people about that, about who exactly is allowed, if a foreign government can come into their country and carry out a mission and capture someone and then bring them back to trial.

KARADSHEH: Absolutely. It's on the street level, and you also hear it from the government. Libya's Justice minister told us just a few months ago that no Libyan will stand trial outside of Libya. This had been a big thing for them that they did not want to see any Libyans including former regime members standing trial outside the country and on the street level, of course, this is a very sensitive issue. Libya is just coming out of this devastating civil war, the revolution it went through. It is still going through a very, very rough time. Libya is a very unstable state right now. Trying to rebuild. This country had been a very, very challenging task for the government. Of course this really undermines this weak central government that is pro western in Libya and a lot of people will be asking the question now, what kind of two government do they have. How sovereign is Libya really if foreign troops are able to pick up Libyans and take them out of the country. So a lot of concern about what kind of reaction we'll be seeing to that, Don.

LEMON: Jomana Karadsheh, thank you. Stand by, everyone.