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Bieber in Court; Mom Hires Hit Man to Kill Ex-Husband and New Wife; Jon and Kate Plus Eight Custody Battle; Mom-to-be Brutally Killed

Aired January 23, 2014 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Off the top, incoherent, drunk, high on prescription drugs, quote, "smoking weed all day," teen idol Justin Bieber spewing the F-bomb at police left and right, actually having his posse block off a residential road so he can drag race at 4:00 AM.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, teen idol, worth $130 million, multi-millionaire, multi-platinum seller Justin Bieber in a U.S. court of law.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justin Bieber is now the newest pop star to fall from grace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Courtesy of TMZ, this is the scene of the alleged crime. You see Justin Bieber`s yellow Lamborghini there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) DUI and (INAUDIBLE) It`s unacceptable behavior, and he was arrested for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I consumed some alcohol and I had been smoking marijuana and consumed some prescription medication.


GRACE: That`s video from Bieber`s music video "Boyfriend" from Island/Def Jam Music.

And tonight, seeing is believing. A Louisville woman tries to hire a hitman to murder her ex-husband and his brand-new wife, demanding them dead before the next custody hearing, the whole thing caught on video. We have the video.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re done with this, tear it up, burn it up, push it down the toilet.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you call this, it will go right to voicemail. I need to know if you can get a picture of each one of them. I need to know where they live, like, their address where they live. I need to know where the both of them work. And I need to know if your daughter will not be in the house.


GRACE: You saw video from "The Courier-Journal."

And tonight, "Jon and Kate Plus 8," reality superstars -- after a bitter break-up, Kate brings her two oldest daughters on the "Today" show to convince the world they`re happy, and they want to be reality TV stars again.

But instead, both girls clam up, refusing to even suggest they`re happy, while mom Kate awkwardly tries to fill dead air on the "Today" show. That TV appearance ignites what`s shaping up to be the nastiest custody battle ever, as husband Jon threatens to snatch the six youngest children away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So how does one TV interview threaten to totally unravel this family?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jon -- he wants custody after seeing this interview between Kate and the older ones.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maddie (ph), your words. I don`t want to speak for them, but Maddie, go ahead. It`s your chance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you just said it.


GRACE: And after befriending an eight-months-pregnant Worcester woman, a female neighbor tricks her way into Mommy`s home to mount a fatal attack and murders the mom-to-be, physically cutting the baby out of the Mommy`s tummy, then posing as a radiant new mom. The murder trial begins. We are live at the courthouse.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours teen idol, multi-millionaire, multi- platinum seller Justin Bieber in a U.S. court of law. We are taking your calls.

Straight out to Bonnie Fuller, president and editor-in-chief of You know what? Granted, Bonnie, he is just a 19-year- old. Got to keep that in mind. The thing about the booze, all right -- he failed a field sobriety test. He bragged to cops that he was smoking pot, high on pot, doing weed all day long, that he was using prescription drugs.

What bugs me the most is that he spews the F-bomb at the cop over and over and over, and he`s in a residential neighborhood drag racing. That`s like being out in front of your house, Bonnie Fuller, your house at 4:00 AM, driving 60 miles an hour? Hello?

BONNIE FULLER, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Well, this is absolutely not good. It is terrible behavior. I don`t care whether he`s Justin Bieber or any 19- year-old, or anybody, for that matter. I think the combination of drinking, smoking weed, taking whatever prescription drugs he took, and then getting in a car and drag racing, going twice the speed limit -- it`s not good for him. It`s dangerous to himself. He endangered others. And it`s certainly not going to be good for his image or his career.

GRACE: Deborah Roberts joining me, anchor with Florida News Network. Deborah, this is 4:00 AM in a Miami residential area. The speed there is 30, 35 miles an hour. And Bieber`s posse had actually blocked off the road with black SUVs so he could drag race with some guy, Crazy Khalil (ph) with Def Jam Records, drag racing at 4:00 o`clock in the morning. Everybody`s high. Everybody`s drunk. This guy`s on prescription drugs, as well.

What more do we know? Why did the cop get so angry at him, Deborah Roberts?

DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETWORK (via telephone): Well, you know, my question, Nancy, is the person that they really should have gotten angry with, and in my opinion arrested, even though Justin may be 19 and legal age, was that Justin`s 38-year-old father, Jeremy (ph), was part of that crew that helped block off that residential street so his drunk and high 19-year-old son could drag race a friend.

GRACE: You know, that part is way over the top, that the father is there on the scene when this is going down and actually helps cordon the street off with black SUVs.

Out to the lines. Cindy. Hi, Cindy. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I`m calling from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, which is a half an hour away from him. He has too many yes men around him and not enough strong-willed non-enablers to say, Listen, what you`re doing is wrong.

And for his mom and dad to sit there and try to make the excuse that he`s a teenager -- I have a 23-year-old daughter who pays her own bills and lives in her own house, and I still step in when I know that she`s doing wrong and say, Hey, what are you doing? His parents need to stop living often his coattails...

GRACE: You know, here`s the thing, Cindy...


GRACE: Cindy, this doesn`t look to me like it`s going to change because his father`s the one blocking the traffic so the son can drag race. I mean, how much good is he?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because his father`s living off of his son`s coattails. Stop living off of your son`s fame and pull in the rails and give your son some parenting.

GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you this much. I keep trying to give him a break because he`s 19 years old. That`s still a juvenile. But -- well, under the law it`s not. But the reality is...


GRACE: Yes. If he had run over somebody, Cindy, it wouldn`t have mattered if he was 19 or 99. If there had been a kid out in that street -- you know how people get up early in the morning and they go jogging before going to work...


GRACE: ... make breakfast for their -- walk their dogs, the works. And he`s going out there 60 miles an hour while he`s high and drunk out of his gourd?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) because of a drunk driver. I was a widow at 25 because of a drunk driver.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And come on, he has little brothers and sisters. What are you doing? What are his parents doing?

GRACE: Out to Bonnie Fuller, president and editor-in-chief of Bonnie, is this going to go the way of Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton and all the rest of them that break the law, break the law, break the law, break the law, and what, do a night behind bars and that`s it?

FULLER: Well, let`s hope not. First of all, we`ve heard at Hollywoodlife that the fact he was arrested in Miami, in Florida, is actually significant. Apparently, he will face a tougher treatment than if he was arrested in California, where the jails are crowded, and also where there seems to be more leniency toward celebrities.

And in fact, the mayor of Miami has said that he wants to make an example out of Justin Bieber. Now, I think that`s unfortunate because I do think that Justin does have a chance to turn this around, despite the fact that his father was there. He`s done a lot of good in the past. And he`s clearly off in the wrong direction right now...

GRACE: Well, you know what, Bonnie? I appreciate what you`re saying, that he`s done good in the past. But this is not just egging a house. This is not just urinating in a bucket in public. This is not a little bit of graffiti or sending Selena Gomez pictures of his private parts, all right? This is endangering people in a residential -- the kind of neighborhood where everybody wants to live, you know, the quiet neighborhood with grass in the front yard. And there`s the dad egging him on?

We are taking your calls. Out to Bernadette. Hi, Bernadette. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I have a 7-year-old that thinks the world of him, and he needs to start setting a better example because he`s a role model to a lot of young children. And he needs to keep in mind that he`s not an ordinary 19-year-old. Like, he has responsibilities to his young viewers. And I was wondering, is he going to be adult enough to apologize to all these young children?

GRACE: I highly doubt, unless his PR people can extract some control over him.

All right, joining me right now, the president of National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws, Norm Kent out of Ft. Lauderdale. Also with me is Jeff Vanvonderen, board-certified interventionist, also featured on A&E`s series "Intervention."

To both of you gentlemen, welcome. All right, Norm Kent, here you go, basically in your back yard. You`ve got somebody high on weed drag racing. But according to you, it`s OK to lay around the house all day long and get high. Don`t you think people have to leave the house sometime? He`s on pot. He admits to the police he`s on pot. He`s 19.

NORM KENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR REFORM OF MARIJUANA LAWS: Actually, the only sane thing he may have done during the course of those 24 hours is smoke a joint.

He is a victim here. He is being victimized not only by the press, but let`s look at this from your prosecutorial light. He starts out with a police escort from the Opa Locka police. The crew blocks the street for him. Some bar or alcoholic beverage establishment sells him liquor that he`s not allowed to have. Somebody rents him a car he shouldn`t have because he`s unlicensed.

Everybody is using him the way they used Michael Jackson. And it`s time somebody stood up and spoke up for Justin Bieber. The Bieb is being brutalized.

GRACE: OK, Norm Kent, you have just blamed everybody but the guy behind the wheel that`s drunk and high. OK. Jeff, Jeff Vanvonderen. I want to get that correct. Explain.


GRACE: Thank you. Jeff, I`d like to hear a response to Norm.

VANVONDEREN: Well, I mean, I think that Norm`s (INAUDIBLE) hold people accountable for their actions and end up being addicts. This is what I`ve been dealing with for 30 years. You know, the thing is that with him, first of all, it was illegal for him to (INAUDIBLE) I`m sure. It was illegal for the bar to serve him that...

GRACE: Hold on, Jeff. Jeff, you`re cutting out on me. In the meantime, I want to bring back in Norm Kent and Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Bethany, as I`m listening Norm Kent go on and on, he is blaming the police that welcome Bieber and give him an escort to start with in Florida, the place that sold the booze, the nightclub that he was at. I can`t remember the name of that -- Set (ph) -- Set nightclub -- and everybody around him.

Now, you know what? That defies every piece of logic, every bit of logic about self-determination I`ve ever heard.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: And you know what? How your guest is talking is just how addicts think. They blame everybody but themselves. They notoriously lack insight into potential negative consequences of their actions. And what we really are seeing about the Bieb, as we saw with Charlie Sheen and Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, all of these other stars, is that nobody wants to rein them in. Everybody`s on the gravy train. Everybody...

GRACE: So Norm, why are you blaming everybody but Bieber?

KENT: Actually, ultimately, he`s the one that`s going to stand naked before the cannon (ph) and before a court of law...

GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re saying. Naked in front of a cannon? What are you talking about?

MARSHALL: Norm is making...


KENT: Well, it`s an analogy, Nancy.


KENT: He`s the individual...

GRACE: Naked in front of a cannon?

KENT: ... who will have -- yes. Don`t you remember Tiananmen Square, when a courageous young student stood up against the Chinese -- what I`m saying...

GRACE: So you`re comparing -- whoa! Whoa! You`re comparing Bieber, who`s drunk and high and drag racing in somebody`s front yard, to the guy that risked his life in Tiananmen Square?

KENT: I understand those are the allegations...


GRACE: Now I know you`re high on pot, man, to compare Bieber to that?


KENT: Nancy, I could not get high enough to do a show with you. But the truth is that...


GRACE: You`re stone cold sober, then, aren`t you? Is that what you`re saying?

KENT: Yes. Nancy, this young man will ultimately face a court of justice. But in the court that we...

GRACE: In the meantime, people like you...

KENT: No, no. Think about how many people are unduly influencing him, unjustly creating a situation for him that never should have happened...

GRACE: OK, I`ve got...

KENT: Like Michael Jackson, he`s being abused by his managers.

GRACE: ... Vanvonderen...


MARSHALL: Norm, Norm, nobody`s influencing him. The problem is that nobody`s stopping him. That`s the problem. The fact is, he is having no negative consequences to his actions.

GRACE: OK, I think I`ve got Jeff back. All right, Jeff, weigh in while I`ve got a clear satellite with you. Go ahead.

VANVONDEREN: This is very typical, you know, and the thinking is the problem`s not the problem. Noticing the problem is the problem, talking about the problem is the problem. And so that lets Bieber off the hook. But basically, you know, if this guy`s right and he is -- and Bieber`s so weak that he can be unduly influenced by all these people, then he shouldn`t be using alcohol or pot anyway.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby-faced pop star has been in the headlines lately for all the wrong reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drag racing, he had consumed some alcohol and had been smoking marijuana and consumed some prescription medication.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Bieber, you are charged with the following -- DUI alcohol or drugs, resisting without violence and driving with an expired driver`s license.


GRACE: You just saw a video of Bieber performing from YouTube and Island Def Jam Records. Before that, you saw him in a court of law just a couple hours ago, Bieber arrested for being drunk while driving, driving under the influence, admitted to cops that he had been, quote, "smoking weed all day long" at his house, on prescription drugs, resisting arrest of an officer, spewing the F-word repeatedly at a police officer, and not only that, drag racing in a bright yellow Lamborghini in a residential neighborhood.

All right, Justin Freiman, what more can you tell me about the facts as they occurred?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, the police saw the car speeding down. When they finally stopped him, Bieber got out. Bieber rolled down his window. He said, Why did you stop me? It was at that point that the police could smell alcohol on his breath.

They asked him to get out of the car. He once again says, Why the F are you doing this to me? The police told him to put his hands on the car, something that he would not do. He kept turning back towards them, instead of facing away and putting his hands on the vehicle. And then he actually said to them, I ain`t got no F-ing weapons. Why do you have to search me? What the F is this all about?

GRACE: Now, we were told earlier that Bieber`s father actually helped clear the road for him to drag race. But as of right now, we can`t confirm Bieber`s father was there.


GRACE: Everybody, welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace, and we are taking you live, in the past hours, Justin Bieber in a court of law.

Out to the lines. Catherine, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was pretty much having a good comment -- and by the way, Nancy Grace, you are an awesome woman. Keep up the great job.

GRACE: I`m going to try, Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My thing is this. If it was a Hispanic person or a Latino person, they`d be deported immediately. So why won`t they do that for the Biebster? I mean, isn`t it the same thing?

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kimberly Priest Johnson, Dallas, Brian Claypool, LA. First you, Claypool. She`s got a point. If this were someone else, they`d be deported.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let`s not rush to judgment too quick, Nancy. You`ve got to have two things to deport...

GRACE: What are you talking about, rush to judgment? He already admitted he was smoking weed all day.

CLAYPOOL: Nancy, you`ve got to make a new year`s resolution to not burn the Constitution. You have to be convicted of a crime before you can be deported.

GRACE: Mr. Claypool, let me advise you that I...

CLAYPOOL: He has to have two convictions...

GRACE: You can cut his mike -- that not only did I practice...

CLAYPOOL: ... involving the loss of...

GRACE: ... in felony courts of law, but argued to appellate courts and received a specialized degree in specifically constitutional law. So please do not tell me what to do with the Constitution, although I`ll be happy to tell you what you can do with the Constitution. Obviously, any type of deportation would require appropriate hearings. That goes without saying.

Now, you can pick up there, Claypool.

CLAYPOOL: Thanks, Nancy. Your flowers are in the mail. You need two convictions that involve moral turpitude to try to deport Justin Bieber. So he hasn`t been convicted of anything yet, Nancy, number one.

Number two, even if there is a conviction, you have to show it involved moral turpitude. And arguably, drag racing and resisting arrest don`t involve moral turpitude. He`s got to worry more about the DUI than anything. If I`m his lawyer, I`m going to fight the DUI on the grounds that it`s a highly subjective test. The sobriety test is highly subjective, Nancy. And resisting arrest is a catchall.

GRACE: To Kimberly Priest Johnson. Weigh in, Kimberly.

KIMBERLY PRIEST JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, again, the offenses he`s been charged with -- they`re not -- they`re not causes for deportation. Now, yes, he does need to be careful because he gets several of these, you know, immigration and customs can come in and look at him. And it`s my understanding that there`s already a petition under way to have him deported. So he does need to be careful. But at this point, no one would be deported, even if they were convicted on this particular offense.

GRACE: Now, let me advise both of you that deportation is not based solely on a crime of moral turpitude. A felony will get you deported. So I advise you, Mr. Claypool...

CLAYPOOL: It has to be an aggravated felony, Nancy. It has to be an aggravated felony, and none of those apply here.

GRACE: Brian, we don`t know what the charges are going to be. But I can tell you this. Fighting with a police officer can easily be considered as a felony. So we`ll see what unfolds. I don`t think there`s going to be a felony. I agree with you on that. Deportation is another matter.

Everybody, when we come back, seeing is believing. A Louisville woman tries to hire a hitman to murder her ex-husband and his brand-new wife. We have the video.


GRACE: Seeing is believing. A Louisville woman tries to hire a hit man to murder her ex-husband and his brand new wife. We have the video.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re done with this, burn it up, push it down the toilet.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you call this, it will go right to voicemail. I need to know if you can get a picture of each one of them. I know to know where they live. Like their address, where they live. I need to know where the both of them work. And I know if your daughter will not be in the house. Which you would not be in that house. All right?

Put that in some envelope, tape it up real good, and if you got all the ready and then half of the money. If you got all that ready, call that number.

STAKELBECK: I`m just trying to figure out how I`m going to -- I mean, I have to take a picture of them, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they have to be together. I don`t care. I just need to know exactly what she looks like so I --

STAKELBECK: But you don`t think that those pictures -- do you -- do you think the pictures that is -- if I showed you if I get a copy of those is that good enough?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That will be fine. As long as I can see their face like they are kissing, the ones they are together --


GRACE: You are seeing undercover surveillance video obtained by the "Courier Journal."

I can`t believe it. She`s caught on video, and there you see the twisted ex-wife discussing the financial terms of the deal. And the hit man says once you give me the money the man is dead and she, the new wife, is dead.

"Ain`t no going back. You won`t have any way of getting hold of me." She goes through it bit by bit, detail by detail, to murder her ex-husband and his brand new wife. And she wants them dead before the next custody hearing.

Out to Phil Trexler, reporter "Akron Beacon Journal."

Phil, in fact she even goes on to say, and I`m quoting, "If I want to play the dumb card, I have papers by a neurologist to say that I`m dumb." She talks about using painkillers, sleeping aids, and a brain injury as a potential defense.

PHIL TREXLER, REPORTER, AKRON BEACON JOURNAL: Yes, Nancy, this is a pretty volatile child custody dispute in which Elizabeth Stakelbeck is trying to essentially take the judge out of the equation and put the decision of the child custody issue in the hands of a hit man, is potentially what she`s trying to do, is to have her ex-husband and his new wife knocked off so she could have full custody of their 7-year-old daughter.

GRACE: Incredible. And not only that -- out to you, Kyle Peltz, you`re on the story as well -- she actually tells the hit man that Child Protective Services, CPS, has already questioned her because they think she`s been coaching her daughter to make allegations against the father. So she`s already being questioned about that by Child Protective Services, Kyle.

KYLE PELTZ, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s absolutely correct, Nancy. And she`s even quoted saying that she would rather kill her own daughter and then commit suicide than the ex-husband get full custody.

And what`s also interesting, Nancy, is this mom was told the hit would cost $2,000, one grand for her ex-husband and one grand for his wife. Well, apparently, that was just too much money. So she offered not just prescription drugs but sex, too. She actually offered her body to this alleged hit man, which means she really wanted her ex-husband dead.

GRACE: Basically, would do anything to see the ex-husband and his new wife dead. We have the video.

Joining me right now is a very special guest, Leland Hulbert, prosecuting the case against Elizabeth Stakelbeck.

Thank you so much for being with us, Leland. I mean, in so many cases that I would try, the defense would say, you know, you can`t prove it, you can`t prove it, you don`t have a video. Well, you`ve got the video.

LELAND HULBERT, PROSECUTING CASE AGAINST KILLER MOM: Yes. It`s definitely helpful to the case. So many of our cases and so many of our jurors like to see high-tech evidence, videos, crime scene things. And as you know, it`s so rare to have someone actually caught on video, pretty much confessing to a crime or at least their intent to plan a crime.

GRACE: Incredible. Hey, Leland Hulbert, everyone, joining me, prosecuting this case.

Leland, did the husband, the ex-husband and his new wife have any idea that she hated them so much she wanted them dead?

HULBERT: From my understanding, they had some difficulties in their custody dispute through family court. But when they were told that she was plotting to kill them, I think it came as an absolute shock and surprise to them.

GRACE: Leland, a question. This woman right there on the video -- we`re about to show you some more video, everybody. This woman caught on video hiring a hit man to murder her ex-husband and his new wife. She lays out all of her defense. And she goes, oh, well, I was in a car crash. I could say I`ve got a brain injury. Or I take sleeping pills or drugs. I could always say that.

I think I`ve got Leland with me.


GRACE: Leland?

HULBERT: No, she definitely -- I didn`t know if you were playing the video or -- no, she makes a lot of statements in that video that I don`t think are going to help her. You know, obviously part of the element we have to prove is that she intended for all this to eventually happen. And we think the video will obviously be helpful in proving her intent.

GRACE: Well, Leland Hulbert, you`re a mighty fine prosecutor, but I`ve got to tell you, I think in this case the video will be the star. Let`s take a look at this 34-year-old mom who says she`d rather see her daughter dead than her husband get the daughter, so she hires a hit man to murder her ex- husband and his brand new wife. Take a listen.


STAKELBECK: I should make sure that Zoe and I are safe. Well, if there`s other people knowing about this, I don`t know if your are hang out and stuff like, you know -- I`m sure you`re not going to be listing my name.

UNKNOWN: The people that do this for a profession, that are professionals, actually make a lot of money doing this.

This is a nasty business. I don`t even want to -- what their price.

STAKELBECK: Yes, you don`t touch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, of course not.

STAKELBECK: All right. Well, thank you very much for coming over here. I don`t know how he`s going to get you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t leave about 10 minutes later I`m going to leave. I don`t want to be seen with you. I should not be seen.

STAKELBECK: OK. Thank you.


GRACE: They had no idea she hated them enough to kill them.

Everybody, when we come back, "Jon and Kate Plus Eight," a TV appearance ignites what`s shaping up to be the nastiest custody battle ever.


GRACE: "Jon and Kate Plus Eight." Reality TV royalty until a TV appearance ignites what`s shaping up to be the nastiest custody battle ever.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One of the most awkward moments on live TV. It`s Kate Gosselin on the "Today" show with her twin 13-year-old daughters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard. It`s a hard question. What about you, Cara?

KATE GOSSELIN, REALITY TV STAR: So this is their chance to talk. This is the most wordless I`ve heard them all morning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He now wants primary custody of the 9-year-old sextuplets.


GRACE: That`s Kate Gosselin and her 13-year-old twin daughters on NBC`s "Today" show.

Well, you know what? Bonnie Fuller, president, editor in chief of, they picked a heck of a time to clam up.

BONNIE FULLER, PRESIDENT/EDITOR IN CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: They certainly did. First they went on the "Today" show, and then they went on "The View," and they did the exact same thing. Kate really wanted her --

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Put Bonnie back up.

They left there and then go clam up on "The View"?

FULLER: That`s right. They --

GRACE: How mad was Kate Gosselin? Did she just like totally go berserk in the green room after that?

FULLER: Well, there were reports that she told the girls that they had embarrassed mommy. Now she did that after the "Today" show. However, that didn`t stop her from then going across town and still putting an appearance on "The View." And of course on "The View" the twins did the same thing. They got -- they lost their tongues.

And Jon Gosselin, their father, said -- he told Hollywood Life that he thought they were just terrified. They didn`t want to say the same thing so they froze. And that`s one of the reasons that he is suing now for custody of the 9-year-old sextuplets.

GRACE: Oh, OK. But you know what`s interesting, Bonnie, and let me throw this to you, Bethany. Bethany Marshall with me, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers."

Something Bonnie just brought up, Bethany, he only wants the sextuplets. He`s not saying, hey, I want my children back. He`s going, yes, yes, you can have the two girls but I want the six. OK.



GRACE: Wrong.

MARSHALL: It`s wrong because these two 13-year-olds have gotten consistently thrown under the bus. Their younger siblings have been in the limelight. They have not been the focus of attention. Apparently, according to one report, the father said that if he would give Kate the right to put them in a new reality television show as long as he didn`t have to pay child support, so he has not been concerned about their needs.

I think they clammed up because they`re mad at their mother. Primarily. I mean, they`re not frightened, Nancy. These girls have been raised in front of the camera. So it doesn`t make any sense that they would become so frightened because the cameras are rolling.

GRACE: Let`s take a look at what happened. Let`s take a look at what happened.

MARSHALL: All right.

GRACE: What are they trying to make a reality -- a reality show comeback? Is that why they`re having this appearance, Bonnie? Is that why they`re on the "Today" show and "The View"?

FULLER: I would have to guess that that is the plan.


FULLER: That they`ve been out of the of the limelight for a while and Kate just organized a cover of "People" magazine in which she and the two 13- year-olds were photographed for. So I would say since she`s unemployed she`s probably looking to --

GRACE: All right. OK. Let`s see what happened on the "Today" show. And apparently, this appearance got under Jon Gosselin`s skin so badly, not only the appearance, but he is supposed to reportedly be able to keep all the other children whenever she, Kate Gosselin, is away on business, and he says he was not afforded his chance to see the children.

But what got everybody so crazy? Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maddie, what would you want to say about how you and your sister and your family are doing?

GOSSELIN: Maddie? Your words. It`s your chance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s hard. It`s a hard question. What about you, Cara? So this is their chance to talk. This is the most wordless I`ve heard them all morning.

GOSSELIN: Yes. I -- I don`t want to speak for them, but Maddie, go ahead. Sort of the things that you said in the magazine, about years later they`re good, they`re fine.

Go for it, Mad. It`s your chance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you just said it.

GOSSELIN: I said it.


GRACE: OK, yes. That did not go well.

Everybody, that`s Kate Gosselin and her 13-year-old twin daughters on NBC`s "Today" show. But I`m not so sure -- Vickie Ziegler`s joining me, family law attorney, that that`s grounds for Jon Gosselin to snatch the six younger children away.

VIKKI ZIEGLER, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Right, Nancy. I mean, at this point there has to be a substantial change in circumstance in order for this court to take a look at whether or not custody should be changed or modified in any fashion. So the question of course is always the best interest of the children. And is Jon more of a stable parent than Kate is?

And quite frankly, Nancy, courts do not like breaking families apart, especially siblings, and to pick and choose, to say I want to have the six but you can keep the other two seems a little egregious and unfair. So I don`t necessarily know if a court`s going to even entertain a change in custody.

Now if there was a violation of a court order and Jon was supposed to see the children and Kate didn`t afford him the right when she traveled, that`s a different story. That`s a violation of the current custody agreement. But at this point it`s going to be his burden to show that he`s a better parent. And I`m not so sure these interviews, while awkward, would really meet that test.

GRACE: I agree. I don`t think this is grounds for a custody battle. However, I think that as these children age and they find out that their dad asked for the six but not the two older daughters, I mean, can you imagine as you grow up? Yes, daddy wanted them and not me. That -- no.

See, I think a court -- a judge is going to look at that request itself and see that it is way, way askew. Plus breaking up the family that`s already been through so much.

When we come back, a female neighbor tricks her way into mommy`s home to mount a fatal attack, murdering the mom-to-be, physically cutting the baby girl out of mommy`s tummy. Today, day one of the trial. We are live at the courthouse.


GRACE: A neighbor tricks her way into mommy`s home and mounts a fatal attack. She murders the mom-to-be, physically cutting a baby girl out of mommy`s tummy.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Documents revealed Julie Corey showed up at her boyfriend`s house with a new baby just hours after the victim was last seen alive. Corey`s friend told cops that Corey called her multiple times the night of the murder. And during one call she heard a baby crying in the background.

Those same phone records showed this was before Corey told her own boyfriend that her water broke and she was going to the hospital.


GRACE: Joining me at the courthouse, Alexis Weed.

Alexis, was the defendant in court today? What was her demeanor in front of the jurors? Has her appearance changed at all?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The defendant, yes, she was present. She sat at the end of her counsel`s table. She sat very idly, very quietly. She looks rather demure, actually. Not the kind of person that you could foresee just by looking at her in the courtroom would have committed such a terrible crime, such a heinous crime. And her hair was pulled back off her face. She didn`t have any makeup on.

She looked, I guess, cleaned up compared to some of those arrest videos that we`ve seen. But all in all, she was rather quiet, sat with her hands folded in front of her lap. She didn`t pay a lot of attention to the questions that the judges were posing to these jurors.

GRACE: That is Alexis Weed, standing by at the courthouse. The trial starts today, day one.

Alexis, any ideas about the evidence for the state and the defense?

WEED: Right. So at this point, the defense is saying -- and we know this from motions that were filed in this case. The defense is saying that there`s no link to tie Julie Corey to the killing of the victim and they`re saying that the state`s case, that it`s all circumstantial. But what we do know also from the state`s responsive motion is that they have evidence of fingerprints, Julie Corey`s fingerprints in that bedroom where the victim`s body was found.

And also there was a text message that we`ve heard was sent from Corey`s phone to a friend saying that she was enjoying some wine coolers with a friend. So if the cell phone records, if they exist, if they can place Corey at that home at the time when the murder would have taken place, that should be pretty significant evidence.

Of course, the judge decided that that was plenty of evidence in order to get over the hurdle of the motion to dismiss.

GRACE: Alexis, what do you know about possible witnesses?

WEED: So far the judge has questioned about 50 jurors, 75 were here today to be questioned. The judge is rolling through these jurors really quickly. The defense attorneys and the prosecution, they both can make challenges. But in this case, in this court, it`s the judge who poses the question to perspective jurors to decide whether they`ll make the cut.


GRACE: To Dr. Ann Contrucci out of Atlanta.

Dr. Contrucci, how slow and painful was the mother`s death?

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PEDIATRICIAN: Well, Nancy, that`s a really good question. I would like to think it was very, very quick, you know. If she wasn`t bludgeoned to death and already unconscious from the head trauma or from the strangulation, you know, in terms of the gutting her, as you said, she would have bled to death very, very quickly. Within a matter of minutes. But if -- if she was still conscious, it would have been excessively painful, because you`re going through a whole lot of tissue to get to a baby and going through the uterus. I can`t even believe how horrific this is.

GRACE: Joining me, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert.

How will the phone records play such a big role in this case, Ben?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, I think phone records show premeditation. She calls her boyfriend from the mother`s house and she blocks the caller I.D. so, the boyfriend is talking to her, and she establishes an alibi with him.

GRACE: Also with us, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host.

Dave, the level of violence in this case is incredible. As Dr. Contrucci said, cutting through all that tissue. That is one of the strongest muscles in the body is the urine muscle.

DAVE MACK, MORNING TALK SHOW HOST, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX RADIO: You know, the amazing thing about this, Nancy, is that we do have -- we can place the accused in the bedroom. We can do that. And we can put her right there with a hammer in her hand and strangling and cutting through in the most violent fashion. It was so personal.

GRACE: With us at the courthouse, Alexis Weed. Today, day one in the trial. We`ll be there for the duration.

Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Col. John McHugh, 46, Newark New Jersey, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, two Bronze Stars, a West Point grad. Loves soccer and baseball. Parents James and Mary, one sister, two brothers, widow, Connie, five children, one served in the army, one grandchild.

John McHugh, American hero.

Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.