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Republican Senate Candidate Under Fire; Harold Ramis Dies

Aired February 24, 2014 - 15:00   ET


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Without a single shot being fired, the world's most notorious drug lord is behind bars, arrested. You see here. Federal prosecutors want to know when he will be brought to the United States. Here's the story. This was a daring early morning raid over the weekend.

Joaquin Guzman, known as El Chapo, or translated as Shorty, was captured in the Mexican Pacific resort town of Mazatlan inside his beachside condo. You can see some the photos taken during the raid. Clothes still left on the bed and food still left warm on the stove. The world's most wanted drug lord finally caught, and it was wiretaps and informants that finally helped close the deal.


JESUS MURILLO KARAM, MEXICAN ATTORNEY (through translator): There were several moments in which he could have been apprehended. But prudence and common sense prevented us from making the arrest in a place where citizens could be affected. We decided not to endanger the public and wait for the right time. That's precisely why with great efficiency and without a single shot fired the arrest was executed by the navy team.


BALDWIN: The hunt for El Chapo went on for 13 years after his escape from prison in a laundry cart, but his reputation really was the stuff of legends because through the years he somehow slipped through the cracks and avoided being caught because of his power and his money to bribe corrupt officials.

Ioan Grillo is joining me from New York. He's the author of "El Narco: Inside Mexico's Criminal Insurgency."

Ioan Grillo, thank you for being with me. Welcome.


BALDWIN: This was the world's most wanted man found shirtless and breakfast still on the stove. Didn't go out in a blaze of glory, I'm sure, as many people had anticipated. What do you make of that?

GRILLO: If you see the way the Mexican government has been dealing with drug traffickers in recent years, under Felipe Calderon, they would often go out in smoke, a bit like the movie "Scarface," where he was blowing away the assassins.

There were many scenes and they were taking down big drug traffickers and there were major firefights where civilians would get killed and children would get killed in the crossfire.

This government has been very careful about not injuring civilians and making it clear to the drug traffickers if they go with their hands up, they will not be shot dead. I think that was communicated.


BALDWIN: Forgive me for interrupting, but you think El Chapo was cognizant of, hey, I'm this really bad guy, but if I walk out with my hands up, it will all be OK? Do you think he was thinking that?

GRILLO: Yes, I think it's a by big part of his thing.


GRILLO: The reason is they arrested other significant drug traffickers in the last 12 months. In these cases, they took them down again without firing shots and so you're establishing a modus operandi, whereas before these people would lay out, be firing -- these guys, say, look, if you come up, we will not kill you. These guys realize at that moment they are going to die if shots are being fired.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this guy's influence here in the States, because he has been described as the chief executive of the world's most sophisticated enterprise, the Sinaloa cartel. What exactly is he responsible for so far as drugs in the U.S.?

GRILLO: Chapo Guzman is the biggest drug trafficker in the world.

And his organization moves cocaine, marijuana, heroin, and crystal meth to Americans and this is billions upon billions of dollars they have made. Every year they say the Americans spend about $60 billion buying these drugs and about half of that goes to Mexicans. He's the biggest trafficker.

As well as that, he has got his fingers all over the world in all kinds of countries, buying raw ingredients for crystal meth and buying cocaine and so forth. As far as Asia, Australia, Argentina and Columbia, you can see the tentacles of Sinaloa cartel.

BALDWIN: Ioan, given his influence and the tentacles worldwide, were you surprised that this guy was not hiding out in some hut in the Sinaloa mountains?

I know the authorities tried busting him last week at his ex-wife's house and he goes under the bathtub through the trapdoor to the tunnels and gets away. He was here on the fourth-floor apartment in Mazatlan. Were you surprised by T.?

GRILLO: What appears has happened is in recent years he has spent most of his time precisely in the mountains in these villages. I have been up these villages in the Sinaloa mountains and they are very hard for the military to go into.

As soon as the army goes close, they have a million spies there who are just alerting him to them arriving. He has got a lot of time in these rough ramshackle villages up in the mountains. But eventually it seems that he wanted to enjoy some of his wealth. It's frustrating being a billionaire, but not being able to enjoy your wealth because you're wanted.

He started going down to the luxury apartments and mansions down in the Sinaloa state capital, Culiacan, and in Mazatlan and it was when he started to do that, they started to follow him and exactly as you said, they went into this one house in Culiacan and he created this network of tunnels underneath so he could go into these houses and then go out from them.

They realized that and realized they were very close to him. He moved quickly to Mazatlan without time to really have a look at the security and they were on him very fast.

BALDWIN: Wow. It is like a movie hearing all these details. Kudos to the Mexican government, the navy and the military and of course the DEA and maybe a little luck. They got him. Ioan Grillo, thank you so much.

GRILLO: Thank you.


UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I bet you like to read a lot too.

HAROLD RAMIS, ACTOR: Print is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: That's very fascinating to me. I read a lot myself. Some people think I'm too intellectual, but I think it's a fabulous way to spend your spare time. I also play racquetball. Do you have any hobbies?

RAMIS: I collect spores, mold and fungus.


BALDWIN: Seen this movie maybe once, twice, maybe like 100 times, "Ghostbusters." Comedy legend Harold Ramis has died, starring in hits like the one you see here.

He was also quite successful behind the camera directing comedy classics like "Caddyshack" and more recently "Year One" starring Jack Black. Ramis died in his Chicago home early in morning surrounded by family. He died we're told from complications of a rare disease he battled for four years, autoimmune inflammatory vasculitis. It's a condition that involves swelling of the blood vessels.

The nation is watching what Arizona's governor will do this week about Senate Bill 1062. Supporters say the law makes sure that people are allowed to practice their faith, but critics say it allows Arizonans to act on their biases. And 1062 expands an existing law about "free exercise of religion."

So, not just people, but "any association, partnership, cooperation or institution" can deny services based upon religious beliefs. Today, the governor of Arizona, Jan Brewer, said she won't decide if she will approve the measure until she heads back home to Arizona.

She is in Washington, D.C., at this governors meeting, but members of Governor Brewer's own party are actually asking she stop it. Three Arizona Republicans who voted to pass it wrote this letter to Brewer calling for her to veto 1062.


BOB WORSLEY (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATE: It came quickly. We all left uncomfortable and we feel very badly that the state reputation has been tarnished by our vote, and that's why we are asking the governor to veto this.

STEVE PIERCE (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATE: It's not good for the state, especially if you look around and see the negative publicity from all over the world. As Bob said, it's been bad.


BALDWIN: With me now, two guests, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and Kellie Fiedorek. She's a lawyer for the Alliance Defending Freedom which was involved in drafting the bill.

Welcome to both of you.

KELLIE FIEDOREK, ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM: Thanks so much, Brooke, for having us on.

BALDWIN: Sure. Thanks to you and Jeff.

Kellie, let me just begin with you. I have the bill and I read the different pieces of it. But let me ask you just for people who don't know about it, what is 1062 advocating?

FIEDOREK: Well, first, Brooke, I just want to take a step back and thank you for having me on this interview.

My appearance earlier today has been so vastly misconstrued in social media, as has much of the debate. I hopeful we can clarify some of those lies and misconstructions right here.

This bill is simply about protecting freedom. It's protecting people. The government should never be in a position to be able to tell come in and tell us what we can and can't say and then to punish us for our beliefs. This bill simply protects people in Arizona from government coercion of speech.


Jeff Toobin, I want you to explain what this bill is advocating.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's actually a very similar argument that was raised against the civil rights laws of the mid-'60s.

There were people who said that our religion believes in separation of the races, so we want to keep black people out of our restaurants, out of our hotels.

And that's essentially the same that the supporters of this law are making, is that our religion believes that gay people are lesser or different beings than other people.

And the question is, does the government want to endorse that kind of thinking, that individual rights trump a universal idea of nondiscrimination? That's the question really for Arizona now.

BALDWIN: Kellie, I see you shaking your read, but I have read the criticism. Tell me how this is not discrimination.

FIEDOREK: Brooke, that could be -- what Jeffrey just said could be -- nothing could be further from the truth. This bill will do no such thing.

This bill is consistent with law and no one is being turned away. I know of no religion that turns people away from their restaurants. This bill, there is a big difference between giving someone coffee, serving someone a pizza or a burger and coercing someone to violate their sincerely held beliefs.


BALDWIN: But that is open, Kellie, to interpretation of the business owner.


BALDWIN: My show. Hang on. That is open to the interpretation of the business owner, is it not? Because to use the example that I know that you have been involved in that we keep using, let's say a same- sex couple walks into this photography studio, wants a photographer to take a picture for that same-sex wedding and the photographer says, yes, I will take your picture for the passport, yes, I will take your picture a driver's license, but, no, I'm not going to take your picture for the same-sex wedding because that is against my religious beliefs.

I hear you saying the protection of religious beliefs, but how is that not discrimination? Just asking.

FIEDOREK: It's not discrimination.

There is a big difference between taking a picture and forcing -- for the government forcing someone, a citizen to violate their sincerely held beliefs by participating and using their creative expression to photograph a wedding. We would never ask a homosexual -- we would defend a homosexual's right not to photograph an event with the Westboro Baptist's hateful stance. We would never want them to have to be involved with that.


BALDWIN: Let's not even bring the Westboro Baptist Church up into this, because I don't even want to go there.


FIEDOREK: Brooke, would you allow, would you make --


BALDWIN: I ask the questions. I ask the questions. You answer the questions.


FIEDOREK: We would support the Muslim who wouldn't want to buy pork sandwiches on a Saturday, because that would violate his beliefs.


BALDWIN: I understand. You're giving other examples.

FIEDOREK: We defend everyone.

BALDWIN: I understand. Just hang on a second, because Jeff Toobin is my -- he is my go-to legal guy.

Jeff Toobin, under the law, given the example that I gave, if I want to get married to another woman, I walk into a photography studio, where does the law stand right now as far as same-sex marriage and an individual and a business saying no?

TOOBIN: Well, I think it varies by state.


BALDWIN: But Arizona specifically.

TOOBIN: At this point, I think they largely do have the right to turn down people, because there is no law in Arizona that says you can't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

That's different in some other states, but this is about the law making sure that people have the right to draw distinctions, to discriminate among their customers based on who is gay and who is straight. That's what this law is all about.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Kellie.

FIEDOREK: That's just not true. What this bill does, it is a balancing test. It basically says that the government cannot come in and force you to speak or to believe something that is contrary to what you believe. It's not a license for discrimination. That's the beauty of the legal system that we live in, is that not that any action can be therefore justified because of your religious beliefs.

That's why we have a constitutional system of government to prevent that. This bill has nothing to do with discrimination. It's basically -- it's protecting basic freedoms that belong to everyone. And I don't understand how you could argue anything else. This has nothing to do with discrimination.


FIEDOREK: In fact, no, what does have to do with discrimination, anyone who is against this bill is supportive of discrimination by the government for people of faith. And that is wrong in our country.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Toobin.

TOOBIN: This law says nothing about -- you can believe anything you want. This says nothing about what you actually -- the Constitution allows you to believe whatever you want.

But we have certain rules about commerce, that you can believe anything you want, but you can't turn away black people from your store, and you can't turn away gay people from your store, unless this law becomes effective.


FIEDOREK: It's not turning about gay people.


BALDWIN: Let me jump in, because I have 1062. I have a copy of it.

And 1062, specifically number two here, exercise of religion means the practice or observance of religion, including the ability to action or refusal to act.

To me, refusal to act, how is that not discrimination? I just go back to that point.

Let me end with this, Kellie. Let me end with this. With everything potentially changing and evolving and more accepting more states of same-sex marriage, isn't this in a sense a timing of a way for Arizona to go ahead and get this on the books before the federal government may say something that you may not agree with?

FIEDOREK: This law is simply bringing Arizona law to be consistent with federal law and to ensure that the basic freedoms belong to everyone and that no one is forced to use their creative abilities, their art, whatever their business is. In America, we should all be free to live our lives in accordance with our beliefs without government coercion.

BALDWIN: OK. I just wanted to hear both sides. I really appreciate both of you coming on. Both of you, Kellie Fiedorek and Jeff Toobin, thank you.

FIEDOREK: Thank you, Brooke.

TOOBIN: Bye, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up, the iconic got milk campaign is coming to an end. What will the new slogan be? We will tell you.

Also ahead, a college student at Duke University turning to porn to pay for her tuition bills. Her decision catching a lot of criticism, but would the action be the same if she were a man? We will discuss next here on CNN.


BALDWIN: You know this. All kinds of people go to college and at Duke University that student body currently includes a porn star.

During the day, this freshman attends classes and in her free time, she takes on an alias and does pornography. Well, it was all going fine for her until she was recognized on campus. And then flash- forward to being inundated with Facebook friend requests from random male students.

She talks to the Duke newspaper "The Duke Chronicle." She wasn't happy with how they told her story, so she penned an op-ed to xoJane. Let me read part of what she told them.

"For me, shooting pornography brings me unimaginable joy. When I finish a scene, I know that I have done so and completed an honest day's work. It is my artistic outlet: my love, my happiness, my home. I can say definitively that I have never felt more empowered or happy doing anything else. In a world where women are so often robbed of their choice, I am completely in control of my sexuality. It is wonderful. It is how the world should be."

Listen, I could get a lot of people on the show who rip that to shreds.

But we wanted to talk to a woman who said good for her.

And Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist, joins me now with a little bit of that perspective.

Michelle, you told my producer you called her brave, brilliant and a bad bleep. Why?

MICHELLE GOLLAND, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I did, because I think what is so important, Brooke, is that in our society right now, there is so much slut shaming going on and so much fear around any woman owning her sexuality. I am a relationship expert and I try to keep marriages together. I try to get people to have more sex. Right? And I think that in the erotic industry, there a lot of women that I have met and men who do that as a job and are not on drugs, are very confident and capable and could do a lot of other work. But they choose to do this.

And I think that it's really important that we take note that it is not as bad as what people are putting out.

BALDWIN: I'm always aware of the thought bubbles of viewers watching a segment and I can just hear them rapid fire like if you were to watch a porn and the things that are done to women, how is that empowering?

Here's the thing, though. Let me say, I have read this op-ed twice. In parts, I'm with her until I got to the parent part, until she said, here I am, empowered woman, but I lie to my parents. I tell them I have extra exams at Duke and then I hope over on my break to L.A. and shoot pornography.

I am just -- I'm wondering if I had her in front of me how empowered she feels when she is lying to her parents and still remains anonymous.


Well, I think that it's also about her being in fear of being viewed exactly the way she has been by all the slut shaming that has been going on. I think she said a lot of really smart things in her article --


BALDWIN: She's a great writer. I will give her that.

GOLLAND: Oh, yes.

And I think that, again, what we are talking about is female sexuality. And I talk about it all the time. We get comments about, oh, Rihanna shouldn't do this and Britney Spears and Madonna kissing and all that sort of stuff. And it's like the reality is, is that we get to be in control of our sexual lives. And that makes men and women, I think, uncomfortable.

BALDWIN: That's interesting. And she does. She points out not all women in porn are empowered like her. She said we need to -- we being her -- need to help those women.

But here's the other reality. Let's just be real about this. If this was a guy, some freshman at Duke who was a dude comes out as a porn star, can you imagine all the slapping on the backs and the attaboys that that guy would get? And it is totally opposite for this young woman.


GOLLAND: Absolutely.

And again I think the pornography industry is a changing industry. If anybody were to Google Jacky St. James, she is a female director in the adult world and her company is New Sensations, which does female- centered adult films that, I'm telling you -- I have been married 20 years.

And we are only having sex with each other. And I think that there's lots of people who use adult film to enliven their sexual lives.

BALDWIN: Each to his own. Not trying to get into anyone's sex lives.

GOLLAND: I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to say that.

BALDWIN: But just thought it was interesting, this young woman's perspective. I'm also curious to see if eventually with all of the press now this article is getting if she will eventually come forward.

Michelle Golland, thank you very much for the candid conversation.

GOLLAND: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: A Republican Senate candidate in Kansas is apologizing for posting these gruesome X-rays on the Internet and poking fun of patients, some of whom were dead.

The pictures were posted Dr. Milton Wolf's Facebook page and one such picture showed a decapitated person because this person was shot. Wolf called that one -- quote -- "one of my all-time favorites." Wolf blamed a political opponent for bringing these photos to light. He is running against current Senator Pat Roberts in the Republican primary.

Before this, Wolf was best known as a distant cousin of President Barack Obama and a vocal opponent of Obamacare.

Coming up here on CNN: Facebook's new $19 billion purchase, WhatsApp, remember we talked about this last week? Huge announcement today, another one. How will this little app make some changes in the way you talk to your friends? We will share that with you ahead.

Also, Netflix, anyone, paying cable giant Comcast to make streaming its movies and TV shows faster. What does that really mean for your bill? That's next.


BALDWIN: An ad agency is pulling the plug on one of its most famous campaigns of all time. Remember this? Ah, the famous got milk ads going bye-bye.

The dairy is looking for a new way to hook customers, and that means no more milk mustaches? What? Instead, the new ads will urge consumers to live the milk life. That's a new slogan, milk ad. The new ad rolls out tomorrow.

And a new deal should make your TV binge-viewing easier. Have you noticed a difference when you watch Netflix? The video streaming service has cut a deal with Comcast about all the bandwidth Netflix users take up.


ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is happening because all those worries about problems in emerging markets are subsiding.

And even though we have gotten some weak economic reports lately, the common belief is it's the weather's fault, it's temporary. So, you're seeing the bulls comes out to play today in a big way, with the S&P 500 hitting a record high -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Look at the, up 130 points, half-an-hour to go of the trading day.

Alison Kosik, thank you.