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Vanished: Missing Plane Mystery; Famous Designer Found Dead in Apartment; Working in Porn Industry to Pay for College; Boisterous Behavior of Toronto Mayor; Adults` Brawl over Their Kids School Conflicts
Aired March 17, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, missing plane mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I were a terrorist and I were watching this, I would get a pretty good, you know, chuckle out of it, unfortunately, because you`re causing what, chaos, confusion and panic.
PINSKY: Could a medical reason explain it?
And celebrity suicide. It`s taken social media by storm.
Then, paying for college with porn. The freshman who`s baring it all is here to take on her critics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love porn. It hasn`t been degrading for me.
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.
My co-host is Sirius/XM Radio host Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, celebrity suicide, the death of L`Wren Scott.
But, first up, we are going on now, day 11, still no Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. It doesn`t mean there`s no sign of the plane. Tonight, new information about the timeline and the men at the controls.
Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is mind boggling that 10 days in, no one knows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This huge plane, 200 feet from one side to the other and this plane managed to make all this movement with no radar picking it up, no people seeing it and nobody seeing it since.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two systems stopped working during that same rough period, the handover between the Malaysian and the Vietnamese air space.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The systematic approach with which it was shut down, that suggests to me that it was shut down by somebody. No one does anything in a cockpit, I don`t care how small or big the airplane is without the other guy knowing. You don`t go on your own, half the plane is yours, half the plane is mine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 1:19 a.m., someone in the cockpit believed to be the co-pilot makes the last verbal contact with air traffic controllers. And he says the words, "All right. Good night."
PINSKY: Joining us, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Carrie Keagan, pop culture expert, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell."
First up, I`ve got HLN`s Lynn Berry to give us the latest.
Lynn, go ahead.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST (via telephone): Well, Dr. Drew, the thing is that the only information that they have is gives them an indication this was a deliberate act was the fact that the systems were shut off before that last communication from the co-pilot. So, if there`s any duress or problem, the co-pilot would have indicated that.
He didn`t. He said, "All right. Good night." About ten minutes later, that`s when they changed course.
Now, the problem is that this plane could have been going for seven hours. That`s when that last handshake occurred. That means that the area that authorities have to scan is huge, 26 countries involved, 11 countries possibly this plane could have flown over.
And the big question at the press conference this weekend -- is it possible that that last communication, seven hours later, was made from the ground? And authorities said, yes, it is possible if they still had power. And imagine for these people who have a family member on board, the hope that that gives them.
But this is a timeline where if this plane has landed somewhere, it could be used for the wrong purposes. If this pilot was on some sort of suicide mission.
So, every single minute counting, no new information, imagine the frustration we have, the family members you can only imagine --
PINSKY: Just has to be excruciating. Thank you, Lynn.
Let`s break down the information we have.
Take a look at this -- we`ve got, first up, let`s see. Going to put that up? Yes, communication system and transponder was disabled, right? Then air traffic loses the plane. Again, the plane is going from the Thai or the Malaysian air space to the Vietnamese air space or at least air traffic which is precisely when it can disappear.
Final voice communication, "All right. Good night". And then they check in with the Vietnamese air traffic, then the military radar found them off course in the opposite direction. It`s just a huge mystery.
Segun, did you want to say something there?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Dr. Drew, as we know, assumptions are the mother of all screw-ups. And it seems like we`re making some assumptions without having all of the facts. What bothers me are: we`re using words like deliberately steered off course. When we say deliberate, it automatically implies terrorism or hijacking or was the pilot on a suicide mission.
But these are things we do not know, and because we do not know them, we start stacking the deck with -- OK, well, if this was a hijacking, this is why. But it may not be a hijacking. We just don`t know. We shouldn`t use words like that.
PINSKY: Got it.
Loni, I`ll get you in a second. Carrie, I saw you nodding your head at what Segun was saying.
CARRIE KEAGAN: Well, I mean, yes, there are so many conspiracy theories out there right now. We don`t really have all the information. It`s quite possible this could have been a terrorist move, that the pilot and the co- pilot actually did try and steal the plane. It`s very possible that that plane then crashed into the water and everyone is, unfortunately, gone.
We just continue know. Crazy for all of this, first of all, to have happened. It`s even crazier for us to just sit here and speculate on things we know nothing about.
PINSKY: Well, now, Loni, go ahead and speculate.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, thank you. We actually do have incoming information. The investigators will go through a process of elimination.
Look, here we have something that`s way too much of a coincidence. Right as this plane is going into this no man`s land between the Malaysian and the Vietnamese air space where they have no contact, we know a couple of things. One they say good night. That`s the last verbal communication. Then the transponder gets turned off. That has to be intentionally turned off by the pilot or someone who knows how to do it. Then, a few minutes later we have this ACARS, the other communication system, turned off assertively by someone in the cockpit or underneath the belly.
There`s too much coincidence there for that to just happen.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Right.
COOMBS: Then the plane doing a dramatic turn not to go back to where they came from, which is what you`d do if there`s something wrong with the plane, but they`re going in a different direction. So, there`s all of these things put together. That`s not a coincidence. That`s an intentional act.
PINSKY: Let me bring in Mary Schiavo. She is CNN aviation analyst. She`s an aviation attorney and a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.
Mary, you heard my panelists` theories. I`ll throw in another one. Something happened that made the pilot and co-pilot somehow disabled or unable to operate the plane normally and maybe that`s why. What`s your theory?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (via telephone): Well, over the course of working a lot of different cases and seeing a lot of different things go wrong with planes over the years, you know, my theory is still it`s way too early and there`s simply no evidence and mechanical failure should not be ruled out. It would be a catastrophic mechanical failure that would either disorient or disable the pilots. I think that`s a very real possibility.
PINSKY: But, Mary, how do you explain the transponders and all the recording equipment being turned off? What`s the explanation for that?
SCHIAVO: Uh-uh, there`s no knowledge they were turned off. There`s knowledge that they stopped transmitting.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
SCHIAVO: Stopped transmitting.
COOMBS: But how do they stop transmitting? What can cause the transmissions to stop? Of those two separate communications systems?
ODUOLOWU: Loni, just remember now --
SCHIAVO: The plane had the catastrophic fires, explosions, any number of things that can happen on a plane. There have been situations where, you know, planes have literally lost all their communications systems. There are many things to explain it. It`s far too early to rule that out.
My second theory would, of course, be a hijack theory where somebody invaded the cockpit.
PINSKY: Segun, have that -- Segun.
ODUOLOWU: May I ask, because like you said it could be mechanical error, do you think then that it is presumptuous of us and for someone like Loni to say deliberate turned off or deliberately steered a certain way without any real hard evidence to support those facts? Everything we`re doing now is an assumption. So, when we go on assumption --
COOMBS: But that`s how you come to a conclusion, you have make presumption --
ODUOLOWU: But when you assume you only look in a certain direction to back that assumption --
PINSKY: OK. Segun, Loni, hold on.
Mary, answer that question, please.
SCHIAVO: Well, no, I think actually when you try out theories, you remember what Edison said before he made the light bulb he found a thousand ways not to make a light bulb. I think trying different theories is very important, but I also think it`s important -- and you don`t have to worry that the investigators will get steered by public assumption.
The investigators know how to investigate because they have to do two things. They have to find what happened and then they have to go one step further, they have to find motive. And right now, there`s not much evidence to go on. So that`s why one of the reasons this is so difficult.
But I can say that they can`t say for certain that it was turned off because they can say for certain that it stopped for whatever reason.
PINSKY: OK. Now, we`re going to have to go to break.
Mary, I wonder if you`ll stay with me for a second. I want to bring in the behavior bureau to see if they have any potential explanations, having looked at the flight crew and the captain, the co-pilot, if there`s something there that can help us out a little bit.
Thank you, panel.
What perhaps a medical explanation, something to look more closely at these pilots and whatever else we can find out about the flight crew itself.
And later, celebrity suicide -- what made this renowned designer take her own life, in a very bizarre, by the way. I`m going to investigate that, too.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say that somebody steered the plane off course on purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether or not it was deliberate. The very fact that it may have been the co-pilot to be the last one to communicate, is that significant? This is what investigators are now looking for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Malaysia Airlines CEO said that pilot has to go through psychological tests to get their jobs. In the United States, the FAA requires psychological testing. One pilot says his airline when he applied for his job asked him questions like, do you like your mother, do you hate your father?
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: I`m back with Jenny.
We`re going to focus in on the pilot and co-pilot of Flight 370, and bring in the behavior bureau, which is Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, forensic psychologist. And I still have Mary Schiavo on the phone.
Jenny, you wanted to comment about this?
HUTT: I do. I just have to tell you, Dr. Drew, that I do feel like it`s deliberate. And I have to tell you that every time I get on an aircraft, I go to the cockpit, I introduce myself to the pilots and I ask them if they`re feeling OK, if they have a lot to live for, are they depressed, and have they can drinking. I know it sounds crazy, but I do it in part because I think if they know me, they won`t kill me, because I want to check.
PINSKY: It does sound crazy, I have to tell you, because if they`re drinking they`re not going to tell you. If they`re suicidal, they`re not going to tell you either.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right.
PINSKY: But I do want to go around the horn with my mental health professionals and ask them whether or not they think -- let`s assume this was a suicide, just an assumption, does the fact that he would have taken down all those people with him make it more or less likely? In other words, what kind of person who`s committing suicide will take other people out with them? I say it makes it much less likely.
Erica, your comment?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes, I don`t really think that that -- that is a possibility but it also could be a hijacker.
PINSKY: But stay with my question. But stay with my question.
PINSKY: The fact that he`d have to kill all those other people, more or less likely than a suicide.
AMERICA: Much less likely.
PINSKY: Less likely.
Cheryl, what do you say?
ARUTT: Who is suicidal would be very depressed and care about other people, Dr. Drew. Somebody who wouldn`t care about taking hundreds of people down with him would be more of a sociopath.
ARUTT: I think way, way less likely.
PINSKY: Yes, and we would have had evidence of that through whatever, talking to people on the ground about these gentlemen when we`ve heard nothing of the kind.
Judy, do you agree?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Dr. Drew, I actually thing that it`s much more likely if somebody is so ill to the point where they want to take their own lives. Mental illness at its greatest point is a very, very selfish disease. You become very self-centered.
And if you`re going to die anyway, why would you care if you brought the rest of the world with you that will cease to exist.
PINSKY: All right. Three on one.
We`re going to look now to some surveillance video of what is believed to be the pilots going through security from YouTube.
Now, while we`re looking at that video, I want to propose to my professionals here the possibility that something medical happened, not so much mental health standpoint, but maybe he had a delirium or maybe one of these pilots or co-pilots had a brain tumor that suddenly became symptomatic and he became violent and became disorganized and turned off the transponders.
PINSKY: Who thinks that`s a possibility?
Erica, you say no.
AMERICA: No, definitely not. I don`t think this was a psychotic break or medical --
PINSKY: Yes, but --
AMERICA: Just seems like there`s too much planning.
Listen, I`ve been watching a lot of HLN, a lot of CNN, and all the experts say this is someone very smart. There was a lot, a lot of thought. The transponder was turned off, they circumvented radar, they went too high, they went too low.
PINSKY: All right. OK.
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I just want to point to something that you showed at the very beginning of this segment, which is that they underwent psychological evaluation. But what does that mean? So, I looked into a couple of reports about what the psychological evaluation consists of. And it`s mostly things like IQ tests and problem-solving tasks. That makes sense because Malaysia along with a lot of other Asian American, Asian or Pacific islander countries really do still stigmatize mental illness.
PINSKY: Interesting. So maybe it wouldn`t get picked up.
HO: That`s right.
ARUTT: Well, I would have loved to have seen the psychological tests. But I got to say I don`t consider it suicide if you take hundreds of people down with you, it`s mass murder. I`m sorry, but it`s mass murder. And I think somebody who would strategize that way wasn`t in a suicidal state of mind. I just don`t think so.
PINSKY: Mary, you`re still with us. Help us put all these thoughts together that make senses from an aviation standpoint.
SCHIAVO: Well, from the aviation standpoint, from the cases that I`ve worked over the years, I`m very, very cautious about blaming the pilots of this plane rather than intruders or hijackers because I`ve worked many, many cases where the pilots were blamed for horrible things -- you know, crashing the plane, this, that and the other thing and in almost every case it`s been proven otherwise.
I got a pilot blamed for a crash and it was fried wires in the steering column. I had a pilot blamed for a crash in the trim system was mis- rigged. I got a pilot blamed for a crash and it was some other thing out or a rudder hard-over.
So, I`m always very cautious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Question for Mary.
SCHIAVO: Sometimes, the evidence shows it`s entirely something else. And I know the families who have had to deal with this until the truth finally comes out.
PINSKY: Mary, thank you very much. Thank you for my panel.
I say these gentlemen do not appear to be someone with mental health history and nor in a mental health crisis of any sort when they got on this plane. You never know what medical issues, but to make a medical problem explain -- to have medical problem explain all this elaborate behavior, pretty tough to do.
So, I come down to the side of what Mary`s saying, that an outside force or, as you say catastrophic failure.
Thank you, panel.
Next up, a world famous designer apparently kills herself. I have some ideas about what might have happened to L`Wren Scott.
And later, a college student that`s footing her bill for school, $60,000, she says, by having sex on camera. She`s here.
And we`ll be back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fashion world is a much darker place today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Designer L`Wren Scott was found dead inside of her New York apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the assistant who reportedly found Scott hanged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hanging by a scarf that had been tied to a door knob.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve seen her designs on plenty of A-listers, on plenty of red carpet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Noted fashion designer, the longtime girlfriend of Mick Jagger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No suicide note was found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The entire fashion world left reeling by this loss.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our behavior bureau, Erica, Judy, and adding Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
And we`re talking about fashion designer L`Wren Scott who apparently had hung herself in her New York apartment.
Hours before she was found, Scott sent a text saying to her assistant simply saying, come by. Quote, "Come by". No foul play suspected. No suicide note found.
Sam, tell me what else you know?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, for one, Dr. Drew, L`Wren Scott`s alleged suicide is all over social media. So, primarily Twitter. So, of course, you see the outpour of condolences from her supporters, from her fans, from celebrities.
PINSKY: Hey, Sam, I`m looking right now at the #LWrenScott. You can push it up there and it goes on and on and on.
SCHACHER: It is, especially Twitter.
PINSKY: This is my Twitter feed, I`m on my iPad right now. Just goes on and on.
SCHACHER: If you continue to look at that hashtag, Dr. Drew, you`ll see a lot of outrage. And her supporters and fans are absolutely outrage that there`s been a number of headlines that read Mick Jagger`s girlfriend commits suicide. They don`t like the idea that her relationship with Mick Jagger is completely overshadowed her incredible successful fashion design career.
PINSKY: Now, I`ve got two mental health professionals still left behind here on this panel with Judy and Erica. I want to ask you guys this -- she hung herself on a doorknob with a scarf. No suicide note, no reports of antecedent suicidality.
What are your theories, Erica?
AMERICA: Well, we`re just speculating here but there have been reports that her company unfortunately was in debt to the tune of $6 million and that she may have been very humiliated by this. Now, what`s kind of interesting is in her world, $6 million isn`t that much. She had very rich friends. She probably could have asked for help.
But it just shows you when certain people are humiliated and their career is taken away from them, it`s like an ego loss, that is so strong that they see (INAUDIBLE) nothing else.
PINSKY: I don`t know what world Erica lives in, but $6 million is a lot of money, I don`t care who you`re socializing with.
AMERICA: But still --
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
But, Judy, what is your theory?
HO: You know, sometimes people go into this sort of suicidal intent and it`s really a cry for help. Where they take the pills and they call somebody right away, go to the hospital. It`s nonlethal.
What I see about her history is that she really intended to go through with this suicide.
PINSKY: Why? What do you see?
HO: Yes. Well, she dropped a very casual text message, come by. You know what that was for, just for her assistant to come and clean up the mess. That`s all that was for.
And then to actually call her assistant to do that instead of calling a family member last or a loved one, that`s really interesting, too, because that means she was all business about getting this done.
PINSKY: All right. Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, she`s 6`3" and reports are she was hanging from a doorknob, please explain how that works.
PINSKY: Yes. The only time and it`s interesting, somebody on Twitter picked this up just, they speculated exactly what I`m about to say. I don`t know this woman. I have no evidence if this is true.
But I can tell you in any experience, Judy and Erica, listen carefully, when it`s a low hanging, when it`s somebody with a belt or scarf of and attached to something low behind them, in my experience -- by the way, usually males -- in my experience --
SCHACHER: Auto erotic asphyxiation.
PINSKY: That`s right, Sam. Auto erotic asphyxiation, when they lean into the noose and they go too far and they`re out and done.
So if that doorknob were eight feet up, I`d say, OK, suicide. But leaning in to a scarf, come on, guys, what do you think, Judy?
HO: My gosh, it`s like she`s trying to torture herself in the worst way possible before she actually takes her last breath. I don`t really know what was going on that made her so self-destructive.
PINSKY: No, I`m saying. You`re missing my point.
SCHACHER: She was trying to get pleasure out of it.
PINSKY: Sam seems to know what this is, Sam.
PINSKY: You understand what this is. And I`ve had patients die of this. They self-stimulate while they`re asphyxiating themselves. It happens in my world mostly after somebody comes off opiates. I don`t know anything about this woman`s history. But if somebody has been an opiate addicts, they do engage in these kinds of behaviors.
AMERICA: I think that we need more information. I mean, we need to have interviewed her boyfriend, Mick Jagger, her friends, her family. I mean, on Twitter, as far the team, the people that knew her through the design world were shocked. They couldn`t believe it. So, they can`t coincide in them.
PINSKY: Well, Judy, no? Judy, you say no?
HO: I think she seems very, very secretive. So, whatever information we`re going to drag out, it`s going to be coming from a very deep, dark place, because nobody has this information.
PINSKY: Second mystery of the night. We have the Malaysian airline, we have a dead celebrity, we have no answers.
Next up, I do have the Duke University student who is paying for her schooling with porn. She`s here. She wants to know what I think of her business plan.
And later, I`ve got Rob Ford swearing and staggering around in a new video. Rob Ford, the gift that keeps on giving. We`ll show that video to you after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BELLE KNOX, PAYING FORF COLLEGE WITH PORN: I love porn. It hasn`t been degrading for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Belle Knox, this is her industry name, if you will.
KNOX: I can make about $1200 each scene. She`s a Duke University freshman who does porn.
PINSKY: A fellow student who evidently enjoys a little porn himself recognized her and then that secret went public.
KNOX: I started watching pornography when I was about 12. The empowerment for women these videos had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is not empowering for women.
KNOX: The autonomy. The freedom. I decide what I want to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s BS, I think it`s ridiculous, and then calling it feminist? Oh, my gosh.
KNOX: I`m a really spontaneous person. And that kind of gets me in trouble a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Segun and Carrie. Belle Knox herself is here. She is the Duke University freshman who is engaged in pornography to help pay for her over $60,000 a year education. Belle Knox is Belle`s porn name. Belle, how did you get - what`s the whole story on this? How did you get into this and how did it come out on campus?
KNOX: Well, my Duke University tuition after financial aid was around $45,000 a year. I was not eligible for government loans. So the only loans I could take out were about 11 percent interest. And I did the math, and I simply didn`t want to be in debt for decades. I had other options.
PINSKY: I`m a little confused. I went on the Duke website, and they said they`re needs blind. That they will get your school paid for no matter what. Is that not true?
KNOX: It`s not - it`s really not true. That`s a misconception. What the statement is that they`ll meet your perceived financial aid. Therefore, what your family makes on paper could be much more than what your family can actually afford. Most families can`t afford $60,000 in tuition because most families have children or they have other bills to pay. And taxes.
PINSKY: So your family refused to pay or couldn`t pay?
KNOX: My family did not refuse to pay for my education. It was simply too much for my family.
ODUOLOWU: Well, let me first just say that I don`t have a problem, Belle, with what you`re doing. I think it`s your choice. My only slight issue is that the rain doesn`t just fall on your head alone. You have family members that are now brought into the choices you`ve made so that freedom of word you use is not entirely .
PINSKY: How has it been received by -- how has it affected your family?
KNOX: Well, on your comment, I didn`t bring my family into this. The media brought my family into this. The media has been the one who has been harassing my family. I`ve made it crystal clear I did not want my family to be involved.
PINSKY: No, no, but .
ODUOLOWU: But you can`t hide your anonymity. Once you do a video, people will know who you are. I mean it wouldn`t take Sherlock Holmes to find out who you are.
PINSKY: Let me put it there really. Let me put it there really. If I were your dad I`d be chomping down on a cyanide capsule right now. It`s all I`m saying.
PINSKY: So, it affects your family in the deep way. And how about that?
KNOX: I`m so glad you laughed at that because that`s just hilarious. But I mean, my family supports me in what I choose to do.
PINSKY: OK, Carrie, your thoughts?
KNOX: And I`m really sick of this entire culture of outing girls who we believe are sexually promiscuous or who deserve to be outted because they`re involved in another .
ODUOLOWE: Oh, no. I don`t think you should be outted. You`re not doing anything illegal. You`re not doing anything illegal. I`m not saying that you should be outted or that anything you`re doing is wrong. I`m just saying that when you say it is a thing for woman empowerment, not all women would agree with you. So, you have to take that into account.
KEAGAN: Absolutely that`s true.
ODUOLOWE: And so, they`re - fire against you - they are coming at you for their own beliefs and that`s them.
PINSKY: Hang out, little guy. Carrie, your thoughts? Carrie, go ahead.
KEAGAN: My only concern actually is the business side of things. If you`re - if you`ve gotten into this, this wouldn`t obviously be most people`s first choice as a way to make money. But you`ve decided to do this and I`m assuming that you`ve thought out all of your decision. So, now that you`ve decided to do this to make money to raise for your college tuition, at what point do you say enough is enough because it`s a very slippery slope. You`re going to start making a lot more money now that everybody knows who you are. You`re on TV now. Your rates are going to go up. At what point do you say enough I`m going to go and use my college education to make money instead of my body?
PINSKY: Great question. Belle?
KNOX: Well, as I`ve said in several interviews, now I`ve made very clear. I`m going to graduate with my class. I`m going to go on to law school and I`m going to pursue all of my dreams. And you`re absolutely right. Porn is an industry where men and women can make large amounts of money, but you can say the exact same thing about the entertainment industry, about the media industry.
PINSKY: So what is the point at which you stop? That`s the question.
KNOX: I stop whenever I feel like stopping.
ODUOLOWE: But wait, Belle, can I ask you one real quick question?
PINSKY: Real quick.
ODUOLOWE: Do you feel that - if you want to go on and be a lawyer. Do you think that because of the profession that you`re engaged in you`ll be taken seriously as a lawyer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that have to do with anything?
ODUOLOWE: She made .
KNOX: The fact that you even have to ask me that question is a problem. The fact that it is even an issue that I would be discriminated against for doing a completely legal and regulated profession, that`s the problem.
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to end this panel, I`m going to bring in somebody now who has been where Belle has been and she has to - well, let`s see what she has to say to Belle. And later, a conversation between two adults that turns into this. This is unbelievable. How did it happen? We`ll be right back after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and Belle Knox. Belle is the Duke University student who made national headlines when she confirmed that she did porn to pay for college. Joining us Lavell Crawford, comedian, actor from "Breaking Bad," Jennie Ketcham, author of "I Am Jennie" and Judy Ho. I`ll read you a tweet real quick. Here`s from Robinette 72@ Robinette 72. Jennie Ketchum, excuse me, Jennie Ketcham, I`m going to have you comment about - "what about the consequence of doing porn will have on your future. By the way, no empowerment in doing porn".
HUTT: Yeah, look, I do think that this is something that Belle can rise above, Dr. Drew. In terms of no consequence, I think there`s going to be reaction. It is a legal profession.
PINSKY: Well, she`s saying there shouldn`t be a consequence, but the fact is there will be a consequence. And that .
HUTT: I said it`s a concern.
PINSKY: Maybe, you know, that`s a different sort of question.
PINSKY: Now, Jennie K. You were active in porn when we treated you on the sex rehab program. You`ve been active in recovery since. You`ve been listening to what Belle said. What do you have to say for her?
JENNIE KETCHAM: Yeah, you know, I have a lot of things to say to Belle and for Belle. First of all, Belle, I want to congratulate you on all of this incredible media attention that you`re getting because you really are going to have an incredible career after this. I don`t say any of that in jest, I say it just because it`s really true. And D. Drew knows that was one of the reasons that I went onto his show was to get media attention. So, Drew, she`s effectively accomplished what it is that I had hoped to accomplish before I catapulted my porn career into the gutter. Now, Belle, I think it`s really important that you in talking to the media and having this sort of attention bring light to the things that are really important to women in the nation. Like for example over 30 percent of single mothers are living in poverty right now. OK, so let`s talk about female empowerment, right? So, a handful of women can in fact come out of poverty and become economically secure by participating in sex work, but that is not a solution for everybody in the nation. And to suggest that sex work is empowering grossly oversimplifies the process of empowerment. So, while I think you have some really interesting things to say and I think that you have an incredible platform, upon which to say it, I think you really need to take a hard look at the industry that you`re participating in.
PINSKY: And Jennie, it had .
KETCHAM: And the future ..
KETCHAM: That didn`t reinforce .
PINSKY: That, and .
KNOX: Wait, can I say something?
PINSKY: Real quick, though, Jennie. It had a big effect on your psyche and soul, though. And that`s what`s being overlooked here.
PINSKY: So, Belle, go ahead.
KETCHAM: Huge. Absolutely. I mean .
KNOX: Can I say something?
KETCHAM: Well, it`s like .
PINSKY: Belle, go ahead.
KETCHAM: Yeah, go for it, Belle.
KNOX: OK, well, first of all, for to you say that I`m not talking about issues that are important to women is absolutely ridiculous.
PINSKY: She didn`t say that.
KNOX: And (INAUDIBLE) marginalize this entire group .
KETCHAM: I didn`t say that.
KNOX: Of people.
PINSKY: She didn`t say that.
KETCHAM: I didn`t say that.
KNOX: I`m talking about issues that affect sex workers.
KETCHAM: Honey, I`m saying that you`re oversimplifying the issues that affect sex workers and all women in this country. It has nothing to do -- this is not a moral judgment that I`m making on you. This has to do with sustainability and really root causes of what you`re talking about. And a lot of those root causes are economic instability in the lives of young women and all women in this country. And so if you`re going to go out there and be a champion for women, then it`s really important that you`re able to discuss the broader implications of women .
PINSKY: Without, Jennie Ketcham .
KETCHAM: Not just women who used to be a sex worker.
PINSKY: Without it having all that effect on the soul and psyche of women .
PINSKY: Who choose to try to use other means? Lavell, you`d raised your hand. And what did you want to say?
LAVELL CRAWFORD, ACTOR, "BREAKING BAD": I just wanted to know, I mean. They call it sex workers. I mean, is that a large amount of different sex workers? I mean you got prostitutes, you got strippers, you got massage houses.
PINSKY: Right. Are we talking about all of that? Is that your question?
CRAWFORD: Yeah, because I mean are you a porn star? Do you get SAG union credits for this?
PINSKY: Well, and so I guess, the question, Lavell is .
KETCHAM: You don`t.
PINSKY: But the question, Lavell, is though, is are we talking about everyone in all aspects of the sex industry, is that all empowering, Belle?
CRAWFORD: Sure, because that means, sex worker, I mean - I did a stripper- gram for about five months. You know, I don`t think I`m a sex worker.
CRAWFORD: And I think you`re a pretty young lady. And you go to Duke. I can see you going to community college. No offense to people in community college.
KETCHAM: Reinforcing class issues. Huge problem, Lavell. Oh, my god.
CRAWFORD: I`m sorry, I`m sorry, but I`m just saying.
KETCHAM: If she were poor, it would be okay if she were a sex worker? Huge problem.
CRAWFORD: Well, I mean, well, I mean I`m just saying that would give her inspiration. But geez, she`s going to Duke. Duke has a great scholastic awareness and they got great basketball. They got great basketball and football.
PINSKY: We`re going to have to leave it there. Belle, I appreciate you coming on, discussing this. Next up, Rob Ford had it again. We`re going to show you what he did. A reminder, you can find us any time on Instagram @Dr. Drewhln. Please join us there. We`ll bring your tweets up and Instagrams on the camera. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB FORD, MAYOR OF TORONTO: I do not use crack cocaine, nor am I an addict of crack cocaine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no, the guy that many call the crack-smoking mayor of Toronto is at it again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you drinking last night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you drinking last night?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Who would vote for him in the next election, if you`re a Toronto citizen? Hands up. Hands up. Mike.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m moving to Toronto just to vote for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back with Lavell, Carrie and Sam. Did Toronto`s mayor, we call him lovingly crack mayor, celebrate St. Patrick`s weekend with a drink or two or three or more?
HUTT: I love that.
PINSKY: Take a look at this. You`ll smile when he came on the camera. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB FORD: I need a taxi van.
Well, I need a taxi van to take us home. I know, bro, but I need a -- you got to take me home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That video reportedly shot outside of the Toronto City Hall by a woman and her 13-year-old son who had asked the mayor for an autograph. Carrie, I haven`t heard too much about what you were thinking about him. Carrie, what do you say?
KEAGAN: I mean, I don`t know how I feel about him being in office, but I find him endlessly entertaining. And he just seems like a really cool guy to hang out with. Again, I don`t know if you should really be in office. I`m surprised that they haven`t kicked him out at this point. But whatever, it`s fascinating to watch this whole thing play out.
PINSKY: And Jenny H., here is again - we predicted he`d be binging again and now we`ve got it.
HUTT: Well, Dr. Drew, I can just see tomorrow when he says, well, you know, it was because it was St. Patrick`s Day.
HUTT: So I had a few beers. I had a few drinks. So .
PINSKY: And don`t we have footage - Sam, but I think we have footage of him saying like, did you drink on St. Patrick`s Day? His usual thing is when you ask if he was drunk, he goes - were you drunk? That`s nonsense. But Lavell, what would you say?
CRAWFORD: I think the man, he was like three sheets to the wind. I mean, he reminds me of Norm from "Cheers." I mean you know ..
CRAWFORD: The dude gets drunk, he`s a crackhead. I think he can argue the crack that he does, he hasn`t lost no weight. So, I mean if he`s a crackhead, he`s looking real good. And he`s making crack look healthy, but I mean he`s a drunk. And that poor kid thought he was a star or some kind of celebrity. I hope he don`t use these tactics to run for office when he grows up. Oh, my god.
PINSKY: Sam, go ahead.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I mean he`s like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." He just continues with the same thing over and over again.
PINSKY: Well, that`s what alcoholism is. That`s how it works.
SCHACKER: I know. But this is his M.O., though. And then for one, this isn`t our drinking buddy. This isn`t our boisterous Uncle Rob. This is the mayor of Toronto. The largest city in Canada. He needs to be held to a higher standard. And you know what, Dr. Drew, yes, he is an alcoholic. And I`m sick of it. So therefore he should finally be an example to his constituents, go seek treatment not only for his health, but for his reputation.
PINSKY: See, Carrie, I don`t think it`s about being a higher standard. I think the guy just needs treatment. He has a medical problem like any other medical problem that needs attention.
SCHACKER: If you`re in office, he has to.
PINSKY: If he`d be done something horrible while using, that`s a different deal. He`s just .
SCHACKER: Oh, my gosh.
PINSKY: He`s just making a fool of himself. Lavell, what do you say?
CRAWFORD: If you have ever been to Toronto?
CRAWFORD: It`s strip clubs, it`s massage places. Toronto`s like a small New York.
CRAWFORD: They didn`t change their Times Square, OK? I mean jeez, he`s the right mayor for this city. Come on, I mean I want my mayor to party, but I don`t want him to be on crack. But I mean he can get a little drunk and have fun. That makes me feel better about my city. It seems like everything`s all right. I`m looking at this guy like, hey, man, Toronto`s the place to be.
PINSKY: Carrie, what do you say? Carrie?
KEAGAN: At least he was responsible enough to get into a taxi van instead of driving home.
SCHACKER: Yes, because he got a DUI before.
PINSKY: You know, I`m looking over these tweets and people -- the critics do not agree. They`re going back and forth between he shouldn`t have the job, he should have the job, we love his politics. No - Sam?
SCHACKER: Yes, no wa (ph), Dr. Drill (ph).
CRAWFORD: Let me - hey, this is the funny thing. At least you have a reason why this city is going through the change, you know why. At least, you know, and I mean - you know, he`s a drunk. I mean we know why the city`s horrible. But I look at -- he`s running from the cameras. This dude is hilarious. He`s like a cartoon character. But I mean somebody voted him in, but his brother, he always got an excuse for him.
PINSKY: That`s right.
CRAWFORD: His brother got his back. I mean come on. You want some beans? I mean he`s the mayor. At least he got in a taxicab. I mean, thank god, but he`s running our city, people.
PINSKY: But he might be doing a good job. I worry about his health, though.
PINSKY: Something terrible - This is a progressive condition, it`s a serious condition. And we laugh, but it`s not a funny thing. Next up, our viral video of the night. 25 people brawl with fists, a tire iron, and then finally a gun. You look at that. We`ll show you the whole video after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The video shows groups of people arriving at the Northeast Saline County Fire Department. That`s where the father of the boy claiming to have been bullied since he planned to meet with the accused bully`s mother to talk about the problem. The court affidavit says she brought family and friends to begin an assault.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s threatening him. Point her finger .
PINSKY: Prosecutors said the video shows people running across the parking lots and initiating large fights. One man inside this car got out and immediately hit someone. This person actually got a billy (ph) club to use. Victims say the brawl ended when someone started shooting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back with Lavell, Carrie and Sam. Two high school boys not getting along. One boy`s father agrees to meet the other boy`s mother to speak. It escalates into a brawl with at least 25 young people, adults, weapons. Lavell, help me make sense of this. What`s going on here?
CRAWFORD: I mean, you know, I mean the bullying is a horrible thing that`s going on in our country right now with kids. I mean, but this right here is out of control. You tell your parents and this is what happens, a big old gang fight that looks like a scene from "Outsiders"
CRAWFORD: This is like the greasers against the ..
CRAWFORD: And they`re going at it. I mean it`s crazy, man. And I mean, I think I want to be home schooled after this. I mean, they were throwing billy clubs!
CRAWFORD: They would - who got a billy club? Where do you get that? Is he ex-police?
PINSKY: Unless he`s a cop. Yeah, he`s a cop.
SCHACKER: Lavell, I actually was about to say that. It looks exactly like a scene from "The Outsiders." This is the insane.
CRAWFORD: Where`s Bony boy?
SCHACKER: And they think that parents` are involved. Obviously, this kid is a bully, because the parents are bullying, the parents` friends are bully.
SCHACKER: And this is where the school .
KEAGAN: But that`s what the problem is.
SCHACKER: Of course, the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. And this is why, I think, schools need to implement not only dealing with the child who is bullying at school, but also dealing with the parents because that is the deep-seated issue.
KEAGAN: Of course! Of course!
CRAWFORD: But that guy just comes up, he`s saying, let me go get my billy club.
SCHACKER: Jenny, go.
HUTT: Kids have conflicts. Kids fight. Kids don`t get along.
HUTT: The fact that the parents are showing up with ammo and with people with them to do their dirty work? It`s .
PINSKY: But Carrie, I mean, the look on your face, you were shaking your head no and smiling at the same time. What`s that all about?
KEAGAN: Because as they were talking about "The Outsiders" I was actually thinking about the "Anchorman" scene where all the news crews come together.
KEAGAN: And start fighting. But I mean there are so many things that are wrong with this. I don`t even understand who these people are all fighting. I think they all know each other. I think they all just saw like an opportunity to get it on and that`s what`s happening. But like Dr. Drew, can you fix stupid? That`s the real question.
PINSKY: Well, it`s more. It`s aggression. It`s about aggression and how we use aggression and how we express aggression. Go ahead Lavell.
CRAWFORD: I mean, you know, I mean, you know, people - I mean you`re in this Arkansas, first of all, I thought it was a scene from Hatfield`s and McCoy. I didn`t know what to take of it. I think it`s a lot of bad diet down there, people eating a lot of pork and MSG and they`re going at it. And they`ll be- but the thing about it, it goes down to some poor innocent kid getting bullied. And I mean that`s the sad part about it. Now his mom and dad got their butt kicked now he don`t have nobody to protect him. I mean it`s just a sad situation. But I`m trying to figure out is the fire station area where they settle all their conflicts? Then why nobody came down with a water hose and sprayed them down.
PINSKY: Sam, quickly.
CRAWFORD: But that gunshot, you know, they said everything got straight when that gun went off. Guns will -- if they don`t kill people, they will rectify the situation.
CRAWFORD: I think everybody -- go ahead, I`m sorry.
SCHACKER: What is this symptom? Because Dr. Drew, we talked about parents.
PINSKY: Yes, we got to leave it.
SCHACKER: (INAUDIBLE) with children left and right?
PINSKY: I don`t have it. Yeah. It`s - aggression is flowing down through the kids. Right this minute starts right this minute.