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NEW DAY

Interim Government Being Formed in Ukraine; Anti-Government Protests Continue in Venezuela; New Study Suggest Surgery to Remove Ovaries to Prevent Breast and Ovarian Cancer; Seth Meyers Debuts on Late Night; Talking Stock Markets

Aired February 25, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back to NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, February 25th, 7:00 in the East now. And we're going to start with our news blast. That's the most news that you can get anywhere. You ready? Of course, you are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This country is divided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is about the Ukrainian people and their future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her left arm suddenly stopped moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The prognosis that we've seen, so far, is not good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have been persecuted religiously.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're all human beings, we deserve the same rights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For anyone to claim that I am a racist is typical crap. They don't deserve respect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are no longer sizing the military to conduct long and large stability operations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It really is a slap in the face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Breaking news, listen up. Pakistan launching fighter jets and helicopter gunships to hit militant hideouts near the Afghanistan border. Their target, a tribal region home to terror groups is their target. Pakistani officials say the strikes killed at least 30 people. Peace between Pakistan and the Taliban broke down last week after the Taliban reportedly killed nearly two dozen Pakistani soldiers they captured.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The United States may have to wait to get its hands on Mexican drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. Today a judge in Mexico is expected to start the process of bringing "El Chapo" to trial. Right now Guzman is being held in a maximum security facility outside Mexican City facing drug trafficking charges.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning, a South Korean flagged fishing vessel is stranded in Antarctica waters. And 90 people are said to be aboard the vessel. The Chilean navy has activated a maritime search and rescue operation. Everyone on board is said to be OK.

CUOMO: Want to change the tax code? Listen up. A proposal for Republicans would bring a major overhaul to the tax code. "The Washington Post" reports it would establish two brackets, a lower rate at 10 percent, higher rate at 25 percent. That would be down from the max rate of 40. People with even higher salaries would be subject to a surtax on certain types of income. But now the rub, support for the plan soft even among Republicans who want to support. They say it took two years to write the plan, and because of that, priorities have changed.

BOLDUAN: Attorney General Eric Holder will meet with his state counterparts today in Washington after taking the unusual step of saying they are not required to defend laws they find discriminatory. Six state attorneys general, all Democrats, have refused to defend bans on same-sex marriage, a move that has drawn sharp criticism from Republicans. Holder has called gay rights one of the defining civil rights challenges of our time.

PEREIRA: A growing backlash to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's proposal to shrink the size of the army to pre-World War II levels. Senator Lindsey Graham among those calling it a bad idea, as does South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, who said cutting National Guard reserves is a slap in the face. Hagel is set to tour Army and Air Force posts in Virginia today.

CUOMO: Colder weather is coming back and in a big way. Millions in the northeast, even the south will face a bitterly cold week. Midwest already feeling the arctic air. Readings up north could feel like 30 below zero. More snow could make a cold week a slippery one in some areas. I can't believe it's almost March, Indra Petersons, and you are still doing this to us.

INDRA PETERESONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it's all my fault, right? We're definitely talking about this cold arctic air. You can see where the cold air is again, upper Midwest. Each day, it's expected to get progressively worse through the middle of the week. We're talking about wind-chill temperatures that are going to feel like they're in the single digits if not below zero.

Look at this, Indianapolis right feels like six degrees. Chicago as your waking up, it feels like almost 10 below. Your highs, they are not going to be feeling any better. They were talking about departures from average, 20, even 30 degrees below where they should be. Chicago, your high below freezing at 20. Even New York City, we're talking about just the 30s. By tomorrow, spreading all the way down even to the south where temperatures could be as low as 30 degrees below average for this time of year. Unfortunately, there's also a little snow out there in the Ohio Valley and into the northeast today, Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, thanks so much. Former Florida governor Jeb Bush says his famous last name could be a problem if he runs for president. Bush met Monday with business leader on Long Island and he told them he thinks Hillary Clinton is facing the very same challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I get the point. If I was to run, I'd have to overcome that. And so will Hillary, by the way. We keep the same standards for everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Former first lady Barbara Bush says she doesn't want Jeb to run. She says there have been too many Bushes and Clintons in the White House and that it's time for another family to set up.

BOLDUAN: Happening today, first lady Michelle Obama set to unveil a new proposal to ban marketing of junk food and sodas in schools. Schools would no longer be allowed to house vending machines that have images of sodas or posters promoting unhealthy food.

PEREIRA: A new honor for the three Cleveland women who were kidnapped and held captive for over a decade. Michelle Knight, Gina Dejesus, and Amanda Berry were all on hand to receive the annual Courage Award from Ohio's governor John Kasich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO: Three extraordinary women who despite having the worst of the world rose above it.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: You recall the women were rescued in May of last year after being held captive in the home of Ariel Castro. He pled guilty to hundreds of charges and later killed himself in prison.

CUOMO: Well-deserved.

It is a pivotal day for Ukraine as it forges a new political path. The interim president is expected to appoint a unity government Thursday ahead of national elections in May. We're going to cover every angle of this story beginning with senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh in Kiev.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At this point, parliament has just stopped its session. It's been passing a large number of votes today, trying to get the government together. But they're not going to vote on the prime minister today. That could be tomorrow or Thursday. A huge question for this country, who will lead it through this crisis? They need billions of dollars right now to keep the economy afloat after the devastation that wrecked the square behind me in the past week. U.S. and European officials coming here with message of support today to talk to the opposition leaders who rapidly formed this government. But the question is, where does this money come from? Moscow, who was going to give, now give very negative rhetoric about this news government, about where the country's headed.

BOLDUAN: Nick, thanks so much. Keeping our focus on the Ukraine, for Russia and President Vladimir Putin, stakes in the Ukraine are high both politically and economically. Last year Putin promised cheap gas and billions in aid to Ukraine to try to convince it turn down a European Union trade deal. Now that Yanukovych is out, what's next? Could Putin intervene, even militarily? Senior international correspondent Ivan Watson is in Moscow for us with that angle of the story. What are you hearing, Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, the big question is what is Ukraine's big brother Slavic brother Russia going to do right now? Its policy vis-a-vis Ukraine is effectively in tatters. Just last week Russia was pledging billions of dollars in financial aid to President Yanukovych, but that man has now fled. Now the protestors that the Kremlin repeatedly referred to as terrorists and fascists, they're the ones who are currently in charge.

So far, Moscow has withdrawn its ambassador from Kiev. It's also announced that it's going to suspend, at least for the time being, some of that money and aid and that was supposed to go to the Ukrainian government, trying to figure out what the interim authorities are going to do in the future.

In the meantime, some of the rhetoric has been pretty harsh. The Russian prime minister saying we don't have anybody to negotiate with in Kiev. We don't talk to armed groups and armed bands. The Russian foreign ministry calling for a policy of nonintervention in the Ukraine. Russia can make trouble for the Ukraine. In years past, it cut off crucial fuel supplies, leaving that country cold. And there is a significant and restive ethnic Russian community in the Ukraine. Some of those Russians have been calling for separation for the Ukraine. We're going to have to watch the Kremlin very closely in the days and weeks ahead.

PEREIRA: Ivan, thank you for that.

Now to Venezuela, where it looks like things are going to get worse before it gets better. The government and opposition leaders are at odds over how to stem the violence that's occurring there and satisfy protestors. Now a peace conference on the agenda is in doubt. And at least one ally in Nicolas Maduro's government is denouncing him. Carl Penhall is in Caracas with the latest on all of this conflict and the lack of resolution. Carl?

CARL PENHALL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, opposition leaders are making it clear that they feel they have nothing to discuss in those peace talks being offered by the socialist president Nicolas Maduro. They want the government to quit over its failure to crack down on spiraling crime and to rescue a tanking economy.

There are fault-lines appearing. A pro regime state governor who is close to the late Hugo Chavez is now rebelling. He's calling the president's response to the protests excessive. Down on the streets meanwhile the government continues to organize almost daily rallies by its loyalists, and the opposition supporters have thrown up barricades. The scene does seem to be set for more confrontation. Back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: Carl, thank you for that.

A 65 mile stretch of the Mississippi is back open this morning after being closed for two days because of an oil spill. More than 31,000 gallons of light crude oil spilled after a barge collided with a towboat on Saturday. The company responsible for the barge is cleaning this spill.

BOLDUAN: Another round of arrests is on the way in an alleged scam by New York City emergency workers accused of bilking the city out of disability pay. Get this, CNN's learned as many as 30 names will be released on top of the 100 retired police and firefighters indicted last month. They were accused of collecting Social Security when they weren't fully disabled and were allegedly coached on how to act sick.

CUOMO: And in case you're planning a family vacation to Disneyworld, you're going to have to save up a little more to feel the magic. Disney's Magic Kingdom has hiked prices for the second time in less than a year. Single day admission, $99 bucks for adults and children 10 and older. Meanwhile, as the company sets itself up to make more, workers there are rallying to get a bigger piece of that pie in the way of better benefits and hopefully higher pay.

PEREIRA: Let's check what is in the paper right now with a look at the "Wall Street Journal." More than 80 public companies telling investors the new health care law affects their bottom lines for better or worse. In general media and advertising companies as well as staffing firms are talking gains while many large employers across industries say they're spending more on insurance benefits. Insurance providers say they anticipate future gains.

In the "Denver Post" Colorado stepping up state trooper training in order to spot drivers who are driving high. They say they cited 60 people last month for driving offices where pot was believed to be involved. Stoned driving citations made up 15 percent of impaired driving citations in January.

And in "The L.A. Times," Los Angeles the latest city that launched a crackdown on e-cigarettes. A city council panel has endorsed a number of new restrictions, including a ban on using these vapor devices in most work places and many other shared public places. The proposal goes to the full council for a vote next week.

CUOMO: New fears about acetaminophen. You know it as the active ingredient in Tylenol. A new study suggests a strong link between prenatal use and cases of childhood ADHD. Basically the study shows increased risks for kids whose mothers took the drug. Here's the other side of the argument. Many doctors say fevers could pose an even greater risk to the fetus, and would therefore still recommend the drug to control those.

BOLDUAN: A new study suggests women with a certain genetic mutation carrying the risk of breast and ovarian cancer can reduce their risk of cancer and death if they have their ovaries removed by the age of 35. The study coming from researchers at the University of Toronto show that the risk is reduced by some 80 percent. Let's talk more about this and what this means for you and what you need to pay attention to with CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, the numbers are pretty astonishing. I know a lot of people are paying attention to this. We're talking about the gene mutation that's been in the news, in the headlines quite a bit. But why are doctors recommending this move, because it is still a pretty drastic move? You're talking about a major surgery.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No question about it. It's a drastic move. And all of this is in the spirit of prevention. So this idea that you find these genes that may put you at risk of developing cancers. And then women and their doctors with the council are trying to make some pretty tough decisions.

But we've known for some time that this breast cancer gene not only increases your risk of breast cancer, but also ovarian cancer. What is different here is we have some numbers to put behind it and actually show how those number change as people get older.

Take a look first of all overall at the risk of ovarian cancer specifically when you're talking about breast cancer genes. It can increase your risk of ovarian cancer if you have the breast cancer one gene by about 40 percent, and increase your risk by about 20 percent if you have the breast cancer two gene.

But let me show you here what's gaining the attention this time, Kate, and that has to do with the ages specifically. If you look under the age of 40, with that breast cancer one mutation, about 1.5 percent increased risk of ovarian cancer. But look how it goes up. At 40 you see a pretty significant jump there, and obviously higher at 50.

Here's the thing, Kate. If you are going to decide that you're going to use this information to try and prevent cancer, doctors say in order to get the maximum benefit out of that, you have to really think about having the ovaries removed before the age of 35, because the risk just starts to go up and you start to lose the preventive benefit. It's going to be pretty significant in terms of conversations between women and their doctors. Now we're talking about possibly prophylactic mastectomies and also ovarian removals.

BOLDUAN: It's going to change maybe the conversation that women have with their doctors, but do you think this is going to go even further and really change the practice, change how we even look at cancer and try to fight cancer?

GUPTA: I do. You know, I talked to a couple colleagues in the world of oncology and cancer last night even about this. I think so, you know, look, the movement if you look and sort of follow the trajectory of medicine over the last decade, couple of decades, it's all towards trying to find more information early and then acting upon that information. If you don't want to act upon that information, you probably shouldn't have the tests in the first place.

It's counter-balanced, Kate, as you might guess, by the fact that women are having babies later than ever. So if you're waiting until after 35, you obviously don't want to have your ovaries removed before age 35. So there's going to be a couple of conversations. How does it not only affect the decision about having the operation, but also family planning in general. What does this mean for my future if I have this genetic test done while I'm in my 20s, it's going to maybe plan a path going forward for the next decade or so.

BOLDUAN: I think you make a really important connection there. Women are having babies later, and that conversation is very important when you're talking about these gene mutations and what to do about it if you have these gene mutations. Thirty-five is the important age here to think about.

GUPTA: That's the number.

BOLDUAN: And of course, you got to talk to your doctor about it because there are a lot of decisions that go along with this.

Sanjay, it's great to see you. Thank you so much. We'll see you in the next hour.

GUPTA: You got it, Kate. Good morning. Thanks.

PEREIRA: All right. Let's take a look at what is trending.

A twitter handle exposing supposed boorish behavior of Goldman Sachs employees. Guess what? It was a fake. An internal Goldman pro found it was a Texas man named John Lefevre who has never even worked for the Wall Street firm. He told the "New York Times" he started the handle as a way to entertain himself. Lefevre says that he's surprised that it took almost three year to find him.

Nischelle, what do you have?

TURNER: Well, former president George W. Bush turned painter will get his first gallery showing in April. The Bush presidential library and museum will open and exhibit, showcasing the former president's artwork. The exhibit will focus on foreign policy and Bush's relationship with world leaders. The highlight of the show will be two dozen portraits painted by Bush which have never been seen publicly.

PEREIRA: Well, there's no stopping the man known as the Jeopardy villain. Arthur Chu came out on top again on Monday's edition of the game show, pushing his five-day total to $123,600. Jeopardy purists may not like his unorthodox style, but it certainly has worked. Even if Chu loses on tonight's show, this won't be the end. As a five-time winner, he actually qualifies for the tournament of champions.

TURNER: He just keeps winning. I don't know what else to say.

Seth Meyers has officially landed in late night. The guests on his first show, former SNL castmate Amy Poehler and Vice President Joe Biden who was asked about his 2016 plans.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, you know, I was planning on making a major announcement tonight, but I decided tonight's you're night.

(LAUGHTER)

SETH MEYERS, TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

BIDEN: So -- so I hope you'll invite me back.

MEYERS: Yes, absolutely.

And Amy, your 2016 plans?

AMY POEHLER, COMEDIAN: Oh, I'm gonna run for president.

MEYERS: OK, great.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOCLIP)

TURNER: Yeah, Meyers has a star-studded lineup for the rest of the week, including rapper Kanye West and actress Lena Dunham.

BOLDUAN: That's a very fun comedic duo, Amy Poehler and Joe Biden.

TURNER: They're the best.

BOLDUAN: I would love to hear that conversation in the green room.

TURNER: The vice president had good comedic timing last night.

CUOMO: He's funny.

BOLDUAN: Even when he doesn't mean to be.

CUOMO: See, I think he always means -- I think he always knows what he's saying and how it may be taken or not taken. And I think it's his choice.

PEREIRA: He does have a twinkle in his eye. That is true.

BOLDUAN: Well, he's been in politics a long time. He knows exactly what he's doing. As you said, he kind of doesn't care.

TURNER: He doesn't take himself too seriously.

BOLDUAN: All right, so Hollywood we know this morning is mourning for a man who gave us all so many laughs. And when I looked back, I was astonished at the list of films we're talking about here. Funeral arrangements are underway for Harold Ramis, the star of "Ghostbusters" and the director of "Groundhog Day."

He died Monday after a battle with a long illness. Ramis was just shy of 70 years old. His legacy, a long list of some of the most influential and hilarious comedies in the last 40 years.

Nischelle, of course, is here to take a look at some of these.

TURNER: Yeah, you know in the world of comedic movies, his filmography is really unmatched. Hollywood did lose a comedy legend on Monday. We're talking about Harold Ramis.

But he leaves behind laughs that will endure for generations to come.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HAROLD RAMIS, ACTOR AND DIRECTOR: I have a radical idea.

TURNER (voice-over): Harold Ramis is perhaps best known for his role as the endearingly kooky Dr. Spengler. of the 1984 cult classic movie "Ghost Busters."

A celebrated actor, writer, director, and all around funny guy, he was the brains behind such seminal comedy classics as "Animal House."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys up for a toga party?

JOHN BELUSHI, ACTOR: Toga! Toga!

TURNER: His directorial debut, "Caddyshack" and the brilliant smash hit "Groundhog Day," which he co-wrote and directed.

Ramis got his start at the Second City comedy troop in his hometown of Chicago where he emerged as a visionary comedic writer, first with the Canadian produced SCTV and later in movies like "Stripes" and "National Lampoon's Vacation," and "Analyze This."

BILLY CRYSTAL, ACTOR: Just hit the pillow. See how you feel.

Feel better?

TURNER: And while the Hollywood heavyweight leaves behind a formidable body of box office hits --

RAMIS (singing): Somebody told me that her name was Jill.

TURNER: -- it is his legacy as an all-around mensch who helped reshape the landscape of comedy that will always be remembered.

RAMIS: I feel so good!

TURNER: Ramis died Monday from complications related to an auto immune disease, a condition he battled for years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TURNER (on-camera): And Bill Murray told us yesterday simply, "Harold Ramis earned his keep on this planet. God bless him."

PEREIRA: How beautiful.

TURNER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: So funny. So many good films. I think we all need to watch "Stripes" and "Groundhog Day" this weekend.

TURNER: I heard you earlier saying you kind of went through the filmography yesterday thinking what your favorite was. "Analyze This," it snuck up on me. And it was just so great.

BOLDUAN: There are so many good ones. Thanks, Nischelle, for that look back.

Let's take another break.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, Democrats calling on the explainer in chief for a little help. They're sending Bill Clinton to Kentucky. Is the former president trying to finish off the Senate's most powerful Republican who's stuck in a heated primary campaign?

CUOMO: And after a bumpy start to the new year, the bulls are back. Stocks are rebounding. So is there a play in here for you? Is the economy finally really coming back? We're going to talk with "Shark Tank's" Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O'Leary. There he is. He looks wonderful. Or should I say marvelous?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll make you a hundred thousand dollar offer for 40 percent.

KEVIN O'LEARY, FINANCTIAL EXPERT: You thief. You really do come in on a broom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Problem after problem.

O'LEARY: One of the biggest problems, you gotta listen to this every day.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BOLDUAN: You just saw Kevin O'Leary, the judge on ABC's "Shark Tank" doing what he does best, helping small businesses' dreams come true one biting opinion at a time. And he's here to do the same for us this morning.

The bull market is looking like it's now erasing dramatic losses from the month of January with the S&P finishing Monday just short of a record close. But what does that mean for you? What does that mean for your 401(k)?

Kevin O'Leary, the author of, "Cold Hard Truth on Men, Women and Money." He's here to answer all of our questions.

Help us, help up us, oh wise one. First of all, before we get there --

O'LEARY: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- where did you get Mr. Wonderful? Why does everyone call you Mr. Wonderful on that show?

O'LEARY: Because I'm the only shark that tells the truth, and that's wonderful.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: And that is coming from an unbiased opinion.

O'LEARY: Absolutely.

CUOMO: And the originator of the name.

BOLDUAN: Right, exactly. "It came from me. I made it up myself."

O'LEARY: The way I look at it, I never have to remember what I said because I just tell the truth all the time. That's it.

BOLDUAN: So talk to us. What do you make of the roller coaster that looks like the markets these days? They're up, they're down. People are -- I'm afraid to look at my 401(k) on a given day. Where do you see the strength in the economy, the weakness in the economy and how it's relating to the market?

O'LEARY: The stock market is driven by fear and greed. And what's different about these days, it's global. So every day we hear a story about a tragedy in Ukraine, for example, or problems in Turkey. And because the world's all interlinked, including our company selling products there, as there's volatility in thinking, so there's volatility in the market.

But you shouldn't care about that. Because at the end of the day long term, the only thing that matters are the earnings of our American companies, S&P 500. And on that front, record earnings last year, record earnings the year before, and it looks like record earnings this year. Our companies are doing a much better job than our government is doing right now.

BOLDUAN: And -- go ahead.

CUOMO: That's an interesting point. So we've been hearing a lot from government about income inequality and how they're going to fix it for worker and what each side believes. When you hear the politicians talking, keep partisanship out of it if you can, what is the big lie to you that's being told to the American people? O'LEARY: I think in the last few years because of the volatility in the stock market and the concerns people have had about money, is that we vilified what makes America great in the first place.

People came to this country hundreds of years ago to be free and pursue economic freedom. Let's never forget that. We should be celebrating the 1 percent. They're the ones that were successful creating goods and services for us that benefit us every day. And let's not forget they pay all the taxes that make this country so great.

PEREIRA: So to that end, though, when you say that, you know, the 99 percent are going to cry foul and say, "Look, that -- you're talking against me. What about my dream? What about my reality?" We talk a lot on this air about the great divide between the haves and the have nots. How can we bridge that gap and keep the dreams of the 99 percent alive?

O'LEARY: You have to look at it this way, the numbers don't support this emotional and populist view people have. If you go back 30 years ago, about 42 percent of the world, including us here in America, lived in utter poverty. Today it's 17 percent. Thank you, capitalism. Because that's what made that change.

You know, if you think back to the 1900s, 70 percent of the world was illiterate. Today, it's 20 percent. Thank you, capitalism. So let's celebrate what's working.

And in America, we've got 24 million small businesses. That's what we celebrate on "Shark Tank." Every one of those people is trying to create a new job today. And every time we think about making it harder for them to do that, we hurt America.

So, I don't want to debate the politics of the new health care law, but it now is a wind in the front of small business. It costs them more to provide their services. Talking about raising the minimum wage, that's insane. That's not going to create new jobs for anybody.

CUOMO: What does it mean when the minimum wage keeps you below the poverty line?

O'LEARY: Here's the problem: in the end, let's not forget this, all of the wealth in America and all the things we benefit from come from people that pay taxes, not from the government. Everything we do, the best way to think about it is to leave politics out of it and ask yourself, "If we implement a policy, does that help create a new job in America or not?" Because that's all that matters.

BOLDUAN: Well, one thing we're also seeing, Kevin, is that businesses are bouncing back. We're seeing businesses, large and small businesses, they're bouncing back. Their revenue stream is looking good.

But we're not seeing that when we see the monthly jobs report. We're not seeing that come with jobs created. How do you -- you can't make them -- but how do you get big business to make big job investment? How do you get them to create jobs? There's the disconnect that I'm confused about.

O'LEARY: And you've raised an excellent point. The truth is, big business, the S&P 500 that we think of as the stock market, they have done a phenomenal job in creating earnings.

But in doing so, they've moved most of the new jobs offshore. You talk about a company like Apple, which is a huge success, has maybe 10,000 jobs in America and 2 million overseas.

What we've done in America is we've made our jobs so expensive that companies have done the right thing for themselves and they've moved their jobs offshore.

What we should be focusing on now is not the big companies anymore. If you want to create jobs in America, we need to focus on the 23 million small businesses that traditionally do 50 percent of the sales in this country.