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House Budget Deal; Interpreter's Defense; Texas Teen Gets Rehab; Former Cop Cleared

Aired December 12, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with me on this Thursday.

Let me tell you, it's a big day for Washington and a big day potentially for folks all around the country who are flat-out sick and tired of this partisan food fighting here. You have the U.S. House of Representatives -- ta-da -- will soon vote on a long-term budget. No government shutdown, no crisis talks at the White House, no temporary fix concocted on the fly. No, no. I'm talking today about a real live budget. Very adult of everyone, wouldn't you say?

That said, we do have some drama breaking out. This is among Republicans. House Speaker John Boehner, remember this moment yesterday? Boehner telling off fellow conservatives, in particular, conservative lobbying groups, saying some of his own people are trying to kill this budget without even seeing what's in it.

So let's hold it right there and bring in CNN's Dana Bash, because, Dana, you have talked to Speaker Boehner today, correct? I mean is he singing the same tune, holding his ground, as it were?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He doubled down, Brooke, big time, and it was at a press conference earlier today with me and other reporters. He went off again on these conservative groups and explained more why he was doing so. Listen to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Mr. Speaker, you were pretty tough on outside conservative groups for their criticism of the budget deal. As you well know, I mean just to be candid, they've had a lot of sway in a lot of the decisions that your members have made over the past couple of years. Does this budget mark a turning point and are your members at your behest going to be more focused on maybe compromise and less on what the outside groups are pressuring them to do?

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, listen, I take my fair share of criticism from the right and from the left. You know, I came here to fight for a smaller, less costly, more accountable federal government. And this budget agreement takes giant steps in the right direction. It's not everything I wanted. But when groups come out and criticize an agreement that they've never seen, you begin to wonder just how credible those actions are. Yes, it's not everything we wanted, but our job is to find enough common ground to move the ball down the field on behalf of the American people who sent us here to do their work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And, Brooke, he also said that they are misleading their followers and even went back to the shutdown and noted the fact that it was these groups in part that pushed his rank and file to want to tie the Obamacare defunding to funding the government, which led to the shutdown, which he admitted that he didn't want to do from the get go. Very, very interesting that he decided that this is the moment that he would kind of go unplugged with regard to these groups, which have been making his life pretty difficult as a leader here.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: One last thing. I just spoke to a representative from one of the groups, Heritage Action, just before coming on with you. They're not backing down. They are - they say that they're a little bit perplexed because they feel that they have genuine policy differences, but a lot of Republicans here on Capitol Hill, who are aligned with the leadership, say that they -- you know, this is a long time coming because there are a lot of different factors at play here, politics, money, and pressure.

BALDWIN: Right. Well, you know, and hearing Speaker Boehner there as well, you know, he said, listen, this is not everything we wanted. And so, by the way, I'm reading it from my perch here in New York. I know all the action's where you are in Washington. This is sort of a classic compromise.

Let me just run through some of what both sides wanted and didn't necessarily get. So first you have Republicans wanted but not getting this newer, simpler tax code, set at lower rates. They aren't getting Social Security reform. They're not getting Medicare reform.

And then you have on the flipside, Democrats. Democrats failed to get a tax increase on the wealthy. They're not getting another extension of unemployment aid. So obvious question, but I have to ask it, I mean, do they have the votes to pass this thing today in the House and then presumably, you know, shortly down the road in the Senate?

BASH: That's a very important question, Brooke. We expect the vote later today in the House. You know, I was talking to a Republican member who is against this, a conservative who is against this and will vote no, who told me he was surprised at how many of his colleagues were privately telling him that they were going to vote no. He thought there would be more Republicans who would be in the yes column.

Look, It's unclear exactly at the end of the day what the final vote count will be, but the presumption among Republican leaders and Democrat leaders is that there will be enough of both parties to put this bill over the edge. And it sort of brings us back to where you started this segment, which is, that's something that we -- not something that we hear very often these days.

BALDWIN: No. BASH: And we haven't heard for a long time, bipartisan push among leaders in both parties to sort of say to the extremes of each party, we know this isn't what you want, but we have to start somewhere, and this is a compromise.

BALDWIN: We'll watch for the vote at some point today. Dana Bash for us on Capitol Hill. Dana, appreciate it.

He says he is a champion of sign language. Others say he is just a downright fraud. Thamsanqa Jantjie, the interpreter on the world stage at the Nelson Mandela memorial, telling his side of the story to CNN. And you know what, he is defending his ridiculed performance saying he's schizophrenic but qualified.

Now, let me be clear, CNN has not confirmed that diagnosis, but he has reportedly told other media outlets that he was hearing voices in his head and hallucinating as he was up there signing.

Now, an equally bizarre statement from an official in South Africa admitting that mistakes did happen, but defends this interpreter, saying there is no sign language standard in that country.

Joining me now, David McKenzie, who is the one who interviewed this man.

And, David, how is he defending himself?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's defiant, Brooke. He says he did a good job. As you say, he used those words, he was a champion of the event those several hours you saw him standing next to some of the world's most prominent leaders, including President Barack Obama, signing away. He looked particularly confident to those of us who maybe don't understand sign language, particularly here in South Africa.

But right away people started complaining, saying that he was talking rubbish. That none of it made sense. So the obvious question I put to him was, could you sign something for me? Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: Can you show me some of the signs?

THAMSANQA JANTJIE, SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETER AT MEMORIAL: (INAUDIBLE) what do you want me to -

MCKENZIE: Well, because I don't know sign language.

JANTJIE: You - you (INAUDIBLE) yourself that people that I was interpreted for them through all these years. They say I'm not -- I'm like - I'm speaking rubbish.

MCKENZIE: Right.

JANTJIE: But if I was speaking rubbish, and then there was nothing that had been done, and then it's only now when something has been done, and then I must again make another sign. So you want to me what -- you want me to call - media (INAUDIBLE) you want me to call me what?

MCKENZIE: No, I'm just asking if you can show me some of the signs.

JANTJIE: (INAUDIBLE) let's be realistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow.

MCKENZIE: Well, certainly he wouldn't show me the signs, of course, Brooke, but he did say that he's been doing this for several years, and that is actually true. We dug up old footage. He was doing this for President Zuma of South Africa some years ago. He said that no one has ever complained about his performance in that clip there, but in fact they have. Several years ago they did.

So the question is, how did he end up in this stage, in such a prominent place, basically signing nothing to an audience in South Africa where this was probably the most important event in this country for several years, if not decades.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. I mean talk about being on the world stage and, of course, someone's going to notice. The other important question, David McKenzie, is the fact that he is mere feet from world leaders, the president of the United States. I mean we talk so much about security in this country. Do we know, was he vetted?

MCKENZIE: Well, they say he was vetted. They say the government - that any one part of the service, and this is a quote, had appropriate security clearance. So they went through the right security channels. It's not as if they just walked in.

Well, that probably is true in this case because he has been part of the entourage of signing with world leaders or at least South African leaders for some time. The question is, again, why did it take so long to call him out?

Now, we went to the company which supposedly contracted him for this big job and they say they know nothing about him. And so there might be something else going on here relating to cash. We don't know. But he's saying that though he's schizophrenic, this did not impact on his work. But everyone who understands sign language here in South Africa says he was making no sense at all.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Something is not adding up here. David McKenzie, thank you so much.

Coming up next hour, we'll talk live to a former Secret Service agent. We're pushing this forward. You know, how could someone, with this mental illness, get so close to these world leaders, i.e. Barack Obama, what kind of security checks could have been done, could have been done. That's coming up next hour here on CNN.

Now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm back to week one. OK. We have accomplished nothing here. This -- my healing process is out the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This man's wife and daughter were killed because this teenager drove drunk. But this teen won't be serving any time. Why? Because he is rich and spoiled. You have to stick around to hear this defense. This is absolutely outrageous.

Plus, a stunning twist in the case of a police officer convicted of shooting a man after Hurricane Katrina. Find out why he is suddenly walking free. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to a sentence in Texas court that -- not may, it will stun you, as much as it stunned the families of four people killed by a drunken teenage driver six months ago. Have you ever heard of the affluenza disease? Affluenza. This is apparently when you are a victim of your family's wealth. And there are no consequences for bad behavior. That is what the defense for this 16-year-old teenager used after he drunkenly plowed into four people on the side of a road and killed them. And a judge OKed it. Now the teen, who had faced up to 20 years in jail, will not be going to jail at all. Let's begin with CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He got drunk, then jumped behind the wheel of his pickup truck and plowed down four people in a drunken haze. So why isn't Ethan Couch behind bars? Keep in mind, he's just 16. Too young to legally drive with any alcohol in his system. And in this case, his blood alcohol measured 0.24, three times the legal limit in Texas. Eric Boyle's wife and daughter were both killed.

ERIC BOYLE, WIFE AND DAUGHTER KILLED IN CRASH: We had over 180 years of life taken. Future life, not 180 years lived, but 180 years of future life taken. And two of those were my wife and daughter.

KAYE: Investigators say surveillance tape shows Couch and his friends stealing beer from a Walmart store in June. Then they got drunk at a party. Leaving there, police say Couch gunned his pickup, going nearly 70 miles per hour in a 40. Just about 400 yards down the street, he slammed into Hollie and Shelby Boyles, who had stopped to help Brianna Mitchell fix a flat tire. Youth Pastor Brian Jennings was driving by and had also stopped to help. All of them were killed.

Ethan Couch was charged with four counts of intoxication manslaughter and tried as a juvenile. KAYE (on camera): In one of the most bizarre defense strategies we've ever heard of, attorneys for Couch blamed the boy's parents for his behavior that night, all because of how they raised him. A psychologist and defense witness testified that the boy suffered from something called affluenza, a lifestyle where wealth brought privilege and there were no consequences for bad behavior. He cited one example where Couch, then 15, was caught in a parked pickup with a naked 14- year-old girl who was passed out. Couch was never punished according to the psychologist. He also testified that Couch was allowed to start drinking at a very early age, even drive when he was just 13.

KAYE (voice-over): Prosecutors fought for a 20-year sentence, but the defense argued Couch needed treatment, not prison. The judge agreed and gave Couch 10 years' probation plus time in alcohol rehab. No prison. She told the court she believes Couch can be rehabilitated if he's away from his family and given the right treatment. He'll likely end up at this pricey rehab center in Newport Beach, California. His father has agreed to pay the half a million dollars or so that it will cost.

SCOTT BROWN, ETHAN COUCH'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Taking him away from his family and teaching him to be a responsible citizen, that's a consequence.

KAYE: A consequence? For killing four people? Not even close says this woman, whose daughter, Brianna Mitchell, died in the crash.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He'll be feeling the hand of God, definitely. He may think he's gotten away with something, but he hasn't gotten away with anything.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Affluenza. You know these ladies, Sunny Hostin, former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, and HLN host Jane Velez- Mitchell.

So, let's begin with you, because you have seen many a case in your day, Sunny Hostin, affluenza, have you ever heard of this?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I've never heard of it. It doesn't really exist. I mean this psychologist that testified in the court did say that he's coined the term and that he's been using it for quite some time. Remember, he's a psychologist and not a medical doctor. He's not a psychiatrist.

But I think what is so fascinating about it is that we, in the legal community, have often said that there's this disparity between wealthy kids, and people in general, and poor people. And you see that play out in the system.

Well, now we have a name for it. Someone has actually coined it -

BALDWIN: Put a label to this. HOSTIN: Put a label to it calling it affluenza.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HOSTIN: But I think what's so sad about this case, and I think Jane will agree, is that this kid now has no consequences for his action. So it's actually not only a disservice to the child, it's a disservice to our communities because we're saying, if you have enough money, you can get away with murder. There are no consequences to your actions. And that flies against everything that I believe in, in the judicial system, and it's not what the judicial system is supposed to stand for.

BALDWIN: And this may be the first time we've heard this label, but you say this happens time and time again.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN'S "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": The entire criminal justice system has affluenza, and this case is bringing this dirty little secret to the surface. We have a prison industrial complex in this country that is replete with institutionalized racism and classism and we have to do something about it. I see this time and time again, when I've gone in to cover celebrity cases, and I get there a little early and I see people sent away for years with boom, boom, boom, and then the celebrity comes in and everything's drawn out.

BALDWIN: Great lawyers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Great lawyers and money. Our justice system is supposed to be blind, but it has 20/20 vision.

BALDWIN: Let me just flip it - let me just flip it around though and say, have you ever heard of a reverse defense, where it would be a poverty defense, where someone has never had a family, isn't taught consequences for a much different reason?

HOSTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean that's used oftentimes by defense attorneys during sentencing hearings and they say, look, this kid or this young adult has had such a dysfunctional upbringing that they can't be responsible for their actions.

BALDWIN: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, though -

HOSTIN: I've never seen it really work.

BALDWIN: OK, that's what -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come on, if this was a poor minority kid doing the exact same thing -

BALDWIN: OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doing the exact same thing, he'd be going to the slammer. He'd be doing hard time. I liken it to a plane. Take our criminal justice system and make it a plane.

BALDWIN: OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those in first class go to rehab. Those in coach go to prison.

BALDWIN: Let me play some sound because this just, I think, really hits it home. Anderson talked to this man who lost not only his daughter but his wife as part of this whole accident. This is what he told him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AC360": The defense attorney said, and I quote, there is nothing the judge could have done to lessen the suffering for any of those families. That's just not true.

ERIC BOYLES, WIFE AND DAUGHTER KILLED IN CRASH: That -- and here's - and here's why I disagree. For 25 weeks I've been going through a healing process. And so when the verdict came out, I mean, my immediate reaction is, I'm back to week one. OK, we have accomplished nothing here. This -- my healing process is out the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How can you not grieve for this man who lost two people so, so close to him? What about, though, if we're talking money and power and how oftentimes in our justice system it prevails, what are grounds for an appeal?

HOSTIN: Well, I've been, I think, the only legal analyst that has said, I believe the prosecution in this case can challenge the sentence. Now in Texas you -- and in other jurisdictions, you can challenge a sentence if it's illegal and sometimes part of that is you challenge because it's excessive or you challenge because it's too lenient. I know that I don't have a lot of support in the legal community, but I hope, I hope that the government, the prosecutors, are watching CNN and other outlets that are covering it and have the courage to stand up and challenge the sentence and say this is too lenient. This is an inappropriate, borderline illegal sentence. And I think it could be successful.

BALDWIN: Last word.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think these victims will not have died in vein if we use this tragedy as an opportunity to examine our criminal justice system. There are organizations like FAMM, Families Against Mandatory Minimums, who have case after case of people who have done nothing and have been sentenced to decades for non-violent drug offenses. We have to realize that we're not being equitable and we're not being fair, and this is a travesty. It's moral degeneracy in our country that we're saying that there are some people who count and there are some people who just don't count.

BALDWIN: Jane Velez-Mitchell, watch her every night, HLN, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, Sunny Hostin, thank you, thank you, thank you, to both of you.

Coming up here, the police officer convicted of shooting a man after Hurricane Katrina has just been acquitted. You will hear why.

Plus, any moment, a vote is going down on whether you can use your cell phone on a plane. You want that? We'll talk about it, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Want you to see this emotional scene. You will see, outside of a court in New Orleans, where just yesterday a jury acquitted a former policeman of murder for the death of a man in the chaos of Hurricane Katrina. Here is the dead man's mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He killed my son. He killed my baby. That was my baby. Henry Glover was my baby. He killed him and got away. It's wrong. It's wrong!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Victor Blackwell joining me now live from Atlanta.

And, Victor, this policeman, a man by the name of David Warren, found guilty of murder several years back. His conviction tossed out. He is acquitted on retrial. But I guess it's not a surprise that the family of Henry Glover is so upset, looking at that mother.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They believe that a murderer walked free.

We've got to go back to 2005, Brooke, to the days after Hurricane Katrina. Officer David Glover with the New Orleans Police Department, he is -- I'm sorry, David Warren with the New Orleans Police Department. He's outside of a police facility, but it's on the second level of a strip mall. So he's above ground and he sees 31-year-old Henry Glover walking toward he says the stairs that lead up to the balcony and his thought is, if Glover makes it up those stairs he is dead. So the officer shoots and killed Henry Glover.

He then says that he does not regret it. He goes to trial in 2010, convicted on federal charges of manslaughter. Twenty-five years he's sentenced to, Brooke. And then in appeals, the officer is ordered to have a retrial because he was tried with the officers who led to a cover-up. Glover's body, the man who was killed, was burned in a car after that shooting. All the officers were tried together. But in appeals they determined that because the officer who shot him did not know about this scene, the burning car with Glover's body in it, that he should get a retrial, and he did. And after just a few days of testimony this week, he was acquitted. Listen.

BALDWIN: So - OK, let's listen.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Could you - could you describe the moment when they delivered that - that verdict? What was --

REBECCA GLOVER, HENRY GLOVER'S AUNT: Man, it was a blow -- like somebody stabbed me in my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: That was Glover's sister, just inconsolable there as one would imagine.

BALDWIN: So what about back to this police officer, this man, David Warren. This is a man who has already spent three years in prison, yes?

BLACKWELL: Yes, after that 2010 conviction, he was sent to prison to begin that 25 years. He will be home for the holidays, and he spoke moments after that acquittal. And he says that he understands how the family of Henry Glover, how those relatives feel. I want you to listen to him as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN MURRAY, ATTORNEY FOR DAVID WARREN: Elated. We think that our client was innocent. We think he's always been innocent from the beginning. And he spent three and a half years in jail. But the system ultimately worked. We'll also say that we do understand the sadness of the Glover family. They lost a son, a father, a brother, and we're not unmindful of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And that was Warren's attorney. He says that he is elated to be home, right in time for the holidays. He is a father of five and he says he has no interest in going back to law enforcement, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Victor Blackwell, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

BALDWIN: And now to a story about a man imprisoned for a crime he did not commit. Back in 1987, Michael Morton was convicted of the brutal killing of his wife. This man spent 25 years behind bars, cut off from the world, losing contact with his only son. And then, finally, DNA evidence proved that Morton was innocent. This is what he claimed all along. "New Day's" Chris Cuomo sat down with Michael Morton before the airing of our CNN film entitled "An Unreal Dream."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MORTON, DNA EXONERATED HIM AFTER 25 YEARS IN PRISON: I am probably the personification of that old axiom you remember from school about you can't prove a negative. It's just you -- how do you prove you didn't do something?

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": How rough was it inside?

MORTON: I never liked it. But I got used to it.

CUOMO: How long did it take you?

MORTON: Probably 14 or 15 years.

CUOMO: Fourteen or 15 years.

MORTON: To get where I was used to it.

CUOMO: Are the first years the hardest?

MORTON: The first years are hard just because it's a shock and it's new and it's constant adjustment, constant recalibration.

CUOMO: What did you son mean to you?

MORTON: As I began losing pieces of myself, my reputation, my assets, most of my friends, as those things diminished, my son's importance rose, just if nothing else, supply and demand.

CUOMO: And how were the visits?

MORTON: To me, it was this -- I'm a starving man looking at some food on the other side and I'm just eating it up and it's great and it's wonderful. I've since found out, well, he's looking at me as this guy that really doesn't exist in his life. Somebody he just sees once in a while.

CUOMO: As he started to grow up and wanted distance, how did you deal with that, and what ultimately did it lead to?

MORTON: He suspended the visits. And eventually then I found out that he had changed his name legally and been adopted. Few things are as powerful to a parent as the abject rejection of their child.

CUOMO: You say, I always thought that I would get out. What fuelled the hope?

MORTON: It's difficult for me to say whether it was just faith that I knew I was right and I wasn't guilty, that this would work out or just that I didn't know how deep I was in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN film is called "An Unreal Dream." airs tonight, 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.