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Reports of NSA Spying Angers Allies; Manhunt in Oklahoma; World Series Rivalry Heats Up; Report: Obama Unaware Of Spying

Aired October 28, 2013 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: How will the U.S. handle the allegations?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Jailbreak -- four inmates make a daring escape, now the all-out manhunt to find them. They are considered armed and dangerous.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Olympic task. Three months until the winter games kick off in Russia, but new concern this morning, they might not be ready in time. We're live from Sochi.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: What you need to know --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Got people working overtime, lose capacity and address these problems every single day.

ANNOUNCER: What you just have to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This game is over! And the Red Sox win it, 4-2!

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. It's Monday, October 28th.

First up, foreign leaders, even allies reportedly under the prying eye of the NSA. "The Wall Street Journal" reports this morning that the U.S. was eavesdropping on dozens of world leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "The Journal" says President Obama was unaware for years.

Chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto is in Washington this morning.

Good morning, Jim.

CHRIS SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

The real question is what did the president know, to what extent and when did it know it? "Wall Street Journal" reporting he was unaware until this summer. German newspaper reporting he knew back in 2010, something the White House denies.

What is clear is that the White House is reviewing this policy at the direction of the president. To do that, the president formed two new groups, his review group on intelligence and communications technology, that's going to look at getting the balance right between privacy concerns and security concerns, a second group going to focus right in on civil liberties, privacy and civil liberties oversight board to give some of the oversight many of the critics in the surveillance has said was lacking. And the White House in effect acknowledging here there was overreach. But even as they make these moves, every day there's another revelation about spying, including some of our closest allies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The newest Edward Snowden documents reveal more spying on America's closest allies. In Spain, reports the NSA listening in on 60 million phone calls in a single month. And in Germany, the "Bild am Sonntag" newspaper reports that President Obama was briefed by NSA Chief Keith Alexander about spying on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's calls back in 2010, contradicting White House assurances the president was not aware of the extent of the surveillance.

The NSA quickly denied the report, telling CNN, "General Alexander did not discuss with President Obama in 2010 an alleged foreign intelligence operation involving German Chancellor Merkel, nor has he ever discussed alleged operations involving Merkel."

The NSA's denial a clear step beyond the White House's willingness, up to now, only to deny present and future monitoring.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can tell you that the president assured chancellor that the United States is not monitoring and will not monitor the communications of the chancellor.

SCIUTTO: German intelligence officials are expected to come to the U.S. to challenge their counterparts on the spying after a German official accused the U.S. of breaking, quote, "German law on German soil."

But House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers defended the NSA surveillance on CNN Sunday, saying it was both well-regulated and essential to keeping Americans and Europeans safe from terrorism.

REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), HOUSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: I think the bigger news story here would be, Candy, if the United States intelligence services weren't trying to collect information that would protect U.S. interests both home and abroad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: The administration still assessing the damage and their focus now on more revelations to come affecting even more sensitive, secret intelligence sharing relationships, Kate, and those can cause even more damage than the ones we've seen so far.

BOLDUAN: All right. Jim, thank you so much for that --

Let's bring in Fareed Zakaria to talk more about this. Of course, Fareed is the host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" and editor at large for "TIME" magazine.

A great show this weekend, by the way. We were just talking about that.

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: -- on this exact topic.

So, Angela Merkel says that the relationship, the U.S. relationship with European nations has been severely shaken. Do these reports that continue to come out, do you think it really is hurting or threatening a relationship with some of our most basic key allies?

ZAKARIA: I think it is. Look, some of this is you know, what people are calling the Claude Rains routine, I'm shocked to discover there's gambling going on, spying. Spying is the second oldest profession in the world.

Two things have changed though. One is just the explosion of technology, big data, the ability to find all this stuff and the U.S.'s incredible cutting edge on that, and the second was 9/11, which in a sense freed all the constraints that we have typically felt about collecting this kind of information, particularly from spies because we felt like we need to know everything about everything, and those two forces have, frankly, made us sloppy about this.

We should not be, in my opinion, spying on our closest allies' heads of government. It's one thing to try to find Al Qaida sleeper cells in Hamburg but you don't need to tap Angela Merkel's cell phone to figure that out.

BOLDUAN: We hear from the administration and members of Congress, everyone spies on everyone but does it feel we're in a different place, we're kind of in an uncharted territory here with us?

ZAKARIA: It does precisely because of the technologies that make it possible for to you listen to anyone, anywhere at any time and you have to come up with some new rules of the road. The United States is often caught in this kind of hypocritical position we're trying to enforce rules for everybody else and we say we can't play by those rules. You know, we have nuclear weapons but we don't want other people to have nuclear weapons.

But this is a similar thing. The hypocrisy can only happen for so long. You have to, in some way, show that you are being governed by some set of rules.

So, I think the administration is doing the right thing -- review the policy, get into conversations with the Europeans and come up with some rules of the road. Of course, they realize everyone spies. They spy on us but I think what they're trying to say is look, even within that, you know, let's have some kind of rules of war, if you will.

BOLDUAN: I do want to get your take on Peter King, congressman from New York. He had said something pretty interesting on "Meet the Press" this weekend. He said the administration needs to stop apologizing for the NSA's tactics.

You said you think the administration is doing the right thing in reviewing the process. How are they handling the fallout, do you think?

ZAKARIA: Not very well. They're being surprisingly inarticulate about it. They should explain the motivation behind this has been things like terrorism, trying to figure out what's going on. One of the reasons they are is they don't want to get into specifics by articulating something they seem to be conforming and from what I've heard the stuff about Merkel's cell phone is a little more complicated and the reports are not accurate, whatever. They've got to come up with a way to stand before the world and say look, this is what we, this is what we do in general terms. This is why we do it.

Even if they're reviewing the policy, they need to have some general explanation that makes sense of it. If I were them, I would list 20 terrorist attacks that were thwarted as a result of this.

BOLDUAN: Now, France and Germany, they are sending over some senior intelligence officials to Washington this week to try to have a no spy accord or work on something. Is that going to be enough to try to settle the anger or calm the anger and really the outrage that's going felt around the world for this?

ZAKARIA: I think it's a good question. At a governmental level, I think we will be able to settle the anger, but clearly, what is happening here is European politicians are responding to a public that has become quite distrustful of the United States, views it as a kind of 800-pound gorilla that's out of control and we need to think about that.

American legitimacy, our influence around the world depends in large part on the idea that we are sort of rule based, we observe some of the kind of rules we want other people to observe and that's why I say we've got to think about, and the rewards here of spying on Merkel, you're not learning that much, frankly, that you didn't know, so --

BOLDUAN: Not so surprising.

ZAKARIA: Precisely. The truth of the matter is the level of high policy particularly with democracies most of the time, you have a fairly good sense of what the leader is trying to do. If you're trying to find terrorists, that's fine. But again I'm not sure how tapping Merkel's phone gets you there.

BOLDUAN: I think you're presenting many of the questions the administration needs to face now -- not later, that's for sure.

Fareed, it's great to see you as always. Great to get your perspective. Thank you so much. ZAKARIA: Pleasure.

BOLDUAN: Chris?

CUOMO: There is a manhunt underway for four escaped inmates, the men are considered armed and dangerous. Oklahoma authorities say the mad cap escape from the local jail was something out of holiday's "Shawshank Redemption."

George Howell is in Anadarko, Oklahoma, with the very latest.

Good morning, George. What do we know?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning.

So, what we know those inmates were being held here at this detention center to be shipped off to a state prison but clearly they have plans of their own, a secret plan to literally slip through the cracks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL (voice-over): A desperate search is under way this morning for four inmates after their bold escape Sunday morning from this detention center in Anadarko, Oklahoma about an hour outside Oklahoma City. Their names Dylan Three Irons, Prime Brown, Anthony Mendonca, Triston Cheadle, all considered armed and dangerous.

GENE CAIN, CADDO COUNTY SHERIFF: Any time anytime, you know, anybody breaks out of prison, you're going to say they are dangerous. We're not for sure they are armed. You got think they might be. We know they wasn't when they left. We don't know what they picked up after.

HOWELL: Each man was sentenced on criminal charges ranging from burglary to meth possession and parole violation the details of their spectacular jail break read like a film script, a real life "Shaw Shank Redemption." Officials say the men busted through a maintenance hatch above the shower in the jail. They crawled through a pipe space beneath the roof where the air-conditioning and plumbing are located. Then they knocked out a cement block to get them to another room. That took them to an unlocked side door, which they simply pushed opened to their freedom

CAIN: We have officers checking abandoned vehicles, checking the residence where they might have relatives living. We're doing that right now.

HOWELL: Caddo County Sheriff Gene Cain says authorities only realized the escape after they were tipped off by someone who saw the inmates walking near the courthouse still wearing their orange jump suits.

CAIN: We immediately started a headcount on our prisoners and we did find that we had four missing.

HOWELL: The men later ditched the jumpsuits which officers found. But there is still no sign of the escapees and that has residents here worried. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope they're not at my house when I get back. So, I hope. You prepare yourself. I'm a gun owner. I have been all my life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL: So, did these men know exactly what they were doing or just get lucky here? Certainly that's a question these investigators will be looking into. We understand this detention center was built some two years ago but these maintenance hatches, these doors were supposed to be sealed shut. They weren't.

Investigators clearly at this point looking into it, they do not have any leads in the case. Chris and Kate, they're asking anyone with information to call them to help track these men down.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Hard to believe they could pull something like this off but clearly they did.

George, great to see you. Thank you so much.

HOWELL: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Michaela is here with much more of the headlines this morning.

PEREIRA: All right. Late breaking news overnight: Michael Jackson's doctor freed from jail after just two years. The L.A. sheriff's office says Conrad Murray was taken through a back door and whisked away in a sheriff's car to avoid media attention and Michael Jackson fans. Murray was convicted in 2011 of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death. Murray hopes to get his medical licenses reinstated so he can once again treat patients.

The Obamacare roll-out website hit another snag. A key data center which helps determine eligibility crashed Sunday, bringing enrollment in all 50 states to a screeching halt. It's likely going to be another issue Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius will need to answer for when she testifies before a House committee Wednesday.

Felony assault charges have been filed against a ride operator at the North Carolina state fair. Officials say Timothy Tutterrow tampered with safety devices after the Vortex ride was inspected. That ride malfunctioned leading several people thrown to the ground and injured. Tutterrow is being held on $225,000 bail and due back in court later today.

Police in Lake Elsinore, California, answered the age old question why did the chicken cross the road. An officer served as a decoy at a crosswalk, dressed in a bright yellow chicken suit while motor officers monitored to catch unsuspecting drivers who did not stop at the pedestrian crossing. In total, 31 drivers were cited for failing to give way to a pedestrian in a crosswalk which begs the question, if you're not going to stop for a giant chicken in the middle of the road, what are you going to stop for? BOLDUAN: Double ticket for that one.

CUOMO: That's a provocative question you posed there and I have no answer.

PEREIRA: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Just like the age-old question, why did the chicken cross the road?

CUOMO: That's right.

PEREIRA: To catch unsuspecting motorists.

CUOMO: Now we know. I guess it does have an answer.

Indra Petersons, I hope you're satisfied.

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, very satisfied. You're not as good as your costume though, Chris.

All right. We're going to take you outside. We're going to show that huge system you may have heard that's been going on in the U.K., also portions of Europe. We're talking powerful winds, some gusts reported strong as 100 miles per hour.

The reason this is so important, if you are traveling east today, this system still making its way through France, and Denmark, look for many delays reported at Heathrow yesterday and we're still seeing the ongoing delays.

Out here on the East Coast not so bad, temperatures are more moderate today. In fact, temperatures just a hint above normal. It's not going to last. By Tuesday or Wednesday, we're going back about 10 degrees below normal, as the cold front makes its way -- look for 50s tomorrow, Boston, New York, Philly, even in through -- well, actually, D.C., you're good, 63 tomorrow, but still below normal.

Now, if you go into the Southeast, that's where temperatures are above normal. So, beautiful. I mean, it was so chilly for the beginning of your weekend and then finally, you quickly rebounded and went past that -- 76 degrees today in Atlanta, gorgeous for you considering especially that it is fall.

Now, where it is not so beautiful that is in the Pacific Northwest, complete pattern shift here. It will start to get warm in the Northeast and cool off significantly out into the Pacific Northwest. We're talking 20, 25 degrees below normal and why not throw in some snow, right? We're talking heavy amounts of snow, even 18 inches possible through Montana and Wyoming and even rain in southern California. So, looking for that.

But more importantly what is everyone watching today and what do they want to know, weather-wise? Of course, the big game and it's beautiful, 61 degrees. The question is, are any of us up for it tonight? BOLDUAN: One of us is, John Berman.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: That's why he looks so sleepy today.

PETERSONS: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

PETERSONS: I'm cold. Grandma is sleeping.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Your grandma is sleeping. Thank you, Indra.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Coming up next on NEW DAY, it's the World Series play everyone is talking about, speaking of the weather, was the third baseman obstructing the runner? The controversial call cost the Red Sox the game. Sportsman-like debate is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. The chilly October air no match for the heat in this year's World Series. Everyone is talking about this play, right there, you're seeing it the stumble, the call at the plate out, no, safe. Why? Obstruction. That's what happened, wound up losing the Red Sox the game. Understandable, sour grapes, how do you feel?

Let's hear about it from both sides. Mike Salk, co-host of "Salk & Holley" and Randy Karraker on WEEI Sports radio in Boston and Randy Karraker, host of "The Fast Lane" on 101 ESPN in St. Louis. Randy, Mike, thank you both for joining us.

MIKE SALK, CO-HOT, "SALK & HOLLEY," WEEI BOSTON: Of course.

RANDY KARRAKER, HOST, "THE FAST LANE" 101 ESPN ST. LOUIS: Thank you very much for having us. We appreciate it.

CUOMO: So, help us understand the rivalry here that means even sports commentators like yourselves shouldn't be sitting in such close proximity. Randy, give us a little background here.

KARRAKER: We shouldn't and this goes back generations from the Cardinals beating the Red Sox way back in the 1940s in World Series and of course in 1967, and we fell in love with our football team in the late 1990s. We had the greatest show on turf, and lo and behold, it's the New England Patriots, Mike Saltz' New England Patriots that ended that little mini-dynasty that the Rams (ph) had going with spy gate, we might add.

And the big thing for the Cardinals, the thing that the dagger to the heart is the 2004 World Series. Cardinal fans, they can handle losing, well, they don't like losing World Series, it's never their fault. But, the only time the Cardinals have been swept in a World Series in our lifetime was by the Boston Red Sox in 2004. So, yes, there's a little bit of rivalry.

SALK: Yes. Quite frankly, I asked not to be seated so close, Chris, it's not on me.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: All right. So, now, we get to the big play. All right. Do this for me, Mike. Take us through what the play was in quick fashion and then we'll talk about why it's become a controversy.

SALK: Well, I'll tell, you this play is as bizarre as any you're going to see in baseball, right? I mean, it's an unbelievable -- first of all an unbelievable play by Dustin Pedroia at second base. Nobody will ever remember what he did when it is great play to throw around at the plate (ph).

And then I don't know what happened to Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the captor, lost his mind as the runners run -- his run in the third base, decided to throw it, shouldn't have thrown it. The third baseman should have caught it, didn't catch it. Now, he's lying on the ground and Alan Craig has to jump over him in order to go home. Even though he was out, he is automatically called safe and bang-bang play by obstruction of the runner, it's absolutely 100 percent the right call.

CUOMO: All right. So, I know both of you guys agree that the rule is in the book. It was properly called. Here's the question, though, to you, Randy, do you make that call at this point of a World Series game? It's never about the rule. It's about the application. Should this have been called?

KARRAKER: I think there's a couple of things. Number one, I think, in basketball, and in hockey in playoffs, at the end, officials consciously swallow the whistle, but in this situation, number one, it was so obvious. If you're a competent umpire, you have to call it. And number two, I don't think umpires decide, you know what, it's the ninth inning of a World Series game. We're going to decide to change the rules. We're going to decide to get away from the spirit and the letter of the law.

They just don't do that in baseball. Jim Joyce said the other night, it was instinctive. He can't just decide, you know, what, I'm not going to call this.

CUOMO: So, what do you think, Mike? What's the big complaint? We don't want games decided by refs or umps. We want the teams to decide. What should take on that here?

SALK: Well, look, in other sports you're right. I mean, the umpires -- they sometimes think that they're the show. They're not the show. It's about the players, but you know what? They prevented a run in this case. It would have been a huge mistake to allow St. Louis to not win the game when they clearly deserved it. Craig would have scored on the play were it not for what Will Middlebrooks did. It leads you into the next conversation about intent. Was he intending to obstruct the runner and the great thing about this rule is it does not matter. He is incumbent on him to get out of the way. How can he possibly get out of the way? He's lying on the ground.

Easy answer, catch the ball. As soon as you failed to catch the ball, Will Middlebrooks, you are at fault. It's same thing in hockey. It's the same thing in football as well. He hit the receiver across the middle in the head, they say, hey, I didn't mean to hit him in the head. Too bad, it's incumbent on you.

CUOMO: Last question, even though the Salks, you know, wound up winning the last game, right, when they picked off the guy at first base, could this have been a pivotal point? Could this be the decision that makes a difference in this series? Do you think that the St. Louis Cardinals, Randy, will now go on to win because of that play because the momentum has shifted in some secret way, baseball way, even if they lost the game the following night?

KARRAKER: No, I'm a big devotee of the old adage that momentum in baseball is your next day's starting pitcher. I can't imagine a team beating Adam Wainwright twice in the series. And we all know what Michael Wacha has done. If the cardinals are going to win, the tipping point is going to either come tomorrow night or is going to come Wednesday night in Boston with starting --

SALK: Yes. Chris, I hate to disappoint a proud New York family like yours, but I don't think that was going to be the turning point. Game six is usually the fantastic game in a World Series. I would expect we will see something in that game to trump whatever happened in game three and game four.

CUOMO: I mean, you have to understand, for me, I don't even see this as a story. If the Yankees are plying, if the Yankees aren't playing, I can't believe everybody is watching the series. I was shocked. No, guys, Randy, Mike --

SALK: Very typical.

KARRAKER: Don't come after me. It's only our fourth World Series in the last ten years. How many have the Yankees been in?

CUOMO: All right, all right. I can't hear you. We've had a communications problem. Randy, Mike, all the best. Good luck to both of you in the series. It's been great to watch and thanks for joining us on NEW DAY.

All right. So, what do you think, not about what they were just saying about me, that's completely irrelevant, but tweet us with the #NEWDAY. What do you think of the call? Who's going to win the series? -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. Chris, thanks so much. Coming up next on NEW DAY, an update on that sensational trial of Utah doctor accused of killing his wife to be with his mistress. And that mistress is due back on the stand today. More on that case coming up.

Also ahead, the CNN film, "Blackfish" has been drawing quite a lot of intense reaction. We're going to take a look at what the world is saying about this film.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: And welcome back to NEW DAY. It is time now for the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.

At number one, "The Wall Street Journal" says the NSA was eavesdropping on 35 foreign leaders, but President Obama did not know about it. The program stopped when the White House found out this summer.

Yet again, troubles with the Obamacare website. A glitch in the data center knocked out part of the site preventing consumers from signing up for coverage.

Breaking news overnight, Dr. Conrad Murray now out of prison after serving his two years of his four-year sentence. He was convicted of manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson.

The search is on in Oklahoma for four inmates who staged a brazen escape from detention center through a shower. Police say the men went through a trapped door then into a crawlway and out of the jail.

And a number five, the world of music is remembering legendary rock pioneer, Lou Reed, dead at age 71. He was a founding member of the Velvet Underground. He's also credited with inspiring countless musicians.

We're always updating those five things to know, so be sure to go to NEWDAYCNN.com for the very latest -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Michaela.

Let's update you on the trial of Martin MacNeill, the Utah doctor accused of drugging his wife, killing her so he could be with his mistress. And now, the jury has heard from that mistress as well as two of the doctor's daughters. A sensational trial. Let's bring in Stephanie Elam with very the latest. Good morning, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- daughter of Martin and Michelle MacNeill --

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We met online.

ELAM (voice-over): Gypsy Willis testified on Friday. She's the alleged mistress and the motive, the prosecution says, for Martin MacNeill to kill his wife, Michelle. Charges MacNeill has denied.