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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
The Affluenza Defense; Indian Diplomat Arrested; Spying Documents Revealed; White House Panel Calls On Congress To End NSA Storage of Phone Records; Star Of "Duck Dynasty" Suspended For Anti- Gay Remarks; Jackpot Winners Speak Out On How Lottery Millions Changed Their Lives
Aired December 18, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: That war of words between India and the United States. Indians are burning American flags. The Indian government has stopped protecting the U.S. embassy against possible attacks.
Believe or not, this international incident started with a nanny in New York. The next thing you know a diplomat is strip-searched and things came unglued.
And later, as a woman comes forward to claim her share of that massive -- lotto jackpot, two former winners tonight talk about what's in store and why getting rich quick is sometimes no prize.
We begin with the story that we first reported last week that outraged a lot of people. Tonight a new development. A new effort to put a killer behind bars because whatever else you think of Ethan Couch, he is a killer four times over. He got drunk, extremely drunk, and ram his father's pickup truck into a broken down car in a road in Burleson, Texas, in June.
He was three times over the legal limit. Only in his case at age 16 he wasn't even legal to drink in the first place. He was convicted of manslaughter but sentenced only to probation and rehab and likely going to this $450,000 a year California facility paid for by his family.
The judge buying a psychologist testimony that young Ethan was suffering from something called affluenza. The idea being that his wealthy parents had so completely indulged his prior bad behavior that he was incapable of taking responsibility of this actions. In other words, the spoiled brat defense. For killing four people including Eric Boyles' wife and daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC BOYLES, WIFE AND DAUGHTER KILLED IN CRASH: The primary message has to absolutely be that money and privilege can't buy justice in this country. That it's not OK to drink and drive and, you know, kill four people, wound -- severely injure another and not have any consequences to that. That -- that's not the -- that's not the American dream that we grew up to participate in. And I -- I just don't understand it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, not many people do. They simply don't understand how getting away with things as a child entitles you as a young adult to not go to prison for killing people. Last week, the psychologist in question came on the program and as you'll hear could barely bring himself to concede that Ethan Couch killed anyone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: If you'd commit a crime, if you killed four people, you can't use that as an excuse, can you?
G. DICK MILLER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, and the term -- when you use the word kill and people out in America hear that, it implies that there was some -- that motive, that the motive was not good.
COOPER: Are you saying he didn't murder --
MILLER: And I think, Anderson, that these people had --
COOPER: He didn't kill four people?
MILLER: Yes, he did not murder four people. It's a legal term.
COOPER: Well, OK, but he slammed his truck --
MILLER: First-degree --
COOPER: -- into four people.
MILLER: First-degree -- first-degree homicide and involuntary manslaughter are different things, Anderson.
COOPER: He killed four people, yes?
MILLER: Four people died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Four people died he says, as if they slipped away quietly at home in their beds. In fact, four people died because Ethan Couch got drunk, got behind the wheel and killed them.
Now facing enormous backlash at the sentence, Texas authorities are trying to put him in prison in connection with the two other people who did not die in the incident. They were in the back of the pickup. They begged him to slow down reportedly, and instead he sped up. Sergio Molina and Soliman Mohmand. Sergio Molina was paralyzed and can only communicate by blinking his eyes.
Gary Tuchman recently visited with his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tell me about Sergio, what kind of boy he is.
MARIA LEMUS, SERGIO MOLINA'S MOTHER: He was the best son. He was that kind of boy with a lot of dreams. He was -- well, his first dream was to be a soccer player. He was sweet. I mean, he was --
TUCHMAN: He's lucky he -- he's lucky he has you. You need to hear that from people like me, outsiders. Do you realize that?
TUCHMAN: He's lucky he has you and his siblings to take care of him, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, now Sergio and Soliman's story will be the focus of the new legal effort.
Ed Lavandera is on the story, joins us now.
So clearly, Ed, the D.A. is looking for any way possible to have Couch spend some jail time here. Do people you've spoken with today think this will actually work?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what the D.A. in Fort Worth, Texas is trying to do is get Ethan Couch, 16 years old, sent to jail for those two intoxication assault charges. They are arguing that what the judge sentenced him to was the intoxication manslaughter charges, so they're going to try again with this. But many legal analysts I've heard talk about this throughout the day today say simply this is just a long shot at best.
If the judge gave him probation and rehab for two -- for four manslaughter charges, how could she go above and beyond that for two lesser charges?
COOPER: Right. I mean, is this move just a political one from the D.A. just given that there's been a lot of outrage about this? Just trying to show that they're doing something?
LAVANDERA: Well, look, the fact of the matter is -- district attorneys in Texas and most everywhere else are elected officials. So they're very attuned to what people are saying about this so clearly, they get it, that many people are angry about this sentence but they're also weren't happy with the way the sentence came down. They would like to see jail time so they are going down this avenue.
COOPER: Right. They had originally argued for a 20-year sentence. I mean, that was the maximum that could have been gotten.
What about the judge? Has she given any sign that she's feeling public pressure to change course in any way? LAVANDERA: Not a bit. In fact, judges here in Texas as well -- are elected, as well. But she is, we're told, not seeking reelection next year and we put in numerous calls, CNN has tried for the better part of the last week to get in touch with her to make -- and see if she has any kind of comment to be able to explain the rationale behind all this and we have never heard back from her.
COOPER: And the victims' family in this case have filed lawsuits against the Couch family for their son's actions, right?
LAVANDERA: Yes, you talk to -- Gary Tuchman spoke with Sergio Molina, his family has a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Couch family. They say -- Sergio Molina's family said they've already racked up in the short time since this accident happened and he has been comatose essentially, is that they've racked up more than $1 million in medical bills in the last several months. And that this is the way he will be for the rest of his life. So they are looking for money to be able to cover those expenses.
COOPER: I know there are going to be some other lawsuits as well.
Ed, I appreciate the update.
I want to bring in former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin and criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos.
Sunny, do you actually believe the D.A. has a shot? I mean, to Ed's point, if the judge gave probation for killing four people for manslaughter, it seems unlikely that she would give then jail time for a lesser offense.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I don't think it's unlikely. I don't think that it's inappropriate. I mean, you have disparity in sentences all the time.
I will tell you, I think that this was a gift for this judge. People are calling for her removal. I think she should be removed. This was borderline an illegal sentence. It was way too lenient. And the gift that the prosecutors are giving her is another shot at getting it right, at doing the right thing.
Mark Geragos is never going to admit that I said this initially. A creative prosecutor is going to try to right this wrong. I think that this sentence could be appealed. The prosecutor's office doesn't think that but now they're finding another way to bring this young man to justice. The cure for affluenza is prison time. That is what he should get. He's exposed to about three years per intoxication assault and that is what he should get.
COOPER: Mark, is this justice or do you think it's just politics?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is not just politics, it's a complete showboat by the prosecution. They have no chance, legally, unless they want to undo 200 years of jurisprudence.
Once he's been sentenced, it's the same act, all of these injuries took place out of the same act, there is -- I hate to use this term, but legions of cases. You can't go back and then serially prosecute somebody. Once he's been sentenced for the same act, they knew about it. It isn't newly discovered.
As far as this idea and let's get some of our terms straight. First of all, this kid is not eligible for prison. This kid is at most eligible or was eligible --
COOPER: For juvenile justice system.
GERAGOS: For the juvenile justice system with a max of three years until he was 19.
HOSTIN: That's right.
GERAGOS: The prosecutor has no ability, as I said before, to appeal this. They're just doing a -- for lack of a better term, a showboat.
COOPER: But --
HOSTIN: It's not showboat because asked for 20 years.
COOPER: But plenty -- plenty of kids do -- I mean, if they don't have money, they do get sent to the juvenile justice system in the state of Texas.
GERAGOS: There's no question --
HOSTIN: And then when they become adult, they're sent to the adult prison system.
GERAGOS: There's no question that there -- that he could have been sentenced to the juvenile justice system. That's a given.
GERAGOS: What she did --
COOPER: And there are rehab facilities in the juvenile justice system.
GERAGOS: There are.
COOPER: Although they're clearly not as good as this $450,000 a year --
GERAGOS: No. There's nowhere near as good. And so, you know, from my standpoint, instead of pillaring this judge who by all accounts is not a whack job, she's not a wing nut, she's not somebody who's outside of the main stream, she's very well-thought of.
I don't know her but I've done some research -- HOSTIN: Except that she -- except that she sent a black kid who punched someone and that person fell and died, she sentenced him to 10 years in prison.
GERAGOS: To 10 years. Correct.
HOSTIN: Ten years in prison but this kid that killed four people gets off.
GERAGOS: I can pick -- I could pick judge after judge after judge, prosecutor after prosecutor, where there's disparity because of race and means. What I'm telling you is this should be a pivot point for a discussion as to why we don't have the rehab facilities, why we don't have the juvenile justice facilities to handle something like this because I think what she was thinking is she took a look at this kid and said he is never going to survive and --
HOSTIN: That's ridiculous.
COOPER: But --
HOSTIN: Who cares if he doesn't survive, Mark?
GERAGOS: Well, then why don't we give him -- then why don't we give him the death penalty?
HOSTIN: That's ridiculous.
COOPER: No, no, but --
HOSTIN: Look, bottom --
COOPER: But it is interesting, I've heard a lot of people on this program who are supporting the decision of this judge concerned about this kid's survivability in prison. I don't hear a lot of people saying, wow, I'm worried about this young African-American defendant.
HOSTIN: That infuriates me, Anderson.
COOPER: And how he's going to do in prison.
HOSTIN: That infuriates me that you have the nerve to say that, Mark Geragos.
GERAGOS: You -- you know, she can keep saying that --
HOSTIN: Bottom line is that the juvenile justice system does favor rehabilitation.
GERAGOS: Sunny --
HOSTIN: But not when someone kills four people. GERAGOS: It doesn't favor.
HOSTIN: Who cares if he doesn't do well in prison.
GERAGOS: It says --
COOPER: One at a time. One at a time.
HOSTIN: He's not supposed to do well in prison.
GERAGOS: It says --
HOSTIN: It's supposed to be punishment for killing four people.
GERAGOS: Stop misusing the terms.
GERAGOS: He's supposed to go to a juvenile justice type facility. The whole idea of -- of the juvenile system is rehabilitation. If you want to put him in prison, you have to make him an adult. That's why we have direct filing. Now when Sunny says I'm not the one who's not talking about racial disparity --
COOPER: You talk about it all the time.
GERAGOS: We talk about it all the time. I'm the one who's screaming at the top of my lungs that there is a disparity in the criminal justice system.
HOSTIN: Well, isn't this an unjust sentence?
GERAGOS: It is an unjust when you put it side by side with the other -- with the other kid, but does that mean that we're going to go back and throw this kid under the train tracks? And if you say who cares, I understand that. Then give him the death penalty.
COOPER: OK. We got to leave it there. Good discussion.
Mark Geragos, thank you. Sunny Hostin, as well.
Let us know what you think. Let's talk about it on Twitter. Follow me @AndersonCooper. Tweet us using hash tag ac360.
Coming up next, breaking news. A diplomat's wounded dignity. The U.S. Attorney's Office is responding. Does her detention and strip- search expose a double standard?
They're freaking out over in her home country, India, dropping their guard at our embassy. The question is, would we be freaking out, too, if another country did the same thing to an American envoy?
Also, more breaking news tonight. A blockbuster of the phone spying program exposed by Edward Snowden, a handpicked White House panel says it has not prevented all the NSA collection of megadata has not prevented any terrorist attacks and needs to be reined in. Glenn Greenwald and Jeffrey Toobin face off, ahead.
COOPER: Breaking news tonight on a diplomatic uproar between India and the United States that could be putting American lives at risk. American lives, India pride and one diplomat's personal dignity. That diplomat was strip-searched. A short time ago the U.S. attorney involved in her case tried to temp down the uproar which was on display across India today.
That burning the American flag (INAUDIBLE), protesting on the streets of Delhi. The American embassy is now open not just for business but potentially a lot more open to attack, no longer protected by Indian security forces. They pulled out.
The United States needs to be reminded, said one official, that India cannot be treated in this manner. That official is talking about the detention and strip search of India's deputy consul general here in New York.
More on the breaking news shortly, but first, Deborah Feyerick on how we got here.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As she left the Indian mission in New York City Wednesday, Devyani Khobragade offered no comment.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have anything to say?
FEYERICK: The deputy consul general was charged with making false statements on a visa application she submitted on behalf of her nanny. The diplomat was arrested near her daughter's Manhattan school and handed over to U.S. Marshals. She was strip searched and put into general population with alleged criminals. She was given no special status since the charges related to her personal life and not her consular function.
According to the criminal complaint, the diplomat said the nanny would be paid a minimum wage of $9.70 an hour. Instead, the nanny said she was paid just over $3 an hour. That amount is three times less than New York's minimum wage. However, it's about three times more what than the average domestic in India makes.
DANA SUSSMAN, NANNY'S ATTORNEY: The allegations are that the -- Dr. Khobragade lied to the federal government in order to obtain an A-3 visa to bring her domestic worker here with no intention of paying the required wages for the hours she requested.
Our clients who work as domestic workers are living in the home with their employer. So if they leave, they not only leave their legal status, they leave their only source of income. They leave the only home that they've known in a foreign country. So this is more than -- than a labor dispute. MARTINA VANDENBERG, PRO BONO LEGAL CENTER: Once you hand someone over to the Marshall Service, they are being arrested and there is no door for rich people and no door for poor people. Everyone is arrested. Everyone is equal before the law in the United States.
FEYERICK: Martina Vandernberg has been tracking alleged diplomatic and consular abuse cases for the last decade.
VANDENBERG: So what's different about this case? The State Department and the Department of Justice stepped up and they actually took these allegations, investigated them thoroughly, and decided that they had enough information, enough evidence to indict the case.
FEYERICK: According to the criminal complaint, the 39-year-old Khobragade agreed to pay the nanny $4500 a month. However, a lawyer for the diplomat says that figure was Dr. Khobragade's salary, not the nannies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She'll be completely vindicated.
FEYERICK: Lawyers for both the diplomat and the nanny say attempts to resolve the dispute financially were unsuccessful.
(On camera): Was this an attempt simply to get a green card?
AVOLY LANNING, HUMAN TRAFFICKING EXPERT: I think that that question has been asked. There are other avenues for immigration relief, other than putting yourself into a situation where you're going to be exploited.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So the U.S. attorney just a few minutes ago responded to the whole thing. What did they say?
FEYERICK: Yes. And he responded with some very strong language. Preet Bharara is saying that this diplomat was not treated unfairly. In fact, she was treated with a fair amount of deference. When she was strip searched, it was done by a female deputy marshal. However, they say that's not only for her protection but also for the protection of other people that she might be put with. So that's just standard procedure.
But he said that she was not arrested in front of her children. She was not handcuffed. She was allowed to make numerous phone calls, including to arrange child care.
He also came out very strongly saying look, you've got to focus on the victim and what was going on. The victim's family has now been brought to the United States and that's because there was retaliation against the family.
Legal proceedings had started in India, but in addition, the family was trying to get her to return back to that country, where really she would have no legal rights. Also, just keep in mind, that Khobragade coerced the nanny to sign a second document after she had successfully gotten the visa. So while the nanny had agreed to come here and be paid, New York's minimum wage of $9.75, her employer enforced her to sign a second document saying that she would agree to $3.30 an hour.
So very different. And that's where fraud comes in and that's where the charges against this diplomat doctor.
COOPER: All right. Deb Feyerick, appreciate the reporting. Thanks.
Late today we learned that Secretary of State Kerry spoke with India's National Security adviser expressing regret for the incident. The question is, how that might play in India, that's unclear.
What we do know is that this is now a real international incident. As we mentioned, security being pulled from the U.S. embassy in Delhi.
That's where CNN International Mallika Kapur is right now.
This incident has evoked a lot of reaction from India. There's protests on the streets. Harsh words, retaliation from the government. I read one minister saying they should arrest same-sex partners of U.S. diplomatic workers because homosexuality is now illegal there.
MALLIKA KAPUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A member of the opposition made that comment a day or two ago because really there is such outrage in India over the way the diplomat was arrested in New York, the way that she was arrested, you know, during a school run, and the strip searching, that has really, really upset people over here.
People here, the government has called the incident barbaric and even the Indian prime minister, who's usually very careful with his words, he is a mild-mannered man, even he spoke out yesterday calling the incident despicable and deplorable. So yes, a huge amount of outrage here in India.
Now is India retaliating? Yes, India is retaliating and they've introduced a number of measures. For one, they have taken away the identity cards issued to consular staff of the United States here in various cities across India. What that basically means is that they are stripping away some of the diplomatic privileges these people enjoy such as access to airport lounges.
They have also, as you mentioned earlier, Anderson, removed some of the concrete barriers outside the U.S. embassy here in New Delhi. And New Delhi Police say that they removed them because this was just a friendly courtesy that they had extended to the embassy. It was never a diplomatic requirement and that it insists that all U.S. embassy staff members are safe.
COOPER: OK. Mallika Kapur, appreciate the update. Thank you.
Also with us tonight is Seema Sirohi of the Gateway House Indian Council on Global Relations and Aseem Chhabra who writes a column for the "Mumbai Marriot" newspaper.
Seema, you're upset with the way this diplomat was treated. You said this is a classic case of a double standard when it comes to U.S. diplomacy. What do you mean by that?
SEEMA SIROHI, GATEWAY HOUSE INDIAN COUNCIL ON GLOBAL RELATIONS: Well, it's a simple thing. When Americans are serving abroad as diplomats, they expect a certain level of treatment, and they insist on it, and when they get into trouble with local laws, they are treated very differently. Sometimes they are whisked out of the country, even when they've been involved in really serious crimes. So -- but when it comes to diplomats from other countries, they seem to be very helpless and they say it's our law.
COOPER: To compromise, though, the security of the U.S. embassy in New Delhi as retaliation, is that a productive way to address the situation?
SIROHI: No, it is not. And I have criticized it in my writing and social media, as well. I don't think that's a very good move. I think both sides need to calm down and work out a solution, but at the same time, it cannot be denied that the outrage in India at the way the diplomat was treated is very strong.
COOPER: Aseem, you say that what's being lost in all of this is the plight of this domestic worker.
ASEEM CHHABRA, MUMBAI MIRROR COLUMNIST: But that's an issue that is not being discussed much, although there have been talked about the fact that U.S. State Department actually arranged for her husband and child to come here. We haven't heard anything about her situation and the fact that she was -- you know, we know that she was working under some very difficult conditions in terms of the money that she was making.
There were apparently two contracts that were signed by her and her employer as the U.S. attorney's office says. The first contract said that she would get $4500 per month, which is a descent amount of salary to earn in New York. The second contract said that she would get 30,000 rupees. Now 30,000 rupees is actually a substantial amount for a domestic help in India, most -- in fact, a lot more because most domestic help actually get more like half or a third of that.
But when you convert 30,000 rupees into dollars, that amounts to $500. I mean, you know, there's been a lot of protest in India. I personally believe they are really politically motivated. We have elections coming up in May and --
COOPER: And you say that's what's behind a lot of this.
CHHABRA: It's very clear. Because there was a U.S. congressional delegation that just visited New Delhi yesterday before and both the leader of the Congress Party, (INAUDIBLE), who's going to be presumably the -- you know, the prime minister candidate of the party, as well as the prime minister candidate of the opposition (INAUDIBLE) Party, both have refused to meet the U.S. delegation. I mean, and that's -- to me, it's this -- clearly this becomes an election sort of a statement they're making that look, we are standing up against the U.S.
SIROHI: While I agree with Aseem that a little bit of politics is coming into it because we are in an election season, but that applies equally well to U.S. diplomats who should have read this situation a little better.
I think the bureaucracy in the United States treated this whole thing in a very unthinking manner. The relationship is an important one. We are strategic partners, we express love for each other all the time, but you know, you can't allow something like this to come in the way. Then they should have been on the ball, and they weren't.
COOPER: Seema, I appreciate you being here, and Aseem as well. Thank you very much.
CHHABRA: Thank you very much.
COOPER: Always, find out more about the story at CNN.com.
Just ahead, we have more breaking news, the panel charged with reviewing the NSA's controversial spying activity is exposed by Edward Snowden. This is a panel set up by President Obama basically agrees with him on many accounts is calling for sweeping changes at the agency.
Also ahead, the winners in last night's Mega Millions drawing might want to listen up. We'll talk to two former lottery winners. One man says it ruined his life.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, a panel appointed by the White House to review the NSA's controversial mass surveillance activity is just calling for sweeping new limits on a range of intelligence gathering programs exposed by Edward Snowden.
This revelation that the NSA can collect phone records on each and every call that Americans make set off a huge outcry that hasn't let up. By some estimates the NSA's data base of call data contains more than one trillion records.
On Monday, a federal judge in Washington ruled that the government's bulk collection of metadata is unconstitutional. And now the panel which was handpicked by the White House says the NSA should give up its massive database.
Chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto joins me now.
So what are the biggest recommendations from the panel? Run them down.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the headline recommendation here is the word accountability. That's what one of the panel members said to me, accountability to the Congress, to the White House and to the American public, and you could see that reflected in the 46 recommendations the panel made.
For instance they want Congress to pass legislation to move all that metadata, all those phone records from the NSA's possession back to the phone companies so it's in private hands, not in government hands.
For instance, the White House, they want to have White House approval, in fact presidential approval whenever the NSA is listening to the phone conversations of foreign leaders like Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, you remember all the outrage that cause in Germany when that was discovered.
In terms of the American public, a whole range of things, one of them being they want a civilian head of the NSA, not a military leader. They think that would send a good message. Things like to that to appeal to everyone and say there is better accountability and transparency.
Anderson, they did not recommend ending this metadata collection program. They want to keep that in place. The members say there is still a national security interest in doing that.
COOPER: The Obama administration is not legally bound to do any of this?
SCIUTTO: Not at all. In fact, the president looks at these recommendations and he picks and chooses what he wants to do going forward and that's what a senior administration official told me. He's going to look and in January, he is going to come back and say what he accepts in effect.
We already know one of the recommendations in the panel the president has rejected and that is the panel recommended that you separate the NSA from the military cyber command, those are now under the joint leadership, the joint command of Keith Alexander, the head of the NSA. The president has already said he is not going to do that one.
COOPER: Investigator, journalist, Glenn Greenwald broke the Snowden story. Jim, appreciate your reporting. Glenn Greenwald broke the story, published all the big leaks so far. He joins me tonight along with senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Glen, what do you make of this report, the recommendation?
GLENN GREENWALD, JOURNALIST: It's extremely important, especially in the wake of the federal court ruling earlier this week found that the bulk collection program is unconstitutional or likely so and now you have a panel of the White Houses hand-picked advisors concluding that the program in its current form should stop, it poise as serious danger to core liberties and just as the court found, there is no evidence it plays any important role in stopping terrorist attacks.
COOPER: Jeff, I mean, again, as Glen said, coming on the heels of the court rolling being unconstitutional, what do you make of it?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think I find myself in an uncharacteristic agreement with Glenn, by and large, although there is one very puzzling aspect to it, which I -- honest to God, really, just don't understand. What they suggest is moving the meta data away from the NSA to the private sector. Now, do we trust the private sector so much in this country that this data, which everyone is so worried about, is so concerned about, it's better to have it under the control of Amazon or Google or whoever the turns out to be rather than the United States government?
COOPER: Glenn, what do you think about that? My understanding is they would have to go to a judge every time they actually want to access the data.
GREENWALD: Right, it's a fair point, except two things, one is that remember the telecoms and the internet companies already have this data. It's not as though they give it to the government and no longer possess it. They continue to possess it even now under status quo. What would change is it's the government, which generally pose the greatest threat to liberty as the constitutional recognizes when it constructs the government. The second part of that, as well, each individual company so Verizon, AT&T, Google, Facebook, have their own customer communications, but nobody else's. The problem now is that all of it gets centralized in one entity, the U.S. government that can access the communication. So this breaks it up.
COOPER: It's pretty stunning, Glenn, when you read this. Information contributed to terrorist investigations by the use of section 215 telephone meta data was not essential to preventing attacks. That's saying the whole point of this entire thing, didn't have the intended point it was supposed to.
GREENWALD: Anderson, to me that is the key point. I'll tell you why. This whole controversy began when the director of national intelligence for President Obama, Director Clapper appeared before the Senate and when asked whether the NSA was collecting data on millions of Americans, lied at the Senate, which is a felony, and said no, and then our report showed they were doing exactly that, which they denied doing.
And then ever since the scandal began, the NSA's position has been the same, it's urgent we do these things to stop terrorist attacks. A month ago, three Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee those who have access says there is no evidence this program stops terrorism, the judge, the federal judge three days ago said the same thing.
There is no evidence that the NSA can point to it stops terrorism and you have a White House panel saying the same thing, the NSA should not be believed when they go before the American public and try to scar them by yelling terrorism over and over. There is no evidence it stops it. It's crucial.
COOPER: So Jeff, I got to put a question to you, A, this federal judge says it's unconstitutional and you this panel from a wide variety of backgrounds saying that it didn't really do anything to stop terrorism. Do you think this further vindicates Edward Snowden? TOOBIN: Definitely. I mean, definitely it vindicates the result of what has happened. I remain convinced, and I remain sure this was not the vehicle that Snowden should have used to go forward. You know, classified information is not his to decide to give to Glenn Greenwald or anyone else, but raising these issues is very important, and I continue to disagree with how it came up, but this is an important conversation for the country to have.
COOPER: Glenn, how much of these recommendations do you see the White House adopting?
GREENWALD: Well, that's a really great question. I think already they indicated some of them they are not actually amenable to and there is going to be serious awkwardness if the panel that did it voluntarily, handpicked the people, loyalist close to President Obama, people at the University of Chicago, Sun Stein in his administration looked at the deputy director of the CIA, and looked at this and said we don't need the programs to say safe.
They are menace to Americans. You've asked us to tell you what should be done after a careful review. How does the Obama White House turn around in the mist of this controversy and say we're going to ignore our own panel's recommendations. We're going to disregard them even though we picked those people to do this job. I think it's going to be a great deal of difficulty they will face if they do that.
COOPER: Glenn, good to have you on, Jeff Toobin as well. Thanks.
Up next, more breaking news, the story of "Duck Dynasty" the usually popular show on A & E has been suspended by A and E for comments he made about homosexuality. >
COOPER: You have more than 1,000 times a better chance of an asteroid or comet hitting you. We'll talk to two people that know what it is like to become a Mega Millionaire overnight.
COOPER: Breaking news tonight, Phil Robertson, the family from "Duck Dynasty" made a remark about gapes. He is quoted saying gays are sinful people. He said start with homosexual behavior and morph out from there, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men. What did he say?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, he kind of tried to walk it back a bit. He said I'm a product of the '60s, I centered my life around sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll until I hit the bottom and accepted Jesus and at the end said we're all created by the all mighty and like him I love all of humanity. I would never treat anyone different because they are not like me. It didn't take with the folks of A and E.
COOPER: Did A and E say how long the suspension would last?
FOREMAN: It's indefinite. They said they are suspending him. This is the most successful reality TV franchise ever. It's worth an absolute fortune, certainly for A and E it is. One of the rules for this family from the beginning that a lot of people admired is the sense of the family very much sticks together, I'll be curious to see if it is possible to spin Phil without having the rest of the folks say fine, we're suspended, too, we will not work without him because we're a family. They are wealthy enough now they don't have to work. There will be a lot going on tomorrow and I suspect a big, big push back from many in the religious community, as well.
COOPER: Tom Foreman, appreciate the update. Tom, thanks.
A woman from Georgia stepped forward holding one of the two winning tickets in the Mega Millions jackpot. The 56-year-old Aira Curry who lives near Atlanta correctly picked all six numbers in last night's $648 million drawing. She heard the numbers announced while driving and she called home and her daughter confirmed her ticket won the jackpot.
She said I was in a state of disbelief. I still didn't believe it when my daughter told me. She's taking the cash option, $120 million after taxes. The other sold in San Jose, California. What's it like to be an instant millionaire?
Tonight, two winners with very different experiences, Rick Cerezo won nearly $5 million and on the phone is Terry Dill, who won more than$3.5 million when he was 18 years old. Rick, you didn't know you had won the lottery right away. It took several months for you to check the ticket. Why is that?
RICARDO CEREZO, WON $4.85 MILLION IN ILLINOIS LOTTERY: That's right, Anderson. The ticket was sitting in a cookie jar in our kitchen for a little over two and a half months before we realized we had won. And it was basically a challenge by my wife to go and get the tickets checked, or she was going to throw them away. That prompted me to go and get them screened and find out whether or not we had won anything.
COOPER: This is probably a dumb question, but how did you feel when you found out you won the jackpot?
CEREZO: You know, it was absolutely insane. You know, we had gone through such a difficult time over the last year and half, and, you know, just a simple clinging of faith and to be rewarded this way was just incredibly overwhelming.
COOPER: What has changed for you in the past year?
CEREZO: In the past year, I guess, the most significant thing for us is the opportunity of choice, true choice. When my son graduated high school last year, he felt his only option was a community college. Now he has the choice to be able to attend whatever college he wants in the United States. And for -- as -- for us as a family, I guess the biggest change has been the ability to give. We were recipients of a lot of help over the last two years, and it just feels so good to be able to give back.
COOPER: And Terry, your experience was different. You won back in 1994. You were the youngest lottery winner in history. What was that like for you?
TERRY DILL, LOTTERY WINNER (via telephone): First of all, good evening, Anderson. It was, like you said, 18 years old as a senior in high school. It's an experience that not too many people get to enjoy. Perhaps, you know, we've all heard stories of the bad, what goes wrong. We got to really focus on what we can do right. Rick hit the nail on the head when he said you're given the opportunity and the gift of choice. Whatever you win that, or if you win a jackpot, mega millions, it doesn't matter, you're given a choice. Make it a blessing or a curse, I mean --
DILL: I can't --
COOPER: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
DILL: I was just thinking, terry, I can't imagine at 18, you know, being in high school and getting 3$3.75 million or however much it was exactly. Did people suddenly try to take advantage of you? Did people treat you differently?
DILL: Not at first. I come from a small town, everybody knew me, I know everybody. They didn't. They treated me just the way they always have. I was very blessed for that opportunity. Once I got out of town and started going to college and so forth, yes, that did happen. But whenever you receive something like that, you go through a process. It's just like grieving.
There is three steps to grieving, there is the denial, shock and finally accepting. Trying to tell an 18-year-old isn't possible. They think they know it all. Trying to tell an 18-year-old that has $3.5 million something is impossible. It's just not going to listen, had I done so, things would have been a lot different.
COOPER: What would you do differently, Terry, if you won today and your advice for someone who wins it?
COOPER: You know, one of your people last night, I had to really -- I wanted this to be a message of hope, of perseverance, but the one thing I did wrong, the one thing I should have done and I pray the winners from here on that hear this, the first thing they need to do is drop to their knees and ask the Heavenly Father for guidance.
If you ask, he will guide you. That's one thing I didn't do. I did not do that. I believe if I would have done that, give him the power, things would have turned out completely different. There is a plan for each and every one of us. I helped those who I needed to help. I wasn't living my life the way I should have and just as soon as -- as fast as I received it, it was gone. That's what built the person I am today, the character to per severe through that --
COOPER: So all the money you got is gone?
DILL: For the most part, yes. I do have a little bit stashed away in retirement and stuff like that. Yes, the bulk of it is gone. I was taken advantage of by people who are business-oriented, you know, as you would say. But, you know what? It's all an experience in life. Rick, I researched and saw your story and you're an inspiration and if there is anything you can take away from your story and my story, it's not the money that is of value, it's those who love you and stand by you, the people in your life --
COOPER: Do --
CEREZO: Value, that's worth.
COOPER: Terry, do you still play the lottery?
DILL: Heck yes. I thought I won last night. I had the feeling this is it. What a great story to come on Anderson cooper after and say I just won again. Latch will have.
COOPER: Rick, do you still play?
COOPER: Guys, I appreciate the conversation. Terry, you got a great perspective and Rick, thank you very much.
CEREZO: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Up next, we got some good news about a blind man and his service dog that fell on the tracks as the subway was headed their way.
COOPER: Let's get caught up on other stories. Susan Hendricks has the bulletin.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the Senate passed the compromise budget agreement that the House approved last week. The president is expected to sign it. The agreement maps out government spending for the next two years and reduces the chances of another government shutdown.
A record day on Wall Street after the fed announced a cut back on the bond buying program that stimulates the economy. The Dow surged 292 points closing at a new high of 16,167 and also the S&P hit a new high as well.
Good news for a blind New York City man and his service dog who both fell onto the subway tracks yesterday, as the train was approaching. Cecil williams and his black lab, Orlando, are doing well and donations will allow Williams to keep Orlando when he's retired, which is expected to happen soon.
COOPER: Nice they get to stay together. Susan, thanks very much. "The Ridiculist" is coming up.
COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." I don't usually give much credence to popularity rankings, but one that came out today got my attention. Market Wire looked at social media over the past six months to see which news anchors were being the most and the most favorably, I came in number two with more than 560,000 mentioned, 85 percent of which were favorable. Appreciate that. Thank you.
I can tell you the other 15 percent are mostly comprised of late night ranks, fifth and direct threats of violence. Thank you, Twitter, for bringing us together, appreciate it. What is number one? Which news Kagser is mentioned more than me and more favorable, that would be none other than Ron Burgundy, 91 percent favorable. He beat out me and Megyn Kelly, Katie Couric, Wolf Blitzer and the top five.
He's a top-notch journalist, but I think the data is skewed. For one thing, there is no movie about me and burgundy plays a small role that's out today because it's got some promotion as you might notice. They didn't go the Beyonce supersecret route in releasing this. There are posters everywhere and commercial. They will pretty much let anyone do them.
The truth is when I first graduated from college and started reporting, I was just doing my best ron burgundy impression, the whole persona. When I started "Anderson 360": Ron's Shadow loomed over the show literally. There was a cardboard cutout of him in the studio blocking a light.
He had it in the contract that it could never be removed. It's a huge pain in the bleep. Technically that wasn't a commercial, just a fun thing, anyway, not only are there many, many commercials for "Anchorman two," Burgundy is showing up everywhere.
"RON BURGUNDY": Wolf, I have to ask you do you use vitals hair spray.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": I do use a hair spray --
BURGUNDY: You should use --
BLITZER: I tell the artist, spray it, don't touch it.
BURGUNDY: I say that about numerous parts of my body. Ron would be nervous about in your presence because he's been out of the news game for a while.
BLITZER: If this news thing doesn't work out for me, do you think I have potential on the big screen?
BURGUNDY: Great interview with you --
BLITZER: Let me ask --
BURGUNDY: Great to meet you.
COOPER: Let's do the rankings again, maybe six months from now when the movies aren't playing. Until then, stay class siren burgundy, you'll always be number one. See you an hour from now.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is "PIERS MORGAN LIVE." welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. In the season of goodwill, nothing says festive like a big hug so why was this teenager suspended for hugging his teacher? Is there more to this than meets the eye? He'll tell his story for the first time.