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Dr. Drew
New Disturbing Details About Skeletal Boy; Drunk Driver Rams Bus; Suspect in Stiletto Murder Talks; Mummified Twin Brothers Found in House
Aired April 02, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, death by stiletto. Is this high heel a murder weapon? The woman on trial says the $1,500 shoe saved her life.
Plus, 29 pounds, 5 years old, starved to the skin and bones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve never seen him look like that and I`ve never seen him with his shirt off recently.
PINSKY: Stepmom says don`t blame me. Hear more from her and our behavior bureau.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, this may be one of the wildest chases ever. Car rams a school bus then takes his pants off and tries to bum rush the school bus.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Is that how you drive every day, Dr. Drew, to work?
PINSKY: Well, generally, I pull my pants off when I`m in my car, not running around the street.
But more seriously, that story you got to see. We`ll show that later. But a 5-year-old boy weighs 29 pounds. Cops say he lived in a closet.
Tonight, his stepmother denying charges of abuse.
HUTT: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s an image that breaks your heart, but stepmom Tammy Blamayer (ph) says she`s not responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pregnant mother of six is charged with felony child endangerment, not just because police found this 5-year-old severely underweight, but because he was allegedly forced to live in a closet under the stairs. She shared this picture with us of this area under the stairwell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a small like square space that kind of slants down as the stairs so it gets smaller.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could a child fit under there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Possibly if it was empty, not how it is now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Samantha Schacher, socials commentator, host of "Pop Trigger", Vanessa Barnett, social commentator, host of HipHollywood.com, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of the Tom Boy`s podcast on blog talk radio.
Leeann, you first, your reaction?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I mean, it`s insane because I have a 7-month-old boy. OK? He`s almost 16 1/2 pounds. This is a 5- year-old child.
And I listened to this interview with this mother. A, I don`t think she should be able to reproduce any more. I`m sorry. She has sixth children and having a seventh one and she can`t even take care of them. And then she says, I don`t know, I haven`t seen him with his shirt off in a while.
I`m sorry, I am a mother. I see him off with his clothes like five times in an hour, when I`m changing his diaper, when I`m changing his clothes, when I`m giving him a bath.
She is a liar and she needs to be put in prison. I hope they put her in a little four-foot box and they starve her to death.
PINSKY: Anybody think she was neglecting the child because this was a stepchild? Vanessa? No?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I`m more concerned because are we not supposed to hear her side of the story? Are we instantly supposed to think she`s lying?
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: I can`t even fathom that a mother would do this, but I`m just blown away that there`s so much attention on her. What about this father? What about this biological father?
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: I am a mother. I have a 10-month-old child. And I think it`s disturbing -- my child is 20 pounds. It`s disturbing that that 5-year-old is only 29 pounds --
PINSKY: Let me propose something else.
BARNETT: There`s no excuse. Why aren`t you mad at the father?
PINSKY: I am to the father. But listen to this, Child Protective Services of Harris County has told Jane Velez-Mitchell that the boy had bleeding on the brain.
HUTT: Oh, my God.
PINSKY: Something they`re calling trauma to the abdomen, cuts and bruises. I`m beginning to wonder whether this child had some sort of very significant medical disorder that caused bleeding and weight loss like leukemia or something like that that these people --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m totally agreeing with you that they totally missed. Sam?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. No, even if that were the case shame on this mother for not -- OK, her excuse is that the father and the little boy weren`t living there, but they were visiting her. So when they were visiting you, when you saw that your son was emaciated at 29 -- stepson, was emaciated at 29 pounds, could not walk according to authorities, why wouldn`t that right there be enough for you to call the police or take him to the hospital? And why was the 5-year-old wearing a diaper, Dr. Drew?
BARNETT: I agree with all of that. I don`t think it`s wrong to chastise her and want her under the prison. She`s clearly wrong. No one is going to argue that.
But why are we putting so much attention on the mother and not on the father?
PINSKY: Vanessa, hold it. Leeann, hold it.
The woman, Jenny, filed for divorce today but refuses to blame the husband, Jenny, for what`s going down here.
HUTT: Well, first of all, this was her stepson. So I do think there`s something there. Second of all, she also said in this interview, Dr. Drew, that the closet had stuff in it but when they went to the house they saw the closet with the bed in it. So I`m not buying that either.
The reason we`re focusing on the mother is because she`s spoken out to defend herself. And typically, we just think a mother has that maternal instinct. And when it`s lacking --
PINSKY: Here`s a deal -- hold your thoughts. I want to bring in the chief -- I believe it`s the chief of police. He heads the Harris County Constable Precinct 4. He is overseeing this investigation.
Chief Herman, straighten this out here. What is your reaction to what you found in this story?
CHIEF MARK HERMAN, HARRIS COUNTY CONSTABLE: Well, first of all, there`s really not much to be straightened out. The facts are what they are. I think at the end of the day, everyone`s going to see the facts for what they are. This -- both defendants in this particular case, you know, even after our officers got on the scene and the stepmother fled the location prior to arrival, we had dialogue with her to bring the child back, she would not do it. They were both very uncooperative with us and we had to resort to other measures to recover the child hours later. And they did nothing to help us recover the child.
PINSKY: Do you know how the child is doing now? Does the child have a medical disorder? Even if we don`t imagine that they willfully starved the child, that they just missed -- the kid was sick, is the child sick?
HERMAN: Right. I can tell you that since his recovery, we have been in constant communication with the medical professionals that have been evaluating him. And we have more documents and more test results. I think what you`re going to see is more charges in the next couple of days, but we had just seated a new grand jury here in Harris County. We have a few more records to obtain. We`re methodically, slowly progressing through the investigation.
PINSKY: Chief, first of all, thank you so much for joining us here.
I think you`re telling us that you`re going to find that the worst of our suspicions are going to be the facts for this poor boy. Is that what you`re telling us?
HERMAN: I don`t know what your suspicions are, I`m just telling you there are more charges in my opinion that will be coming down, more severe charges. You know, currently, we`ve only filed child endangerment, but there will be some first degree felony charges coming out probably in the next couple of days. And we`ll let our district attorney speak more on that at the appropriate time.
PINSKY: Chief, I cannot thank you enough. But I must tell you, panel, I personally am nauseated.
TWEEDEN: She fled. So she knows she was guilty.
PINSKY: Listen, he`s telling us as much. So, ladies, you`re right. I`m trying to figure things out and make sense of it.
TWEEDEN: She shouldn`t be allowed to have any more children?
PINSKY: Well, what are you going to do? Abort the one -- she`s going to have another.
HUTT: Adopted, give the baby away.
PINSKY: These are tough issues. Yes, where`s the birth mother? That`s the whole another question.
SCHACHER: She`s there at the hospital.
TWEEDEN: And the dad is just as responsible, too.
PINSKY: He`s the one I`m really -- I`ve heard some stories and I`m concerned about him. We`ll see where the chief puts these charges.
Now, I`ll convene the behavior bureau and ask is there sickness here or is this an evil couple?
And later, liquor, no pants, ramming a bus, craziest police chase. Look, there he goes. Taking off again. Endangering probably hundreds of people on this child chase. You`re going to see it all after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police chief in Harris County, Texas, says he`s never seen anything like this.
PINSKY: Starved. Who would do this to a 5-year-old? Cops say his own parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a small 4x4 room under this stairwell inside this home in northwest Harris County, precinct 4 deputy constables say this boy was forced to live locked inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of our story has been very twisted. There have been things added to it, things changed. And, you know, there`s a lot of lies out there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and the behavior bureau. Sam Schacher, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, and Erica America, Z100 Radio personality.
Police say Tammy Blamayer and her husband Bradley starved that 5-year-old child, locked him in a closet. Tammy says no wrongdoing. She`s put him under the stairs there just like bad Ronald back in the `70s, if you remember that reference.
Listen to this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never seen him look like that. I`ve never seen him with his shirt off recently.
I don`t know what caused him to look like that. So I mean, I don`t know if it`s health issues or if it truly is something else, but I don`t want to be like everybody else and assume the worst.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, you heard what the police chief said. He said there are further charges coming. Kid has bleeding in his brain, starvation, still in the hospital, no medical explanations for this, all at the hands of the parents.
SCHACHER: Absolutely. And, doctor, also, the medical team that have been treating this little boy said that he is not sleeping well, he`s reacting to certain sounds. He`s fearful to certain sounds. And he`s acting on edge.
So what does that tell you? Is he suffering from PTSD?
PINSKY: Well, it could be chronic PTSD. Erica, what do you think?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes, this really, Dr. Drew, this pulls on my heartstrings because this little boy was literally starved of his childhood. And it`s so sad. Thank God it has a somewhat happy ending and that he is in medical care. But we`ve got to watch for emotional abuse and like you said, being scared of sounds and not being able to eat. There`s a lot of abuse, so really he needs a tremendous amount of care and support moving forward.
What this sounds like a very dysfunctional abusive family where somehow he was identified as the one to pick on and it`s a truly horrible story. And I don`t believe that woman for a second that she didn`t know he looked like that. She was with him when they were caught.
PINSKY: Judy, do you agree?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, of course, I agree, Dr. Drew. And this is just one of those situations where CPS again failed --
SCHACHER: Yes.
HO: -- again, because they`ve actually been there to visit. And, unfortunately, the other children actually weren`t suffering, so I think it was easier for CPS to actually walk away from it and say maybe the rest of the children are OK, too. But we do see where one child will be picked on within the family, whereas the other children are fine.
There`s a lot of reasons for it where the parents are fighting and they`re taking it on the child. And, remember, this child is not the woman`s biological child.
PINSKY: Right.
HO: There`s something going on there absolutely.
PINSKY: When children are raised not with their biological parents, they`re at risk.
Judy, what do you say?
HUTT: I was going to say, that also this child couldn`t walk, Dr. Drew. This child was in a diaper, Dr. Drew, and now in his -- while they`re trying to help him, he can only take in a hundred calories a few times a day. So doesn`t that mean he`s been starving a while?
PINSKY: Well, yes, it does. I mean, you can`t feed someone too quickly. They get metabolic problems from that.
Now, Judy, I want you to watch this. Anahita floated a battered woman defense. I`m going to get your reaction. Take a look.
Do we have that? We don`t have the tape.
What she said was that she thought that perhaps this woman was in a coercive controlled relationship and the real problem was the husband -- which I think could well be. Let`s just say I`ve spoken to some people in the community and heard they were afraid of this guy. Imagine you`re living with the guy, Judy, and maybe she was under the sway of somebody really problematic.
HO: And, Dr. Drew, I don`t want to take away from the women who really are suffering at the hands of men who are abusive both emotionally and physically, but also a lot of times we miss the women who are actually the key abusers, OK? Because we don`t think about them that way culturally. We always think about the men abusing the woman.
And guess what? There are just as many stories where the woman is the one in control and abusing the man.
PINSKY: Hold on. Stop there. Erica says no.
AMERICA: No, I`m just saying the denial is just so strong there that I do agree that I don`t thing that`s the case. I mean, if she could say, oh, I was being abused and he`s horrible. And I also think it`s weird timing that she`s divorcing him right now, maybe to distance herself from the situation.
And I do want to say one more thing. We are kind of coming down on CPS, but the police did a very good job there that they didn`t just leave the scene like in other cases we talked about. They tracked down the mother and the boy.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Because he was emaciated. They absolutely dropped the ball here in my opinion.
PINSKY: Let`s not forget there was a 16-year-old boy that really sort of the hero in all this, right?
SCHACHER: He was, absolutely.
PINSKY: That he took his father to task out on the front lawn.
SCHACHER: Can you imagine the fear he must have had with his father, too? He really showed a lot of courage to stick up for his little brother.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, we`ve got another crazy story. This guy, you`ll see in a second, is accused of forcing his 14-year-old sister, 14- year-old sister to snort heroin because she needed to learn a lesson. She needed to learn about heroin, how dangerous it is. So here, have a little hit here. We`ll talk about that.
And later, the so-called high heel murder trial. Is this how the crime went down? Like that.
SCHACHER: Ouch.
PINSKY: Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Jenny, Sam and Vanessa. And joining the panel, Mike Catherwood. He, of course, is my co-host on "Loveline", lovelineshow.com.
Cops say a 32-year-old man admitted to giving his 14-year-old kid sister heroin on at least four different occasions. He`s a pretty together guy. Claims he did it to deter her from using heroin in the future.
Mike, would you like deterrent like that?
MIKE CATHERWOOD, LOVELINE: No, all kidding aside, first off, heroin`s awesome. It`s a terrible drug and kills people. But as far as being a drug, it makes you feel awesome. It really works.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Deterrent, you were not to expose a young person to something that is rapidly addictive as a deterrent.
CATHERWOOD: Listen, addicts and alcoholics make tremendously bad decision, often make irresponsible decisions while using or not using, once they`re amidst their disease. But I feel like this man is suffering from some type of other affliction Dr. Drew. His dual diagnosis in some way, because in my experience, which is robust, no matter how much under the influence you are of your drug of choice or how amidst your disease you are, you never actively try to encourage other people that you care about to become a victim of that disease.
It`s usually, you know, your irresponsibility comes from neglect or --
PINSKY: Let me float another theory. Do you think has he trying to intoxicate and sedate her to God knows what?
HUTT: Oh, God, Dr. Drew! What?
PINSKY: The same guy that thought it was a great idea to give his 14-year- old sister heroin.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: I got to defend Drew. It`s not much of a stretch.
BARNETT: Being a drug addict, drug addicts lie, they make poor decisions, that they don`t do things that are smart. But, again, this is a situation of misplaced blame.
Why is this mother housing a 32-year-old heroin addict with a 14-year-old in the house? It`s not a good decision.
PINSKY: The boy, the boy is 32 years old. The mom is 57. Do that math, ladies and gentlemen. The girl is 14. Sam, what do you say?
SCHACHER: Yes, I think both the mom is to blame and the brother. I don`t buy the fact that he was obviously, as we`ve already discussed, that he was trying to prevent his little sister from doing drugs. He wanted a drug buddy.
You don`t go ahead and get high with your little sister four times on heroin in your own home, which is mom was aware of, by the way, and the fact that, I guess they also partied on 11 different occasions with different drugs. He sent her to school with two bags of heroin.
I think the mom being aware that her son was using in her own home not only was enabling her son`s drug addiction but setting up her daughter for failure.
PINSKY: The police actually recorded an interview with him where he said, quote, "he wanted to be able to control how much heroin she had so she would not overdose."
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: "Because when he was an addict, he wanted her to try it so that she knew how bad it was and then she would hopefully stay away from it."
That is his quote, Mike! That`s the quote from this guy.
CATHERWOOD: Again, with sincere clarity here, especially with heroin and other opiate-based drugs, addicts of those drugs don`t share like at all costs. He`s not going out of his way to get his little sister high so he can teach her a lesson. He`s going to guard that at all cost.
The only time junkies and addicts of heroin share their heroin is when it`s with someone they`re in a romantic relationship with. I`m just telling you. That`s the only time I`ve ever seen it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jenny first. Go, Jenny, what?
HUTT: I have an issue. I`m going back to the mother thing, Dr. Drew. As a mother, if one of my kids, God forbid, was a dope addict, that kid would be in treatment. I`d do everything I could. Certainly that kid wouldn`t be in the house with my other child potentially dosing my other child. Like the whole situation is --
PINSKY: It`s a mess.
HUTT: It`s maddening.
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: Any way that he really does believe he was trying to help her? I know crazy as it sounds but you know you catch parents catch their kids smoking, then make their kids smoke a pack.
PINSKY: Mike suggesting that maybe a second diagnosis here like something bad, something that`s sort of --
HUTT: Sinister.
PINSKY: Well, I said sinister. No, no, I was thinking sinister. I think, Mike, you were thinking more psychotic.
CATHERWOOD: I think he`s so mentally ill that maybe in some weird world or in his eyes that he was doing good. Because if he was just an addict, you don`t just -- you don`t actively try to encourage other people to use drugs. It`s not your deal.
PINSKY: Not when it`s opiates, and not unless you`re trying to get something from that person.
There are the charges against this guy. And hopefully more the come for this guy as well.
Thank you.
Next up, the $1,500 shoe at the center of a murder trial, was it part of a premeditated or planned killing? And later, this chase I keep talking about. It`s unbelievable. It`s got -- just a suspect, he`s got everything including a guy driving a car without his pants on, and a school bus and a crash and drugs and alcohol. Imagine that.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome back. Thank you for hanging out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see her doing it, yes. To me, she`s always been the aggressor.
UNIDENTIFIEID MALE: A blue suede platform pump with a 5 1/2 inch stiletto heel. This was the weapon, prosecutors say, Anna Trujillo used to murder her on-again/off-again boyfriend. Prosecutors also show the blood soaked jeans Trujillo was wearing that night, and this picture showing her bloody hands in handcuffs. Trujillo began to get emotional when the court played a recording of the 911 call she made last summer.
Quote, "He started beating me up and I couldn`t get away."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. The video of the suspect talking was from KTRK.
Back with Jenny, Sam, Vanessa and Leeann.
We are talking about this so-called stiletto murder trial. This woman was a former massage therapist. She faces life in prison if she`s convicted of murdering her so-called on-again/off-again boyfriend. Anna Trujillo said she hit him with the stiletto 25 times. She did so in self-defense.
I have now Joe Gomez. He`s investigative reporter with KRLD. Joe, can you bring us up to date?
JOE GOMEZ, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KRLD: Yes, Dr. Drew. We`re learning more about this 6-inch blue suede stiletto heel that 44-year-old Trujillo allegedly stabbed her boyfriend in the head with up to 25 times.
Now let`s go back a little bit. Police say after a night of heavy drinking and tequila shots at a local bar, they got into some sort of fight at his high rise because another man tried to buy her a drink.
She alleges during the fight that in self-defense she pulled out the stiletto and then stabbed her boyfriend in the head some 25 times killing him, 25. Now, is that really self-defense?
The latest in the trial now is that we`re learning more about the stiletto involved. Did it actually have a pointy end? Or was it a platform stiletto? Ultimately, in the end, does it really even matter? She could have stuffed a ballet slipper down the man`s throat. The fact is, Dr. Drew, the man`s still dead.
PINSKY: Right, Joe. Yeah, it`s just horrible. Joe, thank you so much for that update.
Now listen, ladies, first of all, I tried to talk Sam out of her suede stilettos, which are strangely exactly like Trujillo`s stilettos, evidently. But we didn`t -- I have here my a facsimile of a skull, and we`re gonna see what kind of an instrument this stiletto is. It`s pretty good.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ow. That was like too easy.
PINSKY: I must tell you from now on, I`m gonna think differently about women wearing these heels. I frankly --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it`s all weapons, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: It`s freaking me out a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can be.
PINSKY: And Sam, there was something with tarot cards. Can you tell me about that and a note found in the victim`s apartment?
SCHACHER: Yep, when the investigators searched the apartment -- well, for one, I guess a lot of the furniture was flipped over, clearly indicating how big their fight was. But the coffee table, on top of the coffee table was a stack of tarot cards. And the one tarot card that was flipped over, it read death. And then she also had a number of notes, and one of the notes read, "I ask for you and your spirit to be at peace."
PINSKY: And you think she wrote this or he wrote this?
SCHACHER: No, they believe that this was hers because it was next to her backpack. So they believe that this was her tarot cards and her note.
PINSKY: Vanessa, I was -- yeah, your disbelief. Tell us. What are you thinking?
BARNETT: What does that mean?
PINSKY: That`s what I`m trying to figure out.
BARNETT: That`s such speculation, oh, she had tarot cards. When do you admit tarot cards into court as evidence? Oh, she had a death card.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: One at a time. I`m having trouble hearing you guys because I`m concentrating on washing the watermelon blood off of my hands. I`m just saying. But, Leanne, the guy that knew her before the murder, the hotel manager. I think we saw a little video of him. And he said he saw red flags. Is that right?
TWEEDEN: Yeah, well, I mean, he said that he had rented a room to her for a little bit. And he said that he would talk to her and say, hey, you might want to be careful when she would talk about all the different men she had dated.
And he just knew something in his gut told him, oh, man, this girl`s a little bit crazy. And she`s like, yes, well -- and he just told her to be careful. And she said, oh, don`t worry. She took off her shoe and said, if anybody ever messes with me, I`m just going to stab them in the face. Now he`s saying she actually says this, and then she does it.
Now as far as the furniture being moved around, it`s a little suspect to me that all of the furniture was flipped around in the -- in the living room.
PINSKY: Like she did it? Like she set it up?
TWEEDEN: Yeah, like she did it after. But then the table was never moved that they found the tarot cards on. So she`s not very smart.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jenny.
HUTT: Yeah, well right there, see, initially I was like well maybe he was beating her up, Dr. Drew. And if that`s the case, that`s awful. Maybe she was so angry and so afraid, 25 times. But then when you look, if the room was like that and the tarot cards, it`s not looking so good for her.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sam, I`ll give you the last words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s all you need for reasonable doubt.
PINSKY: Yeah, I want to bring in a behavior bureaus to talk about it. But Sam, last thought.
SCHACHER: Yeah, I mean, there`s multiple reasons why I think she`s lying. I think number one, she didn`t have a scratch on her. Number two, I think the most telling bit of evidence is that cab driver was so alarmed by her anger and her behavior in the cab.
PINSKY: And her drinking.
SCHACHER: And her drinking, that she felt the need to warn Andersson of this woman. I think that`s the most telling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Drew, Tawny Kitaen beat her husband, her baseball-playing husband with her shoe, but she didn`t kill him and she did go to jail for a little bit.
PINSKY: She did not.
BARNETT: Angela Bassett, have you seen "What`s Love Got to do With It"? Tina Turner beat Ike with a shoe because he deserved it. He was whupping her butt. There is a defense here.
PINSKY: So my -- my -- my newfound anxiety about women`s shoes you are telling me is well founded. I just saw it kill a watermelon. Because you guys get a little angry with us once in a while, I`m just saying. Behavior bureau. I need them to make sense of this case. I`ve also got Dr. Bill Lloyd to give his thoughts about what went down here. I`ll ask him. There he is.
Later we`ve got a creepy twin mystery. His shoes are dangerous, too, I see. Creepy twin mystery. Two brothers found dead in their loungers multiple years after they had passed away. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m going to tell you something, I`m glad I have my hands on this thing. This is sharp object.
ERICA AMERICA: This is over-kill, literally. Such rage and such brutality.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did overkill. And it`s true she over-killed. It doesn`t mean it`s not a legitimate claim of self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To put out some kind of prevention pamphlet for how not to get together with somebody who might murder you in your sleep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Great idea. Back with Jenny, Erica, and Judy. Talking about the stiletto murder trial. Jenny, what?
HUTT: Dr. Drew. I think you need a behavior bureau. You`re very afraid of us now.
PINSKY: I`m just thinking about what I would be -- whether or not my own shoe would be an adequate defense against a stiletto.
Joining the behavior bureau, our favorite pathologist, Dr. Bill Lloyd. Dr. Lloyd, ten puncture wounds to the head, along the face, arms and neck. What are your thoughts on this murder?
DR BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: She got one lucky strike, Drew. As she tells this story, Ana Trujillo, that she was thrown over on the sofa, this larger man was overpowering her, and she grabbed the nearest weapon she could, which happened to be that Elton John shoe.
So there she goes with one quick blow. That was enough to upset him. Whether it caught him in the neck and maybe a carotid artery, the inside of the order (ph) where the bone is only paper thin, or as you demonstrated with Amela (ph), clanked right on the top of the head.
Vital structures, large blood vessels in all of those areas. So the gentlewoman is stunned. Professor Andersson is stunned and up he comes. And she gets to her feet right away to deliver the remaining 24 blows. So perhaps it`s a good story. "I did it once to protect myself." What about the other 24 times?
PINSKY: And Erica, you say the other 24 may have been she in this sort of dissociative or fugue state acting out in an uncontrolled way?
AMERICA: No, I actually don`t think that`s the case. I think this is actually passion and a brutal way of overreacting in the moment and killing someone. That`s very different than being in fear.
I mean, a lot of things add to it. I think the alcohol does, the testimony from the cab driver saying, "I`m afraid for you," for the man because she was so out of control, the fact that she didn`t have injuries. To me, this was maybe a personality disorder; maybe it was the alcohol-induced rage, but all things that make her accountable. I don`t think she was just acting in self-defense.
PINSKY: All right, OK, so Judy, Erica is building a case that there was substance and there was sort of Jodi Arias-like character pathology. I guess they were at a restaurant having drinks, got into a fight.
She -- he some -- I mean, if we buy her story about him, which may not even have been true, but let`s buy his story and say this man came at her a little bit physically. Dr. Lloyd says she swung the shoe. What about the other 29 swipes? It is that character pathology, would we not have to suggest that?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. In this case we have to look at the character pathology and also a pattern of behavior. This is definitely not the first time, Dr. Drew. It`s just the first time that we`ve heard about it. It doesn`t mean that this couple did not have violent --
PINSKY: Judy, let me slow you down. First time we`ve ever heard about it for this lady. Although we did hear somebody reporting that she`s threatened with the shoe before.
HO: Yes. Yes, I remember that she told a friend that if anybody messed with her, that she would get them with the shoe. But I actually think this couple themself, they`ve had a lot of altercations before. We just didn`t know about it. This is just not the first thing you go to. When you have a fight in a restaurant and you come home and you decide that you want to bludgeon your boyfriend to death.
PINSKY: I feel so much better now.
Dr. Lloyd, you -- I always talk about the hysteric response on this show. You know what I`m talking? When you see what a stiletto can do?
LLOYD: Yes, I do. But in a fugue state you don`t go around rearranging furniture. And they found blood on many surfaces in that condominium, not just in the immediate area of the sofa. So it suggests that there was more going on than just self-defense, a lot of foul play with or without a dissociative state. And there are clues everywhere that are going to be exposed during this trial.
PINSKY: And Erica, you`re shaking your head no?
AMERICA: No, no, I agree. The police report said that he bled out. So my question is, how much time went by before she called 911? Did she watch him -- you know what I`m saying? It doesn`t make sense. She was so eerily calm on the phone, just kind of like, oh. Not like, "Get here. He might die! I made a mistake!" Or "I was in self-defense." It was very odd.
PINSKY: And Judy, I think you`re seeing something really sinister at play here, yes?
HO: Absolutely. I think something else is going on that we`re not seeing that`s a long pattern. And just so that everyone knows they`re protected, I`m wearing my wedge today instead of my stiletto.
PINSKY: Thank you, Judy, I appreciate that. Judy and I can get together after and have a nice civil conversation, Dr. Lloyd. So I`m gonna be fine with her.
Erica, thank goodness you`re in New York.
AMERICA: Yes.
PINSKY: So anyway, thank you, guys.
Next up we have some chase footage you have to see to believe. The suspect at the center of it all claims he knows absolutely nothing about what happened. He almost immediately after that, he is amnestic of where he`d been and what happened. And remind you, you can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Mike and Erica. A man slams his car into a school bus then takes off his pants. That`s what anybody would naturally do if they hit a bus. Then tries to barge his way onto that bus pantsless. Police show up at the scene and then things get even -- well, that`s when things actually get weird. All caught on police dash cam. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Is that him? Is that him?
UNIDENTIFIED COP: He`s got a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Show me your hands.
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Looks like he`s veering off the road, intentionally crashing. He`ll be out. He`s in the water. Send EMS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you kidding me? Ramming a bus.
UNIDENTIFIED COP: That`s what I got a call about. That`s why I tried to stop you. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop me from doing what?
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Well, from hitting another car. They said you rammed a bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED COP: No, I wouldn`t joke with you right now. It`s kind of a serious situation right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s really heavy. A lot of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, he didn`t even know what he had done. Naturally, he could have killed himself. Worse, he could have killed someone else.
SCHACHER: Yes, prime example of how dangerous drinking and driving is, how dangerous that amount of excessive drinking is. But this guy is indestructible, Dr. Drew. Not only did he try to ram that bus, thank god everybody is OK, but he also tried to steal a jeep, he hit other vehicles. He led the police on a high speed chase on two flat tires. He then drove his car into a ravine of water. I mean, it`s a like a scene of "The Hangover" and if he were Allen, we`d all by laughing.
PINSKY: Erica?
AMERICA: Yes, I just want to say, this could have been a potentially really tragic situation had any of the children been hurt.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Of course.
AMERICA: But because it hasn`t, I first have to say I have no problem with someone not wearing pants.
HUTT: Me, too.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Mike would know.
AMERICA: But not while you`re also black-out drunk, carrying a gun trying to get on a yellow school bus and then driving into the water. So clearly, this guy had many problems.
PINSKY: So that takes Mike off your list.
SCHACHER: Mike knows. Paris story.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I was going to say that oftentimes when I`m driving thinking about you ladies, I take my pants off.
HUTT: Oh, Mike!
PINSKY: Jenny.
HUTT: But Dr. Drew, I`m surprised at the timing at which he took off his pants. I would have to say if it`s a conscious effort to remove your pants, then it`s OK. If it`s because you`re superdrunk and you`re ramming into cars, it`s unacceptable.
PINSKY: Well, he was -- people try to make sense of people who are intoxicated, on drugs. Give me the camera here. They try to make sense of people who are on drugs` behavior. Here`s how you make sense of it -- they`re on drugs. There`s no telling what they will do. When they are that drunk, the behavior is nonsensical. It`s erratic, it`s impulsive. And the only guy I`ve ever known who has done anything close to that is Mike Catherwood.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: And so, Mike, maybe you can explain what it feels like to be in that state.
CATHERWOOD: Well, it`s terrible. Not knowing how or why you did stuff is really -- it actually is really hurtful and it creates a lot of shame. But I always took my pant office in blackout states because I had really nice pants on. And I didn`t want to get them covered pee-pees (ph) or blood.
PINSKY: And there are some drugs make people want to take their drugs off.
CATHERWOOD: PCP.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: PCP, they will throw their clothes off.
CATHERWOOD: You get so naked on PCP.
PINSKY: Here he is, he`s intoxicated. Let`s take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you kidding me? Ramming a bus.
UNIDENTIFIED COP: That`s what I got a call about. That`s why I tried to stop you. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop me from doing what?
UNIDENTIFIED COP: Well, from hitting another car. They said you rammed a bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED COP: No, I wouldn`t joke with you right now. It`s kind of a serious situation right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s really heavy. A lot of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Erica.
AMERICA: Yes, I just want to say this guy was clearly blackout drunk. He had no recollection of what he did, meaning he could have shot the children. So don`t you think six months is a little bit little for his sentencing? What do you guys think of that?
PINSKY: These first so-called offenses are not always getting -- here`s my thing. Mike, back me up on this. The thing I say is you must refer for treatment because if you do not, this is going to happen again. Give him some consequence, and then require a sustained treatment for a long time after that. Like a year to two years. Boy, how much time he spends in jail I`m less concerned with. How much time they mandate treatment, and that never happens, unfortunately. Mike?
CATHERWOOD: Look, if a branch on a tree is rotting, you cut that branch off. But you still have to get to the root of the problem. And you can put this guy in jail. He deserves it. He`s acting dangerously and he put a lot of children in danger. But after his serving his time, you have to make sure -- or during -- that you get to the root of the problem. And that is excessive alcoholism.
PINSKY: Or he will use again. People do not understand that. Deterrents do not work very well with severe addicts.
CATHERWOOD: Drew.
PINSKY: What`s that, Mike?
CATHERWOOD: I want to stick up for this guy a little bit. In his defense, he`s got great calves. I mean, you guys got to say.
HUTT: Oh, Mike!
CATHERWOOD: I mean, beautiful.
HUTT: You couldn`t even see them.
SCHACHER: Yes, he gave good calf.
PINSKY: Let me say this about that -- nothing. Next, mummified twin brothers found together in their favorite chairs years after they had passed away. Twin thing? Something else? We`re going to get into it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Police and neighbors say the twins lived the lives of hermits and kept to themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to start communicating a little better and checking on one another.
REPORTER: Police tried to check on them in 2011, but no one came to the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s sad.
REPORTER: The questions left about how long these men sat dead in their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t really know much about your neighbors and what little you do know you might not want to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Leeann, Mike, Sam and Dr. Bill Lloyd. The so- called mummified remains of identical twin brothers have been found side by side in their living room recliners. Police estimate they may have been dead for as long as three years at least. Cops visited the house several times to check on the pair, but the Chattanooga Police Department says, quote, "There were no obvious pressing circumstances that would allow officers to force entry to the residence on any of the calls. "
Yes, Leeann, what do you think about this? Dead three years, nobody checks on their neighbors?
TWEEDEN: One of the sisters of the twins said she went to the house but she didn`t have a key, so she left. I`m sorry, even if I had hermit brothers and I went to their house and nobody came to the door and I probably knew that they lived there, I would have broken in, I would have broken a bedroom window and tried to crawl in or I would have taken a crowbar to the front door. And you would do what you need to do to check and see if they`re OK.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jenny, your brother goes away, goes missing for three years, you come by his house, look in the window, oh, well, nobody here.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, the whole thing is like someone`s biggest nightmare that I could die and no one would know I was gone. It`s like that kind of thing. No one checked on the grocery store they used to go to. They had no regular -- they had to have somewhere that they went or got stuff from. It`s very strange, the whole story.
PINSKY: And the post office stopped delivering the mail. They put the house up as so-called vacant. Bill, your theories on the cause of death and why the -- they found a 12-pack of Coca Cola, why you felt that was important to the investigation?
DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: Yes, these identical twins were both severe diabetics, which is very interesting. Diabetics shouldn`t be drinking Coca Cola. So it may be an issue related to their medications. Perhaps they overdosed on their diabetes medications. Perhaps they both decided to stop taking their diabetes medications.
PINSKY: So you`re saying like a suicide pact between them?
LLOYD: They could have had a death pact. There`s no frank evidence of any kind of foul play. So perhaps they both decided to check out.
PINKSY: You know, all I`ve got is my clinical experience, Bill. And, Mike, you`ll love this story. About 30 years ago, these gentlemen are long gone. I saw a pair of twins, identical twins, that both had schizophrenia or some sort of severe psychotic condition. And we attempted to interview them and they sort of look at each other and share knowing glances. The police found them, they`d been in their home for as long as five years without anybody entering in the house. The police had to get to their beds using a shovel, shoveling through the human, cat, and dog feces. Thank you, Mike, thank you for the touchdown sign.
CATHERWOOD: Why do you assume I would like that?
PINSKY: It seems like your kind of story.
CATHERWOOD: That has nothing to do with these three, Leeann and Jenny and Sam naked. That`s all I care about.
PINSKY: And the rats living in the apartment with them, the apartment was a house, were as big as the cats.
CATHERWOOD: Wait, for both you doctors on the panel, what makes someone mummify as opposed to just decomposing? Why do they --
HUTT: That`s a great question.
PINSKY: That is decomposing, but Dr. Lloyd.
LLOYD: There`s a normal timeline after you die, you first inflate, and then you begin to decompose and deflate. So by the time they found them, they said they were mummified. Little early to be mummified. But most of the fat in the body was gone, most of the organs had shrunk up and disappeared. The skin had essentially turned to leather.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Oh, Leeann.
TWEEDEN: Years ago I was driving back to my house in L.A. I was on the cell phone with my dad who lived in Virginia. And I remember my phone had just died and I saw it was beeping and I went, "Oh, dad, oh, my god." And it went off. I was unloading my car back into my house and I forgot that that I was going to call my dad right back when I got in the house. All of a sudden, ten minutes later, I had a knock on the door. It was the police. My dad was so worried about me. He thought I was in a car accident. He called police to go to my house and check up on me.
HUTT: Perfectly reasonable.
PINSKY: As opposed to leaving your sibling mummify for three years. Quickly, maybe back to a previous story, let me quickly throw a tweet up there from @wyattash. This is, for the men in the group, shoes look dangerous but I`m not homicidal. No worries. So the Gallagher plan that he ain`t going to work.
CATHERWOOD: But isn`t that young lady --
PINSKY: Mike, I got to go, I`m sorry, got to interrupt. "FORENSIC FILES" are next. Tonight, shoot to thrill, deception, greed, and murder for hire figure into a father`s death. Mike, want to slip it in in five seconds?
CATHERWOOD: The lady, she was Trujillo. All Mexican women hit you with their (inaudible).
PINSKY: We got to go. Next.
END
