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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Caught on Camera: Cops Slam Teen Into Wall; Dennis Rodman Off the Deep End in North Korea; End of Pot Prohibition Near?

Aired January 8, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, it`s happened again: cops accused of unprovoked brutality, this time slamming a 19-year-old into a jail wall, and then pepper spraying him. It`s all caught on camera. The teenager, Michael Bergeron, was arrested for drunk driving and drug possession. But look at this video from YouTube. Did the cop have any reason to slam him into the wall?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live. Let`s debate it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disturbing video emerging on YouTube. A police officer throwing a teenager against the wall. Bergeron had been arrested for drunk driving and possession of drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He claims he suffered broken teeth and a head injury during the incident. As the video goes on, you can clearly see the officers laughing. One of them even smiles as he looks right at the camera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my rant. These New Hampshire cops say the kid was uncooperative. He may be mouthing off to police. But as irritating as that is, it doesn`t make it OK to slam somebody against the wall. It`s unnecessary roughness.

The problem is, if we say this violence is OK, we`ll let it go, we`ll give them a pass, we`re opening a Pandora`s box. Where will the police violence stop?

The overwhelming majority of cops are courageous Americans who risk their lives every day to protect you and me. This makes them look bad. It`s not fair to police. Look at the cops smiling after the head slam. Look at that. They`re not supposed to act like that. They`re not supposed to be laughing. Laughing. Laughing and smiling. Laughing and smiling. Over a kid getting his head slammed. They`ve got to realize that they`re on camera, because you see that the cop, one of them, looks right into the camera and smiles. So this is just plain old dumb.

What did they think, this is never going to come out?

Tonight, I`m asking, what if this was your son and he made the mistake that lots of teens, that I made when I was a teenager, made of drinking and driving? Would you be upset if he was body-slammed and pepper-sprayed by the cops? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our Lion`s Den debate panel, and they are ready to rumble. We`re going to start with defense attorney Brian Claypool. Do you believe that there is something wrong with that picture?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, are you kidding me? This isn`t a UFC championship fight. OK? This is a police officer who`s trained to deal with suspects who have been arrested for drug charges and for DUIs. An officer has to be in fear of being harmed in order to slam somebody against the wall.

You saw the tape. It speaks volumes. This suspect was simply walking straight ahead. The cops slammed his head into the wall. That`s not only criminal, but this young man should be suing for a civil rights lawsuit, as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose. Jordan Rose, attorney out of Phoenix.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Look, we have no idea what happened before we see the video. Right?

CLAYPOOL: We do know.

ROSE: This kid -- no, we know that this guy was arrested for...

CLAYPOOL: It doesn`t matter.

ROSE: ... while intoxicated. He was on drugs. And since this time, in 2009, this guy`s been arrested three more times. So I have to -- I -- the investigation needs to take place. We need to see what precipitated this. Because he could have been crazy. He could have been acting irrationally. They might have had to put him down in some way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, look, we can`t -- we can`t hear audio. We don`t know what this kid is saying. But in some ways, it doesn`t matter.

It`s safe to say -- I`ve read through the police reports. It`s safe to say that this kid was a pain in the butt to all of these officers the entire night, if you believe the police report. He was yelling profanity at them. He was pushing them in some cases, according to the police report. But police are trained to not get frustrated. And what I think you saw there was some frustrated angry cops, tired of dealing with a jerk of a teenager all night, and they stepped over the edge.

ROSE: We don`t know if it was just a jerk or if they felt like their life was in danger. And if they felt like their life was in danger, we need to know that, and we need to see it. So let`s see what happened before this. Because I find it weird that this...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got some information. According to the police report, this kid, Michael, was arrested for a DUI and drug possession. The report says he was uncooperative, aggressive, yelling, swearing, and tried to flush his own shirt down the toilet.

The town manager says they stand behind the cops at this point, but they`re looking into what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stand behind the Seabrook Police Department. WE think that the Seabrook Police Department and the chief of police take their responsibility to the public very seriously. I know I do. And we will conduct a full and thorough investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Greg Kading, former LAPD detective, author of "Murder Rap." This kid is no angel. Look at his rap sheet. According to SeapostOnline.com (ph), he was arrested on a charge of possession of controlled narcotic drugs in 2010; simple assault in 2013. 2011, he was found guilty of conspiracy to sell controlled drugs. Does that history affect how we judge the cops` behavior in this case?

GREG KADING, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Absolutely not. All of that is completely irrelevant to what we see happening on that tape. That tape indicates, obviously, those cops were not under any kind of threat. It doesn`t matter what kind of verbal abuse is going on. There`s no way to justify that action.

What`s most disturbing is when you look at that in slow motion, how intentional it exactly was. You see the cop leaning directly into his shoulder in order to place -- to force his face into that wall. You cannot justify those actions.

Most surprising to me is that this is happening at a time and place when cops know they`re on a surveillance camera.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that`s what I don`t get. Go ahead.

CLAYPOOL: Jane, hey, Jane, if this -- if this kid was so uncooperative, why did they not have him handcuffed? He didn`t even have any handcuffs on. That proves that these cops were belligerent, and they knew what they were going to do. And the cop laughs at the last second, because this kid was posing no harm at all.

LEIBERMAN: And here`s the other thing, Jane -- here`s the other thing.

ROSE: But we`re jumping to such a conclusion. You haven`t seen everything. It`s like taking a video of your kid in a parade. You see the kid...

CLAYPOOL: You would handcuff somebody if they were going to harm you.

LEIBERMAN: Here`s the thing. This happened back in 2009. Internal affairs should be going through tapes from that period forward and seeing if there`s anything else on those tapes. These incidents just don`t happen once. And this one happened four years ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to talk about YouTube justice. No. He said he gave it to his lawyer. For some reason it didn`t go anywhere. And then he finally decided to put it on YouTube. It`s gotten 82,000 views. And now voila, magically we now have an investigation. And three cops are on paid leave as the department looks into what happened.

So you know, I -- what I find fascinating is we`re in this YouTube culture now where I call it YouTube justice. You have a complaint about something, put it up on YouTube. You know, calling -- calling government agencies, when is the last time you got an answer? You usually get a recording, right? Or beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. No. Put it up on YouTube. You`ll get answers.

I want to go very quickly to Carol, Indiana. Carol, Indiana, what have you got to say about this, Carol?

CALLER: Jane, I`m infuriated. No. 1, anytime you arrest anybody that`s under the influence, you`re going to get that adverse behavior. All they had to do was handcuff him and put him in a cell. That`s all they had to do.

But how many people do you hear when they`re drunk and disorderly conduct? That`s another charge. And this should never be like that, Jane. Never should be like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And listen, this isn`t the first time we see cops pushing suspects arrested for DUI. You remember the case of the woman who wouldn`t look at the camera to take her mug shot? Got to show you this one, because this unfortunately is a classic.

Cops allegedly push her into the cell so hard, if broke her face. If you watch for a couple seconds more, you`ll see blood spurting out. She needed -- I think, she needed some kind of reconstructive surgery after that. It is bad. The blood starts pretty darn soon. There it is.

I mean, is there something about the blood, Greg Kading? Is there something about drunk people? Listen, I`m a recovering alcoholic with 18 years of sobriety. I know that when you`re drunk, you`re out of control, you`re a pain in the tuchus. You know, is it something about DUIs that makes these cops go over the edge?

KADING: Well, usually you`re dealing with somebody who, you know, is uncooperative. They may be even verbally offensive.

But the truth of the matter is, as a police officer, when you have somebody in custody, your responsibility is to protect them. Not only from themselves, but from you. And so you have to maintain control of your own emotions, and so that these type of things don`t happen. They just shouldn`t happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, speaking of uncooperative, Dennis Rodman. I just can`t believe this guy. He makes me sick to my stomach. Now he`s singing happy birthday to a guy who executes people the way other people, I don`t know, buy lottery tickets? It`s unbelievable. You`re going to hear him sing "Happy Birthday" next. And it`s just -- he`s got so many problems. We`re going to tell you all about them. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O`BRIEN, HOST, TBS`S "CONAN": This is crazy. Have you seen? He had a meltdown. Yes. Dennis Rodman. Nuts.

During a satellite interview from North Korea, Dennis Rodman started screaming at a CNN reporter. Yes. And there was an awkward moment when Kim Jong-un said, "Oh, my God, this guy is a lunatic."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS RODMAN, BASKETBALL HALL OF FAMER: Do you have to take me on, douche? We`re going to kick. Do you, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not going to dignify that outburst with a response.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think he`s an idiot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This isn`t some game. This is about a person`s life.

RODMAN: I love my friend. This is my friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be analogous to having a tea or lunch with Adolf Hitler.

RODMAN: No, no, no, I was just saying. No, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t give a rat`s ass what the hell you think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Global outrage mounting minute by minute as former NBA superstar Dennis Rodman sings "Happy Birthday" to one of the vicious dictators in the world. A man who`s killing people left and right. Butchering relatives, ex-girlfriends, keeping 200,000 people in concentration camps.

This guy, Dennis Rodman, sings him "Happy Birthday," thinking maybe he`s like Marilyn Monroe? Remember that classic moment from FOX Movies tone (ph)?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MONROE, ACTRESS (singing): Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, Mr. President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, Marilyn Monroe is singing to President Kennedy. Rodman is doing something very different. He`s honoring this sadistic killer. One of the most monstrous dictators of our time, who executes people with abandon, including his uncle, and reportedly his own ex-girlfriend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODMAN (singing): Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rodman gathered up a team of former NBA stars to play at a birthday basketball game for Kim Jong-un`s enjoyment.

Rodman He described the supreme leader, who`s been accused of genocide, as a very good guy. Really, Dennis?

Rodman claims he`s on a basketball diplomacy mission. This is his fourth visit to North Korea in a year.

During an interview with CNN yesterday, he was asked about this guy, an American, who`s doing 15 years hard time in a North Korean labor camp. OK? An American. This guy is an American. On charges that he planned to use religion to topple the government. Whatever. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODMAN: ... what he did.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

RODMAN: Do you understand what he did?

CUOMO: What did he do? You tell me. You tell me. What did he do?

RODMAN: No, you tell me. You tell me. Why is he being held captive?

CUOMO: They haven`t released any intelligence. They haven`t released any reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Incoherent ramblings. Unfortunately, the American being held is just one of an estimated 200,000 prisoners being held in North Korea`s horrific prison camps. Boy, I was reading about it. The rape of women. Then they kill them. Making people dig their own graves. I mean, the list goes on and on. It`s so horrific, it really is the stuff of nightmares. Hundreds of thousands people in these vast labor camps. And Dennis Rodman is singing him "Happy Birthday"? What the heck!

Jawn Murray, I know this Dennis Rodman, I`ve been covering him for years. His bad parties, his alcoholism, his drug problems. Is he also mentally ill?

JAWN MURRAY, ALWAYSALIST.COM: Well, I`m no psychologist, Jane, but I would venture to say either that, or you know, he`s had several known substance problems.

I mean, the guy sounded like hulk Hogan after dental surgery on that clip. And the guys behind him were looking like, what have we gotten ourselves into?

And I mean, the birthday song? Clearly, he won`t be on this season of "American Idol." I mean, at least the song was more legible and understandable than him talking on CNN the other day.

This is a disaster. He loves the attention. He thinks it`s cool. But we know what the end result could be with Kim Jong-un.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? Jordan Rose, I`ve read about North Korea. And I`m a person -- and I think many of us who stay up at night when you think about the suffering going on. And, you know, you`re having a good time or you`re on vacation or you`re enjoying your weekend and you think, oh, you know, there`s these people in these prison camps being tortured. I can`t stop thinking about it.

And that`s bad enough. But to think that this jerk, this bozo -- I can`t use the words that are coming into my mind -- goes there, and you know it`s about money. You know this guy -- we`re going to tell you all the money problems this guy has had. He made, like, something like 8 grand a couple of years ago. Used to be an NBA superstar who was making millions. And now he has no money. Is this all about money? Follow the money.

ROSE: Yes, I think it has to be about money. It`s about, you know, create your own attention. He can`t get a reality show, because he`s entirely irrelevant. So here he does some bizarre -- I mean, this would be a movie, because it`s so unbelievable.

I can`t imagine what the poor Obama administration is thinking when they`re thinking about, oh, my gosh, my foreign policy, it just went out the window because of this lunatic who has no qualification to speak on behalf of anyone, let alone the United States of America. Is going to North Korea and monkeying with -- with our future.

I mean, it`s just ludicrous. It makes you absolutely sick. And to see what he`s doing to this family with a real life at stake, in prison in North Korea. For goodness sakes, I mean, somebody put a muzzle on him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Jon Leiberman -- Jon Leiberman, what shocked me was that this guy, who used to be making millions, piffs (ph) it all away, he made $8,000 a couple of years ago. That was his yearly. You know how we know that? Because he was being sued for almost $1 million in back child support.

LEIBERMAN: Absolutely. Look, he has huge money problems. But here`s the point, Jane. What do you expect out of Dennis Rodman? This is Dennis Rodman, and this is what we have come to expect out of him.

So yes, we can be outraged, but it`s clear he doesn`t speak for the United States. And it`s clear that this -- that he wins. And I`ll tell you why. He wins because everybody`s talking about it. He wanted to make a splash, and boy, has he. But what do you expect? He`s not a politician. He`s not a diplomat. He`s Dennis Rodman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he may have wet brain. That`s what I think. I think he`s abused so much alcohol, that he has wet brain now. And he is just being manipulated by this guy.

Let me tell you something, Dennis Rodman. I`ve been reading about this friend of yours, this dictator. He executed his ex-girlfriend. He executed his uncle. You better not get drunk and say something nasty to him, because he could execute you, my friend, or throw you in a labor camp for a couple of decades. Mark my words.

More on the other side. A real shocker.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the street.

(singing): Rocky Mountain high. Colorado.

(speaking): No, I am not (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when I say there are reports they`re running out of pot in Colorado. I`m not kidding you. Pot went legal in Colorado the first of the year. There are lines around the block. It`s unbelievable. It`s crazy. It`s insane.

And just two stores sold almost $90,000 worth of pot in one day.

There`s even a new term, smoke birds. Folks flying in to get that rocky mountain high, if you know what I mean.

Is everybody in Colorado stoned right now? Which leads me to my next question, should pot be legal coast to coast?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I say make it legal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You heard it from a tourist from Moscow. Look at them, all from Moscow. They say make it legal right here in the USA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t smoke pot, but I think you should for a lot of reasons allow it. Medical reasons. Anxiety.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That should be legal, and prostitution should be legal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legalize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure, why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It definitely should be legalized. Why not. I think it would help the state taxes in bringing more revenue for the states.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You want to legalize it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. It`s time, OK?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s time. It`s time. I`m looking for somebody who`s against it.

Do you think the law should legalize it for people over 21 coast to coast?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t? Why not? Well, we don`t know why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She won`t tell me why she`s against it.

In the Lion`s Den tonight, we are debating, should pot be legal coast to coast or does Colorado have it all wrong?

Straight out to Betty Aldworth, and she`s from the National Cannabis Industry Association. She`s one of the people who led the charge successfully for legalization of pot in Colorado. Do you think it should be legal coast to coast, and if so, why?

BETTY ALDWORTH, NATIONAL CANNABIS INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: Listen, prohibition has failed Colorado. It failed Washington, and it has failed across the country. There`s no question that, at some time, taking marijuana off of the streets and putting it behind a counter is going to be the best choice for every state in the nation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bob Forrest, you`re an addiction specialist. You`ve dealt with people who have suffered pot addiction. I don`t care what anybody says. I`m a recovering alcoholic with 18 years of sobriety. I know you can get addicted to pot. You can get addicted to anything.

Do you think it should be legal? And if so, why? If not, why not?

BOB FORREST, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: It`s going to -- it`s going to be legal. There`s no doubt about it. There`s a movement across the United States where it`s going to be legal.

The question is, what are we going to do with this revenue stream and the taxes of it? It should go to treatment for that 10 percent of the population who`s going to become addicted to it, who`s going to suffer tremendously because of their abuse and addiction to marijuana.

And we should be really doing this smart and effectively. And taking some of that tax revenue and getting treatment for the addicts who are going to be devastated by this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. Here`s what makes me furious. And it`s who is being arrested for carrying a little bit of pot or smoking a little bit of pot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at marijuana, for instance. The ACLU did a report recently and found that black Americans are four times more likely to be arrested than whites. And in middle America -- in places like Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois -- that number goes up to eight times more of a chance of getting arrested than whites.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shannon Carol, you`re an HLN producer. You work on our show. We were talking about this. I mean, 90 percent of the arrests are of young black males, minorities. And yet, the studies show that black and white people smoke pot at the exact same rate or a similar rate.

So what we`re doing is we`re criminalizing what one group of people does while another group of people smokes with abandon, and they suffer no legal consequences.

SHANNON CARROLL, HLN PRODUCER: You`re right, Jane. I mean, the fact that black men are behind bars for having weed particles in their pocket, it`s just an excuse to get them behind bars to keep them down.

Now, my thing with pot is there`s a propaganda that is all negative all the time. But the last time I checked, I haven`t seen anybody smoke a bowl and get into a bar fight or get behind a wheel and crash a car and kill a little girl or something like that. But with alcohol, that happens all the time. Why is that legal? Oh, yes, because they can profit from it. The government can profit from it.

But they can`t profit from weed. So what do they do? They use it as a tool to keep people that they want oppressed, in this case black men, so they keep them in jail.

Now, with weed, I mean, people say, oh, they`re going to get addicted. You can get addicted to anything, like you said, Jane. You can get addicted to cookies, if you really wanted to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people are addicted to cookies.

Steven Colbert made fun of all the pot naysayers on his Comedy Central show. We`re going to have a major opponent on the other side. But first, check out Steve Colbert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN COLBERT, HOST, COMEDY CENTRAL`S "COLBERT REPORT": America`s moral core is being gutted, and the rest of our moral apple is being made into a bong.

How dare -- how dare Coloradans spend January 1 ruining their bodies with weed when they should be at home vomiting all the booze from New Year`s Eve like God intended?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kevin, you`re the director of the Drug Policy Institute, University of Florida. You are a fierce opponent of legalization. I mean, come on, more people are OD`ing from legal prescription drugs than illegal drugs. That`s a fact according to the CDC. So why not legalize pot?

KEVIN SABET, DIRECTOR, DRUG POLICY INSTITUTE (via phone): Of course that`s a fact. The issue is, why do we want to repeat the mistakes of our legal drugs and make yet another drug legal and create the next tobacco industry?

Because we`re doing nothing short of creating the Marlboro of marijuana if we go down this path coast to coast.

This issue of incarceration is something that I also agree with. However, we can -- there are other ways to reduce incarceration and make sure that we have justice in our criminal justice system without legalizing marijuana.

Because if you think about it, legalized alcohol in many ways actually also had racially disproportionate effects. There are eight times as many liquor stores in poor communities of color than in upper class white communities.

Why are we so foolish to think we`re not going to have another industry -- in this case marijuana -- that`s going to target the poor and vulnerable and go after them?

This issue about tax revenue, we need to really look at the stats here. And I worked at the White House where we did look at those stats.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Betty, do you want to respond, briefly.

SABET: For every dollar in alcohol -- hold on. For every dollar in alcohol and tobacco tax, we spend $10 in social costs. And the last time I checked, the lottery has not saved public education.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Betty Aldworth, I want to give you a chance to respond.

ALDWORTH: Kevin`s tired arguments about the notion that marijuana is new, are outdated and quickly becoming extremist. Most Americans understand that marijuana is readily available to anyone who wants it and that its purchase funds cartels and criminals in the unregulated market. And there are eight times more of everything in poor communities.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know whether it`s the beginning of coast- to-coast legalization. But I do know that prohibition in the roaring `20s, which made alcohol illegal, created a roaring bootlegging industry.

And I leave you with Warner Brothers` "Great Gatsby."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York, 1922. The tempo of the city had changed sharply. Buildings were higher. Parties were bigger. The more or less were looser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- tonsil surgery last month, doctors told her family she`s brain-dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no medical instruments on this planet that will bring her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been confirmed many times in her case, now we have the coroner saying she`s dead.

NAILAH WINKFIELD: Her heart beats. She has blood pouring through her system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her family has been in a legal battle since doctors declared her brain-dead.

WINKFIELD: I`m just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, big story. A California family faces every parent`s worst nightmare. And my heart goes out to them. Guess what, it didn`t have to happen. 13-year-old Jahi McMath has been brain-dead for a month, hooked up to machines that keeps blood and oxygen flowing as the debate rages about whether or not doctors should pull the plug. Her heart stopped after surgery to remove her tonsils. The operation was supposed to treat her sleep apnea. That`s a condition where you repeatedly stop breathing during the night -- stop and start, stop and start.

Here`s my rant. She may not have needed this surgery at all in the first place. The inconvenient fact is, and we`re not doing this in any way to speak ill of this girl who has been the subject of so much discussion, but to actually help children like her. The truth is she was overweight. She was very overweight. Obesity is a major contributor to sleep apnea. Surgery is not the first line of defense. There are safer, simpler lifestyle changes that could have cured the sleep apnea altogether quite possibly without her having to undergo the knife.

Of course, the risk to surgery when your kid and you`re overweight, those are greater risks. Well, guess what, nobody gets rich off prevention. I`m not blaming the family here, please understand that. I`m not even blaming the doctors. I`m blaming our medical culture. Let`s get people sick and then let`s give them people a pill or give an operation. Ok? You can`t take credit for a medical problem that never happened because people remain healthy.

Straight out to our incredible debate panel. We`ve got some expert doctors. We begin with Susan Levin of the Physicians` Committee of Responsible Medicine. What could have been done differently that might have prevented even having to have this surgery that went terribly wrong?

SUSAN LEVIN, PHYSICIANS` COMMITTEE OF RESPONSIBLE MEDICINE: Well, I can`t speak specifically to this little girl`s tragic case, but in general, sleep apnea is related to overweight and obesity, so the first line of defense or prevention really should be talking about losing weight. Even if it`s slow, slow modest weight loss can improve sleep apnea.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, childhood obesity is a cultural epidemic in this country. In 2010, and I`m sure it`s just as bad now, more than one- third of kids were overweight or obese. Ok?

Listen to this. Here`s a depressing brand-new CDC study that found 75 percent -- three-quarters of children in America and teenagers do not get even an hour of moderate exercise every day.

Dr. Vincent Pedre of Dr. Pedre Wellness, what`s the lesson here because I honestly believe that little Jahi will not have suffered in vain nor her parents or her family if we can learn something about what is fundamentally wrong with our medical culture from this tragedy?

DR. VINCENT PEDRE, DR. PEDRE WELLNESS: I think the biggest problem is that we`re looking at -- we`re dissecting the issues and thinking that the problem in sleep apnea was those tonsils instead of looking at the entire person. What we really need to start doing is looking at the person as a whole.

If the doctor had done that, they would have thought, ok, she is overweight. This is why she has sleep apnea. She needs to go on a lifestyle program. We need to talk about diet. We need to get her to start exercising. That could have addressed the issue by itself. Surgery should be a last resort in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Millions of children in the United States are obese, and they get that way by eating highly processed foods -- fast food, junk food, drinking soda, a lot of unhealthy kids -- you know they can`t even identify vegetables.

Check this out from ABC`s "Food Revolution". This is a shocker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE OLIVER, CELEBRITY CHEF: Who knows that this is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Potatoes.

OLIVER: Potato -- you think these are potatoes? Not potatoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.

OLLIVER: Do you know what it is?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan, we live in a culture where kids don`t even know what a tomato is. And that`s because they`re not seeing tomatoes. All they`re seeing is processed junk and fast food. It`s a crime against these children.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: It is a crime. It is a crime. And if we`re going to learn something from this tremendous tragedy, I mean, this is just beyond anything you can comprehend as a parent, or watching this situation, is you know, have your kids get out there and exercise, eat healthy, all those kinds of things.

But for the public to comment or whether or not this family should be allowed to keep their daughter on a life support or whatever it is system, I just don`t think is right or fair because the public is not paying for this. It`s being funded entirely by private resources.

And if that family`s belief in God or in the scientific community and advancement is such that they think there`s even a sliver of hope that she could somehow recover or have some sort of a life then we just need to respect.

Doctors of an independent medical team has said she is brain-dead; that she is not going to regain her brain activity. And as she languishes on a ventilator, I pray for her family. But I also want to make sure we learn the lesson.

Dr. Vincent Pedre, final words. I will give you four hints: fruit, vegetables, nuts, grains.

PEDRE: Absolutely. I mean we need to -- basically we have to start educating our kids how to eat right and that really starts at home. That means that the parents have to start eating right. And you need to eat vegetables, less grains and exercises. You have to keep a balance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kids watch what parents do. Parents, the best way to honor little Jahi and her family -- teach your kids what a tomato is and get them to eat it.

We`ll be right back with the real --

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: This is my big like middle finger to the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting an x-ray of her ass is like -- saying this is iconic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The booty

KARDASHIAN: It was just really hard to read all these stories and hear all these nasty things. And --

KANYE WEST, SINGER: Have you seen that girl, Kim Kardashian?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight we investigate Kim Kardashian butt. That`s right. We all know Kim Kardashian has one of the most controversial butts in all of Hollywood. But is her booty bona fide? The reality queen set the Internet en fuego after posting this butt selfie on Instagram.

Well, I sent my investigators to take a closer look. Do you see anything unusual about that picture, other than the fact she`s now BFF with an equally bootilicious ex stripper named China Black?

Check out -- back to the photo -- the closet door right behind Kim. It looks curved. So do the tiles. That discovery has angry fans accusing the queen of all selfies of using photo shop to exaggerate her famous curves for the camera. Do you see what I`m talking about?

And now, there`s a hair extension controversy. Exhibit "A" clearly shows according to prosecutors that Kim is wearing hair extensions. But in the past she said her hair is 100 percent real.

The new mom also insists she`s been working out like crazy since giving birth to her daughter North West in June and lost 50 pounds. If you ask the characters of "South Park", the real Kim Kardashian is an overweight hobbit. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kim Kardashian is a short overweight woman who manipulates her image and makes average girls feel horrible about themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re a liar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look it up stupid. In real life, Kim Kardashian has the body of a hobbit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to our fantastic Lion`s Den. Entertainment guru, Jawn Murray, is it real, or is it memorex, the bootah?

JAWN MURRAY, ALWAYSALIST.COM: Oh come on Jane, nothing is real about Kim Kardashian. She`s had her face completely transformed with plastic surgery. The jury is still out about that booty of hers. And let`s not even talk about that reality show. It`s more scripted than professional wrestling. And you know I love professional wrestling.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, we`ve got breaking news, all right? It seems like Kim`s hair is in controversy. And it`s having trouble keeping up with the Kardashians. Check out this picture -- study it carefully -- of the reality star. It looks like she`s got thinning hair and hair extensions.

Some are claiming tonight she`s suffering from hair loss as a result of her extreme dieting since giving birth. We reached out to Kim`s rep -- have not yet heard back. But she certainly looks different there than the glammed-up reality star we`re used to seeing on TV, yes?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are all about Kim right now. It`s not about coming over and hanging out, taking the pictures so you can Instagram or tweet pic it like it`s about quality time.

KARDASHIAN: You wait. So you think I came over her because I want to Instagram a picture of mason?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just saying that`s all you do when you --

KARDASHIAN: That is so like so pathetic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that`s why you come here.

KARDASHIAN: I`m saying --

(CROSSTALK)

KARDASHIAN: I want to spend time with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

KARDASHIAN: And I Instagram and do fun things no matter what I`m doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Out to the Lion`s Den -- Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline, you`ve broken this hair extension, hair loss controversy story. Tell us, what do you know?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: I know that you always come to me for the most serious breaking news, so I appreciate that, Jane, thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course.

TERESZCUK: What we learned is, she is -- absolutely has bald spots on the back of her head. It`s on the lower part of her head. We spoke with an expert who said this could be from her post-pregnancy hormone drop.

So she put her extensions in. They`re perfectly lined up. Can you see that exact line? This is really just another example of Kim trying to have an image that she wants us to believe that she`s had ever since really the beginning of time with her but especially since she started dating Kanye West.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at the Facebook post. Leave her alone. What were they saying about that? Who else did they do it -- "Leave Britney alone", remember that? "Leave Britney alone." Now it`s "leave Kim alone". But we`re not going to. We`ll be right back with more in a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chew on this. Heart disease is the number one killer for both men and women. And what you eat can dramatically change that. Studies show 82 percent of people who eat plant based diets heal themselves. Some doctors say you can reverse heart disease by just choosing a plant-based diet.

So still not sure what to eat for a healthy heart? Here`s a few tips. Start your morning with a bowl of oatmeal. It`s rich in fiber and can help lower your bad cholesterol, also known as LDL. Keep your arteries clean. It`s loaded with omega 3 fats, great for the brain and great for your heart.

And how did chia and flaxseeds get so popular? It turns out they`re a great source of protein. But you don`t have to be a vegetarian or vegan. They have omega 3 fats for anyone, especially if you don`t want to eat fish. Hippocrates understood the concept more than 2,000. Let your food be your medicine. And your medicine be your food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlnTV.com/jane. Riley and Sandy, you are a pair, a magnificent pair. And Belle, you are bella -- the belle of the ball. Waldo -- I just want to take you home. You`re an angel. And Midnight is the newest member of our family, a rescue from the streets of Queens, living with us.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARDASHIAN: You`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

KARDASHIAN: No, you`re (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no manners.

KARDASHIAN: I`m only (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just told me (EXPLETIVE DELETED) so I`m going to say something right back.

KARDASHIAN: Jesus -- so (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you`re so underscored. Right.

KARDASHIAN: As a dad, you should step in because he`s being disrespectful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need to swim with the sharks. Let`s go swimming with the sharks. It would be easier.

KARDASHIAN: We really need to talk to you about your son.

KRIS JENNER, REALITY TV STAR: What`s he doing now?

KARDASHIAN: He`s so crazy, mom. Like he`s -- I think he`s a bipolar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That`s quite a bikini you got there. As JVM investigates, we have to tell you, new season of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" premiers a week from Sunday.

My question is, is reality TV`s most famous family in total meltdown right now? You have momager Kris Jenner. She recently announced she`s separated from Bruce -- the Brucester. Khloe and Lamar we all know that they`re going through a divorce after four years of marriage. Lamar of course has been pulled into major drug scandal. I don`t know. Maybe they should rename their show "Dysfunction Junction".

We have Revyn from North Carolina on the phone. What do you think? Is the Kardashian obsession, is the sun setting on it, or is she just a genius getting us all to talk about her again. Revyn -- oh, Revyn.

REVYN, NORTH CAROLINA: Yes. Hi, Jane, good evening. As far as Kim`s body, I mean, well, if Kanye isn`t complaining, nobody else should be. I mean she`s going to do what she does. I mean that family -- they`re always in the limelight because of this (inaudible). That`s just how things are in this world. We love to see them. We try to keep up with them every night. So I mean if everybody --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you love -- what do you love about it? Is it the --

REVYN: It`s my wish. I wish I had Kim Kardashian in my home, but hey, I can only wish from afar, so I`m watching it on TV.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you are a very honest man, Revyn. I honestly, Jawn, I think he sums it all up. She could say what she wants, she could do what she wants, hair extensions, Photoshop, she`s got it, whatever it is. And she`s got a pair of it, if you know what I mean.

MURRAY: And it made her famous. And it was showcased in a sex tape. And it is why we know who she is. And he can have her in her home. All he has to do is go to the store and buy that video of her and Ray J and he can have her every single night because Kim Kardashian is a porn star first.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh wow. Well, Alexis, I think you want to defend your Kimmy.

TERESZCUK: I do. Come on, she`s hilarious. She -- honestly she seems like one of the happiest people out there. The times that I`ve met her, she`s funny, she`s completely open. She`ll tell you anything. I like her so much.

She`s not a secret celebrity. I know when she gets engaged, I know when she gets married. We know everything about her and that makes her really fun to follow. She`s somebody that -- I`m not saying you should look up to her, but she`s somebody that everybody should follow because she`s funny. What do you need in life? Fun -- and that`s what Kim Kardashian provides.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, we can criticize her all we want, but truth be told, in secret we would probably like to have some of her assets, if you know what I mean. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Finally your Slice of Happiness tonight. This bulldog is scratching Gangnam style. He`s trying to scratch somewhere unmentionable, but he`s getting a little frisky there in the process, and he`s moving to the groove, don`t you think? He says, "I`m so glad I`m not out in that doghouse. Please, bring us all in."

All right. Nancy Grace is up next.

END