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Dr. Drew
Mother "Tucked Kids In" After Killing Them
Aired May 07, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the killer mom, a bloody robe, a court delay, and physicians called in. Our behavior bureau has it all.
Plus, a teen`s out of control driving filmed and put on YouTube. Are viral stunts like this putting your life at risk?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. We are live from New York tonight with Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, a rape victim is speaking out after the judge in her case, gets this, tries to defend different sentences for what the judge calls different types of rape.
People on Facebook are not liking this at all.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Drew, I`m actually outraged by a lot of what this judge had to say. Not just that.
PINSKY: Oh, I --
SCHACHER: I`m pissed.
PINSKY: She said some stuff about the victim that got me. So, we`ll get into all that.
But, first, on to the mouthy mom trial. A medical issue delayed the trial. A bloody bathrobe was shown in court and an incomprehensible interrogation -- all part of Julie Schenecker`s murder trial today.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
POLICE: Tell us what happened yesterday.
JULIE: I just toppled over the last straw. My daughter, my 16-year- old was just mouthy.
POLICE: OK.
JULIE: And it`s ridiculous.
POLICE: OK.
JULIE: She calls me names.
POLICE: What kind of names does she call you?
JULIE: Stupid.
I forgot to get the mail yesterday. This is the worst thing that I`ve ever done in my life.
POLICE: Did you ever get smacked when you were a kid?
JULIE: My dad used a belt. We didn`t even think about disrespecting our parents.
POLICE: Do you know what kind of condition they`re in?
JULIE: They`re a mess.
POLICE: They`re a mess. Are they live or dead?
JULIE: I don`t know.
POLICE: What do you think?
JULIE: I hope so.
POLICE: You hope what?
JULIE: I hope they`re dead.
(END AUDIOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Vanessa Barnett, host of HipHollywood.com, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "The Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, Brett Erlich, host of "Pop Trigger" with our great Samantha Schacher, of course.
SCHACHER: Hey, Brett.
PINSKY: Let`s start with our journalist in the courtroom, journalist Mandy McGlothlin.
Mandy, start with the bloody bathrobe. How did that read in court? It must have been awful.
MANDY MCGLOTHLIN, JOURNALIST: When they pulled out that bloodstained bath robe, Dr. Drew, that Julie was wearing when they arrived at the murder scene, it brought out some emotions from this jury. As the prosecutor held it up to the jurors, looked directly at Julie what I would describe as anger or a how could you look. I believe some of these jurors have their minds made up, and unless the defense can pull a rabbit out of a hat trick, Dr. Drew, I think Julie Schenecker is going to spend the rest of her life in prison.
PINSKY: Mandy, thanks for that. I hate to say we`re all kind of hoping for that in spite of this being a bad story about mental illness. There are so many elements in this case that make us outraged.
And I`m telling you something -- I`m outraged what happened today in court, today. It got off to a late start because why?
SCHACHER: Well, according to Julie`s attorneys, they said that she was feeling a numbness in her legs, so the judge called in a doctor. And then, finally, they began at 10:00 a.m., Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I`ve been sitting in this chair long enough that my feet are a little numb, too. Should I stop the show?
SCHACHER: Yes, we`ll go get a drink.
PINSKY: Yes, we heard her on audiotape today. She spoke in court. She also cried. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, that`s not the inquiry and we`re not going to respectfully play that game.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not playing a game, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counsel, you need to take more time with your client because --
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Leeann, you`ve had intense feelings about this case. What do you got tonight?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you know, to me, she`s an educated woman and everything was in her words. So I believe that she wasn`t insane at the time of the murder. Everything was premeditated from going out and getting the gun, writing down how her teenage kids are pissing her off, and calling her names. What teenage kids don`t mouth off to their parents first of all, OK?
But to me, she seems like a bitter old lady. Oh, my kids are mouthing off to me, I think my husband is going to divorce me. She`s projecting all of these things that aren`t necessarily true and pissed her off so much that she went out and bought a gun. How about instead of buying a gun, go get a makeover, feel better about yourself, get out of bed, and cook your kids a meal, be a mom, teach them to respect you?
SCHACHER: Go talk to a doctor.
TWEEDEN: Yes. Well, I mean, I think that`s happened and didn`t want to do anything. She`s very self-serving. To me, she`s all about herself.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa, she had an abuse history. She had addiction. She had severe bipolar. Some sort of mood disturbance.
I -- she`s a very ill woman. Was it just too little, too late? Or was she really behind all the illness also a bad person which is what we`re kind of feeling here, isn`t it?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I think there has to be a little of both. Clearly, as a mother it`s hard for me to belief someone can just be that cold-hearted and that evil to kill their own children, and I think there is that level of premeditation, but we can`t deny the fact that she has a long storied history with mental health issues.
And as a mother, yes, you do get frustrated from time to time. I have an 11-month-old daughter who still doesn`t sleep through the night. So, yes, I have those moments where I`m like, ah, oh my God, what`s happening?
But you don`t ever go that far. You don`t -- a sane person doesn`t kill their children because she`s mouthing off or because they don`t do what they want her to. I can`t fathom that.
PINSKY: But, Vanessa, you just said the magic sort of word there, is she just not sane and should she have a defense of insanity?
BARNETT: I believe so. I believe that, yes, people keep saying it`s premeditated. But I believe it can be premeditated and insane.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough.
Brett, your turn. We`ve not heard from you. Go ahead. Let`s have at it.
BRETT ERLICH, POP TRIGGER: Hey, if you look at the Florida law, it says you don`t have to be insane to get offered insanity, you have to be insane and also not know what you`re doing is wrong. She clearly knows what she`s doing is wrong.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
ERLICH: Especially by the quote where she says this is the worst thing I`ve done in my life, going up to her husband and spitefully saying that it stops your heart cold. Those kinds of things -- driving out of town to a place where people would maybe not find out that she bought a gun then waiting for three -- these are things --
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
ERLICH: You know what you did is wrong. It is us that projects the insanity on her, saying you have to be insane to kill your kids, but this is a terrible act that doesn`t mean you`re insane. You can just be terrible and disturbing.
BARNETT: Does insane need to be redefined? I don`t think you can be sane and kill a kid for being mouthy.
PINSKY: Hang on. Ladies. Stop, stop. I`m going to bring a behavior bureau to talk about that issue. Sometimes when you`re insane, hearing voices and thinking delusional thoughts, you believe you`re saving your kids from something by killing them.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on, all you. I got to go to break. What she said was in some of the documentation was that she didn`t want them to have a mother who killed herself. So she didn`t go kill herself. She didn`t want them to have bipolar order as she did and suffer the way she has, completely miscalculated. These kids were actually healthy which is what`s sad.
Listen, she did want to kill herself, but she didn`t -- surprise. Behavior bureau has a lot to say about it when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POLICE: Do you know what the difference between suicide and homicide is?
JULIE: Suicide, you kill yourself. Homicide, you kill someone else.
POLICE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come she didn`t kill herself after killing the kids?
JULIE: I wrote a suicide note. It was really long.
POLICE: Right. And that`s what your intention was to do after, was to kill yourself?
JULIE: Yes.
POLICE: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was suicidal but didn`t finish the act, herself.
PINSKY: Magically.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that`s what`s interesting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Magically, indeed. Back with Sam live from New York City. Here at the CNN Center at Columbus Circle. Schenecker says she meant to kill herself, too, but surprise, that one, that piece of the plan didn`t work out so well.
Let`s bring in behavior bureau: Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist, and Tiffanie Davis Henry --
SCHACHER: With a new do.
PINSKY: No, no, forget a new do. I`ve never met this woman before.
She`s also a psychotherapist. I`m not sure who she is, but somebody sitting in with the name, Tiffanie.
So, Tiffanie, let me go to you first. We love all the Tiffanies that have been on our show and they`re all gorgeous and thoughtful professionals. So, let me talk to this one. I`m sure she`s like the rest.
If you`re a hired gun brought in by the defense, where would you put your focus?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think you have to -- first of all, I wouldn`t take this case. There`s no way I would get on the stand and defend this woman.
However, I think you have to play on each of the jurors` sympathies. You bring up things like that long-term mental illness. The chronic mental illness that`s not been successfully treated, might I add. You would bring up that history of childhood molestation. The defense brought that up in their opening argument and talked about how she was molested at age 6 and testified against her abuser, also that she was arrested again as a teenager. You bring that up.
And, then, you also bring up the likelihood of an interaction between the medications she was on and the alcohol. We don`t know how med compliant she was or what meds she took that night.
PINSKY: Yes, yes, right.
HENRY: And what meds were interacting with alcohol.
PINSKY: I think that`s right.
HENRY: So, you`d bring up all of that.
PINSKY: Yes, I think you go to the med, the biological, pharmacological route. This deserves an emphasis. Listen. Just because she was sexually and physically abused and what she suffered as a child does not equate with violence in killing your children. Millions of people are -- have those childhood experiences. They are very productive members of society. They carry a special pain but they don`t kill their kids.
HENRY: She went on after that to have a very successful career.
PINSKY: Yes, yes.
SCHACHER: Twenty years of mental illness. She was no stranger to talking to a psychiatrist, going to a hospital.
So, when she admitted she`s had these thoughts for a long time about killing her kids, why didn`t she bring that up to one of the psychiatrists or somebody? That`s where she is at fault.
PINSKY: Well, I want to go to Judy who had the theory. She`s the one that really proposed the theory in the first place she was believing she was saving her children from the very illness from which she was suffering.
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely, Dr. Drew, which is what she documented in her journal. And, oftentimes, people who have psychosis that holds together, there`s a major theme, they can be quite cognizant of what they`re planning and they actually seem to be quite linear in terms of carrying out the delusion.
So, this is why it`s kind of strange.
PINSKY: OK. I`m going to play Leeann. Why can`t we call that evil, the delusional thoughts? I think it`s a rose by any other name. It is evil, thinking, right?
HO: But in her mind, she doesn`t think she`s evil. In her mind, she believes she`s doing the best she can for her children. She mentioned in her journal that bringing up the children was the best thing she`s ever done bought she`s so afraid they will be subject to the type of pain and suffering that she has to go through because of the genetic link they have.
PINSKY: All right. I got you.
HO: It`s a protective thing.
PINSKY: OK, I get you.
Now, Erica, I`m going to go to you and ask a question that`s a little bit of a -- again, I`m being polemical here -- but this is such a disturbing case I want to look at it from all the different angles. The dad, the father, listen, hats off to him. He served his country. He must have been completely burned out by taking care of this woman.
But would he have been better off if he divorced her years before and been more structured in the way he dealt with her? Does he have any culpability here?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100: Well, the first thing I want to say is I do think she`s insane. I agree with Dr. Judy Ho. This was absolutely psychosis. She was de-compensating getting worse and worse and worse. Where were the psychiatrists monitoring her? That`s the first piece.
The second piece, and especially with her saying that she was trying to save them from committing suicide as well, which is a -- she said most children of people who want to commit suicide, that doesn`t make sense. She was completely out of it, one.
Two, the husband, I feel bad saying this. I`m sure he didn`t want this to happen. There was a major lapse in judgment leaving two weeks before with the children in the sole care of --
PINSKY: But, Erica, he was deployed, Erica.
SCHACHER: He had no choice.
AMERICA: A family member. Anybody else. It was not the right decision.
SCHACHER: Hold on.
PINSKY: The mother was involved.
SCHACHER: I have to defend this guy.
PINSKY: One at a time.
SCHACHER: I have to defend this dad.
PINSKY: We`re limited on time.
SCHACHER: I did research on this dad, read the e-mails between the two of them. First of all, he had to pay the bills because she did not work and he did not only provide an additional caretaker during some times --
PINSKY: Oh, he did.
SCHACHER: Yes, he did.
PINSKY: Her mom was there, too, right?
SCHACHER: His mom.
PINSKY: His mom.
SCHACHER: He did above and beyond.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: Above and beyond.
PINSKY: We got to break. Got to go. Thank you, guys.
Erica, I`ll give you last thought. 15 seconds.
AMERICA: I was saying if you were thinking why didn`t he break up with her? I think he might have had those husband goggles like I say, the mother goggles on, and they can`t see how severe the situation really is because they want to think everything`s OK. And that`s why he decided to leave his children with them in her care.
PINSKY: And let me be clear, I`m not suggesting people have mentally ill family members should leave them. I`m not suggesting that. I want to explore these things.
In fact, I would encourage people to stick in with people, help them, support them. Usually you can anticipate positive outcomes and thorough good treatment. But the loved one has to participate in treatment. The only card you have sometimes is saying I`m going to leave if you don`t do the treatment, deal with this addiction, get sober, let`s get on this.
And I`m not sure that happened. All I`m saying.
Next, a dad is shot dead but his son keeps calling for him to work saying he`s sick, he`s out sick, when the kid is living with a dead body. Behavior bureau sticks around for this one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirteen-year-old Kai Kelly (ph) got his hands on a rifle. Kai fired at least two shots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was one to the back of the head and one to the temple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kai ended up calling in every day, reporting his father sick at work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had been dead for around six days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While the boy admitted his father was dead, the sheriff says there`s still no motive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Live with you from New York. I`m with Sam, and the behavior bureau is back, Judy, Erica, and Tiffanie.
Now, the 13-year-old boy tells police he killed his father and lived with the body in the home for more than a week. The only time I`ve ever seen that kind of behavior is when the child is being severely abused. Only time I`ve seen a shotgun at a close distance, you know, is severe abuse.
Judy, can you make any other sense of this than that?
HO: Absolutely, Dr. Drew.
So, as you mentioned when we see this happening the most common thing to explain it is the child has been severely abused.
It`s also confusing because most of these children don`t have any kind of violent history. That`s also a common theme in the research. They`re not violent. They really don`t see any other way out of it. They feel isolated. They don`t know if there are any other options.
In fact, they don`t revel in the killing. They disassociate from it. Which makes sense because when you read this story he`s been calling in for his dad telling his boss that his dad is sick and he`s been just living there with a dead body.
It`s not because he`s actually this anti-social case that`s, like, excited that his dad is rotting around.
PINSKY: Or, well -- or, Erica, is it possible what Judy`s saying is, in fact, the case that this is the beginning of some sort of horrible psychopathy that really was -- I don`t know why they`re not presenting a history of severe abuse here.
I mean, I`ve talked to patients who`ve held a shotgun at their father`s sleeping head when they were severely, severely abused. They didn`t pull the trigger, thank God. This kid did. Is it that or is it something else?
AMERICA: OK. We definitely need a mental health history of the child, the kid, as well as a family history. Now, it was noted the mother has not been living in the house for a year and a half. Usually when parents separate they move with the mother.
So, I want to know what`s going on in that family dynamic. What was the relationship with the boy and dad?
PINSKY: That`s not enough to cause a shotgun shell in the head. That`s not enough for that.
AMERICA: No. The fact that it was so severe and up to the head means it`s very rageful. Very passionate. So, something very intense happened.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: And also --
PINSKY: Or very sick.
AMERICA: And the fact that he called him out every day, obviously, the gig was going to be up at some point. So, that means he might not have been all there. What was the point of that? He obviously was going to get -- was he going to keep calling out for a year?
SCHACHER: And he shot his father twice. Once from far away, and then once on contact. On the temple. So, clearly this was not a spur of the moment crime or this wasn`t an accident. He wanted to kill his dad. But I do wonder why is the mom not living there anymore? There was a domestic dispute. The police was called to the house a year prior this incident.
PINSKY: Interesting.
SCHACHER: Between the parents. I`m curious about that. There`s a lot of unanswered questions here.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, settle the score then we got to go.
HENRY: Well, I`m caught somewhere in the middle, of course. You know, I think --
PINSKY: I figured.
HENRY: -- it`s common for kids to say and think even I want you dead, I wish you were dead, but it`s uncommon for them to carry it out and do that. He was in trouble for doing some graffiti.
The police were also already involved. The father was supposed to meet the police. I think that same afternoon about this graffiti incident. So maybe he just felt as though, you know, I don`t want to get in anymore trouble, I`m tired of dealing with this, tired of you coming down on me for it, killed him and didn`t think about the consequences and didn`t think it all the way through.
PINSKY: All right. That would be a psychopath in training right there. Not in training, fully executed.
Next up, students fight in a classroom. So why is the teacher in trouble? Back with more of this raw unverified cell phone video in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This vicious fight went down inside a high school classroom last Friday. Two students pounding on each other and when the two go to the floor it looks like one student is going to inflict serious damage on the other. That`s when 31-year-old first-year teacher Tiffany Eaton (ph) smacks one of the students on the back with a broom handle, desperately trying to stop the fight. For her actions with that broom, Eaton was fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter is every bit of 5`2" and her reaction was -- it was just in the best interest of the student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, she ain`t got no job. She was a good teacher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Instead, teachers are to call security on a two- way radio. Davis indicates Eaton`s radio wasn`t working.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Outrageous. We are back from New York tonight with Samantha Schacher. That fight happened in a high school classroom in Detroit. And you saw the video of the teacher used the broom to try to break it up.
She`s not only been fired, she also faces child abuse charges.
Let`s bring our panel back in -- Vanessa, Leeann, Brett.
My question to you, first, Vanessa. Did the school -- I`m going to ask it in a way that I know is going to raise your blood pressure a little bit. Did the school do the right thing by firing this lady?
BARNETT: You know what? You may be surprised. Initially upon first viewing the video, I`m like, well, what should she have done? The kids were going crazy in the classroom. What do you expect her to do? She has to protect the kids and herself.
But then I switched and I thought of it as a parent. Don`t hit my child with a broom because I will do the same thing to you. You don`t know if you`re hitting the attacker or hitting the kid that is defending himself. What if she hurt the child even more with this random broom that she got out of --
SCHACHER: Then that`s their fault, Vanessa, for getting in a fight. This wasn`t a normal little scuffle. These two 17-year-olds were going at it. Desks were flying.
This was insane. Thank God this teacher intervened.
BARNETT: Intervened?
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Yes, if they got hurt with a broom --
SCHACHER: What else is she supposed to do?
BARNETT: I`m coming in here. Don`t hurt my kid with a broom.
ERLICH: Let me jump in here.
PINSKY: Brett, go ahead.
ERLICH: I think the operative thing here is to find out what is appropriate to hit your kids with? Is it a broom, is it a mop, is an eraser? Is it a Mr. Clean magic eraser? I think if we agree on something. This was a new school that recently gotten taken over by an agency that is assigned to come in and fix the problems here, and I think that should be one of them.
TWEEDEN: It just came down --
PINSKY: All right, Leeann. Hang on, Vanessa. Hold on, one at a time. Leeann, strangely -- wait, wait. Leeann, strangely, myself and Samantha seem to have adopted many of your attitudes lately, and so, we are representing you thus far in this conversation.
TWEEDEN: That`s for real? Thank you, guys, for supporting me. I just tell it like it is. A, I think the teacher should get her job back. B, thank God she had the ball to actually stand in front of the two of them. After she hit them with the broom, they stood up and she was caught in the shuffle. I mean, those two kids were almost twice as big of her. OK. None of the other male students in the classroom were even attempting to help her. One girl was screaming at the top of her lungs. Everybody else had their cell phones out recording it but not doing anything to help her. Am I think the school should be held partially responsible because they provided a system that did not work just like if their fire alarm system didn`t work, they`d probably be fined. So, they need to work on that and do better, but they should reinstate her. And come on, it`s Detroit. I don`t think there`s a lot of teachers there waiting in line to get a job.
PINSKY: Well, that`s a.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER: My mom was a teacher in inner city Detroit. And I`m telling you.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: No kidding.
SCHACHER: It was rough. Yeah. And so, I commend this teacher, and there is a change.org petition going around trying to reinstate her position. And I hope that she gets it.
TWEEDEN: Agree.
SCHACHER: And if she didn`t do anything at all, I bet everybody would be outraged about that.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s my (inaudible) challenge. Vanessa. Vanessa. Hold on. Vanessa, I want to challenge you with this. What if these kids had really gone out at each other and one kid got a severe head injury or got to be -- one died? Then you`d be wondering why the teacher didn`t pick up a broom and hit them over the back.
VANESSA BARNETT: And then -- that is when I would say the school is held responsible. The radio like you said -- the radio didn`t work. They didn`t provide her with the tools she needed to break up a fight of this magnitude. But where do we draw the line? Everyone`s saying, yeah, congratulations, you used this broom, but last night we were condemning shovel girl, because she got hit in the head with a metal shovel. Where do you draw the line?
PINSKY: Hold on.
ERLICH: She should definitely not -- go for it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Brett, finish. Last thought, Brett, then I`m going to draw the line.
ERLICH: She should not have used the broom. Everyone knows this, but every second in a fight like that probably to her seemed like an eternity, and she didn`t jump right in.
SCHACHER: Exactly. And those were big guys punching each other really hard. That`s was like.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I think she should have.
ERLICH: Stop them after she hit him, the guy bounced right back up and punched the guy got hit in the back.
PINSKY: Maybe if she`d taken two of the chalk erasers you boys cut that out. You slam those erasers.
SCHACHER: You really thought about that.
PINSKY: No, I didn`t really think about that.
ERLICH: They were fighting over who got to get hit with a broom.
TWEEDEN: Give her her job back. >
PINSKY: All right. Next up, another viral hit. A teenager swipes dad`s car, rips it off and goes on what he calls an idiot driving rampage. That`s his words. And our behavior bureau will discuss, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Again, we are live tonight from New York with co-host Samantha Schacher here with me. An 18-year-old high school student arrested after he posted a video to YouTube with the title, me driving like an idiot and, well, he pretty much got it. That`s pretty much what it is. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(18-YEAR-OLD DRIVING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow. Well, here`s what the car looked like. Three other people were injured. He had to be air lifted to the hospital which is, in fact, from where he uploaded that video. He was just looking in the hospital bed, and uploads a video about him driving like an idiot. Let`s bring back to the behavior bureau, Judy, Erica, and Tiffanie. Erica, I`ll give you first crack at this. What`s your reaction?
ERICA AMERICA: Yes. Well, you know when they say listen to someone when they tell you something about themselves because it`s probably true? Well, you know what, you nailed it, you`re an idiot. OK? You are an absolute idiot. Now, of course we have to rule out whether it was substance abuse or not, but either way the driving, the leaving the scene of the crime, the posting of the video shows, you know, completely being reckless, horrible judgment and narcissism, which to me is almost like is this, you know, borderline anti-social personality, someone who would do this? We really need to watch this kid and do a thorough evaluation to see what`s going on with him.
PINSKY: Well, it`s an interesting question. And then, Tiffanie, the next thing that sort of occurs to me is we`ve been asking this for a couple days, does everything have to be publicly posted? Why -- What was he thinking when he posted something like this online? And by the way, at the point in which he posted it, he was not really being seriously investigated by the cops and when they saw the video, they`re like, we`re going back after this kid.
SCHACHER: He is an idiot.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D.: What a dummy. What a dummy. And I think, Dr. Drew, you asked a real important question but kind of a nonsensical question. What was he thinking? He wasn`t thinking. He wasn`t thinking. At all. Not at all. And I think that this is one of those cases, I agree, there`s a bit of narcissism, there is that let me show you kind of what I`ve done, and let me get my 15 minutes of fame. This culture of posting everything online is what`s getting a lot of criminals in trouble. And so, while I hate that they do it, I`m glad they do it because it puts people, the right people behind bars and keeps idiots like this off the street.
PINSKY: Well, that`s interesting. I want to bring in a police officer. Eugene Griffith of the New Sperna beach department -- police department. Officer, you may have heard the conversation we`re having here. Are we sort of -- do you think we`re right here?
EUGENE GRIFFITH: Yeah. I think you`re right on there. We appreciate that he posted the video, but it just shows that this was a selfless act.
SCHACHER: Officer, I have a question for you. Did I read that he did not even have a license? And why was that?
GRIFFITH: That`s correct. He was never, ever issued a driver`s license and actually took the vehicle without his parents` permission.
PINSKY: Wow. Do you think he was under the influence? Have you got the toxicology reports back yet or just still waiting on that?
GRIFFITH: Yeah, we`re still waiting on that. And you know, we`re kind of believing that he`s probably under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
PINSKY: Yeah.
GRIFFITH: Definitely with what he showed us.
PINSKY: Yeah. Judy, I wonder if you have a question for the officer. I haven`t heard from you yet.
JUDY HO, PH.D.: Yeah. Hi, officer. You know, I was just thinking as we were watching this video that we really just bred a generation of social voyeurs(ph) and exhibitionists who even after getting themselves in hot water like this teenager did, and the posting the video the day after, and that would definitely a clear minded decision, because he probably wasn`t still high then. So, I don`t know what your direct interaction have been with the teen. Does he seem remorseful at all, or was this completely planned and he really thought that this was actually something fun and interesting to do?
GRIFFITH: Yeah. He actually didn`t talk to us, but you`re recollect. You know, the first act shows that he`s selfish acting in a reckless manner. And when you post the video, it just slaps it even worse, and just, you know, shows even more heinousness for the society.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, Sergeant Griffith. Now, when a bystander went to help him after this crash, all he kept saying was, is this real, is this real? Tiffanie, is that him disassociating in a car wreck or him being wasted?
HENRY: I think it`s probably him being high -- high as a kite. I hope he was high because that would explain some of the behavior and stupidity of it. I would hate to think that he wasn`t high, and this was all intentional. So, I`m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and say, Dr. Drew, he was high.
PINSKY: I think you`re probably right. May have been -- somebody said, I think it was Judy, that he was maybe in his right mind when he got to the hospital bed. Could have been on a morphine infusion or something, and still be high then, too. Might even been higher, might have been happier to be in the hospital.
Next up, we read your outraged post about the judge who some say shamed a victim -- a rape victim, and that young girl is speaking out and you will hear from her, next.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Dallas district judge is under fire this morning. After handing down what some say is an inappropriately light sentence in a rape case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge is Janine Howard. The defendant is Sir Young. Young pled guilty last week to raping a 14-year-old girl in October 2011 in a practice room at Booker T. Washington High School where they both attended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Faced up to 20 years in jail but was instead sentenced to five years of probation and a 45-day stint in jail. But it wasn`t just the sentence that shocked the community. Judge Janine Howard publicly implied the 14-year-old victim was promiscuous, and not the victim she claimed to be. The victim denies the claims and has said since the verdict she regrets coming forward about the rape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. And we`re live from New York City at the Columbus Circle CNN Center, and you`ve been voicing your outrage on this story on Facebook and Twitter and now the judge has actually recused herself from the case. The rape survivor is also speaking out tonight. I want you to take a look.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 14 years old and I was a virgin. I have never been pregnant. To me, this sends a message that basically you can come forward, and as you`re supposed to and tell the truth and say what happened to you and nothing`s gonna happen. I was OK. I was OK until this morning. I would not.
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PINSKY: Back with our panel. Judy, Erica, Vanessa. Vanessa, your reaction to this?
BARNETT: You know, I`m just -- it just -- it`s so upsetting because whether this girl was the Virgin Mary or a porn star, a victim is a victim. No means no. And how dare this judge make this victim feel as though you have to be a certain type of victim to receive justice. This girl said no. Even the accuser, even the defendant said that she said no. He admitted she said no. So, there shouldn`t -- no other thing had to be discussed or thought about when handing down this judgment. Guilty -- you need to be in jail.
PINSKY: Yeah, let`s remind ourselves, Vanessa, this was a 14-year-old child.
BARNETT: Fourteen.
PINSKY: Well, yeah, 14-year-old. Now, the judge told the Dallas Morning News, that she based her sentence in part on evidence that the girl had sent a text to the defendant asking him to spend time with her and then she agreed apparently in this text to have sex with him, but just not at school. Erica, even if she had sent a text saying, let`s do this right now, got into it, she`s 14, remind ourselves and then said, you know, I`ve thought better, says stop, it becomes rape. And by the way, she`s not at an age to render consent. How could she even talk about consent, the consent of a 14-year-old? She`s not at age consent.
AMERICA: Listen, a girl could be a prostitute or she could be, you know, just have a million partners. It doesn`t matter. If she says no and the person persist, that sexual assault, or that`s rape, and this judge, none of her arguments made any sense. She said that she -- because the woman texted the boy, do you know that many sexual assaults are between two people who know each other and have a relationship? That`s what happens and then it gets to a point where the person says no. Then she says that she had a baby which both the mother and the -- you know, and the victim deny, even if she did, so what. Can a mother not be raped? That makes no sense. She could have had three babies. The entire thing makes no sense. And she recused herself.
PINSKY: Which is nice. I`m glad she did. I think she.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I think she had a bias. I think she had a personal bias.
PINSKY: Let me get this point down. Well, it seems like it, but people have got to understand there is an age under which people cannot, no matter how much they say they want to do something or their consent to do something, I believe developmentally -- I believe this is true, and certainly in the eyes of the law this is true, she can`t render consent.
SCHACHER: Right, and she was underage.
PINSKY: She was in that category, and Texas has a weird law, where if they`re within three years of the perpetrator, it`s not inappropriate sexual contact.
SCHACHER: OK, but she still said no, and even.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And she wasn`t at an age to render consent. Judy, help me out here. Do you`ve got my back on this, Judy?
HO: Absolutely I do. And this just shows how pervasive in this culture, this belief is about how these victims always have something to do with their own rape. OK? And this judge is really just a picture of that. She`s not really that different from most of American. This is why victims don`t come forward.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
HO: As we heard from the victim`s own testimony, she said she was fine until today, and then when she heard this sentencing, she`s instantly re- traumatized again. Why do people don`t -- why do victims not report? This is why.
SCHACHER: And guess what, this guy is getting five -- five years probation. Wow.
HO: What a joke.
SCHACHER: I mean, that`s insane.
PINSKY: Well, she didn`t.
SCHACHER: It`s a joke.
PINSKY: She, in fact, didn`t impose the usual sex offender conditions of probation.
SCHACHER: Right, right, right.
PINSKY: Like attending sex offender treatment. She order though 250 hours of community service at a rape crisis center and then, Erica, they declined to accept him there.
AMERICA: Because he was -- it was a ridiculous thing for her to even say that. She said, she had, like, you know, go back and say, oh, I just wanted him to clean the floor or something like that. Why would people want to have someone who raped at a rape center? It just makes no sense. I think the woman identified with that boy for some reason just like I, when I told you about the lapel video. And remember the woman who kicked her children to death and he`s just like, you guys are great people. You see something - - they see something in them and they can`t have an unbiased view. They just can`t, and that`s why she recused herself. She`s saying that.
PINSKY: Here`s what I wanna do. I`m gonna bring what we`ve been talking about -- I`m going to show you after the break, how the judge talks about what she says as different types of rape cases.
SCHACHER: Oh, gosh.
PINSKY: It`s what`s got you guys outraged on social media. Take a look. Well, I`ll have you look at it after we get back from this break.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was shocked that a judge, someone that I trusted with this case, would go behind my back and make these allegations that she knows nothing about.
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PINSKY: Back tonight from New York with Sam, Judy, Erica, and Vanessa. We`re also joined by one of the Tiffanie`s. That young woman was raped by a classmate, no laughing matter, when she was 14 years old. Despite her attacker`s guilty plea, a judge sentenced him to just 45 days behind bars. The judge also ordered the next five years he should spend the anniversary of the rape -- this is a bizarre twist to her punishment -- on the anniversary of the rape for five years this young man should spend a day in jail. Tiffanie, does this seem odd to you?
HENRY: It seems very odd. She actually needs to do the time in the rape crisis center, because she obviously needs sensitivity -- to what sensitivity training as to what happens when someone is violated like this and to have that type of sympathy -- she just went -- I can`t even tell you how disgusted I am by what she has said and she is a woman. I expect more out of women than this, and she should have been supporting this young girl rather than re-victimizing and re-traumatizing her over and over again.
SCHACHER: Tiffanie, I`m so glad you said that because our Twitter is blowing up. And I wanna read this tweet in response to what you just said. It`s coming in from Robyn Lynn and she tweets, as a rape survivor I am saddened and angered by this. This judge needs to be immediately removed from the bench. Oh, she`s up for re-election, by the way.
PINSKY: Shaming the victim is a very, very serious problem. Judy, is that what you want to talk about?
HO: Yeah, I`m so glad you brought up the weird sentencing like on the anniversary. He`s gonna spend some time in jail. What is this, a time-out? This is a play a criminal day and go to jail for 24 hours, and you come back out? It`s making light of how serious this conviction is. So, I`m really, really confused that the judge that that would be a good idea, but at the same time the judge has already expressed sympathy for this person. And so, I`m not surprised. She`s somehow personally connected with him.
PINSKY: Yeah, isn`t that weird? That`s what Erica was talking about. But there was a tweet up next to you, Judy, said there are different types of judges, not different types of rapes. And now, and I wanna bite(ph) -- I do wanna tell you -- I want to share with you what the judge told the Dallas Morning News. She said, quote, there are rape cases that deserve life, there are rape cases that deserve 20 years. And every now and then you have one that deserves probation. This is one of those and I stand by that. Vanessa, what say you?
BARNETT: You know, in the beginning of her statement, I almost not necessarily agree with her, but I feel like I understand what she`s trying to say. Not every murder case is the same and not every rape case is the same.
PINSKY: That`s right.
BARNETT: I get that.
PINSKY: That`s right.
BARNETT: But this guy needs to be in jail for years. You don`t get probation for literally taking the life from someone. He has ruined this girl`s life. This judge has come in and ruined her life again and he gets a slap on the wrist. She needs to be in jail. What can be done there?
PINSKY: I think -- Erica, I think she just misunderstand the issues in a case like this. She doesn`t understand.
AMERICA: She doesn`t understand this was an actual.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: She behaved as though it was like two 22-year-olds or something. I don`t know. She just didn`t seem to understand what was at issue here.
AMERICA: But not only -- I agree, but not only that, the case was open and closed in the sense he admitted that he raped her. He admitted that she said no and she said stop. Isn`t that enough right there? And she`s 14, and he was 18.
PINSKY: But Erica, finish your thought. I`m sorry. Go ahead.
AMERICA: Yes. I said there`s this bizarre connection that also allowed her to take away the treatment, the sex offender treatment to protect society. So, this guy instead of getting whatever kind of treatment he could get to potentially not do a similar type of thing, he`s not getting that. So, again, there was some weird connection between, you know, between the rapist -- I don`t know if there`s a better way to call it -- and the judge. And the fact she was so firm in her opinion, yet recused herself. So, what does that mean? Does that mean that she really did feel that way or that she felt, hmm, I can`t really be, you know, unbiased about this?
HO: Right, and bottom line, she doesn`t believe he needs treatment.
PINSKY: Say that again. What do you mean? The judge doesn`t mean it?
HO: Yeah. I don`t think the judge believes this boy needs treatment, that`s why.
PINSKY: Oh, he needs treatment. Yeah. I was going to ask, Tiffanie, again really quickly to talk about the issue of shaming victims. That`s such a serious problem in our society. We make the victims responsible for being the victim particularly of things like rape.
HENRY: Right. And this is the second case in probably about a year that we`ve heard of on this kind of level where a judge that`s kind of has been very lenient on someone who`s raped or molested or mishandled an underage teenager, and it just does reinforce for them my voice doesn`t matter, my sexuality doesn`t matter, my virginity, whatever, doesn`t matter. And what`s most important are these men who can say and do anything that they want to do to me, and what ends up happening is they continue to be re-victimized because they don`t feel vindicated the first time.
PINSKY: My body doesn`t matter. And I`ve got to take it back for just a second to finish the show to the Schenecker Case. If you notice she had been physically abused, she was disciplined, ladies and gentlemen. People who want to argue about whether spanking and discipline helps kids, yes, she also justified the fact that she was physically abused saying that it made her very respectful of adults, and look at what it did to this woman. Look at all it did. All the problems with relationship, all of the mental health issues can be around some of those experiences in childhood. Forensic Files is next. Tonight, a fishing boat sinks in a storm, two men aboard, one survivor, the other drowns. So, what clue becomes a murder investigation? Forensic Files, is up next and it starts right now.
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