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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Girl, 2, Snatched from Her Yard
Aired March 11, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight the mystery of a missing toddler deepens as the frantic search stretches into its second week.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Precious little Myra Lewis -- take a look at her; look at that angel -- vanished ten days ago from her rural Mississippi home. Police say they think she is still alive. But did her mom`s arrest on unrelated gun charges slow this investigation down? Or could it be part of a law enforcement strategy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re offering a $20,000 reward for information on little Myra`s whereabouts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searching for more clues, looking for Myra.
SHERIFF RANDY TUCKER, MADISON COUNTY, MISSISSIPPI: She may have wandered off. She may have been abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so sad. She`s only 2 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain of a loved one being gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They think someone kidnapped baby Myra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are in a lot of hurt and pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a large blended family with ten children. Mom and Dad had Myra together. Police say on Saturday, March 1, the children were playing outside. Mom left for the store. She told the kids, "Come inside the house, kids."
Two hours later, at about noon, Dad started to make lunch for the kids. He says that`s when he realized 2-year-old Myra was not there.
But listen to this. Police were not notified for four hours. Why on earth would any parent wait four hours to sound the alarm?
Myra`s mom was arrested after police searched her home and found a weapon. Having a gun is a violation of the probation she`s serving for welfare fraud.
Myra`s grandmother says the arrest could have waited and may have distracted investigators from finding little Myra.
Police say they are confident this child is alive, and somebody out there has the answer. Tonight, that`s why the FBI is offering 20 grand for information to crack this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you believe she`s still alive?
TUCKER: Because I don`t have any reason to suggest otherwise. And I`m an optimistic person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think happened to this beautiful child? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
My Lion`s Den panel is ready to debate this story. But first, out to Therese Apel. I hope I pronounced your name -- I pronounced your name right. You`re a crime reporter, Therese, with "The Clarion Ledger." You are live in Jackson, Mississippi. Therese, what are you learning tonight?
THERESE APEL, CRIME REPORTER, "CLARION LEDGER" (via phone): Well, as of right now, the investigation, what they`re releasing, it`s still all the same, except that they keep assuring us they are hopeful that Myra is alive. They said that they expect the reward money to bring out a lot more tips. Because every time they have a press conference, it has increased the call volume. So they hoping that -- as of this afternoon, they were hoping that they would be able to bring in a lot more leads that would possibly take them to where she is at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what about the car? There`s speculation all over the Internet that this child might have been hit by a car. We know authorities confiscated an SUV. But the reports are there was no blood found on the SUV. What do you know tonight, Therese?
APEL: Well, at this point I know the FBI has that vehicle in their custody. I know the grandmother had told us that the mother does not drive that vehicle. And some of the speculation pointed to whether or not they thought the mother could have backed over her on the way out of the driveway or something like that.
The grandmother said that the mother never drove that vehicle. I do know that they were -- they haven`t found anything on the inside, but the FBI was going to be processing the vehicle for possible evidence on the outside of the vehicle, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cassandra Bacon, you have helped search for Myra. You are joining us tonight because you want to help find this precious child. I`m so glad that you agreed to talk to us tonight. You know this family. Tell us about the family.
CASSANDRA BACON, HELPED SEARCH FOR MYRA (via phone): Well, they`re a nice couple. When you see one, you see them all. If you go to the grocery store, they`re together, and the children. And the 2-year-old, or the mother and the father.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me give you a little bit of what we`ve learned about the parents. And we say this, not in any way to castigate the parents, but simply that the No. 1 focus that we had as well as authorities is to find this missing child. And that means you have to look closely at whoever was last with her. OK? You have ten kids, but you have the father and you have the mother who said she went out shopping.
Myra`s parents have had a series of odd jobs. We don`t know where they`re currently working. Dad filed for bankruptcy two years ago. Mom worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken. She was arrested for welfare fraud last year.
When police searched the room after this little girl`s disappearance, cops say they found a weapon, and that`s why they arrested the mother, because that weapon was a violation of her probation.
Now the mom`s relatives are upset, saying they should have left her alone so she could be effective in finding her missing child. And that her arrest distracted from the search.
But first of all, I want to go to Marc Klaas, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, one of the leading experts on missing children, who suffered his own tragedy; the father of a beautiful child who was abducted and murdered. I have to wonder, "A," why have a gun with ten kids in the house? Is that potentially dangerous? And "B," could the mother`s arrest have been part of a strategy to pressure the family? If so, why?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Sure. Well, they`re both very good points. And sure, I think a gun in a house with a bunch of little children is potentially a danger to everybody in the house.
But what law enforcement is doing here -- and Jane, they very well may be focusing in on the family, but that`s part of the investigation. They have to investigate the family. They have to investigate friends, registered sex offenders in the community, peripheral contacts. And finally, the stranger -- the stranger possibility. And they can only move from one to the other as the various possibilities are no longer considered potential suspects in the case. So they`re going to continue to look at these people until they can prove one way or the other that they didn`t have something to do with it.
Now, we ask why it took four hours for the father to call the police. I think another good question is why did it then take the police another 24 hours before they issued the Amber Alert?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It took them 24 hours to issue the Amber Alert. Cassandra Bacon, you`re a reporter -- excuse me, Therese, you are there with "The Clarion Ledger" in Jackson, Mississippi. What do you know about the delay in issuing the Amber Alert? My understanding is that they did search the area. They searched in a four-mile radius.
And remember, we`re dealing with a toddler. If she toddled off on her own, there`s only so far she could get. Right? And she certainly can`t get past four miles. And they had searched the four-mile radius. They have not found her, which certainly leads to the question of was she abducted. Because a child does not toddle more than four miles in any one direction.
But is there controversy over a delay in sending out an Amber Alert for this child?
BACON: Well, I think that they should have started the Amber Alert after the four hours after they didn`t find her. But then the six hours after they looked. Because we went to help. They told us to come back Sunday. And we went back Sunday. That`s when they sent the Amber Alert. It was over 800 some acres we looked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So the child went missing on a Saturday. And you`re saying the Amber Alert went out on -- on Sunday. Jon Leiberman, what do you know about this?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Let me talk you through the timeline, Jane. They believe that this gorgeous little 2-year-old went missing between 10:30 and 11:30 in the morning on Saturday. The parents reported her missing at 4 p.m. on Saturday. The Amber Alert then goes out Sunday evening around 7 p.m.
So there was more than a 24-hour gap between the time that she actually went missing, and also between the time when the parents reported her missing and the Amber Alert went out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she was spotted, according to her dad, missing around noon. They waited four hours. That would mean a Saturday, at around 4 p.m. And you`re saying the Amber Alert was issued the next day, on a Sunday.
But when was the search initiated? This grid search that covered a four-mile radius from the point where she disappeared, Jon?
LEIBERMAN: Well, there were searches, local searches begun Saturday after the parents -- shortly after 4 p.m., when the parents reported her missing. But again, the Amber Alert, to notify all of the other jurisdictions around the area, and of course, around the country, was not issued until Sunday evening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: With dad in charge of as many as ten children at one time, including an infant, it`s not that hard to imagine losing track of one little girl. You`ve got ten kids. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: The parents stated they last saw the 2-year-old around 10 a.m. yesterday morning. There were several kids here. The father was watching an infant child inside. The other children went outside to play, and the 2-year-old wandered off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, is there a problem with this timeline? The father says that, oh, mom goes out shopping at around 10. He then brings -- the kids come inside at around noon. He`s making lunch, and he discovers this precious unmistakable child is missing from the house. Then there`s a gap of four hours before authorities are notified.
Let`s talk about that aspect of the timeline. Is there a problem with that timeline?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, I hope that`s a rhetorical question, because there are so many problems with this timeline.
Look, I have five kids. I know sometimes, you know, you say, where did so-and-so go? And maybe they`re upstairs or in the other room, or they`ve wandered on the porch, or whatever. Two hours missing is a lot.
And then, to know there`s a two-hour period when you don`t have the 2- year-old around, and to have another four hours before you tell somebody? That is so irrational on so many levels that there`s only a sinister inference. There`s a reason. There`s a reason this family wanted no one to start looking sooner. Duh!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to our expert panel about this controversy surrounding arresting the missing child`s mom on a weapons charge. Was it the right thing to do? Did it stop her from looking for her child, if she`s behind bars? Or was it part of a strategy to squeeze out information? Stay right there. More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you believe she`s still alive?
TUCKER: Because I don`t have any reason to suggest otherwise. And I`m an optimistic person.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI is now offering a $20,000 reward for information on little Myra`s whereabouts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searching for more clues, and looking for Myra.
TUCKER: She may have wandered off. She may have been abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is so sad. She`s only 2 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain of a loved one being gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They think someone kidnapped baby Myra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are in a lot of hurt and pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They arrested the mother. She has a conviction for welfare fraud, and when they searched the house looking for the child, or evidence of her disappearance, they found a weapon, which is a probation violation.
Now, my last report is that she posted bond, but she`s still in jail. That`s what the Web site says. Last we checked a couple of minutes ago, trying to get out.
My question to Eboni Williams, attorney and radio personality, was that an appropriate arrest? Did it hold back her ability to search for her missing child or was it good strategy by the cops to perhaps squeeze her for information?
EBONI WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY/RADIO PERSONALITY: Well, unfortunately, Jane, the sheriff in this instance had really zero discretion concerning this matter. When they went in to conduct, you know, parts and aspects of this investigation concerning young missing Myra, they saw the guns in open plain sight and therefore had to move forward with this probation violation charge.
However, I do think that the family would be completely right to ask for some type of postponement or continuance concerning the actual court hearing concerning this probation violation, so that clearly this missing child will take precedence over that issue. But you know, unfortunately, that`s the way the legal cookie crumbles.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or, Adam Thompson, maybe they said, aha, this is an opportunity to squeeze the family for information?
ADAM THOMPSON, ATTORNEY: That`s exactly what it appears to me, Jane. You know, listen, they could have went to the home and asked what happened, but once you have someone in custody under arrest for another charge, and there`s that pressure, sitting in a room with officers, there`s no one else there, and they start probing into one case, and then ask questions about another thing, that gives them a golden opportunity to get information that they may not be privileged to otherwise, and see if there`s any loose facts out there to build a case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Investigators always take a good hard look at the last person to see a missing child. Remember when 6-year-old Isabelle Celis vanished from her home two years ago? Some people picked apart the emotional ticks of her father in a case that`s still unsolved. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIO CELIS, FATHER OF ISABELLE: We love you. And we miss you so much. And we will never give up. We will never give up looking for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now some people said they thought that was over the top. Now let`s look at Myra`s dad, Gregory Lewis. He was at the news conference and he only said this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY LEWIS, MYRA`S DAD: Just bring my baby home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that there`s someone out there that has information as to where little Myra is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marc Klaas, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, that`s all he said, "Bring my baby home." What do you make of it?
KLAAS: Well, first of all, there`s a range of emotions. When Polly was kidnapped, I never cried. But I did advocate for her. And I advocated for her very heavily on the media, because I thought nobody could do this better than me. And if I was going to get people on my side, I needed to be out there talking about who she was, what she was, what she meant to us, and how we needed people to help us bring her home. And I still think that`s the best strategy to follow when your child is kidnapped.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents out there who, for whatever reason, are unable to articulate themselves on television, or on the radio. And therefore, they`ll either never make themselves available, or make sketchy little appearances like the father did here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Cassandra Bacon, very quickly, you know the family. How old are the older kids? Because there are ten potential witnesses to what was going on in the home there -- the kids.
BACON: Well, yes. She`s got ten. I only know six. She has a 17- year-old, a 12, 11, a 10, a 8, and a 2 and a newborn. Those are the only ones I know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The older ones are old enough to be observant and to be interviewed. And I`m certain they have been interviewed about what had to be going on in the home around the time this child vanished.
We`re not letting up on this case. We`re going to stay on top of it and bring you the very latest.
We`ve got breaking news in this mystery, the jet that vanished days ago. We now know the identity of the men who boarded the plane with stolen passports. But there`s even more. That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Malaysian air force official said the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was completely off-course. They say the plane was hundreds of miles from its normal flight path, flying in the opposite direction of its intended destination of Beijing.
Air traffic control last heard from the flight as it was headed on course towards Vietnam. After that point, the plane`s transponder apparently stopped working.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The mystery of Flight 370 way off course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plane could be in the air for seven hours at 560 miles per hour. That plane could travel another 3,000 miles in that direction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was so abrupt. There was no mayday call. There were no messages back from the plane. There was no hijack squawk on the transponder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The more information we get, the more we`re inclined to conclude it was not a terrorist incident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it too early for us to make that assumption? Is it dangerous to make that assumption at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. It seems to be getting more bizarre.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning new mysteries erupt in the case of that jet that vanished into thin air, with 239 people onboard, without a trace, as if it vaporized. Four days later, still no clue where it is, or what happened.
Now, two astounding developments. Photos have emerged of the two men who boarded the plane with stolen passports. They`re from Iran and had one-way tickets to Europe. They were reportedly speaking to another Iranian the night before they left. Interpol says it doesn`t think this was a terrorist attack, but the CIA said it is not ruling out the possibility that this was terrorism.
We`re also learning that the jet literally turned around in the skies and went backwards in a totally different direction. Look at that. Like a triangle going off course by hundreds of miles before falling off the radar.
And get this: after 45 minutes in the air, before it actually made that turn, the jet stopped sending transponder signals. Why did it stop signaling its position? Why did it then turn around in mid-air?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there someone unauthorized in the cockpit, ordered the transponder turned off, ordered the plane to fly, you know, a 90-degree turn off-course. Second is, did one of the pilots do it themselves?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Desperate family members have been calling the missing passengers` cell phones. And some report the cell phones have been ringing. Does that mean the plane landed somewhere safely, possibly? Experts say no way. But some relatives are clinging to hope tonight.
Straight out to Phillip Holloway. Thanks for joining us. You`re a flight instructor. You`re familiar with air traffic control.
This is one nobody can understand. How can this plane stop sending tracking signals, and proceed to turn around and go in the opposite direction, hundreds of miles off-course without somebody from air traffic control saying, before it disappeared, "Hey, buddy, you`re going in the wrong direction"?
PHILLIP HOLLOWAY, FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR: Right. This is the ultimate mystery wrapped inside an enigma. And quite frankly, we`re relying upon the Malaysian air force and what they say happened. They say that they got this target of this aircraft changing course. But they don`t have any other electronic communication coming from the aircraft. They don`t have any other transponders. They don`t have their ACAR signal coming from it.
So I tend to believe that that information about the course reversal is questionable. I think we just have to see a little bit more hard proof that what they say they saw on the radar was actually this particular aircraft. I`m not convinced that it was.
However, if it was, the only thing that makes sense -- and this doesn`t make entirely sense -- good sense to me -- but what does make the first (ph) sense is that there was some partial structural failure that could have led to a decompression of the aircraft.
You know, there are -- a huge difference of pressure on the outside of the cabin and the inside of the cabin. We look back to the Payne Stewart flight, where his aircraft here in the United States lost its pressurization. And within a matter of seconds, people go ahead and they pass out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s 60 degrees below zero in the air outside.
But listen to this. This is what I thought was really bizarre. One of the possible reasons for the plane`s disappearance -- obviously, we`ve just been talking about there`s mechanical; there`s terrorism. There`s also pilot error. Now get this: One young woman spoke to Australia`s 9 News about the co-pilot in this case, his questionable past behavior. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were standing in line at the boarding gate, just with everybody else. And the pilot and co-pilot walked past us and came back and asked us if we would like to sit with him in the cockpit during the flight. So obviously, we said yes.
It didn`t seem unusual to them. I think they might have before invited people into the cockpit with them. Possibly a little bit sleazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Possibly a little bit sleazy. Philip Holloway, you`re a flight instructor. Does that raise alarm bells about possibly some -- the pilot or the co-pilot having psychological issues?
HOLLOWAY: Well, I think what it does is it raises a question about that pilot`s error, maybe, in judgment on that particular flight. I think that we have to know a lot more before we can directly relate that incident to this particular, what`s going to turn out to be a tragic event. I`m just not quite ready to make the conclusion that the...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, honestly, I`m not asking for conclusions, because I don`t think you could offer, since Interpol and the CIA, nobody can come up with conclusions, but the possibilities.
I mean, you`ve got -- terrorism hasn`t been ruled out by the CIA, although they`re saying it`s unlikely. Then there`s -- you talked about mechanical failure. And then there`s this idea of maybe a non-terrorist type of event where somebody does something rash, like the pilots. There`s possibly suicide. Or maybe some kind of hijacking that`s unrelated to terrorism.
HOLLOWAY: Absolutely. It is not at all beyond the realm of possibility that one or both of these pilots had something to do with it, because if anybody knew how to turn off both of the transponders, that`s actually an easy thing to do. But they would have to have some advanced knowledge about how to turn off the ACAR system, which is an automated system that transmits flight data back to the airline. If they knew how to do that and they had some psychological problems, it`s not beyond the realm of possibility.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. And the mystery remains and is growing with every passing minute.
Viral justice. A mom who was supposed to be caring for her young daughter, literally nodding off on a city bus. Well, the video went viral. And you will not believe what happened next.
Plus, steamy, steamy new video from Justin Bieber and his longtime girlfriend, Selena Gomez. Here`s a hint: dirty dancing. Yes, we`re going to show it to you on the other side.
And more from that wild deposition from the Biebster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At times during the four-hour deposition, Bieber appears to be uncooperative.
JUSTIN BIEBER, POP STAR: I don`t have to listen to anything you have to say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t hear your response.
BIEBER: You know -- I didn`t finish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry.
BIEBER: What? You didn`t want to interrupt?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mama. Mama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight shock and outrage. Viral justice strikes again. Cops say this video was posted to Facebook and it went viral fast.
It shows a mom apparently nodding out on a Philadelphia bus, while her little daughter tries to wake up her mommy, and even holds her head up so the woman doesn`t fall over. Look at this. We had to blur the woman`s face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mama. Mama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not just napping. Moments ago we learned the little girl has been taken away from her mother after outraged citizens called police and demanded justice for this little girl. Police said it looked like the 26-year-old mother was, quote, "doing the heroin nod", end quote, alternating between a waking and drowsy state.
However, we want to stress, we have no official confirmation the mother was on drugs. And we invite her on any time. And obviously we`ve blurred her face so she`s not identifiable. We can tell you she has a history of theft and prostitution.
The mother posted an unbelievably angry message to Facebook. Quote, "I f`ing hope all you scum bags out there are f`ing happy," end quote. I just lost the best thing in the world to me, all because people think before they open their mouths."
A lot of people are upset, pointing out that somebody recorded this video and it went on and on and on. I watched the raw. For minutes they recorded the mom nodding off as stations are announced, as people walked by -- tons of people walked by. Nobody says a word to the bus driver, nobody calls 911. Nobody tries to intervene. Even though obviously there`s a little seven-year-old approximately sitting there on a bus, with a mother who`s out of it.
Straight out to the "Lion`s Den", Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, what should happen next? They took the daughter away. The mother hasn`t been charged with anything. Should she mother be charged with something like endangering the welfare of a child?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, probably not. You know, I do think this is a DCF investigation, at a minimum. And they should check out what else is going on in this kid`s life because if the mother woman is passing out from drugs or anything else, that`s dangerous for a kid on a bus or at home or anywhere else. So they should do an investigation.
I don`t think it`s a crime. And as you know, Jane, and I`ve heard you say it, I have a soft spot for people with addiction. If she can get help and become a better mother and she really is a good mother otherwise, then she should get help.
JON LEIBERMAN: Well Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, we can`t say this woman was on drugs, prescription or illegal. But that`s obviously the first thing that comes to mind. That`s what people were posting, that she`s in an altered state. She`s not napping, she seems to be nodding out.
Now, we can tell you, independently of that, heroin use is skyrocketing across the country. Experts say it`s almost doubled in the last five years. And prescription pills are at the center of the epidemic. About three-quarters, 80 percent of the people who use heroin in 2011, have previously abused mood-altering prescription pills that give you a heroin- like high. We`re talking like Vicodin and Oxycodone. Ok. Heroin use is 19 times higher than people who have abused prescription pain meds.
So I want to go to Peter Santoro, recovering addict. You have admitted and very courageously talked about your recovery, that you have done heroin in the past. You have done pills that have a heroin-like high. When you -- let`s show the video -- when you see this woman, what we call nodding out, we don`t know for sure, but what does it look like to you -- Peter.
PETER SANTORO, RECOVERING ADDICT: Yes. Well --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does it look like to you?
SANTORI: It`s very sad. I mean this is a woman obviously either on heroin, or methadone, or some sort of Oxycodone, or some sort of, you know, opiate addictive drugs. You know, we`re always surprised at that. This is what these drugs do. I mean, the reason people use them is because they work.
The interesting thing is, though, it`s a treatable disease. The woman`s not a bad person. She is sick. This disease wants to kill. And it doesn`t discriminate. It`s very patient. It will -- before it kills you, it will make you miserable. And the truth is it will affect all the people around you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I want to say this. I want to say this Anna David, CEO, afterpartchat.com, I`m in recovery, hopefully April 1st I`ll have 19 years. I certainly am not going to point the finger. Here`s the thing, though. She took absolutely no responsibility in her open letter where she basically said "F you" to everybody. And there`s a child who -- it breaks my heart for this child, that she`s got to prop her mom`s head up.
Let`s call it what it is. It doesn`t look like she`s taking a nap.
ANNA DAVID, CEO, AFTERPARTCHAT.COM: It doesn`t look like she`s taking a nap, Jane. I would agree with Peter, it looks like an opiate nod. And you know, yes, it`s not great that she has this horrible reaction. But I have learned being in recovery for over 13 years, that you never know who`s going to get it and who isn`t.
You know, I wouldn`t rule her out. You know, possibly this is the loudest intervention, you know, and just the one she needs. But I think it`s tragic watching all those people ignore her and her child sitting there trying to help. But showing the -- the fact that this went viral is, you know, helping to make people more aware.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something --
LEIBERMAN: That`s the thing -- Jane. I mean this video tells us a lot about our society. People are so afraid to get involved. Obviously there`s no legal, you know, duty to report this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But ultimately they did get involved, Jon.
MURPHY: That`s not true. That`s not true.
LEIBERMAN: They did not get involved -- no, nobody got involved during this, said anything to the bus driver.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, not during this but somebody videotaped it and put it online and that`s when the police got involved. And they have taken this child away. There`s a cause and effect here. Had this video not been taken --
LEIBERMAN: Yes. But people could have called 911. They could have done a lot more active things at the scene.
MURPHY: They should have.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, that might have traumatized the child. That might have traumatized the child. I`m not going to sit there and second-guess because honestly, if you get involved in a situation like that on a bus, and you start shaming, publicly shaming the mother, that might traumatize the child even more than having to go home and then the police get involved and approach it from perhaps a less public way.
LEIBERMAN: But what if something happened to that little girl on the way home?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know. You know what to me -- go ahead, Wendy.
MURPHY: I`m just going to say, you don`t have to shame somebody like that. You can offer help. And calling 911 doesn`t mean you want them to go to jail.
LEIBERMAN: Right.
MURPHY: It means you`re trying to get them help. 911 is for medical emergencies. That was clearly a medical emergency. What I don`t like about this mother is the fact that she didn`t herself express shame. That she didn`t say, "Oh, my god, I lost my child. I will do anything it takes to get my child back. I`m going to go into a sober house." Whatever.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. I don`t know. I can`t say.
MURPHY: That is shameful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can`t say unequivocally she`s a drug addict. But what I do know about drug addicts, they do not take responsibility. And Peter you can back me --
SANTORO: Yes but --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They never admit it. They will deny it. If you find a needle in their arm, they will say, "Oh, you`re wrong, somebody accidently bumped into me and they accidently punctured my arm." They will never, no matter what they`re confronted with, admit that they have a problem. Why? Why, Peter?
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: Then you can`t help --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know why, Peter. Tell us why.
SANTORO: I can tell you why. You know, 23 years ago I was an active drug addict. And I was the guy in the street that turned out to be homeless. It`s a shame-based disease. To criticize the mother is short sighted. The woman is sick. She`s terribly sick. If you`re on that bus in a situation like that, you call the police. You don`t confront her, you don`t shame her, you don`t put your hands on the child -- you do something to help that woman. The woman needs treatment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. The reason why she`ll never admit it is that if she admits it, she has to stop using. Right -- Anna David. We have ten seconds.
DAVID: Yes, absolutely. The moment to come clean is the moment that, you know, people are going to say, great, get into treatment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. That`s why an addict and their disease will always deny, deny, deny, deny.
The Biebster dirty dancing, you`ve got to see the video he posted. It`s unbelievable and we`re going to show it you next. Is he trying to take attention away from his train wreck depo video? We`ll also show you that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: Yes and no are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pretty different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on. Let`s take a break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take a break.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIEBER: Yes and no are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pretty different.
What kind of a question is that?
I don`t have to listen to anything you have to say.
You didn`t want to interrupt?
That doesn`t make sense. That`s a weird question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think this is funny?
BIEBER: Guess what. Guess what. I don`t recall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s just beginning. Justin Bieber like you`ve never seen him before. Shirtless and dirty dancing with his on-again off-again squeeze Selena Gomez. Bieber posted -- Bieber himself posted these steamy Instagram videos of the pair heating up the dance floor. And then had second thoughts, quickly deleted it. But we got it.
(MUSIC)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Bieber posted this hours after shocking deposition video showed him smug and rude -- just, can I say snotty, yes -- while being grilled for a lawsuit that was filed by the paparazzo. Was the Biebs trying to distract us from this really awful deposition that has caused so much criticism? He got real macho when the lawyer dared to ask him about Selena Gomez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever talked to Selena Gomez? Especially dealing with the paparazzi?
BIEBER: Don`t ask me about her, man. Don`t ask me about her. Don`t ask me about her again. You know what? Let`s stop. Don`t ask me about it again. Don`t ask me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take a break.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, the humanity, or should I say the bieb-manity. TMZ says Bieber was with Selena all weekend. Here he is performing at South by Southwest where he dedicated his song to his, quote, "baby".
Straight out to the "Lion`s Den", Kendra G, oh, my gosh, Selena`s parents are distraught because they`re back together. Can you blame them?
KENDRA G, TV PERSONALITY: Well, of course, I can blame them. I mean Justin Bieber right now is proving to the world that he can do whatever he wants.
First of all, I`m not sure he deleted the video because, you know, he didn`t want us to see it. He wasn`t dancing all that well on that video he posted on Instagram. I mean deleting the video --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was grinding pretty darn good, though.
G: Yes, he was grinding pretty well, but you know, I am so over Justin Bieber. This is a spoiled brat. $130 million in the bank and no one can tell him anything.
And I feel bad, Jane, to say this, but he`s going on the same path as a Michael Jackson and a Whitney Houston because they had so many yes people in their lives not telling them the truth about themselves and what happened to them? They`re no longer with us.
Actually, we`re watching the documentation of a boy self-destructing in front of the whole world. It`s kind of really sad. It really is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that or he`s a 19-year-old with a hell of a lot of money, fame and power and he`s just acting out like a 19-year-old -- or I think he`s 20 now.
At one point Bieber was asked --
G: Well, he`s 20. He had a birthday. But Jane, at the deposition, he has no respect for anyone. So how can you control a person who doesn`t respect obviously his mother and father? They`re not (inaudible) of child support because he supported them as a child. And no one can control him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. Let`s hear him respond to a question he clearly did not want to answer to. He closes his eyes and pretends to be asleep. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your question? Shall we have it read back?
BIEBER: Well, I don`t know, Katie Couric, you tell me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you calling me Katie Couric?
BIEBER: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your answer? Remind me of your answer.
BIEBER: No.
BIEBER: it seems like a 16-year-old --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Demetria Lucas, pop culture expert, does this kid need a smack-down, a spanking?
DEMETRIA LUCAS, POP CULTURE EXPERT: Look, you know, Justin is obviously is not in his best behavior right here. He`s surly -- he`s got an attitude. But, you know, I find it hard to throw him under the bus. He`s 19 years old. Any of us who were --
G: He`s 20 now. He just had a birthday.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: 20 -- there you go.
LUCAS: Ok. But if he`s 20 years old, he`s still very much a kid. And you know, I have a very hard time thinking that he`s getting out of control or a he`s bad seed or he`s on a bad path. He`s acting like he`s 20 years which is immature and a little out of control. I can`t be just so hard on him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: His lawyer says it`s our fault, America. More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIEBER: This goes out to my baby. As long as you love me. We could be starving, we could be homeless, we could be broke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day, send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.
Louie and Ellie -- Louie, Louie, Louie, Louie. Izzy, you are stunning. And Friday -- every day of the week is Friday with this pooch. And Abby says, I am a power mogul. Look at my --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIEBER: I don`t have to listen to anything you have to say.
Disciplined -- what kind of question is that?
Is he my son? Guess what? Guess what? I don`t recall.
Yes and no are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pretty different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, face-off. We got Kendra G versus Demetria Lucas. Kendra G one of his attorneys blamed America saying people provoke him and make him miserable. Take it away.
G: Ok, first of all I don`t what Demetria was talking about. Beyonce was a star at 19, Usher was a star at 19, Justin Timberlake was a star 19 and they had mothers who would not handle that. Justin Bieber does not get a pass because he`s a not a kid. He`s not a kid. He`s a rich, spoiled brat and I`m not giving him a pass. So Demetria, girlfriend, I don`t know what you`re talking about. But I don`t see --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Demetria -- your turn.
LUCAS: Such anger from Kendra -- where is all this coming from? You know what, Justin Bieber he`s 20 years old, he would be like your average college student. He`s not acting in a great manner. He`s definitely not being a role model right now but he`s behaving very much like a young adult. We all made mistakes at that age, we all were inappropriate.
And you know, honestly some of the questions he was being asked were very stupid. What did Usher or Selena have to do with anything? Did he respond the right way? Absolutely not.
But it was kind of a weird question, so I`m not really mad at him for, you know, getting a little surly and upset. So Justin -- I wish you the best.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Ladies, go fight it out off camera. It was great having you both on.
All right. Back to serious news -- that was serious news too, in a different way. An exclusive interview tomorrow with a man whose wife was killed in a car accident caused by Ebony Wilkerson. That`s right, the pregnant mother who drove her minivan full of kids into the ocean. We`re going to talk to somebody who says she`s killed before.
END
