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Don Lemon Tonight

Mystery of Flight 370

Aired April 16, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL WEIR, CNN TONIGHT HOST: Good evening, I'm Bill Weir. Thank you for being with us tonight. Just imagine, what a must be like to head to the airport to pick up a loved one but instead of a nice reunion in baggage claim, you spent 41 days wondering what happen to them, hoping and praying, begging and raging for answers and none are given.

And imagine what it must be like to put your child on a ferry ride field trip only to get a text message that the ship is sinking and the boy just wants you to know he loves you in case there's no escape. We're going to have the very latest on the hunt for Flight 370, the race to find survivors on that sunken ferry ship in South Korea tonight.

As a swimming robot slowly searches for their kin three miles deep, many of the families of the missing plane stormed out of a conference today screaming accusations at the Malaysian authorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all bloody liars are there lying to us again now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: The brother of American passenger, Philip Wood joins us again later in the show. Meanwhile in South Korea, seven are dead, hundreds still missing after that huge ferry hid down to it's side forcing kids to decide whether to obey the command to stay in place in their cabins or climb up and jump in the icy waters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your safety vest on and stay put as it's dangerous. Kept announcing that about 10 times so kids were forced to stay put so only some of those who moved survived.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Incredible, we have some horrible ending text messages also. It appeared to be have been sent from that ship as it went down. And another big story tonight, Vladimir Putin and the drums of war pounding in Ukraine -- if you watch TV or read the papers in Moscow, you might think that Russian-loving Ukrainians have been menaced by terrorist which does not seem to match reality in the least. In fact when Ukrainian government sent in elite troops to square off with four Russian rebels today, I mean look all that elite.

They were surrounded, forced to hand over the firing pins from their weapons and even watch as the agitators use their troop vehicle to do doughnuts in the street. Christiane Amanpour, Fareed Zakaria are here to help us understand Putin's apparent power grab and whether NATO has anyway to stop it.

But on CNN tonight, we begin with the very latest news on the search for Flight 370, a sample from that oil slick that was spotted over the weekend has finally reached the lab in Australia and we're waiting for test results. Meanwhile, the world's most famous under robot, the Bluefin-21 has finally completed a full search day and data being analyzed as we speak.

CNN reports are live in the search zone , Michael Holmes in (inaudible), Nic Robertson in Kuala Lumpur. So why don't we start down under with Michael, what's the very latest?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bill, that's right. Those conducted the search is using the Bluefin-21 breathing. I suppose a bit of a sigh relief after it was lucky number three. The third mission, they're going apparently well, a full mission underwater 16 hours recording along just above the ocean floor. The first two missions of course captured because of a couple of technical glitches -- glitches that the people running the Bluefin site and really no big deal.

They've worked it out in things that have moving ahead. Now, the data from the first two showed nothing of significance. The data from this first full mission is being analyzed now of course they are in the area where the longest ping was taken -- was recorded. And so, they're really concentrating on that area and they were probably go back over the area of where the first mission was strapped because that's exactly where it was most promising.

Meanwhile, here in the West Australia, the plane is up again, the ships are out looking for surface wreckage but really hope that they're going to find any of that, Bill.

WEIR: Well, help me understand the search size of the search area. The last report I saw is about the size of Chicago which is much smaller than all the other analogies we've been using but it's still pretty big when you consider the Bluefin only does about 15 square miles a day?

HOLMES: Yes, it does. 15.5 square miles a day on a full mission including the first two that were captured, it's done a total of 35 square miles. You know, the area they're looking in now of the total search area you include where the ships are is quite massive still but that the search area round with those pings are, it's a lot more concentrated. It's less than 1,000 squared kilometers in fact.

And they do say though that at working phase which is what the Bluefin does, I could take six weeks to two months to cover the entire search area. Right now focusing on what they think is the best guess around where they did record those pings. You know, Bill, you mentioned that oil slick that was near the ocean shield vessel and they have brought up.

It sure took a while. I mean you got think that the ocean shield is 1,000 miles off the coast 1,600 kilometers, they have to get it shift out to that ship, fly a helicopter to do it with the sample, get that ship close enough to shore for the helicopter to fly up.

So the logistics here are remarkable, we expect results from that analysis in the hours to come, Bill.

WEIR: Within the hours? All right, Michael, thank you very much. Let's go now to Nic Robertson in Kuala Lumpur to talk about the families who have seemed understandable mood swings, all sorts of different outbursts over these 41 days. What happened today? What was the most recent outburst now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bill. The families have come up with a list of 26 different questions. These are the families of Chinese people aboard the aircraft. They're in Beijing now. They would do to have a teleconference with Malaysian officials here in Kuala Lumpur but technicalities on it didn't work out. And after an hour, the family stormed out in that meeting in Beijing.

It didn't work. They were dissatisfied and it left some of them saying that some of those relatives saying that they think that Malaysian government is involved in a coverup. This is what one family member told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will request their team of experts to come to Beijing to conduct face to face communications and fulfill their commitment. If they don't come, I would go to Malaysia again, I will ask the prime minister, is it truly so easy to break your promise? What is the truth? What problem do they want to cover up?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So one of -- 12 of those 26 questions all relate to the emergency location transmitter that they want to know many of these are fitted to the aircraft, what frequencies they're supposed to work on with a crew train to use them. Are they supposed to deploy when aircraft -- it's water, are they suppose to float to the surface? They've got so many questions all trying to get to the key answer for them to determine if their family members are still alive. They keep holding onto that hope, Bill.

WEIR: Very specific, I guess trying to manage their grief of details and wrap their brains around that for lack of anything else. Nic Robertson, thank you for your reporting. I will see you back there tomorrow night. Lots of talk about here, joining me now Mary Schiavo former Inspector General in the Department of Transportation, she's now an attorney for victims in transportation accidents also Mike Dean, Deputy Director for Salvage and Diving for the Navy.

Mary, what about the family's questions, is there -- you've seen this -- you've seen the families try to process this over your experience, do you think they're valid? Do you think the Malaysian authority should pass to answer them?

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION : Yes, and that's what families do in every crash. They are desperately searching for answers. And this kind of information that help him do a lot of things. Not the least is which is understand what's happened to their loved ones.

And these families aren't behaving any differently than other families in other crashes. They desperately want information. They become extremely educated and intelligent about the accident. They'd become experts about this accident.

So the Malaysian authorities really need to look at other accidents and how, you know, people behave and how people handle it to understand that this is normal as it can be. When you suffered a terrible tragedy in your family, this is how people handle it. And the more information you give them, the better. And in United States the NTSB has a preliminary hearing and makes all this kind of things public. That's the difference.

WEIR: Right. Right, I guess you do have to be part of grief counselor in a job like yours. Michael, let's talk about the Bluefin and in the area down there. This data when it comes back, it certainly doesn't take 12, 16 hours to analyze what it captured in those 12 or 16 hours, does it?

MIKE DEAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR SALVAGE AND DIVING, U.S. NAVY: No, they'll analyze it much quicker but again there's turn around time for the vehicle to give the most important part to get the vehicle back in the water and back researching. And then they've got time to go through that data, analyze what they've seen, and then put that information back into the next days planning.

WEIR: Right. Mary, I want to go back to something you said last night which really picked our interest. Do you think there are no coincidences as an investigator and you think the fact that the Americans who have offered other underwater vehicles, the Japanese, the Australians haven't asked for it. They've got the one Bluefin. Do you think they have a pretty good idea of where this plane is?

SCHIAVO: I think that they think that they do have and zero down where it is. Of course, just because they haven't asked for the other equipment -- even if they know where it is and if they haven't, they're going to need that other equipment eventually because remember not only that to consider once they find the plane, what they're going to do with it but that plane will be not only an accident in Malaysia since they're only -- there are all four of their theories are intentional wrong doing, it will be a crime scene too. So they're going to need a lot of other vehicles, underwater vehicles and support teams to help them once they find it. They'll be asking from more, they just haven't needed them yet.

WEIR: OK. Yeah, Mike, you know, Mary was saying that given those pings that we heard over the weekend they have a pretty good idea. Do you think there's a chance that they kind of know but they absolutely have to confirm before telling these families? DEAN: There's -- I don't believe there's anyway to know from what we've got today.

WEIR: No.

DEAN: I mean that the -- that again the pinger locator is to try to put us in the right area, we need to confirm that and the Bluefins is a good tool to do that. But as soon as we pick some images it is on sonar that would validate what they've heard on the pinger locator, then perhaps it will be time to bring another equipment to help speed up the mapping process.

WEIR: Mike, we spend weeks talking about the garbage patch in that part of Indian Ocean and then what does to above water search. Tell me what happens down below is there anything confusion that can happen as a result of stuff laying on the bottom of the ocean bed.

DEAN: Well sure, there can be. The sonar has pretty good resolution. And it can pick things up generally the size of the soda can. And the operators and that's really where the real test lays is the operators can detect what they're looking at very well. But if there is a lot of debris in the area it is going to slow things down, it's going to take them a little longer. And that's why and you rely again on not just the sonar image but at sometime a camera image as well to help you in that process.

WEIR: And what do you think about the -- as we talked about Mary, but what do you think about the fact that Americans, Japanese have offered those other subs but they haven't taken them up on that offer. Why?

DEAN: Well first I think there's...

SCHIAVO: Well, I think...

DEAN: ...a huge logistics challenge to getting them operating. But you also need vessels for them to operate from. There's no -- You can't have too many assets working off at one vessel. So you're going to need not only additional search systems if that's what you want to bring at the area but you going to need support vessels for them as well.

WEIR: I'm sorry, Mary, you wanted to jump in. Did I misspeak?

SCHIAVO: No, that's -- I agree and don't agree completely.

WEIR: OK, all right. But let me do shift to the other big story, this sinking ferry there in South Korea. Mary, you've investigated all sorts of disasters. What's your best guess about what happened? We don't have a -- it's sounds like they were calm waters in the wee hours and I think just went on to its side. What's your hunch on this thing?

SCHIAVO: Well, there were a couple reports of that people heard a loud thud or -- and they were not top of their feet which certainly indicates that they hit something. So it must have been out of the channel. And, you know, it looks like a vast body of water which you have to paddle the channels. And often when ferries do that and if there's any problem on board you can have, you know, take on water very quickly if the doors are breached, where they take the vehicles on.

And one the water start rushing in there are so many ways for water to come in to a ferry, they can capsize it and think rather rapidly. We've have some in this country. There've been some, you know, literally around the world. And the problem is once they start taking on water, the physics of that is just massive amount of water, it becomes very quick so you can't get out of that in rushing water. So I think the instruction for those people to remain in place and not get on the life boats was terribly tragically wrong.

WEIR: And Mike can we hold at any hope that there's some sort of air pocket in there to keep these kids alive.

DEAN: No, well certainly look from the images that I've seen, there's clearly some areas of the hall that are above the water, that are not flooded. So absolutely there could be areas in there where there is breathable air. The trouble right now of course is the temperature. And getting people to them if in fact there are folks up there and how will -- how can you get them out of there?

WEIR: Right, right. I think the water temperature 50, 55 degrees or so, so hyperthermia a concern. Mike and Mary, please hang with us, we're going to talk about the test results on that oil slick spotted in the search zone over the weekend as we shift back to the plane.

And we comeback a scientist from Woods Hole, former Chairman to the NTSB will tell us what all of that means. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: A sample from the oil slick spotted over the weekend and the search area has now reached the lab in Australia and as we wait for test results to see if that has anything to do with the missing plane. Mary Schiavo and Mike Dean are back with us, also Jim Hall, former Chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. And Chris Reddy, a senior scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution who specializes in oil slicks.

And I guess when there's a big spill like that VP well bursts, there's a certain urgency not unlike this hunt for this plane and we were last night about crisis mode and what does to an investigation. How?

CHRIS REDDY, SR. SCIENTIST, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INST. You have to be careful, you know, you have to be skeptical and you have to be prudent in terms of making sure that you use the data very cautiously and not jump. And so, at this point the Perth Lab should be incredibly skeptical about the sample that they just received for analysis.

WEIR: And take me through the steps. How long is it take? What are they looking for?

REDDY: So what they're going to do is they're going to get that sample back in the lab. That lab is probably very primed and ready for any possible type of analysis. So they're going to be looking for possibly jet fuel remnants, hydraulic fluid remnants, lubricating remnants. Any possible -- a signature that could be sign of that jet liner will already be prepared and looked that. So when that sample comes in it will be rushed right in to lab and the lab will be standing ready and arms for it.

So in theory like you previous reports have said, they should be able to get some instant results, I would say in hours.

WEIR: In hours or so. And as Mary was schooling us last night, Jim Hall, it could indicate even location, right, if oil is still bubbling up from the wreckage down below?

JIM HALL, FORMER CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: That's possible.

WEIR: It is possible? What is your take on whether or not on why we haven't seen any sort of wreckage on the surface at all after all this time?

HALL: Well my recommendation is that this is an unprecedented international aviation tragedy. The international Civil aviation organization ought to assemble with the consent of the Malaysian government, some independent experts to review all the data and information -- the factual data that has been compiled so that the families as well as the world at large have a confirmation that there is an independent group that that has looked at all these facts and is helping direct the continuation of this investigation.

WEIR: And who would you recommend for that job?

HALL: Well, when I was with USAir 427, we put together with Alan Mulally at Boeing, some of the top individuals looking at the router (ph) movements in that particular crash. It was very helpful to the investigation. It provided credibility and answers. And it provided a focus of individuals whose only job was to come in and focus on the facts and then interpret those facts.

Everyone else has been so involved in this media surface around this investigation, that I think it's created in the atmosphere in which is very difficult for investigators to do their work.

WEIR: Mary, what's you take on that idea?

SCHIAVO: I think, you know, and I -- Jim and I had the opportunity to work together in D.C and I think he is right. The key is to assemble the right team and to get them brought together and I think that Malaysia is on the right track when they admitted that they couldn't do the black box download and analysis. And that was a good first step, because they said, "Look, we've got to have the authorities from around the world." There are four countries that could do that.

And then they announced, I think it was yesterday that they're setting up special committees pretty much like Jim used to do with the NTSB, setting up these special committees. So I think they're on that track already. They have consulted with ICAO. ICAO was in Malaysia by the way, checking out their new airport terminals. So I think they are headed that way and this good suggestion by Jim.

WEIR: Jim, I also understand that you're interested in the lithium battery idea. Why?

HALL: Well it's just, you know, a significant. Obviously, we've seen very recently some accidents occurred in the cargo industry as a result of the carriage of lithium batteries. There was a whole lot of attention earlier last year on the new Boeing aircraft and the subject of lithium batteries.

So having that carriage above the -- aboard the aircraft is just one of the factual areas that obviously the investigators are going to have to rule out as they go through and try to determine what occurred. None of course can happen until the wreckage is found. And we're able hopefully to get whatever information is available of the black boxes.

WEIR: And you seem to want to set a very reasonable expectation for how long this could take. If you were advising -- if you were talking to this families, would you tell them the brace for months?

HALL: All right. As Mary pointed out, these families become experts in this accident. Their loved ones have -- are missing, possibly perished. And they deserve answers. So I think families have played a very responsible role here. And I hope that there answers the questions they are putting forth will be answered in the responsible way. That's a responsibility of the investigation.

WEIR: Yeah. We're going to talk to the brother James Wood of one of those American passengers later about those questions as well. And you just can imagine what these people must be going through with such a dirt (ph) of information. But I appreciate all of you giving us what you can in terms of information tonight. Mike Dean and Mary Schiavo, Jim Hall, Chris Reddy, thanks to all you.

And coming up the tragedy of the waters of South Korea, we'll shift back to that on the latest on a desperate mission to rescue hundreds of people, many of them are teenagers still missing a day after a ferry sank in frigid waters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: And now to that stunning shipwreck off the coast of South Korea where 289 people are still missing after this 480 foot ferry inexplicably heaved onto its side in calm waters and cup size. It must have been absolutely terrifying for those 450 passengers thrown from their beds in the early morning hours, that vast majority kids and teachers from the same high school near Seoul all in routes to the resort island of Jeju, just about 60 miles South of the Korean peninsula.

As panics spread, loud speakers ordered passengers to stay put in their cabins. And some obeyed -- many obeyed while other climb through crooked passage ways, jump into the icy water. So far at least 179 people have been rescued but the death poll is seven. And what is almost poignant as these images of the rescue are the messages that appear who have come from those scared kids as it went down.

You know, it was 102 years ago this week when a titanic went down and Morse code over wireless radio was stated to the art, but in the hyper-wired nations South Korea these days, most of those kids had cell phones with SMS and Twitter. And this is just the sample from what we understand.

A one boy texted, "Mom, in case I don't get to see this, I love you." His unwilling mother replied, "Why? Of course, I love you too." Thankfully that wasn't their last exchange. He was among those rescued. A father text, "I know there is rescue operation under way, but if it's possible get out of your room." "No dad," he replies, "The ship is tilted, I can't get out. No one is in the hallway."

And this one just kills you. "I think we're all going to die," one of the students wrote. "If I did anything wrong to you, please forgive me." And later, they wrote "I love you all." Those messages from our CNN affiliate YTN. We cannot independently confirm that they are authentic, but you can only imagine what these kids must be on.

Through CNN's Paula Hancocks, live in South Korea today with the very latest. Paula, first of all, how much of that ship is above the water now? It's sort of deceiving when we see the old footage where it looks like there's plenty of room for people to be inside. How much of an air pocket, how much of a hole is still poking above the surface?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Bill, we do understand that a very small amount is still above the surface of the water. So, it certainly is sinking, but, as far as we can tell, and this is from local media network that are actually running these pictures. Because from here, the harbor that's the closest we can get on land, it's still about 12 miles into where the sunken ship is. This is where all the parents have faced themselves because this is as close as they can get. But what we can see is that it's still above water a little bit. Bill.

WEIR: And how are the families there around you handling this? I hear some are even taking things into their own hands frustrated of the rescue effort.

HANCOCKS: It is a heartbreaking scene here. There are mothers and fathers that have been sitting by the water site all night. They have literally just been sitting still and looking out into the peach black. They can't see the wreckage from here, but they have just been looking on to the horizon praying that their child comes back to them. And there is desperation here that they feel that the authorities are not doing enough. We're moving 24 hours and I've sense that distressed signal came from this ship and still these parents do not know what happened to their children.

Some of them have been going out on boats with the coast guard and they have been shown the areas so they can see the search and rescue operations still ongoing. But they're coming back more frustrated, then now they're saying it's simply not enough. One man saying, it's not a search and rescue operation, it's a search operation. He said he only saw two divers that should have been 20 divers going underwater to try and find their children.

WEIR: I know if that was my kid, I'd be on the boat as well. What about the cause? Do you have any sense yet for any reports from those rescue does to what happened. I know this is like a 20-year-old Japanese built ship, but any clues as to the cause?

HANCOCKS: Well, the only clues we've got at this point is from the actual survivors themselves. One of the eye witnesses, the students, basically said that he felt a very loud bump -- loud bumping sign and he said there are many people fell over. So, we are hearing there was a point of impact. He said then that the ship started to tilt and he donned his life jacket and he jumped into the chilly water. Now, there are different accounts. Some are saying that the ship tilted before they felt a bump.

So, it's very confused obviously, very traumatic time for many of these survivors, but it does appear at this point to say there was point of impact. Officially, we're not hearing anything at all. The investigation is not being talked about. They are still talking about the search and rescue operation.

WEIR: Paula Hancocks, thank you. We'll bring you the very latest developments on that rescue mission as we get them of course.

And coming up next, is it already too late to stop Vladimir Putin's land grab or does he really want the land? Does he just want to influence the Ukrainian part of the former Soviet Union? Or will NATO take a stand in Eastern Europe? Two very smart people joining me next to talk about all of that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I've said consistently is that each time Russia takes these kinds of steps that are designed to destabilize Ukraine and violate their sovereignty that there are going to be consequences.

They're not interested in any kind of military confrontation with us, understanding that our conventional forces are significantly superior to the Russians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: And of course, President Obama on the CBS Evening News tonight, discussing the Russian nemesis that is Vladimir Putin, a man who does not seem to care much with Mr. Obama or the rest of the western world. Thanks with his adventures in the Ukraine these days. Diplomats from Russia and U.S., Ukraine and the E.U. will meet tomorrow all events in Eastern Ukraine fluctuate from scary to surreal and back again.

And joining me now, my old Hall Way mate at ABC, CNN's Christiane Amanpour and Fareed Zakaria, great to have both of you with us. We'll get to the diplomatic part of it in just a second. But I want to talk about what's happening. What happened today?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORREPONDENT: Yeah.

WEIR: Say there were bunch of separatism in Montana and Washington sends the National Guard in there, but instead of taking control, they hand over the keys to the tank. It is surreal to see how coward they are by these locals.

AMANPOUR: And there's a little bit of a sort of unknown as to how many of them were captured, how many of them were surrendered. But for sure, APCs changed hands and Russian flies were flying over Ukraine in APCs. It does show two things. Number one, Ukrainian government does not have the authority or the strength to actually try to calm these situations down. And number two, that they're not going to do anything to make it work. They're not going to fire their weapons. They're not going to give Russia a bigger excuse to do what its already doing, which is -- and we really shouldn't make any mistake about it, staring that part. I mean, President Putin is doing this, oh my goodness, there's a crisis in his Ukraine.

WEIR: We must save them.

AMANPOUR: Yeah, which he happens to be staring.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": But I think it's very important to understand the point Christiane is making is to you is it's not clear whether as to the Ukrainian government is as incompetent as we're making about to be or whether it is being restrained out of, you know, a wise understanding of strategy. Remember, just across the border from Eastern Ukraine, there are 40,000 Russian troops. The Russian foreign minister and Vladimir Putin have both said, "If there is a civil war taking place in Eastern Ukraine, we may have no option but to intervene.

So, in other words, what they're telling the Ukrainian government is you do anything to clear out those 10 buildings. And if people start dying with this tear gas, and we can make the claim that this isn't chaos, we'll come in. So, the Ukrainian government is trying to figure out how do you clear out these buildings and assert control of your territory without triggering that. That's a -- it's a fine balance and they may be doing something smart by not giving Russians a publication (ph).

WEIR: Is the end game to look pathetic enough that NATO comes to the rescue?

AMANPOUR: No, because it's not going to. NATO ...

ZAKARIA: No. NATO is not going to come. The end game for Putin -- remember, Crimea was always a side show. The end game for Putin is to create as much chaos as possible, and precisely the way Christiane was pointing out, and then force the Ukrainians to sue for peace. What I think Putin wants is that the Ukrainians come to them and say, "OK, what do you want?" And he will say, "I want substantial autonomy in Eastern Ukraine and I want to pledge perhaps written into the Ukrainian constitution that Ukraine will never join NATO.

WEIR: Right.

ZAKARIA: Something like that. Then, you know, Churchill was very kind (ph) about the Soviet Union was, they don't want war. They want the fruits of war without actually having to wage it.

WEIR: Well, in part would brought down the Soviet Union, they couldn't afford all these outposts everywhere and this way, he gets the fruit without having to spent (ph). But, what's next, I mean, I've read some things about, worry about, this could start creeping in the Odessa down on the Black Sea.

AMANPOUR: Yeah. I spoke to the secu (ph) of the supreme -- I like the monitor (ph) of NATO a few weeks ago who did confirmed the 40,000 troops and said, look, there are three things that are possibly going on with those troops. For sure, they're not on exercises. So let's just put that aside.

WEIR: Yeah.

AMANPOUR: They are not on exercises. They're there either to come into Ukraine itself or to go into around the desert and potentially into the Moldova area which is a breakaway part as well. Or to sit there and be a huge big personnel and military vehicle pressure point as Ukraine goes through, first of all, the talks that are happening tomorrow, and then the elections that are going to come up and at least, to try to influence the situation on the ground by their physical presence. But what's for sure is that today, it did spike -- the activity on the ground spike with this APCs that chase has (ph), with the Russian flags blazingly flying through ...

WEIR: Yeah.

AMANPOUR: ... on Ukrainian vehicles, with all this masked military men, even more of them coming out of the wood work now. It's very interesting, and you know what, I was (inaudible) a little bit earlier about there is a new poll that's out which defies all of what Putin and the Russians are saying. They're saying that "Oh, you know, we're doing this because our brothers in Eastern Ukraine feels so much under threat." Actually, it's not true. A new polled on, on the ground says that the vast majority of Ukrainians whether at the east, in the west, or in Crimea do not feel threatened whatsoever. Furthermore, they want to have better relations with the E.U., the majority of them.

WEIR: Yeah. It's like 4 to 6 percent or something like that. But, Fareed, let's talk about what's happening in Russia. You talk to people there who say, I mean, there's a level of propaganda going on that you haven't seen since the past ...

AMANPOUR: Yeah.

WEIR: ... and an intimidation to keep people to the line and what's interesting now from what I understand is they're not afraid of the Gulag, the upper middle class, they're afraid of being bump from business class back to coach. And it's working for Putin, like his approval ratings are through the roof.

ZAKARIA: Well, and the worrying thing, the most worrying thing though is that it may not be entirely the product of propaganda though there is clearly a great deal of propaganda. I think that the Russians have a very different narrative of what's happened. The way the Russians see it as Putin expresses this most, you know, a kind of stridently, but I think a lot of Russians, a lot of liberal Russian friends of mine believe this as well. Russia surrendered in the Cold War, they gave up not just the 75-year-old Soviet Empire, but they've gave up the 300-year-old Xerxes (ph) Empire. Remember, Ukraine was part of Russia not just the Soviet Union for 300 years.

WEIR: Right.

ZAKARIA: In return for which where did they get? They got NATO expansion into Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, into the Baltic States. There's a narrative which says that "We kept giving in, you kept pushing us."

AMANPOUR: But the thing is ...

ZAKARIA: Part of this is I think that the Russians really have always been somewhere distressful of the west. So what, you know, they interpreted -- there is another argument (inaudible) -- we gave them a lot of aid after the end of the Cold War. But my only point is a lot of Russians believe that propaganda. So it's emptying up the volume ...

WEIR: Right.

ZAKARIA: ... but there is a real alternative narrative that Russians believe and Putin is gaining (inaudible) because of ...

AMANPOUR: And I think that's true. Putin is very popular and tomorrow, he's going to have his hours long and you attract with the Russian people and you probably going to hear him talk about Russian relations with the E.U. and the United States because of all what's going on.

But here's the thing. We've seen this movie before. I saw it in the "Vulcans", you saw it (ph). President Milosevic played this very same card. This myth of victimhood ...

WEIR: Right.

AMANPOUR: ... which is what Putin is playing right now and it's really dangerous. Putin is playing the Milosevic card right now and unless he is really careful, it could actually get out of his control because they know perfectly well that this victimhood is not happening that they are ginning (ph) it out for their own political purposes right now, that they are pumping in Russian propaganda to an extent that everything else is muted and silent. The U.N. just put out a very important report on this yesterday and the Russians who usually have no problem with the U.N. suddenly decided they don't like this report because it's telling some hard home (ph) truth. So what they're doing is playing a very dangerous game. Stoking the fires and then who knows what because we still don't really know what Putin's aim is. There's one positive thing I heard today from the Russian ambassador to the E.U. is he said "for sure, we're not going to invade Ukraine or anywhere else," so.

ZAKARIA: And they're meeting with the government of Ukraine tomorrow, they are government they didn't even recognized a week ago.

WEIR: Right.

ZAKARIA: So there is some halting hopes of a progress, maybe not progress.

WEIR: We'll take halting. We'll taking any halt. Fareed Zakaria and Christiane Amanpour, I could talk to you for hours. Thanks for being here.

AMANPOUR: Thanks Bill.

WEIR: And coming up, the families of Flight 370 has a sort of psychological torture a few of us can imagine, almost six weeks in its international spotlight, no word in what's become of the person or people that they love. I'll talk to the brother of passenger Philip Wood, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished almost six weeks ago and the anguish for the families of these 227 passengers and 12 crew members, it's more than most of us could ever imagine. Some must be in shock, others in mourning. And some family members can barely control the frustrations.

Storming out of a video conference earlier today, others are managing their grief by demanding facts and put out a list of 27 questions. One of the passengers on Flight 370 is an American Philip Wood, an employee of IBM and his brother James Wood joins me now.

Thanks for being with me sir. I really appreciate you taking the time. How are you doing ...

JAMES WOOD, HIS BROTHER PHILIP WAS ON FLIGHT 370: Thanks.

WEIR: Try and characterize for me your mental state now and how was it shifted over these six weeks?

WOOD: Well, it shifted all over the place frankly. But right now, I think actually anger is my main motivator right now. I don't think that's too weird to say that either. But, I'm trying to direct that anger into something productive and useful and I think that's why we're actually headed in this direction of asking these questions. And trying to use that the anger and channel that energy into something that is actually going to get us some answers and some truth to everything. WEIR: Take the matter in your own hands. It is completely reasonable, nothing weird about that. So tell me the questions that are most important to you. What do you want to know and what do you think it will get hit (ph)?

WOOD: I thank you for asking that. Really, I think all the families don't want to be too general with it, but the questions that we're really asking are what is the truth? Tell us about radar data. You know, is the radar data that's been shared, is it raw data? Have the Australians been given information for all the different countries where this airplane may have gone? Are all the countries really sharing what's really going on?

And that's the part that we don't have any answers to is there's no transparency, there's a lot of information that's provided downstream. Is the information given to them -- is it copies of information? Is it just tidbits of information? Are we getting the whole picture? And from the family's perspective, we're getting very little bit of a picture.

And so, we're really wanting to get answers as to the truth of what happened, how it happened, when it happened, when did they really know what they knew, how did we get to where we're at now.

WEIR: And have you tried to organize together? I mean, obviously, there are cultural and language barriers. But are you putting on any sort of united fronts? And who are you taking these demands too in Malaysia?

WOOD: Well, actually yes. We are uniting and we're trying to get organized. And we've sent letters to the Malaysian minister. We've talked to different organizations, including Woods Hole. We've contacted NTSB. We're trying to just use any resource that we can. Whoever is going to listed an answer, that's where we're trying to go to and of course authoritatively. FBI, been trying to use that as a resource, especially since Phil is an American, asking the questions that we can through that channel. So ...

WEIR: And do they ...

WOOD: ... anything we can.

WEIR: Are the -- is like the FBI or American diplomats willing to help, do they think they can pressure in getting any answers?

WOOD: Well, I know they're working in concert with the authorities. Of course, the Malaysian government is leading the investigation, we know that. But that's also a little bit of the problem in our eyes, because from the get go, we haven't had the answers given to us in a transparent manner. And so, the trust is broken.

WEIR: Yeah.

WOOD: The trust is broken. And so, with that in mind even when they say something that might be true now, we're not sure if we can believe it. And I know that some of the families over there n that side of the world are even more feeling that way. Look at -- what you're talking about with them (ph) walking out.

WEIR: Yeah.

WOOD: There's just a level of mistrust that is so high.

WEIR: They think it's a cover up. Your brother Philip's partner Sarah Bajc, she's been a regular with us and so eloquent on our Facebook post, she tries to keep spark alive and keep it going with some beautiful sentiments. But she joined us last night and said this about the search itself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BACJ, PARTNER OF MH370 PASSENGER: The authority seems to be spending all of their energies looking in the water, but there's no evidence in the water either. The Inmarsat data has never been verified in its raw formats, to verify that that is the right location. And there's been absolutely no debris. So, the position of the families is, you know, maybe they're looking in the wrong places.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Do you agree with that, do you think the Bluefin search is misguided?

WOOD: I don't know if I'd say it's misguided, but I agree with her in the fact that they're only looking in one place and they're putting all their eggs in one basket as to if this is not the place, what other leads do they have? You know, they've really laid everything they've got on this one thing, hoping that they hit a home run, but what if they don't? You know, how much time have we lost, how much time did we lose in the first two weeks ...

WEIR: Yeah.

WOOD: ... by searching in every other location that just turned out to not even be valid. What about, you know, there's areas that they just -- they've dismissed based on one real set of information, that's the Inmarsat data.

WEIR: Right.

WOOD: And, you know, that may -- there maybe some validity to it. We don't know how much of that has been shared with independent organizations to say, "Yeah, let's validate this. Let's go through this isentropic process."

WEIR: Yeah. But James, thank you again. Please give our regards to your brother and sister, your nephew, our hearts go out to you. I hope you can ...

WOOD: Thanks Bill.

WEIR: ... keep the faith.

And we'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: Finally, kids, before you take that next selfie to post to Instagram, know that you'll only be as cool as Joe Biden. As the V.P. joined Instagram today, found an interesting partner for his first selfie there. And he has 20,000 followers. You go anticipating that shot of him washing the Camaro.

I'm Bill Weir. That's been CNN Tonight.