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New Day

Zimmerman's Trail Of Trouble; N-Word In The Locker Room; Monty Python Reuniting For Stage Shows

Aired November 20, 2013 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zimmerman is expected to be back in court in January and by the way, Zimmerman's wife, Shellie served him with divorce papers Monday night while he sat in a jail cell at the correctional facility here in Seminole County, Florida. Back to you, guys.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alina Machado over there, thank you so much for that. For more analysis on this and why exactly George Zimmerman can't seem to stay out of trouble, let's bring in psychotherapist, Robi Ludwig. It's good to have you here to give us a little perspective on this. I was watching your face, watching Alina's package. What is your sense of this man and what is happening to him right now?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, my sense always about George is that he sees life through a very paranoid lens. So he sees people as out to get him. Listen, this could be a result of him feeling guilty that he got away with murder or grandiose that he can get away with anything right now. But I think the bottom line is, he really thinks like a batter. That's how I see him. I think we're just noticing something about him that's probably been true in his history for a long time, we just didn't know him.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think that he is responding to stress of the trial that he went through at all or do you think this is something that's existed?

LUDWIG: I think it's an aspect of it, you know, maybe there's guilt there. He's not a killer. He's not somebody who goes out and wants to kill people although he certainly ended up ending somebody's life. So he could have a guilty reaction, but I think he's somebody who is into power and control. He needs to be in control of his inner personal relationships. As we know, you can't script relationships. What happens with someone like a George Zimmerman is he then gets angry. He doesn't have the verbal skills, the know-how to reduce conflict in nonviolent way.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Couldn't it also be as simple as he should be paranoid, a lot of people are out to get him because of what happened that was perceived as injustice in the Trayvon Martin case. And he is an easy mark so when he has trouble with somebody, it's easy to call the cops and say he is trying to kill me.

LUDWIG: That's an interesting idea and it's certainly possible and if you're paranoid for a good reason, you're not paranoid, you're just being smart. There's an element of truth there, but I think we're seeing an ongoing pattern. That's what's disturbing. I don't think every woman that chooses to be with George Zimmerman wants to call the police, what's in it for her. I think these women are frightened. He is an intimidating kind of guy and he handles things in a volatile, escalated way.

PEREIRA: Which is kind of a different George Zimmerman than we heard on that 911 call and a little different from what we saw in the courtroom.

LUDWIG: Well, what we know about people who are violent in the home is they're very good at presenting well outside of the home. So they know how to interact sometimes with the community, the police, in a very charming and ingratiating way. There could be two George Zimmermans where he can seduce people, at least initially, but when he gets involved in an intimate relationship, everything falls apart.

CUOMO: You think he has the ability to explode in a bigger way? That's the concern, right. Why do we follow these arrests? There's intrigue because of the original case, but also the fascination of the unknown, of what he's capable of.

LUDWIG: It's a train wreck. I mean, this person certainly is a danger to himself because he's getting worse and worse.

CUOMO: You see that?

LUDWIG: Yes. What does he need -- I mean, does he want to be in prison so it's a safe environment and he isn't in an environment when he's out of control?

BOLDUAN: It doesn't seem like he needs to be in a romantic relationship.

LUDWIG: No, no. Because he have very strict gender ideas about how people should act and that's always dangerous when you respond violently.

PEREIRA: Robi Ludwig is a human behavior expert. This is interesting perspective.

BOLDUAN: I don't think anyone should date him right now.

LUDWIG: I think that's safe to say. He's not a good bet. All right, I'm done.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Robi.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, is the "n" word ever acceptable? You think it's a no-brainer? Well, the Dolphins hazing scandal put that question front and center and there are different opinions especially when it comes to the locker room. Tweet us to help drive the debate that we're going to have, coming up.

BOLDUAN: Plus it turns out the flying circus wasn't dead, it was just resting. The Monty Python reunion is on, 30 years after the legendary Pythons made their last movie.

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BOLDUAN: Are we in paradise city in terms of the weather? Let's get straight to Indra.

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Temperatures 5 degrees to 10 degrees below normal. At least it's dry, conditions are very mild on the east coast and it will stay that way up until the weekend. So our weather will be changing pretty much in the northeast from everything that's going on right now in the Pacific Northwest.

So what are we watching? Heavy snow, I mean, tons of snow really expected in the Sierras and even through Wyoming and Colorado. Why so much? There's a huge moisture plume out there coming from Hawaii. Look at this guy, stretching all the way across the pacific. Of course, that would mean warm conditions and rain. That is intersecting with cold fronts out there. That's a story.

Two fronts we are going to be watching. The one making its way into the southwest bringing them heavy rain and flooding concerns through the weekend, but other frontal system is going to be making its way across the country bringing some heavy rain especially by maybe about Thursday into the Midwest. That's going to be affecting, of course, through Washington, Illinois. They're looking for light rain and by Thursday and Friday, some of those heavier bands to move through.

Behind it, the cold air so that's going to be the next story. Look at this cold air dive down. We are talking about temperatures 20 degrees below normal today in the Dakotas and Montana. By the time we jump through Friday, this cold air dives all the way down through Texas where highs in Dallas will be 20 degrees below normal for the start of the weekend.

Then we get into that weekend. There you go. It spreads all the way to the east. Temperatures a good 20 degrees below normal, pretty much anywhere you look, Chicago, highs into the 20s. I know, Kate, you said you love highs in the 20s in Chicago and a little bit of wind, feel goods.

BOLDUAN: You misinterpreted what I was saying. Thanks, Indra.

CUOMO: All right, judging by my Twitter thread, we're about to have quite a debate. Take a sip of coffee, time to put on your thinking hats. Here's why. The Miami Dolphins hazing scandal has made locker room culture a pop culture buzz word. What is acceptable in the locker room? What is not? What about the "n" word specifically?

Joining us now are CNN sports analyst Greg Anthony who says the word is used often in the locker room, not always necessarily in a racist context. We also have Major League Baseball pitcher, Latroy Hopkins, who says the word should never be tolerated and has confronted players about it. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

CUOMO: Greg, let's start by --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

CUOMO: -- the last time you were here, what is the allegation? The allegation is there were tweets between Incognito and Martin, one white, one black and the "n" word was used and the condemnation is Incognito should never use it, it's unacceptable. You say that's a qualified answer.

GREG ANTHONY, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes. I think if I'm not mistaken it was a text.

CUOMO: Yes.

ANTHONY: Text messages that were exchanged. Listen, I know we live in a society that wants to be politically correct and we want to try to govern everything that's said but to me, it's all about context when you're using certain words. Now, I'm not going to say the word, but I'll say what I say around some of my friends, the word that rhymes with bigger is used in environments a lot.

Again, if I'm in the situation where I'm at home, with a bunch of my friends over and we're playing spades or cards, the word's going to be used. It does come up in context, in the proper context. You juxtapose that with what happened with Riley Cooper from the Philadelphia Eagles. When he used the word he had a little truth juice, he was in an environment where it shouldn't have been used.

He spewed that type of language. That is not acceptable. But a locker room environment is much like your living room or your, you know, family room. So there are going to be things that are said in that area and context that would not be socially acceptable in other environments.

CUOMO: All right.

ANTHONY: I just think we have to have proper perspective when we're talking about this.

CUOMO: Latroy, what's the flip side of the perspective about the rules of the locker room and what they should be in your experience?

LATROY HAWKINS, MLB PITCHER: Well, the rules of the locker room, there are unwritten rules. My experience is that I've never came across, you know, a white guy ever using the word in a locker room. I've never come across that. I've come across a lot of young guys, younger generation, that listens to the Jay-Zs, Lil Waynes and they use the word quite frequently.

I have to pull them aside, try to make them understand, that word has so much negative everything toward it, so much disrespect and I tell them the story about my 88-year-old grandfather and how he was never called his name by a white man until he was 16 years old. He left Hallandale, Mississippi.

I try to explain it to them that way. I'm not going to say I never used the word, because I have. You know, like Greg said when I'm in an environment with my friends, I have friends that use it. I make it my business to try to, you know, fellows, let's not use that word. We're all adults. We have kids.

We don't want our kids using that word and we don't want anyone calling our kids that name or our friends. In our clubhouse, it's just not acceptable in that type of environment.

PEREIRA: Historical context is such an important part of this. Greg, you know I love you, man, Greg Anthony, I'm a big fan. You know we talked about this before. You talk about the fact that this is happening in a locker room. The fact is a locker room is a workplace. These are professional athletes. They are paid to do this job. Shouldn't the standard be held higher?

ANTHONY: Well, you could have that conversation but, again, I go back to context and the environment. To me, it's the environment. There are circumstances -- listen, there's even a difference -- listen, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Latroy. There's a difference in the locker room you're in.

PEREIRA: True.

ANTHONY: In baseball, the locker rooms aren't predominantly African- American so --

PEREIRA: That's true.

ANTHONY: That's my point about context. I would find it less acceptable in a baseball locker room where if there are 25 guys in there, 2 or 3 of them are African-American, OK? Because, again, that's the culture and the environment that you're in, so it wouldn't be nearly as socially acceptable as if I were at a basketball locker room and 12 of the 15 were African-American and also, a locker room --

CUOMO: Great point.

ANTHONY: We have to keep the perspective. The locker room is a lot like your living room. And Michaela, you would say things in your living room that you wouldn't say on air.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

ANTHONY: Is that fair to say?

CUOMO: I think Greg is being too gentle about the locker room. It's not like a living room. It's like a rumpus room. It's a room where nobody wants to go, but I think it's been an ignored part of the reality what happened with the Dolphins. We are very sensitive to bullying. Latroy, weigh in on this.

Sports, baseball, is a more sophisticated sport than let's say, football, maybe doesn't have the same violent demands in terms of basketball in terms of teams bonding together knowing that when we get out there, it's a fight that's about happening here and we kind of treat each other like we need to be ready for a violent game. Doesn't that the change the expectations especially of the male dynamic?

HAWKINS: You know, I have a problem with the media using the word bullying. Because my 12-year-old daughter said to me when it came out, Dad, I thought bullying was only for elementary kids or junior high schools like myself. I looked at her and said you have a great point, baby. I don't look at it as bullying. You have some hazing. When you're a rookie you'll go through hazing.

I've done it for 20 years. I was hazed. Never once was I -- my manhood, anything like that disrespected from the word. And I think when you start say taking it to that level, you change the game of hazing. You don't change it to bullying, but you change it into a personal attack. When you start personally attacking a man, he has to stand up for himself and defend himself because at the end of the day, you're a man first before you're the athlete.

In our clubhouse, you're right. Greg hit it on the nose. That's something I hadn't thought about, being less African-Americans in professional baseball. It would be less tolerable. I still am going to stand on the ground, you know, the word should not be thrown around, even in your home. We don't use it in my home, just because I don't want my daughter saying it. I don't want people to think that's how we raise our kids.

BOLDUAN: I agree.

HAWKINS: And my grandfather, once again, my grandfather is 88 years old. I talked to him this morning, he reiterated to me, the way he grew up, that word just -- it makes him furious just thinking about it.

BOLDUAN: Latroy --

HAWKINS: He explained to me he grew up on a plantation.

BOLDUAN: I agree with you. I come at it as it's never acceptable to say in the locker room or out. Charles Barkley said something interesting that has, I think, a lot of people thinking. Let's roll that sound bite. I want to get your reaction to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES BARKLEY, RETIRED BASKETBALL PLAYER: Matt Barnes, there's no apology needed. I'm a black man. I used the "n" word. I'm going to continue to use the "n" word with my black friends, with my white friends. What I do with my black friends is not up to white America to dictate to me what's appropriate and inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What do you think?

ANTHONY: I understand exactly where Charles is coming from. Again, in the context that Latroy just sat here and spoke to you all, I am in total agreement with him. Listen, I have three kids. My kids have never heard the word said by me. It's never been said in our home, but it's contextual.

Having said that, I'm black, my family grew up in Texas. They dealt with the same issues that Latroy and his family dealt with. What I'm saying is conceptually if I have my boys over and we're in my man cave and they're predominantly African-American, we say things that aren't politically correct. That's the only point I'm trying to make here.

We have to stop trying to put a blanket over the word in terms of the context it's used. If you listen to music, hip hop music, which I listen to, you hear that word said by people of all ethnicities. You know, you hear it. Now, it has been demeaned in terms of the historical significance of the word and I understand and I appreciate that. But cultures also are changing.

Younger people don't view the same culture that their grandparents and great grandparents grew up in. They don't live in that same environment. So we just have to have some perspective. I don't think it should be used in certain scenarios and in certain contexts.

But to say we need to just completely get rid of it, again, I do and have and probably will continue to use the word. But I don't use it in an offensive manner and I don't use it in an environment where it would make others uncomfortable.

CUOMO: Right. Greg Anthony, Latroy Hawkins, thank you very much. I appreciate it and I respect both of you coming on and having the discussion. I know it's good to bring in Charles Barkley as well. Of course, he can be offensive using a whole host of words. He doesn't have to use that. Thank you very much for coming on NEW DAY, fellows, it's an important conversation to have.

PEREIRA: It shows there is a, there is no consensus, even in the black community there's differing opinions about the issue.

CUOMO: And also there's a window into this locker room. We keep going back to it. It worried me when they started treating the locker room like the classroom. It is different especially in these violent sports. Should it be, shouldn't it be, bigger conversation.

BOLDUAN: Good to have the conversation. I think it was fabulous conversation that doesn't happen normally and this offers the opportunity.

PEREIRA: Nobody's yelling.

BOLDUAN: Good point.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, it's something even the Pythons never thought would happen but the five surviving members of "Monty Python" are reuniting. We are going to share our favorite "Monty Python" moments with you ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a strange person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now look here, my good man --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty- headed animal food troth whopper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: They taught us how to walk.

PEREIRA: Just get on the subway like that the next time you take a train, the silly walk. Monty Python, could they be bringing their special brand of comedy back to the stage, they said f-a-r-t on CNN -- don't toy with my emotions.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm not going to play with your emotions, Michaela, not on a Wednesday, on a hump day. Terry Jones let the cat out of the bag on Twitter.

PEREIRA: On Twitter?

TURNER: No, with an interview with the BBC and he said this is real. We're excited. We hope to make a lot of money because I got to pay my mortgage, nothing going on with the rent. Eric Idol was messing on Monday he tweeted that there would be a "Monty Python" press conference on Thursday. Everybody get ready because the news they're going to reveal big news. On Tuesday, he tweeted "we had a meeting this morning, press conference Thursday." It's expected the five remaining members will get back together for a stage show announced tomorrow on Thursday.

PEREIRA: Touring?

TURNER: Not sure. We don't know those details. We have to wait until tomorrow until the big press conference at the theater in London. So yes, so we're waiting, we're thinking, we think it's going to happen and we've been laughing all morning. My eyes are watering just laughing at that.

PEREIRA: This is the thing it causes to you go back and the brain is not working. That clip we played at the top, the Knights Husseiny, can we show that, you need a refresher.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nee, nee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the knights who say nee!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: How about you, Chris? I know you watched a lot of this as well. CUOMO: It got me on two levels. When that rabbit wound up attacking them. What a cute little bunny. It not only made me afraid of rabbits, but it was hilarious. Run away, run away! I said this in starting events throughout my entire life. Run away! Run away!

TURNER: Straight to YouTube, I've been laughing crying all morning.

PEREIRA: This say marathon.

BOLDUAN: Now you know what to do on hump day.

CUOMO: Thank you, good thing to contemplate.

PEREIRA: Always look on the bright side of your life.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, tweet us your favorite Monty Python clips kit. Here's our question, is a loss for the country, a win for Ted Cruz? He says he feels vindicated by the trouble with Obamacare and says a full repeal of the law is still in the cards. So was the freshman senator right all along or is he just dancing in the end zone. We're going to ask him a lot of things on NEW DAY, an exclusive coming up.

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