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Dr. Drew
Taking Leave After Drug Bust; Knockout Game Attacks Increasing?; Charges Dropped In Girl`s Suicide
Aired November 21, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, is the knockout game becoming a trend?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unsuspecting 50-year-old teacher James Addelsperger (ph) walks towards a group of boys. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, one of them violently knocks him to the ground.
PINSKY: Innocent victims suckered punch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boom came the punch and down I went.
PINSKY: Is this a hate crime or just plain hateful. The behavior bureau sounds off.
Plus, two girls accused of tormenting a teen to death now off the hook in a teen`s suicide. Why were the charges dropped?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is Sirius XM host Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, innocent people cold cocked in the name of -- I guess - - fun. We`ll have more on the so-called "knock out" game. Look at this. Pow! That is a head injury from which people may never recover.
First, cocaine congressman is now the contrite congressman. Trey Radel is now in treatment. He`s in rehab but he`s not resigning.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. TREY RADEL (R), FLORIDA: I`m sorry. I`ve let down my constituents. I`ve let down my family. Sure.
REPORTER: We haven`t seen your wife.
RADEL: Sure.
REPORTER: Why hasn`t she been with you in court or with you tonight?
RADEL: Sure.
REPORTER: I know this is hard for her, but where is she?
RADEL: With respect to my wife she`s been incredible. My wife is my rock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently, he`s been doing this for at that long time. The worst thing that happened to him is he got caught.
RADEL: I`ve been dealing with this off and on for years. I grew up with a mom who struggled with alcoholism. I don`t want my son to go through that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what offends me about this. You know what? When all else fails blame it on alcohol. You don`t go out buying cocaine because you have an alcohol problem.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: He says he`s doing that so he can continue to serve his country, aka, he wants to stay in office.
RADEL: With resignation I`m taking a leave of office. And I`m going to start with intensive inpatient treatment. That`s what`s next for me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, HLN`s Lynn Berry, defense attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar, and new to our group, Steven Crowder, comedian, conservative commentator, and Vanessa Barnett, host of HipHopHollywood.com.
Lynn Berry, what about this leave of absence? What`s the plan? How long?
BERRY: Well, he did want to stay in office. He did. He`s taking a leave of absence. He said it was for an undetermined amount of time and he`s going to this intensive therapy. And you got to respect him for that, at least he`s doing something about it -- because the guy that`s doing cocaine should not be making decisions for his constituents.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: No.
BERRY: He is not answering questions as to where his money is going. He said he`s donating his salary to charity. We reached out to his communications director. We did not get a response as to which charity he`s donating to.
But here`s where I respect the guy. He didn`t drag his wife up to the podium, sacrifice her in the name of looking like he has a wife standing by his side, which so many politicians have done.
PINSKY: Yes.
BERRY: He showed her the respect, let her stay home and dealt with his mistakes on his own.
PINSKY: I think that`s a great point. Let`s poll the women here.
Jenny, you want to talk about that?
HUTT: I do, Dr. Drew, because maybe she stayed home because she didn`t want to stand by his side.
PINSKY: Maybe.
HUTT: Maybe she`s so angry --
BERRY: She put a statement and she says that she is supporting him. She supports him and she`s going to stay with him. She said, in marriage, you take the good and bad.
He didn`t drag her up there for every --
HUTT: She should be angry.
BERRY: -- oh, I`m sure she`s angry. But he didn`t drag her up there for everyone to say, oh, look how sad she looks, or look how pissed she looks. Like Anthony Weiner`s wife. I mean, how pathetic that was he did that to his wife?
HUTT: Hold on, hold on, hold on. The idea that he did it to her, how do you know that Anthony Weiner`s wife didn`t choose to go up there?
PINSKY: The point is -- I think the point is well-taken and that`s something that was raised, just let it be. And that is that a lot of these guys have dragged the women up there, and made them take the shame, the heat of the shame with him.
This guy first up in his recovery is pretty good, which is making it clear it`s all on me.
Now, after you apologize, Facebook and Twitter people responded. Here is from at @treyman. He said, "You shouldn`t run for re-election. I may have voted for you but now you don`t deserve to rep us here on southwest Florida. You can`t be trusted."
Steven Crowder, should he stay or should he go?
STEVE CROWDER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, first, ladies, I want to say, token conservative here, I`m shocked that the assertation she would need to stay home was made by the females on this panel.
Listen, let me say a couple of things here, in light of recent political scandal, it`s not the worst thing. He didn`t send anyone a picture of his danager (ph). He didn`t come out and admit he`s a vegan or anything like that.
I understand that it`s good he came out. He went the disease card a little bit too quickly. I understand addiction is a disease. Some guys are not remorseful. They just get caught.
But here`s my question. Is there not any kind of drug testing in a place here? I had to pee in a cup to work in a department store Santa. And these people can hold political office? I had to avoid poppy seeds for six weeks. How did that happen?
PINSKY: It`s a great question.
Anahita, should we have drug testing for our representatives?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: You know, you would argue that possibly, yes, they are government workers. Other government workers need to be drug tested. And, you know, I actually, you`re going to be surprised by this, because, you know, I`m normally a law and order kind of girl.
But I`m feeling kind of forgiving today. I don`t know, maybe, it`s almost Friday. But I actually really respect this guy. I don`t think he should resign because if you look at what`s been going on recently, you look at crack mayor in Toronto, you look at grope mayor in San Diego, Filner, who is walking up and down the streets of San Diego grabbing breasts like it`s nobody`s business. At least this guy, he`s admitting he has a problem, he`s stepping down voluntarily although temporarily, he`s getting help.
And I`d like to call him cocaine congressman if that`s OK.
PINSKY: That`s OK.
Vanessa, what are your thoughts?
SEDAGHATFAR: But I respect him.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I don`t respect him at all. He can stay. That`s fine. But I don`t respect him.
What he`s giving you is exactly what you want. You want the apology tour. You want him to hug his wife and kiss his baby and go to rehab and donate to charity and blah, blah, blah. It`s like an episode of "Scandal."
He`s only doing this for self-preservation. He wants to keep his job. As any good politician does, he keeps fighting until he`s completely knocked out of the game. No respect here.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, that`s it. And that`s for his constituents to decide, I think.
You know if his constituents decide that after a year or after rehab, hey, he`s not good, don`t re-elect him. Dr. Drew, he can always pursue a career in rap. He can do a duet with Jay-Z. That`s a second --
(CROSSTALK)
CROWDER: Let me interject.
PINSKY: Why shouldn`t, though, Steven, he`d be able to keep his job like anybody else who has a job to takes out more medical treatment and return?
CROWDER: Yes.
PINSKY: Then, he`s irresponsible with his job, he may not be able to keep it.
CROWDER: To quote the great Ferris Bueller, but you did screw up, though, right? And this guy did.
You want to talk about -- I have so much respect for this guy. No. I have so much respect for a guy who slapped a rifle on his back and has bombs going overhead in Iraq.
This guy you`d say, he`s screwed up, OK? I`m not as disappointed in you as I could have been if you`ve taken the space odyssey upward Weiner picture angle and sent it to underage girls, that would have been worse.
But I`m not proud of you. I don`t respect this guy. If this guy walked in, I wouldn`t say, hey, man I respect you.
PINSKY: Between Steven`s imagery and Anahita`s visual impressions of the mayor from San Diego, I may never get over this panel.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let me see that again, Anahita. What did the mayor did?
SEDAGHATFAR: Groping women, the grope mayor, up and down the halls of San Diego city hall.
PINSKY: The grope mayor.
All right, guys. Thank you very much.
We`re going to switch gears. Ultimately, we`re going to talk about the knockout game. We`re going to get to that in just a second. It may be the worst so-called game ever. But it is something that is really apparently spreading. It`s hard to believe. That`s an example.
And later, surprising twist in the case of a 12-year-old girl who was driven to suicide by her classmates. They are off the hook tonight. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REPORTER: It`s a painful scene to watch.
PINSKY: It`s called the knockout game.
REPORTER: Unsuspecting 50-year-old teacher James Addelsperger walks towards a group of boys. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, one of them violently knocks him to the ground.
PINSKY: Walking by, suckered punch, knock him out and they kind of stroll away proud of themselves.
REPORTER: His limp body lies on the concrete as the group walks away.
PINSKY: That`s a head injury you may never recover from, if you`re lucky enough to survive.
REPORTER: Flowers marked the spot where a homeless man in New Jersey was beaten to death in September. This attack happened in 2012 in Pittsburgh. But the so-called knockout or one hit quitter game as spread elsewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just like threw a hook with his left hand and just got me in the face and he said, wa-pow.
(EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt, our new knockout game so-called being reported, more assault including an 80-year-old man in Pennsylvania who was mowing his lawn, a 78-year-old great grandmother.
Jenny, this is happening in your backyard. My understanding that there`s a lot of media coverage in New York.
HUTT: Yes, there is. It`s happening in my backyard. It`s happening -- really scary Dr. Drew as if we need more to be afraid of.
I mean, I have to worry when I walk down the street.
PINSKY: Are people talking about it. Is it commonplace discussion?
HUTT: It actually is. Well not how you protect yourself other than just pay attention. But I`ve been barraged with e-mails in the past day from friends of mine who aren`t big media people just regular moms are emailing each other to let us know look out.
PINSKY: Let`s get the behavior bureau together here.
Starting with Heather McDonald, comedian, producer for "Chelsea Lately"; Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network, Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist and HLN contributor, Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30-Day Love Detox".
Tiffanie, is this knock out game a game or is it a symptom of the underlying violence and aggression that`s bubbling up in our culture?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it`s a little bit of both. In some ways, I feel like it`s a dumb game. Kids that have nothing better to do which is really sad. You know, when I was a youngster, you know, it was go outside, play, get involved in sports, do activities. My mom and dad kept me very, very busy.
These kids must have absolutely nothing to do than to find this to do, to walk up to somebody -- like you need to be doing something, get a part time job, do something.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam.
(CROSSTALK)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, YOUNG TURKS NETWORK: Dr. Drew, I think it actually attracts three types of teens. I think it`s either of the team who are so calloused that they actually enjoy hurting an innocent person or a teenager that normally falls victim to peer pressure and maybe they feel guilty afterwards.
Or maybe you can answer to this, maybe somebody going through trauma at home and this is their outlet.
PINSKY: That`s right. They`ve been traumatized.
SCHACHER: They`re symptoms of bad parenting.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Wendy, first.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I want to go bigger and look at the sociology here. Twenty-five percent of American kids are being raised by a single mother with an absentee father, OK? And 30 percent of those kids had not even seen their dad in a year.
When boys are developing testosterone and rampant, and they`re spending their days watching violent video games, they need a strong male to sort of kick them in line.
PINSKY: Heather, go ahead.
HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIAN: What`s so sad what you`re saying about single family homes and everything, and it might be too late for these kids.
Doing like Little League and everything takes so much time. I don`t know how a single parent can do it. It`s expensive. You have to get off of work by 3:00 to take your kid to the event. So, they end up missing that time.
And by the time they are 15, they are not in any sport. They don`t have any other activity.
WALSH: And they need an outlet.
MCDONALD: They don`t feel they can join the team.
PINSKY: And by 3:00, Heather is in her chardonnay. She can`t take her kids into the Little League matches. Is that right?
MCDONALD: I know, my husband takes the kids to little league and I bring the chardonnay and watch it like a good parent does.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Yes, Jenny?
HUTT: I think we can`t look at it as every single mother is going to have a child who`s going to grow up and potentially play the potential knock out game. I can`t look at the family structure is so varied in our world today thankfully and I refuse to make it like it`s all about whether or not there`s a dad in the house, because frankly there are plenty of dads --
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: I don`t think it`s about a dad. I think it`s about having a child another purpose besides going school. They have to have at least one other activity, sport or interest.
WALSH: Single mothers can`t be doing that.
MCDONALD: That`s what I`m saying --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: The other thing --
WALSH: Because I`ve got to take her from this show to her sports thing and it nearly kills me all the night I drive to these sporting events to try to keep it going. But I`m a single mother and I try to make it happen. And I look at what`s going out there.
If I had boys, I`d be in big trouble. Trust me.
PINSKY: Listen, one thing research shows that males that are raised without a father, without at least one other stable role model or relationship with a male outside of the home, it only takes one, without that, they are prone to aggression, prone to difficulty containing aggression.
A 50-year teacher assaulted in this surveillance video, spoke to CNN affiliate WTAE in Pittsburgh. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video speaks for itself but I don`t remember it happening when it happened. I was shocked -- I was shocked at the whole narrative of it. Boom came the punch and down I went, you know, straight down with my face falling and hitting the cold concrete.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, guys, I`ve said this before, human -- our skulls are not constructed like the three Stooges or cartoons would suggest. You can`t get hit in the head like that -
WALSH: He`s so lucky.
PINSKY: -- and just walk away.
He -- I`m certain he has symptoms even though he seems fine and maybe he`s mostly fine you have memory problems from that kind of a thing. The teen was punched, the teen who punched that Pittsburgh teacher was only charged with simple assault.
Wendy --
MCDONALD: Why are they only being charged with simple assault? It should be attempted murder. Why are there not being more kids being caught if they are on videotape.
PINSKY: I don`t have --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: The attempted murder would go to, I would think what the intention was. An intentional murder would have to be they thought they were attempting to kill that person. There could be a recklessness like a reckless homicide type of charge, but maybe the kids mental state is really just thinking it`s a game and nobody is really going to get so hurt.
SCHACHER: But I also think that these parents should be investigated. If they are going arrest these children, which I think they do, which I think they should, but I also they should look into these children`s homes, because something is going on.
PINSKY: One thing, I know. One thing I know. If you hit your kid with an object they are more likely to hit other people.
WALSH: Very true, very true.
PINSKY: Think about that.
Next up, more with our behavior bureau.
Later, a driver trying to set a land speed record loses control of the vehicle at 200 mile-per-hour. Take a look. It`s a video you have to see to believe. All caught on camera.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: OK. So we are live tonight as we generally usually are and as we were just on the air a few minutes ago some breaking news came into our producers and we want to share this with you. We`re going to change the content of the behavior bureau. We`re going to talk about a Massachusetts student being indicted today for horrific and unspeakable acts.
If you all remember the story, we had covered it sometime ago. It was a 14-year-old Phil Chism. Remember, the teacher was found dead behind this Danvers High School. Well, now, he`s been charged with murder, aggravated rape, and armed robbery.
Prosecutors have been asked that he now be tried as an adult. So, there`s more to this story. We`re going to discuss with our behavior panel.
Heather, Sam, Tiffanie and Wendy.
So, Wendy, I`ll start with you. When we were talking -- we let you guys know we would be changing our behavior bureau topic -- you reacted very powerfully this now is a rape. Does it help us understand this -- remember, we couldn`t make sense of it before? Does it help focus it or does it even make it more of a mystery?
WALSH: No, for me, it helps to focus it. Remember, Dr. Drew, I very hypothetically said in an extreme circumstance, maybe this boy was sexually abused, maybe he had a spontaneous erection while he was working closely with his teacher. Maybe this caused him to feel rage because of it. In other words, arousal is linked to feelings of rage for him.
So, unless he has an organic mental illness, my suspicion tells me that he may have been abused himself and it may have had a sexual component.
PINSKY: I agree. However, Tiffanie, can be more of a genetic problem, a brain problem that he was born with, where he couldn`t control his aggression, if you remember this family moved a ton. I wonder if that was because the family was trying to get away from what this kid was doing in these various localities?
HENRY: It could be that. I also remember this was a kid that was very quiet, very withdrawn. A lot of his classmate said he didn`t interact very much. We thought at that time that maybe it`s because he moved around a lot. I think that a lot to be learned from this case.
And certainly, there was something going at home. I don`t think that this is some isolated incident that came out of nowhere. But I think it will prove positive for us to delve what`s going on in his family life and what`s going on around him to explain maybe what happened to the teacher on that day.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Well, also, Dr. Drew, let`s remember that this teenager that after brutally murdering his teacher and now we learned raped her went out and had dinner immediately after and then saw a movie. I think he`s a psychopath.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: It seems --
PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: -- dissociative, right? Isn`t that what it`s called? What does that called --
PINSKY: No, no. Yes, disassociation where people feel out of body or looking at things through a tunnel and sometimes rages can emerge in a state of disassociation.
But I kind of agree with who just said that -- Sam, you were just saying that? That the cold callousness of it.
SCHACHER: Callousness, yes.
PINSKY: And now, I agree with Wendy, though, that the rape helps sort of make it all, all the pieces come together why he targeted this woman.
MCDONALD: Do you think he just like snapped? It doesn`t sound like this was super planned out, like he`s been methodically (INAUDIBLE) doesn`t sound like that.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I think it`s a kid with sort -- and again, we`re speculating wildly. We`re doing it for the sake of trying to understand this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: It`s a kid that either had the abuse history that Wendy is suggesting or had brain psychopathic stuff that I`m talking about. He raped somebody and in that moment -- she -- who knows what kind of struggle went on and did not have the usual boundaries that the rest of us have to doing something horrible.
SCHACHER: Didn`t he bring a box cutter, Dr. Drew? So, that`s calculating.
PINSKY: It is premeditated a little bit but premeditated in order to carry out the rape not necessary on order to kill.
Jenny, what?
HUTT: But what Wendy said -- Wendy, I have a question for you. What you were talking about is that you said he could have just had a spontaneous erection and the arousal could have caused rage. What is that --
WALSH: So, I know he`s never been a 14-year-old before.
HUTT: He`s not.
WALSH: But things pop up.
HUTT: I know what a spontaneous erection is. I don`t know it`s rage associated.
WALSH: Well, remember, if you were sexually abused as a very young child, your body violated, and, again, I`m not saying this happened to him or his family. I`m hypothetically talking about how the rage can happen. The rage becomes comorbid with arousal so that when you get arousal, your reflex is to, you know, fight back.
I heard stories of people who had sexual abuse as a child and whenever they are now grown up adult lover, they find themselves spontaneously biting the lover, enraged and they can`t figure out why.
SCHACHER: But then, why did he bring a box cutter to school with him that day?
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Who knows if it`s fear based and carries this kind of thing every day and that it happened because now he has -- maybe after the rape, he felt such shame he had to get rid of all evidence of this.
MCDONALD: I wonder if this will make certain young female teachers not want to teach past middle school? It could be a scary environment, because this was a really scary thing. Here`s a beautiful girl, and she was teaching. And he was freshman in high school.
WALSH: It`s also very, very rare.
PINSKY: Listen, guys, do I have some new information that is just coming to me right now. There`s court papers from 12 years ago that revealed that Chism`s father agreed during a separation from the mother to have restricted time with the son who was then 2 because of, quote, "prior physical and emotional abuse as well as alcohol abuse."
WALSH: There you go.
PINSKY: Yes, the parents were attempting to reconcile but that`s a hint something awful must have been going on in the home at that time.
WALSH: And, Dr. Drew, we have to always reiterate over and over the earlier the abuse takes place to the body, the more the effects. It`s not that they don`t remember. Their body holds the key.
PINSKY: That`s exactly right. For people that go, I don`t remember the abuse. The kid is fine they will never remember it. Your body remembers it. The implicit memories are left in our emotional systems.
Just as what`s going to happen to Heather McDonald for having been on this panel.
Heather, the one liability of bringing our friends into the panel, you never know when it`s going to get heavy on you.
MCDONALD: It`s OK. I mean, you know. It`s just a horrible story. But it`s another one of those things where I feel so badly for the mother. The mother who separated -- must be so horrible to be a mother of any of these children that do these horrific acts because they are not -- the burden they must feel.
PINSKY: Heather, the crazy thing -- maybe not crazy but the thing to think about when we start blaming the parents, if the parents were not in some way directly responsible for the kids` behavior, you now created another victim.
By the way if the parents did have something to do it maybe they were victimized. So, it`s a very complicated phenomenon.
If you have a question or comment tweet us @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau. We are on Instagram @DrDrewHLN.
Next, a 12-year-old girl jumps to her death. Why aren`t her alleged tormentors facing charges? We`ll talk about it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. And Jenny, I want to share a tweet with you. And of course, our dear friend, Danine Manette who is usually on our "Behavior Bureau," has a way of throwing dynamite into the conversation tonight, has managed to throw a stick of dynamite in without even being here.
She tweets, "I honestly think she was raped after her throat was slit as his last act of aggressive climax then dumped her body in defiance." Fortunately, Danine, my brain doesn`t work like that, but you`re right it`s possible. It`s possible. Jenny, your reaction.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
HUTT: Yes, listen, I think it`s possible and that`s just extra sick. But my concern and what upsets me so much, it just seems like the rage of these young boys -- how do we fix it? We can`t control their behavior. I have a 13-year-old daughter who goes to parties with 14-year-old boys. The whole thing is just maddening and upsetting. How do you protect them?
PINSKY: I understand your anxiety and, again, being a good parent on your side. But the unfortunate reality is that our penitentiary system becomes the mental health delivery system of last resort and that`s really sad. That`s an expensive ineffective terrible way to deal with this problem. We`re going to leave it, though. We`re going to switch topics.
We`re going to talk about Rebecca Sedwick, 12-year-old girl who killed herself apparently after being tormented to death. Two of her fellow classmates have been charged in the case. Now, those charges have dropped. One of the girls` attorneys had harsh words for the sheriff. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I bullied Rebecca and she killed herself but I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Watch what your children do online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was about months and months and months of harassing, tormenting --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harassers. They are the two stalkers. They are the two bulliers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both girls were charged with aggravated stalking after Sedwick committed suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State attorney`s office is dropping the charges because there is zero evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Jose Baez, the youngest girl`s lawyers says his client is the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our goal is that these kids never bully anyone again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baez is demanding an apology from Judd (ph), claiming the way he handled the case was reckless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff Grady Judd wanted to give me some legal advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had there been no arrest, there would be no counseling for these two girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`ve got some advice for him. He should get a lawyer and a darn good one because he`s going need it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense attorney is trying to move the focus off of his client and he`s not successfully doing that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with us, Lynn, Anahita, Steven, and Vanessa. Jose Baez, guys, he`s back in the spotlight again. He`s not going to get any brownie points for this one, I don`t think. you guys agree with me
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Anahita.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, Jose Baez, OK, I have a lot of respect for him as a defense attorney. He`s just doing his job. But even he admitted on TV today that this case is way too small for him. He normally wouldn`t even touch cases like this. It`s a juvenile case. So, I think this is really about Jose at this point. I think he loves the publicity. It`s free advertising for him, quite frankly.
PINSKY: And --
SEDAGHATFAR: He loves the media exposure.
PINSKY: Anahita -- well, Jenny, thank goodness, you`re an attorney, too, so I can attack (ph) two attorney. He`s not going to make any money. He`s going to get the spotlight and he may ruin the sheriff`s reputation. The sheriff was trying to really do something good for us out there. He`s going to be silenced. Any other sheriffs that might be thinking of doing a great job are now going to be silenced.
SEDAGHATFAR: Not really, Dr. Drew, because there`s absolutely no viable case against the sheriff`s department, OK? There is something called immunity. And I think it`s going to be very hard to get around that, Dr. Drew. Again, I think this is just Jose Baez trying to get the media exposure, to get the attention. There`s no lawsuit here. There`s no case.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you disagree with me?
VANESSA BARNETT, HOST, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I do disagree. I think from the job the sheriff releasing those two photos was, quote, "reckless." I feel like he wanted to make an example out of these girls and yes we think Baez is a little looney, he want as lawsuit, all of those things.
He`s not going to get that. But it started at the top. It started with these two photos. And, if you want to talk about torment and harassment, there are no winners here. What do you think these girls are going through now? They`re minors. Their pictures should have never been released.
PINSKY: Steven, you agree with that?
STEVEN CROWDER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, first of, I`m shocked that I just heard on this panel someone said they respect this defending attorney. Respect is being thrown around quite willy-nilly. Listen, here`s -- any time bullying comes up, it`s the word dejour, leftists scream about how is this epidemic and it`s worse than ever.
And that`s largely because of them because they removed parents ability to discipline their children. You know, the bully`s natural predator is (INAUDIBLE). It`s this leftist new ages social engineering that breeds super bullies.
(CROSSTALK)
CROWDER: Hold on a second. There`s a lot of overlapping dialogue here. Hold on. There`s a lot of overlapping dialogue here.
You have an entire generation of people, my generation who could figuratively have grown the up without ever having pass a test, yet never seen a bright red F, having played for soccer teams that never scored a goal yet never lost a game, having never learned how to respectfully address adults, yet never having had their hide absolutely tanned by a wooden spoon and we wonder why their moral compass is caddywhompus. Come on --
SEDAGHATFAR: First, let me respond to your other panelist. Yes, actually, I do have respect for individuals that work to protect our constitutional rights as should you as the token conservative on this panel as you coined yourself. And Dr. Drew, back to accountability here, this whole case had people talking about accountability. Maybe the parents of the bullies should be criminally liable for the action of their kids.
But I think what no one`s talking about here and I`m sorry I`m going to say this is the accountability of Rebecca`s own mother, the girl who unfortunately killed herself, because Dr. Drew, her mother knew that she was being tormented and harassed. She knew that this was taking place on Facebook on social media and yet she did absolutely nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Lynn, you spoke to her. Let`s get the facts out here. Go ahead, Lynn.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Yes. She took her child out of school. She tried to home school her. She tried to protect her. She tried to look at all of her social media. This girl then logged on to different accounts. She did the best that she could as a mother. Here`s what`s being lost in this story.
The sheriff said if they would have gone to trial with this, everything would have been brought out including the victim`s medical records for the sake of this young victim he negotiated counseling which would have been the same result if this would have gone to trial. So, this was a negotiation and they still are getting the same punishment. So, he would have done the same thing.
Jose Baez is turning this around in the media saying because the charges were dropped, they`re not guilty of anything. They weren`t charged with murder. They were charged with aggravated stalking. They would have gone to counseling even if they would have been found guilty for that. So, these parents of the accused tormentors, going on the "Today" show morning and saying my child did nothing wrong. That`s the disservice to this country --
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: Lynn, thank God you just said that, Lynn.
CROWDER: I think that`s a good point, but I think more of a disservice to this country is putting your kids in maybe public schools with zero tolerance policies.
HUTT: Stop it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jenny, go.
HUTT: OK. Come on, Steven. It`s enough of that. How do we look at what`s at hand?
PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Lynn was 100 percent correct, that those parents with that child today on the "Today" show should have only said we`re so sad and we`re so sorry that this girl lost her life. We weren`t thrilled that our kids picked her -- on the screen, but we are so sad about the dead child. That should have been it.
And that little girl should have said, I don`t think I did anything that was criminal, but I should not have ever done what I did, that poor child. That is it. That kid is dead.
PINSKY: Yes. And I think that Steven was tilting a little bit at the big problem here which is the fact that parents -- hang on, Steve. Hold on. Hold it -- that parents are mortified that their child would be anything other than perfect. The scariest thing that I ever hear a parent say is not my kid.
That is scary, because it could be any of your kids and we are so narcissistically self-involved that the kids are an extension of ourselves. That`s why Steven said they never should make a goal in soccer, they can get awards for having done nothing. That`s about us not about them. Thank you, panel.
Next up, the "Behavioral Bureau" looks at these girls who allegedly tormented Rebecca and their parents.
And later, a driver going 200 miles an hour loses control of this car. Whole thing is caught on video. We will get into it, oh, my goodness after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids, one of them especially Mr. Baez`s client recognizes her shortcoming and the fact that she bullied Rebecca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel you did anything wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED KID: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you did not?
UNIDENTIFIED KID: No, I did not feel I did anything wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These children, both of them, are in diversion and counseling programs which is what we want. And the formality is for the charges to be dropped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. And Jenny, we`re talking a lot tonight about disturbing behaviors of young people and this interesting tweet came through.
"Wake up Dr. Drew and Behavior Bureau. My middle school students terrorize most of the female teachers here young and old." And this is -- I think she`s referring back to that Chism story with the poor teacher -- begin to describe how tragic -- tragic story of the woman who is now we know was raped and slaughtered.
All right. We`ll bring in the "Behavior Bureau," heather, Sam, Tiffanie, and Wendy. No charges for the pre-teen girls accused of antagonizing the classmate relentlessly, and the girl ended up, just 12- year-old, ends up jumping to her death. Dropping the charges. Is that the right message, Heather, to put out there you think?
HEATHER MCDONALD, STORY PRODUCER, "CHELSEA LATELY": I do think the charges should be dropped. They are girls. And they are young girls. And it`s terrible. And, just the fact that they were arrested, I think, the message is getting out. I know our schools are working so hard to try to teach kids not to be bullied. They also need to work that hard about suicide prevention, because that is the most important thing to say.
Guess what, people are going to be mean. They`re going to write mean things on Facebook. They`re going to say mean things to you in the hall that to give their self-esteem enough that they`ll never go to such a permanent resolution to a temporary problem. That`s where I think the bigger thing is is suicide prevention.
PINSKY: I actually agree with you. And Tiffanie, Heather brings up a really important point here, which is these mental health issues, kids of that younger age who have tend to kind of -- they`re mean to people that are vulnerable. That`s sort of a part of the developmental process. How do we get people to understand that we need to really protect those kids and deal with the mental health issues and not just the bullying.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s a serious mental health issue. And certainly, what we`ve seen with a lot of those kids that are bullies, they tend to have, unfortunately, parents that are bullies as well. And so, it`s a learned behavior and it all starts at home.
The good thing is, the good news is that these girls are getting counseling. They are getting treatment. But, the bigger issue is that someone had to lose their life in order for them to get it.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, Tiffanie is absolutely right. Do you remember the footage that we recently saw of the older bully`s mother who absolutely beat the crap out of one of her kids?
PINSKY: I think it was not even her kid. It was like another -- somebody else`s kid.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: So, why aren`t these parents being held accountable? In this specific case, I think these parents should be held accountable. They`re doing nothing but escaping the accountability. They`re minimizing their children`s involvement --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Heather, go ahead.
MCDONALD: It`s so hard with the kid`s brain, OK? I remember being in seventh grade and we had a friend and the two friends came and said, we don`t want to be friends with Michele anymore. The three of us are going to tell her at lunch today that we don`t want to be friends with her. And I -- we walked up to this girl and we said, we don`t want to be friends with you anymore. And she`s like, is this a joke?
And I knew it was horrible. And it was awful. I see (ph) to my brain. It haunts me to this day. Thank God I made up with the girl. We`re friends today, but it was awful. And she had a horrible middle school experience. And why did I do it? I don`t know, because I`m 12.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hang on. The difference in magnitude only, I would say. Heather brings up a really important point.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: There is a (INAUDIBLE), Wendy. There`s -- one of them had said I don`t care that she killed herself. I don`t give an "F."
(CROSSTALK)
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX": The difference is technology. The difference is technology, because the shame is so global when its put on the internet. And secondly --
SCHACHER: But Heather got remorseful. But Heather got remorseful. This girl doesn`t feel remorseful.
PINSKY: OK, but hold on. I`m interested in the global aspects, what you guys are addressing here, not just a particular story. Which amongst you can say you didn`t as a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old did not do something like what Heather described that you regret today? Anybody --
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: -- only because I was probably the one being teased.
PINSKY: OK. Let`s talk about that. How did that feel?
HUTT: Thanks Dr. Drew. It felt awful. It still feels awful.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: Hold on. But the important thing that I just heard someone on the panel say is that we have to take these kids today, the ones who are on the receiving end and the ones who are sort of doling it out because it can turn on a dime and we have to say to these girls nothing is so bad and boys nothing is so bad that you have to end your life. Nothing.
If you accidentally tweet a naked picture, don`t kill yourself. If someone calls you a loser, you don`t kill yourself. There`s no reason to kill yourself.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Unfortunately, Rebecca was suffering from depression and other things in her life. You can`t control all of that.
MCDONALD: Also, with all the Facebook and everything, suicide is glamorized. Cutting is glamorized. Some kids will just re-tweet an Instagram picture of a cutting arm. And I try to tell my daughter, by doing that, you are glamorizing cutting. Even though it wasn`t you -- they don`t understand. They just don`t get it.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: We`re creating copycats right now by talking about it. The thing that`s happening with technology is instead of teaching kids how to manage their feelings, we`re creating celebrity out of the worst case scenarios.
SCHACHER: I don`t think so. I think we`re creating a dialogue. I think this is great. I think with social media nowadays, parents and this generation needs to have this dialogue with their children. This is new.
PINSKY: It probably cuts both ways. It probably cuts both ways.
MCDONALD: You know, all the kids hear about now is bullying. You`re a bully. Bully, bully, bully, bully. I told my kids to take a bath the other day and he said you`re bullying me.
(LAUGHTER)
MCDONALD: I said your feet stink. A mother can`t bully their child. But they`re like, you just told me my feet stink. I`m like, it`s because they do.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: They`re so told about how not to be a bully.
PINSKY: Hang on, Heather. I`ll talk to your kids. I`ll tell them you`re a mean girl. You`re not a bully --
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: So, OK. Thank you guys.
Next up, we will show you what happens when a car wipes out at 200 miles an hour. Take a look. We`ll be right back in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Jenny, Heather, Sam, and Tiffanie. And before we get on to our next topic, I just want to thank you guys for being so revealing and so forthcoming about that last topic because it really -- honestly, there must be nothing worse than being a 12-year-old female, right? Fifteen to 17-year-old male is rough, but a 12-year-old girls got to be just the roughest thing.
So, you guys talked about your experience. I think, in addition, all the other things you talked about, about suicide awareness and you know being -- not being a bully but you guys sharing your experience, I think, is very powerful. So, thank you for doing that. Now, we`re going to go on to some cool boys --
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: This video we can`t stop watching. The guy actually survives. This is Brian Gillespie. He`s an attempt to break the --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Team clocked him at 185 miles an hour before he flipped. It`s just amazing that somebody can survive that kind of an impact.
HUTT: How?
HENRY: It`s amazing his body remained in the car.
PINSKY: And just the deceleration -- and people don`t think about this. there`s something call a deceleration injury when your body stopped moving, your organs keep moving forward and you could tear -- you actually tear -- tear your organ (ph) apart just by the organs moving forward and your body stopping. He suffered a concussion which is not a great thing. He has no memory of the crash that`s why he -- you know, that`s what the concussion did. He also had a collapsed lung. Surprise, surprise.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: What is it about these adrenaline junkies that make them crave these death defying experiences and wants to do it again?
PINSKY: And Heather, you look -- mystified.
MCDONALD: First of all, I hate people that do stuff like this. I hate people that climb Mount Everest. I hate people that go on hikes by themselves and then we have to get the helicopters finding them. Just stop. This is so stupid. I feel horrible.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: You can hate people that go on hikes by themselves -- hate the ones that go with their wives that push them off.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: That too is not great. But anything that`s super risky like this is like why? Why would you ever do this?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We`ll have to leave it with that. Got to go. "Last Call" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: "Last Call." And we really used up all our time tonight, so I want to say thank you. Goodnight. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.
END
