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Missing Plane Mystery: Possible Debris Sighted; Would a Psychic Help the Investigation?; Theories on Missing Flight 370
Aired March 20, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNN BERRY, HLN GUEST HOST (voice-over): Tonight, is this debris from Flight 370?
Grieving families don`t want to believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m cautiously pessimistic that (AUDIO GAP) piece of the plane.
BERRY: We`re answering your questions. Many of you want to know where the psychics are. We`ve got one right here.
DR. DREW ON CALL starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: And good evening, everyone. Great to be with you tonight. I`m Lynn Berry sitting in for Dr. Drew. A well deserved night off.
Thankfully, I have my co-host, Sirius XM`s Jenny Hutt is here.
You know, Jenny, I don`t know about you, but when I woke up this morning and I heard about this debris, I thought to myself, finally a lead. I`m a little skeptical. We`ll dig into it as we learn more, right?
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Of course, yes. Well, it has taken a long time, that`s right.
BERRY: It has, but also there are a lot of questions out there.
You guys have been tweeting them to us. Keep them coming. All about this missing plane. Use that #370Qs.
But first, the breaking news: searchers looking right now for those two large objects. They were seen in those satellite photos -- we showed you earlier -- off the coast of Australia is where they were seen. Could these be part of that missing plane?
As we go to air tonight, daylight just breaking in that area. Crews getting a much better look at the terrain that they`re facing. We`re standing by, we`re waiting for word. Anything we get, we bring it to you.
Plus, we have new information about the pilot`s flight simulator. Someone deleted files from the hard drive. The FBI now says they`re retrievable. Watch.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: I have some significant information -- very clear, concise information.
TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Two possible objects related to the search have been identified.
COOPER: Two objects from satellite data.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Random objects, or the debris of Malaysian Flight 370.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of them is unusually big, 24 meters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could well be a part of the wing. It could also be a part of the tail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe, some 10 to 15 meters away is another object, five meters, relatively small.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is probably the best lead we have right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debris, indistinct maybe, but with a high degree of credibility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very, very strong current. It`s moving at about a foot per second. So that`s the worst case scenario.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most advanced aircraft out there, the best ships out there. Everything they can get heading to this area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we`re going to find it, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we`re looking for is a confirmation that it does belong to the aircraft or it does not.
BERRY: Possible. You saw that, possible. Here`s what we know at this hour. Satellite images, those satellite images, Jenny, were taken four days ago.
BERRY: They show this debris. It was found 1,500 miles southwest of Australia`s coast. There are two pieces of debris, one 79 feet long, one 16 feet long. They`re 14 miles apart.
So, there are four aircraft, one ship. They`ve all searched the area. They found nothing.
But keep in mind here, they`re dealing with low visibility. There are rough conditions, the weather has been treacherous and it`s been four days. So, you`re taking into all the currents and all that.
HUTT: Right. And it`s a huge area to search, Lynn. This isn`t like a little pond. This is a giant ocean.
BERRY: Described by the prime minister in Australia as the most isolated area in the world. That gives us a little bit of an idea.
BERRY: Joining us, Pamela Brown, CNN correspondent, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney.
Thank you all for being with me.
I want to get to Pamela first and foremost because I know you`ve been talking to the FBI. Your sources say they can retrieve so much of this information. But so many people asking me how much will that take and what if nothing comes up? There are still files they`ll not be able to get to.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that`s a good question. Right now, we don`t really have a timeline of FBI sources I`ve been speaking to said it could take days, even longer. But they are in the beginning stages of analyzing that hard drive from the captain`s flight simulator and forensics experts have been working on that at the lab in Quantico, Virginia.
It`s a very methodical process and complicated. My sources tell me that Malaysian investigators didn`t find anything of concern on the pilot`s hard drive or software, but they weren`t able to access all of it, presumably because they don`t have the same technology that perhaps we do. That`s part of what the FBI is going to be working on, trying to recover and rebuild bits and pieces of those purged files to create a bigger picture of what that pilot, that captain did on his simulator that he had at home.
I`m told that this hard drive does contain a large volume of data. Now, I`m not a tech expert but it contains at least a couple of terabytes according to sources, so that`s a lot. And that, of course, could delay the process and it could take longer for the experts at Quantico to retrieve that data and put together a full picture.
Also, we don`t know if any of the data was encrypted at this point, or to what degree the data was deleted. But as you mentioned, experts have a level of confidence that they will be able to glean some information --
BERRY: Well, something to get some information. But, you know, let`s keep in mind, these files were deleted back in February. It was like they were deleted four days or a couple of days before this flight took off. But, Jenny, a lot of wondering about these images. Keep in mind they`re four days old.
So, what took so long for them to figure out that this debris was there. I know you`ve been digging into that.
HUTT: Well, this is what I was trying before, is that because this area is huge, Lynn, gathering all the images and then taking them and distilling them down and looking through them and figuring out what is taking them a really long time, they have deep analysis and didn`t want to say anything I guess until they were relatively sure they have something, which is why I think this is going to be my plane. That`s my guess.
BERRY: You know, it also -- they`ve also said that this is something that took four days because they`re going through all of these images.
Anahita, I know a lot of families wondering here, waiting for word. They`re also going to be looking at legal action here. That`s already started to come up.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, Lynn, obviously people are talking about legal lawsuits going on and, of course, as you know, anybody can sue anyone for anything. Possibly they can sue the airline. They probably can also sue Boeing right here in the United States.
But before you even start thinking about lawsuits, you have to find out what happened. Are these people still alive? Was this negligence? Was this a criminal act? Was there some mechanical failure?
And I think right now, more than anything, these families just want answers. They want some closure. So, before we start running to the courthouse steps, we probably need to first figure out what happened here.
BERRY: And let me tell you, we are going to dig throughout this hour, especially on that human angle. Those families, keep in mind, there are 239 souls on board that flight.
Segun, a lot of questions coming in, a lot of people have been tweeting us. Zone of them being, could it be possible that this plane even reached that far south? Would it have enough gas to go that far? What have you found out about that?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no, what it seems is that the journalism in general and the media specifically should be ashamed of themselves because as this information is coming out, we`re speculating so wildly, if the five of us computers were checked, they would find deleted files. We`re trying to build facts where maybe no facts exist and we don`t really know what`s going on.
So, we`re trying to assume that this debris they just found four days ago could be the plane. But what it does to those family members who are holding out hope that people might still be alive is to lead them on a wild goose chase.
BERRY: I hear what you`re saying, Segun, but you got to keep in mind -- you got to keep in mind, when we have authorities coming out and saying we have found two pieces of debris that could be this plane, it is our responsibility as journalists to report on that and to talk about it.
Pamela, back to you. I want to ask you specifically -- hold on, I want to go to Pamela, because, Pamela, you`ve been talking specifically about these deleted files. I think -- you know, I have an iPhone. Sometimes my memory`s full and I delete things.
That`s also a factor here --
BROWN: That`s it. I mean, we routinely -- I routinely delete files and so forth. So, it`s too quick to jump to any conclusions and simply irresponsible to do so until we have more answers.
As one of my sources said, you know, what we glean -- what the experts glean from this hard drive could be insignificant from this process and tell us nothing. But, of course, you know, they`re doing their due diligence and throwing everything they have at finding out what`s on the hard drive.
Either way, it will give us answers. Whether there`s something on there that could provide clues or not, you know, it will give us some sort of answer either way as to what sort of intent, if any, this captain had.
BERRY: Pamela, thank you for that. I know you`ve been digging through your sources.
Thank you, panel.
And coming up next, our experts will answer your questions. You have a lot of them. You`ve been tweeting us nonstop about this missing plane, using that #370Qs.
And then a little bit later, we touched on this a bit. But just how these families are coping with the unspeakable -- two weeks not knowing.
Of course, it`s going to take a toll. We`re going to talk about that.
Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time is working against those looking for the missing Malaysian jet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Given this is such a vast, empty part of the planet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may be that they did try to send a signal and for some technical reason the signal was never sent or maybe the signal was sent and no one was listening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I seriously doubt that someone would try to land a jetliner in the water at night without lighting. Imagine hitting the water at 100, 200, 300 miles an hour. It`s going to make that airplane just splatter into pieces.
BERRY: So many different scenarios. We just don`t know.
Hi, everybody. I`m Lynn Berry, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight, alongside Jenny Hutt.
Jenny, you know, I don`t know about your social media, but mine has been flooded with questions about Flight 370. Theories, everyone has one about what happened to that plane, what they think happened. And we`re going to take your tweets live right now. So, get to your smartphone, your computer, whatever it is. Tweet us @DrDrewHLN. Use that #370Qs.
Joining us now, Samantha Schacher. She has been monitoring our social media. She`s the host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
Good to see you, Sam.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, YOUNG TURKS NETWORK: You look good in the big box.
BERRY: Thank you. Good to see you.
Martin Savidge is live looking a lot better than we do because he`s in a 777 simulator -- just looking at that, Martin, I`m fascinated.
We also have a great guest here --
HUTT: And I`m terrified.
BERRY: Yes, luckily, it`s a simulator.
F-14 pilot Carey Lohrenz joins us for some invaluable information. But first, I want to get to Martin because we`ve been talking about these scenarios, one of them an attempted water landing.
You can actually do that for us right now and show us what that would look like.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I need to backtrack. You can`t exactly do that. The reason I say that is the simulator has to be set up in advance for that.
The other thing I`ll point out is that to show that as this plane goes into the water, just by chance any of the families of this flight happen to be watching, and we wouldn`t want to do that.
HUTT: Oh, oh.
SAVIDGE: We can tell you that we can take the plane down near to where that impact would be on water, we can show you the alarms. We can show you all of that, but we`ve got to set it up ahead of time. So, I can`t do it right this second, but if you want to see it in a few minutes, we can make it happen.
BERRY: Martin, what have you heard about the possible water landing and whether or not that would have been feasible? Have you talked about that with the pilot you`re sitting next to?
SAVIDGE: Yes, Mitchell and I have discussed that at great length. You can describe at least what the basic parameters would be for that.
MITCHELL CASADA, PILOT: Yes, absolutely. A water landing is very dangerous, obviously. It`s the last ditch, no pun intended, effort, but to save the passengers. It`s a very -- the way they describe it in the textbook is you want to land this airplane at the minimum control speed. The slowest speed it can go and land it on the crest of the wave.
SAVIDGE: Remember now, you won`t have the landing gear down.
CASADA: Yes, you`re going to be landing on the belly but you want to land on the crest as opposed to the trough and carry you through. In reality, I don`t know how realistic that is. It`s very difficult to try to do that.
SAVIDGE: They called it the miracle on the Hudson, they called it that for a reason. It is miraculous you could bring a plane like that down and this plane is much larger than that plane.
So, you know, would you attempt if you don`t have a choice? Of course you would. But it would not be ideal. It`s highly dangerous.
The other factor you can`t control are what are the waves, what is the weather, what`s the sea state? If they`re really big, you kind --
BERRY: And, Martin, that`s part of the frustration here. That`s why so many people are writing in with questions. They`re using the #370.
I want to bring in Kevin who wrote this on Twitter. He asked whether or not there`s a possibility if this jet lands and the black box and communications systems are dismantled, can it be flown as a missile undetected by military or other radar?
Kerry, I want to get your take on this as a former F-14 pilot, is that possible?
CAREY LOHRENZ, FORMER F-14 PILOT: Well, Martin, do you want to go ahead and answer the first part of that?
SAVIDGE: You know, turning it into some kind of missile, you`d have to recover the aircraft and presumably if it did go down in the area where there`s debris and if it did, that`s at great depth. So the governments that recover an airplane at that depth are pretty few and far between. So I would say it`s certainly not going to be a terrorist group, that leaves the Russians and the Chinese or the U.S. I don`t think it`s likely.
BERRY: All right. Martin Savidge there for us. We appreciate it.
Coming up, we have an exclusive with a mother of a baby whose nose was bitten off allegedly by the father.
But coming up next, we have more questions about those missing plane. Keep them coming.
Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The weather is going to be a major determinant in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally, wind and currents will form long lines of debris. So, debris doesn`t form just one big lump. It gets spread out by the current and the wind. So, it will actually trap like a line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is kind of the garbage section of that area. It`s got currents that are constantly bringing things together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It means that there`s a lot of stuff in the water. Fortunately, most of the stuff is going to be small compared to a significant size component like described here, 24-meter sized component.
UNIDENTIFIED MAEL: The longer it goes, the further materials that are floating are going to disperse.
BERRY: That is key right there.
Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry. I`m in for Dr. Drew tonight. Good to see you. My co-host Jenny Hutt is with me.
And, Jenny, we`re going to talk about what might are happened to Malaysia Air Flight 370.
And Sam Schacher has been taking your questions for everything Malaysia 360, it`s 360qs.
What are some of the tweets that have been coming in?
SCHACHER: So many questions, so many tweets. This one coming in from Find the Missing.
Could debris be life rafts tied together indicating survivors?
BERRY: That`s an interesting question. I want to bring in former F-14 pilot --
BERRY: -- Carey Lohrenz, she`s back with us.
Joining us Christine Dennison, she`s an exhibition and logistics expert.
You know, that`s a good question, but, Christine, a lot of people asking why is this taking so long to get to this debris. It may be hard to put into perspective, but this is 1,500 miles off the coast of Australia. That`s the distance between Las Vegas and Chicago.
What are they facing here?
CHRISTINE DENNISON, EXHIBITION AND LOGISTICS EXPERT: Well, first, it is a very big ocean. This area in particular that we`re seeing right now, it`s not a very trafficked area. So you`ve got really deep water. At the moment I think they`re having better weather, but for the past few days, they`ve had terrible weather.
So everybody that`s been doing the aerials, the flyovers, that have identified that this is debris has had a tough time of it. And I think to a lot of people just sort of want these answers in it, it`s still going to be very slow going because of weather, because they`re still trying to get sort of eyes out there in place to actually visually see what it is that`s floating.
BERRY: Well, correct me if I`m wrong, even if they do connect that debris to Flight 370, the ocean is up to two miles deep in that area. We`re talking about the most isolated area in the world. So, even if they were to connect it, is there a possibility they could never find the actual fuselage of this plane?
DENNISON: You know, at this point what they`re seeing or the debris they`re picking up has floated from another area. You`ve got currents, you`ve got wind, you also have -- we`re going to the 14th day.
So whatever the point of impact was, you can bet that what`s ending up down here, there`s going to be more coming, moving around. They`re going to have to find the debris, identify it as part of this plane, if in fact that`s what it is. And then really examine it by picking it up, looking at it. What are the marks, how long has it been in the water?
And this is something that --
BERRY: It`s going to take time. A lot of time.
Carey Lohrenz, I know you wanted to chime in on this.
LOHRENZ: Right, right. I think for context, one of the things that we need to be really aware of -- and as you hear all the different questions and people thing, golly, OK, I get that it`s big, but I see the map. Here`s the swath, here`s the searchable area.
What`s taking them so long to find this? Well, if you haven`t ever spent any time on the ocean, what is very hard again to put into context is that absolute vastness, the distance of it. It`s huge. You can go for days -- I mean, we went for days on an aircraft carrier without seeing any land.
So, when you think how do you find a tiny piece of an airplane, for those old enough to remember the movie "Castaway" --
BERRY: Jenny, imagine you`re one of the family members and you`re hearing Carey say that and the hope that you lose a little bit of that hope, and you got to hope that they`re holding on to anything that they can.
HUTT: Well, that`s what`s so incredibly sad about this, Lynn, is that the longer it goes, the less likely the outcome is going to be anything even kind of OK. So, it`s heartbreaking because there`s no closure and this being in limbo, it`s unthinkable.
Especially add to it, Lynn, the fact that in China so many of the parents only have one child. It`s just --
BERRY: That one child policy.
BERRY: Exactly. And that`s what a lot of family members -- Sam, I know there are a lot of people tweeting.
BERRY: Sending their prayers to the family and just their thoughts.
SCHACHER: There`s a lot of thoughts, a lot of condolences. I want to read another tweet to ask our experts. This is from Elite Stuff. They ask, why won`t they add extra air marshals and station one inside the cockpits to watch the pilots. Pilots should always be watched.
What are your thoughts?
BERRY: You`re shaking your head, Carey. Why are you shaking your head?
LOHRENZ: No. Well, I think that`s pushing the limits of speculation. First of all, assuming that the pilots did something wrong. And there has been the idea back and forth from a safety perspective and the FAA of putting video monitors and cameras in the cockpit. It`s thousands and thousands of hours that you would have to capture, and it`s not realistic to do that.
HUTT: Also, in a way, Lynn, one bad apple can`t spoil the whole bunch. If one of these pilots was horrible and did something nefarious as we all seem to think or many of us thing, that`s tragic, but you can`t say that every pilot. Most pilots are good people.
BERRY: If you need additional security, we put our shoes through security because of what happened. We do think if we need to. We don`t know yet that we need to.
BERRY: But we`ve got to take a break.
Coming up next, the behavior bureau will talk about the emotional angle of these families, the strain of not knowing what has happened. We watch it, we see it. It is hard to watch. I mean, the pain is palpable.
And later, a lot of you have asked us and you`ve tweeted us, what about the role of psychics. We know they`ve played a role in other criminal cases. Can they play a role in this? Well, we are going to talk to one here on the show.
We`re back after this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve heard from family members is that they`re being cautious right now. They`ve had their hopes up, then crushed in the same day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m cautiously pessimistic that it`s not a piece of the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re all in one hotel. That`s where they`ve been watching television, that`s where they`ve been reading the news, watching social media, trying to find any bit of information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One psychologist telling me that some of the elderly here have even been having suicidal thoughts because they have one child on that plane because of China`s one-child policy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via translator):: I firmly believe that my son together with everyone on board will all survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: Welcome back. I`m Lynn Berry sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. Jenny Hutt, my co-host. As any parent would, you hold on to hope. You hope and pray for that outcome. We do as well. It`s now been 13 days since Flight 370 disappeared. And families of loved ones on board are forced to sit and wait for answers, Jenny.
HUTT: Yes. It`s harsh. I`m a mother, Lynn, so watching this, it`s just - -
BERRY: Sure. Unimaginable.
BERRY: Of course it is. And you have to ask yourself whether it`s healthy to have that sort of outlook or do you need to prepare yourself for the worst?
I want to bring in the behavior bureau to talk about that. Samantha back with us. Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30 Day Love Detox," and Leeann Tweeden, social commentator. You know, we all heard there family members are holding on to hope that they are still alive. And Wendy, my question, is it important to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario? Because authorities have said it`s likely this plane has crashed.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I think as time goes on, the realization that maybe this really is the end and it`s time to start a grieving process will take over, but not yet. Not in the short term. I mean, you think of people like Elizabeth Smart`s parents who -- she was kidnapped when she was 14 and they found her like what, 15 months later or nine months later, something amazing.
HUTT: Nine months later.
WALSH: They kept it up. So I think holding up hope feels like a way to stay connected. And until they have answers, most people will not begin the grieving process.
BERRY: And the strength that it must take. You know, three Americans were on board that flight. One of them was Philip Wood and his girlfriend did speak to CNN this morning. Her strength is striking. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It strikes me as just one more lead that may or may not come true. So it`s enough to make us all anxious again after a couple days of quiet, but you know, I`m cautiously pessimistic that it`s not a piece of the plane. I keep hoping that somebody took the flight for a reason, which means they would have preserved it and tried to hide it someplace, tried to take it someplace. So if this debris is indeed part of that plane, then it kind of dashes that wishful thinking to pieces. So I really hope it`s not a part of the plane. I don`t have a plan of what I`m going to do if he doesn`t come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: And that`s a reality here. You know, you hear stories coming out of those family members, the loved ones on board this flight. You know, Leeann, we talked a little bit about this -- families in China, they`re only allowed to have one child. So in many cases their only child is on that plane. How do you get your head around that?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Lynn, it`s awful. I think the human psyche is so strong. We want to believe that our loved ones are still alive. My husband`s a pilot. It`s your worst nightmare, something like this happening. And there a lot of people, a lot of my good friends are afraid to fly still because they just think, oh my gosh, what if something happens, what if we crash? But these people are holding on. And the problem is we know nothing. All they`ve been getting are lies and misleading things from the Malaysian government since Day 1. So I think that`s compounded onto their anguish and pain.
BERRY: Well, we should be careful to characterize them as lies. We don`t necessarily know that there are lies being put out there. It`s not enough information when your loved ones --
TWEEDEN: Well, they`re mixed truths.
BERRY: When your loved one is on board.
TWEEDEN: Right, true, the Malaysian government, though, has been putting out information that they keep changing and then they change back.
TWEEDEN: So I wouldn`t call them lies but they have been misleading everyone.
BERRY: So there`s a psychological process that happens here. And, Wendy, help us with this. When you`re dealing with two such different possible outcomes, a sheer miracle that they`re all alive, then the sheer tragedy that they`re all gone, how do you cope with that?
WALSH: You`re literally stuck in a no man`s land getting ready to really have post-traumatic stress disorder, but a lingering trauma. You`re in the middle of the trauma. But I want to say something else. I wrote a blog today that`s on the home page of my Web site about why we`re all scared, why we`re all glued to the TV screen, and what it is. It`s because we have replaced some of our mythology, some of the faith we have in other things that carried our ancestors of course across oceans not knowing what was there, we`ve replaced it in the gods of technology. And now the very gods of technology have let us down, the computers, the radar, the pilots, everything.
TWEEDEN: That`s a great point.
BERRY: Real quick, we do have to take a break, but Sam, I know you have an interesting connection with this pilot. Real quick, tell us about that.
SCHACHER: Yes, small world. My college roommate and dear friend, her father has been a pilot for Malaysia Airlines for decades. She`s from Malaysia. And I asked her via Facebook last night, because she`s still in Malaysia, if her dad has ever flown with the pilot or the co-pilot, and her dad has flown with the main pilot for years. And he says -- I really trust her dad. Her dad is a great judge of character. And from what he says, this pilot is as good as they come. He`s a great pilot, he`s a great guy. And he and the other pilots believe if he has any role in this, it`s only as a hero.
BERRY: And, you know, it`s interesting because there have been other family members and other friends that have come out and said the same thing. Sam, an interesting perspective there.
A lot of you asked us, you`ve tweeted us, what would a psychic -- what would they think about this. So coming up next we have one to tell us what she thinks happened to this missing plane. And the question -- should investigators listen? Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the past governments have used psychics to help with searches. Can they use a psychic here?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It may seem an odd question, but I know these people have been used in murder investigations on many, many occasions. Radiotweek: Investigators sometimes use psychics. Why hasn`t anyone considered the services of a credible psychic specializing in missing persons?
I mean, it sounds incredible, but they have been used before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: Good to be with you tonight. I`m Lynn Berry. Dr. Drew has the night off. I`m back with Jenny. And, Jenny, when I heard him talking about that, I saw your face. You were making a couple of them. What are you thinking?
HUTT: Yes, look, I`m all for wanting to believe in mysticism and psychics and stuff, and there are these tremendous stories where they figure things out, but eh, I don`t know, Lynn.
BERRY: You`re not alone. You`re not alone. Social media comments, controversies, skepticism surrounding the use of psychics to help find this flight are out there.
HUTT: If it works, great.
BERRY: A lot of people are out there saying that. Sam`s still with us, joining us as well though Lisa Williams, a psychic medium, and Les Abend, CNN aviation analyst, and a 777 pilot.
Lisa, I`ll start with you. Your theory here is that this plane landed somewhere, some of the passengers are still alive but the co-pilot involved. I`m going to start, first and foremost, with there are people at home right now that are going to shake their head at that, that are going to be disappointed that you would take that leap when you don`t have hard concrete evidence. What would you say to those people?
LISA WILLIAMS, PSYCHIC: Well, naturally, I don`t actually have hard concrete evidence. And I think any psychic who has hard concrete evidence can`t do their job correctly because they get misinformed. They get interpreted. And they`ll just work on what they know. So I tend to work off what I don`t know.
BERRY: So what goes to that? Les, you`re a naysayer when it comes to psychics, but they have been used in murder cases and a lot of criminal cases. What`s your reaction to what Lisa`s saying?
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, to what success, you know, with no disparaging Lisa`s profession. I mean, listen, I`m an airline pilot. I deal in black and white. It`s difficult for me to, in this particular circumstance, to think that a psychic could solve a problem that people all over the world are not able to solve at this point.
BERRY: And I think probably, Les, you`re not alone with that. Sam, you have a question for Lisa?
SCHACHER: I do. And I say why not? I want to hear what Lisa has to say. Lisa, you believe that --
HUTT: Of course.
SCHACHER: You believe this plane was hijacked and that some of the passengers are still alive. Do you have any idea where the passengers are being held if this is indeed true?
WILLIAMS: Well, this is actually an interesting question. Because I do believe that it actually crashed and I see a lot of trees. I didn`t specifically look into this for a reason, because I`m actually reading for some of the families` friends. So therefore I`ve only looked to it today and I saw them landing in a lot of overhang of trees. I kept feeling as though, yes, there are some people that have passed away because it`s only natural after these amount of days someone is going to cross with no food, no water, but I also believe there was a hijacking. And I think there is also a larger organization behind all of this that`s leading us off track to -- with this debris, I think they`re leading us off track. So therefore it`s all kept hush-hush.
BERRY: You know, Lisa, that`s your theory and there are a lot of people out there that have theories. Les, I`m curious what your theory is of what happened here?
ABEND: Well, you know, interesting enough, Lisa`s theory about airplanes potentially -- or the airplane crashing into a land-based area, that`s a theory that I very much believe in. I`m not sure what you`re showing right now on the screen may actually be airplane debris. I think we really should be looking in the jungle areas specifically. But my reason is much more methodical and more, you know, black/white type situation. I believe that these -- these crew members were heroes. And I think they were dealing with a situation that got out of control and they attempted to divert the airplane to a place to the west like has been shown all along.
BERRY: So Les, you`re talking more about that -- you`re talking more about that idea that there could have been a fire on the plane and that is what disabled the communication, is that what you`re talking about?
ABEND: Yes. A fire is the most plausible situation with smoke involved and so on and so forth. There could have been other problems with reference to hypoxia, maybe a windshield blew out, something to that effect. You know, or cracked and slowly caused a leak. But I doubt that situation. But any sort of mechanical problem that might have occurred, I`m thinking that the crew was fighting an issue.
BERRY: Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: So Lisa, do you think we`re going to get an absolute resolution? Do you think that they`re going to actually find out what really happened?
WILLIAMS: I think eventually you will find out. I think it will actually happen because I do actually believe that it`s actually going to be coming out. And I do feel like it will be coming out within the next three weeks for some reason. That`s just what I`ve just been told in my own witchy- woo-land. But I do feel that it is going to come out and I do feel as though there`s a lot of conspiracies that are going to be put to bed and we`re all going to really see the real truth very soon.
BERRY: Well, Lisa, I do appreciate you having a sense of humor about it, as well. Lisa and Sam, staying with me now. We`re going to have much more after this break. Stay with us.
BERRY: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry, I`m filling in for Dr. Drew tonight. I have Jenny, Sam, Wendy, Lisa all back with me. And a lot of people have questions surrounding the co-pilot. We`ve learned a little bit more about him. He`s a guy accused of letting two tourists into the cockpit during a 2011 flight. He`s 27-years-old, recently engaged. Had just upgraded from a VW to a Beamer. Friends say he was religious and serious about his career. He`s the son of a high ranking civil servant. He lives at home. Those are just some of the details that are coming out, but, Sam, I know you`ve been digging more into this. What have you learned?
SCACHER: Pretty much what you stated but in a more simpler sense, that he really was excited to start this new life with his girlfriend. He really was excited to start a family. And he was also quite religious, as you said.
BERRY: And I think that that`s something, Wendy, that you have to pay attention to. Because you go to whether or not this was a suicide mission. That`s something that authorities said they`ve been looking at. And whether or not somebody is happy in their life is a part of whether or not they`re capable of that, right?
WALSH: Yes, this is a big signal. And I also think we shouldn`t be necessarily overly concerned that he was letting tourists into the cockpit. Did you see the looks of those tourists? They`re pretty cute. I think that`s the terrorists` next goal, is to get hot chicks, and then they can get into any cockpit in the world.
WALSH: But my point is, that these -- in the olden days, remember, anyone could get into a cockpit just to see the instruments and look out the windows.
HUTT: That`s right.
WALSH: And probably he`s 27, he`s young, he`s full of testosterone. He`s like, sure, come on in, girls, have a look. So that doesn`t concern me. But he seems to be a happy guy, and I don`t -- from any of the reports I`ve heard, I don`t hear about any depressive symptoms.
And he looks a little --
HUTT: No, no, I`ve just been in a gazillion cockpits on airplanes. So I go every time I get on the plane.
BERRY: Jenny knows somebody who knows.
WALSH: We`re not surprised about that at all.
BERRY: Wendy, though, I know you have a question for Lisa. What was that?
WALSH: Lisa, you mentioned that you had a sense that some of the passengers have passed to the other side. I`m wondering if any of those passengers have talked, spoken to you, have you seen them? Are you aware as a medium that they`re there and what have they told you?
WILLIAMS: Well, it`s quite interesting because, as I said, I am actually reading for somebody tomorrow who is actually related to someone who is on the flight. I do believe that there is somebody who actually has crossed and I have actually communicated in that instant, I felt as though there was a lot of terror, a lot of fear and naturally there would be. But I don`t believe that everybody has actually crossed on that plane. And I do feel like it was a select few in the aircraft that were actually -- their life was taken from them. So I don`t believe that everybody is gone, but I have had communication.
BERRY: You know, Lisa, I did challenge you in the beginning saying that people were skeptical. But you know, Jenny, take for example all those people that are waiting and the torture it has been for the last 13 days. You know, if she is providing something, anything, regardless of whether it`s constructive, do you not agree that it can`t be a terrible thing?
HUTT: Well, look, I think it`s all up to personal belief. As I said at the beginning, I`m just unsure. But I`m uncertain about anything. I`m like an anxious person, so I`d love to hold on hope that somebody like a Lisa can tell me it`s going to be OK. I just don`t know. I just think we don`t know here. I don`t really think it`s damaging but I don`t think we know. That`s really it.
BERRY: And, Lisa, I`m sure you`ve -- say again?
WILLIAMS: That`s very normal as someone who is coming across who has never experienced this or is new to it. And I completely understand because I get skeptics every single day.
BERRY: Sam, I`m sure you`ve seen them.
WALSH: Hey Lynn, can I defend Lisa for a moment?
BERRY: Sure, go ahead.
WALSH: I have a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. I`m a heavy left brain person. I look for concrete facts. I look for scientific evidence. But having said that, I also have very prophetic dreams myself. So I do know that there`s another part, there`s some work that`s going on in our brains that`s definitely on another level that we haven`t scientifically quantified in any way. So who knows? And also I know that there are people who are highly intuitive, who are picking up all kinds of energies.
BERRY: And there have been a lot of people asking for that perspective, so we`re bringing it to you here. You guys, thanks for being with me.
We have more after this short break. We`re going to take your tweets after this.
BERRY: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry filling in for Dr. Drew tonight. Back with Jenny, Sam, Anahita and Lisa. You know, Sam, I know you`ve been monitoring all those tweets, #370Qs. What are you finding?
SCHACHER: Well, a lot of people are questioning the debris. So I wanted to ask Lisa, and we have a number of tweets asking Lisa what her thoughts are with the alleged debris in the ocean, if that could be the plane?
WILLIAMS: I`ve actually thought about this since I was asked the question this afternoon. And with anything, I do believe obviously with the current and what`s been going on and the way that the ocean is, I actually feel as though the plane -- it could be debris from the plane. But I don`t believe that the plane actually crashed into there. If you think about it, I kept seeing a plane land into the jungle. Anything could have happened and it could have been on a very tiny island where the ocean is either side of the wings.
BERRY: Anahita, you`re here. We haven`t heard from you yet and your perspective of what Lisa`s saying her theory. What`s your take?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think we should kind of put this into perspective, this whole thing with the debris. I think it`s one thing that the Australian government is coming forward, the authorities are coming forward, because they`re putting their credibility on the line, Lynn, and they don`t want to be wrong in front of the whole world. They`re investing a lot of resources into this.
But really, it`s one thing to be able to observe these things on a satellite image, another to be able to locate those pieces of debris. We might never find them. And then even if we do find them, we have to be able to prove that it came from this particular 777 flight. And then even if they do that, then they have to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and find out what exactly happened. S o I still think we have a long, long way to go here.
BERRY: Yes, exactly. Sam, I know you`re monitoring all those tweets coming in. You just got another one?
SCHACHER: Yes, I just got another one from John Wisniewski. I apologize for butchering names. He tweets, what about zombie plane theory?
BERRY: Here we go. All right, when we start getting into the zombie theories, that`s where I got to call an audible here. I don`t know.
SCACHER: No, there is actually a zombie plane theory.
HUTT: I think the zombie theory is that everyone was passed out on the plane and the plane was on auto pilot and kept flying like a plane full of zombies.
BERRY; That something happened that would prompt them to pass out. That`s another theory, the fire theory that that`s what shut down all of the transmission equipment, all of the communication equipment, and the GPS. But how many have been saying, is it`s 2014, how are we not able to have the technology --
BERRY: -- and the GPS to detect these. All right, you guys, thanks for being with me. And for you at home, thanks so much for watching. Don`t go far. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.