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CNN NEWSROOM

Killers on the Run No More; Obamacare Web Site Too Complicated; New Look at Armstrong's Doping Scandal; "Blackfish" Premieres on CNN; New Video On Capture Of Two Fugitives; Arian Foster Stocks

Aired October 20, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, top of the hour here. At least almost the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

You know, it is the ending everyone wanted to a very embarrassing incident for the state of Florida. Two convicted murdered managed to walk out of a maximum security prison separately on two different days. They did not dig or jump the wall. Joseph Jenkins and Charles Walker somehow came up with some phony released papers and the prison opened the door and just let them walk out.

Our CNN legal analyst says there is no way they did this without help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it has to be somebody on the inside. It just has to be. Somebody at the clerk's office, somebody in the courthouse. Maybe even somebody in a state attorney's office position. A secretary maybe who can actually get that paperwork done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jenkins and Walker were rearrested in Panama City, Florida, late yesterday. Nick Valencia and I were on the air when it happened and we broke the story first for you here on CNN. And that's where we find Nick right now in Florida.

It is -- it has to be said that Florida police got lucky that these two men did not leave the state and they only got what, some 80 miles away, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes not only that, but that they were arrested without incident.

Listen, Don I mean the whole time Florida officials believed that these two were in the state of Florida. Principally they thought they were in the Orange County area. And they were even spotted there Charles Walker was spotted at the mall. After Joseph Jenkins family drove him home, they went to the grandma's house they went to the mom's house, they had a birthday party for him but he didn't show up at.

But they came to Panama City sometime we don't know when but at least as early as Friday they got here we're not sure how. But we do understand that they were in that motel waiting for a ride from Atlanta. So they were waiting on somebody to come pick them up. And they had plans and were expecting to leave this area -- Don.

LEMON: All right let's talk more about this. Police believe that these two men had help on the outside while they were obviously on the run. Any word on how that investigation is going?

VALENCIA: Well it's definitely part of their investigation right now. I spoke earlier with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. And they said they are looking very closely at people who may have helped them escape free while they were out, the weeks that they were out and also anybody that may have helped Walker and Jenkins get their hands on this forged documents.

And interestingly enough, the commissioner of Florida Department of Law Enforcement says that it's possible that these documents could have cost Jenkins and Walker upwards of about $8,000. That's also part of their investigation. But they do tell us, they are expecting more arrests to come. We just don't know when -- Don.

LEMON: Nick Valencia at Panama City, Florida. Thank you, Nick. Appreciate that.

You know those phony papers that Jenkins and Walker forged to get out of prison had official signatures on them including this signature of Judge Belvin Perry Jr., a Florida's Ninth Judicial Circuit Court. But it's a fake.

Judge Perry never signed them. It is a forgery. I talked to the Judge just a little while ago and he has a theory about what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE BELVIN PERRY JR., FLORIDA'S NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT COURT: Don, more than likely what happened was somebody appeared in the clerk's office, dropped them in a box. They were processed as they ordinarily do process documents. There was absolutely no contact with my office. No one even checked to see if in fact the cases were assigned to me. And they went on about their merry way and were transmitted to the Department of Corrections. And the Department of Corrections got them and acted upon them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well the State of Florida particularly the Department of Corrections hasn't said much publicly about the escape or how it happened.

I want to tell you about an historic moment just hours away in New Jersey. That's when gay couples will be able to legally marry in the state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOU STEVEN M. FULOP, JERSEY CITY, NEW JERSEY: It's exciting, it's great to see families having the opportunity to formally be recognized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The latest challenge was knocked down Friday by the state Supreme Court. The Governor's office had sought a delay but was turned down by the high court. An appeal is expected in January but the state Supreme Court said there is no reason to believe it will succeed.

The government shutdown delayed its christening but the Navy will launch its newest and biggest destroyer any day now. Here is an artist rendering of that ship. I want you to look at the unique design. Isn't that amazing? It's really cool, it's about 100 hundred feet longer than any destroyer now in the fleet and it allows the ship to ride low in the water to evade radar. It is built as something of a stealth destroyer. It also has missiles and new gun that fires rocket propelled warheads up to 100 miles an hour. Pretty cool.

Forget the criticism about of Obamacare, the rollout. Tomorrow in the Rose Garden the President will talk about the good it will do. But the GOP is not buying it.

On CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" John McCain calls it a fiasco. And in an exclusive interview with Senator Ted Cruz which also aired on "STATE OF THE UNION", he says HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has to go.

Here is CNN's Chris Lawrence -- Chris.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Don on Monday morning, President Obama is going to bring certain small business owners, pharmacists and consumers with him to the Rose Garden. These are certain people who support the Affordable Care Act. Some of them are likely to be people who did not have health care before and now have enrolled due to the new plan.

The Obama administration is trying to distance itself from the glitches. He's going to address them tomorrow. But you can already see the White House starting to say look, this is more than just a Web site. This is a program and the program itself is still a good one.

Critics on the other had say these aren't just glitches. People have not been able to even create passwords or log in. Some of them getting multiple error messages over weeks and weeks so they say there is no excuse and that's echoed by Senator John McCain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's been a fiasco. Send Air Force One after Silicon Valley, load it up with some smart people, bring them back to Washington and fix this problem. It's ridiculous and everybody knows that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: Other critics say it's so bad that they are calling for the head of the Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. They want her to resign. But so far the White House is backing her and the White House is touting certain numbers. 19 million people had visited the site; about half a million have filled out the application. What they are not saying is how many have actually enrolled. Yes, they put in all of their information. They've gotten to the end.

But what we'll have to look for over the next few weeks is how many people were actually able to sign up for a specific plan. The White House needs about seven million people to do so in order to balance out the costs -- Don.

LEMON: All right Chris Lawrence in Washington, thank you, Chris.

The administration admits the rollout has had problems. Listening to -- listen to the Web site posting. "We are committed to doing better to ensure that we make swift progress. Our team has called in additional help to solve some of the more complex technical issues we are encountering."

Ok so earlier I spoke with an expert. His name is Russ Reeder the president of Temple Media. And here is what he said. I asked him about the Obamacare Web site, he said it needs to be scrapped or rebuilt from scratch. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSS REEDER, TEMPLE MEDIA: Well, you don't rip down your house if you -- I you want to change it around a little. So you don't have to start from scratch. But they do have to accept that they -- they need a major overhaul.

All right so from -- from the architecture, I think they are trying to do too much. How do you take away features? If you want to get people signed up, if that's your number one goal, how do you take away all of the other things that you're trying to get the Web site to accomplish? So don't have them sign in before they start to look for plans. Like make it as easy as possible. Right now it's just way too complex. They are trying to solve all of their problems.

LEMON: $292 million for a Web site that doesn't work. Did the U.S. taxpayers get scammed?

REEDER: Right. So you and I paid for this right. So I don't know about scammed. I mean they obviously worked really hard to do this. But I think that when you start, especially in technology, if you start a project without understanding exactly what the day you're going to launch, and then work backwards. Right you know so for instance, the news has broke that they only had literally four to six days to test this. And the requirements were moving. That means that they were changing the design of the Web site until one week before they launched it. Normally you would have code complete, code. You would stop developing the Web site for six months before you launched. Not four to six days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right thank you very much, Mr. Reeder.

People get caught with guns and knives at the airport all the time. But this one is really over the top. Authorities at Newark JFK Airport says a Long Island man tried to board a JetBlue fight yesterday carrying a bag filled with more than a dozen knives, five pairs of scissors, more than a dozen lighters and other so-called implements of destruction. Timothy Schiavo is charged with criminal possession of a weapon.

The Boston Red Sox headed to the World Series. Boston beat Detroit 5-2 last night on the strength of Shane Victorino's grand slam. They eliminated the Tigers in six games. Next up, a rematch of the 2004 World Series against the Cardinals. Game one, October 23rd.

A new program will soon fire up design to dissect dangerous asteroids heading right for us. But there's one problem -- that's ahead.

And pair of reporters say they've got insight on how Lance Armstrong got away with doping for so long. You'll hear from them, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This will be a tense and dangerous week for the people of eastern Australia. Just take a look at this incredible video. This was shot by a volunteer firefighter on Thursday in the Blue Mountains northwest of Sydney. We spoke to Michael Green last hour about his harrowing video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GREEN, VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER: Well, we wanted to know if anyone else was home. And I believe we got to get out and I had been through that tougher terrain in large fire trucks. And I was just sort of in a funny state of mind. I've been kind of feeling and my wife started saying, "Gun it, gun it." Like speed up that means speed it up, speed it up. Because she could feel the intense heat coming -- the intense heat coming through the windows and then I realized, what am I doing. This is -- she wanted to turn back. We couldn't turn back. This is a fire truck, not a fire truck. So we went through it and it was quite scary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes and it does look scary. At least 200 homes have been lost. More than a hundred others have been damaged. A state of emergency has been declared in the greater Sydney area as crews battle more than 50 wild fires.

One of the consequences of the government shutdown NASA wasn't able to tell us about an asteroid as it passed four million miles from the earth. If it had been on a collision course with earth, we might not have known about it until it was too late. Of course NASA and other sky watchers are keenly interested in asteroids and how to detect them early.

One endeavor called Atlas proposes a system that would give one-week advance warning of an asteroid large enough to destroy a city -- and a really large asteroid, right? Atlas says it might be able to give us three weeks advance notice, which raises the question, then what?

Denton Ebel is a genealogist -- a geologist, I should say, who specializes in meteorites. He's also the curator at the American Museum of Natural History. So even if we know that the big one is coming, right, I mean could anything be done about that.

Welcome back by the way. What happened to the asteroid? You usually --

DENTON EBEL, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: But back in the collections where it belongs.

LEMON: All right.

EBEL: We study these rocks to understand what the heck those things out there are made of and what to do -- exactly what to do about them.

LEMON: But if we know, what can -- is there anything that can be done?

EBEL: Well people have thought about many different scenarios but three-weeks warning, no way. However, the thing that came by just a month ago it was actually discovered by a Ukrainian astronomer. That was 400 meters -- a quarter mile roughly in diameter.

LEMON: Right.

EBEL: So that would have maybe six or even more weeks warning with this new telescope.

LEMON: If something that big hit the earth what will happen?

EBEL: That is a country-calamity level disaster.

LEMON: Yes that's a big, what do we say it was 400 million miles away.

EBEL: It was four million miles away.

LEMON: Four million miles away.

EBEL: But just last December, Tutatas (ph) a bigger asteroid.

LEMON: I remember.

EBEL: 1.3 million -- or excuse me -- 1.3 -- what's millions among scientists. 1.3 mile diameter asteroid -- that's about the size of Central Park. That came the same distance from the earth.

LEMON: If you tell me it came like 500 miles away then I'd be like holy cow but --

(CROSSTALK)

EBEL: Well, in February, February 15th, we all remember that amazing footage of dash cams --

LEMON: Yes, I remember that.

EBEL: Yes but that same day was already people were on the look-out because we were watching for this big asteroid, about three times as big.

LEMON: You scared me there.

EBEL: Well about 50 meter diameter asteroid that was known, we had seen it a year ago.

LEMON: Right.

EBEL: And it came within 17,000 miles. That's inside the orbit of our satellites.

LEMON: Right, right.

EBEL: So we're getting into you know Sandra Bullock and Clooney territory here, with "Gravity". And see how fast things move out there.

LEMON: Ok. Well you said there was one issue. What was the one issue? You said that there was --

EBEL: The one issue is, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? This is not just something one nation can unilaterally decide. We're going to push it a little way this way. Well, then it's going to land somewhere else on the earth?

LEMON: Right.

EBEL: We have to know what we're doing.

LEMON: It's not like can you go into a bomb shelter when -- I mean because all bet are off.

EBEL: You can't get an insurance policy on planets. I don't know who you would get it from.

LEMON: Right.

EBEL: So the big guys -- but you know, watchers should be assured that it's not -- this is not something that's going to happen soon. The biggest, best-preserved meteorite crater on the earth -- the best preserved is only 50,000 -- 50,000 years ago.

LEMON: Yes.

EBEL: And it's is only a kilometer in diameter. A 30-meter object caused it. These things are very, very rare.

LEMON: Yes. I'm going with Prudential because it's like the rock.

EBEL: Ok good. It's the rock. Well these are rock -- these are space rocks.

LEMON: That's why I said it. Come on Denton. So how does this system work?

EBEL: Well, this system is up to eight telescopes. It's still on the planning stages. But they are setting up at least maybe more telescopes with hundred mega pixel cameras. It will take a full sky view twice every night. You need two views because you need to see things that move --

LEMON: Yes,

EBEL: -- against the things that don't move.

LEMON: Yes.

EBEL: And the things that move, watch out for it.

LEMON: We're not inviting you back unless you bring props.

EBEL: Props.

LEMON: We need light props.

EBEL: I can bring Mars.

LEMON: It's television.

EBEL: Rocks.

LEMON: Yes, bring them please.

EBEL: We have a piece in the museum of the meteorite of Chelyabinsk which was the -- they just last week got the big main mass out of the lake. Broke immediately into three pieces --

LEMON: Yes.

EBEL: Didn't look very impressive.

LEMON: Television -- television, bring us some props. Thank you.

EBEL: Good to see you again.

LEMON: All right. Denton, good to see you. Thank you very much -- Denton Ebel.

After Lance Armstrong finally came clean of doping, a lot of people asked how he hid it for so long. Two "Wall Street Journal" reporters say they've dug up information that might explain it. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're going to talk about Lance Armstrong, as a matter of fact. Lance Armstrong was once a seven-time Tour de France winner and one of the most inspiring athletes in the world. But his dramatic fall from grace has tarnished his legacy.

Because a new book called "Wheelmen" claims to give insight into how Armstrong got away with doping for so long and who helped him.

CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke to the authors. Both are reporters for the "Wall Street Journal".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA O'CONNELL, AUTHOR, "WHEELMEN": We've always viewed this as sort of a business story. It's more than just doping and cycling or doping and sport. We view this as a story about a business -- enterprise, essentially. And cheating was at the heart of it.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Did the fact that he also had this charity -- did he use that to kind of blunt criticism of him or suspicion of him?

REED ALBERGOTTI, AUTHOR, "WHEELMEN": Absolutely. I mean the Lance Armstrong Foundation, which is now known as the Live Strong Foundation after this scandal, really was his shield. I mean he was fighting cancer. He was -- he wasn't just an athlete. He was above all that. And that really, in the minds of so many of his fans and followers, protected him over those 14 years.

O'CONNELL: He would even say sometimes, you know, "I survived cancer, why would I take drugs." And people believed it. It gave him special status in the eyes of the public.

COOPER: What happens to him now? I mean he is still facing at least one lawsuit, correct?

ALBERGOTTI: Yes. And it's a big lawsuit --

COOPER: The Floyd Landis lawsuit.

ALBERGOTTI: Yes, Floyd Landis filed a lawsuit under the Federal False Claims Act as a whistle blower, as essentially blowing the whistle on the U.S. Postal Services violation of the contract. Lance Armstrong's team violated the contract by doping. And the U.S. Department of Justice has joined that lawsuit to the tune of potentially $120 million.

O'CONNELL: The lawsuit really points to some of the business themes that I think we bring up in the book. For instance, Armstrong argues that the U.S. Postal Service should have known. It got this marketing benefit by sponsoring the team because he won so many times. The Postal Service had the benefit of all media exposure of his victories.

And he is basically arguing in the lawsuit that the Postal Service should have known he was doping.

COOPER: It is obviously incredibly important to him to be able to compete in triathlons. That's one of the things he cannot do now, correct?

ALBERGOTTI: Correct.

COOPER: Was he doping in triathlons after his cycling career? Is that --

ALBERGOTTI: I think there have been allegations that he was. And he was still working with Michele Ferrari. But his side of the story, Lance's side of the story, is that he wasn't doping, he was just sort of helping with the training regimen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Tonight, CNN will have a lot more on Lance Armstrong. Watch "THE WORLD ACCORDING TO LANCE ARMSTRONG" 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Make sure you tune in.

You know this week is the CNN premiere -- the CNN premiere of "BLACKFISH". I've seen this documentary. It is really powerful. The documentary takes aim at the controversial issue of killer whales in captivity. I'm going to talk to its director, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This week, CNN presents the premiere of "BLACKFISH", a documentary tracing the history of killer whales in captivity leading up to the 2010 killing of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau. She was a 40 year-old senior trainer killed by an orca named Tilikum. The same orca was previously associated with the death of two other people.

I want you to watch clip now from "BLACKFISH" on the investigation into Brancheau's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DET. REVERE, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: This is Detective Revere of the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Today's date is February 24, 2010, the time is 4:16. In the room with me right now is Thomas George Tobin, is that correct?

THOMAS GEORGE TOBIN: Correct.

REVERE: Did you see any blood in the water or anything like that?

TOBIN: The last part of it, she was scalped. And there was no blood. So pretty much, we knew then that the heart was beating.

REVERE: Once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go of the --

TOBIN: He didn't.

REVERE: He never let go of the --

TOBIN: The arm?

REVERE: -- the arm?

TOBIN: He swallowed it.

REVERE: He swallowed it? So the arm is nowhere --

TOBIN: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: "BLACKFISH" goes back decades to explore the history of humans trapping killer whales for captivity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN CROWE, DIVER: It was a really exciting thing to do until everybody wanted to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were they telling you, you're going to do?

CROWE: Capture orcas.

HOWARD GARRETT, ORCA RESEARCHER: They had aircraft, they had spotters, they had speed boats. They had bombs they were throwing in the water. They were lighting their bombs with acetylene torches in their boats and throwing them as fast as they could to herd the whales into coves.

But the orcas had been caught before and they knew what was going on. They knew their young ones would be taken from them. So the adults without young went east into cul-de-sac. And the boats followed them, thinking they were all going that way while the mothers with babies went north.

But the capture teams had aircraft and they have to come up for air eventually. When they did, the capture teams alerted the boats and said no, they are going north, the ones with babies. So the boats, the speed boats caught them there and herded them in. And then they had fishing boats with nets that they would stretch across so none could leave. Then they could just pick out the young ones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: As I said, it's a very powerful documentary. I need to tell that you SeaWorld has been critical of the film ""BLACKFISH"" and issued this statement to CNN. "'BLACKFISH' is billed as a documentary but instead of a fair and balanced treatment of a complex subject the film is inaccurate and misleading and regrettably exploits a tragedy that remains a source of deep pain for Dawn Brancheau's family, friends and colleagues. Perhaps most important the film fails to mention SeaWorld's commitment to the safety of its team members and guests and to the care and welfare of its animals as demonstrated by the company's continual refinement and improvement to its killer whale facilities equipment and procedures both before and after the death of Dawn Brancheau."

We're going to have more of SeaWorld's reaction throughout the segment here on CNN.

So I want to bring in now the director of "BLACKFISH", of the documentary. It's filmmaker Gabriela Cowperthwaite. And Gabriella let's start with Tilikum, the killer whale -- first of all, before we start with Tilikum, what do you have to say to their response? GABRIELA COWPERTHWAITE, DIRECTOR, "BLACKFISH": Oh, wow, well it is a mouthful. The facts in the film are undisputable. I mean, SeaWorld just sort of controlled the message, I think, for 40 years and had kind of operated sort of unchecked for that time. And so they're going to be unhappy. I mean, they fought very hard to keep all these truths kind of, you know, beneath the surface. And none of this has ever come out in the general public until now.

LEMON: I have to tell you, I told the producers of this here at CNN that I wanted to see it before I spoke to you about it because I heard it was very powerful. And I tried to watch it on the plane but the Wi- Fi was too low. So I've been watching it and re-watching it -- I was watching it on my iPhone before you came in.

I want to talk more about Tilikum because Tilikum is sort of just the beginning here -- right. It's where you started the documentary. The killer whale that took the life of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau.

Tell us how Tilikum grew up in captivity and what type of equipment he was in and did he always live at SeaWorld because I understand he was in a small, confined metal space for most of his life.

COWPERTHWAITE: Right. The module --

LEMON: Yes.

COWPERTHWAITE: Yes. I mean he was captured off the coast of Iceland about 1983. Everybody thinks. And he was put, believe it or not, in the helm, like the hull of a ship. For a year. Then he came to a place call Sea Landa Pacific. So his first marine park was Sea landa Pacific. It is no longer around. But there, he was actually the sub dominant male. So he was raked which is when a killer whale, takes its teeth and scrapes it down a whale - raked by the other whales, repeatedly. So he was sort of bullied constantly.

LEMON: Wasn't that a training technique sort of - if (INAUDIBLE) didn't do what he was supposed to do, the other whales will rake him.

COWPERTHWAITEE: That's right. If he wasn't doing the behavior or the tricks call it properly, the other whales would sort of beat up on him. So he was just always beat up and sort of bloody. At night they put them in this module where they were all sort of touching each other. They couldn't swim or move. No light, no sound. And they were kept in there for essentially two thirds of their life.

LEMON: The trainers said when they had to put the whales in those modules at night, it would just break their hearts, because they knew it would be hours before they would be let out again and exactly eat again. Do you think the previous environment, do you think that contributed to Ms. Brancheau's death?

COWPERTHWAITEE: Well, it is hard to think of any other conclusion, you know, I mean when you think about sort of this male whales in the wild swim with their mothers. They're in their family pods for their entire lives. So he was sort of plucked probably from that family. From that mother. Put into a strange environment in Iceland for a year. Nobody really knows what happened in that year. And then he came it a park where he was beat up the entire time.

LEMON: So I wanted to read one more response from Sea World. Sea World says this about your film.

It says "to promote its bias that killer whales should not be maintained in a zoological setting, the film paints a distorted picture that withhold s from viewers key facts about Sea World, among them that Sea World is one of the world's most respected zoological institutions and that Sea World rescues, rehabilitates and returns to the wild hundreds of wild animals every year, and that Sea World commits millions of dollars annually to conservation and scientific research." What is your reaction?

COWPERTHWAITEE: You know, they do some conservation. I'm told, I don't have the exact data on that but I think out of their $2 billion a year that they make, they contribute around, I think, it's around one percent. It's sort of paltry. I think, you know, generally understood that way. In terms of rehabilitation, release, they actually do, do a good job of that with sea turtles primarily and manatees.

LEMON: What would you do to rectify the situation because obviously, not just Americans but around the world people love to go to see shows to see whales and dolphins and they love to do that. Would you get rid of it all together? Would you - what would you change?

COWPERTHWAITEE: Yes, I never thought, going into the movie, we never want to do a hatchet job on Sea World. In fact, we were hopeful, I guess, that in my mind that they would be spearheading the sea sanctuary movement. Which is essentially cordoning off part of the ocean cove with a net and retiring these captive whales to this ocean cove, for the first time in their lives be actually killer whales in an ocean environment, experience the natural rhythms of the ocean and this could be a profit-making endeavor. I mean you can't take the whales that have been in captivity and just toss them into the ocean. Their teeth are intact, they don't know how to hunt.

LEMON: Right.

COWPERTHWAITEE: But you can put them in a sea sanctuary kind of monitor their behavior and their health, even feed them dead fish, if they need it. But they're in a dignified environment and in this dignified environment people could just come and visit and you know, Sea World could charge a fee for this.

LEMON: Yes, thank you. Appreciate it. Gabriela, again, as I said, really it's a really powerful documentary. It's going to air on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Appreciate that. You can see "Blackfish" this Thursday CNN, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and see for yourself what everybody is talking about, everybody is talking about this. And if you once you watch it, it will change you. You will be talking about it as well.

Not everyone agrees with how "Blackfish" portrays this story. You've heard from Sea World. Next, you're going to hear from a conservation director at the Phoenix Aquarium. You're going to hear his view.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. So we're talking about CNN's premier of "Blackfish," a controversial film on killer whales in captivity. The film was inspired in part by the tragic death of 40-year-old Dawn Brancheau, a senior trainer at Sea World Orlando. She was brutally killed by an Orca in captivity in 2010. "Blackfish" argues that perhaps humans should rethink keeping massive killer whales in captivity and captivity for entertainment purposes.

The film has drawn criticism in some quarters. I want do bring in now Grey Stafford, animal trainer and conservation director of the Wildlife World Aquarium in Phoenix. I should say, Dr. Grey. I know you haven't seen "Blackfish" yet but what do you think of the film's premise?

DR. GREY STAFFORD, ANIMAL TRAINER AND CONSERVATION DIRECTOR: Well, Don, I have some concerns about it. Because obviously it takes a certain point of view that I don't agree with. I think one of the messages that's lost in all this commotion is the care and concern that we animal trainers give to our animals. And it is based upon exclusive use of positive reinforcement. You know, I'm holding an American alligator right here.

This is a species that when you and I were kids was on the brink of extinction. But because of a lot of like-minded individuals and organizations including zoos and aquariums got together and said "Hey, it's probably a good idea we try to save the species." I'm happy to report that alligators have not only rebounded but are thriving in the wild and in human care.

LEMON: I can't believe you're sitting there holding an alligator. I come from Louisiana, and we were told to be afraid, have a healthy respect for alligators. And don't go near them. How can you sit there in the studio and be comfortable?

STAFFORD: And Don, I want to be clear. That's excellent advice that you received growing up. I would not approach a wild alligator quite like this. This little fellow here is named Captain Crunch. He has been part of our training program since he was a small little hatchling. Because of the relationship we built with him is something that is not necessarily known for great intelligence. Which I disagree with. I think alligators and (INAUDIBLE) in general have great intelligence.

But it just illustrates the kind of care and concern that we can give to all sorts of species, including killer whale, and learn from them. But also help inspire generations to come to care about these animals. That's why I think zoos and aquariums matter and why the training programs going on today are so important. And illustrate the care and concern that we humans are capable when we really try.

LEMON: I know this is an inappropriate question. But I'm sure people are home are wondering, if there is a Captain Crunch, is there like a Fruity Pebbles somewhere or something?

STAFFORD: Well, our institution has something like 6,000 animals so I will certainly put on the list for future. Yes.

LEMON: Are people simply foolish to believe that massive whales can be trained to obey human commands. I mean isn't that a bit of hubris there?

STAFFORD: Well, actually, I take the other tack. I'm completely humbled to work around these great animals. When I started my career, I started as killer whale trainer a few years before Tillicum came to the United States. I appreciate their massive size and I think if we have done anything it is portray them as these intelligent, keen and wonderful creatures, which they are.

But let's not forget that they are big strong predators. They're the top predator in the sea. And any animal that you work with, whether it is an alligator or a crocodile or a killer whale is capable of inflicting injury of some kind. And I think one of the - other point I would make here is I think we need to maintain a little perspective. Losing Dawn was a tragedy. And it is one trainer too many. But the reality is, it is much safer work -

LEMON: I wanted to ask you about that.

STAFFORD: Well, what I would say is it is much safer occupation than some very common occupations including yours. I mean, look at how many journalist have been killed over the past 20 years? Something well over a thousand. So I think we need to add just some perspective here and realize with modern positive reinforcement based training, we build that trust, we build that relationship. Which allows us to learn from these animals and teach them to participate. Not only in their own individual care but hopefully indirectly their species' survival.

LEMON: When you see her swimming with the killer whale. I mean, do you - Is that - I mean, should we be doing that? Should people be doing that. Do you think Dawn Brancheau did anything wrong during her interaction with the whale that ended her life?

STAFFORD: Well, I wasn't there and I did not witness Dawn's demise. I am familiar with the safety protocols at Sea World and other institutions, including my own. I can tell that you that staff safety and animal safety is always a priority. And one of the great things again about training with positive reinforcement like all professional marine animals trainers do, is it lowers the intensity.

So if something does happen, if there is some confusion, first of all, we try to prepare the animals for all sorts of new learning opportunities but if something does happen, in my experience, the intensity tends to be less. Now that doesn't mean the risks are always going to be zero. They are not. These are big animals. Even if all goes well, things can happen. But the safety protocols are pretty thorough and the value of the work that's done by marine mammal trainers and zookeepers who use positive reinforcement helps to inspire future generations. It contributes to science. Your previous guest talked about the conservation value and the things at Sea World and other places have contributed. Well, marine animal parks have been contributing for 40 years to the basic knowledge of these animals that wouldn't otherwise have just studying wild (INAUDIBLE). LEMON: Doctor, I have to go but it looks like - yes, America, if you're watching, that is an alligator live on CNN. I think just did a death roll in your hand. Did it not?

STAFFORD: And the reason why you should leave the wild ones off to the side, and only handle ones that have been conditioned with positive reinforcement like this fellow.

LEMON: The death roll. There we go. Thank you, we appreciate you, doctor.

STAFFORD: Thank you.

LEMON: Thursday is your chance to see "Blackfish." Thursday is your chance to see "Blackfish." Decide for yourself. It premiers again this Thursday on CNN, 9:00 Eastern. See for yourself what everyone is talking about or will be talking about as well.

We just got this in, just minutes ago. It's brand new - you've heard that the two convicted murders who got out of prison on phony documents, they have been captured. Next, we will show you the moment of the capture. Cell phone video caught it all. We've got that for you.

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LEMON: Back to the hour's top story here on CNN. We have some brand new video, never before seen of the arrest of the two convicted killers who escaped from a maximum security prison.

CNN's Nick Valencia in Panama City, Florida. Nick, talk to me about this new video.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, take a look at this video that we just obtained moments ago of the exact moment the manhunt ended for Charles Walker and Joseph Jenkins. It is dramatic video.

I just got off the phone with the eyewitness who shot it. She tells me that she was in her motel, staying at that motel where Walker and Jenkins were arrested by authorities. And she said she had just turned on the news and saw the story about the manhunt in Florida. She went outside and she was surrounded by police.

The Florida Department of law enforcement, the U.S. Marshal Service were converging at that hotel. They told her to get back inside. She said she was very scared and the whole thing lasted about an hour. She said, she couldn't think of a better way that this manhunt could have ended but really dramatic video that shows the exact moment that Walker and Jenkins were taken into custody.

We should remind our viewers that they were unarmed when they were taken into custody and they were arrested without incident after weeks of being on the run. This incredible video that we just got our hands on. Tremendous work by our assignment desk for tracking this woman down. Don? LEMON: Yes. Unbelievable. Can you imagine, Nick, being at this hotel when all of this are going down and there are the two fugitives, two escaped inmates right there among you.

Nick Valencia, thank you very much. Nick has been covering this story for a while now. We appreciate it, Nick.

Your "Weekly Five" is next.

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ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With your "Weekly Five." I'm Rosa Flores.

Wedding bells will ring across New Jersey as same sex marriage licenses are issued first thing Monday morning. The state's high court Friday refused the governor's request for an injunction. Newark mayor and newly elected U.S. Senator Cory Booker plans to marry several couples in his city shortly after midnight.

Tuesday, taking a bite out of Apple. Rumors are running wild the new iPads are coming. Capturing a lot of buzz, the devices will feature a crispier retina display and new colored devices including gold. When it was released the gold iPhone 5 was a smash hit and hard to find making it extremely popular. Reports say the same could happen with the gold iPad.

Are you ready for the World Series? The table is set for major league baseball's fall classic. First pitch is Wednesday when the Boston Red Sox play the St. Louis Cardinals.

On Thursday, the CNN film "Blackfish" premiers right here. The movie traces the 39-year history of killer whales in captivity leading up to a 2010 incident in which an experienced SeaWorld trainer was killed by the 12,000 pound orca.

Friday, good news for furloughed federal workers. They start seeing back pay. The federal government shutdown froze their paychecks for about three weeks. About 400,000 workers were furloughed during the 16-day shutdown. And that's your "Weekly Five."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thank you, Rosa.

Well, tonight Anthony Bourdain visits a small restaurant in Johannesburg that provides a large taste of Africa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST: On today's menu -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made this for you. They usually use -

BOURDAIN: Beef stewed with melon and pumpkin seeds. (INAUDIBLE), the ubiquitous cornmeal porridge that made to a texture more crumbly than (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language). Pickle and with cassava.

BOURDAIN: Good taste. Oh, yes. Awesome. Good food here.

Menu change every day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the idea.

BOURDAIN: You do a lot of great food in a small space.

(voice-over): There are no seats. His customers remain part of the constantly unfolding street theater of (INAUDIBLE). They mingle, talk, observe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thank you, Piers. I haven't eaten in hours. I mean, Piers. Anthony Bourdain. I've been tweeting Piers's executive producer. Thank you, Anthony. I haven't eaten in hours and now I'm hungry. Watch more of Anthony's South Africa trip tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

What if you could buy stock in an athlete. Would you? That story is next.

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LEMON: You can now buy stock in a jock. Zain Asher shows us how it works.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAIN ASHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the field, he's explosive. Off of it, charming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your favorite food?

ARIAN FOSTER, ATHLETE: My mama cooked some long enchiladas.

ASHER: And if one company had its way, he'll soon be a publicly traded asset.

BUCK FRENCH, FANTEX CEO: We're interested in working with Arian because he has attributes that are beyond just being a pro-bowl running back. His approach to life and things off the fields makes him an attractive candidate for us.

ASHER: Star NFL running back Arian Foster is the first athlete to sign up with Fantex, a San Francisco based start up that will allow fans to buy and sell shares of their favorite athletes. Fantex will pay Foster $10 million up front. In exchange, investors get the opportunity to earn 20 percent of his Foster's income, including money from playing contracts, endorsements and appearances.

Fans can buy a stake at $10 a share. They also have to invest a minimum of $50. But veteran sports consultant Robert Tuchman is punting the Foster stock.

ROBERT TUCHMAN, PRESIDENT, GOVIVA: It's very difficult to monetize athlete's brands post-playing days. It's very difficult to monetize athlete's brands while they're playing.

ASHER: Fantex says it's looking for talented athletes with significant growth potential.

FRENCH: How you play or the performance of you play gives you a platform in which you have a voice and a marketplace which impacts your brand.

ASHER: But what's in it for the athlete?

For players, this is a complete home run for Arian Foster. I mean, he's basically buying himself insurance in terms of his playing game days.

ASHER (on camera): So why Arian Foster? Well, he's one of the NFL's biggest stars. His brand has surged with the popularity of fantasy football. He's a must start running back for team owners. And Fantex wants to make him a must buy for investors.

(voice-over): Investors, though, should tread carefully. Fantex lists 84 risk factors on its website including the risk of athletes getting injured and unforeseen issues with its trading platform. If Fantex doesn't raise enough money in the initial offering it says it's scrapping the deal. Still, the company is bullish about bringing sports investing to the average Joe.

FRENCH: We really embrace this concept of him being a trail blazer. And it fits his brand and how we see him. And we think that there is a desire for that out in the marketplace.

ASHER: Zain Asher, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: OK. Well, I'm Don Lemon in New York. "Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown" begins in just a few seconds here on CNN. Thank you so much for watching.

I'll see you back here next week if not next weekend.

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