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Fort Hood Shooting; Despite Tough Gun Rules; Interview with Peter King; Coverage of the Senate Arms Services Committee
Aired April 03, 2014 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We want to take you back to Fort Hood, Texas, now, because, as you know, late yesterday afternoon, three people on post were shot and killed. We know very little about the victims as of yet and the 16 others who have been injured in yesterday's attack. Brooke Baldwin is live at Ft. Hood this morning.
Brooke, do you see investigators at work yet?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning.
Let me just set the scene for you because I'm sure you can see the massive media presence over my shoulder. Just beyond that, that is the main entrance here to Fort Hood to get on to the post here, just outside of Killeen, Texas. And so I have not, with my own eyes, seen investigators, but I have to imagine really ever since the shooting broke out right around 4:00 local time here, you know, investigators, folks on base, have really been trying to put the pieces together and reconstruct exactly what happened.
This involved two separate buildings. And we're also learning this morning that Ivan Lopez, this Army specialist, 34 years of age, who was the shooter, who ultimately took his own life in addition to that of three other people, had apparently been assigned to some sort of logistics post, responsibilities involving one of the buildings in which those shootings took place. So that's what we're just learning this morning.
Here are a couple other bits of information on this young man. Father of a young three-year-old. A husband. And had just come here to post at Fort Hood in February, Carol. So that's really the latest we have here on base. But the big question is why? Why did he do this?
COSTELLO: Exactly. And, Brooke, I want to bring in Congressman Peter King right now.
Welcome, Congressman.
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Thank you, Carol. Thank you very much.
COSTELLO: Thank you for being with us.
Have investigators totally ruled out domestic terrorism in this case? Do you know?
KING: Terrorism has not been ruled out. Right now there are no indications of terrorism. But I can tell you that all avenues are being explored. And until it's officially ruled out, it's still, you know, technically possible. But I have to say, right now there are no indicators of terrorism at all. But it's still probably too early to rule it out entirely. But right now it looks as if it's not going to be terrorism.
COSTELLO: It was interesting that we, and I'm generalizing here, tend to jump to terrorism when it probably, most likely, was mental illness that prompted this attack. Specialist Lopez was being evaluated for PTSD. He was suffering from depression and anxiety. He was taking anti-depressants. Should we be paying more attention to mental illness when it comes to these attacks?
KING: yes, there's two issues. One, we should still be very concerned about terrorism. Fort Hood was attacked once before and there was an attempted attack in July of 2011 that was stopped by Private First Class Abdel (ph). So terrorism is a real threat. And I did a hearing into the threat within the military.
Having said that, mental illness among our veterans, returning warriors, is very significant. There's hundreds of thousands suffering from PTSD. There's a significant number of suicides committed every day by veterans.
It's an issue I've been working on with (INAUDIBLE) bipartisanly (ph) with Congressman Steve Israel and even some elements of Major League Baseball to try to coordinate the Veterans Administration and private foundations, private groups, private hospitals who want to work with these returning veterans because I don't think we're putting enough effort into it. We have to look at it much more carefully. Even though Specialist Lopez was only in Iraq apparently for four months, you don't know what a person sees when you're there. You don't know what that triggers.
And we have to, I think, find a way to speed up the process. I heard General Honore was on CNN earlier today talking about how long it takes someone to actually be classified as having PTSD. So I think we have to make it - again, we're way ahead of where we were in World War II and Vietnam, but more has to be done as far as mental health of our military.
COSTELLO: And, Congressman, I want to bring Brooke Baldwin back in. She's at Fort Hood.
KING: Sure.
COSTELLO: And suicide is a big issue at this post, Brooke. And it's part of the reason that soldiers aren't allowed to carry their personal weapons on post, right?
BALDWIN: That's exactly right. And, Congressman King, nice to talk to you as well.
KING: Hi, Brooke.
BALDWIN: You know, here at Fort Hood - here at Fort Hood and elsewhere in the country, suicide is most definitely, as we've been reporting in so many years, an issue among members of our military. But, you know, and I was explaining earlier, and Congressman King, I'd love to hear your thoughts, you know as we talk about this, we know it happened at the Naval yard in Washington, D.C., last year.
You know, part of the issue here on base is and on post is that you are not allowed to bring your weapon on post. You have to keep it at home. If you have that, you have to register with a commander. I know that, you know, security folks are allowed to have it and law enforcement here on post are allowed to have it, but that's it.
Do you think that that is fair because I'm sure there are members of the military that say, I'm going and I'm serving my country in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, is it fair that I cannot be armed on post?
KING: Well first, I think we should look into increasing security both at checkpoints and also at, you know, is more security needed within the base itself. As far as carrying weapons, I think we should look at that. But I remember just from my days in the Army, there's a certain element of discipline involved, people living in close quarters. You have a situation where in the barracks on a Saturday night you may have arguments, fights, whatever.
And I just - I would like to talk to the sergeants, the NCOs, the officers and people on the ground to see if they feel that would interfere with the discipline that they need, with the control they need. But I agree with you, I mean, if you have such a large base and people can walk in apparently with weapons, should those on the base be allowed to defend themselves? But before we go that far, I would really want to look at it. Again, I'm just going back, because this was a long time ago, but just on base, I don't know if I would have felt comfortable if the guy in the bunk next to me had a gun and we just had an argument or a discussion.
So -- and also with NCOs and sergeants, they have to be pretty tough on their troops at times. Again, do they want those men and women to be having weapons with them at night after something like that occurs? But again, to me, it's something we have to look at. We have to open it up. This has to be reopened because there's all the factors I just gave which could be negative. On the other hand, if someone had had a weapon yesterday, you know, they could have stopped this perhaps, you know, right away. So, but, again, we have to open it up and look at it, yes.
COSTELLO: You know, last night, congressman, you said in an interview that if military personnel really wanted to commit violence, they probably have the capacity to do it. So that said, how are we left to keep our men and women on base safe?
KING: Well, I think we have to do better screening as far as psychological testing. We have to make sure that the people on the ground, the platoon sergeants, the company commanders, that they are watching very carefully for any signs of mental illness or any type of psychological disturbance, any cases of anger management.
And that is being treated, I think, more seriously than it has up till now. And also I think as far as getting on to the base, we have to, while probably someone can always get a weapon on, we should make it as difficult as possible. If we are going to restrict weapons, then we have to make it as strict as possible that they not be allowed to bring them on the way, obviously, Specialist Lopez did. But this is a complicated issue, and that's all the more reason why we have to address it and address it openly and take nothing off the table.
COSTELLO: It -- one last thing, congressman -
KING: Sure.
COSTELLO: Because I think it frustrates many Americans. We always talk about dealing with the issue of mental illness in this country and nothing happens. There have been so many instances of a mentally ill person who somehow got a hold of a gun and then participated in a mass shooting and no law changes, nothing happens, nothing changes.
KING: Well, in the military, we are getting more money appropriated for more programs for mental health, suicide prevention, for PTSD. That is being done. But not enough. I think much more has to be done. We also have the issue of the National Guard and Reservists who don't get the same level of treatment as far as mental health that the regular Army does. So that has to be increased.
And that's what -- I've been working on that. But, no, this is an issue which it's hard to get people excited about it, or enthused about it - I hate using that term, focused on it until something like this happens, then they realize the importance of it. So if something good can come out of this tragedy, let's use this as incentive for much more (INAUDIBLE) mental illness, especially within our military.
COSTELLO: Well, I hope that happens this time.
KING: Yes, I agree.
COSTELLO: Congressman Peter King, Brooke Baldwin, thanks to both of you.
KING: OK. Carol, Brooke, thank you.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the possibility of domestic terrorism strikes fear into the heart of so many, but is the real challenge treating mental illness in our own children (ph). We just talked a lot about that. We're going to talk more about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: For the second time in five years, Fort Hood has been attacked by one of its own. The first incident was in 2009 when Major Nidal Hasan shot and killed 13 people and wounded 30 others. After that tragedy, the post put into place some of the strictest gun rules of any military base. Soldiers are not to be armed on post. Soldiers cannot carry privately owned, personal firearms. Soldiers must register personal firearms with their commanders and keep those weapons in an arms room.
Well, let's talk more about this. I want to bring back Brooke Baldwin. She's live outside of Fort Hood. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is here and CNN military analyst Major General James "Spider" Marks.
Brooke, I want to start with you. Those rules were supposed to keep soldiers safe, but they obviously failed. What are people saying about that this morning?
BALDWIN: You know, I talked to an Army major this morning actually over breakfast and I asked him exactly about, you know, these -- the protocol, and I'm sure Barbara Starr can really add to this from the Pentagon, but you know, you cannot, as a member of our military, come on to post here at Fort Hood even if you have, you know, rightfully owning your own weapon, in this case, a .45 semiautomatic pistol. You have to register it with your commander. You have to keep it at home. You cannot be on base with it.
COSTELLO: Brooke, Brooke, I'm sorry, I have to interrupt you. I want to take people to Washington in the Senate Armed Services Committee. General McHugh is speaking. He's the secretary of the Army. Let's listen.
GEN. JOHN MCHUGH, ARMY SECRETARY: Happened just yesterday afternoon at Fort Hood. As I know you all understand, any time the Army loses a soldier, we all mourn when that loss comes at the hands of another soldier. And indeed, when that event occurs at the very place that suffered so much pain, so much anguish just four and a half years ago, it only adds to the sorrow and the all-consuming sense of loss the Army is feeling this day.
Our first responsibility, as I know you share, is to the families of the fallen. Also to those, of course, who have been wounded and those close to them, their family, their loved ones, as they make their way, hopefully, on a road to full recovery. Our thoughts and prayers, but most importantly our actions and our every effort will be with those families, will be with those survivors, whatever the struggle. We have ordered all possible means of medical and investigatory support, as well as added behavioral health counselors.
I want to give a tip of the hat to V.A. Secretary Rich Shinseki who immediately reached out and offered any support from the Veterans Administration in respect to needed personnel and in speaking as both the chief and I did late last evening to Lieutenant General Mark Milley. For the moment, the immediate needs seem to be met, but we're going to monitor that very carefully.
As I know all of you recognize, this is an ongoing investigation and one that occurred just 15 or so hours ago. And even at this point, the circumstances remain very fluid, but we recognize we owe this committee, particularly, but also this Congress the facts. What we know and when we know it. And I want to promise all of the members here this morning that we will work with you as we go forward together so that we can effectively -- you can effectively discharge your oversight responsibilities. If I may, Mr. Chairman, I would also like to take a brief opportunity to say to the Fort Hood community and to the Army family worldwide, this is a time once again to come together. To stand as one as they have so many times before drawing strength from each other. As this committee knows so well, the past 13 years have been fraught with much loss, with much pain, much suffering.
But through it all, men and women of the United States Army, their families, the civilians who support them, have come through the storm together. And I know as we have in the past, we'll come out the other side of this tempest poorer for the losses but stronger through our resolve.
Mr. Chairman, I can take a moment now to give you the updates that you requested and then defer to the chief for the purpose of the posture statement if you'd like.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be fine. Thank you.
MCHUGH: Based on our discussions last evening with Lieutenant General Mark Milley and a subsequent conversation I had about 10:45 with the Secretary of Defense, these are the facts as we understand them, but again, things are changing even at this moment.
The specialist, the alleged shooter involved joined the United States Army in June of 2008 when he first enlisted in the Army. He was an 11 Bravo. That's an infantry soldier, as most of you know. He later, upon re-upping transferred his MOS to an 88 Mike truck driver. We are tracking at the moment that he did have two deployments, including one four-month -- approximately four-month deployment to Iraq as a truck driver.
His records show no wounds, no involvement -- direct involvement in combat, as General Milley said. No record of Purple Heart or any injury that might lead us to further investigate a battle-related TBI or such.
He was undergoing a variety of treatment and diagnoses for mental health conditions ranging from depression to anxiety to some sleep disturbance. He was prescribed a number of drugs to address those including Ambien.
He was seen just last month by a psychiatrist and he was fully examined and as of this morning we had no indication on the record of that examination that there was any sign of likely violence either to himself or to others no suicidal ideation. So the plan forward was to just continue to monitor and to treat him as deemed appropriate.
The alleged weapon was a .45 caliber that the soldier had recently purchased. He lived off post. We try to do everything we can to encourage soldiers to register their personal weapons even when they live off post we are not legally able to compel them to register weapons when they reside off post but the minute that soldier brought that weapon onto the post it was not registered and it was under our rules and where it's being utilized obviously illegally and with not proper clearance or foreknowledge by the command. He is married. His wife was being questioned the last I was informed last evening. They are natives to Puerto Rico. again the background checks we've done thus far show no involvement with extremist organizations of any kind but as General Milley said to me last evening and I know the Chief and I fully support, we're not making any assumptions by that. We're going to keep an open mind and an open investigation and we will go where the facts lead us. And possibly extremist involvement is still being looked at very, very carefully.
He had a clean record in terms of his behavior. No outstanding bad marks for any kinds of major misbehaviors that we are yet aware of.
So you know the conditions of those who were involved in the incident. There were three victims who have tragically lost their lives. The other killed in action in that -- in that moment was the shooter who took his own life when confronted by a military police officer, a female; 16 others wounded, three that were considered critical, the others bearing severity but considered by and large stable.
But we obviously are going to continue to make sure they get the best of care because we want to ensure absolutely that no bad thing comes out of this more than already has. So that is pretty much what we know at this moment, Chairman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, Secretary.
MCHUGH: And if it's appropriate I'll yield to the chief for the posture comments.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General.
GEN. RAYMOND ODIERNO, U.S. ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF: Chairman, if I could just add a few comments. First, once again, we talk a lot in the army that we have an army family. We've lost young people who are part of our army family. We take that incredibly serious.
For me this hits close to home. I've spent a lot of time at Fort Hood personally. I was a brigade commander, division commander and corps commander at Fort Hood. I understand the resilience of that community, the resilience of the people there, how proud the soldiers are of what they do. And we will do everything we can to ensure they continue to move forward.
I would just say that I believe that some of the procedures that have been put in place following the incident four and a half years ago did help us yesterday. The alert procedures that were in place, the response, the training that has gone into the response forces that responded I think contributed to making this something that could have been much, much worse. So we will continue to monitor the force of the army and the resource of the army will be behind Fort Hood.
We are very confident in the leadership of Mark Milley who as I think as many of you know just returned from Afghanistan as the commander of the Corps over there. He's a very experienced commander and we will continue to support them. The only thing I would add to the facts that the Secretary provided that this was an experienced soldier. He spent actually nine years in the Puerto Rico National Guard before coming on active duty. So he was a very experienced soldier, had a one year deployment to the Sinai with the National Guard. And then had a four month deployment in Iraq -- it was the last four months at the end of 2011 from August to December 2011.
We will continue to work through this issue and continue to investigate. As we do that we will provide information to all. The only other thing I'll say, this great inter-agency cooperation, the FBI has provided significant assistance as well as the state of Texas as well as the veteran affairs as the Secretary pointed out. So we'll continue to work this. We have an incredibly talented, resilient army. We'll be incredibly -- we'll continue to be incredibly resilient and move forward but we will also reach out to our families -- the victims and the families of the victims of this tragic incident.
That's all I have. If you want me to continue, I'll continue with my statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. I think that would be appropriate to give us now your posture statement.
ODIERNO: Chairman Levin, ranking member and all other members, thank you so much for allowing me to speak with you this morning. I first want to thank you Chairman for your 36 years of service and all you have done for us as the chairman of this committee -- your leadership, your bipartisan leadership always supporting our soldiers and families and also holding us accountable for doing what's right for our soldiers and for our national security. I want to thank you sir for that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I very much appreciate that. Thank you.
ODIERNO: Despite declining resources, the demand for army forces --
COSTELLO: All right. They're going to return to the business of the day at the Senate Armed Services Committee. They're going to talk about, you know, general items like spending for the military and things like that. We're going to step away and try to determine what this all means, what we heard from these two generals.
So let's bring back in General Spider Marks, Brooke Baldwin at Fort Hood, Barbara Star is at the Pentagon. General Marks, I want to start with you because we learned a lot, right, from General McHugh. What struck you?
GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Secretary McHugh, indicated -- he laid out the details and reiterated what Mark Milley had indicated last night at his press conference. What we realize is that primarily we're going to get to the bottom of what happened and why it happened. There's already an ongoing very deep investigation. I can tell you, they know more about Specialist Lopez now clearly than they did before. We'll be able to start to unravel why this took place.
But I think what General Odierno indicated is that as a result of what we learned from the shooting in 2009, Fort Hood was able to more readily respond and be in a position to be postured to mitigate the challenge. The real issue now how did this soldier with admittedly some mental issues and challenges was able to get a weapon on post and be able to do this heinous act?
Frankly it's not difficult if you want to do something like this to make it happen. And clearly he just demonstrated that.
COSTELLO: Barbara, what struck me is when the General was describing what this man was going through -- he was depressed, he had anxiety problems, he had sleep disturbances. In the last month, he saw a psychiatrist although, you know, they saw no indication of likely violence. And the plan forward for him was to monitor him. It sounds so familiar to me like what happened at the U.S. Navy Yard.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: A little bit different perhaps because it's not at all -- it's not clear to us yet how deeply his problems were actually noticed -- Carol. I take your point. One of the things that jump out at me from what Secretary McHugh said. He said the soldier was on a number of different drugs -- prescription drugs including Ambien. Now this has been a continuing issue in the U.S. military. I'm sure General Marks is aware of it.
Soldiers and in society as well -- people getting multiple prescription drugs, perhaps not taking them right, going off of them. Ambien, as we know, many reports that it has a lot of effects, a lot of side effects. Look, we don't know if that was part of it here. But in the military, over the years, there have been stronger and stronger controls on multiple prescription drugs for troops, especially those troops suffering from post-traumatic stress or traumatic brain jury. It has been a significant issue.
So I feel confident that's going to be one area they're going to look at. What drugs was he taking? What interactions were there? Was there potential for abuse of the prescription drugs?
So they're going to be looking at all of these issues about behavior and what was noticed. One of the most interesting things perhaps since the 2009 incident at Fort Hood is the military came to understand it didn't have enough assessment of soldiers when they came home from deployment about whether they might be - there might be indicators, if you will, that they could engage in violent behavior.
