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Dr. Drew
Marijuana Now Legal in Colorado
Aired January 06, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a girl declared brain dead after a simple tonsil procedure. Her parents have refused to give up on her.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
OMARI SEALEY, UNCLE OF JAHI MCMATH: They have a pediatrician who has seen Jahi who has sworn that she is not dead.
PINSKY: Can science bring her back? Plus, sick or sad? It`s OK to buy, sell and smoke pot for fun and profit in Colorado. But what if it doesn`t work out? The Behavior Bureau debates the need for weed. And, fans gone wild. What made this woman go nuts? Let`s get started. Good evening and Happy New Year everyone. My co-host, attorney, Sirius XM radio host, Jenny Hutt. And coming up, it`s now legal go smoke pot in Colorado but is that the way it should be? Is that going be a good thing, bad thing? I`ll tell you where I stand, our panel will talk about it and Anderson Cooper will be here with his thoughts.
But first up, a 13-year-old, Jahi McMath, pronounced brain dead more than three weeks ago following a surgery which was designed to help fix a sleep disorder to sort of remove some of the obstruction from tonsils and adenoids. Now the battle with the hospital. Her family managed to keep her on a breathing machine and move her to some - it`s unclear - we think we know which long-term care facility.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY AND HLN CO-HOST OF THE "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Right.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The surgery sounded simple enough - remove Jahi McMath`s tonsils, adenoids and extra sinus tissue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should this child have ever had the surgery? She got the tonsillectomy because she was suffering from sleep apnea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jahi began bleeding heavily from her nose and mouth, then went into cardiac arrest. Her mother has told reporters she has video of her daughter moving.
LATASHA WINKFIELD, MOTHER OF JAHI MCMATH: The doctors think they know everything, but if they knew everything then my daughter wouldn`t be brain dead right now. They won`t even feed my daughter. I`m just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she - she still looks good.
SEALEY: We believe with all the prayers from everyone around the world and the prayers with our family that she will wake up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No recovery is going to happen here.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
PINSKY: With us tonight, Segun Oduolow, social commentator, Jillian Barbarie, TV personality, Vanessa Barnett, host of hip hop - Hiphollywood.com and Jason Ellis, host of the "Jason Ellis Show" on Sirius XM. Joining us first by phone, CNN`s Ashleigh Banfield with the latest. Ashleigh, do we know where she is now?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR OF THE 11 A.M. EDITION OF "CNN NEWSROOM": The short answer, Dr. Drew, is no --
PINSKY: Yes.
BANFIELD: -- and there`s a reason for it. The family is keeping her location a secret right now because they say that they`ve actually been receiving - wait for it - death threats --
PINSKY: Why?
BANFIELD: -- from across the country. It`s of course unimaginable and unconscionable all at the same time. There are two clues, though, Drew, as to where she might be and those come from court filings in this battle over what to do about Jahi. There was some mention in court filings that she could be closer to her home in an Arizona facility. But there was also a suggestion that she could be at a facility that specializes in brain injury, called New Beginnings in New York. So far, no confirmation on either of those locations or anywhere else. But she is on a respirator, the family says she`s on a feeding tube, that she`s also being given hormones and antibiotics.
The family`s lawyer says that the family says that she`s wasted away while at the hospital for the last - almost a month. You remember that this all sort of came to a head on December 12th, Drew, because that`s when she was pronounced brain dead by the doctors at the hospital. But also by three independent doctors too. The problem is the family says that they`ve got video and they`ve seen movements. Most experts say that`s not what they think it is. But it`s just tragedy all around. And so far, we have not been able to see any of that video.
PINSKY: Thank you, Ashleigh, I appreciate the update. Segun, you know the movement and all are going to be reflexive movements. This family is not you know accustomed to seeing someone with brain death. People don`t wake up from things, and if they ever do, you wish they hadn`t because the state they`re in is something awful. My question, Segun, is this - is the family doing the right thing?
SEGUN ODUOLOW, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, I think that the family is doing what the family wants to do, and who are we to tell them otherwise? Let us divorce ourselves from any type of emotion and let`s just deal with common sense. This is her daughter, this is his niece.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ODUOLOW: If they choose to keep her alive by any means that they`re able to, God be with them. It`s not for us or for anyone who is supposed to be a medical expert to say what they should do with the body of their daughter.
PINSKY: That actually makes me a little upset because we are told that - clinicians - what to do all the time because of the costs. And this is hundreds of thousands of dollars, Jillian, I see you nodding your head with what Segun was saying. I wish we live in a world where costs made - had no - was brought to bear.
ODUOLOW: But Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: No way on this (inaudible), but it comes to bear all the time on medical care.
(CROSS TALK)
JILLIAN BARBARIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with Segun completely. I don`t understand why you know - my neighbor was in a coma for 17 years and he never came out of it. His parents were there every day. It was a vigil, it was up to them to pull the plug. They never did, and I agree completely with Segun. When I first heard there were death threats, my immediate reaction was `Oh, towards the doctors that gave her three major surgeries at once?` Like, who is this? And then I found out it was towards the family. Aren`t they going through hell enough already?
PINSKY: Yes, yes.
BARBARIE: Who in their right mind would do - I mean, it just seems inconceivable.
PINSKY: Yes. And (inaudible), Vanessa, let me ask you, I mean --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s ghoulish.
PINSKY: -- what`s motivating death threats of a family that`s suffering? I mean, it seems so bizarre to me.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, death threats are absolutely absurd and ignorant. It couldn`t be from anyone other than those people on the internet that know they will never be seen, they can be these online thugs and say these words and never have any accountability. And so these people are just ignorant an shouldn`t even be discussed. I`m more concerned with the fact that Segun said we should remove emotion from this situation and just let the family do what the family wants to do. But that`s kind of contradictory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BARNETT: If you remove all emotion from this situation, you look at the facts and you look at this young lady who is technically brain dead. And I know from personal experience, I would never have to pull this - pull the cord. I lost my father last year and we thought it may be something we would have had to do and never in a million years do you want to make this choice. But you have to remove the (inaudible) at some point.
Segun: But if - in all fairness, if someone outside of your family told you what to do with your father, who are they to tell you what to do with your dad?
HUTT: That`s right.
Segun: My thing if you void yourself of emotion -
(CROSS TALK)
BARNETT: They are people who went to school for years - they are the people that we trusted - we trusted those same people to perform the task.
Segun: -- they`re the same people who left her in this state.
PINSKY: Jason, you`ve been very quiet --
Segun: But you let -- the same people who performed -
PINSKY: Hold on a second. Hang on, Segun. Hey, Segun. Listen, we as physicians make decisions all the time - let me assure you we do. So to say, `who are we?`, `how do they` - we make decisions like this all the time.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: Jason, what is your point of view?
Segun: But do you allow for miracles, Dr. Drew? In the medical community -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
Segun: -- are there not miracles that we can`t prove?
PINSKY: Not for - wait a minute.
JASON ELLIS, SIRRIUS XM HOST: I`m with the guy with the bowtie thing. I think he`s right. I think that -
Segun: My man!
ELLIS: I think that he made the baby - who`s my man? Everybody`s my man and my woman. I love everybody. The baby is the mum`s baby and it`s up to the mum to decide what to do with the baby and that`s the end of it. Everybody has to deal with it whether it`s a smart decision or not. She made the baby, you can`t do anything, it`s her baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: Wait a minute -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: -- you guys -
Segun: You don`t like it, too bad - have your own baby.
PINSKY: Wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I mean, we make decisions all the time as a physician for fruitless care. But when care is -
ELLIS: No Drew, no Drew, no Drew.
PINSKY: Jason, we don`t continue to give care that is fruitless. We don`t, we can`t. We can take - we can take people in all kinds of conditions and keep them going forever. We don`t because it costs a fortune and it`s fruitless and it`s considered unethical to do that.
ELLIS: I agree with you.
(CROSS TALK)
BARBARIE: The medical - the medical community, but maybe not to her parents it`s not unethical.
PINSKY: I understand that for someone to deal with the death of a child - I would - it`s just got to be shattering. But do we leave their dysfunctional grieving - and please, I`m not suggesting a problem with grief -
ELLIS: Dysfunctional grieving?
PINSKY: People that don`t - listen, people need to make decisions on behalf of the patient, not just the family. What`s best for the patient? That`s really the doctor`s responsibility. And if that`s best for the patient -
BARBARIE: Dr. Drew, I know you`re fired up -
BARNETT: The family is never going to want to let their daughter go - you never want to have to lose a loved one. So they`re always going to go off of their heart - they want to keep her alive, but if it`s only a machine making her heart beat, what is this doing to the family - it`s prolonging this issue -
PINSKY: That`s right.
BARNETT: -- and it`s making it more difficult for them.
PINSKY: That`s right. That`s exactly right.
BARNETT: I`m not being heartless.
Segun: I disagree with that because the family did say that if her heart was to stop while she`s on the machine, then so be it. But until that day happens, let them grieve in their own way -
BARNETT: But that`s what the machine does. The machine keeps it going.
Segun: Let them do what they want to do. I just find it very arrogant of the medical community and any of us on the panel telling a mother what she should do with her child.
ELLIS: They`re just trying to do the right thing.
BARNETT: I have a child. I have a child, so I know very well you don`t want people intervening, but if we put these people in places to do these surgeries and we go to them and ask their opinions as experts, at what point do we just stop listening? When our hearts are involved?
Segun: When I don`t want to take their opinion any more.
(CROSS TALK)
I think when it`s about life and death, you can, you know, make your opinion.
BARNETT: -- and not breathing.
BARBARIE: Dr. Drew, really quickly - was there something else going on with this girl? A 13-year-old girl going in for tonsils, adenoids, some other mucus - a tissue, membrane. It just seems that she should not be dead. She woke up after the surgery, --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course not.
BARBARIE: -- she asked for a popsicle, it seemed to be fine and then things went completely wrong.
PINSKY: Yes, she should not be dead, that`s true.
BARBARIE: Why are we concentrating so much on their parents - right, so why are we not looking at the medical community and saying `What the hell went wrong?` Why are we focusing on the parents -
PINSKY: There`s about a one in 30,000 to one in 40,000 probability of a serious misadventure from a procedure like this, and the kids that are more likely to have the very serious complications - it`s a surgery - you can take a Tylenol and die, guys. It`s - whenever you interact with the medical system, it is dangerous. And the fact is it`s the kids that have other medical problems that are more likely to have the very serious and life-threatening complications. In her case, perhaps it was - she`s - clearly had sleep apnea, she had weight issues. Maybe that was sufficient to put her in a higher risk category. Maybe they didn`t attend to that risk, perhaps. That`s a malpractice issue, separate thing. We got to - we got to end this conversation. Next up, is there some way to bring her back. There are actually people that believe they can use science to do that. The Behavior Bureau`s going to weigh in. And later on, pot legal. Now for fun and for profit. I`m going to give you my take, we`re going to get Anderson Cooper`s take on this - yes, Colorado - there they are having a good time. We`ll be back in just a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been threats made upon her - people who are crazy folks who`ve been saying that she ought to die.
WINKFIELD: She is breathing and she is moving.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This dead woman according to you know officials is now at this other facility and this thing is still continuing. You call this `ghoulish.`
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are running around the country with a dead body in an ambulance? WINKFIELD: I hate it that they refer to her as just a body.
SEALEY: I don`t think an autopsy is going to be necessary especially since the fact that she`s living right now.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny. Again, we`re talking about this 13-year-old who was declared brain dead over three weeks ago. She`s reportedly in a secret long-term care facility. Her family continues to hope she`ll recover. There`s not recovery from this kind of injury. There isn`t. There just isn`t. I`m going to read you a tweet that I thought was very important. Can you guys put it up on the screen there? There it is. And it says basically, "I watched my sister for seven years brain dead. I told my family don`t for one minute leave me brain dead. It is cruel.
And I must tell you, Jenny, as having seen many, many serious brain injuries, that tweet is exactly right. That`s what I was talking about, that we as physicians have a responsibility to put the patient first. It is cruel to keep somebody needlessly going and it`s expensive and cruel and it only prolongs the suffering of the family.
Jenny, what do you want to say?
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Right, but I also think, Dr. Drew, isn`t it also the job of the physician to explain to the parents of this child and it`s a devastating, devastating situation, but what exactly is going on, that she is in fact brain dead?
PINSKY: I`m glad you brought that up.
Let`s bring in our behavior bureau to discuss this. Cheryl Arutt, forensic psychologist, Erica America, Z100 radio personality, also psychotherapist, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, and Jennifer Keitt, live coach and radio host. Reminder, you can join the conversation right now, tweeting us at @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau.
All right. So, Shirley, I guess I`ll frame this way to Jennifer first.
Jennifer, the girl`s family, they`re grieving, and the grieving is painful. And there`s a certain amount of denial. They`re hoping she`s going to wake up, which is not going to happen. She`s not asleep. Is that sick or sad?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: It is very, very, very sad. I have sat with too many families, Dr. Drew, who have had to make this very painful and very, very personal decision, but it is not going to help this family begin to grieve, begin to heal, begin to celebrate this young lady`s life, as long as they`re holding on to her body. That`s it. It`s just her body that is alive.
And I know, I know it`s setting off a torrent of emotion. I know that it deeply cuts all of us because, you know what? We don`t want to face death, especially when you`re talking about a 13-year-old young lady.
But the reality of it is it is really sad, but letting go to me is the pathway to get serious healing and celebration of her life.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, POP TRIGGER: Dr. Drew, I want you to clarify, because when I was looking at social media earlier, there`s a lot of confusion between whether or not somebody is in a vegetative coma-like state and somebody is brain dead.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: So, can you tell us the difference?
PINSKY: Brain dead is an irreversible condition of the entire shutdown of the central nervous central system. There`s nothing -- even the basic functions of breathing don`t operate. Nothing. That`s why she has to be on a breathing machine. There`s nothing there.
Cheryl, you -- I heard you were talking to my producers about how the parents are projecting what the child used to be on to the body, but there`s nobody there. That person is now gone.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Psychologically, I think that these parents are projecting the little girl who they knew and loved on to the shell of her now who is breathing but they`re projecting that as a way of holding on to her. And it`s really heartbreaking.
I think that -- I just spoke with the attorney, actually, who is representing the family when we were just back in the green room. And I think it`s really important that he`s saying that the way the hospital handled things, they basically walked in and said your daughter is dead, dead, dead, and we need to move quickly to remove her from life support and they wanted to turn it off on Christmas Eve.
SCHACHER: They wouldn`t call her by name.
ARUTT: The rupture -- I think the emotional rupture and the insensitivity with the way this family was handled really increased, from what their attorney is saying, the pain of this.
PINSKY: OK. So, that`s a very interesting point. In a way we as the caretaker who had been advocating to be able to assert an ethical position, they created this by not really dealing with this family appropriately. So, the caretakers -- Erica, do you agree with that?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100: Actually, what I was going to say what we`re not addressing this is a sensitive topic because we`re talking about when does a life really end. I do hear what you`re saying, Dr. Drew, about what brain dead means, but she is still living. And it`s similar to talking about when does a live begin and abortion. I`m not saying we should go there, but I understand how controversial this is and why it`s such a hot button topic.
And I wouldn`t be surprised if this gets to like the Supreme Court or something, because this is something that`s going to come up again and again. And what I want to say is, as an emphatic person and agreeing with what someone said earlier, my thoughts are with the family and if they want the time to kind of extend it at this place, new beginnings, where they`re going to give her all their effort for a little bit of time, and then they decide, you know, it`s not going anywhere.
I think they should be able to make that decision. Not the hospital, which we have to remember is a business and they`re concerned with how much money does keeping somebody on life support cost? Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars.
ARUTT: This is a business, too, this facility, isn`t it?
PINSKY: Yes, yes, it is.
ARUTT: Insurance doesn`t cover it.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Erica brings up a really interesting point, because also on social media, it`s completely gotten out of control. Yes, it`s polarizing. People are either going to applaud the family or they`re going to be appalled by the family.
But where it`s gone to really dark out of control place, which your previous panel brought up, are these death threats. People are saying that they`re going to go to the very hospital and pull the plug out on their daughter, it`s gotten way out of control. There`s a weird empathy there.
PINSKY: It`s weird. Jenny, where do you think that`s coming from? That`s such a weird impulse.
HUTT: I don`t get it either. Because I would think there only people would want to treat this family with compassion regardless of which side you fall on whether or not the plug should be pulled. Just seems disgusting.
PINSKY: Erica, you know something we don`t?
AMERICA: I just want to say. I think it`s because it`s hitting that same really sensitive spot that abortion does. When is a life fully end, and when does a life fully ends? When does it begin and when does it end? That`s why people are getting so angry.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jennifer?
KEITT: I`m curious, though, what is best for this 13-year-old girl? Because when we`re talking about life, are we really talking about life or are we talking about the sustaining of a body? This is a serious discussion that I had with my family. I don`t want to be left in that state.
PINSKY: Absolutely. I will come back and haunt all of you if you leave me in this state.
KEITT: I agree. I agree.
PINSKY: And here`s what the state is. Your skin breaks down, your joints contract and become locked, you can`t breath, you get aspiration pneumonia.
KEITT: That`s not living.
PINSKY: It`s not living. If you`re going to wake from it, if you do, you wish you hadn`t, but you`re not going to. It doesn`t -- somebody says about miracles in the last block, it`s never happened. It`s never happened. No one has ever come back from brain dead ever! It just hasn`t happened.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And by the way, people, there`s a whole thing Twitter movement about Lazarus and stuff. Two thousand years ago, they had a definition of brain dead? They had ventilators? I`m confused. I don`t understand. Is that what we`re saying?
AMERICA: What does the law say?
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, there needs to be more education, because somebody like me, if I had my daughter lying there on a ventilator.
HUTT: Oh!
SCHACHER: Hold on! Then I see her smile like these parents did, I would think that`s a sign of life. Then I would need somebody like to you pull me aside --
PINSKY: They won`t believe you. Listen, when you do this -- they have a reflex where it looks likes they`re smiling.
ARUTT: That`s where the projection comes in. That`s where the projection comes in.
PINSKY: I want -- this topic is too disturbing and too upsetting. I want to change gears, I want to talk about pot.
HUTT: Of course you do.
PINSKY: I`ll bring you guys back in a few minutes. Yes, I want to get high. Get me relief.
I suddenly have a very -- by the way, look, the way Colorado`s making pot look, it`s getting very enticing everybody. I think maybe --
HUTT: It`s really very weird.
PINSKY: It`s OK to use, buy and sell pot in Colorado. Is that a big mistake or not? As I said, Anderson Cooper will discuss. He`s running a whole series on this.
Later on, viral video of a woman who attacks a rival fan, a kid, this woman is out of control. She`s almost comical. But man, she goes wild. You`ll see that and more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Jenny and I welcome you back.
You can now buy, sell and use marijuana in Colorado for fun or anything else. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baba kush. Is it baba kush or baba kash (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baba kush.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: High times in Colorado.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are able to walk into a store and buy marijuana today. What did that feel like?
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is overjoying. Like to not have to hide it and, you know, be able to use what makes me feel better.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifty-five bucks or so with tax, for an eighth of an ounce that makes five to seven joints.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People get the opportunity to choose the form of recreation, a lot of people in Colorado said they would like to choose cannabis.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Limited supply and very heavy demand.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want someone who thinks it`s no big deal to light up driving down the highway.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want my baby-sitter high on pot.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave the weed smokers alone. Weed`s never killed nobody.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ask yourself, do you want your cab driver to be high on pot?
The ones that are disagreeing are lethargic sitting on the sofa eating chips.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that`s a --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fat and lazy, there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I don`t know, Jenny. I don`t want my baby-sitter on Xanax. I don`t want her drinking alcohol. I put pot on the list, too but I assume being legal or illegal does not determine whether or not my baby-sitter is using substances.
HUTT: Right. That`s totally true, Dr. Drew. But I have to tell you, marijuana can be pretty darn powerful. I inadvertently ate cookies laced with marijuanas once not knowing I had done that and I thought I was dying. So --
PINSKY: You`re what we call a lightweight.
Back with us Segun, Jason, Jillian and joining us, Anderson Cooper, host of "AC360".
Anderson, you were covering this all week. I don`t doubt the power of cannabis in an overdose that gets inadvertently consumed.
HUTT: It was!
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: Accidentally eat cookies.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: I didn`t know.
PINSKY: What are you learning -- what we going to learn this week in a story you`re going to tell, Anderson?
COOPER: We`re looking at the business of marijuana in in Colorado. It`s a huge business as you were seeing in that report. I mean, there are already supply problems. There`s so much demand and the prices are pretty high at some of these places where you can now buy it recreationally.
Remember, we`re not talking about medicinal. We`re talking about legal recreational use in the state of Colorado, which is a big change.
PINSKY: So funny to me that people don`t realize that a plant that people smoke to have a psychoactive effect is going to get picked up by big business. Oh, wait, I think that`s tobacco we`re talking. No, it`s pot.
So, there`s going to be big tobacco, big pot, just the way we had big tobacco, don`t you think?
COOPER: You know, it`s very possible. I mean, obviously, look, this is going to be a big business in the states where it is legal. So I do think businessmen are going to get involved. I talked to the governor of Montana where they legalized medical marijuana earlier.
And he said there were legitimate businesspeople getting involved in this because of the opportunity.
PINSKY: Jason, what do you think?
JASON ELLIS, RADIO HOST: I can`t believe Jen thought she was going to die from eating one little cookie. What`s the big deal?
HUTT: I ate three big cookies.
ELLIS: Accidentally?
HUTT: I didn`t know they had pot in them. I thought they were just chocolate chip cookies. I`m a moron.
ELLIS: You can`t die from it. It`s mellow. It`s no big deal. Everybody knows that.
I don`t know why -- the big problem is the whole thing with the if you drive or baby-it is, what about drinking and -- it has nothing to do with it. It`s the same thing with religion with what if gay people marry? What if a bird marries a taco? What`s got that to do with the argument?
PINSKY: Yes, I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jason, the other thing that bothers me and Segun, I`ll let you answer this, cannabis is addictive for some people. Alcohol is addictive for some people. Just because something`s addictive, does it have to be illegal? It`s that what we`re saying, because then we`ve got some problem with many, many other pharmaceutical agents.
Segun, what do you think?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You seem, my biggest problem is that weed smokers in Colorado are complaining about the price of weed, like, OK, sot the best liquor -- so there`s a beer guy in Hollywood who says it best, name is Bobby Hooper. If you want to buy a six pack of beer that`s dirt, it will do the trick. But if you want the good stuff, you`re going to pay a little bit more.
So, if they want to go back buying it on the corner, fine. But if you want that good bubblegum kush, you`re going to have to come out of your back pocket. I like scotch. I pay dollar for Johnnie Walker Blue because it costs more. If you want the good stuff, you`ll pay more.
PINSKY: Jason, you and Segun are going to go out afterwards, and I don`t know what you`re going to do, but enjoy yourselves.
ODUOLOWU: We`re kindred spirits.
PINSKY: My question -- I got something for Anderson, though.
Anderson, I think I finally got through to you about mixing prescription medication and alcohol. Here`s how I know. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The only time I take Ambien usually is when I`m on a flight. And I learned, Dr. Drew told me that you`re not supposed to take an Ambien --
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: If you want to buy a six pack of beer that`s dirt, you`re going to do the trick. But if you want that good stuff, you`re going to pay a little bit more. So, if they want to go back buying it on the corner, fine! But if you want that good bubblegum cush, you`re going to have to come out of your pocket. I like scotch. I pay dollar for Johnnie Walker because it`s cost more. If you want the good stuff, you`ll pay more.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Jason, you and Segun are going to go out afterwards, and I don`t know what you`re going to do, but enjoy yourselves.
ODUOLOWU: We`re kindred spirits.
PINSKY: I got some -- Anderson, I think I finally got through to you about mixing prescription medication and alcohol. Here`s how I know. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, AC360: The only time I take Ambien usually is when I`m on a flight. And I learned -- Dr. Drew told me this year, you`re not supposed to take an Ambien and a red wine on a flight.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- a prescription drug and alcohol?
COOPER: Well, I know but --
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But my question, Anderson, is I`m actually more concerned about Ambien and alcohol than I would be about pot. And yet, there`s all this energy around pot. It`s so funny to me how people categorize these different substances.
COOPER: Well, yes. I mean, prescription drugs are a much bigger problem. And if you look at --
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: -- emergency room visits. I mean --
PINSKY: Oh -- and deaths.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: One interesting thing is I went to a marijuana clinic -- medical marijuana clinic in California --
PINSKY: Did you accidentally take a cookie, too?
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: You were looking for a chipotle?
COOPER: That`s right. I was actually doing a report on it. There`s video evidence of this, but I was surprised at all the different forms of this. I think a lot of parents out there who may be concerned about, you know, their kids are thinking that it`s all joints. I mean, there is now a gelato ice cream with --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Even the stuff like Listerine breath mints you can get now.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yes. Segun.
ODUOLOWU: You have so many different forms of alcohol that -- you can buy vodka, gin, why wouldn`t it be any different with weed and why are they making such a big deal about it? They`ve obviously legalized it so someone is making a profit.
PINSKY: Yes. I`m going to have a guy come in next who was an adviser to the Obama administration at one point. He was saying that Colorado is sort of endorsing, sort of promoting this rather than just legalizing it and that`s an interesting conversation. Do I still have Jillian? I see her on my panel here, but I don`t see her on air. Is she still available to me?
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Jillian loves weed, bring her back on!
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: OK. Jillian --
ELLIS: I mean allegedly.
(CROSSTALK)
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No. No, I so agree with Segun and Jason Ellis. I did inhale intentionally when I was a teenager and I ate at Taco Bell the entire night. And so, I said I don`t want a fat ass. I am not going to start smoking weed. But, I do know many people that have prescriptions here in california.
I agree, there`s so many different types of alcohol. We promote alcohol in commercials, Dr. Drew. Think about beer commercials. Of course, why wouldn`t Colorado --
PINSKY: But I think what -- do we want another substance out there that we have to kind of worry about and deal with? And you know, this is our system. People decided --
BARBERIE: Well, it`s out there already.
PINSKY: And by the way, the medicalization of it, I think, is a sham. I think that`s a mistake. So, my profession is used as a distribution system for -- that`s a silly thing, I think. Anderson, I will join you --
BARBERIE: But also, even for cancer patients --
PINSKY: No. Doctors shouldn`t be able to prescribe anything they want including cannabis. I`m just saying those clinics and stuff we have are really distribution system. Let`s be fair. But doctors should absolutely be able to prescribe cannabis any time they want for a patient. If you`re -- there`s a million reason they should be able to use it, and they can in --
ODUOLOWU: Would you prescribe it, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I have prescribed it. Are you kidding me? Of course, I have.
ELLIS: I prescribed it to myself last night.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Hang on. I got to go.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And of course, you can watch Anderson, "AC 360" every night 8:00 p.m. eastern time and be sure to catch "AC 360" later. That is on right after us, 10:00 p.m. on CNN. Anderson, thank you so much.
I`m going to bring back in the behavior bureau to look at potential problems created by Colorado`s new pot laws. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stigma is lifting further. It really feels as if it`s much more accepted now.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom that it`s an unbelievable feeling to be able to buy something legally.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To actually get to the day and watch people go in and buy their weed, that was satisfaction right there.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overjoying like to not have to hide it and, you know, be able to use what makes me feel better.
UNIDENTIFIED UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real drug problems, the heroin, you know, all the other drugs, leave the weed smokers alone. Weed`s never killed anybody, you know? Alcohol does way more damage than weed, you know? Leave the pot smokers alone, focus on the real problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, but, Jenny, I think people wonder whether or not we need another problem. That`s sort of the argument, I think. Back with Jenny and our "Behavior Bureau," Cheryl, Erica, Sam, and Jennifer. And a reminder, you can tweet us right now at @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau, discussing the legal use of cannabis, marijuana, pot, in Colorado.
Better or worse? Is it a good thing for the pot debate, and if it doesn`t improve the pot debate, I wonder, Erica America, whether it`s sick or sad.
ERICA AMERICA, RADIO PERSONALITY: I think it`s a good thing, I really do. I mean, I think it takes a huge burden off the legal system so they can concentrate on more important issues than like we saw that young -- you know, people who just smoke pot, and you know, it works for them for whatever reason. Whether I agree with it or not, that`s a different story.
But you made a great point, Dr. Drew, before saying that other legal things like food, gambling, alcohol, they`re addictive as well. So, just because marijuana is now a legal thing, it`s also addictive. So, you have to just like parents still need to educate their children --
PINSKY: Oh, sure. Absolutely. And by the way, it`s not sacrilege to say something`s addictive. And to call it some addictive, it`s not implying that it should be illegal. Those are different phenomenon. Jennifer, you agree?
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO HOST & LIFE COACH: No. I`m going to be the only prude in America. I`m the only one who`s going to hold the line and say, no, we don`t need something else to have to deal with, another way to check out of our relationships, another way to relax, another way to make it happen. I just do not agree with this.
(CROSSTALK)
KEITT: -- with my kids, my husband, everybody.
PINSKY: Yes. Listen, I`ve got somebody who agrees with on you the phone. He`s the former drug policy adviser to the Obama administration.
KEITT: Finally.
PINSKY: He wrote a very good book called "Reefer Sanity: Seven Great Myths About Marijuana." All right. Kevin, you say they`re not just regulating cannabis, they`re promoting it, which, you know, it is pretty enticing, isn`t it?
VOICE OF KEVIN SABET, AUTHOR: Yes. I mean, thanks for having me on, Dr. Drew and to the panel. I mean, we`re really creating today`s version of big tobacco. And what I mean by that is, we now have an industry, marijuana industry, which will be profiting off of addiction.
And as you know, Drew, none of the addictive industries out there including gambling, as you mentioned, or tobacco, make money off the occasional user, the person that just wants to relax once a month after, you know, a hard month`s work and smoke a joint. These industries rely on addiction for profit. They have to have people use dangerously regularly and heavily in order for them to profit.
This is why the tobacco industry hid the science about tobacco for 80 years because they knew that when the science was exposed, they were in trouble. This is the same issue with marijuana today. We now have multimillion dollar investor groups that are investing in this new industry. They need kids to get hooked.
We already have companies in Colorado themselves that are saying, you know, our prime customer will be the high school senior and that came out to the other day. So I just -- you know, I get that people don`t want folks locked up in jail or prison for low levels of use, and frankly, I don`t either. But it`s one thing to say that and it`s a very different to say then OK, therefore, we should go ahead and legalize it which is in turn promoting an industry.
PINSKY: But Sam, I think young people, though, have sort of a different take on all of this, do you agree?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I do agree. For one, I mean, I look back at my high school experience, my college experience, whether pot then was legal or not wasn`t going to deter me from trying it or not. Look at alcohol. I mean, people were easily using alcohol and marijuana, one was legal, one was not. But I have a question for Kevin.
Kevin, what is your stance on the high taxation for recreational marijuana in Colorado, because I know that the argument is that they`ll have more regulation, but I think the exact opposite is going to happen where it`s going to actually cause the local growers to sell outside of their house or in their house and then essentially you have weed on the black market once again.
PINSKY: Kevin.
SABET: Well, you`re going to have weed on the black market. And you know, it`s actually a great question. It`s a catch 22. On the one hand, they put taxes on it thinking that, you know, we`ll be able to get some money for this for our schools, et cetera and that black market will be there. They lower it so that there`s hardly any taxes, and then it becomes so cheap.
And we do know that price drives use. In other words, when things are cheaper, more people use it again. That`s why the tobacco lobby makes sure there`s no increases and taxes as long as they can help it --
PINSKY: Kevin, I`m going to interrupt you for a second. I`ve got limited time here. I just want to ask Cheryl a quick question. From your -- do you have mental health concerns? Are you fearful you`re going to see more of one thing or another in the clinicalworld?
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that there are lots of ways that people can self-medicate and not deal with their feelings. But I actually have a question for you, Dr. drew, as a father of three college-aged kids, how have you handled this with them? How have you brought up this issue with your kids?
PINSKY: I just told them that I don`t allow illegal activities. And if they choose to break the law, it`s going to be on them. So, law has actually helped me with that. I would also urge -- anybody that smokes pot and feels that they love it, they really love it, that`s a worrisome relationship.
That`s a specific kind of reaction to the chemical. In my experience, people that absolutely love it tend to keep using it every day. You`re shaking your head, Jenny. Did you love it when you had that cookie?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: No, I hated it.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Jennifer, no, Sam, yes. I`m seeing the poll across the panel here.
(LAUGHTER)
ARUTT: Did anybody see girls from Shoshana (ph) accidentally like smoked crack? That`s what Jenny reminded me of when she inadvertently --
(CROSSTALK)
ARUTT: They were chocolate chip cookies.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`ve got important man on the phone here. He`s trying to say something. Go ahead, Kevin, please.
SABET: No. What I was saying, Dr. Drew, is that there is such a disconnect between the public`s understanding of pot because most people they`ve used -- and we all know this, true for most drugs, in fact. They use it once or twice. They stop using it or they really are occasional users at the small percentages, you know, of users become really heavy users.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But especially true with pot, though.
SABET: But the issue with pot is about one in six kids who try it at age 16, who ever try it, will become addicted. And the point is that scientific truth and the science behind the IQ loss, the driving accidents, the mental health problems, there`s such a disconnect between that and the public`s understanding. And I think the public would be shocked to know that the AMA is totally against this.
PINSKY: Let`s be really clear that we do -- although there`s limited harm to adults, we do know that to adolescent developing brain, the harm is substantial and potentially permanent. The science on this looks like it is permanent. It`s a grave concern. Jennifer, what do you feel now?
KEITT: Please do not use weed! Don`t smoke weed!
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I`m afraid that`s not going to get this --
KEITT: I know. I know. Whether it`s legal or not.
PINSKY: But Kevin, I love our system. I love that people can change laws if they want to. And it`s what the people want this and we`re going to be dealing with it, that`s for sure. I`m glad you`re out there trying to clarify.
SABET: Well, I appreciate it. I think really that people don`t have the full facts. And we have these campaigns in that won Colorado and Washington. Proponents spent, you know, like $7 million to the opponents zero in both of those states and it passed. And I think people see this as a quick fix to our school system because we can get taxes.
I mean, does anybody here on this panel think that we`ve solved our public education system with the lottery? Because that`s what we were supposed to do with the lottery. The last time I checked, our public education system needed fixing, you know?
PINSKY: I`ve got to go, guys. Kevin, I got to go. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it. This story -- I`m fascinated to see how it plays out and we`ll continue to watch it very carefully.
Next up, football freak out. I know it was a big game tonight, though, we have a viral video of a woman diving into a pack of rival fans at the sugar bowl. She goes absolutely nuts. You have to see this. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are back with Jenny, Sam, Jason and Jillian. Now, this mother of three seen here on a YouTube video is America`s newest viral video star courtesy of her behavior at this year`s Sugar Bowl. An Alabama fan apparently confronted her -- no, no. She was confronted by an Oklahoma fan. She was taunting her six-year-old son or something. She was pulled back.
But when the man reportedly curses at her, she goes berserk. Take a look at this. She dives over a row of spectators, starts throwing punches and kicking.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: She admits she was drinking but not drunk, not drunk, mind you. I think maybe she had one of Jenny`s cookies. In fact, if she had one of Jenny`s cookies, we would not be seeing this behavior.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: So, the question, Sam, first to you, is this an overprotective mom? Is this an alcohol-relating incident --
SCHACHER: Overprotective? Listen, Dr. Drew, first of all, there`s two sides to every story, and then there`s the truth, but I don`t think there is anything that these boys or college kids did that would warrant this mom to jump on them all MMA style.
PINSKY: Hold on. Jillian, you agree with Sam?
BARBERIE: Well, you know what? I covered three Super Bowls for the NFL on Fox. And, if you`re telling me that there are passionate fans out there who happen to maybe hit the sauce a little at the tailgating party, yes, this is very common.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Very common?
BARBERIE: I think she was being overprotective, but she was obviously buzzed.
PINSKY: Jason, I`m looking at the bottom of her Prada shoes as she jumps over these guys. And like I said, I think if she`d gotten her hands on one of Jenny`s chocolate chip cookie, we wouldn`t have seen this behavior.
ELLIS: You can`t do bad things to moms. Moms are allowed free punches to anybody`s face whenever they want. If you`re going to spark off (ph) to a mom, everybody should hold them down and the mom should do whatever she wants. That`s the free deal (ph) with mom.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: I`m backing the moms.
SCHACHER: A terrible example for her kid. She had two young daughters there. Her son --
ELLIS: I don`t care.
(CROSSTALK)
BARBERIE: The guys were actually acting out as well --
(CROSSTALK)
BARBERIE: The boys were throwing bottles. They were being disruptive as well.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I heard Jason. What I`m going to do is I`m going to bring my wife who`s a mom over to your radio show and me and --
ELLIS: She can punch me in the face.
PINSKY: That`s what`s going to happen.
ELLIS: Everybody can punch me in the face. Everybody.
PINSKY: Instead of that device you have where you monitor the intensity of the punch, we`ll just use your face.
(LAUGHTER)
ELLIS: Yes. Use your face. You can kick me in the face.
BARBERIE: If Jason attacked your son, I know your wife, Susan, would jump on him and attack him.
PINSKY: -- step outside of that little studio and just have at. He said go ahead. Up next --
ELLIS: I fight for moms.
PINSKY: -- when you tape firecrackers to your face, Jason, I imagine you`ve tried that once or twice. You`ll see that after this. And remember, you can find us anytime on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. We`ll be right back. You got to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Samantha, Jason, and Jillian. More questionable behavior caught on tape. What could possibly go wrong when a young man tapes firecrackers to his mouth? Watch this tape live leak tape posted on YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUMBLING)
(SCREAMING)
(COUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jason, help me understand this. I have trouble understanding the motivation. I was a young male once, too, but help me.
ELLIS: Look, I understand, turning to me, it looks like it would make sense, but that guy might be one of the dumbest people I`ve ever seen on computers or television that I watched.
(LAUGHTER)
HUTT: Yes.
(CROSSTALK) BARBERIE: At least he just taped it to his mouth. It could have been worse. He could have taped it to another body part.
PINSKY: There you go. That --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Don`t suggest it or a young male will try it. But you get to punch Jason after this, so don`t worry, you`ll be fine. Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: OK. With YouTube, though, like YouTube challenges now are the new "Jackass," Dr. Drew. We saw it with the condom snorting challenge. This is where thousands of kids were snorting condoms so they can pull it out of their mouth and then hold it in front of the camera victoriously.
PINSKY: I`m sorry. I didn`t see that.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: My girlfriend does that every now and then to get me going.
(LAUGHTER)
HUTT: Oh, stop it!
PINSKY: Finish up, Jen.
SCHACHER: Wow.
HUTT: Oh. And then, there`s the cinnamon challenge, too, which a lot of kids were trying to take a teaspoon of cinnamon and then they cough it and inhale it and they go into the E.R. So, it`s kind of like -- believe me, I don`t think this is going to become a trend. I think this kid is not the brightest bulb in the pack, but, there are a lot of these dumb challenges on YouTube.
PINSKY: And Jason, as you know, my partner, Mike Catwood, did the cinnamon challenge successfully.
HUTT: He did?
ELLIS: He`s very stupid.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: All right. Guys, thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Today, apparently, the most depressing day of the year. Are you buying it? "Last Call" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for the "Last Call." Reminder about our show tomorrow, we have a national exclusive with Jodi Arias` cellmate, Jenny. Jodi Arias` cellmate is going to speak for the first time.
HUTT: Awesome.
PINSKY: She`s going to tell us about sharing a small cell, toilet sink, bunk bed with the infamous Jodi Arias.
All right. Now, let me move on to some research from Britain. They call this day the most depressing day of the year. Holidays are over, days are short and dark, there`s guilt over failed resolutions already and those inclined to divorce actually do so in early January. Jenny, are you depressed?
HUTT: No, I`m doing all right, Dr. Drew. Thank you for asking. I`m OK.
PINSKY: I understand you actually -- Speaking of those challenges that Sam was talking about, you actually attempted the saltine challenge?
HUTT: I did, indeed. Yes. A couple of year ago. It`s on YouTube. I just tweeted it.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Fair enough. Thanks, Jenny. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time. The next -- up next is "50 States, 50 Stories." That is up right now. See you next time.
END
