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Ehud Barak Reflects on Nelson Mandela's Legacy, Talks Iran; Ice Storm Turns Deadly; Obama Knows Uncle Involved in Deportation Case
Aired December 06, 2013 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: People around the world are mourning the death and they're celebrating the life of the former South African President Nelson Mandela. Tributes have been pouring in from leaders, heads of state since the news of Mandela's death came yesterday. For many, Mandela's life could provide important lessons for other leaders.
The former Israeli prime minister, former Israeli defense minister, Ehud Barak, is certainly reflecting on Mandela's legacy. Ehud Barack is here with us right now.
Thank you, Prime Minister, Defense Minister, for joining us. I'll just call you minister.
You had a chance to meet with Nelson Mandela when he came to Israel. I want your thoughts right now. He didn't hide his criticism of Israel. He thought you were making major mistakes as far as the Palestinians were concerned.
EHUD BARAK, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER & DEFENSE MINISTER: I was a young prime minister. He came, I hosted him in Jerusalem. He was only there physically, somewhat fragile, but radiating with a spiritual energy and kind of a contagious optimism. Of course, he tried to convince us that we should do more.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: He wanted to broaden the '67 lines, two states, Israel and Palestine.
BARAK: He had very clear ideas. I tried to convince him somehow Fattah is not of the same character in terms in greatness and a much more kind of narrow, narrow fixated kind of character. But he, you know, he supported the idea. He felt that there are certain similarities, however remote, with that situation and tried very hard to convince us that nothing which seems now to be an obstacle should not be taken as an insurmountable because when there is a will, we can overcome everything. And I remember for me this kind of great humanity kind of moral --
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BLITZER: Well, did he impact your thinking? BARAK: We were in a very kind of optimistic corner at the time. We tried our best. He cannot tell us to do more because we --
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Bill Clinton was still president. You were in the midst of negotiations.
BARAK: Yeah.
BLITZER: And you were close with Arafat to getting a deal at that time.
BARAK: Yeah, we were in a way close, but the gaps, you know, it cannot be measured only by the width but only by the depth. It was very narrow but very deep.
BLITZER: What did you think Nelson Mandela?
BARAK: Nelson Mandela is one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century. He left imprints on hundreds of millions, not just on his own people, and changed history as a result of being consistent, determined, in a way, a benign zealot. He was zealot for his case but a great kind of mind and open minded, could carry the burden of not just the responsibility to lead but also responsibility to be self- disciplined once he won.
BLITZER: The secretary of state, John Kerry, has been meeting with the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel, and he says that Nelson Mandela should be sort of an indicator to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, in coming to an agreement. Maybe he could influence you. Are you any closer at all right now, based on Secretary Kerry's involvement in trying to get an Israeli/Palestinian agreement? Do you feel there is any progress happening?
BARAK: I think that penetrating the media, with your permission, it's not easy for leaders from both sides to move forward because the moment they start to move forward, they risk their power base behind, because the media penetrates and pushes everything to the surface long before they have an agreement or even know whether they will have one. So it makes it complicated for them. So I think that the determination of Kerry, to an extent, what is called an obsession is something positive. Both sides should hear from the world a clear signal that the world is interested in finding a way without giving up our security issues, without giving up their hopes, the Palestinian hopes to find a way to solve, to move forward into full agreement if it's possible, into agreement with a clear destination for the future and clear commitment of both sides to solve the whole issue that is critical for the Middle East.
BLITZER: Did president Obama do the right thing by entering into this interim agreement with Iran on its nuclear program?
BARAK: On one hand, the Iranians were stopped temporarily and for several months, if they will really transform the 200 kilograms of 20 percent backward, reprocessed into non-dangerous materials, and if they stop the activities in the heavy water reactor in Iraq. So that's clear. But the very structure of two stages make it the burden of proof delayed for six months.
BLITZER: But it's worth a chance, right? It's better than going to war.
BARAK: I don't know. It's too early to pass a judgment. The real challenge is that Iran remains very close. And the Iranians might try to manipulate the Americans or the West of the P5-plus-1.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: What's the bottom line? Did the president do the right thing?
BARAK: The president probably didn't have a choice but to negotiate with the Iranians, but the real test will come. It's waiting for the rest of the world. If Iran is not blocked from turning into military nuclear power, we will all regret it because the consequences are far -- much more dangerous than those that might stem out even from a direct physical attack on the infrastructure if nothing else would work.
I think what's missing from the picture right now is that the Iranians will hear beyond closed doors and a clear and irrevocable American message, we don't -- we are not going to humiliate you or embarrass you in public, but you have to understand we mean business. If you would prefer to Soviet negotiation, but if you're compelled to, we will deal with it another way.
BLITZER: The president says all options are on the table, including the military option.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: He says Iran will not get a nuclear bomb.
BARAK: Believe me, Wolf, I don't mean to discuss what's said in public. That's less important. What's really important is what the Iranians will hear behind closed doors. If they won't hear the message I've just mentioned, no way that Khomeini will give us his intention to --
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BLITZER: We're out of time, but are you suggesting that what the president says publicly is not what they're saying privately to the Iranians?
BARAK: No, I think there is a need to tell them privately much more clear and blunt way what awaits them if they will not do it. In public, you have to respect their interests, their internal struggling with their own extremes and so on. So you have to say things which show them being fully explicit. I think that we -- a major test waits for us in the future. It might end up being a major mistake if we won't end up in six months with an Iranian nuclear military program being technically or physically, meaningfully blocked.
BLITZER: Let's hope in six months there is an agreement and that it works out and that there's no military action needed. You're a general and you would prefer a peaceful solution.
BARAK: Let's hope.
BLITZER: You sound skeptical but --
BARAK: I am skeptical because that's exactly what the North Korean and the Pakistanis have done. They waited until it turned from being an issue of no to a nuclear military Iran into no to a nuclear military Iran during certain term of certain presidents.
BLITZER: Ehud Barak, thanks very much for coming in.
BARAK: Thank you.
BLITZER: Coming up, a fierce ice storm hits about a dozen states and one major metropolis is brought to its knees. That story and more when we come back.
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BLITZER: The ice storm that's hitting much of the country has now turned deadly. One man in Arkansas was killed by a falling tree, and weather-related accidents have claimed two lives in Oklahoma and one in Texas. This is the scene in Dallas right now. The city is buried a thick coat of ice. Here's a look at the frozen tower cam there. A huge city that's been paralyzed by a brutal storm.
Our Alina Machado is in Dallas right now.
Are people staying off the streets?
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it appears people are staying home. This is downtown Dallas. It would typically be packed with people. There would be a lot more traffic than you're seeing right now on the highway. As you can see, it's a bit of a ghost town. Even the sleet is gone for now, the freezing rain is gone, there is a very significant coating of ice all over Dallas. This chair, for example, I want to show you, has been here with me all morning. It is covered in ice. And just look at that. That's what we're talking about here, a lot of ice here in this part of Texas.
We have learned of one weather-related death in Hockley County (ph). This happened yesterday morning. And basically, authorities tell us an SUV lost control of its -- a driver lost control of his SUV, slammed into another car and killed a passenger in that car.
These roads are slick. They're going to be slick, Wolf, for quite some time, especially because the temperature feels like it's dropping
BLITZER: So are there going to be a bunch of canceled events in Dallas this weekend? MACHADO: We know of at least one. There was supposed to be tomorrow an annual and you holiday parade. This happens every year. It was supposed to be the 26th year. They've canceled that. We know the Dallas Marathon is on Sunday. We still haven't heard what will happen with that. But no doubt, people should be staying home because it is treacherous out here. The roads are slick. I'm not thinking it's going to get better for a while.
BLITZER: Alina Machado in Dallas, where it's very close and icy. We'll stay in close touch.
Alina, thanks very much.
The White House had said President Obama had never met with an uncle caught up in a deportation case, but it turns out that the president did meet briefly with an uncle, actually lived with him when he was a young guy. Find out how the press secretary at the White House is explaining this apparent contradiction. Brian Todd is standing by.
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BLITZER: Want to show you some live pictures coming in from South Africa. Crowds celebrating the life of Nelson Mandela. On the left, Johannesburg, on the right, Soweto. People are remembering and celebrating his great, great life. Much more on Nelson Mandela and his legacy coming up here on CNN.
But there's other news we're following, including the White House is now trying to clarify some apparently conflicting accounts of President Obama's relationship with a Kenyan uncle. The uncle has been at the center of a deportation case for years. Initially, the administration said President Obama never met with the uncle, seen here during an unrelated court appearance. But now, it turns out he briefly lived with the uncle many years ago.
Brian Todd has been looking into the story for us.
Explain this contradiction. What's going on?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The contradiction is explained by the White House, Wolf, saying -- they're saying there almost was no contradiction. They said now, when they said before that there was no record of president Obama meeting his uncle that there really was no written record, not even in the president's book of him meeting his uncle. But now they're saying that not only did he meet him, but he stayed with him for a brief period of time in the '80s when the president's apartment was being readied for him in Cambridge, Massachusetts. This came about because of a court case this week where the uncle said that he stayed with him. The problem was, in 2012, the White House said that -- "The Boston Globe" cited the White House as saying they had never met.
Now, this is what Jay Carney said yesterday about all this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: When Omar Obama said the other day, and there were reports that he had said the other day that president Obama, back when he was a law school student had stayed with him in Cambridge, I thought it was the right thing to do to go ask him. Nobody had asked him in the past. And the president said he, in fact, had met Omar Obama when he moved to Cambridge for law school, and he stayed with him for a brief period of time until his, the president's apartment was ready.
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TODD: So that's what Jay Carney says. The only real difference here was that he, Jay Carney, physically asked the president face-to-face, whether he met with the uncle, and that was the difference. The president said, yes, I met with him and stayed with him for three weeks.
I spoke with the attorney for the uncle. The uncle's name is Anyoungo Obama (ph). The attorney says that no only did he stay with him for three weeks but the uncle threw a congratulatory party for Barack Obama when he graduated from Harvard Law School. So that's where they're trying to iron out some of the contradictions.
BLITZER: The uncle came as a student to the United States.
TODD: That's right.
BLITZER: Was about to be deported. But, what, for 50 years --
TODD: Yeah.
BLITZER: -- there was this case going on, and only in the last few days has he been told he can stay in the United States legally.
TODD: Right. He had ignored the immigration proceedings against him for decades. And after he was arrested on a drunk-driving charge in 2011, some of the deportation proceedings started. He was under pressure to be deported. But this week, a judge said it was OK for him to stay in the United States. So, really, it's what he said in court, in the court proceedings this week about president Obama staying with him for three weeks, that's kind of why the White House felt to need to come out and clarify this yesterday.
BLITZER: So the uncle is going to stay in the United States.
TODD: That's right.
BLITZER: Obviously, he's lived here for 50 years.
TODD: 50 years.
BLITZER: But he's finally got legal status.
TODD: He does. He has legal status. He's going to get a green card. He will stay here. BLITZER: Do we know if there's a relationship at all between the president and this uncle? Have they been in touch? Do they talk on the phone? Do they have any meetings or anything?
TODD: There seems to not be any relationship. Jay Carney said yesterday that they fell out of touch and that they haven't really spoken. The attorney didn't really indicate one way or the other. I asked her. She didn't really want to go there. But there seems to be no contact between the two.
BLITZER: Maybe they'll reconnect now that he's allowed to stay.
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BLITZER: The courts have ruled he can stay in the United States. He's a legal resident.
TODD: Right.
BLITZER: Maybe they'll reunite.
TODD: Hopefully.
BLITZER: He was nice enough to let a young Barack Obama spend three weeks in his apartment.
(LAUGHTER)
TODD: And threw a party for him, apparently.
BLITZER: That was very nice.
All right, thanks very much.
TODD: Sure.
BLITZER: Brian will continue working the story for us in "The Situation Room."
Another story we're following, getting word of a major deal in Major League Baseball. According to several reports right now, the free agent, Robinson Cano, and the Seattle Mariners have agreed on a 10- year, $240 million contract. $240 million. The deal came just hours after talks between Cano, his representative, Jay-Z, and the Mariners had reportedly broken down. According to SportsIillustrated.com, the Yankees made Cano an offer of seven years, $170 million to stay in New York. Not enough.
That's it for me. I'll be back in "THE SITUATION ROOM," 5:00 p.m. eastern.
NEWSROOM continues right after a short break, with Brooke Baldwin.
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