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The Pot Debate
Aired January 8, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight --
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Happy birthday to you --
PINSKY: Part two of Dennis Rodman and the dictator. So what`s wrong? What is it he`s trying to tell us? I know him, and I`ve got some ideas.
Plus, the great pot debate. Ann Coulter and I take off the gloves.
And Madonna says this photo of her underage son with gin is a joke. But are you laughing?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host attorney and Sirius XM radio host Jenny Hutt.
Pot for fun, Jenny, not just for lightweights like you, but everybody.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Well, yes, it`s problematic, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, we know that you accidentally dug into in some brownie cookies, and I guess it didn`t go so well for you.
HUTT: It didn`t.
PINSKY: But people are profiting from it, is it good, is it bad? My guests want to debate this.
And I gathered together a stately panel to talk about pot.
HUTT: Of course.
PINSKY: But first, I want you to watch this.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: I don`t believe from what I`ve seen that the recreational use of marijuana is a good thing. See this little boy? He`s smoking pot at home with people that are believed to be fully responsible. Those people being his parents.
Why should marijuana be legalized other than you`re going to make a lot of money off of it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really believe it`s a safer choice.
PINSKY: I`m really disturbed by the whole idea that whether or not something is addictive is a criteria for it being illegal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not addictive. And I have problems with that sometimes, because sometimes I forgot to get high.
PINSKY: Of course, that`s Tommy Chong. I wonder why he`s forgetting things? But anyway, I love Tommy.
Joining us to discuss, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Sheryl Underwood, host of CBS` "The Talk", and Ann Coulter, political and social commentator, author of "Never Trust a Liberal Over 3, Especially a Republican."
Ann, you`re where I want to start this conversation. Should pot be legal?
ANN COULTER, POLITICAL AND SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No, no, no, no. It turns young men into sunken chest little pansies without ambition, a work ethic. A lot of energy, if you probably take their pot away. I mean, the idea that they`re just peaceful deadheads, no. They get very aggressive and violent.
And, you know, I mean, at least without alcohol, yes, some people are alcoholics, some people have peanut allergies. But with pot, I agree, I don`t care if it`s addictive. When people smoke enough pot, they are not contributing to society any more. If we put them off in little homes by themselves.
But, no, they pretend that they can deliver newspapers and clean pools and clean out gutters, and do your yard, and nothing ever gets done and they never show up --
PINSKY: Hold on. You`re casting a blanket upon large populations.
PINSKY: Sheryl, what do you have to say about this?
SHERYL UNDERWOOD, HOST, "THE TALK": While I don`t agree with certain uses of drugs and things because people can`t control their compulsion, but there are a lot of people that are on chemo that need marijuana to settle their system. I think if you regulate it, if you make sure it can be sprayed with Sherm or PCP or formaldehyde or something like that, that`s when the government needs to get in to control something like that.
So, this is the one time I would agree it should be regulated, so you can`t -- you don`t have people growing anything from anywhere. You know what I`m saying? You need to regulate it.
PINSKY: But can`t we all agree that physicians should be able to use a substance that`s beneficial for a patient no matter what?
PINSKY: Within his or her -- yes, so this whole business of pot, whether appropriately medically or not, is a nonissue. Doctors, we do it in California. We should be allowed to use it wherever we need to.
COULTER: You know, I disagree with that. I mean, the way you phrase it, I agree with it. But this isn`t being given out by doctors. I mean, Xanax is being give out too much.
PINSKY: Ann, the medical piece ought to be left out of it right now. Let`s leave that aside. And talk about, Ann, I would think you would want to be behind this, this is getting the government out of your life.
COULTER: No, no. Look at California. All of the pet shops have been replaced with alleged medical marijuana dispensaries and it`s all deadheads running the places. They`re selling bongs and roach clips and, you know -- does this have some medical use? I`m sure it does in rare, rare, rare cases, not all the cases people are getting it for.
Why can`t it be dispensed in lozenges? Why do you have to take this with a bong?
PINSKY: Well, it can. Ann, you do need to see what`s going on in Colorado.
Mark, they`re having all kinds of delivery systems. Before -- I`ve got a tweet from Ms. Jenny Hutt saying she`s inclined to go after a pot lollipop.
HUTT: OK, you got -- hold on. You`ve got a text, a private text. So, that`s A, it wasn`t a tweet. And, B, I`m saying my concern is if it`s not really regulated, then people who should not be using it might be end up being enticed to use it.
As somebody who does not like marijuana, I`m seeing so much of it, Dr. Drew, that I`m thinking maybe I should try it again.
PINSKY: So, Mark, Jenny makes an important point. In Colorado, not only do they legalize it, maybe they seem to be actually promoting it.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, listen, I think any reasonable person, especially a parent, wouldn`t advocate the use of marijuana. But that`s completely different to devoting precious judicial resources to prosecuting these cases. I`m in the system every day and have been for 21 years.
There are limited law enforcement resources devoted to investigation, arrest, prosecution, and then locking up people. I have several clients facing three years in prison for large quantities of possession of marijuana. I just think that a better use of our resources would be spent prosecuting violent offenders and other criminals.
PINSKY: Loni, what do you say?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. Look, I think Mark`s making a great point here. They talk about billions of dollars that this country would save if marijuana`s legalized, billions of dollars that go into the justice system, into incarcerating these people, loss of revenue.
But, look, if we`re talking about legalizing marijuana, why don`t we talk about legalizing all of the drugs? I mean, you say, Dr. Drew, that you don`t like marijuana to be banned because it`s addictive or people say it was addictive.
I mean, look, we are an addictive society. We`re addicted to food. We`re addicted to drugs. We`re addicted to binge TV watching.
We`re at a point in our society where we need to make our own choices. Parents need to parent their kids. We need to say yes or no on our own without the government saying, no, you may not have this.
PINSKY: Ann Coulter, I would think you`d be sympathetic to a libertarian point of view, no?
COULTER: Well, for one thing, give me a libertarian country and I`ll be a lot more sympathetic. But at the moment I have to pay for the pothead`s health care, their food, their housing when they can`t work and, by the way, they can`t work.
EIGLARSH: I have a question for Ann.
COULTER: The idea that legalizing pot is going to be this bounty of tax money --
EIGLARSH: Can I ask you a question?
COULTER: No, it`s going to cost America money because it`s going to harm commerce so much because potheads are useless. I don`t care if they`re your bus boy. You`re not going to get your water refilled.
EIGLARSH: I want to ask Ann a question. Does she think that because pot or other drugs are unlawful, that fewer people are actually doing it? I mean, the fact --
COULTER: There`s no question that is true. That is absolutely no question during prohibition, incidents -- for one thing drinking went way down. There may have been problems with prohibition. The cat was already out of the bag and drinking, I think, is far more acceptable than --
EIGLARSH: People get their stuff, Ann.
COULTER: But cirrhosis of the liver went down, diseases related to alcohol, accidents related to alcohol. Yes, alcohol consumption went down dramatically during prohibition.
And as for -- I think it`s a red herring to be talking about prosecuting violence. Of course, we need to be prosecuting violent crimes. How about we sic the anti-cigarette smoking lobby on the pot smokers? In fact, that`s quite the reverse and pot is treated like some health food and meanwhile I can`t get my newspaper delivered.
PINSKY: Sheryl, go ahead.
UNDERWOOD: Here`s my statement to this. First about -- when talking about alcohol, when you drink and drive, that`s when you kill somebody. Anybody smoking, they just heavy, lovable people. They lay on the couch, they sleep it off and eat junk food.
If you`re going to ban something because it`s addictive, what country do I live in that I can`t get bacon and potato chips because that`s what I`m addicted to. So, I have a problem with that.
Lastly, are you going to ban baking soda because that`s what some of my friends is mixing with the cocaine to make crack? So what`s happening with that?
Are you going to ban everything? And is everybody going to be in jail?
COULTER: People will die in earthquakes when they don`t get their newspapers delivered warning them that an earthquake is coming.
PINSKY: Ann, Sheryl`s got a point. Look, they`re banning large sodas right now. The government is going to tell us how to eat, how to sleep. Isn`t this a movement in the right direction to get the government -- it will be very interesting to see what happens.
COULTER: I mean, if anything, if you`re talking about what I`m talking about, which is the productivity of a society and people being able to engage in commerce and build and create things, no, we ought to be subsidizing these enormous sodas with caffeine. We ought to be subsidizing cigarettes.
But no, I would do none of that.
PINSKY: Hold on. Wait, wait, I`ve got say something.
Ann, is the point here that anyone who has smoked pot period going to end up on the couch eating potato chips? Is that your point?
COULTER: No. But obviously, no, but a lot of them do --
PINSKY: So, amongst this panel I`m going to predict that amongst this panel probably everybody has smoked pot at one time or another, and we seem to be pretty productive. Am I --
COULTER: That`s another red herring.
EIGLARSH: Sometimes my kids watch this show. So, no comment.
PINSKY: -- answer to that. Not you guys.
But, Sheryl, finish me up.
UNDERWOOD: We should give pot to all of Congress and all the Senate and maybe they`ll be happy and they`ll get along and get something done.
Now, that`s what you need to do. Give pot to all the mean people in the world and they`ll be more loving and everything. Everybody will be happy.
COULTER: They won`t get anything done. I support that.
EIGLARSH: It doesn`t work with alcohol.
PINSKY: I would rather run into somebody in an alley on cannabis than on a 12-pack of beer.
UNDERWOOD: That`s right.
PINSKY: Anyway, I`ve got to go to break. Up next, going to bring in the behavior bureau into the conversation and I`m going to call them on the carpet on this issue of who has and who has not smoked pot.
Later, a conversation, a Dennis Rodman exclusive. His people reach out to me and ask me to explain something about his behavior in North Korea. I`ll tell you what they told me, when we come back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that is a vintage statement, Nancy Grace.
GRACE: The ones that are disagreeing are the ones that are lethargic sitting on the soap eating chips.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did inhale it intentionally when I was a teenager, and I ate at Taco Bell the entire night. I said I don`t want a fat ass, I`m not going to start smoking weed.
ANDERSON COOPER, TV HOST: There is now a gelato ice cream with --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get creamy soda.
HUTT: I inadvertently ate cookies that were laced with marijuana once, I thought I was dying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe Jen thought she was going to die from one little cookie. What`s the big deal?
HUTT: I ate three cookies!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Accidentally? Accidentally?
PINSKY: Back with my lightweight co-host talking about cannabis.
There`s a quick tweet I want to show you, Jenny. It`s from a Ben Morphy. Can`t even get his handle out there.
"There`s a new level of ignorance being displayed on Dr. Drew right now. Apparently pot makes sloths of people. Joe Rogan (ph) says different."
A, we were saying exactly the opposite of that. Sorry about that. B, Joe is welcome on the program. I`ve got to get on his soon. I`m sorry, I hadn`t made to his podcast yet, but I will. And finally, if you`re addicted to pot which does happen to a small subset of people, yes, it`s going to affect your productivity. It`s going to affect your functioning.
But somebody who has ever smoked pot or really smoked pot, I`m making a different case.
Let me bring in the behavior bureau. But certainly Jenny who overdosed on pot is OK, right? Jenny, you`re OK now? You`re functioning?
HUTT: I`m fine. And I don`t like it. So but, it just has to be regulated. I`m going to stand by that.
PINSKY: Here we go. Danine Manette is here, investigator and author of "Ultimate Betrayal," Wendy Walsh, psychotherapist, Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" in the Young Turks Network, and Leann Tweeden, social commentator.
Now, if you want to join the conversation, tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
All right. Guys, let me make it easy on this panel. Has anyone on this panel never been exposed to cannabis? Never?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I want to clarify something.
PINSKY: Who is going to clarify?
WALSH: I need to clarify. When you ask a mother that question on national television, that`s the equivalent of asking if Santa Claus is real. Of course, Santa Claus is real and of course I`ve never smoked marijuana.
PINSKY: It`s actually worse than that, I will say, because you`re a mom, parents are exonerated from this question. Because the fact is you do not want to discuss with your kids what you did or did not do because it`s giving them a license to pick up where you left off. You don`t lie to your kids but you can be a conscientious objector for sure because you don`t want to give this license. Believe me, I`ve done this a million times with parents. A very different impact putting your arm around kids and say, yes, I smoked a lot of pot.
HUTT: Oh, gosh, no.
PINSKY: But you can`t, you don`t get to do that. Look, we won`t discuss what I did or did not do.
Point being here, it`s an extremely common substance and people can be quite productive if they`ve ever been exposed to it, right, Leeann?
LEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I agree. I`ve never done -- I`ve never smoked pot, I`ve been around it. I`ve been around a lot of drugs, especially coming from the modeling world. I used to see cocaine and pot, just like it was candy at different shoots growing up.
But I`ve never done it. I`ve never even smoked a cigarette. I`m the squarest person you`re ever going to meet on this panel. I used to be really anti-drugs. I used to think everything including pot, should be illegal, everybody should be thrown in jail.
I mean, I`m a product of get rid of drugs in the `80s and `90s and obviously, I don`t think it`s working. And pot doesn`t -- it doesn`t scare me. When I see somebody high on pot, I`m more afraid of the person that`s drunk leaving bars and driving their car and killing people on the way home.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam. Do you have something to say?
TWEEDEN: It doesn`t bother me. Regulate it, get cash from it just like alcohol and cigarettes.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, YOUNG TURKS NETWORK: Right.
SCHACHER: I`ll tell you what, Dr. Drew, when I heard what Ann Coulter said in the previous panel, I was offended, because listen, I`m not a pothead.
Have I smoked pot before? Yes, I have. I`m incredibly productive. I thought what she said was incredibly ignorant.
And the truth of the matter is, people are going -- people that want to smoke marijuana, they`re going to find a way to get it, whether it`s illegal, whether it`s legal, whether they have to create some sort of medicinal reason to get a card, they`re going to find a way. So, why not make it legal so the state can have the tax benefits, they don`t have to continue to pour their resources into anti-pot campaigns.
And like Leeann just said, they can regulate it.
WALSH: But they don`t, that`s the problem. They`re not putting enough money into regulation. They`re so happy to make the tax money.
Here in Los Angeles, there`s a pot shop on every corner, including too many way too close to schools, but there`s so many the cops can`t even get to them quick enough. They`re just not regulating it. That`s the problem.
SCHACHER: You`re talking medicinal marijuana. I think actually --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: I think the medicinal marijuana is a little bit of a joke. Everybody nowadays can get a medicinal marijuana card. They can go into some sham doctor and say, oh, I have trouble eating. Then they get their card. Or I have trouble sleeping.
It`s silly. Anybody can get pot nowadays. Why not just make it legal?
PINSKY: The whole medicinal -- who is talking there? Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Yes, I was going to say, it seems like there`s more pot stores now in LA. than there are Starbucks. That`s an issue.
PINSKY: I`ll tell you --
SCHACHER: Right, I agree.
PINSKY: What drives me insane about that is a horrible practice of medicine. I have not treated an addict in the last five years who did not have his or her marijuana prescription card. That means that every single addict in town here is being given a prescription by a doctor in the practice of medicine. That`s the worst kind of medicine! That`s absolutely ridiculous.
So, the legalization to me is at least a more honest way of approaching.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL PROSECUTOR: No.
MANETTE: I disagree. I disagree, Dr. Drew. I`m not one who believes that we should regulate something or legalize something just because we`re tired of regulating it.
I`m not the parent who says, hey, kids, come have sex in my house because you`re going to do it anyway. So, you might as well just do it somewhere where I can control it.
I don`t agree with that. I don`t think we should make something legal just because we don`t want to regulate it. I get that it brings tax revenue and I get that it takes a burden off the justice system, but I just don`t think that`s a good enough reason to say if you break the law long enough, we`ll just change the law.
I don`t think --
SCHACHER: It should still be a parenting issue. It should still be a parenting issue. Parents should say, hey, don`t go smoke pot. Don`t go drink.
PINSKY: And let`s be clear. There are profound concerns about cannabis exposure to adolescents. It changes the adolescent brain. Do not make any mistake about that.
Adult brain, it seems to be different. We`re talking about the freedom for occasional use. Some people get addicted. It`s a serious problem.
Do the rest of us need to be burdened with a legal and judicial burden to protect people from that? I don`t know the answer. I like that we have system where people can stand up and make the change.
And, Sam, you talk to young people all the time. It seems to me that young people are almost universally in favor of this.
SCHACHER: They are, Dr. Drew. Look at how social media alone has helped everybody be in favor of the legalization or the majority of people, 55 percent of people are in favor of the legalization of marijuana. And that really does stem from social media and the younger generation.
Again, I`m not advocating for parents to tell their kids it`s OK. You should take a stance as a parent and say, no, you should not be smoking pot or else you`ll get in trouble. No, you should not be drinking or else you`ll get in trouble. But it shouldn`t be illegal.
PINSKY: Danine, finish it up. Danine usually has a way of exploding the whole thing. Let`s go, Danine. Finish your thought.
MANETTE: I`m OK with it being an infraction. I`m not OK with it being completely legal.
But if it`s an infraction and something that`s ticketed like jaywalking and we can still get the revenue from people paying tickets and they can go to this online I promise not to smoke class or whatever, but there`s no way I can sign on to the make it legal, something illegal legal. Just like prostitution, I can`t sign on the to that.
WALSH: And, Danine, so far from prostitution. And, Danine, if you use your argument, then alcohol shouldn`t have become illegal either because it got real hard to regulate it.
MANETTE: I know, I get it. I get it.
PINSKY: You guy, I`ve got a lot more to get to, you`ll be back with me in a few minutes. Thank you for sharing this.
It`s a tough issue, I understand that. It is -- we`ll be able to look at what happens in Colorado and study it then decide more rationally. Just look at the evidence. Let`s see what happens and let`s make our decisions accordingly.
Next up, we`re going to switch over to Dennis Rodman. He faced even more controversy today by singing happy birthday to North Korea`s dictator.
And later, Madonna gets her own controversy going, by posting a picture of her 13-year-old son holding a bottle of gin. My panel will have more to say about that when we come back.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
Jenny and I joined again by Loni, Mark, Sheryl and Ann.
Dennis Rodman inciting more controversy tonight by singing happy birthday to North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. This after yesterday`s meltdown on CNN`s "NEW DAY".
Rodman`s representative will join us shortly. He`s like he`s a foreign policy adviser. But I want you to look at this in the meantime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dennis Rodman causing even more controversy, showing the world today exactly how much he adores his friend and dictator Kim Jong-un.
RODMAN: Happy birthday to you --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rodman has said he has no plans to press Kim Jong- un to free American missionary Kenneth Bae, who is doing hard time in a North Korean labor camp.
RODMAN: Do you understand what Kenneth Bae did?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
RODMAN: Do you understand what he did in this country?
CUOMO: What did he do? You tell me. You tell me, what did he do?
RODMAN: No, no, no, you tell me. You tell me. Why has he helped captives?
CUOMO: They haven`t released any charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not sure where he`s getting his information. I`m not sure how much credence I would give to his outburst.
RODMAN: (EXPLETIVE DELETED): I don`t give a rat`s ass what the hell you think.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think he`s an idiot.
RODMAN: Does anyone know this guy`s only 31 years old?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Dennis has drank a little bit too much of the Kool-Aid from the North Koreans.
PINSKY: Ann, what do you make of this?
COULTER: Ann? Did you say?
PINSKY: Yes, I did.
COULTER: Sorry, I just -- I think as far as America`s emissaries go, he`s far more effective than John Kerry. And, Dr. Drew, when panelists on other panels that I`m not on completely mischaracterize my views, you have to let me come back in to respond.
PINSKY: Go ahead, go ahead, please.
COULTER: I`m not the one who said anyone who ever smoked pot is a pothead. I think pothead is a technical term everyone understands. You know, a friendly person who forgot to paint your apartment when you were gone for a month.
PINSKY: I`m trying -- what was it that was said that you didn`t --
COULTER: It was said that someone was very angry at me because she smoked pot once and she`s not a pothead and she`s very productive.
PINSKY: I see.
COULTER: I mean, you were describing the world, many of you, as if there are only two categories. You`re either addicted to pot or you`ve smoked it once or twice.
Look, everyone on this panel I think could have once or twice dropped LSD or taken heroin.
COULTER: But you`d still be productive people on television right now.
UNDERWOOD: Oh, no, no. I never did that. Wait, I will keep my good CBS job, hold on, I didn`t do that.
COULTER: No, I`m saying you could have.
PINSKY: Now that I`ve given Ann a chance to respond, I`ve got to get back to the Rodman thing.
UNDERWOOD: I want to comment on Dennis Rodman.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sheryl, what do you make of his ranting?
UNDERWOOD: I think this Negro needs to get his butt out of North Korea. You`re making it bad on our black president. You`re over there singing happy birthday right before Dr. King. You don`t even know -- look at the brothers, look at the basketball players sitting beside him. (INAUDIBLE) Is that Doc Christie (ph) that went to North Korea?
They were like, I thought we was supposed to get paid for this. I know they didn`t know they were giving over this. They better get out of that country right now.
Anybody that would kill their uncle will not stop at killing you if you lose the game. Get out of North Korea right now. Get out. It`s making the black president look bad right before Black History Month. This is stupid.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Mark.
UNDERWOOD: Am I too black?
EIGLARSH: There`s a couple of issues here. The first issue that we have to acknowledge is that our team lost to North Korea. Can we acknowledge that? How high are these players that we`re losing to North Korea?
PINSKY: An argument against pot here.
EIGLARSH: Who really takes him seriously? Obviously he`s dealing with his addiction. Obviously, that`s fair to say.
That was not somebody who was able to put words together and thoughts that made any sense. And so, what are you really doing, when you have someone who is in active addiction, do you really take what they say seriously?
I don`t think he has a clue that there`s 100,000 people in a concentration camp in North Korea. I don`t think he cares.
COOMBS: But that`s what`s dangerous about this is we write him off saying, look, he`s always been a circus act. We all know that. But he is over there representing America like he is a diplomat. And I`m all for diplomacy. I`m all for goodwill games, which I think the other basketball players have been doing that for years and that`s a wonderful thing to do for America.
But look, the problem here is it`s Dennis Rodman. He is a loose cannon. And he is sitting here budding up to a guy who`s a very dangerous man who --
PINSKY: And --
COOMBS: If he gets mad and don`t (ph) want to play in the sandbox any more, he`s got like nuclear toys. So, we can`t just write this off like it`s not a big deal.
PINSKY: Sheryl, hold on a second. I want to talk to Ann real quick. And Ann, there`s a man sort of freedom and, potentially, I guess, life is hanging in the balance. There`s an American who`s been held in captivity and who knows what sort of -- how this is going to impact on that poor man. There he is there.
COULTER: You know that`s a very serious issue. I mean, I actually do think it`s probably helpful to us for Kim Jong-Un to think that most Americans are 7-foot tall, heavily tattooed, pierced lunatics. It would probably scare the bejesus out of him. I sort of don`t want to make fun of Dennis Rodman. I don`t think people take him very seriously, to be honest. I don`t think Kim Jong-Un takes him very seriously.
But I mean, I`ll defer to the expert on this, but it looks like he`s not doing very well and we may not have Dennis Rodman around with us much longer. He looks like Anna Nicole Smith in the last stage. And I don`t think it`s hurting us, because what are we going to do with North Korea, trade with them? What do they have to trade?
EIGLARSH: It`s not like he has any secrets. Like, nobody entrusted him with any, you know, U.S. secrets. So, what could happen? Someone gets released?
PINSKY: Sheryl, what do you want to say?
SHERYL UNDERWOOD, @SHERYLUNDERWOOD: Well, here`s my problem with the diplomacy angle and wanting to help people and bridge the gap, why don`t we have these retired basketball players and athletes go to historically Black colleges and universities and be coaches and mentors to these kids? Why don`t we have them raise their money doing exhibition games for historically Black colleges and universities who need money?
You`re going over there and doing something that`s dangerous. If Dennis Rodman got himself together because he`s a well-respected basketball player, why are you going there? Some place that --
PINSKY: Hang on, everybody. I don`t think -- I don`t think it`s because they`re raising money, it`s because they`re getting money, but I`ve got someone on the phone right now named Ivan Eland. He`s a senior fellow with the Independent Institute. This is a public policy research group. He is Rodman`s so-called unofficial foreign policy adviser.
PINSKY: So, I have a very limited amount of time here. Yes. I appreciate you joining us. Please explain to us your interpretation of Dennis` outburst and the impact it could potentially have on the North Korea/U.S. relations.
VOICE OF IVAN ELAND, RODMAN`S UNOFFICIAL FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR: Well, I think, you know, his intentions are misunderstood here. He wasn`t accusing Kenneth Bae of doing anything wrong. He`s suggesting that there may be some other reason that Bae is being held. There may be things going on that could not be talked about publicly. And I urge all parties in media, including people on this show, to not to rush to judgment on what is happening.
You know, the issue is too important to those involve to engage in supposition. Now, I think Dennis Rodman, you know, and I`ve said this and that`s why Dennis Rodman, you know, he likes not what I said because I support his visit. And the reason I do is this man has nuclear weapons, he`s unpredictable. We need to talk to him in every way. The U.S. government has no contacts with him.
And we need to change our policy. Our policy may be defended against Iran when we try to economically strangle him because they don`t have a nuclear weapon. This guy likely has a nuclear weapon. And, when we try to economically strangle and isolate him, what did he do? He only thing he can sell is nuclear technology to other countries, and that`s the worst possible outcome.
So, we need to talk to him. The government needs to talk to him. And I think Rodman can establish a back channel communication. He`s also got more intelligence than the CIA does and the Snowden documents prove it. I have nothing on North Korea.
PINSKY: Panel, I`m sorry. I can`t go on. I have to go to the break. We have to take a break. We`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: No, no. I`m just saying. No. I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t give a rat`s ass what the hell you think. Look at these guys. Look at them!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our "Behavior Bureau," Danine, Wendy, Sam, and Leeann. Last night, we wondered was Dennis Rodman is intoxicated or something during that interview? Well, we have possibly an answer. Last night, Dennis Rodman`s camp asked me -- actually requested that I explain that they felt, who was contacting me that night, that he was intoxicated during that appearance on CNN`s "New Day."
Saying to me, you know, don`t you remember when you treated him, he was so much better when he was abstinent and sort of working with sobriety, and it`s true. That behavior you saw that was not how I came to know him, but when he`s in withdrawal, when he`s using, he would certainly be that way. Anybody surprised that he might be intoxicated there?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No.
PINSKY: Right. And does anybody think is that a reasonable explanation for how he was behaving? What do you think, Wendy?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., @DRWENDYWALSH: Well, I think --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew?
WALSH: -- you know, he`s a narcissist anyway. He`s a show boater. There is nothing wrong with the part of his brain that knows how to grab fame and media and grab attention. That`s why he`s in North Korea. That`s why he`s not helping young men at great colleges with predominantly Black students.
This in North Korea because the cameras are there and because we`re talking about it. Do I think he might have been intoxicated? Of course, he may have been. I mean, he`s a former addict. People fall off the --
PINSKY: I don`t know about (ph) former. He worked (ph) very hard every day on his sobriety to stay -- but Danine, go ahead.
DANINE MANETTE, @DANINEMANETTE: The only thing worse than an attention whore is an attention whore who`s broke. And that`s a situation that we have within here. It`s just really, really a sad situation. It`s like he`s a clown and if you follow a clown long enough, he`ll lead you to the circus. And, you know, the last segment Mark was saying he`s surprised that we lost that game.
Of course, we lost that game, because if we`d won that game, then probably all the players on the other team would have been killed by midnight. So, yes, of course, we had to lose. You know, we had to lose.
PINSKY: Sam, what do you want to say there?
SCHACHER: I think that Dennis Rodman -- I`m sorry, yes, he`s a narcissist, he`s an egomaniac. I also thing he`s an A-hole, OK? I sat on my couch last night. I watched your show last night. I learned that he hasn`t seen or talked to his mom in for, what, like over a year? He`s hundreds of thousands of dollars on his -- on back child support.
And you know what, Dr. Drew, Kim Jong-Un has been a huge basketball fan since he was a little kid. He`s loved and obsessed over basketball players more than any other public figure. So, you know that he`s treating Dennis Rodman like a rock star and Dennis Rodman is loving that.
And really quickly, furthermore, I`m so appalled that Dennis Rodman would call Kim Jong-Un a friend, say that he respects him when Kim Jong-Un has violated human rights, less in rights (ph), and it`s just -- it`s absolutely disgusting.
PINSKY: And Leeann, last night, you clarified something for me when I first got to know Dennis. He explained something to me that if he and I would have a relationship, I have to understand that the world is configured as such, there`s God and then there`s professional athletes. But Leeann to you, that was not surprising for you to hear an athlete say something like that.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, @LEEANNTWEEDEN: No, because, I mean, look, for 15 years of my career, I`ve been a sportscaster, so I`ve been around all of the biggest athletes, and they do have that narcissistic quality. And not only, you know, like one of our panelists just said. He`s a narcissist that`s broke. But not only that, you know what I think, it`s even deeper than that. He`s not relevant any more.
Remember when he used to dress up as a woman and it used to be so shocking. Well, it`s not so shocking any more. People kind of just look at him and go, that`s kind of pathetic and nobody really gives him the time of day. This is getting him the time of day. We`re talking about it. He`s doing something that`s so crazy and outrageous that we`re giving him time again on the screen.
So, how much crazier can it get? Because we don`t care if he wears girl`s clothes any more. We don`t care about that. So, he wants to be relevant and he wants to make money, which is totally sad.
TWEEDEN: -- alcoholism and his narcissism.
PINSKY: He and his NBA stars played an exhibition basketball game last night for the entertainment of Kim Jong-Un and his friend. It was the dictator`s birthday and here is how Dennis Rodman celebrated the man he called, "my best friend." Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING) Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny, very awkward. Very --
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Awkward: He thinks he`s Marilyn Monroe. I think the guy has a very rich fantasy life, Dr. Drew. And I think he is over there becoming someone that he wants to be. It`s the most bizarre set of circumstances.
PINSKY: Now, I want to show you guys.
PINSKY: I reviewed this last night. I want to do it again. When he came into "Celebrity Rehab," I actually arranged for a brain scan for Dennis Rodman. Dr. Daniel Ayman (ph) attempted to explain to Dennis what we were seeing on the scan and the severe alcohol damage that we documented. Here`s how Dennis reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we see this bumpy appearance, I don`t like that. I would worry that you could get something like Alzheimer`s disease if you don`t do a better job of taking care of your brain. Alcoholic dementia is the second most common cause of dementia in the country. The exciting thing is it can be better, but, without taking good care of it, this is going to deteriorate and get worse.
RODMAN: Doesn`t matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So Wendy, there you go. I mean, that was the objective data several years ago. And you say the fame seeking part of his brain is OK, but his temporal lobes weren`t working right. he had stippling on the cortical surfaces. He had hyper-functioning of his frontal lobes. These are -- you know, these are going to make for really significant impairment to judgment.
WALSH: They can. And the thing that disturbed me the most was his reaction to it, "it doesn`t matter."
PINSKY: Yes. Right.
WALSH: It was almost like he has resigned himself to the fact that he is going to be on a decline for the rest of his life as far as brain function is concerned. And rather than getting on a health kick, he seemed to think, oh, well, this is who I am. That was tragic for me.
PINSKY: This whole thing makes me sad. Dennis is not a bad guy. He is not. He behaves in ways that make you kind of frustrated and angry. Leeann, you`re having a reaction. What`s your point?
TWEEDEN: Did you say to me?
PINSKY: Yes, yes. You looked like you`re having sort of an emotional reaction.
TWEEDEN: Well, I mean, he is a nice guy. And I`ve done, you know, pieces with him for different shows when I was at Fox Sports over the years. And you know, sometimes, it`s like any alcoholic or anybody that has, you know, issues, that there are times when they`re so nice and they`re with it and they`re together.
And then, a second later, it can flip just like that. And you don`t even understand what the person`s saying. And they get angry and they get violent and you`re kind of scared to be around them. And it`s really sad.
PINSKY: That`s why when -- delicate international relationships hang in the balance, it gets a little bit scary. Danine, finish me off.
MANETTE: When he was singing happy birthday, I was wondering why he wasn`t singing "who let the dogs out," because I think that would be a more appropriate song. He puts himself up there next to God when he`s fraternizing with Satan. I have a real problem with that. So, you know, I just -- I have a whole -- a big problem with this. I don`t care what type of democracy or diplomacy he`s calling himself doing. It`s just disgusting to me. It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: Next up, Madonna`s kicking off the New Year with a new scandal. Hear what she has to say about a controversial picture she posted on Instagram. And reminder, you can find us on Instagram @DrDREWHLN. Be right back.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, and Sam, and Wendy, and Sheryl. Madonna -- oh, before I go to Madonna, though, I wonder, can we show you guys a tweet regarding Mr. Rodman because I know Sheryl, you had something more you wanted to say as well. It`s from Tina Martin, "Someone should tell Dennis that Kim Jong-Un is a psychopath. Psychopaths don`t have friends. They use people."
I can understand why Tina would say that about the dictator. I don`t know the guy. He`s a guy that`s hard to assess, get any information. Sheryl, you have something you want to say about Rodman?
UNDERWOOD: You know, I thought about this. You know, I served in the military. I was in the Air Force reserve. Here are men that we respect as great athletes that America looked up to, they`re champions, and what has anybody thought about our troops that are serving in South Korea?
And how do they feel that this man that won these championships that they respect is over there doing this? So, why don`t we all think about our troops and how they feel right now?
PINSKY: Good comment, Sheryl.
PINSKY: Jenny, you want to put -- last comment.
HUTT: I just want to say that Dennis Rodman doesn`t care if Kim Jong- Un is a psychopath. He cares that he`s getting attention and he cares that he`s being treated like a rock star and he cares that he`s being paid. He`s an egomaniac. And that`s what this is about, Dr. Drew, mixed with his substance issues or whatever else is going on. It`s unacceptable.
PINSKY: We will leave it at that. Let`s go on to more substance issue as it pertains to Madonna. The 55-year-old superstar is back in the headlines for posting this photo on Instagram. It features her 13-year-old son, Rocco, and too seemingly underage friends posing with bottles of alcohol, along with the caption, quote, "The party has just begun, bring it, 2014."
Yes. That`s a little disturbing, isn`t it? Sam, you`re the youngest person on the panel. Is that a little disturbing to you?
SCHACHER: Listen, yes, I love me some Madonna, but I think that this photograph of her son posing with alcohol whether she thought was a joke or not was incredibly irresponsible. And just a few days prior, Rocco, her son in the picture, had posted himself with friends with alcohol with #faded. So, either this type of behavior is condoned or madge (ph) is just not monitoring his social media.
PINSKY: There`s that other picture. It`s up right now alongside of you, Sam. The picture you`re referring to. Wendy, I`m going to go to you. My understanding is this kid was raised largely in Europe. What about the defense that well things are different in Europe. You know, kids are allowed to consume alcohol in Europe at a younger age. What do you say, Wendy?
WALSH: I don`t think this has to do with European or not. I think this has to do with the fact that she`s a mom who forgot that everyone sees everything on the internet. And I actually want to defend Madonna a little bit here, I can`t believe I`m doing this, but I do love Madonna. Over at the Christmas break, we were at a hockey game in Canada, it was cold.
I gave my teenager a hat that I`d gotten free at some celebrity ski event. And it had patron written on it. I didn`t even think about it, and she was taking all these selfies and posted all over the internet. And people were like your teenager has a hat that says Patron on it. And I`m like -- I never even thought that, you know, this would become controversial.
PINSKY: Madonna did respond herself. She responded, "No one was drinking. We were just having fun. Calm down, get a sense of humor. Don`t start the year off with judgment." OK. So, that`s her response. Wendy`s is that she didn`t know that Patron was a tequila, evidently.
PINSKY: And this business of it being whether European -- just look at the data on Europeans and alcohol disorders, it`s off the chart. This business said, well, we teach the kids young. BS. It doesn`t have a positive effect. It has a grotesque negative effect.
Next up, cold weather stance caught on camera. Best viral video is right after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Wendy and Sheryl. I was in New York City yesterday where the low was five degrees. It was like novelty comedy cold there. It broke a 118-year-old record. Nothing compared to the minus 17 in Minnesota where a young man wanted to learn what happens when urine hits subzero temps. Watch this video posted by Dakoda Leydon (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, it`s turning into fog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: See, I`ve got a panel of women. You don`t appreciate high comedy. Highbrow humor when you see it.
PINSKY: You guys are shaking your heads -- to us, this is the epitome of expression.
PINSKY: Sheryl, what do you think?
UNDERWOOD: That`s not the kind of lift enhancement we, ladies, would like to see.
UNDERWOOD: We want to see something else. Any man crazy enough to urinate in the snow, I got a problem with. Can I say something about Madonna baby having a bottle of gin? Can I just say --
UNDERWOOD: OK. Look, first of all, in the hood, gin is ghetto Viagra. So, I really don`t want to see a 13-year-old drinking something that`s going to stimulate him. And at 13, the only thing that`s supposed to be fading is your jeans. That`s the only thing that should be faded. Stop using them terms that you don`t know what it means. And then Madonna tell her kids they couldn`t watch TV? Wasn`t (ph) she like that like 12 years ago --
PINSKY: Yes, she was excessively intrusive. Right. The evil television. Sam, what do you want to say?
SCHACHER: Oh, well, going back to the urinating kid, I was actually kind of impressed by that. I had no idea that in that cold of a temperature, that it just turns to powder? That`s insane.
HUTT: We learn a lot here, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What`s that Wendy?
WALSH: Dr. Drew, when I flew out of Montreal on Friday, it was minus 37 with the wind chill factor. I was pumping gas just before that and my hand froze on the thing. My breath made icicles come on my hair. I mean, it was just like --
WALSH: I wonder what his penis looks like now? Like, is it red and frostbitten?
PINSKY: "Last Call" goes to Jenny Hutt.
HUTT: I love Madonna.
PINSKY: Even though she wouldn`t let your kids watch television. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.