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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Motive Remains A Mystery; Three Vessels In Underwater Search For Flight 370; Sheryl Sandberg Doubles Down On "Lean In"

Aired April 10, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HURT: Maybe if he had more friends or somebody to help him out or to like show him a different path, maybe it would have been different. I just hope that one day I can forgive him and everyone else who got hurt can forgive him. Most of all, he needs to forgive himself.

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BROWN: And Jake, the school resource officer who helped subdue the suspect spoke right outside the school today saying the 20 students that were wounded were like his own kids, saying he's known them for ten years and we've been seeing people come here to the school today putting flowers down saying prayers and clearly the community is very shaken up, Jake.

Meantime, the suspect remains at a juvenile detention center and he was denied bail yesterday. This investigation continues. Still a lot of unanswered questions as to why he allegedly did this year yesterday.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Pamela Brown in Murrysville, Pennsylvania, thank you so much for that report.

Also in national news, former IRS official, Lois Lerner pleaded the fifth when asked to testify about allegations the IRS targeted conservative groups that wanted tax-exempt status and today in a party line vote, the House Oversight Committee voted to hold Lerner in contempt of Congress for keeping her lips sealed.

Now why could she be held in contempt? Well, Republicans argue she waived her right by reading a statement declaring her innocence beforehand. This all comes a day after the House Ways and Means Committee, the keepers of the tax code voted to seek criminal charges against Lerner.

Coming up next, tracking the black box in a virtual black hole, how will investigators search miles underwater when they do not know what is down there? Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Continuing our "World Lead," the hunt for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, of course, the search area has narrowed day by day with three vessels now dedicated to looking underwater. But if the wreckage is there, the big question, can explorers find it in the wild blue yonder that is the Indian Ocean, while black yonder underneath.

Let's bring in our Tom Foreman. Tom, what do we know about the underwater terrain of this search area? Who has even seen the ocean floor this deep?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's put it this way, Jake. Really you have more people who have traveled into the space than have traveled into the deepest parts of the ocean and this is on the borderline of being one of those deepest parts, 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 miles. This is sort of the area where you go if you are looking for the Titanic. You go deeper than the Titanic to get this.

You're going deeper than most nuclear subs spend their time bigger than were giant squids spend most of their time. So it is a very unknown area. We know generally it's on a long slope and we think, based on the pings that we're talking about around 2-1/2 miles deep. Freezing cold. Not quite at freezing but just very close to it -- Jake.

TAPPER: And as we know, there is this Bluefin-21, this unmanned vehicle and underwater drone that they have at the ready. Why haven't they sent it out yet to figure out what they are dealing with in these depths?

FOREMAN: Because it sounds easier than it is. Think about it this way. The Bluefin is actually sort of at the edge of its functional capability at 2-1/2 miles down. It's also used typically in more shallower water. It's a little experimental when you get very deep, especially in an area that you don't know.

Plus, they want to get the most bang for their buck. This is using sonar acoustics. The images you get won't be the absolute best. If you want higher level, what you might be talking about then is getting down here to use what is called synthetic aperture sonar, which is much, much closer to the bottom. You get much better images, but it's slower and it takes even more time, Jake.

And the real secret here, not what's happening down here, but what is happening up on the surface. Rough waters may get hard to deploy, hard to recover. They want to do a lot of mapping up there like with the "HMS Echo" to figure out first what they are dealing with before they throw these expensive robots into the water to start searching.

TAPPER: Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

So what exactly are searchers dealing with underwater and do they even have the right equipment to handle it. Let's bring in our panel. Jock Wishart is a maritime explorer and Miles O'Brien is a CNN aviation analyst, pilot and science correspondent for PBS "News Hour," as you all know.

Jock, let's start with you. Talk to us about this "HMS Echo," which is en route to assist the Australian ship, "Ocean Shield." Talk about the type of equipment that is on the Echo that they are hoping will be able to ultimately help find this plane. JOCK WISHART, MARITIME EXPLORER: Good afternoon, Jake. It was built in 2002 and found a number of craft after the Tripoli was discovered last year. She's got a whole bunch of trips on board. We have multi beam echo sounders, side scan sonar, oceanographic profilers and sub- bottom profilers. You put her as a compliment with what you have on the Australian vessel and then I think you're giving the best chance of trying to find this.

I suggested a couple of days ago it might be what they need to do because time it running out and we need to get on with it. It's -- I think the Australian authorities are perhaps cautiously optimistic. I'm not so optimistic as every day passes, things are being looking bleaker.

TAPPER: Miles, as you heard, Jock just said time is running out. Of course that's true. What's the most critical objective for the search right now? Is it trying to get more pings to narrow the search further? Is it trying to get a better understanding of the environment below the water in the search area or is it something else?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think the answer is both, but it's hard to do everything at once because when you're looking for pings, you want kind of a pristine environment. You can't have a lot of extra activity in the area. It seems counterintuitive. If you know the general area, why not just put the Bluefin in the water and start looking?

But in the long run, that will take more time. As long as they have a reasonable assumption, they are going to still hear more pings and the more they can sort of box in the location, the shorter the ultimate time will be. It requires a little bit of patience now because I know people who are involved in this would like to get down and take a look under the water and that's obviously what needs to be done before winter comes.

TAPPER: Jock, what do we know about this underwater terrain in this part of the Indian Ocean? What do you think will be the biggest challenge for searchers there?

WISHART: Well, I think the answer is, I think, very little is known. I mean, I've been told that it is on a plateau so it's pretty deep down at the bottom there and even that is a bit of a guess as to what is down there. What you've got to think about is that we're effectively trying to locate two suitcases and we're halfway up Everest trying to sight these two suitcases. It's a hell of a task that's being asked.

TAPPER: Miles, you've been asking for weeks now, why there are not more resources devoted and dedicated to looking for this plane, the U.S. Navy supply ship "USNS Cesar Chavez" is now joining the search. What do you make of that development?

O'BRIEN: Well, that's good because it allows the ships that are out there to sort of stay on station. They need to be resupplied and they are in there now for the long haul. The distance back to Perth to resupply, refuel, it's way too long at this point. There isn't enough time to do that. That's actually a crucial thing and I salute the U.S. Navy for providing that support right now.

The fact is, having located these pingers and reasonably certain that this is kind of on station where the wreckage might very well be, stepping back and not flooding the zone with a lot of resources is actually the right thing to do because, again, you want it to be nice and quiet so that the towed pinger locator can hear those pings.

TAPPER: Miles O'Brien, Jock Wishart, thank you so much. Wolf Blitzer is now here with a preview of "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf, they are really narrowing the search area for the plane and you're going to get some updates from people involved?

BLITZER: Yes, including the Royal New Zealand Air Force air commodore who is joining us live. He's involved in this search operation. They have the potential fifth ping, if you will, and they are trying to determine if it's the real thing. They are still looking for some debris, but we're going to go in depth to see what the latest is.

Plus, all this new information that our Nic Robertson has been collecting in Kuala Lumpur about the last recording stuff that you've been reporting. Got some new stuff coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM" as well.

TAPPER: "THE SITUATION ROOM" in 18 minutes. Thanks so much, Wolf Blitzer.

Coming up, she's one of the most powerful women in America who says there are not enough women in Congress. So does Sheryl Sandberg want to run for Congress herself? She'll join me next.

Plus, as President Obama commemorates the civil rights act, the 50th anniversary of it. We are looking back at civil rights icon, JFK. But did President Kennedy practice what he preached? His actions behind closed doors tell a somewhat different story and that's ahead.

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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. It's time now for our "Money Lead." You know, Sheryl Sandberg, as the chief operating officer of Facebook, the other famous face of that social media giant. You also might know her as a lightning rod for criticism over her lessons to working women in the best-selling book, "Lean In." Now Sandberg is doubling down on her advice releasing an updated version of the book aimed at college grads.

I spoke to her earlier about her message to women entering the workforce and why bossy should be banned.

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TAPPER: Sheryl Sandberg, thanks for joining us. Great to see you.

SHERYL SANDBERG, AUTHOR, "LEAN IN: FOR GRADUATES": Thanks for having me, Jake. Great to be with you.

TAPPER: So this is an updated version of your book "Lean In: For Graduates." It has some new material aimed at recent college graduates. You are very well-educated. You went to Harvard. You went to Harvard. You worked for Treasury Secretary Summers, Google, Facebook. You have a lot of advice in this book for women who are trying to move up in their work. How do you convince the secretary, the bus driver, the waitress, that there is advice in this book that they can relate to?

SANDBERG: Ever since "Lean In" came out, the interest is really broad, but the most common question people have is how, you know, how do I lean in, how do I find a first job, how do I negotiate for myself especially if I'm a woman, how do I figure out what I want to do? And this new book tries to answer those questions with very specific advice, an advice that's applicable no matter where you are. No matter what type of job you are going for.

TAPPER: I know you wrote this because you wanted to help other women, have them learn from your experiences. But I know also there was criticism I think that you didn't expect when it came out. Were you surprised by the criticism that the book got? Did it bother you? Did it hurt you?

SANDBERG: I was surprised that there was so much attention paid to the book, certainly, but I think the criticism and the debate is all part of what needs to happen, which is an honest debate of the issues. I'm worried about complacency. I'm worried that we don't have high enough standards and a high enough bar for what should happen to women.

In the last Senate election, women won 20 percent of the seats and all of the headlines kept saying, women take over the Senate. Twenty percent of the seats for 50 percent of the population is not a takeover. It's a problem.

TAPPER: You have another mission in the last few months, banning the word "bossy" and you have some very famous supporters for this campaign. Let's take a look at that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's ban bossy. Be brave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Join us to ban bossy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not bossy. I'm the boss.

TAPPER: Why not, instead of banning bossy, why not just own it? People use the term like a boss all the time as a positive. Why not have girls own that term?

SANDBERG: So "Ban Bossy" is a program with the Girl Scouts and it gets to a very real problem, which is that by junior high, more boys than girls want to leave, a trend that continues into adulthood. When you ask why, it's because girls don't want to be disliked or be called bossy. TAPPER: I know that you said you would never run for office, but your name has been bandied about quite a bit. You obviously worked in the Treasury Department earlier in your career. Are you really saying that you're never going to run for office, that's never going to happen?

SANDBERG: I'm not running for office. I really love my job at Facebook.

TAPPER: You're not currently running for office.

SANDBERG: I have no plans to run for office. I really love working at Facebook.

TAPPER: This past year, the Obama administration has faced a lot of criticism for the information gathering through the NSA. And Mark Zuckerberg, your boss, spoken with President Obama about the program and about its transparency, but one of the arguments that I've heard a lot is, corporate America has a lot of data on Americans, too, look at Facebook, look at all of the information Facebook has on people. Should the public be concerned about the information that Facebook has and what Facebook plans to do with it?

SANDBERG: As you know, we were very concerned with some of the NSA revelations. Mark has spoken to the president. Mark has flown to D.C. recently and seen the president. We believe every user of our service and any other technology service has the right to have their privacy, has a right to have control of their data, and has a right to the security of that data, whether it be from our government or any other. And we are asking the U.S. government to do more, to make sure Americans know that they stand behind that promise.

TAPPER: The book is "Lean In: For Graduates." The author, Sheryl Sandberg. Thanks so much for your time.

SANDBERG: Thank you for having me, Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Coming up next, the president paying tribute to a man who he calls both charming and ruthless. One who passed the law that helped him become the first African-American president. So why was today one of the first times President Obama has ever embraced Lyndon Johnson?

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Our other "National Lead" today, in 1964 when the civil rights act was signed, the idea of a black president of the United States seemed almost inconceivable. Today, President Obama joined other civil rights icon to commemorate the 50th anniversary of that monumental law, which not only changed the country, but in many ways paved his path to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because of the civil rights movement, because of the laws President Johnson signed, new doors of opportunity and education was opened for everybody. Not all at once but they swung open. Not just blacks and whites, but also women and Latinos and Asians and Native Americans and gay Americans and Americans with a disability. They swung open for you and they swung open for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Efforts to pass that law first gained steam during John F. Kennedy's term and after Kennedy's assassination, it was President Johnson who fight tirelessly to get the law passed. I recently spoke with Todd Purdum, author of the book "An Idea Whose Time Has Come" and he talked about how the public debate at that time did not always jive with the discussion behind closed doors.

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TAPPER: Do you know intellectually that a lot of these guys who supported civil rights did not practice what they preached in real life? That Lyndon Johnson used a lot of epithets. I did not know that John F. Kennedy did as well.

TODD PURDUM, AUTHOR, "AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME": At least one or two recorded examples of him using the "n" word when he was starting his politician career. The fact that they came together to grapple with this problem 100 years after the civil war is in some ways all the more remarkable.

TAPPER: You have the anecdote of not only Kennedy using the "n" word as a young man, but also expressing concern about some young black female supporters sitting with his sisters and then when he's president, being uncomfortable with the idea of Sammy Davis Jr. bringing his white wife to the White House. He didn't like that.

PURDUM: No. He was very upset. They had a big reception in honor of the 100th anniversary of the emancipation proclamation on Lincoln's birthday in 1963 and Kennedy was furious to see that Sammy Davis had brought his wife. He'd been banned from the inauguration for the same reason. So you know, it's funny. Our heroes don't come in a perfect package. We take what we get.

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TAPPER: Purdum's book also captures the power struggle between the White House and Congress to get the civil rights act approved. That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I'll see you back here at 9:00 p.m. Eastern for a special primetime edition of THE LEAD. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer is in 1 minute.

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