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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Teens Target Strangers for `Knockout Game`; Ex-Wife: George Zimmerman a Ticking Time Bomb

Aired November 21, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight we are learning about the newest victims in a vicious, and I mean, vicious game teenage perpetrators are playing called the knockout game.

And tonight we have just learned a 78-year-old woman was targeted by a teenager who knocked her down as hard as he could in a sick sport that is becoming the rage around the country. Rage being the operative word. And it`s even spreading to the whole world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The so-called knockout game, a game that`s proven deadly in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You assault them to the degree that somebody loses consciousness, it`s serious business.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Teens striking unsuspecting strangers, essentially violence for the sake of violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video speaks for itself, but I don`t remember it happening when it happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Videos of attacks posted online.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids, I think, don`t understand the significance of what they think is a game, really sometimes has permanent consequences.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks so much for joining me.

How sick is this? How sick is this? It`s happened in as many as six different states and even overseas, across the pond, as it were.

A 16-year-old girl, you`re looking at it now. Sixteen-year-old girl, boom, knocked out in London last year. You can see, he`s not trying to rob her. He just turns the other way and runs. Out of nowhere, why? It`s a game.

I`m happy to say that that young lady recovered, but others have been killed by this knockout game. The teens often target the elderly -- what an act of cowardice -- including a 78-year-old great grandmother. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he passed her, he turned around and punched her in the head. He did not take anything from her. She was stunned. She`s terrified. She takes care of her great-grandchildren all day. And she walks with them in the carriages. She now will not leave the front of her building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As many as eight people have been attacked in this woman`s neighborhood alone. The cops are put on alert. Extra officers are going into areas where these random knockout attacks have happened, but they`re happening everywhere. Are we going to live in an armed camp?

We`re now learning victims are fighting back. So watch out, teen perps. Cops say this teenager tried to play the knockout game but got caught after the guy he was targeting, he tried to knock over, pulled out a gun and shot him twice.

What should be done with these teenagers? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Why do you think it`s happening? I want to know from you: 1-877-586-7297.

We have a fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel tonight. We begin with contributing editor to "Marie Clair" magazine, Siggy Flicker. Siggy, is the world going mad, that teenagers think that sadistically assaulting a total stranger, especially an elderly woman, is fun and a sport?

SIGGY FLICKER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "MARIE CLAIR": I just want to scream when you say that. It`s absolutely absurd. It`s disgusting. Where are the parents in this? What are people thinking? What are people thinking when you think of a game?

To knock out -- and if you watch that video, that one man blasted that woman so hard in the face that she was knocked out before she hit the concrete. Imagine what the concrete did to her. That poor thing. It`s disgusting on every level, and I`m outraged.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am outraged, as well, but I`m also baffled. And right now, we`re going to try to figure out why this is happening.

The knock-out game is going viral. That means it is catching on. So cops say it`s evolving -- I say devolving -- into something more vicious and sinister. Now they`re knocking out total strangers using Taser guns. I`m not joking.

Cops say 17-year-old Marvell Weaver tried to Tase a man who was waiting for his daughter at a bus stop by using a stun gun to try to knock him out, but the Taser, which was reportedly capable of generating almost two volts, wouldn`t fire. Instead the intended victim pulled out his registered legal handgun and shot the teenager twice. This teen you`re looking at, he survived. He was sentenced to a year in jail for illegal possession of a stun gun.

Back to the Lion`s Den. Lisa Bloom, legal analyst with Avvo.com, it`s a new level of sickness, that kids would want to escalate the suffering of complete strangers by zapping them with a stun gun, an act that is torturous.

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Yes. It`s an act of domestic terrorism, really, if you`re going to walk up and just assault somebody like that and scare everybody else in the community that they could be next. And as you point out, for what? I mean, it`s a sad day in America when we`re holding up robbers as paragons of values and virtue. Well, at least robbers we can understand, because they hit somebody and they take their money. We can understand that. They`re terrible, too.

But this is really a whole new level. Violence just for violence`s sake. I think parents and teachers have to teach values and empathy. That`s what`s clearly missing in these teenagers` lives.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s beyond disturbing. It really is profoundly disturbing. Anybody with any sense of decency is going to be repulsed by this trend. Here is just one reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man, it`s -- you know? They`ve got a fine -- look at that. That`s terrible. That`s somebody`s mother, somebody`s father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether it`s random or targeted, it`s sick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That brings me to my rant. We are turning into a culture of sadism. So many kids are not being raised with any sense of morality. They`re not taught right from wrong. They`re not molded to listen to their hearts.

The classic character Jiminy Cricket once said, "Let your conscious be your guide." Kids aren`t listening to Jiminy Cricket any more. They`re way too sophisticated. Instead, the knockout game reminds me of the classic novel "The Lord of the Flies," where kids are let loose on an island, and a sadistic and evil game ensues where the weakest boys are humiliated and tortured. It is "Lord of the Flies" out there, people.

And I want to toss it out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. Why have these kids lost -- or perhaps never even had in the first place -- their moral compass?

RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, it`s funny you say, "Let your conscience be your guide." Well, they don`t have a conscience. And you know where we get a conscience from? Parents. And too many parents are phoning it in these days.

And ultimately, these kids also know there`s not a lot of consequences to their actions. They`re so taken with the idea of being part of a new viral trend that they don`t even think about what`s going to happen. And I actually think we`re a little bit easy on adolescents in our legal system. So the fact is, they probably think, "I`m going to get away with this."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney out of D.C., when these kids are found, because some of them -- you can see this blurry surveillance video -- they haven`t been caught yet, but when they are found, they are in serious, serious legal trouble.

J. WYNDAL GORDON, ATTORNEY: Yes. They will face felony assault charges, depending on the degree of injury to the persons who they assaulted.

In addition to that, you know, just looking at these videos, I heard about this last week, and I didn`t even want to look at the video. And now that I`ve seen it, it sickens me. I`m very disturbed. And I hope that this does not -- this trend does not find -- fester throughout the entire country and world. But this is very disturbing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We want to stamp it out right now, tonight. First of all, we`re letting people know there`s a problem. Here`s the problem. And that`s the first step to a solution, is to admit that there`s a problem. There`s a problem, America, that kids think this is fun.

Straight out to the phone lines. Carol, Indiana, what do you got to say? Carol, Indiana.

CALLER: Hey, Jane. How you doing? Love the show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: You already know this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: Hey, Jane, I`ve got two comments to make. No. 1, I hope they don`t start this in Indiana. Because it`s going to be a whole lot of teenagers right on the streets. It starts me being one of the culprits. You know, whereas, I would have left my gun in the car. It`s going to be in my coat pocket. That`s the way I`m feeling. Because they`ve better knock me straight out, because I`m going to follow up with a couple of bullets in their butt and let their parents deal with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carol, Carol -- Carol, I want to step in for one second. You`ve made a very strong comment. And, see, this is the cycle of violence. And this is how violence escalates. And I do believe that we have an addiction to violence in this country and that we have to look in a mirror.

We have to look in the mirror. Do you go to violent movies? Do you watch violent TV shows? Are we into sadistic story lines? Because this is not coming out of nowhere, Siggy Flicker. I know you`re a mom, and Lisa is, too. We`ll start with Siggy.

FLICKER: OK. You`re absolutely right. I love everything you`re saying. It starts with what`s happening inside the house. Parents got to step up. It starts with Xbox, for example.

Let me just give you a small example. If your child is spending too much time playing Call of Duty, he shouldn`t be playing or she shouldn`t be playing Call of Duty. Take out the Xbox.

Know what your child is doing. Limit these violent games. At home, too. Find out who they`re -- they`re hanging out with. Take an action. Be part of your child`s life and don`t be afraid to put your foot down and say enough is enough. Enough is enough.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. We know that three people -- three innocent people have already been killed by this hideous game. It`s gone from assault to murder.

Forty-six-year-old Ralph Santiago killed in Hoboken, New Jersey, after he was hit. He was found with a broken neck and his head stuck between two iron fence spikes. Three of the alleged attackers were arrested after being caught on surveillance video. This is what scares me almost to death. They were just 13 and 14 years old.

You know, there`s a long list here. But Lisa Bloom, a couple of things. One, with that group thing, we know that teenagers like to travel in packs. And when they travel in packs, they become exponentially more brazen, having to prove to each other their manliness. So that is No. 1. I don`t think you`re seeing a lot of girls involved in this. This is something about what we`re teaching boys about what it means to be a man. And unfortunately, our culture is saying if you`re violent, you`re a man; you`re a real man.

BLOOM: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s the worst message.

BLOOM: Right. Too much machismo, too much violence. I write about that in my book about our parenting boys, which is called "Swagger."

Teenagers should not be roaming around in groups at night, by the way. Teenagers should be busy. That`s probably the most important thing I can tell parents of teenagers. A lot of people say the kids have over- structured lives, and some of them do. But for the most part, teenagers should be busy. They should be at school. They should be at home. They should be doing homework. They should be doing chores. They shouldn`t have time to roam around and get into trouble like this, because if it`s not this, it`s going to be something else. Let`s keep them busy until they`re at least 18 and out of school.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. I talked to somebody about the gang problem once, and he said that teenagers are essentially pack animals. They want to be in packs. If you give them a good pack, that`s like a team, being part of a band, that`s great. If you don`t give them that, they`ll join a bad pack, which is a gang or this kind of activity.

I think boys need to be exposed to art. They need to paint. They need to dance. They need to do all these things that somehow our culture is sending a message that, oh, that`s -- that`s not what boys should be doing. Nonsense.

You want to be as famous as some of these guys who appear -- my gosh. Who was sexiest man alive? Adam Levine. OK? Look at any number of these great performers. You think they didn`t take dance classes? You think they don`t know how to be an artist? The list escapes me but just any awards show.

This is what boys shouldn`t do. This is what boys need to learn is not being a man.

George Zimmerman, soon to be his ex-wife is calling him a ticking time bomb. A jaw-dropping interview that she conducted with Katie, and you`re going to hear what Shellie Zimmerman has to say and like a whole string of explosive drama-rama surrounding George Zimmerman. And now Shellie is saying this reflects on the death of an innocent, unarmed teen. We all know his name, Trayvon Martin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN, ESTRANGED WIFE OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I`ve been married to a person for almost seven years, and I don`t think I ever really knew him at all.

In my opinion he feels more invincible.

He`s making some reckless decisions, and I think George is all about George.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know this man. It`s George Zimmerman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He first made headlines for killing an unarmed teenager in 2012.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ARRESTED IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT: Every time he punched me in the nose, it felt like my head was going to explode.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find George Zimmerman not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your knees. Cross your feet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman told the 911 operator she was pushed out of her house by Zimmerman.

SAMANTHA SCHEIBE, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: He knows how to do this. He knows how to play this game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that he had a shotgun, an AR-15 and two handguns inside.

S. ZIMMERMAN: He`s making some reckless decisions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the most recent in a series of bizarre run- ins the 30-year-old has had with police.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news in our culture of violence. George Zimmerman`s estranged wife, Shellie, speaking out, painting a terrifying portrait of her soon-to-be-ex-husband, Neighborhood Watch shooter George Zimmerman. She`s confirming our worst fears about the man who killed Trayvon Martin.

Shellie Zimmerman talking to Katie Couric about her ex`s aggravated assault arrest just this week, saying George Zimmerman is a ticking time bomb. Shellie told Katie that the man she used to consider her best friend and a wonderful person is now behaving like a monster.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE COURIC, ABC NEWS: What happened to him?

S. ZIMMERMAN: I don`t know. I certainly hope that there are no casualties. I hope that there`s no violence. But he does seem like a ticking time bomb. I know I`m certainly afraid. I just hope that he can get maybe the help that he needs to deal with his situation and that no one else will be hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But right now as we speak, Zimmerman is out on bail. Charged with aggravated assault, battery and criminal mischief. He was arrested after his now-ex-girlfriend called 911 just this past Monday claiming George was pointing a gun at her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going on?

SCHEIBE: He`s in my housebreaking all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I asked him to leave. He has a freaking gun breaking all of my stuff right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ll hear what Shellie is now saying about Zimmerman`s acquittal in Trayvon Martin`s killing and the message she has for this dead teenager`s parents.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney out of D.C. Given everything that we`re hearing, given what Shellie is saying, do you think the judge made the wrong decision to let this guy out on $9,000 bail? And of course, he said you have to wear an electronic monitoring. But he said you can`t have a gun. But as we all know, in this culture if somebody wants a gun, they can find one.

GORDON: I`ve always thought that the judge made the -- a wrong decision by letting him out on bail. And you can take this case and compare it to the Marissa Alexander case down here in Florida, who`s waiting to go to trial, and she`s not even allowed to be out on bail. A $9,000 bail is an insult. Not only to the victim in this case, but to the public at large.

Florida doesn`t want to actually acknowledge that George Zimmerman is a menace, and there will be casualties if he not put behind bars. I think he`s suffering from that same thing that O.J. Simpson suffered from. Some -- some type of mass narcissism or something to that extent. But he has a problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or it could be guilt. Both of them are perceived to have gotten away with killing, and both of them have ended up in severe legal trouble. O.J. Simpson behind bars for armed robbery and this guy back in court first of the year. Who knows what`s going to happen to him. He could go to jail if he`s convicted for at least three years, possibly up to five years or more.

Now, his estranged wife, Shellie Zimmerman, talked to Katie about when she first suspected her husband was not the man she thought she married. Here`s another clip from Katie. It just came out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. ZIMMERMAN: I found out that he was lying about a lot of things. And he became like a pacing lion. Very unpredictable. Like every single day it was like adrenaline going through my body, constantly not knowing what it was going to be like from day-to-day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, is this too little too late? We all know that Shellie famously stood by her man during this murder trial that the entire world was watching.

And we also know that, on the night that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, he and Shellie had had a fight the night before. She wasn`t there that night, because she had been at her father`s house since the night before. She had essentially walked out on him.

Do you think that this is sort of an armchair quarterback Monday morning kind of thing, where she could have taken a more courageous stand during the trial?

BLOOM: Well, maybe. But she`s had quite a journey from not only standing by him but committing perjury for him and lying about some money that they had in their account to now coming out and saying that he`s a monster.

But a lot of women go through a journey like that when they`re with somebody who they consider as abusive. And she`s called him emotionally abusive. Let`s applaud her for coming out and speaking openly about him in the way that she is now and warning everybody about how dangerous he is.

I think clearly he is more dangerous. Thank goodness at least he`s been separated from his guns. And by the way, Jane, if he`s convicted of even a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, he cannot have a gun the rest of his life. That`s federal law. So even if he pleads to a misdemeanor which is how these cases usually turn out, He may be separated from guns forever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`re going to have to see. I mean, this is just getting started. He hasn`t even been formally arraigned. That was just his first court appearance the other day, and the judge said, "Yes, there`s probable cause to proceed."

But we have to see how this unfolds. Is there going to be a plea deal? Gee, I really hope that the prosecution handles it better than they did last time around.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Nancy, Massachusetts. Nancy, Massachusetts. What do you got to say?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. How are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fine, thanks.

CALLER: Good. I just think that we should take a preventive measure, lock him up before he kills someone. Had he done that when he got acquitted from that Trayvon Martin and he went after his wife the very first time, had they locked him up, we wouldn`t be hearing about him today. But we`re going to continue to hear about him just like the kid down in Bermuda [SIC] there that killed that Holloway girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joran Van Der Sloot, he...

CALLER: Who kills someone else that they did something.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he -- Joran Van Der Sloot certainly was not prosecuted. And of course, we never found out what happened to Natalee Holloway because her body was never found. But he did end up behind bars in Latin America for killing another girl.

All right. On the other side of the break, we`ve got more shocking comments by Shellie Zimmerman. And you`ve got to wonder, when did the light bulb go off? Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ZIMMERMAN (via phone); I never pulled a firearm. I never displayed it. When I was packing it, I`m sure she saw it. I mean, we keep it next to the bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is her weapon put up?

G. ZIMMERMAN: I have no idea. It`s hers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about your weapon?

G. ZIMMERMAN: It`s in a bag, locked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ZIMMERMAN; I was still in the phone with non-emergency, and I started walking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

G. ZIMMERMAN: And because I didn`t see a street sign here. But I knew if I walked straight through, that that street should be a Circle. And I should...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We all wondered as we watched Shellie Zimmerman in court every day of her husband`s murder trial, does she really think her husband, George, is innocent? So listen to this from "Katie."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURIC; I think when people hear of all these incidents following the trial, it does cast further doubt on his actions that night.

S. ZIMMERMAN: Sure.

COURIC: Do you feel that way?

S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

COURIC: Does it cast further doubt for you?

S. ZIMMERMAN: Further doubt, yes. Absolutely.

COURIC: But yet...

S. ZIMMERMAN: It casts a lot of doubt, like you said. Because like I`ve said, I don`t know the person that I`ve been married to, so of course, I`m going to have question and doubts, but I wasn`t there that night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. Shellie is divorcing George. In fact, while he was behind bars this week on this latest incident, she slapped him with divorce papers. So is it a little coincidence that now suddenly she`s calling him a monster and a ticking time bomb?

DURVASULA: The timing is not great. But the fact of the matter is, is that all of George Zimmerman`s behavior points to the fact that he may very well be a ticking time bomb.

And the fact is, the relationship she had with him probably was somewhat frightening. And we`ve got to remember, and as Lisa said, that you have to be careful. We don`t know what she went through. And a lot of women in her situation do hold back.

Now she may be feeling more empowered, because she is going through the divorce process, which is probably really hard for her. The timing not optimal, but the fact is, not only is he a ticking time bomb; he`s a time bomb that`s already gone off. So I think we`re going to see more from him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I really wish that the prosecution had made a point of saying in some way, shape or form that, hey, on the night that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, he had just had a fight with his wife. She had left him, was staying at her father`s house. And so obviously, he was upset. Because clearly, the guy has got a pattern. When he`s had a fight with a woman, he gets aggro.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Katrina, D.C., what you got to say? Katrina?

CALLER: How you doing? My name is Katrina Horel (ph), and I live in D.C. And I just -- I don`t understand how they`re giving this man a second chance to go out and harm somebody else.

Now we don`t put a gun in somebody`s face, but then this young guy that got killed. And we can`t even protect our kids, because the law is not on our side here.

I don`t understand what it`s going to take, for like 20 more kids to get killed and laid out on the street before somebody do something? I`m tired of not being able to go outside and be able to walk down the street. We have to worry about people carrying guns and using excuses for killing our children.

Where is our help at? Someone help us. Please. That`s what I have to say about it. Get some real people out there that really can...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Katrina. And I want to say, as we cover this story, Shellie also told Katie she feels horrible for the family of Trayvon Martin. She thinks about them every single day.

I say, yes, compare Zimmerman to a ticking time bomb. But don`t compare him to a pacing lion, because lions are innocent. And they do not act out of bad intentions.

Mount Chris Brown has erupted again. Ha ha. This time the target of his anger, his own mother. Yes, that`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to say, as we cover this story, Shelley also told Katie she feels horrible for the family of Trayvon Martin. She thinks about them every single day.

I say, yes, compare Zimmerman to a ticking time bomb. But don`t compare him to a pacing lion because lions are innocent. They do not act out of bad intentions.

Mount Chris Brown has erupted again. This time the target of his anger: his own mother. Yes, that`s next.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: You just become your own person. You want to be your own person. You don`t care what anybody thinks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that he`s still on probation for the incident with Rihanna.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To immediately enter rehab for three months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the buzz tonight, he`s not walking down a red carpet on the way to an award show or to perform his music, now he`s walking into court to face the music. Chris Brown`s bad behavior lands him back in rehab. A judge orders the R&B star to 90 days -- that`s three months, plus random drug testing and says he has to take some serious medication prescribed by his doctor and also complete a thousand hours of community service. After all this, Brown -- because he was kicked out of rehab a couple of weeks ago. And why was he kicked out, you ask? For another violent outburst.

The singer was booted after he allegedly threw a rock through his own mother`s car window, shattering it because she said she wanted him to stay in treatment. Now Chris Brown voluntarily had checked himself into rehab less than a month ago. He was, of course, arrested on an assault charge in D.C. after he allegedly punched somebody. His lawyer probably said, "Hey go to rehab to make things better with the judge."

But just about two weeks later, he left saying he would continue the program as an outpatient. Now we have the probation report that says that`s not what happened. He was kicked out for breaking the rules and acting violently.

So he`s still on probation for beating up his one-time girlfriend Rihanna. We all remember this horrific picture from 2009 from TMZ -- all right. Exhibit A, rage problem, anger management problem. Chris Brown has to stay out of trouble or his probation for beating up Rihanna will be revoked. He could end up behind bars, at least hypothetically. It never seems to happen to a superstar.

Straight out to Alicia Quarles E News correspondent -- we`re so delighted that you`re joining us tonight. Tell us about this whole thing with the rock throwing. What the heck?

ALICIA QUARLES, E NEWS CORRESPONDENT: "What the heck" is right, Jane. So Chris Brown was in this rehab facility and he was doing counseling sessions. His mother attended the session and said, lock, I really want Chris to stay in the facility to get the help that he needs for his anger issues. That`s when Chris reportedly ran outside, threw a rock through her car window, shattering the glass.

And he was kicked out of the facility because he signed a letter saying that he would not engage in any violence. He did just that. They kicked him out. And now his probation officers are reviewing everything, seeing if he should go back to jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say this. Of course he got another shot at 90 days in rehab. Listen, sift through the feelings this time Chris. You see Chris Brown and his mom went on "LARRY KING LIVE" back in 2009 after the Rihanna beatdown. And Chris Brown talked about the domestic violence he witnessed as a child going on in his house and that he saw this when he was seven years old. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Growing up in a domestic violence situation as far as my mom`s ex-husband and stuff like that. There`s times when I would be scared to go to bed. I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the elephant in the room. Of course, there he is with the mother, who he just threw a rock at allegedly. Of course, his mother`s appearance at the rehab center would trigger his rage. Ok, his mom shows up in family therapy. Her presence brings back the painful feelings from childhood when he was a little boy helplessly standing by while he says his stepfather beat his mom.

So he couldn`t sit through those feelings. And I want to go out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. That`s a potent combination of emotions. Guilt -- he couldn`t help his mother, he`s a little boy; resentment -- even though she was a victim, he still resents being exposed to that violence. There`s the rage -- how it has really polluted his adult life. So of course he`s going to get angry. Mom triggers the anger -- Ramani.

RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know this is a very complex set of emotions. You`re absolutely right Jane. But the fact of the matter is rehab is only going to work here if he`s motivated to want to change. Everybody who goes in to rehab goes in with complicated emotions. That`s likely what took them down the path of addiction in the first place.

And the fact of the matter is, is that everyone`s trying to say, well, he only gets angry when it`s fans and this and that. He`s going after his own mother. And he`s really kind of talking out both sides of his mouth.

I understand that he has a very complex path ahead of him. But until he starts having consequences, real consequences for his behavior and he really wants to make a change, this is not going to happen no matter how much he keeps putting on the face like he`s going to make this change.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Brown apologized on YouTube when he first got in trouble for beating up singer Rihanna. Listen to this. Do you remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What I did was unacceptable 100 percent. I can only ask and pray that you forgive me please. I hope that others learn from my mistake. I intend to live my life so the I`m truly worthy of the term "role model".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Siggy Flicker, social commentator. I`m an alcoholic with 18 years of sobriety. I`m going to tell you what the problem is with rage rehab. You can say I won`t drink again. I`m never going to have a drink again. You can say I won`t have a drug again. But that`s a substance you can avoid. With behavior issues like anger, it`s very hard because you can`t just eliminate the emotion entirely. It`s probably the hardest addiction to face.

SIGGY FLICKER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I do agree with you on that but, and there is a "but" here, Chris Brown needs to grow up. I mean come on. Stupidity is repeating the same mistakes over and over again and expecting different results.

You want me to feel bad for Chris Brown. What`s the matter? God didn`t bless you enough with good looks and talent? You`ve got that. God didn`t bless you enough to give you great sneakers and cars and health and happiness? Come on. You keep on doing the same things over. You know why because we the fans are screaming "We love you, Chris. Chris I want to have your baby." I want to have this.

You think you`re larger than life. Guess what -- you`re not. Just like I tell my kids, everybody -- there are no shortcuts. You have to walk a straight line. It`s time for you to take off your diapers -- ok -- stop going potty in your diapers.

Take off your diapers. Accept responsibilities. Grow up and stop it already -- ok. Stay in an anger management course. Don`t get angry and start throwing rocks and crying and bitching and moaning. Do it. Stay with the course and shape up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re incredibly talented, Chris Brown. I know what it`s like to be powerless over something. Surrender -- just for today. Don`t pick it up -- anger. I know it`s hard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for your Crazy Video of the Day. I want to warn you, this could be disturbing and scary for small kids.

I`m happy to say the woman in this video recovering in the hospital. Let`s show it. Here it is. A truck hits a motor bike. It turns into a fire ball burning the woman driving it -- amazing. Luckily others were there to help very fast. They quickly pulled off her pants to keep her from burning to death. Unbelievable stuff but this lady is ok. See her there? See her there. Oh my God. Thank God she`s all right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ride the wave to good health. Ho-ho-ho. We`re getting ready for the holidays. These are your traditional chocolate chip cookies. But these are a healthy alternative.

And we`re here with nutritionist Keri Glassman, the star of Upwave. How do we make these puppies because these are delish?

KERI GLASSMAN, NUTRITIONIST, UPWAVE: Jane, I just made, you know, a big confession to you that chocolate chip cookies are my all time favorite food in the world. I could never give up, nor would I try to ever give up chocolate chip cookies. But I do have a healthier way of making them.

I put out two different flours -- we have regular flour and then we have spelt flour. Spelt is an ancient grain. So it`s got more fiber in it, more vitamins and minerals. But I still use a little bit of regular flour so the consistency of the cookie holds. And then we have flaxseed. We know flaxseed is a way to get in a little bit of those Omega-3s and more fiber. And then, of course, you need a little bit of baking soda and then we have some salt.

One of my absolute favorite ingredients in the world -- what do you think this is -- coconut butter. Coconut butter is one of my favorite things to use in food and also on top of your skin, by the way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it. Heart healthy coconut.

GLASSMAN: And these are actually carob chips so they`re great if you`re a vegan. I thought of you Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

GLASSMAN: I wanted to make sure we could make chocolate cookies if you like. But of course, you can use whatever chips you want.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So before we get to this, we have to mix it up.

GLASSMAN: Ok. This is the fun part. I`m throwing in the flax. I`m throwing in the baking soda, the salt, and I`m going to mix up the dry ingredients here. Mix this up -- ok. And then over here I`m going to pour the almond milk in, the vanilla extract, the sugar and a little brown sugar here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can I throw in the carob chips?

GLASSMAN: You get to throw in the chips.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Boom. I can`t wait. Hurry up. Hurry up. I want those cookies.

GLASSMAN: I usually scoop and then scoop into my hand, which I make sure are always cleaned, of course and then roll them a little bit to make these perfect little round shapes here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

GLASSMAN: You have to scoop right onto the tray here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There we go. I like it.

GLASSMAN: Ok. So we`re going to take these bad boys and put them in the oven -- 375 for 12 to 15 minutes, and we`ll have some nice, warm, chocolate chips, healthy and delicious cookies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just 12 to 15 minutes and then we get to eat cookies? All right. We have the moment of truth. And now we`re going to taste the healthy cookies for the holidays. Can I dig in?

GLASSMAN: I want to dig in. Let`s dig in. And you have to remember that these are still caloric. There is still sugar in here. It`s still supposed to be an indulgence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are so good. They`re so delicious, and they`ve got that little coconut flavor.

So you have a little coconut going on here. These are brilliant.

You have to watch "UPWAVE", coming to HLN December 1st -- "UPWAVE". Get ready for the holidays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.

Georgia -- oh my gosh, you`ve been reading too much. Your eyes are going to go bad. Pickles, Bob and Toby -- wow, what a trio. You`re going to get into trouble today. Who says animals from different species can`t get along? Joey -- Joey says "I`m simple but classic and I like to have fun. Let`s hang." Oh The Gang -- oh my gosh. This is chihuahua heaven with a little mix thrown in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you do, do not make a sound.

You`ve been recruited for a top secret mission.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you talking about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going back in time to the first Thanksgiving to get turkeys off the menu.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you talking to?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy right here, he totally gets it. See how he`s nodding?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey little Rico, welcome back, you`re doing great after your surgery. That was the hit new movie "Free Birds". It is the new family movie everybody`s talking about this holiday season. It`s about a couple of turkeys who go back in time to -- you guessed it -- take turkey off the Thanksgiving menu.

About 45 million turkeys are killed for Thanksgiving every year in the United States. This is some footage that shows you how they are killed. And it`s not a pretty thing to look at. We`re going to get off of this soon but it`s important to see the reality, frankly people.

Now with the help of this brand new movie that`s such a hit, really a lot of people are talking about it, let`s take turkey off the table. And the best part, there are so many fantastic alternatives, you won`t even know the turkey is missing.

Tonight we`re going to see some real life free birds, these turkeys who could have ended up on your dinner table but they were rescued by an amazing organization called the Catskill Animal Sanctuary. Catskill Animal Sanctuary rescued 28 turkeys from the slaughterhouse, after they heard that more than 100 turkeys living on Staten Island were also scheduled to be taken to slaughter. There they are at the Catskill Animal Sanctuary, having a nice time. Consider the alternative.

I have to say, want to go out to Kathy Stevens, founder and director of Catskill Animal Sanctuary, and author of the amazing new book, "Animal Camp". Why is it so important to think about turkeys and other animals this holiday season?

KATHY STEVENS, FOUNDER/DIRECTOR OF CATSKILL ANIMAL SANCTUARY: Hi, Jane, well, there`s so many reasons. Turkeys obviously want their lives every bit as much as we want ours, number one. Number two we are getting sick and fat from eating not only animal products period, but genetically- altered animals that are filled with toxins and antibiotics. So there`s a human health component. And three, we`re taking this earth to the point where there`s not going to be any return. There are three very compelling reasons not to eat animals. There`s no reason to slaughter 45 birds to celebrate a holiday.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it`s a dichotomy. We`re celebrating our happiness, and yet some people feel that it`s absolutely essential to have a dead animal on the table in order to celebrate that. What you and I and many millions of people now in our movement of compassionate animals say, you know what, it`s better for your health, we have great recipes that are turkey free that have all the fixings and are absolutely delicious. And there`s no need, because this is an environmental wreckage, people are suffering from an obesity crisis, this is contributing to high cholesterol, there`s so many reasons. Do you feel the world`s changing?

STEVENS: I can`t believe how much the world is changing. Look, it`s hard to go for a week without seeing a headline on the news or in the "New York Times" or on a blog. Even tours on the weekends, the Catskill Animal Sanctuary people are asking very different kinds of questions. I went to Barnes and Noble a couple weeks ago, there was an entire column of book shelves, like six or eight shelves of vegetarian and vegan cookbooks. I think the statistic is something like --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to talk about your turkey Henrietta on the other side -- and her boyfriend. Stay right there.

STEVENS: All right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kathy, tell us about Henrietta.

STEVENS: Well Henrietta came from a local poultry farm. She was with us for a couple years. She`s just a remarkable bird -- affectionate, had many multispecies friendships. She`s quite a girl. Not at all what people think of when they think of birds.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, they have personalities. I actually attended a dinner party where turkeys participated. They laugh when we laugh. And I understand Henrietta has a boyfriend. Congrats.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy is next.

END