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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Jury Deliberates Martin MacNeill`s Fate

Aired November 08, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Breaking news tonight, it is judgment day for the wealthy doctor. Did he drown his wife, a beauty queen and beloved mother of eight, inside the family bathtub so he could start a new life with his mistress, Gypsy?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks for joining us. The jury is deliberating this highly-charged murder case right now. They have been at it for just over three hours now. What will they decide?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will decide whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martin MacNeill murdered his wife, Michele.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the end, I think you will conclude that this was a homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant carried out a cold and calculated plan to murder his wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you suspect that he might be guilty, you still have to find him not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was going to have to make a choice between Michele of Gypsy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michele MacNeill did not kill herself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The case is dripping with motive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It makes no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the reason he did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you believe he`s probably not guilty...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutors put mistress Gypsy back on the stand just yesterday to hammer home their motive that her affair with the defendant was hot and heavy, not casual as she had claimed and that Dr. MacNeill`s obsession with Gypsy drove him to murder his wife.

You know, I wondered how the prosecution would do in closing, since their case seemed at times weak, even bumbling. But I personally thought the prosecution`s closing arguments brilliant. Brilliant. The prosecutor really connected the dots for the jury, detailing Dr. MacNeill`s motive and his opportunity to kill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHAD GRUNANDER, PROSECUTOR: There about an hour and a half where nobody knows where Martin is, plenty of time, rush home, take care of your business, give Michele her drugs, fix her up a bath, get her in the tub her, hold her head down for a little while, and help her out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a reference to one of the inmates, who testified the defendant told him how he killed Michele. Like that, the guy said.

Look at the defendant`s expression as the prosecution ended their closing argument. We`ll show it to you in a second. It looked like he was praying. It looked like he was feeling defeated. What will the jury decide?

Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Jean Casarez, who`s live in Provo, Utah. You were in court. Oh, my gosh, what was it like during closing arguments and who was there?

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: It was long, first of all. I mean, it started at 8:30 this morning and went basically straight through until 2 p.m. in the afternoon.

As far as family members, Alexis was there; Rachel was there. The sisters of Michele who had been there the whole time were there.

Jane, it was such a packed courtroom that people from this community had to be turned away. They shut the door because the seats were packed, and people were packed like sardines in there.

And the jury, not a peep out them. They were right behind me. They are deliberating right now the fate of Martin MacNeill.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. And we understand it`s a panel of five men and three women. I wonder how the predominance of men on the women will affect the case.

And let me throw that to Dr. Tiffanie Davis-Henry. A lot of guys. Are they going to be more or less sympathetic to this cheater and this liar?

DR. TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: To me, I think it might depend upon if the -- if the guys on this panel have daughters or if they have children, how -- if they`re married, you know, how in love with their spouse are they. I think they`re going to look at Martin MacNeill`s life and look at their own and compare the two.

If I were in this situation, could I fathom doing to this to my child, my children or my wife? And I think they`ll use that to kind of give them some sense of where to go on this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I certainly hope they couldn`t fathom doing what this guy is accused of doing.

DAVIS-HENRY: I hope not. You never know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. MacNeill never took the stand. Still, some of the strongest evidence against him, his own words in that now-infamous 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is your wife breathing?

MARTIN MACNEILL, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER (via phone): She is not. I am a physician. I`ve got CPR in progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecutor ticked through the lies that Dr. MacNeill, the defendant, told the 911 operator, investigators and even family members following Michele`s death. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRUNANDER: He twice says he`s in the process of administering CPR. The defendant was, in fact, not doing CPR. He couldn`t do CPR. He couldn`t lift her out of the tub.

What about getting inside the tub and maybe straddling her, grabbing her from her shoulders?

Or loudly exclaiming "Why? Why would you do this, all for a stupid surgery?" Michele is not the one that was pushing for the surgery. It was the defendant.

And the defendant asks her to flush drugs down the toilet. She approaches the defendant and asks him, "Where are the drugs? What`s going on with the drugs?"

And he says, "Oh, the police might have taken them."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very suspicious indeed. Adam Swickle, criminal defense attorney, I mean, he just nailed this guy on lie after lie. Look at his expression. There`s Dr. MacNeill after the prosecutor finished, looking like he`s praying or saying, "Oh, my gosh, I might be going down." What do you think? Do you think it`s going to be -- they`re deliberating right now -- guilty or not guilty?

ADAM SWICKLE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s always difficult to say when there`s so many...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go out on a limb. Go out on a limb.

SWICKLE: Go out on a limb?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want you to take a guess.

SWICKLE: I think -- I think if the jury follows the law and the rules, they`ll find him not guilty. And that is because there is -- yes, there is absolutely reasonable doubt here, especially when it comes to the medical evidence in the case, and that`s what they`re going to have to focus on.

Is there proof that there was actually a murder here? The cause of death. That is the strongest points for the defense, and I think that hammered that home today. And if they follow the law. they`ll find him not guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist, is joining us via phone.

I am looking at the jury instructions. A lot of jury instructions. But what I found fascinating, they don`t have to think that he had this big, giant, elaborate plot. They could also decide that he intended to call serious bodily injury to Michele and committed an act clearly dangerous to human life that caused her death. We know he gave her -- there`s been a lot of testimony he gave her the drugs that were found in her system -- Doctor.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST (via phone): Well, you know, the fact is, is that a physician is trained in pharmacology and understands full well that, when a patient consumes multiple drugs, all of which have effects on the central nervous system, that these things can act together in concert of the well-known synergistic effects. They are very, very dangerous.

Now, with that knowledge in this particular case, there`s not only motive and opportunity, but he had special knowledge of the effects of these drugs that could very well have rendered her unconscious or certainly unstable. So there`s something about this that really points to him.

And it`s true: reasonable doubt is always, you know, in the mind of the beholder. What does that really mean? But I think there`s enough circumstantial evidence that would lead one to believe that he never should have allowed her to take all of these drugs. He may have given it to her. She may have taken it, but how did she get it in the first place? This just doesn`t fit together. It doesn`t make sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. If the jury brings back a guilty, they will have made a conclusion that three medical examiners for the state could not make, that Michele MacNeill was murdered. The medical examiners were unable to say that conclusively.

Here is the defense attorney in his closing argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You could not conclude this was a homicide.

None of them could conclude that this was a homicide.

If medical examiners can review all of this information and cannot conclude that it`s a homicide, then how could you as jurors?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back out to the Lion`s Den.

Now, the defense tells jurors, "You can`t say that she was murdered when three medical examiners couldn`t say that." But Woodrow Tripp, former police commander, the prosecution says medical examiners aren`t detectives. They can`t put the physical evidence into the context of all the many suspicious things Dr. MacNeill did, like a 200-pound guy saying, "I can`t pull her out of the tub." So there she is. You know, any attempts to resuscitate, all that time is lost. Pretending he has a limp, but then he forgets, and he`s picking up his daughter and he`s lifting boxes. You know, texting wildly with his mistress. All -- it`s a litany of suspicious things. The medical examiners can`t think like detectives, Woodrow.

WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: I agree with you, but it`s a huge hurdle because detectives aren`t medical examiners. And at some point when we prepare our case, that`s a hurdle the medical examiners have to clear for us in order to say it`s a homicide.

And as much as it pains me, I almost have to agree with the defense attorneys in this. There are some problems. But it`s a strong circumstantial case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, you have been there. You`ve been listening to the testimony. What we heard today was a long litany of extremely suspicious behavior on the part of the man you were just looking at. Give us a couple of examples, because the list goes on and on and on.

CASAREZ: Are you asking me, Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Jean.

CASAREZ: OK. I`m sorry; I didn`t hear. You`re talking about examples. Let me cite one that I think is really interesting, in the time line. Gypsy Willis sent two e-mails to a potential suitor, saying that her best friend has become much more serious, things have changed, his thoughts have changed so she couldn`t see this new suitor. March 6 and March 13. March 22 was the first day for the preoperative appointment with the plastic surgeon for a facelift.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about this, Dr. Tiffanie Davis-Henry? OK. The day that she dies, he is at some kind of safety fair at his office, which is just five miles from home. And he`s insisting, "Oh, take my picture. Take my group picture. I want you to take my picture," wanting an alibi photo. And everybody was saying he was acting so weird like why is he so determined to be in this photo? Isn`t that suspicious?

DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely. I mean, here`s the thing. Most of us when we get invited to these company functions, we don`t really want to go, let alone have to dress up and get a picture taken. So it does seem to warrant kind of a question Mark there: Why was he so adamant about having his picture taken? And we all know why he was so adamant. He wanted to make sure it was documented, well-documented that he was in the building.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, this woman, this mistress knew about the plastic surgery.

DAVIS-HENRY: Yes, she knew about everything. She knew about everything except that he was going to do it. That`s what`s so crazy about this. She knew every little detail about everything surrounding around the time line that she was going to be killed, but she didn`t know anything about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to her she didn`t know anything about that. I want to make clear she`s not charged.

Lisa, Canada, what have you got to say? Lisa, Canada? Lisa -- all right, listen. Go ahead.

CALLER: I just want to say, please, is there a reason why he killed his poor wife and then he has his 6-year-old daughter run upstairs to see how mommy is doing?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. Obviously he doesn`t want -- I mean, listen. I don`t want to convict him. The jury is deciding right now. They`re deliberating as he speak, and they`re probably having these conversations.

But Adam Swickle, obviously, he doesn`t want to go and find her. He wants to have a 6-year-old girl go in, according to the prosecutor, and find her, because a 6-year-old girl is an unreliable witness to what mommy is wearing, the position she`s in. And then he sends her to go get help, more time where we don`t have, basically, resuscitation efforts going on.

SWICKLE: You know, but the problem with all of this is we`re playing Monday morning quarterback. We`re trying to take a square peg and bang it into a round hole. We can certainly go back and say, "Well, this was suspicious. That was suspicious."

If everybody who committed murder or everybody who had suspicious behavior or cheated on their wife was a murderer, we would have a big problem in our society because a lot of that goes on. This isn`t something you can just say it was suspicious, he did it for this reason or that reason. We need medical evidence. The medical evidence does not exist in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I disagree. I don`t think that reasonable doubt is saying I can`t say for sure if the sun is going to come up tomorrow morning.

All right. We`re going to continue to track it. We`ve got Jean Casarez there right at court. We`ve got a whole team watching that situation. We`re going to bring you anything that happens the second they say a verdict is in.

Meantime, a 15-year-old girl needs your help, my help. She disappeared on her way to school. Police have found her bicycle. Her parents are devastated and scared. Let`s help her. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kettle Moraine High School student sent a text to a friend Tuesday morning saying she missed her school bus and was riding her bike. She never arrived at school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a difficult piece for us, because we really -- we`re really at a loss, and that included concrete information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are on verdict watch in the case of Dr. MacNeill. You`re looking at him there. That`s his expression after the prosecution finished his closing argument and a jury right now in a room somewhere in Provo, Utah, in the courthouse, trying to figure out whether this guy indeed murdered his wife.

They`ve been deliberating just over three and a quarter hours. We are tracking it. We`ve got a team there in Provo, Utah, and we`ll bring you the very latest.

But now, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kettle Moraine High is where Kathryn Stalbaum was headed to Thursday. She never arrived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathryn left for school somewhere round at 6 on Tuesday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all very worried about her safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is out of character for her to be out without having regular contact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the big question of what happened has a lot of people here very worried.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight terror rips through a Wisconsin town. One of their own has vanished.

Beautiful 15-year-old Kathryn Stalbaum was on her way to school at about 6 in the morning Tuesday morning when she missed the bus. She texted a friend that she would hop on her teal bike and ride it to school, just a couple of miles away. She was never seen or heard from again. And cops are now announcing that her bike has been found many miles away from Kathryn`s high school in a completely different direction from the school, from her home, in the bushes on a residential street near a hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That bicycle was recovered at a residence right across the street from Waukesha hospital in the city of Waukesha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is with her bike. Poor family. This is the Google street view right outside the hospital. We will show you that in a second. It is surrounded on all sides by residential streets. Could somebody have seen something?

All right. This is the area. They`ve actually drained that pool. Look at all the law enforcement with the K-9 dogs looking for this poor young girl.

Kathryn`s friends and family say she would never run away. She does not have a history of running away. She was just a very popular, regular high-school freshman on the way to school. Did he take off on her own? Did our culture of violence claim another one of our precious children?

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. We begin with Mark Klaas, founder of Klaas Kids, who tragically lost his own precious daughter, Polly, after an abduction.

Mark, thank you for joining us tonight.

Kathryn`s bike has been found. What does that mean for our chances of finding her?

MARK KLAAS, FOUNDER, KLAAS KIDS (via phone): It certainly is a good lead, Jane. I mean, at least -- what they know is that they found the bike, that was many miles away and that it didn`t appear to have been in any kind of an accident. So that`s all the good news.

I wall to tell you what the bad news is. Everything that I`ve been able to see on this tells me that the local sheriff has not yet brought in the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and it`s important to do that for a couple of reasons.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. 1, they have experience in these kinds of cases. That`s experience. They have protocols to deal with these kinds of cases, and they can provide resource to the locals that otherwise wouldn`t be available.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have to say, I`ve see her with a lot of dogs. And I know my dogs for some reason seem to know five minutes before I get there. Maybe they should bring her own dogs along with the professional K-9 out and about ubiquitous units to see if they lead anywhere.

I mean, listen, this is a desperate situation. Ho stone unturned. Kathryn texted a friend right before he left her house. The cops say they`re still working on tracing the pings on her cell phone. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Has Kathryn`s cell phone been retrieved? She mentioned in the time line that she sent a text to a friend. Are has that cell phone been retrieved?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we have not obtained that cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been able to locate it or ping it in some way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been making efforts to do that and I don`t want to get into the details of that for investigative reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, again, there hasn`t been any movement on social media since her disappearance. They can`t find her cell phone and her backpack was recovered from inside her locker. Now she could have left it there overnight.

Woodrow Tripp, former police commander, what are your thoughts? Does this seem like a stranger abduction? Does it seem like it could possibly be that, you know, somebody she knew -- she`s 5`7". Fifteen years old but she`s taller than I am, and from a distance she could look like not a child but a late teen.

TRIPP Certainly, Jane, it appears at this point to be. There`s a lot of work to be done here. Fortunately, with our modern age of cameras, it`s more important of someone saw it is if a camera saw something. A lot of work to be done: pinging of cell phones, cell known records, cell phone towers. Our modern age, it really lends a lot to do that. But cameras are going to be very crucial on that entire route. Surrounding that bike, and also the area where she...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, it`s near a hospital. A hospital has cameras.

TRIPP: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If they don`t, they better. You know, I talk a lot about the need for privacy and we don`t want the government and the NSA looking at our e-mails. But darn, have cameras on the street.

And I`m going to give Dr. Tiffanie Davis-Henry the final word on that. It seems that we don`t do enough for our young women given these abductions that are occurring. And we pray this is not one of them, but it looks like it is.

DAVIS-HENRY: It does look like it is. That makes me feel sad. It really breaks my heart, Jane. We talk so much about all of these different cases. If there`s one thing that you just said and Woody said is that we have to -- I`m urging every business owner are, every homeowner in that area, if you have a surveillance camera on the outside, just look at it. Even if you don`t think there`s something is on it, look at again and make sure this young girl did not cross the path. It`s the one thing that maybe could lead to us bringing her home alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got calls coming in on the story. We`re going to continue it on the other side as we remain on verdict watch in the trial of Dr. Martin MacNeill, accused of drugging and drowning -- look at his beautiful wife. Yes, cops say he drowned her after drugging her to get her out of the way because he wanted to be with his mistress, Gypsy. Will me be convicted of murder? The jury discussing that right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we`re probably looking at upwards of 100 hours of video at this point. I also indicated this morning that, because we have now found the bike in Waukesha, we`re really interested in looking at residential and commercial surveillance video. Anyone that has such video, I would encourage them to look at that video. If you need help looking at the video, we can come out and help them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the Google street view from right outside the hospital. Cops now searching the surveillance video from this area and asking anybody who lives or works near this area to check their surveillance cameras for any sign of this 15-year-old girl.

I`ve got to go back to Mark Klaas. You know so much about these investigations as the founder of Klaas Kids. Do you find it odd at all -- two things that struck me. One, that she`s texting her friend, even though it`s really early -- it`s like 6 a.m., OK -- when she takes off? And the other thing is that this happened on a day when she deviated from her normal schedule which is to take the bus to school. She says she missed her bus and was going to ride her bike. Does that -- yes, go ahead.

KLAAS: Yes, it does. Sure, of course. There`s got to be significance in that.

I want to point out that we have cases all the time of children disappearing going to school and coming home from school, whether they`re walking, whether they`re on bikes or whether they`re getting off of -- whether they`re getting off of school buses.

But I think something that`s very important about this video is it`s not just about seeing her on the video, Jane. It`s also about vehicles that are on the video. It`s about people that might be in the videos. And it`s also about unusual circumstances or things that are going on in the videos. They really need to bring these videos in and do a very, very careful analysis because there very well may be things in videos, in surveillance videos that are not apparent to the naked eye and that are not apparent when only one person in looking at these videos.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tammy, Canada, what do you have to say about this? Tammy, Canada.

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call tonight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

CALLER: As you know in today`s society with our pets we microchip our pets, so if our pets run away, we can find our pets. Every day I`m hearing about -- we`re hearing about child abductions and children going missing. So I`m wondering, in today`s technology, why can`t we come up with something in biometrics where our children are microchipped when they`re born? And that is...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me stop you right there. Dr. Tiffanie Davis- Henry, it`s a provocative suggestion.

DAVIS-HENRY: It`s actually a really good one. I like where she`s going with that. And you know, we`ve done some research on this, and there actually are little chips and little trinkets that you can actually put on your kids` shoes, because oftentimes when children are abducted, they may change -- the abductor may change their clothes but they rarely go out and buy a new pair of shoes and change shoes. So it`s something you can put on a child`s shoe or shoelaces that will help detect them if they`re missing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I like the idea of something on shoes or shoelaces or somewhere.

DAVIS-HENRY: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think when you start implanting chips into human beings, well, that`s a very serious thing. You`re opening a Pandora`s box. And I can perceive of many, many, many possible negative consequences of that.

But, we`ve got to do something.

And there`s a related story on the other side. We`re on verdict watch and will remain on verdict watch. We`ve got everybody standing by at the courthouse, Provo, Utah, waiting for anything, any sign that a verdict has been reached.

But also we`re talking about another outrage that involves females. Hundreds of thousands of rape kits sitting unused. You will not believe the number. It is -- it will knock you off your chair. This is a war on women story. It is disgusting. It is reprehensible. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The jury has been deliberating just over three and a half hours in the murder trial of Dr. Martin MacNeill. Take a look at him. He looks like he`s praying and that`s what he did as soon as the prosecution finished their closing argument -- very powerful. Right now, the jury deliberating in Utah to decide whether or not this man drugged and drowned his wife to be with his mistress. We will keep you posted. The second anything happens we`ll bring it to you. Now this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We see cases all the time that are escaping through the system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My kit sat on the shelf for over 21 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The national backlog of rape kits still needing to be processed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to change priorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Within the last two minutes, two minutes, some woman in the United States has been sexually assaulted. Even scarier about 400,000 rape kits, you know those kits that are supposed to help catch the rapist, actually are not tested. That`s right. Critical DNA is just sitting on shelves all around the country. It`s gross.

It`s insulting to women and it`s an ongoing problem in the war on women that has infuriated not only me but victims of survivors, like this woman who had the courage to come forward and speak out against her attacker. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was in so much pain, I was in so much trauma after this ordeal and then to find that my kit after so much evasive taking of evidence from me, sat on the shelf for over 21 years. I can`t explain how that made me feel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s disgusting and we women have to stand up and say enough. Straight out to the "Lion`s Den" -- you know, it`s just simply unacceptable, 400,000 untested rape kits. I mean stadiums and stadiums filled with women who are living in fear and with the resentment of knowing that their attacker is out there because the cops didn`t even test the rape kit. Rolonda Watts --

ROLONDA WATTS, RADIO PERSONALITY: This is crazy, Jane. I mean each one of those boxes represents a life. A life that`s been shattered. And to go through the process itself is very difficult. A victim spends hours in the hospital, swabs and photographs and the rest. And there are many who say the least you can do is test the evidence.

Here`s the other thing, Jane. It`s not only important to test the evidence to catch the criminal. But it`s also important because it can reopen cold cases. It could even clear people who have been wrongly accused. And it could solve --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or catch somebody before they rape again -- catch somebody before they rape again.

WATTS: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean I got to go to Laura Dunn. You survived sexual assault on college campus and you are my hero for speaking out and really trying to do something about this obscenity that essentially rape is not being taken as seriously as it needs to be by law enforcement all across the country.

Your reaction to the number of 400,000 untested rape kits.

LAURA DUNN, RAPE SURVIVOR: The number is amazing. You mentioned campus sexual violence. Not only are stranger rapes often serial perpetrators but even with on-college campuses, we have research to show that nine out of the ten of the acquaintance rapes that are happening are serial perpetrators.

So to think that a few victims who are brave enough to come forward who are able to sit through such an invasive exam that their kits are not even tested to identify these repeat rapists is shocking and it allows the problem to continue over and over.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s happening all over the country. Now we`re just going to use this as an example. Memphis, Tennessee -- there are reportedly 12,000 untested rape kits but the DA says some of that has to do with the fact that the suspect confessed to a sentence. Ok -- great. But it`s also a money issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not as if this office and law enforcement have been sitting around not working, not holding offenders accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, here`s my rant. This is absolutely outrageous. All the money our government wastes on useless, stupid programs. I mean we hear it every day, you know. Let`s test rats to see if cookies are addictive. All of that money should be going towards finding justice for rape victims, priority number one of government -- federal, state and local.

These women have been scraped, posed, photographed, forced to recount every painful detail of horrific terrorizing sexual assault only to have their rape kits sitting there collecting dust to the point that they could even pass the statute of limitations. Are you kidding me? We are 50 percent of the population at least and we deserve better than this.

I want to go to Jamie, Canada, you`re right on the other side of the border but I don`t know what`s going on in Canada but I know you feel strongly about this for an important reason. Tell me.

JAMIE, CANADA (via telephone): Well, at 16 I was raped with a gun to my head for three hours. And I find it unbelievable what`s happening in the states. And I`m sure it`s still happening here. I`ve never reported mine because I was too scared. They tell me that if you ever went to the police we would find you and kill you and I was too scared at the time so I didn`t report it. But I know that it happens.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jamie, this is the reported rape -- as we know it`s a very under-reported crime. And now get this -- an anti-rape clothing line is coming up. It`s sparking a lot of controversy. It`s called AR-wear and it`s like anti-rape wear. It popped up on the fund- raising Web site Indegogo (ph). Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to provide a product that will make women and girls feel safer when out on a first date or a night of clubbing, taking an evening run or traveling in another country or in other potentially risky situations.

Our product line provides a layer of protection in case of assault. It is in fact anti-rape wear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what this reminds me of? I mean look, a burka. Ok.

Laura Dunn, you survived sexual assault. I don`t think we should punish women by making them wear restrictive clothing because of the criminality of men. I think this is absurd -- all due respect to somebody trying to come up with a solution. This is modern-day chastity belt or a burka.

DUNN: Yes, a lot of people have strong feelings about this. I have to say I personally have mixed feelings. I`m a runner. I run with keys in between my fingers. I always think about the risk of strange assault. So part of me is like yes, I`d wear that for running.

However I do this work and I know that most of the violence is acquaintance violence. It`s going to be when you`re with someone you know then why would you be wearing that on that occasion. And what does that say about our society that you would want women to feel like they need to wear that. And a lot of people have concerns this will be just be victim blaming.

When you`re raped they will say why weren`t you wearing AR wear? You could have prevented this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you know that we`re seeing a pattern here. Ok. So we have a caller saying put a chip in girls so they`re not abducted. And now we`ve got a new clothing line to kind of lock your body up so you can`t be raped.

This is insanity. It`s insanity. We`ve got to get more women elected into positions in government and in law enforcement so that we take this stuff seriously.

We`re going to stay on top of that.

Again, we`re also watching what`s going on in Provo, Utah -- the jury deliberating and we`ve got our team standing by the second that word comes that there`s a verdict, we`ll bring it to you.

Now we`re talking about the monster storm. I don`t even mean monster -- it`s beyond. There are no words. Ok. This is going to be possibly the worst thing to ever hit and we`re going to show it to you and talk to you about why it`s outrageous. There`s an outrage. It`s not just Mother Nature.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crazy Video of the Day: in the dumb criminals department a man and his daughter trying to rip off a laundromat. Check this out. They cover up what they think is a camera. Oops, no, they didn`t get the right device apparently. The real camera caught them stealing allegedly 80 bucks in quarters. Cops say this is not the first time this father/daughter team robbed a laundromat. You`re not Bonnie and Clyde people -- cut it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Perhaps the most powerful storm ever to make landfall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never experienced wind like this in my entire existence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the biggest storm of the year hitting the Philippines right now harder than any storm has ever hit anywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3.7 times the power of Katrina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you look back to Superstorm Sandy when it hit the U.S. East Coast, it was only a Category 2. By contrast Haiyan is a Category 5 and that`s only because the categories don`t go any higher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You heard it. It could be the strongest storm ever - - a massive super typhoon tearing through the Philippines leaving death and destruction. This disaster strikes just as the United Nation talks in ever more alarming terms about the mounting risk of climate change.

I know you don`t want to talk about it. I know you don`t like to hear about it. Let`s talk about something more fun. It exists, it`s real and it`s going to devastate our world, not just over the Philippines but here too.

You know governments say they still want more scientific certainty before they invest in renewable energy. What more proof do you need? How much more devastation? This typhoon has the strength of a Category 5. That`s only because Category 5 is the highest designation. Maybe it`s a 10. Ok.

Hurricane Sandy it was just a Category 2 when it walloped the East Coast last year. Remember it killed more than a hundred people. It created billions of dollars of damage. It was a 2; this is a 5 or more. Katrina, you know, leveled New Orleans. That was a 3 -- a Category 3.

I want to go to Phil Radford, executive director of Green Peace -- we`re delighted to have you on. Full disclosure, I`m a member of Green Peace. I think what they`re doing to you guys in Russia, really unfair. I got to say people don`t want to talk about this. Even when we talk about should we do this story, there`s a sense that, well, this isn`t a sexy story.

Well, what`s it going to take to get it into people`s heads that if we don`t start changing our lifestyles we could lose everything?

PHIL RADFORD, GREEN PEACE: Well, I think it`s even more than us changing our lifestyles. I think governments and companies can make big decision to change the trajectory of the world. You know, this isn`t an act of God; the fact that these hurricanes and cyclones are so strong -- it`s an act of companies like Exxon or the fossil fuels. And there are simple policies we can put in place to transition to clean energy right now. That`s the kind of leadership we need.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We could change everything. I mean come on. You know there`s technology that wouldn`t require a single plastic bottle. There`s biodegradable bottles -- I`ve seen it with my own eyes -- they degrade in 45 days. But nobody is selling those. We could put every single dishwashing detergent in a cardboard container. There`s a couple of them out there. This should be tax incentive to make all of this stuff happen right now.

RADFORD: I agree.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because our world is in danger, Phil.

RADFORD: I totally agree. The problem we do not have is a scientific problem. Scientists know that cyclones like this are stronger because waters are warmer; and hurricanes and typhoons feed off of the warmth and energy in water. So we don`t know how much stronger this was because of global warming but we do know this is what global warming looks like.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was stronger. Thank you Phil Radford -- Green Peace.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m finally getting the story that I have down on paper --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re in (inaudible) six months of the year pursuing this issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that`s the thing. I have a huge archive -- ten years` worth of our relationship with animals around the globe. I`m trying to save the world.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You just saw a snippet of the award-winning brand new, stunning feature-length documentary film "The Ghost in Our Machine". And it makes the case there are three types of animals. And we kind of have a twisted relationship with animals. There are the dogs, like my little rescue Cabo -- not so little, actually. Of course we love our dogs and cats. And then there`s wildlife and then there`s the third category. All the many billions and billions of animals we don`t like to think about.

I am here with the director, Liz Marshall, of "The Ghost in Our Machine" -- you`re holding my little rescue, Foxy. What kind of animals are we talking about? Are we talking about dogs and cats when you say "The Ghosts in Our Machine"?

LIZ MARSHALL, DIRECTOR, "THE GHOST IN OUR MACHINE": The ghosts are any animal that have been relegated as tools within industry all over the world for different industries like food, entertainment, biomedical research and fashion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have my little rescue Foxy here.

MARSHALL: She`s not a ghost.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s not a ghost. But foxes used for fur are ghosts?

MARSHALL: Yes. In fact, the fur industry is on the rise, despite, you know, how progressive we are in society around that issue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Foxy isn`t that much different from a fox -- a real fox -- and yet we don`t really have a regard as a culture for foxes. What`s your basic point with the movie?

MARSHALL: The basic point is that animals are sentient beings which mean that they are conscious, feeling beings that deserve our respect and we have ignored most of them which are the ghosts that are used within these industries. We look away.

And the film has been designed to remove our blinders. WE all wear them. And the film is a gentle film about a dramatic subject. It`s been designed for a broad audience about a subject matter that is quite staggering, harrowing and haunting. "The Ghost in Our Machine" is shining a light on these animals that we don`t necessarily want to look at.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How does Farm Sanctuary, this incredible organization that rescues farm animals like pigs and cows and chickens from factory farms, how has Farm Sanctuary played a role in your film?

MARSHALL: The film features three scenes with Farm Sanctuary. And every time we arrive at Farm Sanctuary it`s like being heaven on earth. It`s beautiful. We mean animals that have names and stories. They`re like -- it feels like we`re in a storybook from our childhood where, you know, we can relate to the animals, and we love them.

A lot of us don`t want to bear witness to the truth, and the truth is quite staggering. It`s haunting. It`s harrowing. That said -- this film has been very carefully designed to be a gentle film about a dramatic subject. Animals are beautiful within the film. There`s a lot of beauty.

It features Joann McArthur who`s a photographer and through her heart and lens we meet all of these wonderful animals.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The film is "The Ghost in Our Machine". It`s going to be online very soon. It`s won awards. Everybody`s talking about it. I hope you look for it online and check it out.

END