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Arizona Passes Controversial Law; Michele Bachmann: U.S. Not Ready for Female President

Aired February 21, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That call was going to occur roughly around that time period.

So, we believe that the two presidents have spoken.

And, Don, I had a chance to ask Jay Carney about this comment that the president made earlier this week, that he is not involved in some sort of international chess game with Vladimir Putin over the Ukraine. He said, no, that is definitely not the case and it's not a tug of war. And he even went as far as to say this is not a proxy conflict with Russia when it comes to Ukraine, that this is about the rights of the people of Ukraine to protest peacefully.

We will find out here very shortly what this conversation was like. But White House Press Secretary Jay Carney made it pretty clear during that briefing that the president was going to be frank and candid with the Russian president. And that is something that, Don, the president has said himself.

When he was asked that question the other night about Putin's influence in Ukraine, the president said he is candid, he is forthright with Vladimir Putin when he gets him on the phone. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say I guess when it comes out in this readout that we are expecting from White House officials any moment -- Don.

LEMON: Jim Acosta at the White House, Jim, I appreciate that.

I want go now to Arizona, because businesses there may soon have the legal right to refuse to service gays and others if that business owner feels like that person in some way is violating their religious beliefs. This bill has cleared the legislature and is now sitting on the governor's desk. Supporters don't see what all the fuss is about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH KREDIT, CENTER FOR ARIZONA POLICY: In America, people should be free to live and work according to their faiths.

ADAM KWASMAN (R), ARIZONA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I don't see this as an attack in so far as those who believe and when you are protecting your right to, A., practice religion and not engage in a contract.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Well, opponents call it the right to discriminate bill. Arizona is not the only state to take up the legislation widely seen as singling out gays and same-sex couples in particular.

So-called religious freedom bills have been proposed in all these states, though Arizona's plan is the only that has passed.

Joining me now is Lisa Bloom. She's a legal analyst at Avvo.com. And also I need to mention that she is the author of "Suspicion Nation: The Inside Story of the Trayvon Martin Injustice and Why We Continue to Repeat It."

Lisa, how is this bill even constitutional?

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: I think this is outrageous.

And let's remember this is the oldest story in the book. Religion was used to justify slavery, discrimination against African-Americans in the civil rights era, discrimination against women and now this.

I don't think it is going ultimately be held up. You cannot have a second-class status for citizens. Court after court has been holding that in the area of lesbian and gay rights now, upholding the rights of lesbian and gays to marry, for example.

Can you imagine if business owners can say you can't come into my shop or restaurant or hotel because I personally don't like gay people and it's against my religion?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: What about this, Lisa? What if someone said I don't want you to come in because I'm a non-believer, I'm an atheist, and you're a believer, and that offends me? What if it was reversed? It's the same thing, right?

BLOOM: Right. It's an exception that swallows the rule.

And either everyone in America is equal or everyone is not equal.

LEMON: Amen. Yes.

BLOOM: As Martin Luther King said all we ask of America is be true to what you said on paper. And what our Constitution says is equal protection of the laws.

LEMON: These measures aim to shield business owners from discrimination suits. Right? But what about the federal civil rights protections here?

BLOOM: Right. And so that's the problem.

I don't think ultimately this law is going to be upheld. I think it's pandering to a certain portion of the population who wants to continue to discriminate against gays and lesbians. That portion of the population is clearly on the wrong side of history. We are moving forward very rapidly now for LGBT rights. And thank goodness that we are. I think this is going to be a blip on the radar and ultimately it will not be upheld.

LEMON: I need to say, Lisa Bloom, thank you so much. We did invite Republicans on, people who support the bill, and no one took us up on that. Again, our thanks to Lisa Bloom.

BLOOM: Thank you.

LEMON: Meantime, a tough day for American hockey fans. Yes, the music means it's time for information about the Olympics. But this is not really good news.

The U.S. men's hockey team lost to Canada in today's Olympic semifinal match. Canada defeated the U.S. with a score of 1-0. Canada advances to the gold medal game against Sweden, who beat Finland. It's the second day in a row that Canada has dashed U.S. hockey dreams. U.S. women lost a heartbreaker match to Canada yesterday to get an Olympic to get a silver medal.

The woman dubbed the Michael Jordan of figure skating was dethroned last night. Some people are calling foul now. South Korea's Yuna Kim was Olympic gold in 2010 and was the heavy favorite going into last night's free skate portion of the women's competition.

She lost out to a 17-year-old Russian who became the country's first female skater to win gold in this category. Some say the Russian stepped out after landing a triple jump. The judges' anonymous scoring sparking some outrage. One judge, a Ukrainian, was suspended for a year for trying to fix an event at the 1998 Winter Olympics. Remember that?

Another judge is married to the head of the Russian Figure Skating Federation. What?

We want a skating insider to weigh in on this. Former U.S. Olympic figure skating coach Audrey Weisiger joins us now from Colorado.

What is going on here? This does not seem right.

AUDREY WEISIGER, FORMER U.S. OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATING COACH: It's figure skating. You have to realize that there is always going to be some controversy when you have sports and art.

However, I'm not saying it's right. My reaction yesterday to the results was that the wrong person was in first place. I do think all three girls skated very, very well and that they are to be commended. However, I think the judging, something was afoul.

LEMON: So, you don't think the scoring was accurate. Should judges' scores remain anonymous or should there be transparent?

WEISIGER: They should be 100 percent transparent. If we are going remain a legitimate sport, we have to be sure that the people can participate in them can understand how they are placed and how the public perceives our sport to me is very important. LEMON: American figure skater, Audrey, Wagner slammed the judging. Did last night's judging affect the American skaters' chance for a medal, you think?

WEISIGER: I don't really think the American girls were in serious contention to win. I do think that they had potential to be on the podium.

And I do think that the top three girls should have been the top three girls, Carolina Kostner from Italy, Yuna Kim from Korea and Adelina Sotnikova, who had the skate of her life. However, she is not the same class and caliber as the other two ladies.

I would have been OK with Kostner winning or Yuna Kim of course being the champion. I think they have to take a look at the protocols, which is like a chemical. It's very hard for the average person to decipher. I think that needs to be changed for the sport to become more popular and user-friendly.

LEMON: My question to you, I said, what is going on? You said it's figure skating. You say you retired from competitive coaching because you didn't look the direction figure skating is headed. What should be done to clean up the sport, in your estimation?

WEISIGER: You nailed it.

Transparency from the judges. Make the sport so that it's a little bit more user-friendly for the athletes and the coaches. I retired from competitive coaching because I felt that the sport was becoming so complicated and very cookie-cutter, like a lot of the programs have the exact same elements in them that are sort of dictated to go after points.

I don't think figure skating is -- it's an art as well as a sport. It's not just a magic formula to win. And I do think that that's what the audiences are missing. We have to get back to the performance and we have to get back to the artistry and the audience connection in order for it to become more popular again. I do think -- I understand they had to quantify it because of the scandal in Salt Lake City, but they have gone the wrong direction.

Maybe when they bring it back around, I will consider becoming a full- time elite coach again.

LEMON: I really appreciate your candor and we appreciate your words.

Thank you very much for joining us here, Audrey Weisiger.

WEISIGER: Thank you.

LEMON: All right.

Strong words from a member of Congress. Americans are not ready for a female president. The person behind those comments, Representative Michele Bachmann. And the reason she believes has a lot of people fired up today. We will tell you what she said and that's next. Plus, we are learning just how much the state of Colorado is making off of legalizing recreational marijuana. And it is a very, very big number. Will that entice other states to consider legalizing weed?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Michele Bachmann ran for president in the last election and for a brief moment there, her campaign for the Republican nomination seemed to catch fire, for a brief moment.

But now Bachmann is saying America is not ready for a female president. Here's where it really gets interesting. Bachmann told an interviewer that a woman running for president would be a bigger disadvantage, at a bigger disadvantage than Barack Obama was when he ran.

Here's what she told Cal Thomas. She says: "I think there was a cachet about having an African-American the president because of the guilt. People don't hold guilt for a woman. I don't think there is a pent-up desire for a woman president."

I almost want to laugh when I'm reading that, seriously.

Let's toss this around with Keli Goff. She's a special correspondent for TheRoot.com, Emily Miller, a senior opinion editor at "The Washington Times."

Obviously, you may not find it funny. I do. There is so much irony in all of this. She doesn't think there could be a woman president, yet she ran for president.

Anyway, Keli, first of all, is there a chance that Michele Bachmann is taking a shot at Hillary Clinton here?

KELI GOFF, BLOGGER/POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is there a chance? I think there's more than a chance here.

(LAUGHTER)

GOFF: I also think this is more than a bit of sour grapes, Don, because as you pointed out, she ran, she lost, she lost badly. But she did lose because she was a woman. She lost because she ran a terrible campaign, because as you pointed out there was a lost enthusiasm when she kicked it off.

And her own undoing appears to have actually been Michele Bachmann, according to her former aides. This is a little silly to say that because she ran a terrible campaign, the country as a whole is not ready for a female president.

LEMON: Yes.

Emily, I will ask you the same question. Is this a shot at Hillary Clinton?

EMILY MILLER, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, if you read the full column, she is talking about Hillary Clinton. This was taken out of context.

And I just got off the phone with Bachmann's spokesman, and he reiterates that this entire sort of where this has gone in the media is out of context in the piece. If you read it, she says a lot of people say that -- a lot of people believe that women are not ready to be president. But she personally obviously believes that women are ready to be president.

She ran for president and she wouldn't have run for president. But what happened to her when she was running for president, she really -- there was a way double standard in the way she was treated vs. men. She was asked in the debate whether she was going to be submissive to her husband in the White House.

She was asked whether she is a flake. She was treated so differently than men candidates were treated. And so that is her experience and I think it's a very truthful experience.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Listen, I understand what you are saying. She is saying she thinks that women are ready to be president.

But I think that the point is, are the American people ready to elect a woman as president? She was responding to that as well. If you look at her comments, that was what the response was about.

MILLER: She said there are a lot of people in this country. She did not say the country was not ready. That's how it was taken out of context.

But I will just say directly what her spokesman just told me, is that she absolutely believes the country is ready for a female president, and she hopes the country is ready for a president, and she just doesn't want it to be Hillary Clinton. I agree 100 percent the country is ready for a female, just obviously not Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: How do you explain this? "I think there is a cachet about having an African-American president because of guilt. People don't hold guilt for a woman. I don't think there is a pent-up desire for a woman president."

How do you explain that, Emily? She is saying that people voted for Barack Obama because they were guilty.

MILLER: I think there is a lot of truth to that. I think there is still white guilt over...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And they were still guilty four years later?

MILLER: Absolutely, I think so.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Because he obviously didn't win on the merits of the economy.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Are you going to laugh, Don, or let me finish?

The economy is a disaster and it's the highest unemployment rate, even though it was jimmied in the end, that any president has been reelected. And he destroyed our health care system. What merits was he elected on? I think people want to give him a chance because he's black. And I think there's a lot of feelings because...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I think that's really underestimating the American people. That's insulting to Americans who are -- who have brains and voted.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Well, Don, what did he -- when he ran, he had been a half of a term of a Senate. So, what experience did he have when he ran? He ran on hope and change.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's besides the point. You are not answering the question.

But, go ahead, Keli.

That has nothing to do with -- about the American people.

MILLER: I'm happy to answer your question.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That has nothing to do with the American people being guilty. You're talking about him not having experience.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That is apples and oranges. So, they were guilty. So, here's what you are saying.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Let me finish. Hold on, Keli.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The American people -- you're saying -- when they're saying guilt, black people are not guilty.

You are saying white guilt. Let's just be honest, right? That's what she is saying, white guilt.

MILLER: Yes, that is what I'm saying.

LEMON: So, white people were guilty enough, felt guilty enough to vote for Barack Obama the first time.

And then you are saying, in your estimation, her estimation, he did a terrible job, and they were so guilty, then they again voted for him. They were stupid enough, if they actually felt that way, to vote for him again.

MILLER: I don't think it's stupid.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's insulting to Americans.

MILLER: No, it's insulting to the president, because I don't think he is qualified. I don't think he is a good president.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: I think Mitt Romney would have been a much better president.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: So, I am going to go ahead and jump in here...

LEMON: Go ahead, Keli. Go, Keli.

GOFF: ... and say, Emily, that, first of all, with all due respect, what you said is incredibly insulting and presumptuous, because I know plenty of people, whether I know them personally or people in my own family, who do think that he has done quite a bit, whether it was the Affordable Care Act, which you may disagree with, but is changing their lives, and a lot of other things, such as trying to make it easier for people who have student loan debt.

Things like that matter to certain people, they may not matter to you, but those are the reasons those people voted for him, not because he's a black guy. And I think that is incredibly insulting.

The other thing I have to say about her remarks and the parts that do not seem to have been taken out of context, which is that I'm really sick and tired of this whole suffering who has had it worse Olympics, you know, where a privileged white lady says that it's so much tougher for her than it's going to be for an African-American.

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: Try telling that to the parents of Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis. I don't think that they believe that it's so much easier for a black guy in this country than it is for a well-to-do white lady.

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: And I'm sick of the argument, because it's been going on for 100 years, Don, starting with the suffrage movement, where they said, who should have the vote first? Should it be white women or...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I get it.

GOFF: I'm just sick of this. It's stupid.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: All right, calm down.

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: Please don't tell me to calm down. It's not your show. It's Don's.

LEMON: All right, thank you. Fair point.

So, I understand. She thinks you are getting a little bit far off field here with the comparison, although I do understand the comparison.

But, Emily, I will give you the last word.

MILLER: And I point out to that that's why we continue to have so many race -- the fact that Trayvon Martin case had nothing to do with race, and yet it's become a race...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's disingenuous, because you are saying that white people were guilty. Oh, my God. It does not make sense. You are saying that he was elected because of white guilt, and then you're saying it has nothing to do with race. It does not make sense.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And I have got to go, only for time.

Thank you. Thank you, Keli. Thank you, Emily. I appreciate you joining us. All right. Thank you.

Next: Colorado's weed windfall. The state is making millions of dollars off marijuana. We are learning just how much and what the state will do with the cash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Honored at last with the nation's highest military honor. This is just into CNN. The White House has given the Medal of Honor to two dozen veterans. It's an incredible story.

And our Barbara Starr joins us from the Pentagon with more.

Tell us about these heroes who just officially got recognized, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Don, this is just a breathtaking moment of military history.

For several years, the Army in particular has been reviewing military records from World War II, Korea and Vietnam. Men of Hispanic, Jewish, African-American and other minorities and other American servicemen who may have suffered discrimination may have simply been overlooked for their valor and gallantry on the battlefield.

That review now done, the White House announcing that the president of the United States will award 24 Medals of Honor next month. This is the largest single group the end of World War II.

Of the 24 men, only three are still living. Those three are from Vietnam. And just for a moment, I want to tell you about Sergeant 1st Class Melvin Morris, who is living in Florida today. He was only 19 years old when he came a Green Beret. He volunteered for two tours in Vietnam.

There is a picture of him today. I want to you listen as a young man what the Army said he did on the battlefield. I want to quote. "He showed determination possessed by few men. His ability to lead has rarely been equaled."

Mr. Morris, the other two Hispanic gentlemen who are still living, all of these men, you receive the Medal of Honor in this country when you exhibit gallantry, courage, and heroism above and beyond the call of duty. All of these men put their lives on the line and many of them did not make it home. But they put themselves in front of enemy fire on the battlefield to save their buddies -- Don.

LEMON: I love that three of them are still living and will get the medal in person and they can enjoy it while they are alive. Thank you, Barbara Starr. Thank you very much.

STARR: Sure.

LEMON: All right.

A savvy Girl Scout decided to sell cookies right outside a medical marijuana store in San Francisco and she sold a lot of cookies fast, really fast.

CNN affiliate KPIX reports the 13-year-old named Danielle stand Monday outside the Green Cross dispensary. Her mom was there with her. A so much for the pot store talked about the cookies sales.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLLI BERT, GREEN CROSS: After 45 minutes, she had to call for reinforcement cookies, backups. Her mother was quoted saying that she sold about 117 boxes in two hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Of course the medical marijuana sells a brand of pot called mint cookies, granddaddy purple, island sweet skunk, super lemon haze.

Filling Colorado state coffers, marijuana sales are beating expectations on all levels, and that means big money for the state of Colorado. And we are talking tens of millions of dollars just in taxes.

Colorado expects to collect up to $184 million in tax revenue in the first 18 months of recreational pot sales. I don't know why that tickles me so much, but that little girl is really smart to do what she did.

I want to bring in now on our correspondent Ana Cabrera. She is in Denver.

You have talked to pot store owners and they describe marijuana as selling as a frenzy, right?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a frenzy. It is big business, big money here in Colorado. Don, and we are getting an even bigger picture of what these numbers are looking like, what it's all adding up to the state as well as to the small businesses that have opened in the medical marijuana industry.

Those dispensary owners we have been talking to tell us in the past six weeks, since the drug was legal to sell for recreational use, business has not slowed down. In some cases, it's almost too much business. One dispensary owner telling us she can only be open three days a week or about a third of the time because she doesn't have enough product to keep up with the demand.

Another dispensary owner tells us he was selling just the medical marijuana before and this was legal to sell for recreational use and now his business has quadrupled. He is seeing some 500 customers a day. Clearly, that 25 percent excise in sales tax that people are having to pay for the recreational marijuana, that is not keeping them away from buying the drug legally vs. going to the black market.

And industry supporters see businesses having success and the state is making money. They see this as a real win. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM CULLEN, EVERGREEN APOTHECARY: It's significant. They are generating a lot of revenue.

CABRERA: And I guess that's a good thing for the state and good for your business.

(CROSSTALK) CULLEN: Well, it's fantastic for the whole country. Colorado set this up in a way that legal cannabis can be implemented anywhere. I'm excited for other states to see the revenue that Colorado is generating for the opportunity for cannabis prohibition to end nationwide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, he talked about that big picture. And we do know there at least eight other states right now that are considering implementing recreational marijuana legislation.

You have to think, Don, that as they look at Colorado and what the state is planning to make on the tax revenues, that that has got them thinking even more hardly about this.

LEMON: Leads me to perfectly the next question here. I imagine, listen, a lot of states and municipalities and cities they have budget shortfalls.

What is the state of Colorado planning to do with all of that money now?

CABRERA: We are talking $184 million that the state didn't have before as part of the budget.

We do know $40 million of that will go to school construction projects. That was mandated by the voters when these laws were passed. The governor came out this week with a proposal on how he wants to spend some of the additional money that they believe they are going to be making, about $85 million he would like to see go to youth prevention programs and as well as substance abuse treatment, another $12.4 million he has set aside for public health, $3 million for law enforcement and public safety and about $2 million to add into the industry oversight they have going.

And, Don, that is just the beginning.

LEMON: Ana Cabrera, thank you very much.

We are getting an exclusive look inside the jury deliberations in the so-called loud music trial. Michael Dunn was accused of murdering an unarmed black teen. But a juror we talked to said race was not a factor in the deliberations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As we do it based on race, then he is not getting a fair trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But some say the jury should have considered race. We are "On the Case."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)