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Dr. Drew
Mom Defends Living Conditions
Aired October 15, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, twin girls locked away naked in a filthy room. Mom said she just ran out for cigarettes, and she`s being punished for being poor. What does our behavior bureau say?
Plus, a young woman stabs her mother 79 times. What went wrong with this teen? Her aunt will join us exclusively.
And tormented 12 year old jumps to her death. Two classmates are charged with aggravated stalking. We will get to the bottom of all this bad behavior.
Let`s get started.
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PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM Radio host, Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, Jenny, check out this viral video of a woman completely flipping out on a plane.
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PINSKY: Jenny, I know that`s your customary behavior when you`re stuck out of the business class.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
HUTT: That`s the separate conversation we`re going to have to have.
And later on, we will see more of that video, and the behavior bureau will attack.
But, first, breaking news in the case of a mom who left her two kids in revolting conditions, while she run to the store, well, just buy some cigarettes, of course. Thirty-year-old was arrested for child endangerment just hours ago. Take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As far as I knew, she was a great mom. She`s -- I mean, I doesn`t really know ma happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being the mother of multiples is not as easy as everybody thinks.
REPORTER: The woman wasn`t home where investigators say the children were found locked inside a room that had only a single blanket and smelled of waste.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They had a pile of five blankets, unlike the story that has been told. There was only one blanket. There were five blankets.
REPORTER: When the door was unlocked, they discovered the two girls in a room without food or toys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was the lock that was on the girls` door. There was no padlock. It had a simple sliding lock.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Wow.
Joining me tonight, HLN anchor Lynn Berry, Dean Obeidallah, CNN.com and "Daily Beast" contributor, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", and Emily Miller, senior editor of opinion at "The Washington Times", also author of "Emily Gets Her Gun."
Lynn Berry, I want to start with you. Give us the back story on this. I`m sort of, so many things she said made me jump out of my skin like, oh, raising twins is easy.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Yes. And how about this? It`s just a lock, see, just a sliding lock. No big deal. Let`s put this in context.
PINSKY: Just barrel bolts.
BERRY: Yes.
Let`s put this into context. This is not mom`s first brush with the law. The only reason this happened is probation officers were checking on her after a human trafficking charge.
Back in June, she was caught with eight illegal immigrants in her car. She admitted she was going to get paid $500 for each person. So, she was arrested, she was out on a pre-trial.
And, you know, also in 2011, there was an risk case that was open. She didn`t go into detail as to why that was opened. It was closed in 2012. But a risk case.
This woman has been flagged before. Flash forward to now. And we see these two year old little girls in deplorable conditions.
And, by the way, if she wants to blame this on being poor -- you`re buying cigarettes? Cigarettes are pretty expensive. Why don`t you put that cigarette money aside and possibly save up for maybe money to pay for new beds for your children.
HUTT: Don`t you have triplets?
PINSKY: I have triplets.
HUTT: Did you lock them up?
PINSKY: Sure, I had barrel bolts and rooms for punishment and discipline.
No, listen, when you have multiples, you have to contain them. You never let them out of your eyesight. That`s absolutely insanity. But speaking of being within one`s field of vision, I wish the viewers could see what I saw when Lynn was telling the details of this story, which is the push on all you guys.
I`m going to start with Emily.
You had a look of disbelief.
EMILY MILLER, THE WASHINGTON TIMES: I mean, it`s just, well, I mean, the sad thing is, Dr. Drew is this happens every day all over the country, you know, child abuse. You know, I`m grad to see these children in protective custody now. But why did it take two years?
I mean, we have two separate instances. She was caught human trafficking. And now, the woman, I mean, the mother in all this, she is not at all repentant. She doesn`t think she`s done anything wrong.
PINSKY: No.
MILLER: Her children have no food. And she`s arguing, when the reporter says their kids were naked or the police said that, she goes, they had diapers on.
I mean, it`s just -- this woman, if she at least screwed up, or I was tired, I was working late, I missed up. There`s just no repentance. Hopefully, she won`t be getting her children back until she does some major changes.
PINSKY: When she was asked about a previous child protective case from 2011, I believe Lynn mentioned that, here`s what she told reporters about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got out of the hospital at noon. CPS was at my door at 5:00. The CPS investigator asked, "Where is their formula?" And I pulled out my breasts and said, "This is formula."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: When you listen to her talk you`ve got to shake your head, Dean. I`ve got to tell you what, anybody who`s critical of Mama June, I`m telling you, Mama June needs the parent of the year award compared to all of this -- Dean.
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, THE DAILY BEAST: I agree with you, and this mother`s not going get mother of the year, either. But before we jumped too quickly, let`s took at the real facts here. The fact that the authorities said the children are not injured. They`re fine. That`s one good thing.
Second, the alternative is put the children in foster care. If you look at the statistics for that, it`s horrible. Forty percent of the people who are in foster care end up homeless, 60 percent end up in jail. They have a high, high unemployment rate, over 50 percent.
So, you know, you have to hook at the real facts here. You see other clips of the mother, what I saw, she was caring. She was crying. She talked about the children, talked about the Halloween costume that her sister made for the kids.
It`s not a woman who`s like I don`t care about my children.
(CROSSTALK)
OBEIDALLAH: Things have gone too far for her.
PINSKY: Loni, go ahead.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I appreciate what Dean is saying. I was a single mom for many years, and I know how hard it is to take care of little kids and go to the store and handle all that.
And I do put a lot of credibility that they said they were physically OK. They didn`t look like they were underweight, that they were starving. That they seem to be socially adoptable, that they play with the neighborhood kids. Those are all good things.
However, to lock two little two year olds in a room where you can`t see them with a lock just because you`re too lazy to watch them is not good parenting. And when you go on --
MILLER: But the stranger part of the story, though, is it`s not, first of all, she went to the store to buy cigarettes. It`s not like she went to the store to get milk. And she left them with her sister. So, her sister was the one who was originally arrested because the sister was home and she`s the one who locked the toddlers in the room.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Dean.
COOMBS: I do give the police a lot of credit that they took four days to do this investigation. They took four days to make sure that look, there really is a history going on here and these kids need to be taken from the home because that is a very serious step to make.
PINSKY: Well, but, yes, Dean`s point is though, from out of the frying pan into the fire, right?
COOMBS: That is the problem, but that`s why --
BERRY: Appreciate you playing devil`s advocate --
OBEIDALLAH: She left them with her sister.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Finish up, Lynn. Finish that thought.
BERRY: You`re telling other side of it. But you can`t say that a foster family would be terrible. There are wonderful foster families out there. When you put a kid in a room that reeks of human waste and there are locks in there and they have no food and water, that`s a difficult argument to make that they`re best --
MILLER: Yes, there`s absolutely no doubt that the foster system is very broken and things go really badly. Kids in foster care have a very low high dropout rate, very high dropout rate. However, as you said, this is no way -- did you see this house that doesn`t have windows? The mother`s out smoking. She clearly doesn`t have a job. She`s already gotten arrested.
PINSKY: She`s poor. She`s poor. We got that. She stays at home to take care of the kids.
Jenny?
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: She may be going to jail for a long period of time, too?
OBEIDALLAH: You can`t be uncaring for the fact that she`s less fortunate.
MILLER: She says the reason that her children shouldn`t be in foster care is because the foster parents wouldn`t know that one of the children has allergies and she doesn`t testify what allergies, and they wouldn`t know that her doctors like their chocolate milk.
It`s like the strangest thing, as opposed, I want my children back. I mean, it was just -- this vague. I mean, she does not seem qualified right now to take care of children.
PINSKY: Let me do something. I want to talk to the public information for Liberty County, Texas, the sheriff`s department, Ken Defoor.
Ken, can you tell us the status of both the sister and the mom right now?
KEN DEFOOR, SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT, LIBERTY COUNTY, TEXAS (via telephone): Yes, I certainly can. As it was mentioned earlier, the sister was arrested Saturday and brought to Liberty County jail and booked in. She`s presently on a $5,000 bond.
After two or three days of continuing investigation, we issued a warrant of arrest today for the mother, Brandy Dominguez, and she was arrested about 1:20 this afternoon and is presently in the Liberty County jail.
PINSKY: Captain, let me ask you this. And thank you for joining us. You have children yourself, yes?
DEFOOR: Yes, sir. That`s correct.
PINSKY: And we`re arguing about whether these children would be better off in foster care versus with their family of origin, with their mother, their biological mother. This seems to me is a very tricky issue.
Do you have an opinion about that?
DEFOOR: Well, needless to say, it`s always better to have the parents take care, custody and control of their children and the children to be with the parents.
PINSKY: You hope so, Captain. But, yes.
DEFOOR: But there are exceptions.
PINSKY: Many!
DEFOOR: Where if they`re not properly cared for then be obviously a foster home would be a better option.
PINSKY: What do you think is the situation here or are you allowed to offer an opinion?
DEFOOR: An opinion on what would be better in this particular set of circumstances would be premature right now because CPS is presently conducting their investigation. They do have the children in their custody. And presently, they are with a foster family until they can finish their investigation to determine if the mother is fit to take the children back.
PINSKY: Emily, I see you have a question. Is that for the captain?
MILLER: Where is the father in all this?
PINSKY: Good question, great question.
DEFOOR: We had the same question. We still don`t have an answer to that.
PINSKY: Show of hands, can we all agree that that may be the core issue? When you look at dealing with multiples or dealing with children.
There`s a famous researcher up in the northern plains who always said, you know, he studied longitudinally the attachment of kids then their outcomes. He said if you can do one thing for a single mom, it`s to give them a supportive partner. If you have twins, you`re doubling down on that need.
Captain, thank you for joining us this evening.
Thank you to the panel.
The mom she says --
DEFOOR: My pleasure. Thank you for inviting us.
PINSKY: You betcha. Mom says she doesn`t make a lot and she`s doing the best she can for these kids. The behavior bureau is going to weigh in on that and other issues as it pertained to that woman.
And later, police say this teen stabbed her mother 79 times. What went wrong with this woman?
Back in a moment.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What do you think happened that alarmed people enough to get CPS involved?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What, well, I don`t really know. It could be that the beds have been broken. I bought them brand new beds with tax money from their father that I was given to buy them brand new beds. They`ve learned how to climb out of cribs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. It is time for another behavior bureau. And we are discussing those 2-year-old twins left in squalor by the mom whom you just saw there. She said she was going to the store to buy some cigarettes and put that barrel bolt across the door. No big deal, not a padlock.
HUTT: And she was going to put the beds together.
PINSKY: All the beds, a lot about the beds in her interviews out there.
A 30-year-old was arrested, this mom was arrested for child endangerment just hours ago. I`m going to share a tweet with you we got from Sharlay Strong. Her handle is (INAUDIBLE), "Oh, my God, single mom here of twins all by myself thank you very much." God bless her. "And live by a convenient rstore. Never had this happen."
HUTT: Of course not.
PINSKY: Well, listen, that`s why this is so outrageous.
Joining us, the behavior bureau, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network, Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist and HLN contributor. Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal". And Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30-Day Love Detox."
Wendy, you first, what do you make of the mom`s excuses and explanations?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I`m of two minds, because I do hate it when people discriminate against lower income families, because you don`t have to be rich to be a good mother.
On the other hand, here`s a mother who was already on arrest charges herself, who had left these children alone, who has said her big complaint about them being away from her is that her foster parents wouldn`t know that they only like chocolate milk. So, their primary beverage is chocolate milk instead of white milk, now I`m getting concerned.
PINSKY: Also, attachment to chocolate milk. That`s the most important mothering element here.
I want to show you guys another bizarre statement from the mom and, Tiffanie, I`m going to have you respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a truth to every untruth. And that`s the biggest thing. I`m not a boo-hoo mom. You know, I don`t want to get this story out just because I want the attention, you know, the 15 minutes of fame. That`s not what this is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tiffanie, hmm --
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, there`s a truth under everything that she`s saying, and I have a hard time believing that, look, Dr. Drew, there are a lot of low income families that will identify with this mom that will say sometimes I don`t have the money that I need to pool together to get the food or shoes or clothes, or the food that I want to buy the groceries, all that doesn`t matter. The quantity of what you have does not matter. It`s the quality of care that you`re able to give.
And if the police came in and saw that the quality wasn`t there, them I`m OK with them taking the kids out of the home at least for a minute. I`d rather they do that than leave them there in squalor and something else happen to them. So, I think that they did the right thing. I think she`s got to come clean with my conditions of living are not safe for kids, locking the door, not a good look. She`s got to come clean with this.
PINSKY: Sam?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Tiffanie, you`re absolutely right. You hit the nail on the head.
Here`s the thing. This mom is taking zero responsibility. And I think this is what`s getting everybody so irate, especially because there`s so many women, Dr. Drew, out there that want to be moms. They`d give anything to be a mom, but they`re having trouble conceiving.
And this is just so frustrating to see a mom hike this who won`t take responsibility four allowing her kids to live this squalor. But to Dean`s point I found very interesting that when I was reading the comments underneath the local news report, there`s a number of people supporting this mom that know her or are her neighbors within the neighborhood that say that she`s actually a really good mom, according to them. I thought that was interesting.
PINSKY: She`s a criminal, and she lost her kids? Jenny, go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: Dr. Drew, I`m so confused. How could nobody`s talked about her talking about the 15 minutes of fame? What is she talking about? Her children were taking away.
What is she talking about 15 minutes of fame for? A. And the reason she`s not taking responsibility is this woman doesn`t think she`s done anything wrong. How is that possible?
PINSKY: Right.
Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for saying that, Jenny.
Now I can bring Danine in, who always, she can throw her dynamite into this conversation. But, Danine, she has a really interesting point, that Jenny just made, because when you and I deal with parents that are dysfunctional, they never cop to it. That`s why -- remember the kid, the 9 year old that was running and the airport and got on the plane and the father was like begging for help? I thought, wow, they don`t normally say I need help, I`m a good parent.
Danine?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Dr. Drew, I`m not going to make any friends tonight, I can already see where this is going. But just hear me out.
What I have learned is that the police report is not the gospel. I need to know how long they had been in that room. She said that she put them down for a nap and went out. I used to have a little white gate that I would lock my kids behind when I would go hit the shower or go cook, or have, or do something that I didn`t want my kids running in.
Maybe she didn`t have a gate. I hear that they`re saying that the kids were naked and then they changed it to the kids were in diapers. Kids take naps in diapers. I hear that. I see it all the time.
First, they said the house smelled like raw sewage or something. Then it turned out to be, well, it smelled like urine. Well, some houses smell like urine. I`ve been in them, people have gone to the bathroom on the cushions of an old couch and the house stinks.
They didn`t have food. Would that mean there`s no food in the refrigerator or they didn`t have food at arm`s reach?
I need more information before I throw this mother under the bus. I need to have more information about -- the kids were not beaten. They were not emaciated. They seemed to be clean.
I did not hear anything about these kids having bruises or anything. So I need more information before I --
PINSKY: Wendy agrees.
Tiffanie, I don`t know what you`re thinking.
HENRY: No, 100 percent. I think we rush to judgment because the kids were taken away. Again, I feel like if there were question, if there`s ever a question mark where there`s a kid involved, especially, two 2 year olds, then we have to proceed with caution. We have to take them out. Remove them from the situation and investigate.
And hopefully that`s what they`re doing and they`re doing it in a fair manner.
PINSKY: Wendy, I`m going to finish this conversation. I know Jenny is outraged.
HUTT: Right, yes.
PINSKY: I know you are. Let me just say this. Wendy, you and I have long conversations away from this program about the importance of attachment. And we don`t know whether these kids are attached to this mom or not. I would bet they are.
Just taking them away from this mom even to a good foster care could be traumatic, which is why they want to keep the mom with the children. So, finish me up there.
WALSH: The answer, of course, is not to remove children from a home where there`s not obvious signs of physical abuse, but instead, do some parent education. That`s what we need to do as a village is surround ourselves around mothers like this to give them the support they need, because, obviously, there isn`t a baby daddy who`s showing up to help out. There aren`t extended family around who are helping.
She had double the need because twins who are two years old? I`d love to see any man be alone with two 2 year olds for the day, OK, and not need to run out and get a cigarette.
PINSKY: Listen.
SCHACHER: Or something else.
PINSKY: There should be much more anger and outrage about the missing dad. When we blame the mom, how about the guy that left her alone with these twins? That`s where we need to place our aggressive anger. I`m just saying. It`s easy to get mad at the mom who`s left behind with these twins.
Thank you, guys.
Next up, the woman who`s accused of stabbing her own mother 79 times, and her behavior in court was something to behold.
Later, a social media attack leads to a 12 year old girl`s suicide and the tormenter then brags about it.
And, of course, I`ve got that viral video coming. You`re not going to want to miss that.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tonight, a mom slashed in the face and neck 79 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mom had 31 stab wounds to the face, just to break it down, 48 stab wounds to the neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s an 18-year-old female, of mixed race. I think it might be with Asian. She is wearing a pink tank top, shorts. One shoe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was formally charged with murder. And what he did to her own mother is horrific.
PINSKY: This teen is accused of that savage crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then when she finally gets to the court room, she is wearing an orange jumpsuit and shackles. She was making strange faces to the camera.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about her eyes? There`s something about her eyes that just gives me the creep. They`re almost vacant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt.
We still got Lynn, Dean, Loni and Emily with us. We`re talking about a woman accused of stabbing her mother 79 times and just sort of walking away with a vacant look in her eyes.
We`ve all seen that footage of her in court.
Lynn, what`s the latest?
BERRY: Well, the latest is there was supposed to be a competency hearing today. And the competency hearing, you may think it may show whether or not she has a mental illness or insanity. No, it`s just to determine whether or not she understands what`s happening during these court proceedings.
Well, that report didn`t finish so the hearing didn`t happen. And what else did that mean? We didn`t see her in court. Why is that important?
Because, Dr. Drew, as you just pointed out, it was that reaction of hers in court that struck so many people, because it was so evil, almost, and so bizarre, and it led to a really interesting discussion we had on this show about whether or not this is a case of psychosis, mental illness.
And Danine made a good point. Sometimes people are just evil and do terrible things.
PINSKY: Absolutely. Emily, I haven`t had this conversation with you yet. But to my eye that`s a psychotic individual. But you don`t have much patience for that, have you?
MILLER: Yes, I don`t care. If she`s psychotic, I mean, she should go to jail at least for life, if not the death penalty. I mean, whatever caused her to stab her mother in the face 79 times, obviously, she`s evil and crazy. Doesn`t matter which.
I mean, she knew it was wrong. I mean, she`s functional. It doesn`t matter, any of these kinds of killings. Does it really matter the reason that they did it?
If they are literally hearing aliens, lock them into a mental hospital for the rest of their lives. And that`s the problem we have, if we let people out of mental hospitals. When they`re going away, they should go away forever.
PINSKY: See, Loni, what Emily is saying we should put anybody who`s psychotic, put them down like a dog that`s rabid. I think that`s what Emily is saying. I think that`s what she`s saying.
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: You have to understand, I`m a criminal prosecutor. Yes, Emily and I are going to be joining arms here. I am a former criminal prosecutor. For 18 years, I`ve put people in jail, and I -- you know, whether the mental report came in and said they were listening to voices or whatever, the bottom line is they killed somebody.
Unless the defense attorney can say at the time they did it, they didn`t understand that what they were doing was wrong versus right, then you put them in jail. But if they`re mentally ill, you put them in a mental institution.
But, Dr. Drew, I understand you want to help every mentally ill person out there. But, if they`re also violent, they put everyone in society at risk.
PINSKY: Yes, listen, I`m in favor of restricting their personal freedoms. By the way, that helps them and everybody else.
But, Jenny, you want to comment here.
HUTT: I do. Dr. Drew, going back to that visual of her making faces at the camera, that is a ferociously angry young woman.
PINSKY: Paranoid. Paranoid.
HUTT: And ferociously. She smirks at the camera. And she`s hmm, she`s angry.
PINSKY: Dean, help me with the moderate position here. Is it Hammurabi`s law to throughout the clan? Is that it? Is that what justice is? An eye for an eye?
OBEIDALLAH: No, just because you`re making faces, it doesn`t mean you`re crazy. Have you seen Miley Cyrus?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: First of all, Dean, Dean, Dean, before you -- Dean, let`s stop. Touche, touche, Dean. But go ahead. Make your point.
OBEIDALLAH: My point is this. There are three women killed every day by domestic violence in the United States of America. The police were called the day of the murder saying warning, the mother said, my daughter`s threatening me, and the police didn`t do anything.
And that`s because the situation -- if it`s a boyfriend or husband making a threat, the guy is arrested or restraining order. We have to -- the police have to take the same seriousness if the child is threatening a mother as if it`s a husband or a boyfriend.
(CROSSTALK)
BERRY: The police didn`t do nothing. The police actually were called to the house that day. They met with her. They determined she was not an immediate threat. They said to the mother, you can kick her out of the house if you want to. So, there`s only so much cops can do. They don`t have a crystal ball. And they don`t know that she`s going to stab her mother 79 times.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on, Loni.
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: That`s also a very important point for parents, and that is you really need to recognize these red flags. I know that they`re your little babies that you raised. However, when they`re saying you will pay.
When they are spitting in your face, when they are ignoring the pleas of police officers and parents to say, look, you need to change your behavior and they don`t, parents have to really protect themselves even though I know it`s hard to imagine.
PINSKY: Emily -- before you comment, Emily, I just want to say one thing, the one thing, which is at least grant me this, Emily, that I`m urging parents not to go it alone. And if you have a kid like Loni said who`s looking problematic, get help. So, this doesn`t happen. So, they don`t fall into the camp that you have no mercy for.
EMILY MILLER, SENIOR EDITOR OF OPINION, WASHINGTON TIMES: No. I`m going to agree with you. And what I`m thinking of, though, in this case of Adam Lanza who horrifically killed those children at Sandy Hook Elementary School, he was off his rocker and his mother seemed to be aware of it and trying -- we don`t know because it hasn`t been released yet, apparently trying to get him to put into a mental hospital of some sort, but mostly was in denial.
I mean, she obviously -- the locks on the gun cases were open. They weren`t broken into. She had access. I mean, it`s another case of these mothers maybe in denial or protecting, but these teenagers who hit this kind of crazy, crazy land, at what, some point, there`s usually a track record in a period of long time --
PINSKY: Ultimately --
MILLER: I do put blame on these parents for not --
PINSKY: Well, I don`t blame the victim so much. I understand the point you`re making and that, again, it`s that moment which somebody who is in trouble, let`s call, mental illness in trouble, gets access to a weapon. That`s that moment that we have to be better --
MILLER: She just had access to a kitchen -- She just had access to a knife in the kitchen.
PINSKY: I know your love for guns. I know your love for firearms.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: What about this woman at the capital last week who tried to run over and kill a bunch (ph) of people with a car? I mean, everything is how are you going to prevent people from getting cars and knives and everything. So, there`s no way to prevent it. The way you do it is crazy people get put into mental hospitals for a long period of time. And the bad guys put into long sentences.
PINSKY: Physicians can have, perhaps, greater ability to exert their judgment. I think that might do a lot for this. Thank you, guys.
Next up, a 12-year-old girl taunted by classmates jumps to her death. Hear what her mother has to say about this.
And later, a woman has a mid-air meltdown and it is all caught on video. Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time again for the "Behavior Bureau." My co-host is Jenny Hutt. We are discussing now a 12-year-old, Rebecca Sedgwick, was tormented and harassed for more than a year by her fellow classmates. The taunting got so bad these allegations it drove Rebecca to suicide. And now, the two girls who had repeatedly attacked her, verbally and physically, have been arrested. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch what your children do online. Quit being their best friend, and be their best parent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two girls, one 14, the other 12, were arrested yesterday in connection with Rebecca Sedgwick`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rebecca was absolutely terrorized on social media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The girl that was arrested put online --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I believe (ph), Rebecca. And she killed herself but I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She jumped off a silo and committed suicide last month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This all started, apparently, as a result of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) current boyfriend who was Rebecca`s former boyfriend. She began to harass and ultimately torment Rebecca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She used to come home every day and tell me how she wasn`t worth anything, that she was ugly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The night before she jumped, Rebecca sent a message to a 12-year-old North Carolina boy. She wrote, "I`m jumping. I can`t take it anymore."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Oh, it`s just so sad. Back with the "behavior bureau," Samantha, Tiffanie, Danine, and Wendy, and joining us first before we go the panel is Sheriff Grady Judd who, in fact, charged these two girls.
Sheriff, a couple of things, first of all, I want to commend you for such clarity up there in front of the media. That was a message that took my breath away and makes me little emotional, actually. So, first of all, congratulations and thank you for that.
VOICE OF GRADY JUDD, POLK COUNTY SHERIFF: Dr. Drew, thank you for saying that. My detectives worked very hard on this case to make sure that we blocked these two girls to justice for their outrageous behavior toward Rebecca Sedgwick. They pushed her over the edge, literally.
PINSKY: How did the girls react when you first arrested them?
JUDD: We called them back into the office after we saw that the one young lady sent the post out on her Facebook. We thought that was the last straw. Our investigation wasn`t complete. We wanted to try to wait until it was completed, but when she did that, we thought we`ve got to get her off the street. We called the parents, both refused to bring the girls down for an interview. They didn`t know they were going to be arrested at that time.
So, we just went to their residence and arrested them. They gave us no information, but the one primary aggressor, the older of the two girls, was very flippant. She was very stoic. She showed no emotion at all.
PINSKY: Wow. I`ll give my panel a chance to talk to you. Jenny, you first.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes. Do the parents have any potential criminality in this circumstance? Are they responsible at all?
JUDD: You know, unfortunately, they don`t appear to have any criminal responsibility at this time. Although, I believe they have a lot of moral responsibility.
HUTT: Mm-hmm.
JUDD: I hold them as responsible as I do those two children, because after this almost year-long bullying episode, when we went there to arrest them, obviously, they still allowed the kids to have their Facebook and their devices. You know, that`s outrageous.
PINSKY: Sheriff Judd, I am just so grateful for the work you`re doing and the clarity of the message you put out today. So, just thank you for joining us. I`m going to take it back to the panel here. But please, again, just complete gratitude for your message today.
JUDD: We`ll keep working hard for the people of our community.
PINSKY: Thank you, sir. OK, now panel, this story has me really kind of emotional. It really affects me. Tiffanie, you`re shaking your head. Please, tell me what you`re thinking.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. No. I totally understand, because this young lady, especially the older one, one of the things that the sheriff said earlier today on raising America was that the younger of the two aggressors, actually, her parents took her over to Rebecca Sedgwick`s mother`s house so that those parents could make that kid apologize and say we did this, I am sorry.
The older parent, the older kid, not so much. I think it`s important that we note that this girl does not see the error of her ways. She doesn`t see the significance or the impact of what she did and how that impact --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: And that`s what makes us so angry.
PINSKY: Yes. Not only that. Control room, if you could please put up that tweet or was it a Facebook post that she put up with the IDGF it`s unbelievable when you read it. It was - "I know I bullied Rebecca and she killed herself, but fill in that acronym for yourself, IDGAF." Think about that.
HENRY: It`s a lack of human decency. A lack of human decency. A lack of remorse. And let me tell you, she got her -- her mouth got her into something to her butt could not cash, honey. She is in the jail now, and that`s exactly where she should be. Kudos to the sheriff for doing the right thing and really disciplining this young lady which her parents obviously couldn`t do.
PINSKY: Wendy, female sociopath?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: No.
PINSKY: No?
WALSH: Listen, Dr. Drew, these are all children. I`m not forgiving this 14-year-old here, but if we`re pulling in parents, let`s pull in all the parents. When are 12 year olds having boyfriends? If I had a depressed teen, and apparently this girl had an earlier suicide attempt, the last thing I would do is ever let her online. It`s a dangerous place if you have a lot of good defenses.
I don`t think that this girl, the 14-year-old who posted I don`t give a flip, feels absolutely no remorse. Perhaps, she feels such shame that that`s her defense mechanism to write that out.
PINSKY: OK. All right.
WALSH: So, I`m just saying we`re talking about children here as if they`re adults. These are 12-year-olds and 13-year-old.s
PINSKY: OK. Hold on, Jenny, but Sam, you were going to say something about the social media.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: OK. With social media, no, absolutely, Dr. Drew. I mean, what we see on social media today, cyber bullying is so prevalent. It`s disgusting. Compared to the bullying that we may all have been used to on the playground, now, kids can`t escape bullying. They go home and then it continues to happen.
But I just have to say really quickly in response to Wendy, I mean, we were so also quick to get upset and riled up in regard to Little Josh Young and accused him of being a sociopath, but then not this girl? I`m sorry. I think this girl is callous and unremorseful, and I will call her a sociopath.
PINSKY: I will, too. Danine, come on now, bring it, Danine.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: Thanks, Wendy.
(LAUGHTER)
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Dr. Drew, five percent of kids are going to be relentlessly bullied. Five percent of kids are going to be bullies. And 90 percent of kids are going to sit by and do absolutely nothing. We, as parents, need to get with our children and empower them and help them to understand that they have got to stand up and say something.
Even if, you know, they`re scared of being retaliated against or whatever, send an anonymous message, leave a note under a parent`s mailbox or something like that. You have got to stand up and do something besides --
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Dr. Drew, if your child is involved in social media, it is imperative that the parent be involved as well.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WALSH: You must be their Facebook friend. You must be their Twitter follower.
PINSKY: I`m thinking about the sign I see in the New York City subways all the time.
MANETTE: Thirty people. Thirty people liked that post.
PINSKY: If you see something, say something. If you see something, say something That`s a message. I don`t want more kids at those memorial services like I just saw there. That`s ridiculous. They should be speaking up before, and I agree with that Danine.
Next up, the "Behavior Bureau" stays with me. And if you have a question for the bureau, you can tweet us @D-R-D-R-E-WHLN, DRDREWHLN #behaviorbureau.
Up next, a woman flips out on a flight to Florida. We will show you a viral video that has already racked up nearly half a million views. The "Behavior Bureau" tries to figure this out. You`ve got to see this. Stay with us.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up at the top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," day one of jury selection in the next big trial, Utah versus Dr. Martin MacNeill accused of drugging and drowning his wife. And tonight, Ryan, we`ll compare this defendant to another defendant that our jury knows a lot about.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: That`s right. It`s a controversial topic. The bold question tonight, is Dr. MacNeill worse than Jodi Arias? This jury is going to have to decide tonight.
POLITAM: They`ll see all the evidence involving Arias and the doctor, a verdict tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and the "Behavior Bureau," Samantha, Tiffanie, Danine, and Wendy. And before we go to our next story, we have a bunch of Twitter action on the last -- I`m going to read one to you. This is Courtney Eslick (ph)@DJCourtneyE, "The 30 people liking the Facebook post is possibly more disturbing than the girls with the IDGAF."
And yes, reinforcing our point that the online activity is a dangerous place for young people and all of us, for that matter.
All right. Now, we`re getting to a woman on a flight to Tampa who had a midair meltdown screaming, "God, you`re my savior," while trashing in her seat. Prior to her screaming which you`re going to see in just a second, she`d been pacing up and down the aisles telling people to pray for her dead mother.
Flight attendants thought she might actually try to open the plane`s door, asked fellow passengers to sort of block her that something I want to talk to you guys about. The whole episode was caught on video and totally racked up more than 500,000 views online. You`re going to see it right now. Let`s take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re! My! Savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s been freaking out for the last 20 minutes. She started out by telling everyone to pray for her mother who just passed away. She`s been going up and down the aisle. She`s telling everyone to pray for her mother, and then she`s been like this for the last 15, 20 minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny, I know you`re an anxious flyer, but even you?
HUTT: I would never do that. Dr. Drew, please, I tower the corner and I knocked myself out, but seriously, I would have tackled her. I would have tackled her to the ground.
SCHACHER: Are you serious? Dr. Drew, this woman -- Jenny, this woman supposedly had just lost her mother. When I saw this video, I almost shed a tear. I felt bad.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I have a really strong reaction to this video. This is somebody --
HUTT: -- ten days later. I didn`t do that on the --
SCHACHER: I have a strong reaction to this video. This is somebody that is clearly suffering, keyword, "suffering" from a mental breakdown and for this deutsche bag to then film it and broadcast it to the world for people to --
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: That wasn`t right. Hold on.
SCHACHER: I want to give her a hug.
HUTT: You can`t hug someone who`s so crazy. In that moment, she needed to be sort of --
SCHACHER: She`s grieving.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: She needed to be stopped.
SCHACHER: She`s having a mental breakdown, and I have compassion for her.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Tiffanie, let me go to you. Hold on. This goes to the -- I know jenny`s interested in the substance abuse part of this, but -- as it pertains to her.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But the fact is, Tiffanie, this goes back to that same issue we`re talking about, about weapons and guns. That is somebody in a dangerous condition psychiatrically. They need to be contained for their own good, and so, she doesn`t endanger everyone in that plane by pulling the door open.
HENRY: Right. Right. And we don`t know whether this was self- induced (ph) or a true psychiatric emergency, but what we do know is that she was flipping out. And most people don`t know what to do when they find themselves in the situation. And certainly, any of us could have been on that plane and any of us could have experienced this young lady.
And, you know, I`ve been on a plane where a flight attendant told me and my husband if someone comes through this door and that`s what the flight attendants were worried about, if someone comes to this door, you give them a quick elbow, just like this, and she told us that on the plane. I was shocked and my husband was like yes! I`m going to do it. So, it`s crazy what will happen on the plane and what can happen, but you have to be prepared for anything.
PINSKY: Hold it there. Hold it there. I agree with you. We`re going to show you more of this video. I`m going to get Danine and Wendy`s comments after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt and the "Behavior Bureau." We`re discussing the viral video of a woman freaking out on a flight. Take a look at more of this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if this guy next to her knows or her not. He`s been trying to calm her down the whole time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The flight attendant asked me to make sure she doesn`t like try to go to the back door and open it. If she tries to go back, I`m going to block her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Danine, your reaction?
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, I`m going to have to side with Sam on this one. I mean, I really feel sorry for her. If you had seen me on the plane coming back from dropping my son off in college, I wasn`t much better than this.
(LAUGHTER)
MANETTE: So, shame on this guy who -- to videotape this and put it on YouTube.
PINSKY: "Behavior Bureaus" always freak me out because of what I learn about my participants.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Wendy, your reaction.
WALSH: I actually sat on a five-hour flight with a woman who had an extreme fear of flying, Dr. Drew, and I have to tell you, it was a very turbulent flight. So, let`s just say I endure that for five hours. It does disrupt everybody else. And while I feel really sad that this woman has been shamed online, it does bring to light the fact that we are living in a world with a certain proportion of mentally ill people.
PINSKY: Got to go, Wendy.
WALSH: How do we deal with them and let make sure they don`t have guns.
PINSKY: There you go. "Last Call" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. "HLN After Dark" starts right now.
END
