Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Murder for Hire Schemes; Toronto Mayor to Get Treatment
Aired May 01, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, crack mayor seems to finally capitulate and admit he has a problem. He`s been sent for immediate treatment. Is he accepting treatment? I`ve got a lot to say about this.
Plus, two murder for hire plots -- the first with a husband and wife, the second with two sisters.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And we have not one, but two murder for hire schemes to tell you about tonight.
Coming up, two sisters headed for jail after they plotted to kill a relative. All of it caught on tape.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: And the tape is insane, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Really? Is that part of it we`re looking at there?
SCHACHER: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: I think they were talking to an undercover cop.
SCHACHER: They were. The details are in insane. That`s all I`m going to say.
PINSKY: All right. Before we get into that, we`re going to talk about a vitamin tycoon allegedly offering his friend $80,000 to kill his wife. His wife was a model.
The one problem is the friend whom he was asking to kill his wife just happened to be wearing a wire. Couple was going through a nasty divorce.
"Good Morning America" obtained the recording. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FUHRMANN: I ask you a simple question. You`re positive.
GUGLIELMELLI: That what?
FUHRMANN: You want her dead.
GUGLIELMELLI: Oh, I`m --
FUHRMANN: One hundred percent? You`re never going to hear from her again. By the time we`re out of lunch, it`s already done. You just need to fix figure out how to pay me.
GUGLIELMELLI: I`ll pay you.
FUHRMANN: How much?
GUGLIELMELLI: You already told me how much.
FUHRMANN: Eighty thousand.
GUGLIELMELLI: That`s what you told me.
I`ll be happy when it`s all over.
FUHRMANN: It is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney. She`ll be into it. Really nice to give her this case to defend. It`d be fantastic.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I love it.
SCHACHER: Good luck, Anahita. Good luck.
PINSKY: I also got Evy Poumpouras, former agent with the Secret Service. Segun Oduolowu, social commentator.
All right. Anahita, let`s go to you first. You become the hot plate here.
SEDAGHATFAR: Let`s do it.
PINSKY: Do you have a defense for this guy?
SEDAGHATFAR: I absolutely have a defense.
PINSKY: Of course, you do.
SEDAGHATFAR: Of course, I do, because really, I don`t think this is a slam dunk case, Dr. Drew. I agree with that tape it`s going to be a much harder defense, because once that`s played for the jurors it`s going to be hard to explain that away.
But he`s going to claim this was a setup, kind of like the defense of entrapment, that his friend entrapped him into committing a crime he otherwise wouldn`t commit. And guess what? That is a legal defense.
And when it comes to that tape, Dr. Drew, we only heard a little tidbit of it. It hasn`t been authenticated. We don`t know if it`s been doctored, if it`s been edited.
So, we really have to wait until more facts come out before we run and say this guy is guilty because we heard this 20-second tape.
PINSKY: Evy, what do you think of these tapes?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: I think if that tape is authenticated and it is accurate, I think he`s going to have a really hard time --
SCHACHER: Right.
POUMPOURAS: -- you know, saying it was entrapment because you have him on the tape agreeing. Now, I know he doesn`t come out and say certain words. That`s indicative of people who have deceptive and who are also doing something that`s inappropriate. Most people leave out the key words, "yes, murder my wife", "yes, I want them dead" because it helps them mentally and psychologically remove themselves from the act. He`s putting distance between the murder and himself.
PINSKY: Yes. We work -- Anahita, you work in a weird system where people -- we`ve seen cases where people are subjected to prison sentences for sort of spurious evidence. Here`s a guy saying he wants to kill his wife on tape and you`re saying, oh, whoa, whoa, we can`t let that go in the courtroom.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s what you think.
PINSKY: That`s what I think, yes. I`m in this world. That`s what I think. I think I listened to a recording of this guy and he seemed to be - - listen, you`re right.
SEDAGHATFAR: It could be doctored.
PINSKY: All right. You`re going to build a case where this guy, his friend somehow doctored it to try to entrap him. Maybe he was in love with his wife.
SEDAGHATFAR: I hope you`re not on my jury, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: You better hope I`m not.
SEDAGHATFAR: I hope you`re not on my jury. You`re excused.
PINSKY: Anahita, or these lying eyes.
Segun, I don`t have a problem with the fact that we live in a free society with the First Amendment right to free speech. And now, everyone is being recorded. Is this a problem?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is definitely a problem with people being recorded without their knowledge. It seems like everyone`s doing it. I think we`re missing the really big elephant in the room.
His friend really did him a solid because his friend on the tape never says, do you want me to kill your wife? Do you want me to murder your wife? Which he could have said, yes, kill my wife. His friend, they used coded language, perhaps.
But that will, to agree with Anahita worked in a court of law because he never directly said I want you to murder my wife. Me wanting my wife dead is very different than me saying, go kill my wife, which he never says on the tape.
SEDAGHATFAR: Segun, you`re on my jury. I select you.
PINSKY: I`m going to show you guys, listen to how his defense attorney tries to explain the recordings. Let`s see if he lines up with Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hears the tape, they`re going to understand he was manipulated by somebody who was trying to help himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegations that there was an $80,000 deal on the table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s -- that`s the agent provocateur who`s talking. He does all the talking. He`s the one that is, in my view, soliciting. He`s the one that brings it up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It`s sad looking at these pictures. They look like a beautiful couple and they`re happy and everything. Tell me --
ODUOLOWU: Wait, wait, Dr. Drew, before you say they`re a beautiful couple, she was arrested for assaulting him. So, she`s no angel. Let`s not pretend like everybody is clean in this.
SCHACHER: Segun, her side of this -- I`m just presenting her side, her side to that alleged attack, she claims he went in the bathroom and he clawed himself and pretended she attacked him because she told him she wanted to go start her acting career again. So we don`t know.
ODUOLOWU: I don`t know too many men who go scratch themselves.
PINSKY: That`s a good one.
SCHACHER: I`m just presenting the other side. She spent the night in jail.
SEDAGHATFAR: She went to jail for that.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you. She`s no angel.
SEDAGHATFAR: The defense is going to poke holes in the motive evidence that the prosecution is going to produce. Oh, they were going through a divorce, oh, he was having a custody battle over the kids. Well, guess what, ladies and gentlemen of the jury? There was only one individual in that marriage who was violent toward the other and that was the wife. They were together for 10 years. There were no allegations of abuse or anything.
ODUOLOWU: Preach, Anahita.
PINSKY: I want to go to Evy.
And, Evy, again, do you get my point about the fact we`re condemning people based on illegally obtained recordings? This was in California where you can`t record somebody against their knowledge, without their knowledge.
POUMPOURAS: That might be an issue and that might get that whole thing thrown out. That`s the problem.
But I just want to say one thing is we don`t know what goes on in somebody`s household. You don`t know what brought this man to make this decision. But you also don`t know, you know, his breaking point, but as well as hers.
I just want to caution that you don`t sit down and have that kind of conversation unless you really want to murder or kill somebody. So, I understand certain things regarding entrapment and whatnot. But having somebody on tape verbally say, you know what, I want this done, just take care of it, I`ll pay you. I mean, that`s indicative of something devious going on with the husband as well, regardless of what the wife did.
PINSKY: And, listen, and listen, we`re going to talk about -- you`re going to hear about when he did decide, apparently, to kill his wife.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: You`re going to hear from him after the break. Our behavior bureau comes in and talks about it. Let`s go.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FUHRMANN: I ask you a simple question. You`re positive.
GUGLIELMELLI: That what?
FUHRMANN: You want her dead.
GUGLIELMELLI: Oh, I`m --
FUHRMANN: One hundred percent?
You`re never going to hear from her again. By the time we`re out of lunch, it`s already done. You just need to fix figure out how to pay me.
GUGLIELMELLI: I`ll pay you.
FUHRMANN: How much?
GUGLIELMELLI: You already told me how much.
FUHRMANN: Eighty thousand.
GUGLIELMELLI: That`s what you told me.
I`ll be happy when it`s all over.
FUHRMANN: It is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
I`m back with Sam.
And, Sam, you said there`s something about those tapes we should know?
SCHACHER: Yes. The other panel kind of glossed over the issue that he had had an extensive conversation with his friend first.
PINSKY: Before the tape.
SCHACHER: Before the tape. Then alerted police and then went in there specifically wired to get this information so he could be arrested.
PINSKY: Yes, but that`s kind of what they do, right? They sort of make sure you get these sort of statements clear.
SCHACHER: Right. But Segun was alluding to the fact that he just was setting his friend up.
PINSKY: Oh, no, right.
SCHACHER: When this is something that`s been building for quite some time.
PINSKY: Got it.
We`re talking, of course, about the millionaire, one-time millionaire, now bankrupt. He`s caught on tape allegedly discussing the plan to murder his wife, his model wife.
Bring in the behavior bureau: Kirsten Haglund, former Miss America, founder of Kirsten Haglund Foundation, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."
Wendy, there`s some report that he was mad at his wife for doing provocative photo shoots. Is that true, you think?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: He probably had all kinds of reasons to be mad at her, Dr. Drew. She was young, beautiful. She had a skin care line that was taking off and making money and maybe even going to eclipse his business, and she was trying to get his kids from him.
There`s all kinds of reasons to be mad. But there`s to reason to try to kill somebody. No reason at all.
PINSKY: These are pictures in question, Sam, that I guess she was kind of not so happy with.
But they`re in the middle of a divorce. How can he say anything about them?
SCHACHER: Well, here`s the thing. She`s had a career for a long time before they started having kids. But she claims but he forced her to give up that career as an actress and a model. I mean, she wanted to go after those aspirations again. That`s when he could not handle it and all this started to unravel.
PINSKY: Here`s more from the recording where he tells the informant, his friend, why he wants his wife dead. He says, quote, "When she went into her deposition and lied and said that I scratched myself" -- we brought that up in the last segment -- "scratched myself and she never touched me, and she looked me straight in the eyes and said that. That is when I knew I wanted her dead."
Kirsten, your reaction?
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, FORMER MISS AMERICA: It`s an incredible amount of pride this man has and he has a very inflated ego probably. And when your pride is hurt, you`ll go to any lengths to get it back to restore it. And what you see a lot of time with men who have fabulous careers and, you know, he was a former, you know, a rock star and all these things. He married a model.
He did all that to increase his own value in terms of self-worth. He was probably very insecure. And so, when this came out and she wounded his pride in this way trying to divorce him, he`s going to do anything to try and control the situation and eject her from his life, even going to the point of having her killed.
It`s absolutely despicable. But this is a sign of deeper insecurity.
PINSKY: Danine, do you agree? Insecurity, big ego? Or is this just a criminal?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I just don`t -- I don`t see enough on this tape or -- to even believe that this is something that he was planning to do. Honestly. I mean, I hear him saying he wants her dead, but I don`t see enough evidence, and if this is the most damning and incriminating part of this tape, I think the defense has a really good argument and I think the prosecution who has to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.
Now, I have a reasonable doubt so far just as who was trying to get who to commit the murder.
PINSKY: Anahita, get on in here.
MANETTE: I`m sorry, I hear him alluding to the fact he wants her dead. I don`t hear him saying he wants her dead and wants him to kill her.
PINSKY: Kirsten?
HAGLUND: No, he said in that tape he agreed every single time that his friend Fuhrmann came back, and Fuhrmann didn`t even go in with the wire as you mentioned until he felt the wife`s life was in danger. All right?
And you don`t just go have a conversation with someone about how you want to kill your wife and you`ll even pay someone to do it.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Beyond a reasonable doubt.
PINSKY: Hold on. I`m shutting mikes off because too much crosstalk.
Monica`s spokesperson gave us this statement. She says, quote, "She`s been living scared for a long time and just wants this nightmare to end.
Wendy, let`s put on your psychoanalyst hat, you know, this guy was effectively castrated by this woman. He might have really -- he might not have just been the ego. Men flip out if a woman they`re deeply in love with, that they`re really attracted to, starts hanging out with other people or diminishing their love -- you know what I mean?
WALSH: You and I have talked about this before. This is like mate guarding gone awry.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: If I can`t have her, I`ll make sure nobody else has her.
PINSKY: Yes, exactly.
WALSH: She`s going on what I like to call the divorce diet where she gets new boobs and lost weight and get new hot shots, which says she`s heading out on to the mating market and she has a high mate status.
PINSKY: I think some guy -- that drives some guys crazy.
WALSH: I think there`s a lot of narcissism there, anyway.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course.
WALSH: I have a question for you, Wendy. What is it about somebody that could be such a control freak and have the need to control to a point where they would commit murder before --
PINSKY: That`s what we`re talking about. That`s what we`re talking about.
SCHACHER: That would make somebody that way.
WALSH: I`ll tell you, the underbelly of narcissism is self-loathing. In other words, I need to make my life look perfect to everybody out there because if anybody sees that I`m human, they won`t like me so they have to get the perfect wife and perfect business and have to be a rock star and look good and all that kind of stuff because they fear that someone will see that they`re actually a human being.
PINSKY: They`re little and diminished like they feel. Danine, last word.
MANETTE: Do you guys even realize that they have a high standard of proof here? They`ve got to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. Not one time does he say, I want you to kill my wife, I will pay this amount.
They`ve got a high standard of proof here. He may just want her mad and want her dead. I am not convinced that he`s really trying to get this man to kill her.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: He said, I`ll see it in the paper? The guy goes, yep.
WALSH: He loved the fact it would be in the paper. He loved that.
MANETTE: He`s alluding to the fact. Alluding is not a crime. It is not a crime to allude to something that you want. It`s a crime to actually go out and do it or say specifically he --
PINSKY: Danine, I`m glad you brought that up, Danine. I`ve got a better case that`s more explicit. It`s another murder for hire plot with two sisters who were videotaped precisely while scheming to kill one of their husbands. And it is explicit and you will see it.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before Diane Hart and sister Vickie Brill get into the van, they questioned the hit man.
OFFICER: You guys want to hop in real quick.
SISTER: You an undercover cop?
OFFICER: Do I look like an undercover cop?
SISTER: You never (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know nowadays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he was. Part of a sting set up after Hart`s husband called police. He had been told by his brother if law that the sisters wanted to have him killed.
The undercover police officer explains that shooting him in the head would be quicker.
OFFICER: So, chest or head? What would you rather me do?
WIFE: Whatever is easier for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They agreed on a price of $5,000 which Hart would pay later.
OFFICER: So when you leave this van -- I mean, it`s done. I`m considering this is going to happen, OK? You guys are cool with that?
SISTER: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam.
Diane Hart will spend at least six years in prison for the murder for hire plot targeting her husband. The sister is going to be sentenced just next week.
Anahita, Evy, Segun, they all return.
Sam, tell me what you know about these sisters.
SCHACHER: I have a lot of really disturbing details, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Oh, really, more disturbing than that tape.
SCHACHER: Very disturbing details. More disturbing than that tape, absolutely.
So, number one, we spoke to the father and this is what he had to say. Quote, the older one, Vickie, the mastermind --
PINSKY: Is that the one we`re looking at?
SCHACHER: I couldn`t tell which one.
PINSKY: Can anybody tell us in the control room?
SCHACHER: I think that was Diane. That was Vickie in the video, the mastermind.
She would, according to the father, quote, and pardon my French, "screw a priest for the collection box." OK? So, that`s detail number one.
Detail number two is they are reportedly the motive behind this murder is the $300,000 life insurance policy. Now, surprise, surprise, the two sisters went against each other in court and also Diane Hart, that`s the divorcing wife, she claims that Vickie, the one that --
PINSKY: The mastermind.
SCHACHER: She`s the one that contacted their brother, asked him to be the hit man, and, of course, the brother then went ahead, called his brother-in-law and said, hey, these two girls are trying to kill you.
PINSKY: That`s a call we`d all love to get, right?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Your wife is trying to kill you.
The sister and undercover officer discussed how and where the victim would be killed. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER: He`s going to be there by himself tonight?
WIFE: Well, I`ll be home.
SISTER: We`re all going to be there because we don`t have nowhere to go.
OFFICER: Do you want me to wait until he comes out in the garage and get him out there?
WIFE: Yes, because I got my grandson in the house.
OFFICER: You`re his wife. How do you want this to go? I mean, you want it to be quick? You want me to shoot him? You want me to --
(INAUDIBLE)
OFFICER: What do you want to do? I`ll do whatever you want.
WIFE: Not up here.
SISTER: He`s going to be cremated.
OFFICER: Well, the fastest way --
WIFE: Yes, but if I go out there and get a gallon of milk, I would rather see him shot in the chest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Little piece of this tape we didn`t see here was that before when they were getting in the car to talk to this guy, the sisters looked to him and said, are you an undercover cop? You look like an undercover cop. He`s like, do I look like an undercover cop? What makes them say that?
SCHACHER: They took it verbatim. They`re like, OK, cool, let`s get what you want.
PINSKY: Let`s get on with this.
So, Anahita, even you -- even you -- when we talked about the sociopathic quality of the older sister, even you went, oh my God.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I mean, Dr. Drew, we oftentimes talk whether or not these people are purely evil, or if this mental illness? And I have to say, this is pure evil, because what are the chances that both of these sisters are going to be mentally ill? I say it`s highly unlikely.
And just the callousness and cold way they`re talking about this hit is just beyond belief. It`s like they`re talking about the weather or buying a cup of coffee. They`re laughing. They`re giggling. They`re saying, no, let`s shoot him in the chest, not in the head, ha, ha, ha, ha.
I mean, this is pure evil. It`s really, really scary. And what a wonderful family, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Isn`t it?
But, Evy, it does have a name, that kind of incredible disconnection from other people having any value. We call it psychopathy or severe sociopathy. What`s your thought?
POUMPOURAS: Look, my thought is this. When I look at any type of crime, and having done interviews on various criminals, there happens to be a disconnect, and people justify and rationalize doing what they`re going to do.
So, for whatever reason, after 17 years of marriage, this woman`s love, or passion, or whatever she had for him completely disintegrated, to the point where it became hate. She connected and felt that it was rationalized and justified for her to do this.
And that`s what you do when you deal with individuals like these, when you`re doing interviews. You want to help promote that. Be like you feel justified.
That`s what we have here. I do think there is a disconnect. There`s a severe character flaw. And the fact the father came out and said, you know what, there`s a problem with my eldest daughter, that indicates a significant flaw in her has well. Mentally, perhaps, as well. Something not right with that woman.
PINSKY: Well, the not right is, again -- I`m going to tell you. Everyone gets frustrated when I give these things a name. Just because it has a name doesn`t mean it`s not the domain of evil. In other words, we kind of know who goes on in brains, we kind of know goes to the process of people who think like this and it creates the soil, the circumstance, the opportunity for evil to flourish.
That`s what this is.
Segun, do you agree with me?
ODUOLOWU: Well, Dr. Drew, I find it very surprising that this a common thing in all of us. All of us can get to a point.
PINSKY: No, I disagree with that.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: Evy is nodding her head yes.
ODUOLOWU: Listen, we all have this --
POUMPOURAS: I`m with you, Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Evy, love you, babe.
POUMPOURAS: I`m with you.
PINSKY: You know, people in a breakdown of normal social structure like a war.
ODUOLOWU: No, but what I`m saying because we have it in us, there must be something that triggers it. And until it all comes out why these two sisters were so intent in killing him.
And I would ask Anahita this -- you say it`s purely evil. But legally, when they ask if he`s an undercover cop, isn`t the cop obligated to say yes or no? You`re the lawyer. So I ask you that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Everyone asks that question. They didn`t even, like, wait to hear his answer. No, absolutely --
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, he gave an answer. He did give an answer. He said, do I look like one? Which is skating the law.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Is the undercover cop going to go, actually, yes, I am. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I thought they were obligated to. Listen, if we`re going to trick stupid people, I mean, the jails would overflow.
SEDAGHATFAR: So, they totally are stupid.
Dr. Drew, you mentioned earlier on in the show --
PINSKY: Yes, I did.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- that there`s recordings everywhere. Everyone knows there`s cell phone videos, there`s even cameras on devices that look like pens. So, why in the world would these two sisters sit and have a conversation about killing somebody with a complete stranger they don`t even know?
SCHACHER: They were blinded. They wanted the -- they`re dumb. They wanted the $300,000. That`s what they wanted.
They`re greedy. They seem very callous and seem to have no empathy.
PINSKY: Evy, final thoughts.
POUMPOURAS: OK. Just to kind of bounce off Segun, Segun, I did a lot of undercover stuff and I never tell anybody I was an undercover cop. I don`t want to tell anybody because I`m going to get a bullet to the head. Obviously, you`re never going to say that.
I do agree there`s a balance between good and evil between all of us. Sometimes some people let the evil dominate more so. So, I do believe certain people in certain situations given the opportunity are capable of a lot of (AUDIO GAP) things and not inherently purely evil people.
PINSKY: One of the things I learned about this --
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Evy.
PINSKY: One of the things I learned about today`s segment, this segment, is that no matter what the topic is, Segun and Anahita will have opposite points of view, no matter what.
SCHACHER: The last slot, they agreed.
PINSKY: They started off -- they got near each other then separated again. No matter what it is.
And secondly, I really think we`re kind of working through, Anahita, what you said, this idea of free speech in the age of electronic recordings. What does that mean? What if you pick up something reprehensible incidentally?
But we`ve got to go.
Rob Ford finally admits what we all know. He is an addict and he`s going to get treatment, I hope.
And we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: Yes, I have smoked crack cocaine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When, sir?
ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: But, no -- do I? Am I an addict? No.
DR. DREW PINKSY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, the man who you`ve been calling and as known as crack mayor is taking time off to take a break to get treatment, get help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He made this big announcement right after word came out of another, yes, another video allegedly showing him smoking crack. These are still images from the video just being reported by the Globe and Mail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The publication saying the video was shot this past Saturday in Ford`s sister`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His sister Cathy Ford is a -- admitted drug addict. In several of the shots he`s holding this pipe. The long copper pipe. You can see from this behavior that he`s clearly impaired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. And I want to thank CP24 for some of that video. It looks like the mayor was unable to keep a promise me made an NBC`s Today Show just last November. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: All I can say, Matt, action speaks louder than words. I invite you to come back, give me five or six months and if they won`t see a difference, I`ll leave my work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He`s gonna have a nice lunch on words, I guess there, Sam. That was about five months ago. Anahita, Evy, Segun, with us. Sam, tell me about the audiotape.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER: OK. So, the audio first and foremost Rod Ford, cannot guarantee or even talk about the authenticity. He doesn`t believe that it is authentic. OK?
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: But according to Toronto Sun, they claimed that he was at a bar, ordering drinks, complaining about his wife and that he made some really gross sexual comments about a female rival candidate saying that he wants to jam her, OK?
PINSKY: Is he gone to treatment because of that or because of crack or something else?
SCHACHER: Well, that. OK. The audio was something a little bit different. Now, there`s also some photos that surfaced.
PINSKY: We saw those.
SCHACHER: Which I believe were in the package before. And those were some crack pipe photos in his sister`s basement.
PINSKY: All right, Evy, you`ve some thoughts about these tapes.
EVY POUMPOURAS: Yes. So, my concern with these tapes is that, I mean, it`s -- what more do you need, obviously? I mean, you have the information here and what he`s doing is, when you`re a politician, you can be susceptible to blackmail. If he hasn`t already been that we`re not aware of. And also there`s a manipulation here that we have to be concerned with. When you`re in that kind of position, you`re doing these things and the information like this is out there.
PINKSY: Segun, I have a question. Do you think he`s motivated because he wants to get well, because he`s sort of thinking back now, looking at all the promises he make? Like every addict. They try to do it. They try when they can. They capitulate. Or is this just politics?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU: Well, I hope he`s motivated to get well, Dr. Drew. It might just be politics. But I`m really conflicted about this. Because for all of his problems, I did admire him for his willingness to say, hey, if you want to come and get me, come and get me. I have demons and they`re open and I`m gonna fight. But if we`re getting to the point where snitching and tattle tailing is the way the world is going to where you can`t even trust your dealer, then rich and famous people are in for a rude awakening.
(CROSSTALK)
POUMPOURAS: Oh, my God. How can you focus on that?
ODUOLOWU: Because it bothers me. Snitches? Come on.
PINSKY: We just reported and all day yesterday and then two more stories today of people recording somebody saying the awful things and then snitching about it. And you were on the other side of those stories.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, I`m -- look, the message can get out because with him going to rehab, it brings about good. Donald Sterling`s message coming out brings about good. You remove a bigot. But snitching seems to be the way we`re going where nothing is private anymore. And that`s a slippery slope. That`s very dangerous. Because a private conversation is between you and I, Dr. Drew, we wouldn`t want that recorded. If it was, who knows how we would look if it was doctored and edited. It`s a very.
PINSKY: You know how horrible we are.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Segun and I get together, it`s a bad time.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR: How do you focus on a snitch in this case, in this situation, Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Because I`m an adult.
SEDAGHATFAR: I mean, is this really breaking news, Dr. Drew? OK. So, crack mayor admits that he`s an alcoholic. I think that`s the biggest understatement of the year.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SEDAGHATFAR: And if you really think about it, Dr. Drew, he`s still in denial.
PINSKY: Oh, yeah.
SEDAGHATFAR: Because he doesn`t admit that he`s a drug addict.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: And early when this story first broke, remember he came out and said, oh, I only have a food addiction, I`m not an alcoholic, I`m not a drug addict. Now, he`s admitting I`m an alcoholic. So, maybe a couple months down the line he`ll say, yeah, I`m a drug addict and will have like the Rob Ford trilogy.
PINSKY: Well, I`ll tell you what. I`ll bring him the Behavior Bureau. We`ll gonna get into this in more details. With their take on rob ford. I`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His mother called it a sad day, but he`s glad her son is getting help.
RUTH DIANE FORD, ROB FORD`S MOTHER: I had no idea it was as serious as it was. He doesn`t live with me. So, I don`t know what he does every minute of every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is a new video of Rob Ford`s mother. I`m back with Sam, and our Behavior Bureau which includes, Kirsten, Wendy and Danine. And if you`d like to join the conversation, tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN. #BehaviorBureau. All right, Sam. We`ve got some breaking news on Ford?
SCHACHER: Breaking news. This is what we know, Rob Ford`s attorney told CNN that he has left for Chicago. However, he did not comment if he was going to Chicago to enter into rehab. What do you think, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I think he`s gonna get treatment of some kind. The question is where. If he were smart, he`d head it up to Minneapolis and go to the Hazleton City Center. What do you say to that?
WENDY WALSH: Well, having flown out of Toronto and Ottawa many, many times to come back to Los Angeles, I can tell you that Toronto is the big -- sorry, Chicago is the big hub where you change planes. So, he could be anywhere in America. And if I were Rob Ford, I would be in Malibu.
PINSKY: No, no, no. No, no, no, no. That`s not good for him. That`s not good for him. This guy`s got too big an inflated ego already. That -- he needs humble, humility.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: But that`s why I suspect that he would come here because it`s narcissistic, big ego. He wants to be seen with celebrities, because those are his people.
PINSKY: What a catastrophe if he does that. My fear is, Danine, that the need is he`s going to come out of this being a book thumper. He`s gonna magically a flight to hell all of a sudden he`s gonna be perfectly well, and keeps in his recovery.
DANINE MANETTE: Charlie Sheen.
PINSKY: Yeah. That`s not a good thing either. A real recovery is humble and quiet.
MANETTE: Yeah, you know, I`m conflicted about this because I don`t really know whether or not he is seriously going into rehab because he sees that he needs some help or is that he sees that the election is slipping away from him. And he has enough time to get it together and to give the public the appearance that he`s pulling himself together in order to have a real good run for the office -- for re-election. You know, I`m hoping that he`s going to get help, but this guy is truly a liability at this point. The fact that the snitches can tell on him is one thing. The fact that people can get into him and, you know, basically get him on the ropes for something or basically, you know, really use this against him.
PINSKY: I don`t know. Have such a jaded attitude, Danine. I think, I need you to walk alongside to me to my life every day to get me the potential trouble I could be getting into. Sam, you have to say something.
SCHACHER: Yeah. I have a question for you, Dr. Drew, because I`m concerned about his family, his support group. Because we`ve seen interviews, the mother, and the brother, the sister, they`ve always made excuses for him. The brother and sister allegedly have also had issues with substance abuse. So.
PINSKY: And the mom. Somebody seem to be blaming the sister first.
SCHACHER: Exactly. So, let`s say he comes out of rehab and he`s clean. How important is it to have a support group that`s also clean and like minded?
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: Doesn`t seem like the family is like that.
PINSKY: Let me give this to the audience out there because this is an important point to make, which is that if you -- even if you stabilize and are treated and return to the environment which you were practicing your disease and expect it to be different, that environment is gonna kind of push you back into that same mold you were in, and eventually, you`re gonna relapse. What you want are the people around you, important people in your life going to Elenin (ph) or therapists, themselves, and if they`re not, you`ve got to recuse yourself for a while from the people that you were using around over support of you`re using. You`ve got to stay out of it. Kirsten, you`re shaking your head yes.
KIRSTEN HAGLUND: Yeah. Absolutely. You have to make sure that you`re not surrounding yourself with people who are enablers that actually hold you accountable. And sometimes that`s not people within your own family because you love them, and you know, we know with people in recovery you have to hit your rock bottom where you really want to get better. And I`m honestly not sure that he`s really hit his rock bottom. They approached him with the tapes, they said this is what`s about to come out about you. And he was like, I`m going to treatment, I`m going to treatment. So, maybe he`ll hit his rock bottom in treatment, but colstars (ph) had a role in creating this monster, we dehumanized him. He`s a larger than life character now. Everyone laughs at him. You know, he`s a person that`s struggling and he needs good treatment. So, maybe he`ll hit his rock bottom in treatment, I hope.
PINSKY: I want to get Wendy`s and Danine`s pulse on this, too. I actually agree about Kirsten just said. He just doesn`t seem like he`s completely capitulated, he`s given up yet.
WALSH: On the other hand, trying to be optimistic, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: He`ll be better.
WALSH: But remember I said this with the last time we had a round of Rob Ford stories.
PINSKY: Yeah.
WALSH: It`s like the media pressure is -- might help him reach his rock bottom. So, maybe we finally did it. And embarrassed him so much he`s ready to hit rock bottom.
PINSKY: Danine, give me a good jaded view.
HAGLUND: I`m a pessimist.
PINSKY: I`m going to be depressed when I go home tonight.
MANETTE: I think that this is a strategic role or move for him in order to make sure that he wins this election. I think that he`s really just decided now he`s going to pretend go to therapy and try to get help and then you know -- because he saw the election slipping away.
PINSKY: So, it`s politics...
MANETTE: Just my two cents.
PINSKY: Politics or health. That is the question. I`m praying it is about the health in the long run and the politics will certainly benefit. It`s like anybody else with addiction, if you deal with that problem, everything else in your life magically gets better. Deal with the addiction first before you do anything else.
Next up, speaking of addiction, we`ve got a footage of a man slamming heroin on a public bus. And we`re gonna show that to you, and I have a lot to say about it. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and we have shocking video from a city bus in Philadelphia. It shows a man who appears, well, it`s my opinion, certainly using an intravenous drug, probably heroin. That`s the one that`s usually used. Let`s take a look at it. A woman captured the video and shared it with NBC 10.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: See this man wrapping a belt around his wrist, takes a needle from his backpack, tying off that vein and injects it. He`s on a bus. Hmm, hmm, I`ll inject myself in the hand. It`s not insulin. That doesn`t go intravenously. The instant goes subcutaneously, and then he adjusts the belt a little bit to make sure that vein is tied off because he`s used up most of his veins. Surprising he can get something out of the hand.
Now, he notices -- eventually notices the young woman who is recording him. That point he sort of turns to her and says, quote, I guess you see me doing my thing, but it`s all right. I don`t judge. There he is. He`s tying it off. The man told her he`d been using since he was young. He often came to Philadelphia to buy drugs and like most addicts and I.V. drug users he had overdosed several times before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And you know, my opinion is this is what heroin addicts do. Philip Seymour Hoffman died people were awestruck he had 20 bags of heroin or 40 or 60. This is a heroin addict. Guess what heroin addicts do? They do heroin. And eventually they lose their concern for most things in their life including their loved ones, their job, their physical wellbeing, their hygiene. And eventually, you don`t care, you start doing stuff on public transportation. Let`s bring back Anahita, Kirsten and Danine. The woman who recorded the video is criticized for posting the video.
MANETTE: Well, yeah.
PINSKY: Who is that? Danine.
MANETTE: Me. Yeah.
PINSKY: Danine, it`s you, you`re gonna take an instant point of view. What do you think that`s going to do? He`s gonna get him arrested and thrown in jail and have another prisoner to deal with and go in jail, get back out and use heroin again.
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, the saddest part about this whole thing is not the guy shooting up heroin, it`s the woman who took the video and then posted it online.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
MANETTE: I will be so glad when it becomes criminal to indiscriminately videotape people and post it on revenue-building sites in order for your own pleasure.
SCHACHER: It doesn`t seem.
(CROSSTALK)
MANETTE: I`ll be glad when that`s something that is illegal to do. It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: It seems like we`re going the other way, counselor. We`re moving more toward documenting what people are doing then holding them accountable, whatever they happen to document.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR: Well, yeah, this wasn`t in a private place, Dr. Drew. The fact that he`s shooting up like that on a bus -- a public bus, with people all over the place, he doesn`t even take a moment to look around and see if anyone is looking. I think it just goes to how profound drug addiction is. That`s using your own words.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: He couldn`t even wait until the bus pulled over and stopped so he could run out or maybe even go to the restroom. It`s just really sad, and hopefully now that he`s been identified he`ll get the help.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: No, no way.
MANETTE: He`s going to be ridiculed.
PINSKY: No way, that`s not a guy who`s ready. Kirsten, you feel me on this one? You were nodding when I was telling -- making my sort of testimonial about this. Heroin addicts do heroin and they lose everything else.
HAGLUND: They`re separated from reality. They don`t live in the world that you and I live in.
PINSKY: Right.
HAGLUND: They`re not thinking rational thoughts when they want their fix.
PINSKY: That`s right.
HAGLUND: But it`s this voyeuristic culture that we have, where the screen, whether an iPhone, iPad or a camera separates you from reality. So, that person is no longer a person. They`re an object on your screen, and that takes away the human element. But you know what the sheriffs department actually in this case when this came up they said that they are going to create a text to 911 service. So, that if people don`t feel like that in like in that situation they can pick up the phone and call that person in because they`re, like, sitting next to them, they can text.
PINSKY: I tell you what, it`s great, but take this guy and take him to treatment, not to prison. For God`s sakes.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.
SCHACHER: And to Danine`s point. Don`t humiliate him. The most horrific part about this is that she seems to have no human emotional connection. Then you look on Facebook, Dr. Drew and there`s a page dedicated, 100,000 likes, to videos just like this of people using drugs.
PINSKY: There it is. There it is.
SCHACHER: On public transportation.
PINSKY: And I looked at the page and it`s mostly heroin addicts. Interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: It`s so sad.
PINSKY: Got to leave it. There we`re going on to the woman who is selling her virginity online. A medical student, and we`ll get to now see her. She`s revealed herself to us. Reminder, we`re going to talk to her publicist actually. Mind you, you can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. We`re back after this.
(CROSSTALK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You need the money? Are you desperate for money to pay for med school this way?
ELIZABETH RAINE: No, I`m not at all desperate for money, but it`s something that I`m actually -- the whole concept doesn`t offend me. I don`t attach a particularly high value to my virginity.
PINSKY: I can`t imagine you`re not going to get a horrible reaction from the establishment in academic medicine. It`s going to be intense. Are you prepared for that?
RAINE: I am. It`s something that I definitely considered from the beginning.
PINSKY: All right.
RAINE: I mean, that is honestly my motivation for staying anonymous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. OK. I`m back with Sam. That young woman you just heard is a 28-year-old medical student who`s auctioning off her virginity. She said she was staying anonymous to protect herself from the scrutiny of academic medicine. Trust me, it`s like a military system when you`re in that training process. She now, however, is no longer doing it anonymously. She has released these pictures I guess in a hopes to attract even more potential bidders. Let`s bring back in Anahita, Kirsten and Danine. And ladies on the phone, we have Elizabeth`s publicist, she is from Unique Media PR Siobhanne Sweeney. Siobhanne, why did she decide to show her face now?
SIOBHANNE SWEENEY, ELIZABETH RAINE PUBLICIST: The reason she decided to show her face. We`ve been mean to it for a while, you know, they say a couple different lawyers in regards to the situation and the outcome in regards to her schooling. And that was the main reason why she didn`t want to come out.
PINSKY: I don`t understand -- you said something there that`s confusing to me. The outcome regarding her schooling. What year in medical school is she?
SWEENEY: Sorry, she has already done her two bachelor`s degrees in biology and engineering and she`s currently completing combined MD and Ph.D.
PINSKY: What year in medical school is she?
SWEENEY: She hasn`t mentioned it in the media.
SEDAGHATFAR: She`s not in medical school.
PINSKY: She may not be in medical school. Anahita, what do you want to say?
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, why are we still talking about this whole fraudulent scam that this woman is perpetrating on all of us? It`s not true. She`s doing this for fame. We`ve seen other women like her doing this in the past saying they`re auctioning off their virginity. None of those came to fruition. By the way, the same woman said she didn`t want publicity, I don`t want to talk about this, yet he has a publicist on the phone with you and she`s putting out press releases. Come on.
PINSKY: I guess, she have on the question I have -- you`re Australian. She actually has to do this in Australia because it would be illegal here to pay for the sex in this country. How is this different than prostitution? How would she answer that question?
SWEENEY: Sorry, what was that last (inaudible)?
PINSKY: How is it different than prostitution when it`s an illegal act that`s paid money for sex?
SWEENEY: At the end of the day it does come down -- it is prostitution, money for sex like you have said. Yes, she would have to do the date out in Australia because it is legalized out here, prostitution, escorting, things like that in Australian.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on. Hang on, Danine. So, she says that it is prostitution, Danine you follow up, and then Anahita is giggling. I don`t see what`s so funny. It breaks my heart.
MANETTE: Talk about a one hit wonder. Anyway, I have a question.
SWEENEY: It does come down to.
PINSKY: Hang on. Let`s get the question from my panelist.
MANETTE: From what I read, she get`s like, this guy gets, like, 12 hours with her. And I`m thinking it`s going to be some like 90-year-old billionaire like Donald Sterling. I want to know what they`re going to do for the other 11 hours and 55 minutes they`ll have left over.
PINSKY: That`s up to the guy, right? He paid for it. But go ahead.
MANETTE: I mean, do they get to go again, or what`s the deal?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, she`s set a limit.
SWEENEY: It is.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SWEENEY: It is up to the gentleman what he wants to do and will discuss what the 12 hour date will involve.
PINSKY: OK.
SWEENEY: If he wants to go and hang out.
PINSKY: I want to go to, Kirsten. You look very, very troubled. Do you have a question for the publicist? I have about 30 seconds.
HAGLUND: It`s so concerning to me that we try to encourage as a society young women to for what ever they want to be defined by something other than what they look like. And here`s a promising young woman, she`s going to med school, has two bachelor`s degrees, and yet she is asking to be defined and objectified basically. I think it`s incredibly sad. She has a great future in front of her. She needs to focus on her school and find herself worth something other than just her body and her, you know, being a sexual object.
SCHACHER: She`s not in school.
SEDAGHATFAR: Will they come back, Dr. Drew? Will the publicist represent that they will come back on your show after the deed is done and prove with, like, a payment, cancelled check that this transaction actually took place?
PINSKY: I don`t -- we`ll have to ask that off the air.
SCHACHER: A medical degree.
SEDAGHATFAR: You have her on the air, but you have her on the phone.
PINSKY: She`d be very happy to.
SWEENEY: I`d be happy to come back on the show and go through whatever we can in regards to concerning that.
PINSKY: There you go.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m sure you will.
SWEENEY: Actually did verify her I.D. in the schooling.
PINSKY: I got to go. We`ll check that on (inaudible), and in the mean time, Forensic Files begins right now.
END
