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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Man Chokes, Beats Girlfriend in Store; Shocking Michael Dunn Jailhouse Phone Calls Released
Aired February 18, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: New outrage as teen killer Michael Dunn`s shocking and explosive jailhouse phone calls are just released. We will play them for you in just a second.
But first, breaking news on another front. Two jaw-dropping, just- released surveillance videos show horrific crimes in progress. Check out this stunning crystal-clear video of a suspect creeping through a home that cops say he has broken into, all while the family is sleeping right nearby. It`s straight out of a movie.
And look at this brutal attack inside a convenience store that has gone viral. Tonight, we ask will crime disappear as these cameras pop up everywhere?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
This attack started outside a convenience store in Bakersfield, California. The woman runs from her attacker, Aidan Cruise, who`s on a bike. He throws something at her. Oddly, the two then hug for several seconds. Then she kneels on the ground. But then she gets up and runs away.
This wild story doesn`t end there. The real drama happens when she retreats inside a convenience store seeking help. OK. So here she is, acting casual. But clearly scared, as she tries to hide in the back of the store. But he finds her and attacks her again.
Now, that`s when a group of men, mostly workers, emerge and courageously confront this suspect. They don`t know if he has a gun. But they act to subdue him anyway. Four courageous men battle this suspect, ultimately wrestling him to the ground and holding him there for cops.
Meanwhile, the cashier, she has pressed the panic button. Cops arrive in just over one minute. And that`s when they cuff the guy.
I want to hear what you have to say about this. Call me: 1-877-JVM- SAYS. We`ve got a fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel tonight.
But first out to Isidro Cortes. You were working inside the store. You heroically confronted this man. Pulled the woman away from this attacker, as the other employees wrestled him to the ground. Tell me about your decision-making process. Were you scared? Did you wonder if he had a gun? What was your gut reaction? What did you do, Isidro?
ISIDRO CORTES, WITNESS (via phone): Hi. No, just the first reaction was to break them apart, and try to get them away from each other. He got a little more violent, and then that`s when my co-workers gave me a hand, and they pushed him away.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the woman, she was clearly terrified. We see that on the video at one point. But apparently, she`s also saying, "Leave him alone," like a typical co-dependent victim of relationship abuse. She`s kind of defending him at the same time, Isidro?
CORTES: Yes, correct. She`s scared, crying, and I figured and I seen her in tears, asking my co-workers to leave him alone, let him go. She was yelling at them to let him go. She was -- I don`t know. I guess at the moment she was too confused to figure out what`s going on. And after a few minutes, she kind of cooled down, and she just stopped saying anything. Just stayed quiet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about this guy, this cowardly guy who`s beating up on a woman that you subdued? I understand, first of all, he only spent three days in jail. That`s my understanding. He got a fine of about $1,000, three years` probation, community service. Well, I think he could have gotten a lot more. But -- and we`ve got law enforcement on the phone. Cops say the woman not only begged employees to let him go, she pleaded with the cops, "Don`t charge him." All right?
I want to go to Ray Pruitt, public information officer for Kern County Sheriff`s Office. Again, this woman, who we see being beaten up by this guy on video, is pleading with the cops, "Don`t arrest him," sir?
RAY PRUITT, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, KERN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via phone): Yes, that`s not uncommon in these types of cases. Unfortunately, in domestic cases, a lot of times what we see is either the cases is a he said/she said type cases, or oftentimes the victim will refuse to cooperate or refuse to testify. Fortunately, in this case, we had video surveillance of the entire incident. So we had some very good evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you do. We see the entire thing, like it`s a movie. And again, we`ve been talking to one of the workers who comes out, one of the gentlemen right there, and who literally grabs -- you can see, they`re grabbing him.
So we`ve got Isidro on the phone. He`s one of the guys. They`re grabbing that man and pulling him away from the woman. Now in a minute we`re going to talk about the Michael Dunn case. You have the guy who killed Jordan Davis, the teenager in an argument over loud music.
What`s extraordinary about this video is these four workers take on this guy and save the woman. But Jon Lieberman, they don`t overreact. They don`t kick him in the face or do something wildly inappropriate, like shoot him to death. Not that they would have a gun to do that.
But they -- it`s a measured response. They don`t try to hurt him, necessarily. They hold him down a somebody hits the panic button. Isn`t that -- and we`re going to go out to our Lion`s Den -- a perfect example of how citizens can stand their ground, meet force with force, but it doesn`t have to be over the top -- Jon.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it is, Jane. And I`ll tell you this, too. Police acted perfectly, as well. They were there within two minutes.
So you have these citizens doing the right thing. You have police getting there within two minutes. And Jane, I`ll tell you, I sit on the board of the National Domestic Violence Registry, and I hate to tell you, we see cases like this every single day. Where the woman doesn`t want the perpetrator, the batterer arrested, no matter whether it`s caught on camera, caught on audio, caught on video. They stick up for their men until the very end. It`s typical battered women syndrome. And it`s sad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me -- let me contrast this with the Michael Dunn case. Because we`re going to be playing these extraordinary jailhouse conversations in just a second. They`re going to just absolutely knock you off your chair.
But the surveillance video is a commonality in all these cases. Now, in a bizarre twist, in the Michael Dunn case, there were six camera angles conducting surveillance inside the store, which is why we heard him fire numerous times, but we only heard it from inside the store.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNFIRE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh, somebody`s shooting. Somebody`s shooting out of their car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But oddly enough, there were no cameras whatsoever outside the store, which is where the shooting occurred, where teenager Jordan Davis is shot dead by Michael Dunn.
So I want to go to Eric Guster, criminal defense attorney. Do you think, in light of all the videos we`re looking at, how some cameras really record a crime, like that -- should it be law that cameras be put in public parking lots where people gather, where these crimes routinely occur? Had there been surveillance video on the outside, we might not have had a mistrial. We would have seen what happened.
ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s very wise for a company to do that anyway for insurance purposes. Because people always slip and fall and have different accidents. And definitely with crime, it will help them, No. 1, with insurance premiums, and secondly, make sure it reduces the amount of crime.
Because when a perpetrator sees their video cameras, they`re much less likely to go in and commit any type of offense, because they know they`re being recorded or actually watched by a live person who`s behind the actual camera.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now we`re talking about shocking videos that are catching crimes in progress. If you think the beating video is a shocker, check out the brand-new, just-released, crystal-clear video camera from inside a home, showing a man breaking in. It`s straight out of a horror movie.
Here is the suspect creeping through somebody`s house, going past their bedrooms as the family is sound asleep. The homeowner said this guy got away with the family`s car, but they hope this video will help cops catch this suspect. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He broke into the side door of the house. And came right through this hallway, went all the way through the house looking around for things. About five minutes going up and down the house. Anybody could wake up, as well. You have a night routine that you would walk around in the house. You don`t know if somebody bumps into him going for a glass of water or whatever, it could have been dangerous. With all the footage that we got, it will be easy to catch him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It will be easy to catch him. Out to the Lion`s Den. Kimberly Priest Johnson, criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, could this be the death of crime? These cameras are getting sharper and sharper. They`re all over the place. More and more people are putting them inside their homes. They`re in surveillance -- they`re in convenience stores.
Is it only a matter of time until we -- we have no more crime because people will realize "There`s a camera on me everywhere"?
KIMBERLY PRIEST JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if only it were that easy, right? You`re right, that more and more people are getting these cameras, but they -- it doesn`t seem to be lessening the crime that we`re seeing. But yes, I think surely it can help us find and more closely identify these perpetrators. So it is a good thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Simone Bienne, behavior expert. If people realize that they are being watched, that there is no privacy anymore -- you`re having an argument with your girlfriend, you start to smack her around, start to beat her, chances are there`s a camera recording this -- isn`t that going to have an impact culturally on people committing crime?
SIMONE BIENNE, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, I don`t know whether it will, Jane. Because I think when you are in that moment, I don`t imagine you are thinking about there`s going to be a surveillance camera on me. I mean, certainly, what we`ve seen here is guy who clearly isn`t thinking.
I`m going to turn it on its head and say, "Do you know what? In America, we need heroes more than ever." So actually, with surveillance cameras, we`re seeing people like Isidro, who you were just speaking to. And I think that is what is worth celebrating.
Suddenly, instead of celebrities, we are celebrating the real-life heroes, so hopefully, the cameras are going to catch more heroes helping others. And I think that goodness will spread through society without a doubt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, not just video. Up next we`re talking audio. Michael Dunn, OK? He`s now saying he`s the victim. It`s shocking what comes out from his mouth on newly-released jailhouse tapes. That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL DUNN, FOUND GUILTY OF ATTEMPTED MURDER (via phone): I was the one who was victimized. I mean, I don`t know how else to put it. Like they attacked me. I`m the victim.
RHONDA ROUER, GIRLFRIEND: Right.
DUNN: I`m the victor, but I was the victim, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Jordan Davis!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Jordan Davis!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Jordan Davis!
DUNN: I said, "You`re not going to kill me, you son of a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)," and I shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
CHARLIE HENDRIX, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF MICHAEL DUNN: I knew some day he was going to kill somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jailhouse phone calls between Michael Dunn and his fiancee.
DUNN (via phone): I`m the victim here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pointed a semiautomatic pistol at four unarmed kids.
DUNN: They attacked me. I`m the victim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. New outrage over shocking just-released jailhouse calls Michael Dunn made just days after he gunned down African-American teen Jordan Davis. It`s the killing of the unarmed teen outrage. You will not believe what you`re about to hear.
The middle-aged software developer was just convicted of attempted second-degree murder from shooting ten rounds at an SUV full of teenagers driving away from his bullets. But the jury could not decide if Dunn murdered 17-year-old Jordan Davis or killed him in self-defense in an argument over loud music.
In one of the newly-released jailhouse calls, Dunn tells his girlfriend, Rhonda, that he was initially sharing a cell with three African-American men, but later was put in a cell all by himself. Listen carefully. What Dunn says is shocking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUNN (via phone): I guess it would be better than being in a room with them animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Them animals." And all along the defense has insisted this case had nothing to do with race? Even the prosecution did not make race an issue, knowing obviously that this is something that he said, along with the racist jailhouse letters.
In a moment, you`re going to hear another call where Dunn claims he`s the real victim. Imagine how Jordan Davis` parents feel hearing that. Tonight, why did the prosecutors` office release these tapes now? What impact could they have on the trial? What impact could they have on the retrial for Michael Dunn on first-degree murder?
Straight out to my fantastic "Lion`s Den" debate panel. Areva Martin, attorney, it`s frustrating to me. I want to know, is it frustrating to you that the jury never heard a word about Dunn being this prejudiced?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: It`s very frustrating, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
MARTIN: It`s very frustrating, because we knew all along that this case was about race. We knew that Michael Dunn said these thugs, and these gangsters. And he was talking about African-Americans. When he saw those young men, what he saw were thugs and gangsters. He didn`t see innocent teenagers who were unarmed.
And so these tapes just validate and confirm what we already knew. Is that there`s a problem in this country, and we used to think it was about police and the way police treated African-American males. I think this case, and clearly the Trayvon Martin case, show that it`s not just police. It`s civilians, as well. And African-American males are treated unfairly, before they get to the criminal justice system, and once they`re in the criminal justice system. And these tapes are just appalling.
Steve Greenberg, criminal defense attorney, surely you`d find that comment by Michael Dunn outrageous?
STEVE GREENBERG, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I find the comments disturbing. But it comes back to what`s the trial about.
Remember, Jane, before he fired shots, had didn`t yell anything racial. He didn`t say anything racial beforehand. After the fact maybe he did. You don`t want the trial to become a mini trial on is this guy a racist? And then have people coming in, the prosecution will put in the record, or calls and saying, "Oh, he`s racist," and then he`ll call 20 witnesses that will say he was nice to this African-American guy and this. And it just becomes a mess.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, did he not say...
MARTIN: Jane -- Jane, can I just say...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure, go ahead.
MARTIN: That comment, to say he didn`t say anything racial is just absolutely disingenuous. The comment about the music being thug music in and of itself is a racial comment. It`s code for African-Americans. It`s code for the "N" word. And we see it played over and over again. We can`t keep putting...
GREENBERG: I`ve never heard anyone refer to African-Americans as thugs.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was a whole national debate after a football star said something that seemed a little riled up. And there were thousands of comments using the word "thug." And this is documented online. So many people said the word "thug" was the new "N" word. So yes, there is a correlation culturally between "thug" and prejudice.
GUSTER: And it is -- it is a code word.
BIENNE: It is a question about whether that music he`s referring to, teenage music, though. And there`s still that question. We have to be very careful that just because he has been shown to be a racist does not mean that this particular case was about race.
GUSTER: This case was about race, whether it was...
(CROSSTALK)
LEIBERMAN: I think we all agree -- look...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Let Eric speak for a second. Eric, go ahead.
GUSTER: This case is about race, whether we want to discuss it or not. This was about a white man who saw these black teens in this car, and he was instantly afraid. Whether they had a weapon or not, he was instantly afraid. They could have been in a business suit. I`ve been on an elevator and have people grab their purse from me. And I`m looking at them like, I can buy anything that you have right now. So it`s about race, even on top of that.
LEIBERMAN: But Jane, here`s the thing. I think we can all agree that Michael Dunn, as he just said, that Michael Dunn was fearful of black people. We can all agree on that.
But Jane, I`m not sure why they released these tapes today. And I`ll tell you why, because I feel like it just stokes the flames more. And it almost undermines the jury. It makes people angry at the jury when, in fact, the jury didn`t hear any of this. So we really shouldn`t be funneling this anger and outrage at the jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got another example. Let me get to the next example. Shooter Michael Dunn seems to have convinced himself that the friends of the victims were -- and the victim were a band of dangerous thugs. Listen to what he told his girlfriend from jail. Then we`ll debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUNN (via phone): She found some YouTube videos of these guys, and they`re all gangsta rappers. You know, because when the police said these guys don`t have a record, I was like, you know, I wonder if they`re just flying under the radar.
ROUER: Right.
DUNN: Because they were bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because they were bad. Now, that seems clear: Dunn had a bias about these kids the minute he pulled into that gas station.
We do know the oldest one, Tommie Stornes, the driver, was on probation for burglary at the time of the shooting. But the victim, Jordan Davis, and his two other friends did not have any records of any sort.
Go ahead, Areva Martin.
MARTIN: And there`s no evidence that anyone in that vehicle was a gangster rapper. And we can`t keep ignoring, Jane, all of these epithets that are being used to describe African-American males. Thugs and gangsters. We`re talking about negative connotations for African-American teens. And to say that -- I think it`s just disingenuous, as well. We need to talk about the race issues. Otherwise, we`re going to have dead black teen after dead black teen.
LEIBERMAN: We need to talk about it. But this came down to the jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, one at a time. One at a time. Go ahead, Kimberly.
PRIEST JOHNSON: We need to have an honest debate, though. And the discussion has got to acknowledge that these teenagers were shouting curse words. And act -- they weren`t just sitting in a car being harmless.
GREENBERG: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One teenager. One teenager was shouting.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One teenager who was shouting. One teen, not the whole car.
MARTIN: And that makes you a thug, Jane? When did cursing make you a thug?
GREENBERG: Why? Why did they start up? They picked a fight.
PRIEST JOHNSON: And then he told this other man that he was going to kill him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, that`s what Michael Dunn said.
PRIEST JOHNSON: Come on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nobody heard that but Michael Dunn.
We`re going to take a short break. On the other side, more of Michael Dunn`s stunning comments, on the phone from inside jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murder charge, no verdict.
ANGELA COREY, FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: We intend to retry him, retry Michael Dunn on first-degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of attempted second-degree murder.
DUNN: I became even more fearful at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of attempted second-degree murder.
DUNN: I thought I was going to be killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of attempted second-degree murder.
CORY STROLLA, MICHAEL DUNN`S ATTORNEY: There was no winners. Everybody lost something in this.
RON DAVIS, FATHER OF JORDAN DAVIS: He must be remorseful for the killing of my son.
LUCIA MCBATH, MOTHER OF JORDAN DAVIS: And we will continue to await for justice for Jordan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUNN (via phone): I was thinking about that today, I`m thinking I`m the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) victim here. I was the one who was victimized. I mean, I don`t know -- how else to put it. Like they attacked me. I`m the victim.
ROUER: Right.
DUNN: I`m the victor, but I was the victim, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting choice of words: "They attacked me." Is he referring to the victim dropping "F" bombs on him? Because the prosecution made a very convincing case that not only did nobody lay a hand on Michael Dunn, the victim never got out of the car.
And Steve Greenberg, one of the reasons that I believe that that is so true, is that the blood spatter, had he been shot outside the car, there would have been blood spatter outside the car, something that did not exist. Otherwise it would have come up in trial.
GREENBERG: Jane, I didn`t watch every minute of this trial. But don`t think for a minute that those jurors didn`t know that there were racial overtones, and don`t think for a minute that they didn`t share some of the same biases, and that`s why they acquitted him of the first-degree murder.
GUSTER: Acquitted him?
LEIBERMAN: They didn`t acquit him.
GUSTER: They didn`t acquit him.
GREENBERG: Well, they hung. They hung.
LEIBERMAN: They hung.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you`ve got a Lion`s Den panel with that one, Steve. Eric Guster, take it away.
GUSTER: The same guy who`s never heard the word "thug" be used as a racial -- a racial word. So I just -- I`m not going to pay any attention.
However, there is simply racism everywhere. And that is what we`re dealing with in this case and the Trayvon Martin case. Those things enter the jury room and it was part of the deliberations. And it was obvious.
I`m very interested to see what the jury says, what was the thing that hung them up. We don`t know if someone gave the self-defense argument, which I heard every single word of the trial last week. But I don`t think that anyone could have bought that with good sense.
(CROSSTALK)
GREENBERG: The way the law is written...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on one second.
Kimberly, I want to go to you, because I don`t think you could blame the jury for not considering something that was never presented in front of them. They were never told a word about racial prejudice, or race, or anything, even though the prosecution had this comment, even though they had the racist letters, even though a former neighbor says that he was saying that, you know, minorities are taking over the country, that whites are under attack. The jury never heard any of this.
PRIEST JOHNSON: Right. Several points. First, again, being a racist does not make a crime that a racist commits a hate crime. And so the prosecution had all of this evidence before, and they made a strategic decision not to introduce it. So that`s the first point.
The second point is, this tape that you just played is consistent with Michael Dunn`s testimony, his letters, with everything that he has said all along, which is, "I was fine. They were annoying me. I was" -- you know, doing whatever he was doing. "But then this man -- this kid said, `I`m going to kill you,` and at that moment I feared for my life."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But here`s the thing. Nobody heard that.
MARTIN: Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Areva.
MARTIN: First of all -- first of all, nobody`s talking about a hate crime. The fact that the man killed this young man because he`s African- American, because they were playing, quote unquote, thug music doesn`t have anything to do with a hate crime. We`re talking about the real issues of race and how race plays itself out in the case of Michael Dunn, in the case of George Zimmerman.
Two men that saw African-American teens, and they were instantly afraid because of their stereotype, because of their entrenched negative stereotypes, and beliefs about African-American males being dangerous. These young men were unarmed...
GREENBERG: That`s not a courtroom issue.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, one at a time, please. One at a time.
MARTIN: These race issues -- these race issues are real.
I want to go to Robert -- I want to go to Robert in Pennsylvania. He`s been waiting to say something. Robert, what do you have to say tonight?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I have a comment and a question. My comment is, you know, I think this is sort of racist, what`s going on. My question is, even if the young kid was playing the music and cussing at him, Mr. Dunn had no right -- no right to shoot him. Why couldn`t he just go back to the store if he didn`t like it?
LEIBERMAN: Jane, that`s a great point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the whole point we made with the previous victim -- or the previous videos where people subdued somebody who was physically beating up on a woman. They didn`t take a bottle, they didn`t go, boom, boom, boom, and over exert. They met force with force. Just barely, in a measured response. That`s, I think, the point, Jon Lieberman.
LEIBERMAN: Well, it is. And that`s why you have to look at the jury instructions and the way that the self-defense law is written in Florida. It asks juries to put themselves in the mind of the defendant to figure out the reasonableness of their fear.
And think about that for a second. You have 12 people in a room, 12 different people who probably think that the reasonableness of fear is completely different based on their own biases, too. So that`s really where part of the problem lies, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
MARTIN: I want to say that victim -- we`re also hearing George Zimmerman say that he also is a victim. So we`re hearing these individuals that have killed unarmed teens claiming to be the victims themselves. And it`s just preposterous.
LEIBERMAN: It is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s Orwellian -- this is Orwellian thinking, where the Department of War is called the Department of Peace and everything is the opposite of what it is.
Of course, if you`re going to paint yourself as a victim, if you can, the question is, are you a victim? And so I think this conversation is going to resonate. And it`s an important healthy conversation that we have.
We`re just getting started. Every night we`re going to cover something related to this. Tomorrow, we`re going to talk about what might happen with Michael Dunn behind bars. When he gets sent away -- will he need to stay in witness protection?
And take a look at this woman. She`s 19. She says she`s been killing on a spree -- a Satanic killing spree since she was 13. She claims to be one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history. I kid you not.
Stay right there -- her story on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Barbour and her newlywed husband are currently charged with luring a man to a meeting using Craigslist then stabbing and strangling him just for the thrill of it in Sunbury, Pennsylvania. She now claims to be a serial killer, with so many victims, she can`t remember them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miranda Barbour paints herself as a cold serial killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she has, you know, done this before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had no idea we were dealing with a murderer or alleged murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "When I hit 22, I stopped counting."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saying that they were punishing bad people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she`s lying, that she killed 22 people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point we`re taking her claims seriously.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The use of Craigslist companion`s ad to lure Troy LaFerrera to his death just because they wanted to kill someone together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most chilling thing she said to me was if she ever gets out she would do it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re going to talk to that gentleman in just a second. Tonight, horror, coast to coast, as a pretty young woman tells a reporter "Not only did I murder somebody, stabbing him 20 times, but I killed at least 22 other people, possibly upwards of 100 people. So many, I stopped counting."
This teenager you`re looking at, Miranda Barbour, is she one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history? Cops say they`re taking her serial killer claims seriously. They`re trying to find out if she did murder dozens or more people in four states across the United States as part of an obsession with Satanism.
Cops say they`re sure she did viciously murder 42-year-old Troy LaFerrera in Pennsylvania back in November. Cops say Miranda lured this victim through a Craigslist ad and then agreed to have sex for $100. But when he met up with her, Miranda and her husband of three weeks killed him.
Here`s Miranda`s seemingly proud groom talking to reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elytte, Miranda said she killed 22 people. Do you believe her?
ELYTTE BARBOUR, HUSBAND OF MIRANDA BARBOUR: I plead the fifth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she`s being honest?
BARBOUR: Who`s to say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she`s lying that she killed 22 people?
BARBOUR: I didn`t say that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she`s telling the truth?
BARBOUR: Don`t put words in my mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why is this guy smiling? Accused of killing somebody -- to me, that says evil. You`re charged with a murder and you`re grinning? Like you`re on the red carpet?
Straight out to our very special guest, the "Daily Item" reporter who interviewed Miranda from prison, Francis Scarcella. Hey, kudos on your scoop. What an exclusive you got. Tell us the sense you got from this young woman. Did you get the sense that she was delusional, evil, a sociopath? What did your gut tell you about her?
FRANCIS SCARCELLA, "THE DAILY ITEM": She was very calm and she was very cool and she was very collected when she spoke. I mean she spoke about things so matter of fact.
When I walked inside, she said, "I have a lot of things I want to tell you." And I said, "Well, why me? Why me of all people in this?" And she said that, you know, since this happened, she said her and her husband had purchased newspapers day after day and they followed every story that I wrote on it. And she was very, like I said, she was just very -- so soft- spoken. I would have never believed what was going to come out of her mouth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean she looks like she could be on a high school cheerleading team. It`s astounding. But I don`t think that evil comes in any one package. I saw that with Jodi Arias case.
SCARCELLA: No, what she said -- what she said was just mind-boggling. It was the fact when I asked her and she said "I did this before." I said, "Miranda, how many times?" And she said, "Less than a hundred."
And I said, "Miranda, nobody in the world will believe what you`re saying right now." And she said, "I don`t care." She said "I`m saying this for me, and I want to get it off my chest." I said, "Well, you need to give me a number." She said, "I stopped counting at 22."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Miranda`s only officially charged with one murder right now. But cops say, hey, she stabbed somebody more than 20 times. So that shows you that she`s capable of extreme violence. They say she and her husband conspired on a thrill kill to celebrate the three-week anniversary of their wedding. That is pretty darn evil, too. At first, the husband did claim they were both innocent, though. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBOUR: I do not believe that this was malicious whatsoever. I believe that she was attacked, and that under those circumstances she took the necessary measures to defend herself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: These guys are incredible actors, it would seem. This is the victim, who was stabbed and strangled. Got to go back to Francis Scarcella now. She says, "I am willing to pinpoint the locations of the bodies." So what are the cops doing? If she`s saying, "I can pinpoint up to at least 20, maybe up to a hundred bodies". How long would it take to say, "Ok, give me a body and go and check it and see if there`s actually a body in that grave?"
SCARCELLA: Actually before we came here today, I spoke with Sunbury police said they have been in contact with the FBI and the FBI is actively helping them in their investigation. They`re taking the claims very seriously.
I mean the most chilling part of the entire thing is you know, you can take all the numbers and throw the numbers out, but she said if I get out of prison, I would do this again.
I think Sunbury police who have done a great job in this and now working with federal law enforcement, they`re taking it very seriously.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, originally Miranda told cops she killed Troy after he attacked her -- as you heard the husband say. Now she claim she`s been in a Satanic cult for years -- at least six years. Is this teenager just feeding off popular culture? We all know a couple of years ago, everything was vampires. Now, it`s ritualistic killing everywhere like HBO`s show "True Detectives".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a world we`re nothing is solved. There are broader ideas at work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see something like this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joining me now, Magus Peter Gilmore, I don`t know a lot about the Church of Satan but he`s the head of the Church of Satan. Thank you for joining us, Peter and I understand you`re shrouding your face. But we`ve got you on Skype but we`re not showing your face.
Miranda tells the "Daily Item" she left Alaska as a high-ranking official in the Satanic world. She was impregnated by the number two leader -- a man named Forrest (ph) who was then murdered. Does any of this ring a bell? Does it ring true to you at all, Peter? Hey, Peter, are you there? Oh, Peter -- head of the Church of Satan.
All right.
Well, let`s go to some of the other guests that we have here. Simone Bienne, I heard the head of the Church of Satan say to somebody else that they`re not really about violence; that they may be about a lot of other things and atheism but they`re really not about killing at all. So Simone, does this ring true or do you think this is a lot of hooey?
SIMONE BIENNE, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: I think it`s a lot of hooey. And -- I mean who joins such a cult? What we do know is with Satanism, if you`re looking at the behavior aspect, somebody has to be masochistic. And also what they are saying is, that they don`t have to have any kind of moral responsibility, any kind of moral compass, and they`re protected by a formidable power.
So to me, actually, the fact of what we do know about this girl, Jane, with her history of molestation, it`s almost like she`s projecting the evil in herself, and giving herself that bubble of surrounding herself by other evil people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side -- I agree with you, but I`m going to add to that. I`m going to give you my theory of what`s really going on here. What all of this is actually really about?
Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Miranda`s officially charged with one count of murder. Do you believe she`s a serial killer?
VINNIE PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I do. People don`t usually confess to doing something like that unless they did it. And she`s part of a Satanic cult so she`s not wrapped too tight. Neither is her husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 22 people in the last six years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She now claims to be a serial killer, with so many victims, she can`t remember them all. "When I hit 22, I stopped counting."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s killed people in Alaska, Texas, North Carolina, and California as part of a Satanic cult.
SCARCELLA: She said that if she got out, she would do it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Who is Miranda Barbour? She claims she was sexually molested by a relative when she was just four years old. Her mom admits it`s true, telling the "Daily Item" her sister`s husband was sentenced to 14 years in prison. Nine years later, Miranda said she joined a Satanic cult and at 13 allegedly committed her first murder by reluctantly helping the leader of a cult pull the trigger.
But then she says she was off to the races when it came to killing. She claims to have been pregnant twice, the first time having an abortion performed by Satanic cult members, and then reportedly running away from the cult during her second pregnancy.
Here`s my theory. I`ll go around the horn here, start with Kimberly Priest-Johnson -- you`ve prosecuted and defended so many cases. She suffered horrible sexual abuse as a girl. She never felt she got justice because she was too young when the guy went away, she doesn`t know about being locked up. She thinks her abuser basically got away with it.
She`s putting herself in the news so people will start talking about her and what happened to her, what was done to her and then they`re going to focus on this pedophile. She tried to shine a light on what was done to her and getting attention for being a victim. What do you think, Kimberly?
KIMBERLY PRIEST-JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I absolutely agree with you. That what this girl is doing, and how she`s behaving is entirely conceivable, given the sexual molestation from a family member at a young age.
Now, whether she`s delusional about having killed 22-plus people or not, I don`t know. My guess is, probably she didn`t do such a great job of disposing the victim`s body that she`s actually charged with. And so the fact that she would get away with 22-plus murders is probably a little bit inconceivable to me. But I do think her behavior, she feels very justified in her behavior.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I think we do have Peter Gilmore of the Church of Satan. Peter, quickly, is the Church of Satan about violence? We only have two seconds.
PETER GILMORE, CHURCH OF SATAN: No, the Church of Satan -- its philosophy promotes the idea of a social contract -- law and order being the important, paramount way of bringing society together. We don`t condone murder or in any way attacking people unless it`s for self-defense. That`s not an attack, it`s a responsive defense. Satanism is not a philosophy of violence. It doesn`t promote anything that this woman is claiming to have done.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t know anything about her being a high ranking official in the Satan church? I remember you saying that earlier today. You think she`s --
GILMORE: She`s not a member of the Church of Satan. I don`t even think that this cult exists. During the 80s there was a Satanic panic and the FBI investigated all of these claims for this kind of thing. They found that the cult was nonsense. It just seems like somebody trying to pretend that we`re back in the 80s, and this fantasy being given ground and credence again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, thank you for jumping in there, Peter. We`re going to stay on top of this one.
Wow, could it be that she`s sort of true -- maybe she killed a few other people? Maybe not it`s not 22, maybe just five?
On the other side, a story I know all of you are going to care about. It`s another outrage -- totally different subject matter. Stick around and you`ll see what it is.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day, send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.
Pineapple -- you are so sweet, luscious and delicious. I love you. And Kidrock -- He says, "I`m a rock star. I play in the snow." Gunther says "I`m very studious, I`m very academic and intellectual, but I`m a lot of fun to be around. I love to party, too, yes, I do." And Squeakers said, "I`m just a squeaker. Aren`t you?"
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight we`re fighting to save the greyhounds that critics say are facing shocking horrors in the racing industry. An explosive report published in the "Miami Herald" claims 74 greyhounds have died on race track properties in Florida since just May of last year -- that averages out to one gentle innocent dog dying every three days in Florida where there are a dozen race tracks. And the charges don`t stop there.
Critics claim racing greyhounds are confined to small cages for long hours, cages so small they have little room to move. Critics claim they`re forced to race in extreme weather conditions. In a small victory a new Florida law is exposing some of these horrors for the first time. Owners are being required to file a death report whenever a greyhound dies at a racetrack. Critics say that`s the only reason these shocking new death poll statistics have come out.
Tomorrow right here on this show, I will talk to grey2kusa.org. It`s an activist group trying to save these gentle, innocent greyhounds. They`ve got a surprise planned for us.
Straight out to animal advocate, Jane Garrison, who has a greyhound I understand with her right now. Jane, you are a prime animal lover. This reaction please to the report claiming one greyhound dies every three days in Florida`s greyhound racing industry.
JANE GARRISON, ANIMAL ACTIVIST: Jane, you can see from this gorgeous niece of mine -- these dogs are so sweet and so gentle and so kind. And those are the deaths that are actually reported. It makes me wonder how many of those deaths go without being even reported. And to say that they die is actually putting it very lightly. These dogs are killed.
If you read what has happened to these dogs, one of them was so overheated after racing, and then they put him in a crate and he died alone from overheating inside his crate. One actually died of head trauma. One died because they forced this dog to race in the middle of the night, and he couldn`t see where he was going and he banged into a fence and killed himself. These are horrific deaths of young, healthy dogs. The whole racing industry has to stop. These --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out to the Greyhound Racing Association for comment about these allegations. That group referred us to someone they say is an important member of the greyhound racing community. In an e-mail to the show that person said the report is quote, "somewhat misleading and claims not as many dogs die due to racing related causes as the report suggests. Personally, I think even one dog, one greyhound dying is too many. What say you, Jane Garrison?
GARRISON: Exactly, one is too many, and if that were case, why is the industry fighting the reporting of injuries? They don`t even want to report the injuries. If everything is ok, what do they have to hide?
These dogs live a miserable life. There is over-breeding, there are thousands and thousands of dogs every year that are discarded. They live their entire life 20 hours a day in a tiny crate that is so small they can barely stand up, turn around, lie down. They`re packed in these trucks four and five crates high, forced to be transported in the middle of the summer in Florida, dying of the overheat, to go to these tracks to race.
It`s a horrible outdated industry, it`s surrounded by cruelty and it has to stop. If people want to waste their money on betting, go to the poker tables, go to the slot machines, but let`s leave these sweet innocent dogs out of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the difference is if somebody wants to be involved in sports and you want to go to a sports book at a casino and bet on sports, you have a choice to be involved in that sport or not. These animals have no choice. They didn`t say, "Sign me up for greyhound racing."
GARRISON: Exactly. And Jane, this dog here is one of the very, very few lucky ones who actually was retired from racing and lives in a loving home. But most of them are either killed --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. This one was retired from racing that you`re holding?
GARRISON: Yes. Her name is Shanny. She`s my niece`s. She lives an amazing life now, but that is not the life that most of them live after they`re done. They get sent to tracks in Mexico and other countries where the conditions are even worse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at those eyes -- look at the eyes of that. Look at her ears. We love you, Jane, and your beautiful little rescue. Stay right there, speaking of rescues.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Be sure to check out Episode 2 of my brand new online reality show called "Weekends with the Rescues". You can find it on my Facebook page facebook.com/janevelezmitchell. Or just Google "Jane Velez- Mitchell". Here`s a take.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time to go outside, weekends with the rescues.
Princess. Princess Foxy reviewing her troops. What do you think, guys, should we go to the park?
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Such fun. Check it out.
Nancy Grace is next.
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