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Nancy Grace
Stand Your Ground Killing in Jacksonville; Dealers Arrested in Hoffman Overdose Death
Aired February 05, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live. Murder in Jacksonville. A 47-year-old man guns down a youth after they argue over the kid`s loud music at a gas station. After shooting the youth twice in the back and groin, he speeds off two hours away, never bothering to call police.
Bombshell tonight. It`s George Zimmerman all over again, 47-year-old Michael Dunn claims self-defense. Tonight, in the last hours, we obtain the stunning 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) kid in a car, and we got a guy who shot (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, do you guys mind turning that down?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feared for my life. They threatened to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over loud music, there`s no reason to shoot! That`s no reason to kill anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a Hollywood superstar dead inside an exclusive Greenwich Village apartment, unresponsive on the bathroom floor, at least 70 bags of heroin strewn throughout his multi-million-dollar home. Grainy surveillance video surfaces just before his death. What does it reveal? In the last hours, police zero in on four deadly dealers. Will they be charged with the star`s murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested three men and a woman who they believe are connected to the drugs found in Philip Seymour Hoffman`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where a law enforcement source says he withdrew $1,200 from an ATM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, You don`t recognize me. He said, Well, I`m a heroin addict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And a woman drives drunk for miles and miles through LA suburbs with a dying man stuck on her windshield. She didn`t notice the dying man stuck on her windshield? Was she that drunk? PS, she`s a substance abuse counselor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This intersection was the scene where 31-year- old Philip Moreno (ph) was struck and killed by a suspected drunk driver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just sick to my stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her statement to us that she was panicked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was doing the right thing, and he was walking and he had his life taken from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, TV star David Cassidy, best known for his role in "The Partridge Family," DUI again?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stole the hearts of women around the world, but now heartthrob David Cassidy is facing serious allegations of driving under the influence of alcohol.
DAVID CASSIDY, ACTOR: They created this illusion that I was somehow or another perfect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Murder in Jacksonville, a 47-year-old white man guns down a black youth after they argue over the kid`s loud music at a gas station. After shooting the youth twice in the back and groin, the shooter drives off two hours away, never bothering to call police. Sounds like George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin all over again, Michael Dunn now claiming self-defense. Let me remind you he shot the boy in the back, but is claiming self-defense.
Tonight, in the last hours, we obtain the stunning 911 call. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, may I help you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just leaving the loop over by the Meadows. We heard what it sounded like to be some really weak gunshots.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) Loop, you said?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?
911 OPERATOR: The loop on Bay Meadows?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. The loop over by the Meadows?
911 OPERATOR: OK, what road is it on? I don`t have a Bay Meadows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: South side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: South Side?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s South side in Bay Meadows.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was coming from over by the gas station, and then a red -- it looked like a Dodge Durango, but I can`t be sure. It was, like, a red SUV came hauling ass around the corner. Two black males stepped out, and I`m not sure whether they just took off through (INAUDIBLE) cop`s sitting across the street with somebody (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, hold on. From the red -- the two black males came from the red SUV?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
911 OPERATOR: OK, so the red SUV pulled up and the two black males got out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. They didn`t even pull into a parking spot, they just pulled into the lot, and, like, the driver stepped out. He looked like a black male with kind of, like, longer hair. I couldn`t really tell if he had dreads or not, kind of dark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, straight out to Frank Taaffe, who supports the "stand your ground" defense. Taaffe, that didn`t sound like it was the shooter, Michael Dunn, calling police that he was under attack at a gas station and that he had fired eight rounds. That sounded like a bystander. Why didn`t Dunn call police?
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Well, let`s get the facts straight in this case, Nancy. Number one, it`s just not about loud music. It was the aftermath of when Jordan Davis threatened Michael Dunn`s life. And according to Michael Dunn in his police interview, which he did not -- he remained consistent for a three-hour police interview...
GRACE: I`m just asking you...
TAAFFE: ... that his life was being threatened.
GRACE: ... why didn`t he call police. If you could answer that...
TAAFFE: Well, you know what?
GRACE: ... that would be great. If not...
TAAFFE: Look, let me ask you...
GRACE: ... just, you know, give it up. Surrender.
TAAFFE: OK, well, let me answer it! Let me answer it! There`s no guidebook that says after you shoot somebody that you have to call 911.
GRACE: Really?
TAAFFE: Maybe he went -- maybe he zoned out. We don`t know. But it`s not about loud music. And also...
GRACE: Well, actually, he didn`t zone out. OK, he didn`t zone out.
TAAFFE: Well, listen, you keep saying...
GRACE: He drove -- no, you listen, Taaffe! He drove two hours away to his fiancee`s home, and first he stopped for pizza. So he didn`t zone out.
All right, you know what? Out to you, Matt Augustine, reporter, WOKV. He`s there at the courthouse. Matt, thanks for being with us. The big news in the courtroom is that the family and the press is going to be in the courtroom to see the trial. Now, many people had tried to make legal motions to keep the media out. It failed. The judge is going to allow the media in.
But Matt -- Matt joining me from WOKV there in Jacksonville -- Matt, isn`t it true that police say Michael Dunn opened fire, unloading eight rounds, then he drives two hours away and orders a pizza?
MATT AUGUSTINE, WOKV: Well, actually, Nancy, I think he ordered the pizza before he drove two hours away.
GRACE: Ah. Thank you.
AUGUSTINE: Basically, that happened -- yes, no, I -- either way, he did still order a pizza after this all happened, after driving away from the gas station where he had just unloaded, as you said, eight or nine rounds into this vehicle, hitting Jordan Davis in the back and groin.
Yes, he drove back to his hotel room here in Jacksonville because he was in town for his son`s wedding, and the reason they stopped at the gas station in the first place was because his wife had wanted to pick up a bottle of wine, and it just so happened that...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! What, what, what, what, whoa, stop! Matt, WOKV...
AUGUSTINE: Yes?
GRACE: He had the pizza. He went and order a pizza immediately after he guns down this kid over the loud music, and he had sent his girlfriend in to get yet more booze? Didn`t they just come from a wedding reception where he admits he had three rum drinks there? Now he wants more?
AUGUSTINE: He did. This was actually -- that was what brought them to the gas station in the first place, Nancy, was the bottle of wine. And he was waiting in the car while his wife -- or sorry, his girlfriend was in the store getting that bottle of wine. And that`s when Jordan Davis and his three friends pulled up in the red Dodge Durango. And that`s, of course, where the argument kind of started.
Michael Dunn allegedly heard this music, and he says that he leaned out the window and said, Could you please turn it down, you know, very nicely. If you ask the three boys who were in the car that are still living, they`ll tell you that he said something to the effect of, Will you please that BF (ph) down. I can`t even hear myself think. So it`s kind of like a "he said, she said" sort of thing, and that`s pretty much when we understand the bullets start flying.
As you said before, Michael Dunn is claiming self-defense. He claims that he saw the barrel of a gun in his car and he heard one of the teenagers in the car say, you know, Screw this guy, we don`t need to listen to him. Turn that music back up. We don`t know this guy. We don`t absolutely need to listen to him.
And that`s when the bullets started flying, and that`s when Michael Dunn left.
GRACE: Multiple gunshot wounds to the chest, back and groin, this 47- year-old white male unloading on a youth over music.
Let`s unleash Frank Taaffe, friend of George Zimmerman, supports "stand your ground" law, and Daryl Parks, Civil Rights lawyer, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family.
Frank Taaffe, so you just said that he, quote, "zoned out." He didn`t zone out. He went and ordered a pizza, and then he drove two hours away, trying to run from police. That`s not zoning out.
TAAFFE: Well, let me have a drink of my Shirley Temple Taaffe first, and then we`ll discuss it. You got these facts all wrong...
GRACE: You better drink it. You`re going to need it.
TAAFFE: Well, OK...
GRACE: What facts do we have wrong, Taaffe?
TAAFFE: Well, I`ll have a double. OK, number one, the driver of the vehicle, Tommy Stornes (ph), who`s going to be called as a witness, is a convicted felon, OK?
GRACE: OK, don`t care.
TAAFFE: And in that Durango -- OK, well, how are you going to play that to a jury? What`s -- what`s -- where`s the credibility, OK?
GRACE: This is how I play it to a jury.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, no, no. Don`t ask a question and not wait for the answer.
TAAFFE: He didn`t walk up and...
GRACE: Daryl Parks...
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: It was a defensive wound!
GRACE: Daryl Parks, this...
TAAFFE: He turned away as the bullets came.
GRACE: OK, cut his mike. Daryl Parks, this is how I would handle one of the kids in that car having a record like this. I would tell the jury in my opening statement, Some of the people in the car have a criminal history, and you`re going to hear about that. Now, let`s talk about what happened that night and why Jordan Davis is dead.
That`s what I would do. I would tell the jury the truth right up front. And I would also say to the jury in opening statements that, You know what? This case isn`t about nuns and priests and virgins. I take my witnesses the way I find them, and I and you will determine their credibility, Mr. Parks.
And then I will say, I don`t care who`s telling the story. What jibes with this gas station video? Because that`s going to tell the truth, Daryl.
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: Sure.
GRACE: So what do you do? What`s your response to Taaffe that one of the kids in the car has a record?
PARKS: Without question, Nancy, there are some people who try to try cases using information that has nothing to do with whether or not this should have happened. No way in the world should this have happened in a situation where these kids were playing music, not doing anything else, this guy feels offended by it and decides that he wants to shoot into the car. That`s totally unacceptable, and I think that this jury will find it as such.
GRACE: Out to Michael Christian, also on the story. Michael, voir dire jury selection under way right now. Tell me the latest.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST (via telephone): It looks like this trial will most likely start tomorrow, Thursday, Nancy. The judge is saying that it`s going to last about two weeks. And this jury, once it`s selected, it will be 12 people, and four alternates, will be sequestered.
GRACE: In the last hours, we have also obtained a statement by the girlfriend, Michael Dunn`s girlfriend. Now, this is the woman -- he sits in the car. He`s not there getting gas, apparently. He sits in the car and sends his girlfriend in to buy booze. This is after they`re already boozed up at a wedding reception.
Take a listen to what the girlfriend has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, I feared for my life. I said, Why? And he said, They threatened to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And then he also told you that at some point, they were dancing (ph)...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to him (ph). But he didn`t elaborate on what the dancing was?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you are hearing the girlfriend. And here`s the kicker, Frank Taaffe and Daryl Parks. Frank Taaffe, she better be glad that she didn`t have anything to do with this, and hopefully, she didn`t aid and abet him. Is she cooperating with police?
TAAFFE: You know what, Nancy? What Parks is saying sounds like bull feces to me, OK? I like to use that word...
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you!
TAAFFE: ... bull feces.
GRACE: I`m asking you about...
TAAFFE: He is being truthful.
GRACE: ... the girlfriend.
TAAFFE: He -- yes, his fiancee. It`s not his wife, like the reporter said...
GRACE: OK, fiancee.
TAAFFE: It`s his fiancee.
GRACE: Whatever!
TAAFFE: No, it`s a big difference between a fiancee and a wife, OK?
GRACE: Is she cooperating with police?
TAAFFE: Yes. She cooperated fully. And in her interview, if you listen to it, she stated exactly what Michael Dunn shared with her on the way back to the hotel. They didn`t drive two hours eating a pizza long the way, OK? It wasn`t...
GRACE: They did drive two hours away.
TAAFFE: ... Domino`s to take out, OK? They drove back to the hotel and they ordered a pizza. The next day, they returned back to their oceanfront condo in Melbourne, Florida, and that`s where the police apprehended him and took him into custody. Those are the facts of the case.
GRACE: Michael Christian, isn`t it true that police apprehended Michael Dunn because witnesses got his tag number, not because of anything he did, and he did flee two hours away. Isn`t that true, Michael Christian?
CHRISTIAN: It is absolutely true, Nancy, that the witnesses on the scene saw his license number...
GRACE: Don`t roll your eyes, Taaffe! Hold on, Christian. Taaffe, this is -- there`s a dead kid. You can stop with rolling the eyes.
Go ahead, Christian.
CHRISTIAN: Dunn says -- Mr. Dunn says that he did not realize anything had happened, that he`d hit anyone, until the next morning, and that he decided to drive back home at that point and turn himself in there.
GRACE: He didn`t realize he hit somebody?
CHRISTIAN: That`s what he said, I believe. That`s what he told police.
GRACE: OK, what about that, Taaffe? He didn`t know he hit somebody?
TAAFFE: He drove off. And let me go back to him shooting eight shots...
GRACE: But wait. Didn`t he tell his girlfriend that he fired on the kid because he thought they were...
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: ... in fear for his life. She told the police interviewer, in that interview she shared with them that he kept stating that he was in fear for his life. Do you get it? Fear for his life!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 47-year-old man claims self-defense after unloading eight bullets, hitting black youths in the car next to him at the gas station after he complains and starts a fight about their music.
Joining me, Frank Taaffe, supports "stand your ground" law and spokesperson for George Zimmerman, Daryl Parks, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family.
Frank Taaffe, your guy, George Zimmerman, is now claiming he wants to do a charity boxing match, and the first name thrown around was Chyna (ph), the female wrestler? I mean, what could be more humiliating than George Zimmerman getting a beatdown by a woman? Now there`s DMX (ph) and the game. Now, are you willing to pledge right here that George Zimmerman is not going to see one penny of that money, not one penny?
TAAFFE: Absolutely. I believe him. You know what? I would volunteer that he might want to do, like, a celebrity golf tournament, and hopefully, it`s not a shotgun start.
GRACE: So Daryl Parks, do you believe that for one minute? It`s just blood money, just like the last two art works that Zimmerman traced. The AP busted him on tracing it and selling it or trying to sell his artwork, and Zimmerman makes $100,000 off his other art on line? Now a boxing match, George Zimmerman wants to fight Chyna, the female wrestler?
PARKS: Miss, let me say this. And I think, first and foremost, we have to remember that Trayvon Martin lost his life in the incident with George Zimmerman, and it is an outright disrespect for anything of this sort, the whole thing that`s going on.
TAAFFE: Doesn`t he have to earn a living?
PARKS: No, I`m sorry. Let me...
TAAFFE: Well, why, Daryl? Daryl...
PARKS: Trayvon Martin lost his life. Don`t lose sight of that.
TAAFFE: OK. That`s a fact.
PARKS: Taaffe, it`s not a joke. It`s not a joke at all.
GRACE: Please finish, Mr. Parks.
TAAFFE: Hey? Hey, Daryl, it`s not a joke. I agree with you.
PARKS: Taaffe, let me talk.
TAAFFE: But he can`t earn a living?
PARKS: Well, let me say this here...
GRACE: Mr. Parks, please go ahead.
PARKS: Never forget, Trayvon Martin lies dead because of what happened, right? All this other stuff beyond what`s going on now is disrespectful, and I`m sure many people will see it as such.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a Hollywood superstar Oscar winner dead. Tonight, police zero in on four deadly dealers. Will they be charged with murder?
And then later, a woman drives drunk for miles through LA suburbs with a dying man stuck on her windshield.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t drive two miles with a body on your car. There`s just no way. I mean, who does that, really?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A Hollywood superstar and Oscar winner dead inside an exclusive Greenwich Village apartment. In the last hours, police zero in on four deadly dealers. Will they be charged with the star`s murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At a supermarket near his home, Hoffman withdrew $1,200 from this ATM in six different transactions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once O`Donnell discovered Hoffman was abusing drugs, she allegedly told him he had to stay at a second apartment, not with their children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overnight, police arrested three men and a woman connected to the drugs found in Philip Seymour Hoffman`s apartment. During the raid, police recovered 350 bags thought to be heroin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was walking off. He said, I just got out of rehab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was a cry for help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Steve Helling, staff writer with "People" magazine. Steve, police have zeroed in on deadly dealers. How were they tracked down?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, actually, it was a tipster who also seems to be, you know, a user of heroin, who said, you know, I think these are the people who sold him the drugs. And so, you know, police went and they raided and they found, you know, bags and bags of drugs and drug paraphernalia. They charged all four of them with either felony or misdemeanor, depending on who, possession.
GRACE: That`s video from TMZ of cops making four arrests in connection with Philip Seymour Hoffman`s death.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A law enforcement official confirming several people close to Hoffman have been questioned, including his former assistant and former partner, Mary Mimi O`Donnell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness told investigators he saw Hoffman at the supermarket ATM while talking to two men wearing messenger bags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they aiding Hoffman in the transaction? Were they people who were supplying drugs, delivering drugs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seemed in pretty good shape. And it`s -- I mean, there`s no way to explain it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, police on the trail, honing in on deadly dealers.
Straight out to Clark Goldband, on the story. Clark, what can you tell me? How were these guys tracked down? Who are they?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, that`s the question. Here`s what we do know. We know at least one source, according to reports, fingered some of these people or the location where these arrests went down. Now, we know they were somehow connected to the possible drugs found inside Hoffman`s home. Something to point out here, Nancy. As you see, that 57-year-old on the screen, Robert Vineberg, he is actually a successful musician who has toured and played with the likes of Wyclef Jean and Mick Jagger. So note of interest there. And Nancy, get this. When the drug bust goes down last night, here`s what authorities found. 350 bags believed to be heroin. As you know, that has a street value of thousands of dollars, and the investigation not stopping there. More exciting developments happening by the hour, including Hoffman`s personal diary has now been taken by law enforcement. They are reviewing that. Questions swirling. What might be in there, if anything, that could help them crack the case?
We talked about it yesterday, Nancy, that powerful painkiller fentanyl. Well, according to authorities, first tests that were conducted on this heroin are negative for fentanyl. So it`s not tainted by that powerful pain drug if reports are to be believed, and Nancy, law enforcement not stopping there. You have to believe that this net is certainly spreading wide.
GRACE: Well, you know, Clark, a lot of focus was placed on the fact that the ace of spades and the ace of hearts was stamped on many of the bags that the actor had in his apartment. And using that stamp, they`re hoping to backtrack to the dealer.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Peter Odom, defense lawyer, Atlanta. Also with me, death penalty qualified prosecutor and senior lawyer with the National DA`s Association, Eleanor Odom is with us. Eleanor, can the doper be charged with murder?
E. ODOM: Yes, they can, if they supplied the drugs to Hoffman and you can link it up, they can be charged with murder among many other charges, possession, possession with intent to distribute. Perhaps trafficking as well.
GRACE: Definitely murder, though.
E. ODOM: Definitely murder No. 1.
GRACE: Peter, please stop shaking your head back and forth, please.
P. ODOM: I can`t help it. What I`m hearing is ridiculous. There is no way these people will be prosecuted for murder unless they can show they had an intent to kill.
GRACE: The law also presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
P. ODOM: That has nothing to do with it.
GRACE: If I take a piece of fine china and I throw it down on this cement floor, the law presumes that I meant to break it. I give you 70 bags of heroin. The law will assume I meant to kill you, does it not?
P. ODOM: No, Nancy, and I don`t know where it came from. These people intended to sell him drugs. That`s all they intended to do. Unless they can show they knew the drugs would kill him, they cannot prosecute them for murder. Simply not going to happen.
GRACE: Dr. Bill Manion, would you assume 70 bags of heroin would kill, Doctor? That`s a simple yes or no.
MANION: Yes. That`s a tremendous amount of heroin. Even an addict who is used to the level of drugs that Mr. Hoffman was used to.
GRACE: I`m really interested in those four people that have already been arrested. Let`s see them again. With me now, Brad Lamm, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers, former addict. Also with me, former addict and now star, Danny Bonaduce. Talk show host, KZOK.
First to you, Brad Lamm. These people that we`re seeing on the screen, these people that have already been arrested, one is a musician. They don`t look like dope dealers. I have no reason to believe they`re out selling heroin, so what role are they playing in the star`s death?
LAMM: Nancy, if we walked out of the studio here at Time Warner Center, we could find drugs for sale every other block. Probably every block. The drug dealers are your friends, your family, your lawyers and your doctor. So it really cuts all across all thresholds, just like addiction does.
GRACE: So are you saying that people that are your friends can also be heroin dealers?
LAMM: I would say it has never been easier to buy heroin across the United States. Never been easier. It`s everywhere you want to look for it.
GRACE: To Danny Bonaduce, talk show host, former addict. Weigh in. I`d like to hear your thoughts on what`s going down.
BONADUCE: I`ve been listening to this. By the way, it`s a pleasure to be here, Nancy, thank you. I was listening to your lawyer saying they cannot without intent get arrested for murder. They`re going to go down for involuntary manslaughter for sure, and he should look back at the case of Kathy Smith. She had no intent once she injected John Belushi, but she served 15 months.
GRACE: You`re right, and another thing, with me Danny Bonaduce and Brad Lamm. Brad, to you, sometimes heroin, when injected, can be so thick, syrupy thick, that a lot of users actually have somebody inject it into their arms.
LAMM: I would say most heroin users, though, when they inject don`t do that, because they want to control the amount of drugs that goes into the body. It`s a real leap of faith to inject anything into your body, let alone let somebody else do it. It`s a slippery slope. It is one of the scariest things that any addict will do, take some drug that`s not tested, not quality controlled, and put into their body just to get a high. That is the cunning and baffling part of addiction, Nancy, and that`s why treatment is the answer, not jail.
GRACE: Caryn Stark. He had been clean for 20 years. What happened?
STARK: I don`t think it ever goes away, the urge, Nancy. You just have to learn how to control it. Something happens in your life and you get upset, and all of a sudden that urge is there and he just gave in to it. Something was troubling him.
GRACE: Back to you, Steve Helling, staff writer with "People" magazine. Steve, these four people that have just been arrested by police, what role do we think they played in Hoffman`s death?
HELLING: Well, you know, if they can link the drugs that he took to the drugs that were there, perhaps they sold him the drugs. Right now it`s interesting because they`ve only been charged with possession, they haven`t been charged with anything else, so obviously the police aren`t going to come out and tell us everything that they`re looking at, but they`re certainly looking at these four as having some link to the death. So we`ll see what they end up charging them with ultimately, and we might end up -- we`ll see if they end up going to trial for killing him.
GRACE: When we come back, a woman drives drunk for miles through L.A. suburbs with a dying man stuck on her windshield! P.S., she`s a substance abuse counselor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A woman drives drunk for miles through L.A. Suburbs with a dying man stuck on her windshield. She didn`t notice the dying man on the windshield? Was she that drunk? P.S., she`s a substance abuse counselor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t drive two miles with a body on your car. There`s just no way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 31-year-old Philip Mareno (ph) was struck and killed by a suspected drunk driver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure justice is being served.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The driver, Sherry Wilkins --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her statement to us is she panicked behind the wheel after striking the gentleman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was sick to my stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was doing the right thing, and he was walking, and he had his life taken from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. How can she drive for miles and miles through the L.A. Suburbs and not notice there`s a man dying -- and he did die -- on her windshield?
LARSON: Yes, not only on her windshield, punctured through the windshield, Nancy, for over two miles. This is literally a scene out of a horror movie.
GRACE: Good grief, look at this.
LARSON: Uh-huh. It may have something to do with the fact that she was twice the legal drinking limit when they finally tested her blood alcohol level, because they also found vodka, beer and a clamato in her car, because she was rushing home before the alcohol kicked in.
GRACE: Take a look at this. Matt Zarrell, how did the whole thing occur?
ZARRELL: The whole thing happened when Wilkins was actually leaving the substance abuse treatment center where she works. She then proceed to drive two and a half miles with the victim on her car, and when the motorist stopped her, Nancy, she claimed she was taking the victim to the hospital and that he jumped in front of her car.
GRACE: With me right now, special guest out of L.A., Kevin Danesh, the attorney for the victim`s family, Philip Mareno. Kevin, thank you for being with us. This is a picture of her in her regular life, Sherry Lynn Wilkins, a far cry from the woman behind the wheel that night, yet she is one and the same. Mr. Danesh, what is your reaction to her story about what happened that evening?
DANESH: Well, my reaction is the same as the family. Everyone was enraged. It`s obvious what happened. It`s obvious that she made poor decisions to drive while under the influence of alcohol and other substances, got behind the wheel, and in reckless disregard for human life, attempted to swerve erratically for miles on end to dislodge him from the vehicle. And everyone was enraged --
GRACE: How did she end up hitting him to start with? Where was he and where was she?
DANESH: Well, he was walking lawfully across an intersection, and she was driving down the street at a high rate of speed, so much so causing his arm to punch through the windshield, as everyone stated previously, and dislodge his clothing from him at certain points. And, you know, she obviously was not driving in the appropriate capacity.
GRACE: When you said dislodge his clothing, with me is the lawyer for the victim`s family, Kevin Danesh. Actually, wasn`t her driving along and the force of the blow when she ran over him, tore off his shoes and his pants?
DANESH: Yes. As she was going that whole path of destruction for two miles, witnesses observed her violently swerve back and forth, and that literally knocked his pants off and shoes off, to the point he was naked when she finally was tracked down by some good Samaritans and forced to stop the vehicle.
GRACE: So, Brad Lamm, if she was just leaving work as a substance abuse counselor and her alcohol limit was twice the legal limit, that means she had to be drinking at work.
LAMM: You know, Nancy, I got to tell you the story is just so disturbing to me, and it makes me think of 11 years ago when I was in rehab, one of the guys that helped me so much get better later died in -- it wasn`t this awful a story, but, you know, he used again and he got sick and he died. It`s just such an awful story, Nancy. But I guarantee if I go out and drink tonight, there will be horrible repercussions from it. My heart goes out to all the families affected by this tonight, Nancy.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia, Dr. Manion, he could have lived. When he was on that windshield, he was alive. His body was basically stuck in the broken windshield. Let`s see a picture of the windshield. Now, there is massive, massive blood loss, so I assume he`s dying from blood loss, Dr. Manion. But if she hadn`t driven around drunk with him on the windshield, he could have been saved, Dr. Manion.
MANION: Well, there is a chance. The EMS are tremendous, the ambulance crews are tremendous at starting IVs, maintaining blood pressure, rush him to the hospital, getting on scene quickly. And yes, if she had stopped and called 911, he could have had a chance. I haven`t seen the autopsy results, if he had a fractured neck up high, it wouldn`t have mattered. If he had a lacerated aorta, it may not have mattered. But if he hadn`t had these instantaneously fatal injuries, such as an upper cervical neck fracture or ruptured aorta, he would have had his chance to survive, yes.
GRACE: Take a look at that windshield. This guy is just walking across the street when boom, along comes Sherry Lynn Wilkins double the legal limit for alcohol, and she weaves through the neighborhoods of suburban L.A. with this guy dying on her windshield. She claims she didn`t notice he was there.
When we come back, TV star David Cassidy best known for his role in "The Partridge Family" -- come on, get happy -- DUI again?
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GRACE: TV star David Cassidy best known for his role in the Partridge Family, DUI again?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forever immortalized for his starring role in the Partridge Family, David Cassidy now in trouble with the law.
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GRACE: That was the Partridge Family from Youtube Columbia Pictures and Television. Out to Mike Walker, senior editor with the National Enquirer. I`ve ignored the stories about David Cassidy, but when you get to x number how many DUIs have there been and he doesn`t do jail time and then he does it again and again and again. What happened this time, Mike?
WALKER: Well, this time he was in Los Angeles, and he was there to protest -- he`s in a lawsuit with Sony Pictures saying -- or Sony Corp -- that he is still owed money from the Partridge Family. You know, one of those things, where`s my money. He is undergoing depositions. He finished that, and he was headed off onto the 405 highway, freeway, and he made an illegal right turn. Cops spotted him, stopped him. And he was really -- he blew -- what did he blow, in L.A., a 1.19.
GRACE: And the legal limit is 0.08. Wait a minute, he was in a deposition, a legal deposition?
WALKER: Yes.
GRACE: So he must have been snookered under oath?
WALKER: Well, his publicist said, well, he was drunk because he was under such strain. He`d been doing real good in rehab. He`s had a very troubled career here with alcohol, which I`ll tell you about in a minute. But anyway, she said he was under a terrible strain because the lawyers were hammering him in this deposition. That`s the excuse.
GRACE: Wait a minute. You can`t throw it back right in front of the lawyers. He had to be drunk going into the depo. I`m sure he didn`t throw back a vodka tonic in front of the other side`s lawyers?
WALKER: I doubt that. That would have been a fun deposition. So who knows? The point is David Cassidy, we did a story in which we quoted people who said he probably has just months to live, okay? This was a recent story. Now that may be an exaggeration, but the point is he is very drunk. Way back in, let`s see, I guess it was 2012 -- no, 2010. My old buddy Danny Bonaduce came out to help David. You know, he was with him on the Partridge Family. And I said at the time, I said to Danny, I said, boy, when you have to come out and help somebody for a booze addiction, you know the guy is in trouble. And he did --
GRACE: You know what? Speak of the devil and his imp shall soon appear, Mike Walker. Danny is with us right now. Danny, you were the star as well as Cassidy in the Partridge Family. This is a heck of a blow.
BONADUCE: Well, it is. And I`m not making my disappointment what I know to be facts, but I think you`re probably right. He`s drunk under oath. And this is an addiction, man. I have been drunk under oath at least three times. It`s shameful, but that`s what the disease does. It creeps up on you.
GRACE: I appreciate what you`re saying about it being a disease. I get it. I`ve dealt with many, many people with addictions and actually tried to help them, but when you get on the road drunk, that`s not just you and your addiction. You can kill other people. As a matter of fact, a half empty bottle of bourbon was found under one of the seats of his white Mercedes. We`ll be right back with senior editor from the National Enquirer, Mike Walker, and Danny Bonaduce. You are seeing video of the Partridge Family. That`s the Partridge Family album from Youtube and Columbia Pictures TV. Stay with us.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Cassidy now in trouble with the law. Cops say he was driving under the influence.
GRACE: That`s Partridge Family from Youtube and Columbia Pictures Television. David Cassidy DUI again, this time on a public road. Back out to Mike Walker, senior editor of National Enquirer. Mike, so where does it stand now? How many DUIs do we know of?
WALKER: He has three DUIs. The first was in Florida, then in Albany, New York, then the recent one in L.A. Here`s the interesting thing, Nancy, that you will appreciate as a lawyer. It turns out that because the Albany case has not been adjudicated yet, the judge hasn`t made a decision. In effect, the judge has gotten annoyed at the lawyers saying, come on, let`s get a plea deal here, prosecutor and lawyer, and get this case resolved. Now he`s realizing that because of the L.A. DUI bust, that could affect the gravity of the charge that`s going to be brought against him in Albany, because that still goes to adjudication. So in other words, if he gets the max for the L.A. case, let`s say, and he can serve a year in jail, up to a year, the judge in Albany might say, you know what? We were going to go easy on you, but now, you know, you`ve done this. So you know what? As far as I`m concerned this is a felony. I`m not pleading this down to a misdemeanor.
It`s an amazing thing. I didn`t realize you could do that. In other words, because that case is not decided yet, that could really go against him. He could be facing jail time in Albany. I mean, possibly.
GRACE: Got it. With me Mike Walker, National Enquirer. And Danny Bonaduce.
Let`s stop and remember, American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Jacob Ross, just 19, Gillette (ph), Wyoming. Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon. Loved the outdoors and carpentry. Parents Karen and Dennis. Sister Katie. Brother Nathan. Widow Brittany. Jacob Ross, American hero. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, until then, good night, friend.
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