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Pope Francis Urges Peace in Syria; Does Chris Christie Have a "Bully" Problem?

Aired December 25, 2013 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: You'll remember that this is the same pope who when the G-20 Summit was meeting in St. Petersburg, hand a letter to president Putin against any military action in Syria.

He wrote, "Lay aside futile pursuit of a military solution. Find nonmilitary ways to overcome conflict. So, he injected himself there in Syria.

He's also had some comments about the persecution of Christians in the Mideast, which will be interesting. As we know, he's going to be visiting Israel in May. There's already a controversy about that.

So we saw the birth of Jesus celebrated in Bethlehem last evening. Bethlehem, as you may know, in 1950, was about 85 percent Christian. It is now maybe 12 percent Christian. So, a definite minority.

And the controversy is, he's going to be in the region for three days. He's going to go to Jordan, he's going to go to Israel, and then Bethlehem, the West Bank. And people are saying, why isn't he celebrating mass in Israel, too? Why just in Bethlehem? And so there's -- already he's embroiled in the conflict in the Middle East before he's even gotten there.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Hard for any leader.

Let's go back to today's message. One was really interesting. That was the non-followers, atheists. I want to play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): Also by those who do not believe, to desire peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, asking nonbelievers to seek peace, how is that significant to you? I'll tell you from my perspective, maybe he knows everybody's paying attention to him. That he's sort of, you know, become somebody who almost -- on the cover of "TIME" magazine, almost like a star, that people are watching and listening to. Maybe he knows his moment. What do you think?

BECK: Well, probably that is true. But he's also reached out to nonbelievers before.

You remember that interview that he gave with the journalist in Italy, who was agnostic, and the journalist said to him, what about people like me who do not believe? And Pope Francis said, look, you need to act according to your conscience. If your conscience, you're following your conscience saying, you cannot accede to a God, then you need to follow that directive.

So, he's really been inclusive of all people. He's saying, if we're working for peace, you need everybody onboard -- nonbelievers, people of other faiths, and Christians. Obviously the conflicts in these areas in the world are not just with Christians, they're with other denominations, they're with other religions and they're with nonbelievers. So everybody needs to get onboard if peace is to be a reality I think is what this pope is saying.

BASH: Father Beck, thank you very much. And have a merry, merry Christmas. Thanks for coming on.

BECK: Thanks. Same to you.

BASH: Up ahead, the daughter of New York City's mayor-elect makes a shocking online confession. Will it impact Bill de Blasio's political career?

Plus, Chris Christie accused of thuggery. Does the potential presidential candidate have a problem with his temper?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: It's Christmas, but not a whole lot of cheer for New Jersey Governor Chris Christie when he opened up today's "New York Times." The paper wrote a piece about Christie's bully image. One Democratic New Jersey state legislator quoted as saying, "This governor, in his public appearances, has made thuggery acceptable."

Let's bring in our political panel: Reihan Salam is a political commentator for "National Review" and also for CNN. And Hilary Rosen is a CNN political commentator and a Democratic strategist.

First to both of you, thanks for coming on Christmas.

REIHAN SALAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: My pleasure.

BASH: Let's listen to a few of Chris Christie's greatest hits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Did I say on topic? Are you stupid? On topic. On topic. Next question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He suggested maybe the two of you sit down and have a beer and bury the hatchet.

CHRISTIE: I'm running for election in New Jersey. I don't really have time for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, Hilary, I'm actually going to start with you. Jersey girl to Jersey girl.

Just he does not -- do people not understand Jersey? Or does he have a problem here nationally?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm sticking up for Jersey. We have some edge, but we're not all bullies.

They -- you know, here's Chris Christie's problem, I think, going forward, because obviously for him, it's all about 2016.

It's not -- if he were -- if he were sort of a bully and a charmer, if he were a little sarcastic, but said things with a smile, it's that he chooses winners and losers for his bullying. And I think that, you know, right now, the people he's the most aggressive about are reporters, and other Republicans. Those two categories of people are not exactly the people he should be attacking so often.

BASH: But maybe that's what people like him so much, is that he really is, you know, speaking true to the people who aren't usually spoken to that way, right?

Reihan, what do you think?

SALAM: Yes, I think the fact that he has been really tough on other Republicans is part of why many people in the wider public who are frustrated with Republicans at times find him very admirable. It seems as though he is very genuine. He's very authentic and I think people appreciate that.

The really difficult thing in the article was the suggestion that his bullying is sometimes about getting his way. That is, the idea that if one of us, a state official, if a lawmaker, if a mayor of a certain town, doesn't get what he wants, that sometimes he plays real hardball with those guys. And that's the flip side of being someone who's been a pretty effective governor in what is a very difficult, politically contentious state.

Sometimes, you've got to very tough. The question is, if that plays well with the wider public and the country at large. It's not obvious that it will. So, that's something he's going to definitely have to work on.

BASH: All right, guys, I want to go up to New Jersey turnpike to New York, where you are, Reihan, and talk about this compelling video that was released by the mayor-elect, Bill de Blasio's staff, featuring his daughter Chiara. She made a surprising revelation. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIARA DE BLASIO: It made it easier, like, the more I drank, and the drugs, to share some common ground with people that I wouldn't have. It didn't start out as, like, a huge thing for me, but then it became a really huge thing for me.

My mom was trying really hard to help me, just like, you know, any little thing she could. My dad was doing the same. But obviously he was really busy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's a pretty powerful and maybe surprising video. Reihan, up in New York, how is that playing up there?

SALAM: I think it really speaks to America's larger cultural transformation. Even five or 10 years ago, if you think about any political family, you know, the immediate reaction was, we want to protect our privacy. A defensible reaction if you ask me.

But I think that now, there's an expectation that, you know, look, all families have these struggles. Let's be open about it. Let's talk about it.

One interesting aspect of this, however, is that it's going to shape Bill de Blasio's tenure, because he's saying that, look, you know, my daughter had these struggles with substance abuse and what- have-you. Then it's going to have to shape how he treats other families. How he treats the criminal justice system.

And I think that that's going to be interesting because, you know, they're going to be charges of hypocrisy if he doesn't take it into account. I think he intends to.

So, this was really about exposing his family's life in a way to preempt criticism. But it's also about showing what kind of mayor he intends to be, too -- someone who cares about rehabilitation and understanding.

BASH: All those things.

But, Hillary, you know, we live in a town where, particularly right now, in the White House, you have two younger girls. But they are protected, to the nth degree. And for the most part, reporters support that. But from the perspective of, you know, the Obamas, and other parents of children, you don't really see this, this sort of feeling here has been not to put your children on public display.

What do you make of that?

ROSEN: Yes, and you hope that you get to retain that privacy as a public official, if you can.

But, you know, de Blasio ran for mayor, sort of with his family front and center. In fact, kind of used the fact that he had that family a little bit against his opponent, particularly Chris Quinn and with his famous ad with his son.

The interesting thing to me about this video is that, this was very professionally produced. So this was clearly intended not just to get out what is obviously personal and important struggle that his daughter faced. But there was an attempt to kind of shape that message very carefully and very strategically.

BASH: Absolutely.

ROSEN: And I think Reihan raises a really good point, which is how is that going to impact his policy making. Because he is now putting his child out there front and center, in a fairly dramatic way.

BASH: You're exactly right. And, you know, to use one of the terms of 2013 that was definitely no selfie. That was very --

ROSEN: It was not a selfie.

BASH: That was very well produced.

Thank you both. Have a happy holiday. Merry Christmas.

And just ahead, it is one of the year's most heart-warming stories, but making this young cancer survivor's wish come true, it had a cost. Could the money have been better spent?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Tis' the season of giving. But for some Americans, their shrinking wallets are telling them to save instead. A new CNN/ORC poll shows that 61 percent of Americans say they had to cut back on charitable donations because of the economy. That's up from 51 percent in 2009.

So, are charities taking the brunt of the still recovering economy?

Joining me now is David Williams, president and CEO of Make-A- Wish America.

Now, David, you certainly just heard these poll numbers. Are you feeling that at Make-A-Wish? Are you feeling that you guys are getting hurt because people aren't giving as much?

DAVID WILLIAMS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MAKE-A-WISH AMERICA: You know, we were certainly hurt by the recession and it's taken a few years to be able to climb back up. Fortunately for Make-A-Wish, we're actually doing pretty well. A third of our revenue comes in the month of December alone. This is a very big time for us. But so far, we're about 6 percent over last year. So we're actually feeling pretty good.

BASH: And you all had maybe one of the moments, memorable moments of 2013, with Miles, a 5-year-old. The entire city of San Francisco gave him his wish. How did that come together? WILLIAMS: You know, it came together pretty virally, and it was just -- it's one of those things that as more and more people heard about it, they were just excited. And San Francisco alone, over 18,000 people participated in that wish and then, of course, through -- you know, through Twitter and Facebook, and all, it was in the billions. We were very excited. A wish takes place every 38 minutes somewhere in the United States. So we've got some amazing kids, and volunteers who make those wishes happen every day.

BASH: I'm going to play Grinch here and read you part of an op- ed from the "Washington Post," a man by the name of Peter Singer who is a professor at Princeton. He said, according to Make-A-Wish, the average cost of realizing the wish of a child with a life threatening illness is $7,500. That sum if donated to the Against Malaria Foundation, used to provide bed nets to families. It could save the lives of at least two or three children. He goes on to say, saving a life is better than fulfilling a child's wish, like that kid. What's your response to that?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think first of all, there are some -- there are obviously hundreds of thousands if not millions of great charities out there. I think they all speak to various Americans' hearts and minds. So my first response would be, I think we should allow people to contribute to whatever charity they feel strongest about. The one thing I would say about Make-A-Wish, we didn't just give Miles a neat day.

We've had a four-year study on the impact of a wish. The reality is, wishes bring together families at a time where they're very fragile. They help kids with their careers. They help them overcome their illness. You know, what's the price of that? Helping a kid get through their treatment so that they can live a long and productive life?

BASH: Happiness like that, especially for a sick kid, is invaluable. I want to show you a young girl who unfortunately passed away about six weeks ago. Gabriella Miller, at the Eiffel Tower, she got to go to Paris, thanks to the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Is that a big part of what you do at Make-A-Wish, when you get people's donations, you use it to send these kids on trips that they want to go on?

WILLIAMS: We do. We ask these children a very simple question, if you could wish for anything, what would it be? And what it does is it helps them think about the future. It helps them think about something besides their illness. These are kids that have been going through months, if not years of chemotherapy, radiation, surgeries, hospitals, doctors.

And it's just trying to think about the future. And so in some cases, their wish involves travel. But in some cases, it doesn't. It could be something as simple as a puppy, or -- the point is, whatever the kid's wish is, that's what we try to do.

BASH: For people who might be tight on cash, because you do a lot of funding travel, people can donate miles, too, frequent flier miles?

WILLIAMS: They can. We have a need for over 2.5 billion miles. One of the neat things about donating miles is that the expiration goes away once they're contributed. We can take those miles, and put them to good use, so that when we're sending a child to wherever, we can use those miles instead of using cash, and it can be -- it can help take dollars and have them go further.

BASH: That's something people probably don't think about. David Williams, thank you for coming on, on Christmas. Merry Christmas to you.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Coming up next, Franklin Graham talks to Jake Tapper about his father, Billy Graham, his visit to Syrian refugees, and what his charity is giving 10 million children.

At the top of the hour, "CNN Presents, The Two Marys," a special look at two women at the heart of Christianity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: He has an operation Santa Claus could only dream of. The Super Bowl is in December for Franklin Graham. Jake Tapper paid a visit to the Billy Graham Library in Charlotte to check in with Franklin and see the giving and going on and to get an update about his aging father. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRESIDENT, BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION: Coming to this library, you come through the cross.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That was the deal with your dad?

GRAHAM: Yes, sir.

TAPPER (voice-over): Franklin Graham is all smiles as he shows us around the Billy Graham library, a monument to his father's faith and accomplishment as America's pastor, not his accolades.

GRAHAM: My father's never cared for any of that. When he was made a knight, the next day, he never talked about that.

TAPPER (on camera): Really?

GRAHAM: He got the presidential Medal of Freedom. The next day he never talked about it.

TAPPER (voice-over): Billy Graham is fresh off celebrating his 95th birthday and the release of a final sermon. The elder evangelist is ailing.

GRAHAM: He did so well on his birthday and then he got an infection in his lungs. And he just hasn't got -- he's recuperated from that, but he hasn't got his strength back.

TAPPER (on camera): Can he talk?

GRAHAM: Not much. He does say a couple sentences, but that's about it.

TAPPER (voice-over): Franklin Graham, his son, is just back from Iraq where he visited with Syrian refugees.

GRAHAM: The camp was flooded with water. People living in tents and some of the tents had no heat. I was in a tent and there was a woman in her 90s. Her daughter was in her late 60s, early 70s, caring for her 90-year-old mom. I thought about myself trying to care for my father at 95 in a tent in the winter. The people are suffering. They need help. We're providing heaters and things like that for them and we took food to them.

TAPPER: Seeing children suffering and worse ever cause you to question your faith?

GRAHAM: Never causes me to question my faith because Jesus said the poor you'll have with you always. But we have an opportunity to give to the poor. And I want to make sure that I tell as many people as I can about the God of heaven who made them and created them and who loves them and wants them to be with him one day. The only way that can happen is for a person to come to him through faith in his son, Jesus Christ. We ask people to send us shoe boxes with gifts for children. This year, we'll collect somewhere north of 10 million boxes.

TAPPER: Ten million?

GRAHAM: Ten million. Every box is different. They're like snowflakes, no two are alike. We ask people to put a toy in there for a child, school supplies and hygiene items. It's a way that we can give to children around the world. And also, give to the children of the world, the true meaning of Christmas. We take them to refugee camps. We take them to people living in squalor, to the poorest of the poor. I want these children to know that God has not forgotten them and He loves them.

TAPPER: As families around the world are opening gifts this Christmas, they may have a man in Charlotte to thank instead of jolly old Saint Nick. Jake Tapper, CNN, Charlotte, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Our thanks to CNN's Jake Tapper.

There was some disappointment instead of gifts under Christmas trees this morning all across the country. UPS said some packages didn't make their guaranteed delivery in time for the holiday because of higher than expected volume and because of bad weather. The company is apologizing and so is Amazon, which uses UPS for delivery. Amazon says it will refund shipping charges and offer gift cards. Thanks very much for joining us. I'm Dana Bash in Washington. Merry Christmas to everybody. And up next, CNN presents, looks at the two Marys, two women at the heart of Christianity. That's right ahead, after this.