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Don Lemon Tonight

Search for Flight 370?; Interview with Elizabeth Warren

Aired April 23, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL WEIR, CNN TONIGHT HOST: Good evening. I'm Bill Weir. Thanks for being with us on CNN Tonight.

Everyday, his sons asked, "Any word on mom?" And everyday, he struggles with what to tell them because his wife was onboard Malaysian Flight 370 and he is among the hundreds of loved ones leaving in torturous limbo. In just a moment, I will talk to this man. At the end of the day, when a so-called "object of interest" turned out to be just one more in the long line of false leads.

Plus, Park Ji-young, young woman gave out so many life jackets to passengers on the sinking South Korean ferry. She had to run to the next floor to grab more. And then the ultimate act of sacrifice of 22-year-old did not save one for herself. Tonight, we'll highlight a rare sliver of heroism and a story filled with so much sadness.

And she says she's not running for president, not at all. But an awful lot of liberals hope she changes her mind in the next couple of years. And a lot of the real-time wolves of Wall Street have learned it's not smart to bet against Elizabeth Warren. She's the woman who battled the big banks V.P. eyes (ph) who become the first female senator from Massachusetts. Tonight, we'll talk sexism plus warfare and what she thinks about the other woman with the shot at the oval office, Hillary Clinton.

But let us begin with the seemingly never ending mystery of Flight 370 with CNN's reporters live in the region. Michael Holmes is in Perth, Australia. Ivan Watson is in Beijing, the intended destination home to so many frustrated families.

But let's begin for usual with Michael. On day 48, it was an emotional yo-yo. It says so much about the search that a piece of sheet metal could raise and then dashed hopes. What do you know about that particular object of interest?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. It's being ruled out. I've got a sight, Bill. Yeah, there are some -- hopes were raised. There's sort of a current of excitement or perhaps anticipation when word came in that an object about eight feet or so, long and about two feet wide had been found. This is down in place called Augusta. I know it well. I used to surf down there when I was kid. It's a lovely sort of coast old town and this would have really been set the place alike if it have been something. It turns out it wasn't. The police said, it took a back up to a town called Busselton about three hours south of here. Sent photographs to the investigators and they had a close look at it. And now, they pretty much ruled it out. They say it's got nothing to do with MH Flight 370 which is obviously disappointing. But the officials were cautious all the way along and say the more they saw the photographs, the less excited in they were.

Meanwhile, the Bluefin continues its mission. It's on mission 12 actually. Mission 11 has finished. Search officials is telling it's now 90 percent of that focused search area has now being scanned. The news of course is the same with all of those missions. Nothing of significant seen. Bill.

WEIR: And once they get to a 100 percent, what happens next?

HOLMES: Well, the search will move on. You're right. If the story is the same with the final 10 percent, we heard from the Australian Defense Minister David Johnston saying Australia was in consultation with Malaysia, China, also the United States on the next phase of the search. I think that was likely to be announced next week. But pretty much we know it's going to be involved that why the rock (ph) of several hundred miles along was suspected. A flight path also likely that more assets will be brought in. They're talking about a more powerful side-scan sonar.

There's one called an Orion for example. It's towed behind the ship not sent (ph) down on its own and sends back real-time data to the mother ship of course being towed. It doesn't have to resurface like the Bluefin, also has the ability to go much deeper. So we expect to hear more about that in the days ahead. Bill.

WEIR: OK. We appreciate it Michael. Let's turn to Ivan now in Beijing. What was the emotional ride-like for the families there today?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we asked one woman for example what she thought about this object of interest and was she disappointed when it turned out that it did not belong to the plane. She said, no, I don't believe in any of the information that they put out anymore and I think that underscores the suspicion that many of these families have about the investigation, about the search, about the information that they're being fed. There's a great deal of suspicion and doubt coming from many of these families that I talked to.

Another poignant note is this woman just recently posted a photo of herself with her missing husband, one in the passengers, both of them wearing birthday hats at a birthday celebration saying, "Honey, I'm waiting for you to come home." And I think that that shows also that many of these families still believe that they're loved ones, and there were 153 Chinese nationals onboard that plane still believe that they are alive now more than 45 days after the plane disappeared.

The family's committees that have set themselves up here during this agonizing vigil, they have begged, they have pleaded, they have demanded to the Malaysian authorities to send some kind of high level technical delegation to come here to Beijing to meet with the families to answer very specific questions, data points they want to know, information from the satellite Inmarsat transmitters that were onboard the plane. They don't believe that the investigators are searching in the right place in the Indian Ocean for this missing plane.

And there is a big gap in the narrative between what the Malaysian authorities have been saying and what the desperate Chinese families feel on the ground may have happened to this plane. Again, a lot of suspicion. And the Chinese families saying again and again, "You are lying to us." It is very dramatic to hear this day after day at the hotels where Malaysian Airlines has been accommodating this people throughout this long vigil. Bill.

WEIR: Given the lack of information, the lack of transparency, and their grief, it's certainly understandable what they're going through. Ivan thanks, also to Michael Holmes.

Let's end to that. Bring in two expert undersea explorers. Back with us Captain Tim Taylor, President of Tiburon Subsea Services, also P.H. Nargeolet, Director of Underwater Research for Premier Exhibitions. He is the -- been down to the Titanic more than any other man on the planet. Also joining us, Former FAA Safety Inspector David Soucie, author of "Why Planes Crash."

Tim, if it does get to a 100 percent of that search area, is there a chance that they'll go back over any of it that they missed something?

CAPT. TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT TIBURON SUBSEA SERVICES: They're covering that really well. I would imagine. But, what they said is the higher probability search area, 90 percent of the higher probability.

WEIR: Right.

TAYLOR: I would totally assume there are -- there's a much wider, maybe four times wider search area than they are actually saying. This is the highest probability. So, the only thing to do is, well, you get choices. Continue doing this, quit, or find another place to look. And right now, there are two options. Quitting is not an option, and finding another place is not an option yet. So, I would continue the search.

WEIR: What about the Orion and this other possible assets that they can drag behind the ship?

PAUL-HENRY NARGEOLET, DIRECTOR OF UNDERWATER RESEARCH, PREMIER EXHIBITIONS, INC.: Yes. But, first of all, I will say that it could not cover 100 percent because remember at the beginning, the Bluefin cannot go more than 4500 meter down and it were to place in this area where the area was deeper. I mean, they miss -- they have a (inaudible) some hole (ph) in their search. I mean, they cannot cover 100 percent with the Bluefin. And the Orion is a very good tool but its depending always the bottom.

You know, I hope that hydrographic (ph) British ship already finished them up because (inaudible) we do not -- you don't know which one is a best equipment between the AUV or the deep-towing sonar, you know. WEIR: You mean, down (ph).

NARGEOLET: And so, if it's very bumpy on the bump ...

WEIR: Right.

NARGEOLET: ... you cannot choose a towing sonar. You will have a lot of gap everywhere and that's AUV is better. But, if it's pretty flat or with some -- the towing sonar is very good. I mean, they should have a map first (inaudible) for example, we start with the map. We did a map and when we have the map, it's OK. Here, we can use -- because we have the Orion onboard. We had the Orion (inaudible). We have another ROV. We have three (inaudible). We have all this equipment because we've just -- when we get those, the map, it's OK. With all this equipment, we know which one we'll have to use.

WEIR: Should they be releasing at least some of the pictures of what they're seeing down there?

TAYLOR: Well, that will be nice for the families to see, you know, sonar pictures at the bottom of nothing is nothing.

WEIR: ... is nothing.

TAYLOR: You know, geology may ...

NARGEOLET: It's like giving a football field ...

TAYLOR: Right. And your question earlier, and I know you've gone all this -- if they're scanning with sonar unless there's an anomaly in the way that creates a shadow or something that they can't see behind, they will have a data. Granted they may be a little bit deeper ...

WEIR: Yeah.

TAYLOR: ... but, they've programmed it to go a little bit deeper and the other towing assets that they do bring those in there, they'll be effective but they still will take just as much (inaudible) not longer than the AUV. So they're not going to rush things long. They may help by adding two assets at same time. But you can't the AUV at the same time.

WEIR: At the same time.

TAYLOR: So you need another vehicle.

NARGEOLET: We could be in different area.

TAYLOR: Yeah.

NARGEOLET: You can (inaudible) like a 10 or 15 miles ...

TAYLOR: Two vessels. You have to (inaudible) ...

NARGEOLET: Yeah. We need two vessels. WEIR: Right. Let me ask our Former FAA Safety Inspector David Soucie. Malaysian Airlines now says they put together the preliminary report. I can't imagine how many pages that is. But, we have no idea because they're not making it public, should they?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Yeah. They should actually. The question is what's in that report. Would it answer the questions that the families are asking, and the answer to that is actually no. The only thing that will be in that report typically is just a description of the damage to the aircraft. There is no aircraft so there wouldn't be that in there. Then it also includes a situation process of where the aircraft went from, where it went to, and who did what, we don't have that either. So that wouldn't be in there.

The thing that I think is important that would be in there is that communication and who did the communication between the two air traffic control areas. So when it was handed off, communications before and after, and who made those communications and then subsequently what the air traffic control centers did to help to try to find that aircraft, that's really important information and there's no reason that that should be held from the public at all in my opinion.

WEIR: Let me ask all three of you. If you have to lay odds as to what will be found first something underwater or something on the surface, what do you think is more likely at this point?

TAYLOR: More likely, well, that's a good question, but more likely under water ...

WEIR: On the right ...

TAYLOR: ... in the right -- if they're in the right place.

WEIR: Yes. P.H.

NARGEOLET: Yeah. My feeling (ph) is that they should find debris first. (Inaudible) with debris, we don't know where is the ...

WEIR: Right.

NARGEOLET: ... aircraft. It could be a thousand miles north. We don't know.

WEIR: And David, what do you think? You think they'll find something down deep?

SOUCIE: Well, I think they will as long as those pings really were from that black box.

WEIR: Right.

SOUCIE: If they find that they were not from the black box, then we're talking surface debris by far.

WEIR: It's really -- it's worth repeating that that Air France flight that went down off the coast of Brazil, they had found debris within a few days. By three weeks in, they've found 640 pieces of floating wreckage and 50 bodies and it's still up to two years ...

TAYLOR: Right.

WEIR: ... to find the black box.

NARGEOLET: It was two years but not consecutive two years because we stopped some time, because it's like what (ph) happened with Malaysian, they will say, "Well, who is paying the bill?"

WEIR: Yeah.

NARGEOLET: And I mean, for example, when I was in charge of ...

WEIR: But if you could go down time down, how much was it in real- time?

TAYLOR: Four months.

WEIR: Four or five months.

NARGEOLET: Yeah. We did -- with the AUV, using the AUV, we did 66- day consecutive and we have to stop because it was the hand of the money and after six months later, we start again, and eight-10 days after, we found the wreck because we just -- we were ...

WEIR: You were so close in (inaudible).

NARGEOLET: Yeah. It was so close but we are short of money because during the first 66-day, we were devoted for -- because someday say, "Oh, there was a place where the submersible (inaudible) and we lose two weeks ...

TAYLOR: And then they have been running ROV operations which was salvaged and find the boxes. And so that takes time too.

WEIR: OK.

TAYLOR: Finding it and then performing the ROV work afterwards is time consuming.

NARGEOLET: But the debris for me is really essential.

WEIR: It is essential to keep looking for debris. OK.

NARGEOLET: Yeah, because (inaudible) ...

WEIR: Without it ...

NARGEOLET: It could be 3,000 miles north. We don't know.

WEIR: OK. P.H., Tim, David, appreciate you all you guys.

And we come back, my exclusive with the husband of one of the Flight 370 passengers. He has convinced searchers are looking in the absolutely wrong place for the missing plane. And also a woman who's on a lot of people's certain list for the Democratic nominations. Senator Elizabeth Warren tells me what she thinks of the frontrunner Hillary Clinton, later in the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We haven't the search. We haven't found anything yet in the area that we're searching. But the point I make is that Australia will not risk until we have done everything we humanely can to get to the bottom of this mystery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: That was Australian's Prime Minister Tony Abbott earlier. But no matter how earnest they are, there was a day when another promising lead came up empty. So we wonder how the families of Flight 370 react on things like this. How long can they live in limbo.

Prahlad Shirsath's wife Kranti was on Flight 370 and he joins me tonight once again exclusively via Skype. It's good to see you again. Thank you.

I understand, next month will be your 18th wedding anniversary. Tell me about your wife.

PRAHLAD SHIRSATH, HUSBAND OF KRANTI SHIRSATH, WHO WAS ON FLIGHT 370: Yeah. Next month, we are married for 18 years, the 18th wedding anniversary. My wife, she's very, very loving person. And all the time I have been dreamed of the (inaudible) years but there was no single day that's she's not with me although I was alone outside the country. She has been chemistry lecturer in the college. And I know on many instance, she has been helping her poor student, not only coaching, but financially with just helping poor students so that they get educated. Herself comes from the lower middle class family. So she was really always thinking about educating people and helping poor student (inaudible).

WEIR: It sounds like you -- both of you have gigantic hearts. You are an NGO worker devoted to getting clean water to people and even working in North Korea for a couple of years. You have two sons. How old are they and I imagine they asked about their mom daily.

SHIRSATH: Yeah. My eldest son is 16-year old. His name is Rahul (ph). He goes to the 12th class now. And since last 40 plus days, he just not able to concentrate on his studies. Every 15 minutes, he asked me, "Papa, is there any new news?" And then he had heard yesterday that Australian, some people, they found some object in the sea and then he said that "No papa. It's not (inaudible). They will never find there. They're looking at the wrong place." Every 10-15 minutes, he comes back. And the younger son, he's just going silent and he don't talk about anything. And then we start (inaudible) the house about (inaudible) different news, he just keep quiet or he will leave the place. So (inaudible) for the last 47 to 48 minutes. WEIR: That's horrible. So do you -- we heard reports earlier, some of the families in Beijing have stopped listening to anything, the Malaysian authority say. Do you keep it in to the latest information or do you discount all you hear?

SHIRSATH: Yeah. What -- we do get some e-mails and phone calls from Malaysian authorities and basically (inaudible). Basically, this is very, very dry information. That information (inaudible) is nothing. They just say OK. We are with families. We can understand the situation you are going through and we are searching so many kilometers, so many ships deployed, so many aircraft are deployed, and that's it. But they're not really coming up with real information related to the plane or related to its communication, related to its position or related to -- their about. They're not coming any real information. And therefore, it was very difficult to (inaudible) anything about.

WEIR: I know some family members think that the plane landed somewhere, maybe in Afghanistan, maybe in China, but those opinions are mostly discounted by others who are more concentrated on details, questions, those 26 specific questions. Where do you lie? Where do you think happened?

SHIRSATH: Yeah. Those 26 questions, we haven't forget that (inaudible) we have send to the authority. None of the questions has been answered so far. And if they are searching in the South Indian Sea, we don't know based how hard they are searching, what data do they have. We don't know and they are much (inaudible) ...

WEIR: The pinger I guess is -- it's the pinger they heard on April 9th and then also the fuel consumption patterns and the satellite data. It's the best clues they have.

SHIRSATH: But what they are seeing from the right from the day one, if you remember, that that's impossibly maybe we adjourned (ph). Probably, these are the words they are using, but they are not 100 percent sure (inaudible). Is it possibly these pings are from black box. If the pings are similar to black box, something like that. So there is at least uncertainty when they say something. They are not sure -- 100 percent sure about anything. So that is what is happening right from the beginning.

WEIR: This is a tough question but have you let go of the idea that you'll see your wife again? Is it just now a matter of ...

SHIRSATH: No, no. I cannot let go of that idea because still we have open (inaudible) really commencing (ph) my children and that she will come back. She has to come back. And because so far, we have not found any reason to lose that hope. Malaysian authority are not giving any information or any -- that solid proof that it is no more. We have no reason to lose that hope and we believe that many people -- it must have landed some of the -- if not in Indian Ocean for the last 47 days search and no single debris, it might be some other element. Right from the day one, day one from 8th March, when I heard that they have no clue about whether Boeing -- if Boeing is missing with so many people and they have no clue that I thought that it's a part of big game that is now -- just (inaudible) like this.

WEIR: Yeah.

SHIRSATH: It's more than work. That would be very hard for me.

WEIR: Well, I know it's cold to comfort I'm sure, but there are lot of hearts in America watching this going out to you and your boys Prahlad. We hope you could find ...

SHIRSATH: Yeah.

WEIR: ... some peace and we appreciate your time. Thank you.

When we come back, a hero in the midst of so much tragedy. Young woman who saved countless passengers on the South Korean ferry and she wasn't much older than those teenagers on board. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: The death toll in South Korean ferry disaster now climbed to 159. 143 people still missing the week after that ship of teenagers on a school trip went down in the Yellow Sea. And as the search goes on underwater, the investigation hits up on land. The captain, 10 members of the ship's crew have been arrested.

[A portion of this transcript has been removed.]

WEIR: And before I let you go, briefly, Kyung, has the posture of those divers behind you changed at all? No air pockets all this time. Is it now in recovery rather than rescue?

LAH: Well, it's really silent. It feels a little more silent here than it has in the last couple of days. But, take a look for your self, Bill, if you look out here and you see, just a sheer number of divers. They're all surrounding that barge. That barge and those two buoys set atop where the sunken ferry sits below the water 65 feet below. And you can see just from the number of divers who are out here that they haven't dropped as far as numbers.

WEIR: Yeah.

LAH: The urgency that we're seeing from these divers as they go into the water and try to find anything, that also has not changed.

WEIR: OK. Kyung Lah, I appreciate that.

Let's turn now the CNN's Madison Park also has details on one inspiring story amidst all these sadness. A woman name Park Ji-young, I understand you attended her memorial service just an amazing exploits that these survivors are telling about what she as that ship went down. Tell us about that, what happened with her?

MADISON PARK, DIGITAL NEWS PRODUCER, CNN: My colleagues Bella, Kim, and I visited Parks Memorial where she was in Incheon earlier this week. And there were so many flowers filling up the funeral parlor because there are so many strangers and people in South Korea who wanted to thank her for everything she did. There's such a sense that she was a young woman who wasn't much older than the students she was helping, who put her life on the line and wouldn't even put on a life jacket herself until other passengers were able to find a life vest.

So there is such an outpouring of, you know, appreciation for what she did.

WEIR: I understand, yes, she went to a different level to get more life jackets, refuse to put one on even as her fellow crew members were escaping on rescue boats. She closed the door, if you could imagine the whole ship turns sideways, she closed the door so people would have a pathway out, dozens of those survivors have heard a thank you. And have they been showing up and paying their respects to her family?

PARK: From what her family told us, there was one man who had walked in earlier this week and the family didn't recognize him. And they saw that he had some sort of a head injury. So they asked him who he was. And they sat down and had tea with him. And this man explained that he had blooded his head and basically this young woman had put a towel on him and made sure that he got to safety. And he told that he felt -- he told the family that the felt so indebted to her that he has to come by and pay her a visit and pay respect to that family.

WEIR: Incredible, Incredible. Your other colleague Paula Hancocks were saying that she got this job just a few months ago and dropped out of collage when there was a tragedy in her family, but saved so many lives. And it is one glimmer of heroism in this tragedy. Madison Park, I appreciate your reporting.

And when we come back, Senator Elizabeth Warren, loved by liberals, loathed by a Wall Street fat cats and some Republicans. But despite being one of the most popular women in government, she said she is not running for president in a couple of years. I'll ask her why when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: When she was 12 years, my next guest told lie that would eventually lead to the U.S. Senate. You see, it happened when she found her 50 year old crying, struggling to fit into her best dress so she could apply for a minimum wage job answering phones at Sears, a desperate move in the wake of her father's heart attack. "Is it too tight?" her mom asked, the girl looked her in the eye and said, "You look great." Mom got the job after that white lie and from that moment Elizabeth Warren has got a soft spot for all those families in the brink of ruin.

She became an expert in bankruptcy law. And in 2011, her passion for fighting American inequality spilled out and went viral during her Senate campaign against Scott Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own, nobody. You build a factory out there, good for you. But I wanted to clear. You moved your goods to markets on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers, the rest of us paid to educate. You build a factory and then turn into something terrific or a great idea, God bless, keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Those words have lead to victory. And Senator Elizabeth Warren's new book "A Fighting Chance" describes that journey from that little white lie into the machine of Washington. Welcome ...

WARREN: Thank you.

WEIR: ... to CNN Tonight.

WARREN: Good to be here.

WEIR: Some say that Barack Obama's obsession with healthcare reform is based on watching his mom get sick. I wonder if your passion is sort of driven by watching your folks go broke.

WARREN: I think that what I learned very early was that people can work hard, they can play by the roles and then they can take such a financial smack that it just turns it upside down and they can never quite get their feet under them again. A kid doesn't forget something like that.

WEIR: Right. You're ticket out of small town Oklahoma was the debate team.

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: When did you know you were good?

WARREN: You know, I just knew I was tough. I started debating in high school and figured at some point in there -- there was no money for me to go to college. But I realized there were places that had debate scholarships and that was my chance.

WEIR: And you had to ask you dad for a tax return...

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: ... so you could apply for a hardship scholarship.

WARREN: Right, yeah.

WEIR: And you never spoke of it having given back, it must have ...

WARREN: So, I mean I know we were tight on money.

WEIR: Yeah.

WARREN: We lost the station wagon, we nearly lost our house. My mom worked in this minimum wage job and she clearly -- she wanted to be at home. You know, by the time I came, my three brothers were grown, they were in the military. And I think my mom and dad knew what their lives were going to be until he had that heart attack and it just turned everything upside down. So when I got ready, I had this plan, I was always a girl with a plan. And so I had the plan that I found two colleges that have debate scholarship and I wanted to apply to both of them.

And I saved my baby sitting money to pay the application fee. And I figured, my plan was, I tell my mom and dad after I got admitted and I'd show them that college was really going to be free. This was something that I could actually do. And I found out part way through the process, I had to have a financial aid form.

WEIR: Yeah.

WARREN: And that then I had to see my parent's tax returns.

WEIR: And you saw and realized you were poor.

WARREN: We were poor.

WEIR: Fast forward a little bit. You are -- you get through with school ...

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: ... you get the records, you go to laws school.

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: Do you spend a lot of time in a lot of bankruptcy courtrooms?

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: I'm trying to understand that it became your area of expertise.

WARREN: Yup.

WEIR: So you heard this stories that fueled something in you, it must have.

WARREN: It did because I seat in the back of this court rooms. I gathered lots and lots of data about the families who went broke. And what I really thought I would find is that those were people who somehow, you know, going out to the mall and gone crazy or gaining the system. Instead, what this hard research showed was that people file for bankruptcy go broke, mostly for one of three reasons.

They have a terrible medical problem in the family. They're out work for a long, long period of time or there is a divorced or a death in the family. In fact those three reasons account for more than 90 percent of all the bankruptcy filings.

WEIR: When the idea of a consumer financial protection bureau came up, this was going to be the scalpel that you would finally get to fix this sick patient, but it turned out to be one of the biggest knife fights in recent political history.

WARREN: Yeah.

WEIR: But what was the lowest part of watching that getting rip to shreds?

WARREN: It's -- so I talked about in a book, we needed a consumer agency to be there on the side of families. Someone who would say, "Hey listen, you don't get to trick families on mortgages. You don't get to trap on them credit cards. You got to rid of that fine print where you're hiding all these stuff and make it, so people can read them." So that was the fight we got into. The worst part is we fight and we fight, we got the agency through the House of Representatives. That happened late in 2009.

In 2010, it's in the Senate and I still remember the day, the phone rings, it's early in the morning. I'm actually -- I've been down in basement on the treadmill. And I'm huffing and puffing and I pick up the phone and the first words are, "The consumer agency is dead." They're not going to report it out of the Senate. It's not going to happen. And here is the worst part. I said, "Well are we at least going to get a vote?" And the answer was "No." They were just going to suffocated in the crib. Report out a bill with no consumer agency.

And you know why? Because none of the senators or many of the senators did not want to vote against families by saying "We're not going to pass this agency." But they don't want to have to vote against the banks...

WEIR: Right.

WARREN: ...saying that they would pass the agency. So the plan was, deal what the banks want. Kill the agency but do it quietly and mysteriously.

WEIR: But that wasn't the end. It survived that near death experience. But you as the head of that agency, everyone thought that it was your-- the President then had pull you. You were just too politically radioactive.

WARREN: We went at it with a lot other volunteer groups, non-profit hammer tongues. We fought, we got that agency through. The Presidents signed into law as part of the Dodd-Frank forms. And then the President ask me to start setting the agency up. And that's what I got to do.

WEIR: Right. But you didn't get to lead it?

WARREN: No.

WEIR: You wish you had?

WARREN: Sure.

WEIR: Would you trade that in your Senate job for that one?

WARREN: So look, I made no secret out of the fact that I would have loved to say and run that agency. It had such potential.

WEIR: Do you think you have more power there to do what you want do than you do it in the Senate?

WARREN: The President didn't appoint me to stay and run it, but he put somebody in who's really good. In fact somebody I'd hired. But look what happened? I end up with the incredible honor of representing the people of the commonwealth of Massachusetts. I sit on the bank in committee where I can help protect that that little consumer agent.

WEIR: And you had a big say in who got to be head of the Federal Reserve Bank, which is an interesting story. We're going to get in Senate.

WARREN: OK.

WEIR: What's the difference between Raging against the Machine and being a cog in it when we come back. And this lead that I like from politico, the three words that strike terror the hearts of Wall Street bankers across the land, President Elizabeth Warren.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: The question I really want to ask is about how tough you are. Tell me a little bit about the last few times you've taken the biggest financial institutions on Wall Street all the way to a trial? Anybody?

THOMAS J. CURRY, COMPTROLLER OF THE CURRENCY, OCC: We do not have to bring the people to -- in a trial or an...

WARREN: Well I appreciate that you say you don't have to bring them to trial. My question is when did you bring them to trial?

CURRY: We have not had to do it as practical matter it's a chief or supervisory goals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: That is Senator Elizabeth Warren and her very first banking housing in Urban Affairs Committee hearing in February, taking on this country's financial regulators. And did you not get the memo that senators are not supposed to humiliate appointees from their own party?

WARREN: Look, I just have a really clear view on this and that is that the regulators who were supposed to oversee the banks don't work for the banks, they work for the American people.

WEIR: Did it work though? Does that have any effect? Because I want to show you a quote here, this is one from back when you were trying to get the Consumer Financial Protect Bureau up and running. You told Huffington Post, "My first choice is a strong consumer agency. My second choice is no agency at all and plenty a blood and teeth left on the floor." That's the kind of fire your base loves. Ted Cruz says something like that. Ever -- your base goes crazy. Does it work in the machinery, in the saucer of the Senate that supposed to cool down that overheated rhetoric?

WARREN: So one of the very interesting things about being a senator is that, I have learned there are a lot of tools in the toolbox. So, you know, we think about changing the world through passing legislation. And I'm all for that and I've got some great pieces I'm working on. I'm partnered with John McCain to try to get a new 21st century Glass-Steagall that say that, "In effect we got a separate boring banking from the high risk Wall Street banking."

So there is that, but there's more. There's a lot of law out there right now that the regulatory agencies have. But the regulatory agencies have to pick it up and use it. And one of the jobs of the United States senate is to oversee those regulatory agencies. And so when I have bank regulators, part of me and talk to them about whether or not they're really enforcing the law, then we've got an opportunity. We don't have to pass laws. We have to get them to do their jobs. And frankly, there have been some signs that there are changes now at some of these agencies and I'm really glad to see that.

WEIR: You talk about an episode in the late 90s there was a bankruptcy bill that the big financial firms are trying the guts. Ted Kennedy became your angel, trying to lead this thing through. You went to the first lady Hillary Clinton and encourage your husband to veto it. But in your last book you wrote that, after Hillary as New York senator reversed her stance on that, you wrote it seems that Hillary could not afford such a principle position as senator.

What's your relationship with her now?

WARREN: I think Hillary is terrific. She's out there doing a lot of good work.

WEIR: You signed a letter along with other law makers encourage her to run for president. Why don't you on the run for president?

WARREN: No, I'm not running for president. I am working right now on the issues I talked about in this book. America's middle class has been hammered for a generation now. My life's work has been just to try to level the playing field.

Washington works for those who've been hire an army of lobbyist and an army of lawyers, not so much for regular families. So I have had one fight after another, that's why the book is called "A Fighting Chance" in order to get out there to fight for these families, to fight to level the playing field. That's what I'm working on right now.

WEIR: But my question is less about ambition and it's more about your cost in the soul of the party, because if Hillary wins in a couple of years, odds are she's going to bring in the Robert Rubens (ph) and the Larry Summers, the kind of Wall Street insiders that you are sort of philosophically opposed. So doesn't the Elizabeth Warren Democratic Party matter to you as suppose to one lead by Hillary who gives speeches to Goldman Sachs?

WARREN: I think what we have to remember is that we live our values every single day. And for me, right now, what that means is fighting for the things we need to fight for not years from now, not down the line, leveling the playing field right now.

WEIR: When we come back, I'll asked Senator Warren about the idea that the 1 percent is awful lot of tax, gives a lot full at to charity and the idea of class welfare that we talked about at the very beginning. Stay with us.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

WEIR: Senator Elizabeth Warren, back with us now. What do you say to the argument? I just saw some statistics that the vast majority of taxes paid, charity contributions in Wall Street, in New York City comes from that demonized one percent.

WARREN: It's not the demonized one percent. Let's just be really clear, the game is rigged and it's rigged in favor of those who have money and who have power. Watch what happens in Wall Street. If you can hire an army of lobbyist and an army of lawyers, then you'll get what you need out of Washington. Washington will make sure that the rules work for you.

WEIR: But can you fix that until you can fix the campaign finance reform?

WARREN: Well that is a big party list.

WEIR: Your campaign cost $40 million.

WARREN: That's right. And you know what it took to make that happen because I think it was really important. It was a lots folks making $50 donations. You know, that 80 percent of our money came from people who made donations of $50 or less, god less every one of them.

WEIR: I know when you're campaigning, when you meet a little girl, you would bend down and say, "I'm Elizabeth Warren, I'm running for senate", because that's what girls do.

WARREN: You bet.

WEIR: But Rebecca Traynor I think from New York Times pointed out that that more women were burned at the stake as witches in Massachusetts, historically she didn't sent to congress. What has to change? How do you get more women in the seats of power?

WARREN: You know, part of this is ...

WEIR: And now you're seeing sexism at that point.

WARREN: Well part of it is that we got to bring in little girls, big girls in our grown women. I tell you one thing that's really important to me and that is whatever job I make it to, it's to look back and say, "Where's the next women whose ready to move up the ladder and let's bring her up?" You know, I never been a candidate for the United State senate before, but I'll tell you something about when I run, my campaign manager was a women, my deputy campaign manager was a women, the person who handled by media was a women.

WEIR: Now you have a women's bathroom, a bigger women's bathroom.

WARREN: And now we have (inaudible) at state senate. On the other hand, I got to tell you, we're not resting until we at least get 50 seats in the United States Senate.

WEIR: Elizabeth Warren, pleasure to spend time with you.

WARREN: It's good to see you.

WEIR: The book is called A Fighting Chance, a little life story, a little policy all mixed together.

WARREN: Yup.

WEIR: We appreciate it. And that is all for us tonight. Thanks for checking in. CNN's Special Report with Don Lemon, starts right now.