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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Protests in Arizona Over SP1062 Bill; Ppolitical Deal in Ukraine; School Run by Newark Archdiocese Shut Down; Aunt Gives CPR to 5-Month-Old on Miami Highway; Venezuela's President Calls for Talks with Obama; Ole Miss Civil Rights Statue Vandalized; Veteran Newsman Garrick Utley Dead At 74
Aired February 21, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Why is Newark's archbishop making a pricey addition to his vacation home? We are Keeping Them Honest.
And later, how this woman turned a nightmare into the best story in a long time. Stuck in traffic her baby stopped breathing. She saved his life along with other good Samaritans who pitched in to help. She joins us tonight.
But we begin tonight with the breaking news out of Arizona where once scan a piece of state legislation is making national headlines and bringing protesters out in force. Chanting "veto" and stop the hate, people tonight placing opposition to a bill that could allow business owners to deny service to gay or lesbian customers or many other kinds of customers if serving this customer goes against their religious beliefs.
It is called SP1062 is being pushed by the Central for Arizona policy, a conservative organization opposed to same-sex marriage. The group says this is about protecting religious liberty and nothing else. The protesters who are looking live there at them and other critics say it puts the legal seal of approval on religiously justified discrimination against groups like gays and lesbians and potentially many others.
SP1062 passed the legislature yesterday. And not only are guys and lesbians activists are urging Governor Jan Brewer to veto it, so are members of the business lobby in Arizona. Greater Phoenix economic council today warning of profound negative effects from the bill. Governor Brewer has not made up her mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GO. JAN BREWER (D), ARIZONA: It's a very controversial piece of legislation. We know that. We know that it's failed in a lot of states across the country. I have not been in town currently. I've been reading about it on the internet. And I will make my decision sometime probably by next Friday because I'll be -- if I do decide to sign it. But it's very controversial. So I've got to get my hands around it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Well, that's the backdrop. Our Miguel Marquez is on the ground in Phoenix. He joins us now. Miguel, so what is the latest there, I mean, clearly, during the midst of this demonstration?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is demonstration's been going on for a couple of hours now. Several hundred people, Anderson, out in front of the capital building here. They have been chanting veto this bill, stop the hate, and get rid of their legislature essentially all afternoon.
The concern for people here, the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community of Arizona is because there is no nondiscrimination protection for them state-wide. They feel that they would be made a special class by this particular piece of legislation and it would allow businesses to discriminate against them on a wide variety of ways. Everything from a restaurant to a hospital to a clerk to whatever sort of service one can imagine.
Proponents of the bill say that is just not true, that this bill basically protects people who believe deeply in their religion and that it would not be able to do that because the person bringing that issue would have to prove a series of tests basically before they would be able to do that. So they just say it's not true. The truth probably lies somewhere in between, but clearly the passion is out on this -- Anderson.
COOPER: And when is Jan Brewer expected to rule on this?
MIGUEL: It is expected to be transmitted to her office -- you can hear them shouting veto right now and chanting -- is expected to be transmitted to her office on Monday afternoon, next Monday. That would give her then five days. So Tuesday through Saturday. Saturday midnight she would have until. She told CNN earlier that she would sign it by Friday. We do know the business community, though, across Arizona, the super bowl is coming up here next year, there are already concerns being expressed by businesses that they say that if this bill passes they will not relocate to Arizona.
The business community wants to meet with Jan Brewer to emphasize that they don't want the black eye that this bill would give the state. Very much a perception problem for them. But they also don't want the legal issues that would come along with it and the great expenditures the state would have to do in defending it -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Miguel Marquez, appreciate it.
This is not just in Arizona, by the way. A number of other states considered similar legislation, recently stalled in Kansas, died in South Dakota and Tennessee.
Joining us now is Arizona state representative John Kavanagh who voted for the bill and New York university law professor Kenji Yoshino.
Appreciate both of you being with us.
Congressman, I want to start with you. If I own a bank in Arizona and I'm catholic and under this law, can't I decide not to give a loan to a gay person or say an unwed mother, someone who's been divorced, as long as my faith is deeply felt? And I argue that loaning money to one of these people is a substantial burden on my beliefs, that I don't want to get into business, it's not trivial or technical or minor burden, it is a real burden to get into business with an unwed mother if I'm a catholic loan officer? Wouldn't that be legal under this bill?
REP. JOHN KAVANAGH, ARIZONA STATE HOUSE: Absolutely not.
KAVANAGH: Under this bill -- well, this bill is not a new law. This bill is a law that was passed in the 1990s. It mirrors a federal law called the religious freedom restoration act. And all this law does, it says that before the government can put a burden on religion, a substantial burden on religion, they have to prove a compelling interest in doing so. And they have to do it in the least restrictive way. The law has been in effect since the 1990s. What we did the other day was put several tweaks to it.
COOPER: Right. But essentially, the law is about churches or organizations. This allows individuals, small businesses, to basically -- I mean, to make decisions based on their religious beliefs. So again, what is this for? What in this law is preventing a catholic loan officer from refusing a loan to an unwed mother because it deeply goes against his religious beliefs and that's what he argues?
KAVANAGH: Because we wrote into the law to make sure that people weren't concerned about this that the religious belief has to be sincerely held --
COOPER: OK. So a sincere catholic loan officer. Doing a loan with somebody is a substantial burden that's going into business with somebody.
KAVANAGH: No, it's not. Let me give you an example. Yes, a substantial burden would be if you tell a roman catholic priest they must officiate at a gay wedding.
COOPER: But sir, that's not in your law.
KAVANAGH: Yes, it is.
COOPER: Sir, in your law, no. A substantial burden is defined, as I wrote it down, is trivial -- a burden on their beliefs not trivial, not technical or not minor.
KAVANAGH: That's correct.
COOPER: So going into business with someone, loaning them money, that's not trivial, that's not technical, and that's not minor.
KAVANAGH: That is not a substantial burden. Let me give you an example. COOPER: How are you to judge that? It is not in your law. That's not what it says in your law.
KAVANAGH: Well, it will go to courts. But the courts have been ruling on what is a burden going back decades.
COOPER: So you've written this law with the knowledge that this is just all going to end up in court. This is going to end up costing a an awful lot of money.
KAVANAGH: No, no, no. We have not changed the standards. The standards are the same under federal law which the ACLU supported. It has to be a substantial burden. That's already case law.
COOPER: You have to explain how loaning money to somebody or entering business with somebody or for instance I'm a bed and breakfast owner and I'm a Christian. I don't want someone sleeping in my house in my bed and breakfast who is an unwed mother or single mother. That's not trivial.
KAVANAGH: No. Let me give you an example with a substantial burden. Let's take the case of a photographer. This was one such case. If you make a photographer photograph say a gay wedding, right? That's where he becomes involved in the celebration, he is involve in the process, that's a substantial burden.
KAVANAGH: If a gay couple walks into his studio and gets a passport photo that is not a substantial burden. That's where the law is now and we're not changing it.
COOPER: All right. So, under your argument, being a wedding photographer at a wedding is a substantial burden, but going to business with someone loaning them money and being involved with them on an ongoing basis far more than just a wedding that's not substantial. I want to bring in our law professor over here.
KAVANAGH: No, because you are not using your money to affirm their lifestyle. You're giving them money to buy a house or buy a car. There's not religious about that.
COOPER: That's not affirming their lifestyle? Not allowing them their lifestyle?
Kenji, what do you think about that?
KAVANAGH: No. Because you are affirming they are going to drive a car or live in a house. That's a lot different than going to their wedding and celebrating it.
COOPER: All right, Kenji, you are a professor, a law professor in NYU. Under this law, if I'm a catholic loan officer, can I stop, can I say I'm not going to give a loan? KENJI YOSHIMO, LAW PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: I think you absolutely could. And I think where, with all the due respect to the representative, I think this argument falls apart is that he's saying in his opinion this would not be a substantial burden. But it's actually not his determination to make.
What constitutes a substantial burden will come up on a case-by-case basis and it is going to be determined by a particular court. So, if you get a court that actually thinks that this is a substantial burden for the loan officer to have a sincerely held belief not to give a loan to an unwed mother or to gay couple, then, that court is going to say that's a substantial burden.
The representative also mentioned earlier case law. This law does actually goes back to the 1960s with the Supreme Court, 1953, Sherbert Versus Yoder case in 1972. And in the Yoder case, there was $5 fine that was deemed to be substantial burden for this Amish school children.
So even something that does seem to ought to be trivial may not to a downstream court which is not the legislature who is making this law seem to be an anti-burden.
COOPER: And Congressman, you point to this case in New Mexico of a wedding photographer who was asked to take photographs of a wedding of a gay couple, chose not to, end up getting sued. In New Mexico, though, there are statutes preventing discrimination against gay people. And that's why this case was brought. In Arizona there are no such statutes. So it's actually legal right now to fire somebody because they're gay in Arizona except in a couple of cities that have enacted statutes.
So I get why you're doing this. But I don't see the need for this bill. There are plenty of protections for people who have sincerely held religious beliefs. Where is the huge amount of discrimination against religious people as opposed to the current discrimination that exists in Arizona against gay people?
KAVANAGH: Well, this is not solely a gay issue. In fact, most of the cases under the religious freedoms restoration act involve native Americans. This covers anybody. The catholic doctor who doesn't want to do an abortion. So it's not just about gays.
COOPER: No. I'm well aware of that.
KAVANAGH: We did not make one change to the language of what's allowed and what's not allowed. All we did was we made a change as to that it's no longer just an individual that's protected, it's also groups of individuals, and we said it's not just direct government action, it's if somebody sues under a government law.
KAVANAGH: We didn't change the underlying law that's been found constitutional at the federal and state level for 20 years. So I don't see what the minor tweaks yesterday suddenly create an unconstitutional crisis.
COOPER: Kenji, are these minor tweaks?
YOSHIMO: These are not minor tweaks. So, you know, just to start with the notion that we're moving from governmentally sponsored legislation to individual. So, what the religious freedom restoration act said is you cannot actually burden, substantially burden an individual's sincerely held religious beliefs.
Now, the government is out of the picture. And even an individual discriminating against another individual based on sincerely held beliefs is going to be protected.
COOPER: And anybody for their religious beliefs. So, there are hundreds of different kinds of religions in this country. People say have all sorts of different beliefs. White supremacist who has part of the Christian identity movement could make an argument that discriminating against a particular unwed mother, again somebody who's not protected by federal statutes, is against their religious beliefs.
YOSHIMO: Exactly right. And here I would quote the words of the great Justice Scalia in a debate he had with Justice Breyer, where he said France is a country with 300 cheeses and two religions and we're the opposite. We have 300 religions and two cheeses. It opens the question of what the other cheese is, right?
But who wants to negotiate and live in a world like this where we have 300 religions including Satanists, including, you know, all these different kinds of religion who can say I sincerely hold this belief and you're substantially burdening it. It's very hard for an individual, anyone, whether they are gay or unwed mother, whoever, to navigate that world.
COOPER: Representative Kavanagh, do you think Jan Brewer is going to sign this?
KAVANAGH: Absolutely. She was concerned about vagueness in the law last time. And that language was tightened up. In fact, we used an Arizona Supreme Court standard that tightened the law even further that explains how a bogus claim can't be done.
A guy tried to claim he could smoke marijuana because of his religion. The court said that's not a sincerely held belief. That's ridiculous. And in through the case, they say you can be prosecuted and we used the same language so that we don't have bogus charges used as protections.
COOPER: But you do admit it, it's not up to you define what a substantial burden is. I mean, in your --
KAVANAGH: The courts have done it already since 1990 they've done it. We haven't changed the definitions of the law. We're just changing the fact that now it also protects groups instead of just individual people. And that's already part of Arizona law elsewhere.
COOPER: Kenji. YOSHIMO: First, I want to just note that the language has shifted where originally, he was saying, you know, we determine what the substantial burden is. Now he's saying the courts determine what the substantial burden is. So that's a shift.
And second of all, I would say that when he says that the courts have decided this, the courts have decided it but they haven't decided it in a uniform way. There's been a spread, right? So some courts have said yes, you know, we believe that the church of marijuana isn't a real church, right? But other churches have said, yes, native Americans who want to smoke peyote, you know, are a church, right? So you or I may agree or disagree with any one of those determinations. But again, there's a spread.
COOPER: Representative Kavanagh, I appreciate you being on.
KAVANAGH: Does the professor oppose the federal law? Is the federal law also racist? Because ours is the same as the federal law in definition.
YOSHIMO: No. I actually did oppose the federal law first of all on establishing ground as well as equal protection grounds. So I think I've been consistent in that. But I also want to note reiterate what I said before which is that this law goes significantly further. What you're calling tweaks are actually a massive metastasization (ph) of what the original religious freedom restoration have stood for.
COOPER: Representative Kavanagh --
KAVANAGH: You got to read the bill.
COOPER: Well, we have all read the bill. We appreciate you being on. Kenji Yoshimo, as well. Thank you very much. Obviously not the last we'll be reporting on this.
Now, the political deal in Ukraine that caps a week of bloody clashes between police and protesters that left dozens of people dead, threatened to tear the country apart. Gives independent square quiet tense tonight as people digest agreement. We are learning more about how was hashed out among Ukrainian leaders, opposition figures and representatives of the European union. Heavy pressure from Germany's prime minister and the White House who reportedly taking a highly in the deal.
Mr. Obama spoke for an hour today with Russian president Putin. The two exchanging views, as the White House put it, on the need to quickly implement the agreement and from all sides to quote "refrain from further violence." In that agreement which trims presidential powers and revises the constitution is being put to the test as we speak.
Nick Paton Walsh is there in Kiev gauging the reaction. He joins us now, The latest truce provided some hope. I imagine hopes are still very raw. What's the latest on the ground?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On the ground it's very quiet behind me. There are still a lot of people in the square. There's soot, ash across the floor of that square. We've seen coffins brought through. Police nowhere to be seen, really. Very distant at all as mostly protesters around parliament, the presidential administration here. When interestingly the opposition leaders came onto the stage here and tried to talk to the protesters about the deal they just signed, a lot of them would jeer. A lot of people in this crowd is not happy about the concessions that are being made and the fact that Viktor Yanukovych is still in power on them.
COOPER: So, I mean, is the protest continue. I can hear in the background. It sound like everybody is still in the square?
WALSH: That's absolutely right. There is still a lot of people still down here. We are waiting to go see if they honor their side of the deal 48 hours from when this deal came into implementation. They should start clearing out public spaces like what is behind me by 4:00 tomorrow. They should start disarming or they may face consequences under the law under this deal.
For President Viktor Yanukovych, we have already seen his power weakened by parliament, his interior ministries stuck (ph) by this newly emboldens parliaments. There are questions about precisely where he is right now. And state department officials saying maybe he's left the capital for the eastern city of Harkiev. That's also been suggested by a leading opposition M.P. here. So, a country really on the balance right now.
COOPER: And I mean, there has been so much anger, so much bloodshed, loss of life. Will any agreement that leaves the president in power be accepted ultimately by the protesters?
WALSH: So far it looks like there was some who refused to accept that. And we have spoke to some of those guys today. They say quite simply unless he's gone by 10:00 tomorrow morning they will quote "do something." Suggestion move occupy some buildings around here or take some further direct action.
That's really the flaw in this deal. That's why the leaders who signed it got jeered. They now they've weakened his powers. But he can still be in that post until December despite being weakened. Protesters worry he could persecute, prosecute them or regain his hold on power. So this is very much a deal that's been signed but actually it is implementation in the next two days ahead is where it could possibly fall apart again.
COOPER: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate it. Nick, thank you very much. Be careful.
Let us know what you think. Follow me on twit twitter @andersoncooper. Tweet us using #AC360.
Coming up next, the archbishop's house. Critics say he's living like a prince among paupers. We are Keeping them Honest. They're closing schools in Newark, but he's building this fancy house.
Later, the woman whose quick action saved her baby nephew's life, an amazing story. We'll talk to her ahead.
COOPER: Hey, welcome back.
Pope Francis is both a global spiritual leader and head of the longest running empire on earth. Where he's really caught the world's eye, though, is in trying to run that empire, that religion, without living and acting like an emperor. And he's called on his clerics to follow the example, to embrace modesty. He has certainly done it in his own example to put aside in his words the psychologies of princes and prune the vineyard of life from that which was merely useless foliage and go straight to the essentials. That's what he is all about.
Which raises a question into which category does a 4500 square foot vacation home fall? What about a parochial school serving some of the country's needless kids which is useless foliage and which is essential? Well, the school run by Newark's New Jersey archdiocese was shut down for lack of funds. The archdiocese also paid to build a vacation home for the Archbishop John Myers, and far from being pruned it's getting a half million dollar addition. It's not big enough apparently.
360 ace Randi Kaye tonight Keeping Them Honest.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a sprawling five- bedroom, three-bathroom pool with a pool. It sits at the edge of this private road in this tiny hamlet of Pittstown, New Jersey. And it may surprise you who lives here. John Myers, the archbishop of Newark, New Jersey, has been using it as a weekend getaway, but soon will live here full time. Parishioners are questioning why the church's money is being spent on this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should give to it charity before they build a beautiful house.
KAYE: A house that's about to get even bigger. It was first bought by the Newark archdiocese in 2002 for $700,000. Now they've begun a major renovation, a 3,000 square foot addition costing at least another half a million dollars. It will include an exercise pool, a hot tub, library, and a second elevator. Once done, the home's size will jump to 7400 square feet. And its value? At least $1.3 million.
(on-camera): If you could sum up this type of spending in one word, what would it be?
ROBERT HOATSON, FORMER PRIEST: Extravagant, scandalous, and outrageous.
KAYE: Robert Hoatson used to be a priest with the Newark archdiocese. He has long been critical of the church and says archbishop Myers needs to get his priorities straight.
HOATSON: A priest should never be living in a home that is that elegant. He's going to need a staff to maintain that home. And if he's going to be 75 in two years he's certainly not going to take care of that building by himself.
KAYE: You don't have to look very far to see where all that money may have been better spent. Schools, nursing homes and hospitals have all closed. The homeless and the poor are also in need.
This school closed back in 2011. The archdiocese blamed it on low enrollment, telling us enrollment dropped by one-third in just the first two years. But Hoatson says if the archdiocese had given the school more money they wouldn't have had to raise tuition, which he says was the real cause of lower enrollment.
In a statement a spokesman for the archdiocese explained the church had pumped $300,000 annually into the school. Adding, the archdiocese was unable to continue to provide such a significant subsidy to a single school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My God, they could put the school back into business again. What did they need such a big house for the archbishop?
KAYE: Keeping Them Honest. This isn't the first time Archbishop Myers has gone on a spending spree. Back in 2001, the archbishop remodeled his residence and air conditioned the cathedral. The price tag? Two million bucks. The church said the money was donated.
The archdiocese says the funds for the archbishop's home are also coming from donations, and sales of other residential church properties.
Doesn't this go against everything that the Pope has been sending in terms of a message?
HOATSON: Absolutely. The Pope has told bishops and priests to smell the sheep, smell the flock. In other words, get down and dirty with the people that we're sent to serve.
KAYE: The only way to touch the hearts of the people, he says, is to be one of the people.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Newark, New Jersey.
COOPER: I want to dig deeper now on the story with Michael Powell who's been writing about the story. He is Gotham columnist of the "New York times," also Charles Zech, director of Villanova University Center for church management and business ethics.
Michael, I've read your stuff on this. And -- I mean, the archdiocese is saying look this money isn't coming from parishioners. It is coming from donations. It is coming from the sale of properties. But still, it's money that could have been spent in other areas.
MICHAEL POWELL, GOTHAM COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. I mean, it's church property. So at some point you got those church properties, you obtained them by buying them. You used the money of parishioners. It's a strange distinction. I must say it kind of eludes me. You know, they got -- they have money. They obtained money from both wealthy parishioners and of course people who put a few dollars in that plate every week.
COOPER: It's also -- he's already renovated his house. This is now a second house that he's going to I guess move into full time. And there is one thing -- and the house looks quite lovely as it is without the addition. But I mean, there's a whirlpool, an indoor exercise pool as well as a pool outside, three fireplaces. It's pretty extravagant.
POWELL: Yes. They made a point of telling me it wasn't a hot tub, it was a whirlpool. Point taken.
COOPER: I'm not sure what that distinction is.
POWELL: Call it what you will.
COOPER: He has not take an vow of poverty, I guess, so it's not violating that. But certainly from a perception standpoint.
POWELL: Yes. And actually, you know, it's very interesting. I looked it up. And it's in a different diocese, the diocese of Metuchen. And the former bishop of Metuchen, that is where this vacation home is, when he retired, he went to a very humble home, lived with some other priests, apparently, in a place that was spiritual and frankly much lower key and less extravagant than this. So I mean, it's not as if there aren't bishops out there who are make a decision to live more humbly.
COOPER: And you look at the Pope not living in the official residence.
Charles, you say this archbishop isn't paying attention to the Pope's message, calling for clergy members to live a simpler lifestyle.
CHARLES ZECH, DIRECTOR, FOR CHURCH MANAGEMENT AND BUSINESS ETHICS: Absolutely. He's one of those archbishops who predates the Pope, obviously and near retirement. He's really not paying much attention to what the Pope is asking.
COOPER: Why do you think that is? Has he spoken publicly about this? Obviously his spokesman is the one who has the unenviable job of trying to explain this to parishioners.
ZECH: No. To my mind, my knowledge, the archbishop has not spoken publicly about this and for good reason. It's very hard to defend.
COOPER: Michael you've gotten a lot of e-mails from Catholics around the country. What kind of response are these? POWELL: I've gotten a stunning number of e-mail. And you know, one way, I find it actually quite hopeful from the point of view of the church in that people are both quite angry, which is it strikes me a good thing in that they're not simply resigned at it. And also, I've been struck by how many -- and I've received literally hundreds of e- mails from people saying I'm going to send this to the Pope. I'm going to send this to the Pope. And not just, you know, because I want to rub it, but because he's going to feel my anger. He's going to feel my, you know, this sense of abandonment by this bishop. So I would, in a strange way, I would kind of take that as a good sign for the church.
COOPER: And people are re-engaged in a way in the church that they're not accepting this.
POWELL: Precisely. I mean, they expect better of their church and their sense is that their church perhaps at the very top expects better, too.
COOPER: Charles, do you see also that as a hopeful sign, the fact that people are saying to Michael, I'm going to send this to the Pope?
ZECH: I too have received the same sort of e-mails and telephone calls. And yes, people at one time were pray pay and obey Catholics are taking exception to this. In fact, one woman told me when she challenged the spokesperson for the archdiocese, she was told the archbishop only reports to the Pope. In other words, parishioner opinions matter little and that really alienates people when they hear things like that.
Well, we will continue to follow it. Charles, appreciate you being on and Michael as well. Very good reporting, thank you.
Just ahead tonight, a baby stops breathing in the middle of a traffic jam. Driving your car, your baby stops breathing. Good Samaritans step up to help his panic aunt who was driving the car. Tonight, she describes how the nightmare unfolded. That's her giving mouth-to- mouth to her nephew who survived. That's one of the stolen out right here. It is such a good story.
Plus, caught between two countries and wanted by neither, Kyung Lah takes us inside a place known as purgatory by the people who live there.
COOPER: A 5-month-old baby in Miami is alive tonight thanks to his aunt, emergency responders and the kindness of strangers. Sebastian Dela Cruz is in the hospital in critical but stable condition after a scare that can only be described as nightmarish.
Pamela Rauseo was struck in traffic with her nephew, Sebastian, strapped into his car seat in the back when the baby stopped breathing. The pictures captured by "Miami Herald" photographer who happened to be also be stuck in traffic tell the story.
A frantic Pamela screamed for help then repeatedly did CPR on her baby nephew as police officers and strangers came to her aid. The very heroic Pamela joins me. Pamela, explain when you realized something was going wrong with your nephew.
PAMELA RAUSEO, NEPHEW STOPPED BREATHING ON HIGHWAY: I was driving and he was sitting down directly behind me. So I couldn't see him and then he stopped crying. And that concerned me because usually when I'm in traffic, if the car's not moving he'll start getting fussy. And once the car starts moving, he'll calm down.
So I didn't understand why he was calm when we were at a standstill. And I pulled over and put the car in park and I jumped back to check up on him. He was pale and unresponsive. So I quickly got him out of his car seat.
I went back up to the front with him, all the time like calling him to see if he would respond. And at the same time, I was trying to use the on star system in the car to dial 911, but I was just too nervous.
COOPER: Was he turning blue?
RAUSEO: He was blue. He was blue and then he was purple.
COOPER: My gosh, and you began asking for help, calling out.
RAUSEO: I got out of the car immediately and I started screaming, asking for help, and kind of like signalling that it was for the baby, you know, like look, I have this infant in my hands. Somebody help. Two people came. I asked them if they knew CPR. They said no. I asked them to call 911. They did.
And the lady, she was amazing. She helped keep me calm. She kept telling me that he would be OK, but since they didn't know CPR, I dropped down to my knees and I started doing what I thought was right.
COOPER: Had you ever taken a class or anything?
RAUSEO: I had.
COOPER: Wow. So did you remember everything or just a few things that you just started to do?
RAUSEO: Listen, I was a hot mess. If my life depended on it, I cannot tell you what I did but I don't think I did what I was supposed to do. I don't know how it worked.
COOPER: A photographer happened to be there as well. Once he saw help was there he started taking pictures. These photos are just extraordinary. Was the baby conscious? When he was turning blue were his eyes open at all?
RAUSEO: No, no. He was completely -- his eyes were closed. He was completely unresponsive. The baby eventually regained consciousness again as I was performing CPR on him, and then once he regained consciousness fire rescue was there. They then took the baby from me and they were wonderful. COOPER: Do you know how long this went on for? I mean, I know in these situations it's hard to tell time often. Do you have a sense how long you were doing this for?
RAUSEO: Well, if you ask my imagination I'll tell you it was like ten years. That's how long it seemed. I'm guessing it was maybe 6, 7 minutes, the whole ordeal from the moment that I got out of my car.
COOPER: And how is Sebastian doing now?
RAUSEO: He's stable, thank God. He's still in the hospital. The doctors are still running a series of tests to determine exactly what it is that's causing him to have difficulty breathing.
COOPER: Well, it's certainly not only extraordinary what you did, but also it's just a great sign that there were people who in this situation were out of their cars on a highway willing to help. So many times when we hear horror stories of people ignoring things, and it's great this brought out really the best in people. I'm so glad Sebastian is doing OK. We wish him the best. Pamela, thank you so much.
RAUSEO: Thank you.
COOPER: Amazing story. We wish Pamela obviously and her whole family well. Here are some recent family photos, incredibly beautiful family. So many people rooting for Sebastian, we hope he'll be out of the hospital and back home very, very soon.
One other note, the Sweetwater Police Department says the chief is recommending the officer who responded, Morris Pestedas for officer of the month for his work helping Pamela revive her nephew.
There is a lot more happening tonight, Randi Kaye is back with the 360 Bulletin -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Venezuela's president is again suggesting U.S. is stoking anti-government protests throughout his country. At a news conference this evening, President Nicolas Maduro challenged President Obama to start direct government to government talks.
The Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity has suspended its chapter at Ole Miss. The move comes after three freshman members are accused of putting a noose around the statue of civil rights icon, James Meredith, and leaving a flag with a confederate symbol. The school wants the three students arrested.
In the nation's capital, a newly released internal report shows five firefighters heard that this man had fallen across the street from their fire house last month, but none went to help him. An ambulance then went to the wrong part of the city. Cecil Mills later died at a hospital.
Under Armour has extended its exclusive contract with the U.S. Speed Skating Association through 2022 despite some controversy over the suits worn at the Sochi Olympic Games. No American earned a medal there sparking concern that the skin suits were to blame.
And veteran broadcast news man, Gary Utley has died of prostate cancer. He was 74. Utley reported from more than 75 countries during a career spent mostly at NBC News. He opened NBC's bureau in Vietnam back in 1964, and in 1997, he moved to CNN as a contributor -- Anderson.
COOPER: What an amazing career and life he had. Randi, thanks very much.
Just ahead tonight, deported by the U.S., unwanted in Mexico, they now spend their days in a place they call purgatory. A sewage canal on the border stuck in limbo between two countries that don't want him.
Plus a new star for some of Sochi's stray dogs. U.S. Olympian Gus Kenworthy joins me to talk about the five lucky dogs he is bringing home to Colorado.
COOPER: A new report out this month shows that nearly half of illegal immigrants facing deportation from the United States are winning their cases, their success rate in 20 years. But what happens when the government wins? Nearly 2 million immigrants have been deported under the Obama administration. Tonight CNN's Kyung Lah shows us where some of them end up.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In one week, Miguel Valdez, went from an American life to a life he never imagined, dragging everything he owned to his new home, the Tijuana River Channel.
(on camera): Do you even speak Spanish?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not very well.
LAH (voice-over): But he's learning as he begs for food in Mexican shelters. Valdez is not an illegal immigrant. His parents crossed the border to the U.S. illegally, bringing him along when he was 4. Valdez got a green card, a college degree and a job as a computer programmer in Los Angeles.
So how did he end up here? As an adult, he didn't get his U.S. citizenship. So when he was arrested for drugs and illegal possession of a gun, the U.S. government could and did legally revoke his green card and deport him. Now he's here, no money, no Mexican friends or family, and no I.D. for either country.
(on camera): This feels like a foreign country to you.
MIGUEL VALDEZ, DEPORTED BY U.S.: It just feels, I mean, being so close it feels just like the gate itself is like so far away even if I was standing right next to it.
LAH (voice-over): We can see the fence from this place called El Bordo, or you might call it hell on earth. Those who dot this canal call it purgatory, the border's purgatory, a place without religion, order, and in many cases hope. They were ejected by the U.S. and are unwelcome in Mexico, stateless and stuck between the two countries.
(on camera): This is literally a sewer. It flows through Tijuana so all the city's garbage ends up here. There are no official figures of how many people live here, but advocates estimate it's about 4,000. And most, they say, are deportees.
(voice-over): Coping as best they can, says Fernando Miranda, he's draining water out of his house, if you can call it that. It's a hole he's built with the canal's debris.
(on camera): It's really small.
FERNANDO MIRANDA, DEPORTED BY U.S.: Yes.
LAH: This is just plywood?
LAH: You sleep here.
LAH: You realize we're standing in garbage.
(voice-over): We're surrounded by it, Miranda says. "I found the wood in the sewage water. Everything here is trash." Miranda used his construction skills from working 25 years in Silicon Valley's housing industry to build this solid hut, held together by, as you can see, shoestring and torn t-shirts.
It's as close as he can be to his four children on the other side of the border. The undocumented worker was deported nearly three years ago after a traffic stop.
(on camera): So no U.S. passport and no Mexican I.D.
LAH: Nada. This is your door.
(voice-over): He says Mexicans discriminate against deportees like him because he lived in the U.S. for decades. His home is purposely hard to see because the Tijuana police constantly harass him and everyone else in El Bordo.
We spotted officers driving through the canal. They would not speak to us, and the Tijuana police would not give CNN an interview. But they have openly called the deportees criminals and a public health threat to Tijuana.
HECTOR BARAJAS/ACTIVIST: It's a no man's land. Mexico doesn't want you and the U.S. sure as hell doesn't want you. LAH: Barajas is himself a deportee, a U.S. army veteran of the 82nd Airborne. Barajas says he was honorably discharged, but he openly admits he's not an angel. He was arrested for shooting an illegal firearm. That is a felony. His green card was revoked and it's taken him years to get back on his feet in Mexico, a place he left as a young child.
BARAJAS: When you get here, you come with nothing. So you probably spent four or five days in detention. You look like you're homeless. There are a lot of American people here.
LAH: They may feel like American people, but they're not American. And that's a frustration. Trapped in a place both governments want to forget. Kyung Lah, CNN, at the U.S.-Mexican border.
COOPER: Just ahead tonight, saving Sochi's stray dogs. Why bring home just one when you can save a whole family. That's how a U.S. Olympian Gus Kenworthy saw it. He joins me to talk about the five dogs, mom and her puppies he fell in love with and that he is bringing home.
COOPER: Tonight's American journey stretches halfway around the globe. You probably heard about all the stray dogs in Sochi and how U.S. Olympic athletes are giving them a home. Gus Kenworthy who won a silver medal for the U.S. in men's slope style skiing is adopting not one, but five dogs, a mom and her puppies.
He fell in love with the whole family. The dogs are still in Sochi, Russia, but will be joining him shortly in Colorado. Gus is back in the United States. He joins us tonight.
These puppies are unbelievably cute. How did this happen?
GUS KENWORTHY, U.S. OLYMPIC SILVER MEDALIST: I had a friend that was out in Russia doing some media stuff during the Olympics. He knows that I'm just dog crazy. He texted me a photo of the dogs and I basically just ran over and had to check them out and instantly fell in love with them.
COOPER: Did you have dogs growing up?
KENWORTHY: Yes, when I was really young we weren't allowed to because the house my mom.
COOPER: Dude you're still really young.
KENWORTHY: When I was really, really young we couldn't have dogs in my mom's house because she lives in a restricted area. You just can't have dogs and then after my parents got divorced, my 11th birthday, my dad got me a puppy from the shelter. He was like my best friend growing up. He passed away like year and a half ago. So I've pretty recently been thinking about getting another dog, been wanting to. COOPER: Getting one dog is one thing. Are you ready for all these dogs?
KENWORTHY: I'm not going to take care of all of them, but definitely just wanted to keep them together and try and bring all of them home and give them all a better life. My oldest brother and his fiancee have asked if they can have one of the puppies. My mom is going to take the mother dog and there's definitely good homes for them. But I'm going to keep two of the puppies.
COOPER: Do you have names yet?
KENWORTHY: Yes. The littlest dog, my sweet little girl, Rosa and the biggest dog is the other one I'm going to keep. We've named him Jake. And then the other puppy is Gorky because they were living underneath the Gorky Media Center. And then the mom we've just been calling mama the whole time. So I think he's just going to keep that.
COOPER: How hard has it been? They're still over there. How hard is it to get them back here?
KENWORTHY: It's been pretty difficult getting the dogs back. There are all sorts of paper work and obstacles you have to get past and hoops you have to jump through. But it hasn't been too crazy. I have a friend that's over there, the friend that help me find them.
He's still there and trying to help me bring them back. My agent and the Humane Society here, there's been a ton of people that have reached out and just wanted to help.
COOPER: The Humane Society has said this has actually been a really beneficial thing for even dogs here in the United States, that there's so much focus on now stray dogs that they're getting a lot of calls.
KENWORTHY: Yes. I mean, for sure. I think a lot of people too were like, why are you bringing dogs back from Russia? The amount of money and energy and everything it costs to do that, you could adopt way more dogs here. It wasn't really the fact that I had to bring a dog home from there.
It's just that I saw these dogs and it was more just like I fell in love with them. I couldn't bear to leave them. So I had to bring them back. And hopefully it sparks people's interest to adopt dogs here and for people in Russia to maybe bring some of them inside and make the strays pets.
COOPER: Do you know when they're going to get here?
KENWORTHY: I think my dogs are coming in like ten more days. They've been vaccinated, had all their inoculations, just require a bit more time before they're able to travel.
COOPER: You couldn't bring them to the Olympic Village, right?
KENWORTHY: No. It sucked! They stayed underneath the media center the whole time. I was like dudes these are mine I'm taking these. But then I had to leave them every day. I'd go in the morning and go to practice for an hour or two and then I would go to see my dogs and play with them.
COOPER: You had dibs on them.
KENWORTHY: They're mine.
COOPER: What's better, the medal or puppy love?
KENWORTHY: I mean, the puppy love is fantastic. I mean, I'd say they're equally awesome. The dogs I'm pretty excited about for sure. Just because they are adorable and fun to cuddle with and I'm just really excited to have them in my life. But the medal has been something I've worked really hard for, for a long time.
COOPER: The medal is incredible. It's very heavy. What does it feel like to finally -- you've been doing this since you were 3 years old.
KENWORTHY: Yes. It's been awesome. I'd say I pretty much have been like preparing for this moment since I was 3, just skiing as much as I could. I don't know if we really call it like training necessarily because we are just having a lot of fun. That's one thing that's so great about action sports, every time we're out on the hill we're kind of progressing ourselves and learning new tricks and trying to get better and push ourselves.
COOPER: Congratulations on all your success --
KENWORTHY: Thank you.
COOPER: And also getting the dogs over here.
KENWORTHY: Thanks. Appreciate it.
COOPER: Great thing. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Out of time for "The Ridiculist" tonight. That does it for us. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.