Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Toronto Mayor Apologizes But Won't Resign; Morsi Defiant in Court Appearance; Missing NYU Student Found; L.A. Police Missed LAX Suspect By Minutes; New Details in NFL Bullying Case;

Aired November 04, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Toronto's mayor denying smoking crack but admitting to doing a lot of other stupid things. Now he's asking police to release that video that everyone has been talking about.

Also this hour, the disturbing chain of events in the hours before the bullets started flying in the terminal at LAX.

Plus the warning from the suspect's family that may have come just minutes too late.

And from mystery disappearance to miracle rescue, a student falls ten stories before getting wedged in a narrow shaft between his college dorm and a parking garage and he stays that way for 36 hours.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It is Monday, November 4th, welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Mistakes? You bet. Public drunkenness? Sure. Unspecified stupidity? No doubt about it.

But the embattled and sometimes combative mayor of Toronto says we should not be mistaking contrition for something called resignation. Rob Ford says he is not going anywhere.

And that alleged video of his honor appearing to smoke crack from a crack pipe? Mayor Ford says everybody should see it, not just the Toronto police.

We're going to get the legal view of this in just a moment, but first, the very latest on this amazing story from CNN's Nick Valencia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After months of bombshell headlines alleging crack cocaine abuse and erratic behavior, it was what Toronto mayor Rob Ford had to say on his radio show Sunday that had everyone listening.

MAYOR ROB FORD, TORONTO: Friends, I'm the first one to admit, I am not perfect. I have made mistakes. I have made mistakes, and all I can do right now is apologize for the mistakes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have gathered the evidence -- VALENCIA: In a news conference last Thursday, Toronto's police chief said they have video of what appears to be the mayor, smoking from a glass pipe.

Ford has repeatedly denied using crack since the allegations surfaced in May.

On Sunday, he said that that video should be made public.

FORD: Whatever this video shows, folks, Toronto residents deserve to see it, and people need to judge for themselves what they see on this video.

VALENCIA: Mayor Ford was also featured prominently in a more than 460- page police investigation into gang activity, the report. important as much what it says about the mayor as what it doesn't say, page after page about Ford's alleged drug abuse redacted.

But there were photos, including one of Ford in front of what police say is a crack house with three men, alleged to be gang members.

Surveillance video also showed questionable behavior, the mayor seen with his one-time driver who has since been indicted on extortion charges, related to the video that alleges to show Ford using crack cocaine.

Ford hasn't been charged with anything himself, but he has become the butt of jokes.

JON STEWART, COMEDIAN, "THE DAILY SHOW": Hey, hey, don't judge him. Maybe he's cleaning up the city by smoking all the crack in it.

VALENCIA: Now the mayor is taking responsibility, even if he's quite not ready to say why he's apologizing.

FORD: There's no one to blame but myself and I take full responsible for it. I want to move forward.

But I also know to move forward, I have to make changes in my life, which I can assure you that I will do.

I love the work I do, and I'm going to keep doing it.

VALENCIA: Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And my colleague, Paula Newton joins me live now from Ottawa, Canada's capital.

This is one of those stories where most people simply can't believe the details that they're hearing.

But essentially when the mayor did that big mea culpa, was it really a mea culpa? What was he apologizing more?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The point is he was not apologizing for any kind of criminal behavior.

He basically said he had to change his behavior and change his drinking pattern, that he was going to do it. He was going to do it in moderation, and that was about it.

That belies, Ashleigh, the seriousness of the police investigation which he is still a part of, and right now, the police still say they have no reason to lay charges against him.

And as for that video, Ashleigh, they're saying, look, it can't be released because it's part of a criminal investigation. When that goes to court, you will see that video.

And then the mayor, Ashleigh, saying, look, I want the police to release the video. He said it again this morning, I want the police to release the video as soon as possible.

He feels somehow that this will vindicate him, that what he said he was sorry for was drinking and drinking only.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: So, Paula, if there are no charges that surface against this mayor, does that mean that video will never come out?

So, I mean, effectively, if he feels confident he's not going to get charged, it's fine to say show the video, show it.

NEWTON: Police believe that it will come out in several months down the road as part of another trial. But it won't come out any time soon, not tomorrow, not the next day.

The point is the mayor says he's still running for re-election next October. He said that he did not do that would in any way, shape or form compromise his job. And that's the bottom line.

I mean, Ashleigh, you have a city that's in a bit of paralysis. He was asked this morning, the deputy mayor, so this is a guy, a mayor, who is still under -- the subject of a police investigation.

That doesn't mean that's he's going to have charges. But then he has to what? Administer the police budget.

So many conflicts of interest right now, and the city's just reeling.

BANFIELD: And that is going to be one campaign that you are already assigned to cover. Paula Newton, thank you for that. Do appreciate your work.

I want to ask our CNN analyst Danny Cevallos to weigh in on this. Danny, first of all, what? And then second of all, there's video. There are photos. But is that actually evidence that one could base a charge on.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's evidence that could come in and could corroborate someone else's testimony or other evidence of drug use, possession, intent to distribute.

But if this is just ultimately, if he is charged with simple possession for using crack cocaine, it would be highly unusual to base your entire case on video evidence without a seizure analysis or any other corroborating evidence of that possession.

However, if the police decide to morph this into more serious charges, maybe he's involved in a conspiracy, maybe he's facilitated other drug dealers, well, then it could come in as corroborating evidence.

But it has to be authenticated and it has to be -- well, again, in Canada, I don't know what the rules of evidence are in Canada. I've never practiced there.

But here in America, you would have to authenticate that video evidence and, you really wouldn't have a lot of drug, simple possession cases based on video evidence alone.

BANFIELD: I tell you. From my years in Canada, there's a lot more gag orders that come out, and certainly, it's a little more tricky to get the public access to some discovery.

But in a circumstance like this when you have someone who is at his level of public responsibility, does that make a difference, or is he simply any "Joe Citizen" when it comes to charging, trying, and sentencing?

CEVALLOS: There's no question that being a public figure subjects you to more scrutiny.

I mean, after all, like I said before, a simple possession case, it would be highly unusual for the police to base their evidence on just a video without any seizure analysis.

But, so while that puts you under more scrutiny as, say, someone who's in the public eye, I think a lot of defense attorneys have said, and I agree with this, that when it comes to the burden of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, juries take a look at that more seriously than they might in just the run-of-the-mill drug case where they say, probably did it, that's good enough for me, let's get out of here.

BANFIELD: You're so good on this. Will you stick around? I've got a couple of other cases I want you to touch on.

CEVALLOS: Gladly.

BANFIELD: Danny Cevallos, thank you.

I've got some other news that I want you to know about, as well, this morning.

The Senate is going to vote today on workplace protections for gay people. You might not know this, but right now, workers in a lot of states can be fired just because of their sexual orientation or their gender identity. So because of that, writing in "The Huffington Post," President Obama has said that is offensive, it's wrong, and it needs to stop. Who you love, the president says, should never be a fireable offense.

CNN will keep you posted on that vote.

Chaos this morning at the opening of the trial of deposed Egyptian leader Mohamed Morsi.

Morsi defiantly told the judge that he is the legitimate leader of Egypt and that those who overthrew him should face charges instead. The trial was adjourned until January.

Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected president, had been held at a secret location since the military ousted him back in July.

A missing 19-year-old student at New York University was found wedged between two buildings in a narrow shaft barely a foot wide, and he is alive.

He apparently fell from a window or the roof of his dorm, and no one knew where he was.

His friends turned to NYU security to search for him, looking everywhere, including the rooftops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His phone was off, and he hadn't checked into an NYU building in the last couple of days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His legs were crossed, he was on his side, and he was moving his right arm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would not have found him for who knows how long and he would probably be dead right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And he's not.

After being trapped for 36 hours, today that student is hospitalized in serious condition with broken bones and other injuries. But again, he's alive.

Worried family members in New Jersey called police in California, but the rush to check on the man now alleged to have shot up LAX was just too late. But only by minutes.

The latest on the LAX airport shooting, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A matter of minutes, the House Homeland Security chairman Michael McCaul says that is how close Los Angeles police came to catching the airport shooting suspect before that alleged deadly attack on Friday.

Police went to the apartment of 23-year-old Paul Ciancia on Friday after his family asked officials to check on him, but Ciancia was apparently already en route to the airport.

And once there, he allegedly opened fire, killing a TSA official. He was shot by officers and is now in critical condition this morning.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has more in a CNN exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Days before Paul Ciancia's murderous rampage, this woman, who knows the alleged gun man and his three roommates, says Ciancia was already plotting his crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He asked one of the roommates if he could have a ride to the airport. He said that.

MARQUEZ: Why did he need a ride?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he was going back home. Either that his dad was kind of sick and that he had to deal with some family issues.

MARQUEZ: Did anyone ever see a ticket or --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

He also didn't mention what day he had to leave.

MARQUEZ: She says Ciancia rarely left his San Fernando Valley apartment since moving here in January, describing him as socially awkward and a heavy smoker.

The day he put his alleged plan into action, she says, it took his roommate by surprise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That morning, he doesn't knock. He just opens the door and said I need to leave. Can you take me now?

MARQUEZ: Ciancia's roommates believe this was the moment he texted family members in New Jersey, telling them that he was going to commit suicide.

That prompted frantic calls between police in New Jersey and L.A. Police came to Ciancia's home.

He has a bag, gets in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

MARQUEZ: Off they go. And a short time later, a knock at the door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

MARQUEZ: Police. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police.

MARQUEZ: Why are the police there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They heard that Paul was suicidal and they needed to do a welfare check on him.

MARQUEZ: She says the two other roommates were woken up and handcuffed as police searched the premises, Paul already gone, no sign of a gun.

Police say Ciancia took his military-style weapon, a legally purchased Smith and Wesson .223-caliber rifle, hopped out of his roommates car at LAX and began seeking out TSA agents to kill.

Did he ever express hatred toward the government or toward the TSA.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of the NSA findings that came out, you know, this year, he was very upset about it. And he also thought that TSA abused their power.

MARQUEZ: CNN has confirmed this picture making the lines online is legitimate. Paul Anthony Ciancia, shot at least twice, his face and neck hit. He's wearing chinos and a polo shirt, no ballistic vest, no special clothing. He looks like any other traveler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At that moment they're seeing this on the TV, their third roommate comes back and said I just dropped off Paul at LAX, he had to go home. And they knew, I think that you just dropped off Paul to a shooting.

MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And Stephanie Elam joins us live from the airport L.A.X. What is the circumstance? Are police able to talk to this suspect? Can he even speak given where he was shot?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. At this point they're saying he is still unresponsive. They've not been able to interview him and he remains under constant watch. But no, he is no condition to give any sort of commentary on why he did this, and why he went after just any TSA agent the way he did, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And no involvement of those roommates at all at this point, right?

ELAM: I heard a little bit of your conversation. I think you were asking about the roommates there. No, they do not believe that they had any involvement. That when the officers arrived at the apartment, they handcuffed the roommates because they wanted to make sure they had nothing to do with it. We were told so far this they don't believe they had anything to do with what Ciancia allegedly did. They believe he acted alone at this point.

BANFIELD: Stephanie Elam for us live at LAX. Thank you for that. Some disturbing allegations inside the NFL. Is it hazing, is it workplace harassment or is it bullying? One player leaves the team, another is suspended. We're going to take a look at what's happening in Miami and if it's happening elsewhere too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back to LEGAL VIEW. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Amid allegations that bullying in the locker room led a player to take leave from the team, from the Miami Dolphins. The Dolphins responded by saying they didn't know that bullying was a concern regarding Jonathan Martin walking out on the team.

Then the Dolphins came back with another statement Sunday and said, Martin's agent did give them a head's up about the alleged bullying, and asked the NFL to look into the situation. And later that same day, they issued a third statement suspending the lineman named Richie Incognito for something called "conduct detrimental to the team."

What that conduct is, they did not elaborate.

CNN's John Berman picks up the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we're learning new details about alleged player misconduct within the Miami Dolphins' locker room that may have played a role in the abrupt departure of offensive tackle Jonathan Martin last week.

"The Miami Herald" reports, citing and unnamed sources that veteran players are allegedly pressuring younger players to pay for their high-priced outings. One unnamed rookie is nearly broke because he can't say no to the older players, the source told "The Herald."

This weekend, players tweeted about a lavish-looking dinner. Another player joked about the dinner tab totaling in the tens of thousands of dollars. Later adding, the bill was split.

Martin allegedly left the Dolphins after an incident with a group of players standing up and leaving when he tried to join them for lunch. The NFL is conducting an investigation, and the team released a statement saying, in part, we take these alleges very seriously and plan to review the matter further.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: If he was bullied, it certainly wouldn't be unique. That's part of the NFL culture, especially for young players, particularly rookies. It is the epitome of machismo, and strength and posturing among men.

BERMAN: This comes on the heels of an ESPN report over the weekend that offensive lineman Richie Incognito pressured Martin into paying $15,000 for a trip to Las Vegas that Martin wasn't even on. Incognito fought back on Twitter writing, "ESPN, shame on you for attaching my name to false speculation. I won't be holding my breath for an apology. Late Sunday, the Dolphins indefinitely suspended Incognito, pending the outcome of an investigation.

JOE PHILBIN, MIAMI DOLPHINS HEAD COACH: I can say without question that we emphasize a culture of team first accountability and respect for one another. Any behavior that deviates from that, is inconsistent with the values of our organization.

BERMAN: Some of his teammates hope Martin returns soon.

TYSON CLABO, MIAMI DOLPHINS: A football team is like a family. Every family has issues. We just want him to be all right. And, you know, I want him to come back to work.

BERMAN: John Berman, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Thank you John Berman, and joining me now, CNN legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos and criminal defense attorney Heather Hansen.

Okay, you two. Let me start here. Heather when is typical naughty boy behavior in a locker room not typical anymore?

HEATHER HANSEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, and that is the question that's going to come out of this whole investigation. I think it's pretty much accepted in the NFL that some of this goes on. They talked about in the piece that John just did about the rookies having to pay for some of the older players. And they actually cal that a "rookie tax." It's been going on for some time. What point does that become bullying or harassment, things that are contrary to the policies of the NFL? I think they went beyond that point here. And I think we're going to see through the investigation that it may have fone even further.

BANFIELD: So, I want to be clear, we do not have solid reporting on what the circumstances were for this player who walked off the team. We don't know if it was just the rookie tax or the lunchroom incident that "The Miami Herald" reported on saying that all the players invited him to sit down for lunch, and the minute he did, they all stood up to go out. Wah. I mean, look, this is mean girls behavior for 13-year-old girls. But Danny, does it matter that the alleged victim of alleged bullying is perhaps more sensitive than other players? What I'm saying is, if this goes on all the time, how can we find mens rea in this -- criminal intent, if this is just standard operating procedure?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You hit on it. The more and more we define any hazing as bullying and therefore something unlawful, we're sliding the threshold earlier and earlier so that someone's just subjective discomfort with something becomes actionable. Yes, are we going to get to the point where we outlaw if you sit down with your tray and everybody else gets up at the table, if that becomes hazing. Hazing is about the imbalance of power. That's true. But however, hazing is also about celebrating tradition in many instances. It's about celebrating that very imbalance of power. You find it in the military, the Navy's grog ceremony. You see it in many places where it really is very innocent. So, that's the concern.

BANFIELD: Heather is like shaking her head. I want to know if money had something to do with it. It's one thing to stand up the at lunch table, but another to almost extorting money.

HANSEN: Well, not only that, Ashleigh, but as you learn more you do better. So, it used to be that residents in medical programs had to work 24 hours because that's what everyone always had to do, and that was sort of the rite of passage. I think here, as more and more investigation comes out, we're going to see that this is not appropriate behavior, and it's --

BANFIELD: But it is criminal? Maybe it' just a civil problem. They can launch whatever action they want against the other players, or against the - NFL.

HANSEN: I think we may see criminal charges come out of this.

BANFIELD: Seriously?

HANSEN: I think that we very well may, but I think --

BANFIELD: Oh my lord.

HANSEN: -- it's way too soon to say at this point, but I think that it's a lot worse than we may imagine.

BANFIELD: And I want to be real clear, we do not know the extent. There could be a pattern well beyond any reporting from "The Miami Herald" or CNN or anybody else, and I don't know that, but based on what we have now, Lord remind me not to go to lunch with you two. But I do love having you on the show. Thank you both. Heather and Danny, good to see you again. Happy Monday.

Just ahead, Edward Snowden says he wants to come back to the good old United States, and that he leaked all that sensitive information to seek change in oversight and laws. What else was inside his manifesto? And what are some Congressman saying about that whole, you want to come back business? Details in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)