Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Dangerous Deep Freeze; Interview with Terri Chung; Former Defense Secretary's Revealing Memoir; Gone To Pot: Will Colorado See Rise In Marijuana Addiction Rates?; One Thousand Plus FBI Documents Stolen In 1971 Break In: Some Exposed Spying On U.S. Anti-War Activists
Aired January 7, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Don, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone. Tonight the big chill and the big standstill. Canceled flights in some parts of the country slowing down travel all over the country. We're going to show you who is getting grounded and when things will start moving again.
And later our series "Gone to Pot." And the big question, is marijuana actually addictive? Dr. Drew Pinsky joins us. So does a neuroscientist who says that all drugs, all of them, should be decriminalized.
We begin tonight, though, with the cold. Below freezing temperatures in all 50 states today, even parts of Florida and Hawaii. It is truly epic. More than a little eerie. Take a look. The Chicago lakefront looks more like it did in the ice age than even the normally cold winter there.
Here are some time lapse video, Lake Michigan freezing over. They had to call in a Coast Guard cutter to make parts of it safe for navigation.
Outside Minneapolis, a traffic camera captures a pickup truck sliding out of control and off an overpass -- check that out -- plunging more than 70 feet on to a frozen pond. Looking at this, it's a wonder anyone survived. The driver who was alone in the car did however.
Across big chunks of the country things ran the gamut through dangerous to inconvenient to just plain cold. She has been ever since it got that way.
Stephanie Elam is stuck outside in it. She is in Minneapolis tonight where it's slightly warmer than the last time we checked in with her.
Stephanie, I want to show our viewers what you were doing last night. Because it was so cold last night you could throw -- I'm obsessed with this. You could throw up a -- glass of hot water and it would instantly turn into snow. I just find that remarkable. I've never seen that before.
It's not -- it's not that cold tonight, correct? STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. And we were actually going to try to thrill you beyond your greatest dreams, Anderson, and do more of it. We went out and bought this big old fertilizer thing so we could do hot boiling water like continuously. It's too hot, though. All things relative, it's too warm. It's still cold. But it has to be super cold for that to work.
So we've been trying it for the last hour or so and that has warmed up. I can actually bear a couple of minutes out here with my ears exposed. So that tells you, too, that it's a little bit better.
COOPER: Now how -- I mean, how are you guys dealing with this? I know you and your crew can kind of thaw out in the satellite truck between shots but how are residents in Minneapolis -- how are they coping?
ELAM: Well, that's the thing. You look at some of the shelters, we stopped by a shelter yesterday. They had a record number of people who stayed there. There's some power outages. People also dealing with pipes freezing because if you don't keep those pipes above I think 50 degrees then they can freeze and burst.
Also many cases of frost bite in the area. A lot of people, though, still doing what they normally do. I was standing in the same place at 5:00 this morning and a man rode by me on a unicycle on the icy bridge here. I couldn't believe it.
I saw another woman walking in Ugg boots and no tights, just a mini skirt and just was walking in downtown Minneapolis. So they see things a little bit differently here as the idea of cold. But it's still very serious for people who may be elderly. If you take a look at people who may be needy and also when you take a look at the pets. So still a lot of eyes on that. But it is definitely warming up -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Well, that's some good news for there. Stephanie, again, thank you. Out all day in that temperature. Not an easy thing to do.
No matter how much boiling water you've turned into snow out there over the last couple of days it just can't compare to what nature has been dumping on upstate New York where moist air blowing off the great lakes could turn into as much as three feet of misery by tomorrow.
Pamela Brown is outside Buffalo, land of lake-effect snow where blizzard warnings are up.
Now I understand Buffalo is actually under the first blizzard warning since '93. It snows up there all the time, though, doesn't it?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Anderson. In fact this is the fourth blizzard warning here in Buffalo in the past four decades. It's surprising when you consider how used to Buffalo residents are dealing with this winter weather. And that's a big reason why there have only been four blizzard warnings here. There's a certain threshold that has to be met here in Buffalo for to it make the cut to be considered a blizzard warning. Normally there's a combination of factors. The gusting winds and the snow, the heavy snow in order for a storm to be considered a blizzard.
In other cities it's much easier to meet that threshold. Buffalo it's very different because of how -- used to this weather they are. That just tells you how serious and how dangerous this blizzard is here right now.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, up to three feet of snow possibly outside Buffalo. What kind of precautions are people taking at this point?
BROWN: There are several precautions. I mean, this is a ghost town. People are hunkering down. We're not seeing any cars on the road. The businesses are closed. In fact, the Sabres hockey game was canceled tonight, which is a big deal. It hasn't been canceled here in Buffalo in 13 years.
Also at least five major thoroughfares have been shut down partially. And officials have told us that they've had to rescue stranded drivers, at least 50 stranded drivers, on one of those thoroughfares. And officials have actually been using snowmobiles to help rescue some of the passengers because it's simply too dangerous to drive their own vehicles here on the roads. There's actually also been flood warnings because of broken water mains due to how cold it is.
So we're really dealing with the trifecta, Anderson, of the biting cold, the ferocious winds, and of course the snow.
COOPER: It's just -- it's unbelievable. Pamela Brown, appreciate it. Thanks very much. Get warm.
And in case you're trying to make a getaway be prepared to wait. The vast airline network that lets you get almost anywhere from almost anywhere is great until there's a hitch in one major city. Then another and another.
More on that now from Rosa Flores.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Airline ticket counter lines stretch for hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if anyone actually knows where any of the lines go. Like or what they're for.
FLORES: More than 10,000 canceled flights in the last three days have turned airports across the country into temporary makeshift hotels. Travelers resting on cots or on the floor, anything to pass the time until takeoff.
More than 4500 flights were canceled Monday and more than 3,000 flights have been canceled today, according to flightaware.com.
ROBERTA REEVES, JETBLUE CUSTOMER: We're supposed to be in the Bahamas on Saturday. They want us to now land there on Wednesday.
FLORES: Adding to the travel issues, a move by JetBlue to cancel more than 500 flights Monday and Tuesday at four major northeast airports. The company blamed new federal pilot rest rules and a weekend of bad winter weather.
This afternoon, JetBlue said they were back on schedule. However, they still have thousands of displaced customers.
SHELLY BUDHAN, JETBLUE CUSTOMER: They're telling me I have to leave here on the 10th, I'm like, I have no family here. The money I came with on vacation I spent it all. What am I supposed to do here from the 6th until the 10th?
FLORES: In the Midwest, heavy snow and ice drifting onto railways brought three separate trains to a halt Monday afternoon with more than 500 passengers on board.
MARC MAGLIARI, AMTRAK SPOKESMAN: The train encountered heavy snow and drifting in a trench-like area on the BNSF railway. And even with all that mass and 8,000 horsepower, we couldn't simply plow through it.
FLORES: Passengers said they never lost heat and Amtrak provided passengers an extra meal. But the extended delay was hard on some.
LUKE CHARBONNEAU, AMTRAK PASSENGER: So we originally got stuck at 3:00 p.m. last -- yesterday. And we didn't get rescued until 5:00 a.m. when they towed us into Princeton, Illinois, and then we bussed into the city.
JEANETTE FLOYD, AMTRAK PASSENGER: I can't feel my butt because it's just not there anymore. Just sitting for literally 26 hours is awful.
COOPER: A lot of miserable people.
Rosa Flores joins us now from New York's LaGuardia airport.
So I understand things are improving for travelers at LaGuardia but it's still pretty bad elsewhere.
FLORES: You're absolutely right. Anytime that you have the words "cots" and "airport" in a sentence it's going to be bad. And then of course, think of all of those JetBlue passengers that are stuck around the country. And you know that they're not having a good day.
Now for all of the travelers who are watching us from the airport, and a lot of them do, think -- think about this. I checked the misery map at flightaware.com and the most miserable place when it comes to air travel is O'Hare International Airport in Chicago.
So, Anderson, I am counting my blessings that I'm at LaGuardia tonight.
COOPER: I feel for all those people waiting for flights. Rosa, appreciate it.
Now the man who gets to geek out on this stuff from the comfort of the Weather Center in Atlanta, Chad Myers joins us now.
So what's the latest, Chad, on this?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, it's still cold. But, Stephanie, right now, Stephanie Elam in Minneapolis feels 40 degrees warmer than she felt yesterday. So that's good. I mean, that's something great about this.
There are a couple of things you can do to make your life a little bit better, make your car run a little bit better, make your home run a little bit better or you keep yourself a little bit warmer. One of the biggest things you ever want to do is to keep the washer fluid in your car full. Because when a spray ahead of you gets on your windshield you're going to have to get it off. If you use regular washer fluid it's going to freeze on that windshield and you're not going to see a thing.
Look for the little number that says minus 20 degrees because that will help you out. That will keep you safe and wash away some of that ice. You can't even buy that stuff in Georgia. It's illegal. You have to go up to the northeast in order to get that stuff.
Sixteen degrees below zero right now in Green Bay, 10 below in Chicago and 23 degrees below zero now as we work our way into Detroit and into Buffalo. There will be more snow in Buffalo. I saw Pamela Brown. Wasn't snowing a lot. But there still will be probably another foot there across parts of upstate New York.
And it is still coming down in many, many spots. Watertown will probably pick up, no kidding, five feet of snow. Our Pamela Brown right there, right in that little band of snow just in the south town of Buffalo.
It was 53 yesterday in Atlanta. It was 79 in Tampa. It's now 49 in Tampa and half that in Atlanta.
COOPER: Wow. Chad, appreciate it. Thanks very much for the update.
Let us know what you think. Follow me on Twitter @andersoncooper, tweet us using hash tag "AC360."
Coming up next, why Dennis Rodman is in North Korea and why he flipped out in basically an incoherent rant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: No, no, no, no, I'm just saying -- now all of you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't give a rat's ass what the hell you think. I'm saying to you, look at these guys here. Look at them.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: We're going to show what led up to that outburst and talk to a woman who takes issue with it. Her brother is being held captive in North Korea. And basically Dennis Rodman kind of indicated maybe he had done something actually wrong to deserve being held in North Korea.
It was a bizarre, bizarre rant. We'll show you more of it and we'll talk to her about her brother and what the -- with the latest on him.
And later President Obama's former defense secretary, Robert Gates, throws his former boss under the bus. What Robert -- what Gates wrote about President Obama's management style and more in a new book. We'll tell you tonight.
COOPER: Welcome back. Well, North Korea may be a nuclear power. But today it was former NBA star Dennis Rodman having a meltdown. He's in Pyongyang leading a dozen players in his latest attempt to basketball diplomacy between the West and the dictator he calls his friend, Kim Jong-Un.
Kim Jong-Un, you'll recall, recently had his uncle killed. And he's also held an 85-year-old U.S. veteran captor for week and has been holding another American Kenneth Bae for more than a year. He also has more than an estimated 100,000 people in concentration camps in that country.
The meltdown came this morning when "NEW DAY's" Chris Cuomo asked him about Mr. Bae's treatment.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: You do have a relationship with this man. You've said it many times. We've seen it demonstrated --
CUOMO: -- for whatever reason.
CUOMO: Are you going to take an opportunity if you get it --
CUOMO: -- to speak up for the family of Kenneth Bae and to say, let us know why this man is being held? That this is wrong, that he is sick.
If you can help them, Dennis, will you take the opportunity?
RODMAN: Watch this. The one thing about politics, Kenneth Bae did one thing, if you understand -- I got it, guys. If you understand what Kenneth Bae did.
RODMAN: Do you understand what he did --
CUOMO: What did he do? You tell me.
RODMAN: -- in this country?
CUOMO: Well, you tell me. What he do?
RODMAN: No, no, no, you tell me. You tell me. Why is he held captive?
CUOMO: They haven't released any charges. They haven't released any reason.
CHARLES SMITH, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Well, listen.
RODMAN: Let me do this, I would love to speak on this.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
RODMAN: You know, you got 10 guys here -- 10 guys here that have left their families, left their damn families to help this country in a sports venture. Ten guys, all these guys here. Do anyone understand that?
CUOMO: We do. And we appreciate that. And we wish them well with cultural exchange.
RODMAN: No, no. I'm saying -- I don't give -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't give a rat's ass what the hell you think, I'm saying to you, look at these guys here. Look at them.
CUOMO: Yes, but, Dennis, don't put it on them. Don't use them as an excuse for the behavior that you're -- that you're putting on yourself.
RODMAN: They came here. They came here.
CUOMO: You just basically were saying that Kenneth Bae did something wrong.
SMITH: But listen --
CUOMO: We don't even know what the charges are. Don't use these guys as a shield for you, Dennis.
SMITH: You can -- listen. Listen. Listen.
RODMAN: They're no shield, I got it. Let me do this. Let me -- let me. I'm going to tell you one thing. People around the world -- around the world -- I'm going to do one thing. You're a guy behind the mike right now. We are the guys here do one thing. We have to go back to America and take the abuse. Do you help me take the abuse we're going to take? Do you, sir, let me know -- we're going to get it. But guess what though? One day, one day this dude is going to open --
COOPER: Well, the White House today refused to dignify Rodman's remarks with a comment.
Terri Chung joins us now only on 360. She is Kenneth Bae's sister.
Terri, you heard this really kind of incoherent rant of Dennis Rodman's comments about your brother. What did you think seeing that?
TERRI CHUNG, SISTER OF KENNETH BAE: We were shocked and just outraged. We couldn't believe our ears. You know, he was in a position to do some good and to help advocate for Kenneth. He refused to do so. But then instead he has chosen to hurl these outrageous accusations against Kenneth. He clearly doesn't know anything about Kenneth, about his case. And so we were appalled by that.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, he obviously -- first of all he seemed to imply that Kenneth had done something wrong. And then when actually challenged to say what he believes your brother had done, he deflected and changed the topic. Because clearly he has no idea himself.
I get the sense he hasn't done any research at all about North Korea, certainly about your brother's case, about all the more than 100,000 people estimated to be held in concentration camps in North Korea.
It seems like this guy doesn't really know anything about the country that he claims to be going to to help open things up.
CHUNG: I think that was abundantly clear. He -- you know, this isn't some game. This is about a person's life. You know, a father of three, a son and a brother and a husband. And here he sits. And Dennis -- Dennis Rodman, he's not a diplomat. He said so himself. And he's definitely not in a position to pass judgment on Kenneth Bae.
COOPER: And was in a position if, you know, speaking one-on-one to the man who runs this country, who holds the future of your brother in his hands, you know, to use his position of alleged friendship to say, look, just, you know, do something solid, release this man. There's no reason to hold him.
I know you recently got a phone call from Kenneth. What did he say? How was he?
CHUNG: He said he was hanging in there. But it was very difficult. You know, this was the second Christmas we have spent without Kenneth. And, you know, his children were with us. And, you know, we were -- his absence was so keenly felt. And it was great to hear his voice. We hadn't heard his voice since May. And it was the first time his children have spoken to him. So it was very emotional and difficult.
COOPER: And he's still in the hospital? CHUNG: Yes. He's still being held in the hospital in Pyongyang. And, you know, he's alone and ailing in the DPRK by himself. He's an American citizen. And it's really heart-breaking that somebody was -- who was in a position to help a fellow American refused to do so. And then continued to do some more harm than good.
COOPER: There is a chance at this point that Rodman or any of these other players, if they did meet with the leader of North Korea, they might be able to at least now kind of make up for some of the ridiculous comments that he made and try to do something on your brother's behalf.
What would you -- if any of them happen to be watching this broadcast and this show is seen there, what would you want to say to any of the members of this team who are there about speaking out on your brother's behalf?
CHUNG: I would say that, you know, Kenneth is a father of three, an American citizen who is there legally working to provide for his family as a tour operator. He had no ill intentions, never. And he has definitely not tried to overthrow the government. So we would ask that, you know, Americans need to speak up and to remember Kenneth Bae. If you're in any kind of position to advocate for him, please do so.
And to plead with the North Korean leaders to release this American who's been held for 14 months. And he's the only one that has served time in the labor camp until his health failed. So we would urgently ask for help to advocate for his behalf of amnesty.
COOPER: The only way -- yes, the only way that this guy Rodman can at all begin to even kind of make up for the ridiculous things he said is to at least try to do something on your brother's behalf, if nothing else.
So, Terri, I hope this helps. Appreciate you being with us. And we continue to think and be very concerned about the condition of your brother. And we'll continue to follow it. Thank you very much, Terri.
CHUNG: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: For more on the story of course and others you can go to CNN.com.
Up next, a scathing critique of President Obama from someone who was in his cabinet, a man who really seemed to have a public face of silence over the time he served for President Obama. Bombshells now from former defense secretary Robert Gates' new memoir ahead.
Also later tonight, is marijuana physically addictive? Does it lead to doing other harder drugs? Depends on really who you ask. We're going to hear from different sides coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: In "Raw Politics" tonight, a really fascinating tale of suspicion and distrust from inside President Obama's own cabinet. And that's just one part of former Defense Secretary Robert Gates' new memoir in which he writes about President Obama's flagging enthusiasm for his own Afghanistan war strategy.
In the book "Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary of War," Gates writes that in 2011 the president expressed frustration over his Afghan policy. According to Gates, that included doubts about both General David Petraeus and Harmid Karzai.
Gates worked under President Obama for two years. The book is coming out, of course, as the president is still commander-in-chief.
Our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto joins me now.
This is really scathing criticism that's been reported so far coming out of this book, particularly from a guy whose public face was one of always sort of calm, sort of trying to kind of bridge the partisan divide.
I want to read what Gates says about President Obama and the war in Afghanistan. He says, "As I sat there I thought, the president doesn't trust his commander, can't stand Karzai, doesn't believe it his own strategy and doesn't consider the war to be his. For him it's all about getting out."
Is this unprecedented where you have a current commander-in-chief being criticized by his -- the guy who just left office, his defense secretary?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Very close adviser of sitting president. And even goes further on Afghanistan policy, leveling what is really the worst charge you could level against a commander-in-chief, and that is that he sent those troops into Afghanistan knowing that the strategy was going to fail.
His words, Gates, that he was skeptical if not outright convinced the strategy would fail. And that's a very strong thing to say about a president putting those lives in danger. Of course many soldiers lost their lives here. This is something that we've already heard pushback from even inside the Pentagon, a senior military official telling Barbara Starr that from -- there's dismay in the Pentagon at some of these criticisms, saying that listen, you know, if Gates felt this strongly, felt that the leadership was deficient that he would have had an obligation to resign over it rather than make these charges after he left the position.
COOPER: There's scathing criticism of a lot of people. I mean, Hillary Clinton, he recounts a conversation in which Hillary Clinton said she -- was telling Obama that she opposed the surge in Iraq for political reasons, a primary challenge back during the run-up to the election. And Obama seemed to kind of talk about the politics of opposing the surge as well.
Scathing criticism of Biden, incredibly scathing criticism of Congress and what it's like to testify in front of Congress.
I mean, did the 2016 presidential race just get more complicated by this?
SCIUTTO: I think absolutely because he's leveled two very serious charges at two of the leading candidates, Biden and Hillary Clinton. I mean, in many ways he's harshest on Biden. He said in his words that Biden hasn't gotten a single national security decision right in the last four decades. That's an aggressive thing to say in a book.
And with Hillary, in particular, with Secretary Clinton, that's a particularly vulnerable charge to level at her in -- specifically to say in 2007 that she only was against the surge because she was running against Obama in the primary.
Already we're seeing Republican leaders latch onto that comment. You can be sure it's going to come up if Hillary decides to run in 2016. So he's certainly this quiet man, as you say, loyal servant, has injected himself very much into the political race.
COOPER: And quiet and yet in the book he talks about basically that a lot of the time, though he seemed publicly to be quiet and sort of calm, he was actually seething. I mean, that it was that bad. He was seething with what he was seeing behind the scenes.
It looks like it's going to be a fascinating read.
Jim Sciutto, appreciate your reporting.
A lot more happening tonight Susan Hendricks has a 360 bulletin -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the Senate voted narrowly to extend jobless benefits for three months for the long-term unemployed. The move impacts 1.3 million Americans but it's not a done deal. The bill needs approval from the Republican-led House.
Jerry Sandusky is fighting from jail to get his pension back. The former Penn State football coach testified during today's hearing via video link. Sandusky lost his $4900 a month pension when he was convicted of child molestation.
And you've got to see this. In Walpole, Massachusetts, a gas station attendant survived this, being hit by a car and thrown 30 feet. The 83-year-old driver also hit the gas pump. Then as you see burst into flames. He said he hit the gas pedal instead of the brakes. Close call.
COOPER: That's unbelievable. Yikes. All right, Susan, thanks very much.
This coming up ahead, will legal pot sales in Colorado lead to a surge in marijuana addiction? Now some people including Dr. Drew Pinsky say it is a real concern. Others say look, that is just completely overblown.
Dr. Drew joins me ahead. Plus some recovering pot addicts in Colorado tell their stories.
Also ahead, an extraordinary confession. Five burglars come clean nearly four decades after they stole secret FBI documents and helped blow the lid off J. Edgar Hoover's vast spying on U.S. citizens.
COOPER: Welcome back. In a week-long series "Gone To Pot," we're digging deeper in Colorado's decision to legalize recreational marijuana. Now as part of our series, we commissioned a poll to see how far attitudes about marijuana have shifted. If you saw it last night, you know they have shifted a lot in this country.
When asked if marijuana is physically addictive, half said yes that's down from 60 percent in 1972. When asked if marijuana leads to other drugs, 47 percent said yes. That's an even bigger drop down from 76 percent in 1972.
Marijuana has long been called the gateway drug by those who oppose legalizing it. It's a point that's hotly debated among experts. But even if pot doesn't lead to other drugs, what about the issue of addiction? Is it addictive? Gary Tuchman reports.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Denver native, Brian Doyle, used to dread being without marijuana. If he didn't smoke a joint, he wouldn't be able to fall asleep. If he didn't smoke a joint, he would have no appetite.
(on camera): Was it more important than food to you?
BRIAN DOYLE, FORMER ADDICT: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Was it more important than most things to you?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Weed took over the 27-year-old's life. He had often heard it was no big deal, that it wasn't even addictive. But --
(on camera): Were you addicted to marijuana?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): The National Institute on Drug Abuse says about 1 out of 11 pot users become addicted. Brian Doyle decided he needed help and got clean after treatment at the Cedar Center at the University of Colorado Hospital. The executive director of this rehabilitation facility says the potency of today's pot makes the problem worse.
STEVE MILLETTE, CEDAR CENTER, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO HOSPITAL: The concentration of THC in marijuana today is 30 percent, 40 percent in a typical smoke marijuana versus 3 percent or 4 percent THC concentration of 60s and 70s. TUCHMAN (on camera): Other drugs including alcohol and nicotine have higher addiction rates. But there is serious concern among those in the substance abuse field that Colorado's new marijuana law will substantially increase the number of marijuana addicts.
MILLETTE: I think we'll see more people using it on a consistent basis.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): But addiction isn't the only concern. The 22- year-old Stella Blessing is also a successful graduate. She was addicted to crack, meth and heroin. But she preceded that with what the therapists here say are the typical gateway drugs of alcohol and marijuana.
(on camera): How often did you use marijuana?
STELLA BLESSING, FORMER ADDICT: The first time I smoked marijuana I was 14, and I used it constantly throughout my other addictions.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Stella, Brian and others who succeed at this treatment center go to regularly scheduled support meetings with program counsellors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do I want to be in recovery or I do want to smoke marijuana?
TUCHMAN: We asked if they could meet before the next group session to learn more about their past and present struggles.
BLESSING: Life was still really unmanageable, even with just weed. It seemed no big deal, but I was taking bong hits driving down the highway. And things were really crazy.
TUCHMAN: Brian talked about temptations to smoke again.
DOYLE: I was speaking with someone earlier, and they asked are you ever concerned about major life event occurring that just all of a sudden you feel like you have no control and that's the first thing you do. And I said you know, absolutely. That's always going to be a concern of mine being a recovering addict.
TUCHMAN: Michaela Sullivan talked about the challenges of being around others that smoke.
MICHAELA SULIVAN, FORMER ADDICT: As far as going out and smelling weed everywhere, I think it's something each individual has to learn to deal with in their own way.
TUCHMAN: Interestingly the former addicts in this group aren't as concerned as their therapists are about the impact of the new marijuana law in their state. They say when they were determined to get high, getting access to weed was never a problem.
DAVIS MILLER, FORMER ADDICT: When I was in my active addiction, whether a substance was legal or not had little to do with my decision making of whether I was going to take that. TUCHMAN: But now that recreational marijuana smoking is legal here, most feel the new law will encourage new users. Drug abuse therapists fear it. Marijuana store owners hope for it. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Denver.
COOPER: All right, a lot to talk about on this. Joining me is Dr. Drew Pinsky and Carl Hart, author of "High Price" and associate professor of psychology at the at Columbia University. Doctor, you bring folks into the lab and test the results. When people talk about this as a gateway drug do you buy that at all?
CARL HART, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: We have to understand what gateway means. If people are saying the majority of people who use cocaine and use heroin have used marijuana that's absolutely right. But the vast majority of the people who use marijuana don't go on to those other drugs.
COOPER: So you're saying it's not that the pot necessarily leads to these things, it's just that he's that's what they were first able to get their hands on.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, HLN'S "DR. DREW ON CALL": A gateway drug is tobacco and alcohol. Those are gateway drugs. I'm really disturbed by the whole idea that whether or not something is addictive is a criteria for it being illegal. That whole logic is very flawed to me. If that's the case for sure alcohol has to be illegal, tobacco has to be illegal. Pills have to be illegal. Ambien, Anderson --
COOPER: But it's very easy to demonize marijuana. It has been for so long. I think the studies are changing because more people have done it.
PINSKY: It's a demoralizing attitude people have about the human relationship.
COOPER: When people ask you is it addictive it is? Do you believe it's addictive?
PINSKY: Believe or not believe I've been struggling with it my patients for 25 years. I've treated 10,000 addicts in my career. Probably 5 percent to 10 percent of them have marijuana addiction. That's not a big number and it's not, as you say, it's very uncommon. They said 1 out of 11. It's nowhere near that.
COOPER: Dr. Hart, do you agree with that?
HART: That's about 9 percent. That's absolutely addictive. That's not saying much. Alcohol is addictive, tobacco is addictive. The vast majority of people who smoke marijuana, 90 percent do not get addicted. The vast majority of people who even use heroin don't get addicted.
COOPER: You said the statistic that the person interviewed quoted about the high THC levels, you said that's factually incorrect? HART: Yes. He said that the average THC concentration in cigarettes is 30 percent. The average is about 5 percent to 6 percent. So that's just hyperbole. That's what we get in this discussion oftentimes is hyperbole.
COOPER: Do you believe all drugs should be decriminalized? Yes.
HART: Yes. I have argued in my book that all drugs should be decriminalized.
COOPER: Explain why.
HART: In part because of what I said previously. The vast majority of people who use these drugs are not addicted. The vast majority of us who use drugs don't have a problem with drugs. That's one thing. Another thing is that the vast amount of money that we're spending on controlling these drugs and the damage that the drug control has caused to these communities, the social injustices, all of these things lead me to say we should decriminalize all drugs.
But if you decriminalize, you must also have a corresponding amount of education about how to use these drugs appropriately. I think treatment's OK. We've had a lot of advocates including yourself who advocates vociferously for treatment. There has been fewer people who advocate for let's change the way we regulate these drugs because the vast majority of people --
PINSKY: I don't disagree with that. It helps me when drugs are illegal because I sort of have a sword of Damocles to bring down on people to help structure their lives if they keep using. But people that studied prohibition come up with the same conclusion. Whatever they're trying prohibit, alcohol which we all understand didn't works, cannabis, there's an argument in what you're suggesting.
COOPER: When you look at what's happening in Colorado, not just medical marijuana, but legalization of recreational marijuana. There are parents out there who are concerned this more marijuana out there in the hands of people who get it legally, it's going to filter down into kids even though kids can't buy it.
HART: Understand that I have two young kids myself. And I am just like those parents I'm concerned about marijuana or anything else in terms of my kids. But quite frankly, if you're a parent and your focus is on drugs, you probably already lost the battle. Parenting requires you, the parent, completely when we think about how children engage in sex, how children drive automobiles, all of these things you have to parent. Drugs are not the problem. The problem is lack of parenting and other things.
COOPER: Do you see that, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I don't disagree strongly. With respect to this issue of why does somebody do a drug in the first place, you and I were talk about ecstasy off the air. A human being reaches for a substance because they're emotionally unregulated. The issue of developing a flexible capacity to regulate your emotional system we don't help people to do. HART: That's not true. Think about alcohol, when you take a drink of alcohol it's because you aren't emotionally unregulated?
PINSKY: No. But if I were to take ecstasy because I wanted to be a certain way in a club I had some sort of anxiety or something.
COOPER: People do these things because they're enjoyable.
COOPER: That's why the polls have changed.
HART: This is part of the education. This is precisely the type of education that we need to understand. That people use drugs because they work for all sorts of things.
PINSKY: Absolutely. Mammals, all mammals reach for substances that alter themselves.
HART: They work temporarily. So most of the folks who have used drugs, they get altered for the time being and then they go back to their normal life and handle their normal responsibilities. This is what we need people to understand about all of drugs.
PINSKY: I don't disagree. But again the problem that people get into is when they begin to understand the idea that addiction is something people can't control. They still want to blame people for using substances in the first place, though. If somebody's going to be constantly seeking a way to feel better -- some people use drugs to feel good. Some people use drugs to feel better. For people that are using it to feel better are people that are unregulated. That's all I'm saying.
HART: Those are the people we really need to teach. When you're using drugs to feel better, it increases the likelihood that you will get in trouble with drugs.
PINSKY: That's my point.
COOPER: Interesting discussion. Dr. Hart, good to have you here. Dr. Drew as well, thanks very much.
Anti-war protesters convinced the FBI was spying on them fought back by stealing secrets. Now four decades later, some of the burglars are coming clean. They were right by the way. Incredible story what the FBI was doing and how these burglars got the information.
COOPER: Time for an amazing story. Five burglars admitting to an audacious break in at the FBI headquarters years ago. Like Edward Snowden they stole secret government documents that exposed a wide range spying operation targeting U.S. citizens. Like Snowden they leaked them to the media. Now in a new book "The Burglary" by former "Washington Post" reporter, Betty Metsger, all but three of the former anti-war activists are talking. Retroreport.org tells their story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: In the spring of 1970, the war in Vietnam was raging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American battle deaths in Vietnam now number 40,142.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: And at home, anti-war protesters and law enforcement officers were violently clashing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It felt like a nightmare was unfolding. I took what was outrage and horror about what was going on, and I realized that I had to take it somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Bonnie Raines worked at a Daycare Center in Philadelphia. Her husband John taught religion at Temple University. They were the very picture of a golden couple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had an 8-year-old, a 6-year-old and a 2-year- old. We were family folks who also wanted to keep another track active in our lives, which was political activism.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: That activism attracted the attention of the FBI. Its director, the powerful and feared J. Edgar Hoover, perceived the anti-war movement, which ranged from radical revolutionaries to peaceful protesters, as a threat to national security.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At one rally, I had one of my children on my back. And not only did they take my picture, but they took her picture.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Protesters like the Raines became increasingly convinced the FBI was conducting a covert campaign against them, tapping their phones and infiltrating anti-war groups.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We knew the FBI was systematically trying to squash dissent and dissent is the life blood of democracy.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Determined to get proof the FBI was crossing the line, fellow activist and Haverford physics professor, William Davadon, hatched a plan. He reached out to the Raines and six others including a social worker, a graduate student and a taxi driver named Keith Forsyth.
KEITH FORSYTH: We agreed to meet some place where we could talk. He says what would you think about the idea of breaking into an FBI office? And I look at him. And I'm like, you're serious, aren't you? I was pretty vehement in my opposition to the war. And I felt like marching up and down the street with a sign was not cutting it anymore. And it was like, OK, time to kick it up a notch.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: The crew decided to break into a small FBI field office in Media, Pennsylvania.
FORSYTH: Once I got over the shock of thinking that this was the nuttiest thing I'd ever heard in my life, I'm like, this is a great idea because we're not going to make any allegations. We're going to take their own paperwork, signed by their own people, including J. Edgar Hoover, and give it to the newspapers. So let's see you argue with that.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: In the Raines's third floor attic, the team divvied up responsibilities and assigned tasks. They hung maps to learn about the neighborhood, planned escape routes, and took extensive notes on the comings and goings in the building.
FORSYTH: I signed up for a correspondent course in locksmithing. That was my job to get us in the door. Practice you get pretty good.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Bonnie was assigned the job of going inside and casing the office.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was to call the office and make an appointment as an Swarthmore student doing research on opportunities for women in the FBI. So they gave me an appointment. I tried to disguise myself as best I could. And I went to say goodbye. And I acted confused about where the door was. And that gave me a chance then to check out both rooms and know where the file cabinets were.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Bonnie discovered there were no alarm system and no security guards. She also found a second door leading inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she came back without me she was convinced yes, I think we can get this done. We had more to lose than anybody else in the group because we had these kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We faced the reality of if we were arrested and on trial we would be in prison for very many years. We had to make some plans for that.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: With a solid understanding of how they would conduct the break in, they now needed to figure out when.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: March 8, 1971, Frazier and Ali were fighting for the championship of the world. And we had the feeling that maybe the cops might be a little bit distracted.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: While the crew waited at a nearby hotel, Forsyth arrived at the office alone.
FORSYTH: Pull up, walk up to the door, and one of the locks is a cylinder tumbler lock. And I just about had a heart attack. Bottom line is I could not pick that lock.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: They almost called it off, but that second door that Bonnie noticed gave them another chance.
FORSYTH: At that point, you know that you're going to have to wing it. Knelt down on the floor, picked the lock in like 20 seconds. There was a dead bolt on the other side. I had a pry bar with me on a short crow bar. I put the bar in there, and yanked that sucker. At one point I heard a noise inside the office. And I'm like, are they in there waiting for me? Basically said to myself, there's only one way it find out. I'm going in.
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: Next, the inside crew walked into an empty office wearing business suits and carrying several suitcases. They cleaned out file cabinets and then made their way downstairs to the getaway car and drove off unnoticed. The group reconvened at a farmhouse an hour's drive away and started unpacking.
FORSYTH: We were like, man, I can't believe this worked. We knew it was going to be some gold in there somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sorting files. All of a sudden you could hear one of the, look at this one. Look!
COOPER: Among the stolen documents was a memo with a mysterious word on it "Co-Intel Pro." That was short for counter intelligence program, the FBI's vast program to spy on undermine and harass anti- war protesters, civil rights leaders and anyone J. Edgar Hoover considered a threat to national security. Our senior analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, joins me now. So talk more about this co-intel pro.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, co-intel pro was J. Edgar Hoover's program to infiltrate the anti-war movement in many respects illegally by harassing people, by injecting criminality where it didn't exist. It wasn't directly part of their effort to harass Martin Luther King, but it was part of the same category of FBI behavior that was just clearly illegal.
COOPER: And the statute of limitations has run out, which is why some of these people came forward.
TOOBIN: Right. They have no exposure to criminal charges anymore.
COOPER: Obviously the comparison to Edward Snowden comes up. You have been opposed to what Edward Snowden has done. How do you see what these people did? What they found out did it justify means?
TOOBIN: Well, first of all it's a great story. Retro Report and Betty Metsger, certainly my hat's off to them for tracking it down. I don't think what they did is right. Good faith is not a defense to crimes. These people were well motivated, but a lot of people are well motivated. Abortion opponents are well motivated. Are they entitled to go into abortion clinics and harass people there?
You can't break the law because you think it's in service of a higher cause, I think. And so I don't support what they did. But they did begin to uncover something that was very important. It also is why they're not the only people who uncovered co-intel. Carl Stern of NBC News, Frank Church, the senator from Idaho, they all had an important role, too.
COOPER: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks. It's fascinating story.
TOOBIN: People should buy the book.
COOPER: Thanks to Retro Reporter who covered that job. "The Ridiculist" is next. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." It is colder than a polar bear's haunches out there. Tonight we're going to warm you up with smooth jams and hot rhymes Trebek style. Things got really hot last night on Jeopardy with the category all about rap nerds. Here's a sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX TREBEK, HOST, JEOPARDY: Another train, another plane, another bottle in the brain. Beastie Boys rapid in "No Sleep Till Here."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: First of all, what is Brooklyn? That one was pretty straight forward, but I have to say I think Alex Trebek started getting more and more into it as the category went on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TREBEK: In nutting but a g thing this doctor rapped never let me slip because if I slip then I'm slipping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Who is Dr. Dre? But more importantly, who is Alex Trebek all of a sudden? He really punched in on G-thang. Who says a 73-year-old Canadian-American host cannot keep it real? He's keeping it real. I believe his final answer on the category was highly enjoyable. I'm telling you it was simply off the chain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TREBEK: You go -- and -- when I jump in my car. People treat me like this hall of fame L.A. Lakers center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Who is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Why was this not a category when I was on Celebrity Jeopardy? I'm totally acing this. Now it's not every day we get to hear Alex Trebek bust some rhymes, but I actually think there was a missed opportunity here. You know when they have video clips of different people giving the clues to categories sometimes? I can think of just one other person who is maybe a smidgen more street cred than Alex Trebek who should have been called on in this instance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": I'm the king of rock. There is nothing higher. To burn my kingdom you must use fire. I won't stop rocking until I retire.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Yes. That's what I'm talking about, Blitzer. Why, why, did run DMC not use him in their King of Rock video?
Gone too soon. He had almost as much flow as Wolf Blitzer there almost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Keep your eyes on my -- you think you can handle this ka- dunka-dunk.
(END VIDEO CLIP
COOPER: That's Missy Eliot's "Work It" as you never imagined it before. Here's where I want to set up immediately, an eight-mile esp free style battle between Wolf Blitzer and Alex Trebek. Now that's a rap on "The Ridiculist."
That does it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now. I hope you join us at 10 p.m. Eastern for AC360 LATER. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.