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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

South Korean Ferry Accident; Bluefin Starts 4th Scan; South Korean Parents of Ferry Missing Wait and Hope; A Look at Issues With Underwater Search

Aired April 17, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Don Lemon starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Could any of the 287 missing passengers still be alive, trapped in air pockets in the sunken Korean ferry? And why can't divers get in to find out? Devastated families wait for any word of survivors.

Also this hour, zeroing in on the missing plane. CNN takes you live beneath the surface in a rescue submarine to show you just how the recovery will go if and when search teams find Flight 370.

And bloodshed suddenly overshadowing the diplomatic efforts to end the crisis in Ukraine, as Russia's president reminds the world that his parliament has given him the authority to send troops across the border.

Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, in today for Ashleigh Banfield. It is Thursday, April 17th, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

It is the middle of the night in South Korea where precious time is flying by at the scene of a monumental disaster. This is the only thing left sticking out of the water and officials are worried that even that could soon disappear. Just under the surface and upside down is a massive ferryboat and nearly 300 people, most of them school kids and likely still trapped somewhere inside. Right now, rescuers have no idea how many of them might be alive. Families are devastated.

The mother of one teenage girl who is still somewhere on the ship talked to CNN. She has not heard from her daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter said to me, mom, I don't want to go there because I went there again, this time again. So I tell her, I think this trip will be a very great experience for you, for your school days. So I'm very regret. I'm very regret I did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: How sad is that? Here's the very latest information we have on that ferry that started sinking more than 36 hours ago.

The boat was carrying high schoolers and teachers on a school trip. We don't know the fate of 287 of those passengers. Rescuers working fast to save their lives, have been trying to pump air into the overturned wreck. It is for people trapped inside to breath and also to try to keep the ship floating for as long as possible.

And during this frantic rescue work, officials are trying to learn what happened to make this loaded ferry tip over and sink. They're looking at the weight, interviewing the captain. And already they say that the ship was not on its intended course.

What we do know is this, nine people are so far confirmed dead, 179 people have been rescued. Some of the parents and friends of the kids on board have been sending cell phone text messages and police are working to verify those messages.

And then there's the man who was at the controls, the captain. We know today that he managed to get off the ship and relatively soon after this disaster. We also know some of the decisions he made in the very important first moments of the emergency, I want you to listen to what he told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Any words for the family members of the missing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (through translator): I'm sorry. I'm at a loss for words.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He's at a loss for words.

I want to talk to two gentlemen who can help fill in some of the missing information for us here. Captain Jim Staples, who has been a merchant marine, ship captain for 20 years now and he has personally sailed those same waters off South Korea. Also retired U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen is with us as well.

Captain Staples, to you first. You know, you just heard that ferry captain say he is at a loss for words. We have heard that this captain ordered passengers to stay put when the boat got into trouble. Was that the right call?

CAPT. JIM STAPLES, U.S. MERCHANT MARINE MASTER MARINER: Well, obviously now we know that it definitely wasn't. When the captain realized initially that he had a great loss of stability on that vessel and there was no way that he could right the vessel, he should have commanded everybody to get to an evacuation spot immediately to get to the life rafts and to evacuate that vessel. So, you know, the time lost in having these people stay inside the vessel was precious time that could have been gained if he had told people to immediately evacuate.

The situation was dire from the beginning. It sounds like he had a stability problem. Whether he hit something, had an obstruction and had an ingress of water, or whether it was a shift in cargo which changed his center of gravity on the vessel. So, either way, he should have known initially that he was in grave danger and he had to evacuate passengers immediately and not to keep them inside the vessel, as we saw that he did.

LEMON: Help me out here, Captain Staples, because you have -- you've sailed those waters. Is that area rocky? I mean what are some of the things that could have happened to that ferry?

STAPLES: Well, if he was in the traffic separation scheme, there's plenty of good water in there. There's no reason why he should have hit anything. Not knowing, you know, and being able to see what his voyage plan was or his intended track, it's hard to say whether he avoided that area.

But there is a traffic system there, a vessel traffic system, which is monitored by the Koreans. So they should have his position on AIS and VHF communications with the captain as he check in through this VTS system. So they should be able to tell where he was at all times. And if he was outside of the intended track, I assume and would believe that the VTS would recommend to him to get back into the traffic separation scheme.

So I find it hard to believe that he probably deviated too far from the traffic scheme and went into shallower water close to the rocky area. But, you know, from looking at the charts and seeing the traffic scheme and being there myself, there's plenty of good water and he should not have hit anything. So we're going to have to see if there's any obstructions in the hull, if there's any problems.

LEMON: Right.

Admiral Allen, this question is for you. We're just getting some information now. We're learning today that the ferry was just fitted - or retro-fitted, as a matter of fact, with new equipment that raised its weight by hundreds of tons, also was load with cars. Why is that important to know in a disaster like this? It wasn't at capacity passenger-wise, but with all of this other stuff, why is that important to know?

ADM. THAD ALLEN, U.S. COAST GUARD (RET.): Well, the construction of the ship is based on its use. And in this particular ship, there was room for containers, automobiles and passengers and it was rated at a certain maximum for all three of those. Those are taken into account when they do the stability calculations on the ship. So any modifications would have had to have been approved and part of the certificate for operation of that vessel.

LEMON: Yes. And, admiral, I want to talk about the timeline right now because I want to know what can be done in the dark of night right now, the chances for those kids surviving in water and could they find air pockets inside the boat and survive this long, admiral?

ALLEN: Well, I think we need to understand, the vessel is inverted, so down is up and up is down. As you try and get to upper decks, you're really going further down into the water. It's a very precarious situation for divers right now. There's a very strong current and there's a lot of sediment in the water and getting access to the ship itself without endangering the divers is a real, real challenge. I know they've tried on several times and they're having problems with that. I think we need to understand that just getting access to this ship in an inverted position is extraordinarily difficult.

LEMON: Yes. Admiral, thank you very much. Captain Staples as well, we appreciate both of you.

You know our other top story, the search for missing Malaysian airliner, Flight 370. Right now, the Bluefin underwater drone is scanning the bottom of the ocean looking for wreckage from that plane. We're going to have the very latest on the search. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Don Lemon, in for Ashleigh today.

Continuing coverage of the search for the missing Malaysian airliner. You know it's just past midnight in the southern Indian Ocean where the Bluefin underwater robot has started its fourth deep sea scanning mission since Monday. Yesterday it carried out its first complete work cycle free of any known glitches. Not only that, but operators say it has been tweaked to let it search even deeper. And that's some hopeful news here. The less hopeful news, no signs yet of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the 35 square miles of ocean floor the Bluefin has scanned to date.

And preliminary test results from an oil slick seen fairly near the search area days ago show it is not from an airplane. A dozen or so planes and 11 ships spent another day looking for anything related to Flight 370 on the surface with no more luck than they have ever had. The visual searches are likely to end soon. We heard the man in charge say that not long ago.

And with that, I want to bring in now some experts. Sylvia Earle is an oceanographer and explorer and resident at the National Geographic Society. She joins us from San Francisco. Also from Fallout, Massachusetts, we are joined by Thomas Altshuler of Teledyne Marine Systems. His firm designs and builds all manner of undersea communications here. So you can see we have the top experts here to talk about this.

Hello to both of you. Tom first.

Are we expecting too much too soon from Bluefin, Tom?

THOMAS ALTSHULER, TELEDYNE MARINE SYSTEMS: No. I mean let's say that it's functioning the way it should function. It's an exceptionally robust system. It's doing a very hard task. But it has a large area to search. And you're looking at as many as 60 days in the water to be able to cover the area that's been defined as the most likely target areas. And so it's just going to take time. There's no other way around it. It's slow, it's arduous, but it's a great system to do what it's doing.

LEMON: All right, speaking of time, so, Sylvia, to you, is it imperative to wait until the Bluefin detects something to send down, an ROV, which is a remotely operated vehicle?

SYLVIA EARLE, OCEANOGRAPHER: Well, it makes sense to have a target to go to. The ROVs or even a manned system armed with manipulators that can actually pick up debris and cameras that can see more clearly what's there. But they aren't good search vehicles. They're best for recovery.

LEMON: Oh, really? And so - and - but they can't -- can they stay down as long as a Bluefin or no?

EARLE: Well, ROVs have virtually unlimited time. It just depends on their surface support. The manned systems have more limited time because you have people on board. So a six or eight hour exposure is about a normal time, sometimes a bit longer.

You know, there's a deep system currently operating in the Kermadec Trench in New Zealand that - is even deeper. But this is - and what you're seeing presently is one of the ROVs. This is with DOER Marine. It's a 6,000 meter system operated at the University of Hawaii and another one by Pelagic. Great equipment. It's designed to do exactly what would be required to recover elements of the wreck.

LEMON: Yes.

EARLE: Yes.

LEMON: Tom, you know the Malaysians say, you know, if the Bluefin comes up empty, we're going to need to regroup and reconsider. What might be the next step here?

ALTSHULER: Well, if -- you know, at this point, it's almost absolutely certain that the pingers have died. I mean they had a 30 day lifetime guaranteed. There's margin in that. But as we move out, you know, there's just no chance that you're going to get an acoustic signal from the wreckage field. And what that means is you're into search mode. And the Bluefin is a very good search tool.

Probably the only other way you could go would be a deep towed vehicle that has either a bathometric sonar or side scan sonar. Those are even rarer than the Bluefin type vehicles, but then they would be supported by a ship and you could survey over a broad area. The issue there is you start spending an immense amount of time and money searching an area that's ever widening. So the needle in a haystack problem that I think we talked about many times just gets worse and worse if you don't find anything.

LEMON: We have certainly learned a lot about the ocean and a lot about technology, especially underwater technology, with this very sad, sad story. Thank you, guys. We'll see you on CNN soon, I'm sure, Sylvia Earle and Thomas Altshuler.

And I want you to check this out, live pictures of our -- OK. OK, so we don't have those pictures, but anyway, now we do.

There he is, right there, Martin Savidge inside a submarine. Subs like this one might be used to getting the wreckage off of the plane off the ocean floor -- used to get the wreckage of that plane off the ocean floor, and we're going to get a demonstration of how it works, coming up, our Martin Savidge, live, just on the other side of a very short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Images from that horrible incident off the southwest coast of South Korea, let's talk more about that now, because underwater search teams rotating in 12 hour shifts, searching in the cold, choppy murky water for survivors from the ferry disaster off the southwest coast of South Korea.

But they can't even get inside the ferry or pump air into it to help any possible survivors. At least nine people are dead, 287 people missing, yet hope still alive through text messages from inside the sinking ferry.

CNN's Paula Hancocks looks at the search, the rescues, and the mothers and father desperate to find their children.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Beneath these frigid waters, nearly 300 people, mostly teenage students and their teachers, remain missing, the ship's captain with his head down telling police, "I'm sorry. I'm at a loss for words."

Overnight, three bodies were recovered from the sunken ferry bound for a resort island off the southwest coast of Korea. The miraculous rescue of a 6-year-old girl was caught on tape. Her parents and brother were not found.

Grief-stricken family members gather at a harbor in Jindo, waiting into the night, desperate for any information, a mother's anguish as she recalls encouraging her daughter to take the trip.

CHRISTINE KIM, DAUGHTER MISSING: So I tell her, I think this trip is going to be a very, very great experience for you, for your school days. So I'm very regretful. I'm very regretting this.

HANCOCKS: Dramatic video of the first 24 hours of the frantic rescue shows passengers clinging to guard rails and being airlifted to safety.

Most of the clues about what could have caused the ship to sink have come from eyewitnesses who report hearing a loud bang and feeling the ship beginning to tilt.

JAMES STAPLES, CARGO SHIP CAPTAIN: It sounds like it hit a submerged object which caused the -- a gash in the hull, which would allow a large ingress of water.

HANCOCKS: If that's the case, the gash apparently was large enough to impact several compartments below and ultimately capsize the ship.

Also in question, the handling of the evacuation. According to passengers, they were initially told to stay on board. This cell phone video thought to be from inside the ship shows passengers all wearing lifejackets. Outside the ship, only one of 46 lifeboats deployed.

These instructions heard from the crew saying, "Do not move. If you move, it's more dangerous, do not move," could have cost many lives. One of the ways relatives found out about their loved ones was through text messages.

"There are a few people in the ship and we are not dead yet. So please send along this message." Another student texted his friend, "I think we are all going to die. If I did anything wrong to you, please forgive me. I love you all."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And parents, feeling helpless right now, forced to wait 12 miles away from the site of that accident, passing each hour that ticks by, staring at the water. The huddle -- they huddle there, ponchos, crying, comforting one another, constantly checking their phones for new text messages.

They say the ones they have gotten from their children aren't being taken seriously, officials don't believe them.

And pictures like this, so similar from what we've seen from the families of Malaysia Flight 370, relatives so distraught and angry about the response to the ferry disaster, one even hit a South Korean government official.

And earlier today, several parents took a boat to try to go to the accident site. The boat had to turn back after many of them became so upset they fainted.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The quest for Malaysian Air Flight 370 has taken our Martin Savidge out of his simulated cockpit in Ontario to a very real submarine off the coast of British Columbia. Martin, how deep under the water are you right now?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, Don, I mean, we're at a depth of 30 to 50 feet, so we're not talking about any of the depth you would realize when you're talking about Malaysian 370 where it's believed to be, which, of course, you know, 15,000 feet.

But there are a lot of issues that we can sort of show you that are problematic and that would demonstrate. And, first and foremost, I've to tell you, it's just the cramped conditions.

Now, it's believed an ROV might be used, but I should also introduce Phil Nuytten here, who is an expert on this kind of thing, and we've discussed the ROV. There are problems with that. Even though there's nobody on board, it's tethered and it's got to go down 15,000 feet.

PHIL NUYTTEN, PRESIDENT, NUYTCO RESEARCH LIMITED: Yeah, that's a lot of tether, and that's a major problem is the idea that you have that much tether loose in the water column with all kinds of crosscurrent possibilities and that sort of thing.

Normally, it would be used with a deployment cage, so they would lower the cage with the ROV in it, and the ROV would then, you know, fly out of the cage. But that introduces its own problems because the ROV then flies out of the cage --

SAVIDGE: I'll just show you this real quick. Here's the diver outside. Now, of course, normally at the great depth, there would be nobody outside.

NUYTTEN: That's right.

SAVIDGE: But it just gives you a real sense here of the gloom. And that's one of the important things to note here, Don, is that we have lighting on right now, but there is a tremendous gloom out here. There's just particulate matter, right --

NUYTTEN: That's right.

SAVIDGE: -- floating in the water.

NUYTTEN: And it's kicked up by the thrusters, largely, from the sub.

So, any device used to dive on this wreck would have both vertical and horizontal thrusters, and as soon as they engage their vertical thrusters to lift, then they cause an enormous -- what we call a dust cloud, which of course is just a sediment cloud, floating in the water.

And it could take up to 10 or 15 minutes to settle down to where you can see, again. And, so, even exploring in the wreckage or around the wreckage would be a matter of taking slow, careful steps where you can see for a little bit and then you wouldn't be able see for a time and then you'd have to wait, et cetera, so --

SAVIDGE: Jeff (ph), I'm going to ask you -- Jeff (ph) is our pilot, by the way, who's -- you can see him cramped way in the back there.

Jeff (ph), do us a favor. Can you bring us up to full-illum (ph) on the outside, and then he's going to bring it up.