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Don Lemon Tonight

The Battle over Benghazi; Interview with Frank Rich; Donald Sterling, The Tale of the Tapes; Deep in the Heart of Texas

Aired May 08, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL WEIR, CNN HOST: I'll Bill Weir, welcome to CNN TONIGHT. Benghazi, used to just be the name of a city in Libya but now in American it is a one-word war shock test. It means something very different depending on your politics. On the right, it is a rallying cry for truth and justice, one that might just change the course of an election. On the left, it is a name brand witch hunt, an opposition fundraising tool that also might change the course of an election.

The one undeniable fact is that four people died and they should not have. Tonight, who's playing politics with an American tragedy?

Meanwhile, whether the name is Benghazi or Lewinsky, they would now fascinate nearly as much without attaching the name Hillary. As she hits the keynote speaking circuit in road test lines that we may be hearing on campaign trails of the future.

I will discuss her stature and strategies with one of the nation's premier political observer, Frank Rich. We'll get his thoughts on Bill and Barack, scandals both racial and sexual, and his hand in HBO's hilarious hit "Veep".

And we've got another stranger-than-fiction story unfolding in Los Angeles again tonight, all about Donald Sterling, a man who by now should assume that someone is recording every noise he makes. The Clippers owner-slash-national pariah is on tape again. This time proclaiming he is not a racist in a recording that comes from RadarOnline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD STERLING, L.A. CLIPPERS OWNER: I mean, how could you think I'm a racist, knowing me all these years? How could you be in this business and be a racist? Do you think I tell the coach to get white players or to get the best player he can get?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I think they're probably just trying to force you to sell it. That is the thing.

STERLING: They don't -- you can't force someone to sell property in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: The NBA may test that idea. And was he caught on that tape or is it attempted piece of restoration hardware? Tonight, I'll talk to a man who says the only color that matters to Donald Sterling is legal tender green.

But let us begin with the political battle over Benghazi tonight, voting pretty much right along party lines. The Republican-led House tonight approved the creation of a committee to investigate the 2012 attack. It killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans.

CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, joins me now from D.C.

Good to see you, Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.

WEIR: I checked my math on this, I think there've been at least a dozen hearings already.

BORGER: Yes.

WEIR: Like seven other reports. Why this, why now?

BORGER: Well, look, this is clearly about politics as you pointed out. Earlier, of course there are Republicans who believe that the White House has been effectively covering up the real story of what occurred in Benghazi, that they weren't truthful with the American public and that they really had not gotten to the bottom of it.

But at the very base here we see a select committee that is being formed with the majority of Republicans on it. And you know they're playing a short-term game here and a long-term game here, Bill. The short-term game is, you know, elections, midterm elections in November. They're not about persuading voters. They're about getting your partisans, getting out your base.

What gets out base Republican voters? President Obama and Obamacare, perhaps Hillary Clinton and Benghazi. So that is what this is about. And if they nick Hillary Clinton along the way, you know she is the favorite candidate to be the Democratic nominee at this point. So be it. They figure that can only be good for them.

WEIR: Now Democrats are deciding whether to go along with this. I understand from Dana Bash --

BORGER: Yes.

WEIR -- and other reporters there on the hill it looks like they might. I don't know what you're hearing.

BORGER: Yes --

WEIR: But you wrote a piece today that they should.

BORGER: I do. Look, I can't -- the lesson you learn in politics is that if you're not a part of something you can't make your case. And if the Democrats were to boycott this committee I guarantee you the committee would go on. And the committee would go on and it would call witnesses, perhaps Hillary Clinton, perhaps Susan Rice. Democrats would be blindsided. They wouldn't know where the subpoenas were going, they wouldn't know where the leaks were coming from, they wouldn't know what of the they wouldn't know what documents were being uncovered.

So I do believe even though they believe it's illegitimate, even though they believe it's with hunt. That they have to make their case to the American public or no case will be made on their -- on their side, and they've got a (INAUDIBLE) presidential candidate they want to protect in Hillary Clinton.

WEIR: Gloria Borger, we appreciate your in sight as always.

BORGER: Sure.

WEIR: Have a great night.

Now let's bring in a man who has written about Benghazi and Hillary Clinton and pretty much anything we care about in this country for a long time. Frank Rich, he's writer-at-large for "New York" magazine, also executive producer for HBO's "Veep."

And it's a pleasure to meet you.

FRANK RICH, WRITER-AT-LARGE, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

WEIR: Thanks for being here. You wrote I think last year, Benghazi will be a non-factor in 2016 as it was in 2012, because most voters don't give a damn.

RICH: It's true. Now what Gloria says is right about this year. It will rev up in an off-year election , because what she says, people don't give a damn. Part of the problem is that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars gone on for so long they have turned off Americans on foreign policy in general. Even Ukraine's story, the Russian story doesn't really raise people's blood pressure in this country. It does people like us who follow this stuff.

And Benghazi, it just -- it didn't work last time around. It's certainly not going to work when it is further in the past in 2016 in terms of bringing down Hillary Clinton should she be the presidential nominee. And it is playing with fire, I think, for the Republicans because after all it was the last Republican president who was asleep at the switch when he got a CIA bit of intelligence telling that Osama bin Laden was going to attack and that attack cost America many more than four people.

So I think it's sort of a dog and pony show as Gloria said to rev up the base for this midterm election.

WEIR: Here's Hillary. She brought it up yesterday at this No Ceiling Project with Robin Roberts talking about this latest move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: And despite all of the hearings, all of the information that's been provided, some choose not to be satisfied and choose to continue to move forward. That is their choice. And I do not believe there is any reason for it to continue in this way. But they get to call the shots in the Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Lindsey Graham has said that this is Benghazi is just as damning as Watergate.

RICH: That's preposterous. First of all it's not an attempt to cover up actual crimes in a White House. It is -- obviously there's a lot of incompetence. A lot of things went wrong, we all know that. So the question now is just sort of pin the tail on the donkey, who can, you know, assign the most blame to.

But Watergate, it's ridiculous. And I would bet that if you give Americans a poll many people would not know, sad to say, where Benghazi is. They knew where the White House was during the Watergate and what was going on there.

WEIR: What's interesting today, if you tie in a much more current story, the girls kidnapped in Nigeria, the Boko Haram. Peter King is raising a spectra that we tried to get Hillary Clinton's State Department to designate them as terrorists as part of al Qaeda, and they resisted because maybe it would fight the narrative that al-Qaeda was on the run instead of metastizing into these other groups. Could that be more damning, do you think?

RICH: Not really.

WEIR: For her prospects?

RICH: Because the big thing that we've done to encourage al Qaeda and Islamic radical terrorism is the war in Iraq. We took a country where there was not al Qaeda and we turned it into a center for Islamic terrorism. So what was officially designated by this department or not, correctly or erroneously, it's like a codicil or a footnote to the bigger picture here.

WEIR: Right. And even if it had been, who knows what --

(CROSSTALK)

RICH: It wouldn't make --

WEIR: Any difference to this.

RICH: It wouldn't have -- you know, I can't imagine it would have affected their irrational impulse to commit a crime like this.

WEIR: Right, we did want to talk to you before this news broke today. The primary topic would be Hillary in relation to Monica. And you have been writing about how scandal loves a Clinton. The conversation is always about the Clinton, it will quickly turn to sex. it always does, it always, it already is. I just wonder what your reaction to Monica's piece in "Vanity Fair" was this week. RICH: I have no particular reaction to it. I think like most people, I am sympathetic to her wanting to get her life back. I interviewed her myself years ago but long after the scandal. She -- you know, look, it's a nightmare for her. The whole thing was kind of crazy convulsion for the entire country. But in terms of its political weight, I think it's a mistake for Republicans to bring it on.

Because first of all look what happened during the actual event. The more the scandal was heated up the more it became towards impeachment and impeachment itself, the more popular Bill Clinton got. They kept thinking oh, impeachment now, they'll get rid of him but they did not. And the same thing will happen again. I don't think -- it behooves the Republicans to talk too much about women and sex in any context, the Clintons or otherwise.

WEIR: Well, Rand Paul had that interesting play, maybe it was a rookie mistake, talking about how Bill Clinton had committed work place violence and acted predatory, Monica answered that specifically in her piece saying, sure, my boss took advantage of me, but I will always, you know, insist this is a consensual relationship. Does that spike any of that?

RICH: It probably does. And I think you're right about Rand Paul. I think it was sort of a rookie mistake. I don't think he has anything to gain by bringing it up.

Look, what Bill Clinton did was terrible, and everyone knows that but I don't understands what point you're going to (INAUDIBLE) bringing it up again particularly since Bill Clinton is out of politics. It's actually Hillary Clinton who may be running for president. And so yes, it spikes it. I'd be shocked if Rand Paul, who seems to be a very shrewd politician, would continue down this road anyway.

WEIR: Right. And Reince Priebus tweeting in February, remember all the Clinton scandals, that's not what America needs again. They don't associate -- I don't know if they associate them with scandals anymore. We had -- there was a poll that "Wall Street Journal" did recently. Bill is for many people America's favorite grandpa, you know? He's right behind the Pope and the current president.

RICH: Absolutely, and what the Republicans feel, they realized partially because their own demographic is so what it is. It's an older -- they don't realize that there are going to be people voting in the next presidential election who weren't born when the Lewinsky scandal happened. So it's very, very faded. And that's not saying there was nothing or that it should be white-washed. It's just that it doesn't have any heat anymore. And instead it pushes the right into talking about sex lives. And I don't think that ever turns out well for them.

WEIR: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

And well, what is it? Mitt Romney lost women by 10 or 11 points, something like that? RICH: Exactly.

WEIR: In the last one.

RICH: You know, and it will all revolve around Hillary Clinton if she runs. So instead of a war on women, we'll have a war on woman and it'll backfire just as what happened in 2012.

WEIR: It's great to have you here. Please stick around.

RICH: Sure.

WEIR: When we come back, we're going to talk more about the current president and Donald Sterling, perhaps? We'll figure out all kinds of other hot topics to get into when we come back, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: We are back now with Frank Rich talking about politics in America, among other topics. Writer-at-large for "New York" magazine. Executive -- one of the producers of "Veep." Are you an executive producer of "Veep"?

RICH: I'm an executive producer of "Veep".

WEIR: Congratulations.

RICH: Thank you.

WEIR: I want to save that. I want to get into that in a second. But let's talk more about Hillary Clinton, you assume she's running?

RICH: I assume it, but of course I don't know it.

WEIR: Who do you assume would be her opponent, if you had to lay odds? Just to go through them. Jeb Bush?

RICH: I'm -- you know, I'm loathe to predict anything. I just have -- feel that he doesn't really want to run. Maybe I'm wrong. He's been out of politics a long time. He has positions that are more moderate than the party's base, particularly on immigration. And I guess it could happen but he's publicly said things like I only want to run if I can say what I really believe and do it in a decent way. Well, forget that in this climate.

WEIR: Right.

RICH: And he would be -- you know, he's not loved by the electorate that votes in Republican primaries. But the establishment of the party which has been buffeted by the Tea Party and the radicals in the party want a candidate. And he is sort of the last man standing after Chris Christie's troubles. I mean, possibly I guess Marco Rubio, another Floridian. But he seems to be kind of untested. And I just find it hard to imagine that he would get the nomination.

WEIR: I mean, the idea that he said jumping the border illegally is an act of love, that's a pretty radical statement.

RICH: Yes. Even if Rick Perry couldn't get away last time with a moderate statement about immigrants or illegal immigrants. I just think it's going to be a big problem for him. And -- but yet the establishment really wants him. The traditional Republican Party obviously views him as an adult. As someone who isn't going to frighten the horses. And could get elected. Whether that's true or not, that he could get elected, I don't know.

WEIR: On the -- well, the plus side for immigrants is when they take the nationalization test they really only have to remember the names Clinton and Bush.

(LAUGHTER)

RICH: I know. I know. But I have to say -- I think -- I hope I speak for most people regardless of their political party or politics. Do we really want another Bush/Clinton race? I mean, I just -- it makes you want to just get in the bed and pull up the covers. But there doesn't seem to be an alternative in the Democratic Party. It'd be fascinating if she decided not to run.

WEIR: Yes. Wow.

RICH: But I mean -- and the Republican Party, I mean, there could be -- look, the most interesting Republican candidate and I mean this sincerely is Rand Paul. I think he's -- I don't agree with much of what he stands for, I'm not -- I'm not sure I would want him as president. But he is kind of independent-minded and hard to categorize, and some of the stuff he says is ridiculous. But he is not stupid and he seems not entirely taken over yet by consultants. And --

WEIR: Right.

RICH: And, you know, this may change within a year. But there is something slightly flakey about him I find interesting.

WEIR: I spent some time with him when I was at "NIGHTLINE," and he is a man of his convictions. Gets it from his old man, you know?

RICH: Yes, he does.

WEIR: Had lunch with Ron every day, and when he talks about we should reform prison sentencing in this country, giving former felons the right to vote.

RICH: Right, he says some things that are not the usual talking points. And he says -- and look, his position about privacy, you know, invasion of intelligence into people's lives in America. Strikes a bipartisan chord. He is completely at odds with much of his own party on that and in some places he is to the right of the party. But at least he doesn't bore you to death.

WEIR: What about Chris Christie?

RICH: I think he's done.

WEIR: You think he's done?

RICH: I think that -- I always felt he would have a lot of the problems that Jeb Bush would have with his party and more so because on guns, too, on a bunch of issues he is liberal by the standards of that party. But now he's got I think a Pandora's box. Whatever went along there that's just going to keep on coming up. No one believes the answers. And it's too difficult, I think.

WEIR: And you have -- you have been a foil of the Tea Party for a long time. How would you characterize their stature these days?

RICH: Well, I think what is technically called the Tea Party -- calls itself a Tea Party is of course waning, the actually Tea Party organizations. But what I would call the radical right of the Republican Party is alive and well. Everyone talks about how in North Carolina this week, in the Republican senatorial primary, an establishment candidate backed by the Chamber of Commerce and Karl Rove won, he did win. He was still a very conservative candidate. And he actually split the vote with the other candidates that divided the even further right vote. It's a right-wing party and a Tea Party is a reflective of that.

WEIR: And just as a nation, when you talk about -- you know, we set our boundaries culturally by scandal a lot of times. A racist rancher pops out.

RICH: Yes.

WEIR: We decide that's bad. And, you know, Donald Sterling is going through that, as well. After Obama's win, a lot of people thought we are now in a post-racial society. With Hillary now insurgent, where are we in the terms of misogyny do you think?

RICH: I -- you know, I think everything is a work in progress in America in lots of issues and certainly on these two issues. I mean, certainly race, we've seen besides even the ridiculousness of someone like Sterling we've seen race being a constant issue throughout the Obama presidency, including Supreme Court rulings, laws about voter's IDs and stuff like that.

In the case of women, the fact is that women do not have at the highest level of American society starting with Fortune -- top Fortune companies, the power that men do in the hottest area of economic growth. Silicon Valley. Women don't have the clout that men do. So there is a lot to be done. And in the political arena there have been a lot of improvement. And Hillary Clinton exemplifies that. But there are some people in this country who still have trouble with women in power sadly.

WEIR: Well, when it comes to pretend women in power, Selina --

(LAUGHTER)

RICH: She is the most incompetent woman in power. WEIR: She -- I don't know if she's taking a blow for women's right with that show.

When we come back with Frank Rich, we're going to talk about "Veep" and other topics of the day.

And also later in the show the very latest on the Donald Sterling new recording, whether that was intentional or another got you. Stay with us, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA LOUIS-DREYFUS, "VEEP": This is where I love to speak my mind on this campaign, can you imagine if I did that? Mississippi is chockfull of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't trust the Chinese. Like can I tell you something? I'm not going to be able to pass a single piece of legislation that's really going to make any (EXPLETIVE DELETED) difference in your life. So how's that for my platform?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, my vote.

LOUIS-DREYFUS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: The one and only, Julia Louis-Dreyfus is Selina Meyer in HBO's "Veep," executive producer, Frank Rich, back with me now.

We hope they talk like that in private, or maybe we shouldn't.

RICH: Well, I think it's the way it is.

WEIR: It's the way it is. Yes.

RICH: You know, this past weekend we had a little video that we got Biden and Michelle Obama.

WEIR: Yes.

RICH: To cooperate with (INAUDIBLE) shown at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. And the cast, almost all of which lives in Los Angeles, came in for the dinner and it was hilarious to watch actual people on the hill come up to them.

WEIR: We have -- you say it, we play it.

RICH: OK.

WEIR: Here we go. Here's what you're talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS-DREYFUS: So where are we headed next?

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT: Going to the real seat of power.

LOUIS-DREYFUS: The real seat of power? Where is that?

BIDEN: We can write any headline we want?

BIDEN: Knock yourself out. Go to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Uncle Joe, he's got an HBO show waiting for him after this.

RICH: Yes. He's a natural.

WEIR: So tell me about your involvement. Now you were at HBO, and was this your idea or was it --

(CROSSTALK)

RICH: The show was the idea of someone HBO went after, named Armando (INAUDIBLE), who is a brilliant long-time British television person, comedy writer and director. And back in the day once a performer. He did a very successful show in British television, on BBC called "The Thick of It." They did a movie called "The Loop" that was nominated for Oscar for him for screenplay. And he came up with the idea of someone -- a woman vice president who was in the second most powerful job in the world and in fact has absolutely no power.

And as they conceded in the show, she has no power and can't get anything done and the staff around her has even less power but they're fighting for every square inch of influence they can have.

WEIR: Exactly, it is that. It's that tension between her raging ambition and her complete lack of relevance. And now she's running for president.

RICH: She is running for president.

WEIR: Do you get to spend time on the set? It seems like --

RICH: I'm there for weeks at a time. We shoot --

WEIR: (INAUDIBLE)

RICH: Yes. It's fun, I mean, because it's a really great group of people, great cast and writers and crew and everything else. We shoot in Baltimore, as does oddly enough "House of Cards." In fact, we borrowed their Oval Office in our second season for a scene. And so we shoot excerpts in Washington but we shoot on a stage outside of Baltimore.

WEIR: So between Vice President Biden's camera, between two ferns with the presidents, what do you make of the pop culturization of our political leaders?

RICH: Well, I think -- I think it's just a done deal and it has been.

WEIR: It is.

RICH: You know, I think it really took off in '92 when Bill Clinton went on the "Arsenio Hall Show" and started playing the sax. And when Dan Quayle, you may recall, got into a debate with "Murphy Brown," a sitcom character during the campaign.

WEIR: Yes.

RICH: And now, you know, everyone has to -- even people who are incredibly uncomfortable in entertainment television, politicians have to go on every late-night show. They've got to talk to, you know, afternoon hosts. They've got to go on "The View" whether they like it or not. So that's how you reach people.

WEIR: Right. Chris Christie wouldn't be Chris Christie if he didn't wear that fleece on "Saturday Night Live." You know?

RICH: Yes. Yes, exactly.

WEIR: Yes. But it is I think the funniest comedy on TV.

RICH: Well, thank you.

WEIR: And keep it up.

RICH: Thanks a lot.

WEIR: Please come back.

RICH: I'd love to. Thanks so much for having me.

WEIR: Frank Rich, "New York" magazine.

Coming up, if you thought Donald Sterling would go quietly into that good night, well, another recording of the Clippers owner says otherwise. We'll see what the NBA has to say about that.

Also later, the political ad that proves hell might have just frozen over in Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: For years, Donald Sterling sat courtside at Clipper's games and very few people ever found good reason to put a microphone in his face and record his innermost thoughts and feelings. Amazing how things change after one racist rant. The first team owner ever to be banned for life has been curiously mum since his world came crashing down but now RadarOnline has released a new audio tape. It captures him talking to an unidentified man.

CNN's Jason Carroll has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD STERLING, L.A. CLIPPERS OWNER: You think I'm a racist? You think I have anything in the world but love for everybody? JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it a tale of two audiotapes. Embattled Clipper's owner, Donald Sterling, reportedly defending himself while speaking to an unidentified man on a new recording released by RadarOnline. CNN has not confirmed the tape's authenticity.

STERLING: I got out of east L.A. I was the president of the high school there. I mean -- and I'm a Jew. And 50 percent of the people there were black and 40 percent were Hispanic. You ever been to Boil Heights?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes, I've been to Boil Heights.

STERLING: So, I mean, people must have a good feeling for me.

CARROLL: A much different tone from what was heard from the recording with V. Stiviano, where Sterling criticized her for posing in pictures with African-Americans such as Magic Johnson.

STERLING: You can do anything. But don't put him on Instagram for the world to have to see so they have to call me. And don't bring him to my games. OK?

CARROLL: That was then, what is he allegedly saying now?

STERLING: It breaks my heart that Magic Johnson, you know, a guy that I respect so much, wouldn't stand up and say well, let's get the facts. Let's get him and talk to him. Nobody tried.

CARROLL: Sterling also questioned how any NBA owner could be a racist.

STERLING: I mean, how could you think I'm a racist? Knowing me all these years. How can you be in this business and be a racist? Do you think I tell the coach to get white players? Or to get the best player he can get?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The best player he can get.

CARROLL: Maybe not white players, former Clippers general manager Elgin Baylor claimed in a 2009 discriminations suit Sterling wanted, quote, "poor black kids." According to the complaints, Sterling tried to release false information about the African-American players in an effort to reduce their value. Sterling denied the allegations and Baylor later dropped his racial discrimination suit.

The new recording suggests Sterling may fight to keep the Clippers after the NBA's decision to ban him for life.

STERLING: You can't force somebody to sell property in America. Well, I'm a lawyer.

CARROLL: If he can't keep the team, Sterling's wife, Shelly, says legally she can. She has retained an attorney and is claiming the Clippers are part of a trust and community property. Legal analysts say she may have a case. JOHN OLIVIERI, DIVORCE ATTORNEY, WHITE AND CASE: When we're dealing with community property it means that both spouses own all the property. Not a half and half situation. They both own all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR: And Jason is here now. We also heard from the wife's lawyer today right?

CARROLL: Oh, yes, much from him. First of all, I mean, he wanted to point out that Shelly Sterling in no way supports any of the racist comments that her husband made. That was first. And second he says that Shelly Sterling is the one who should be the owner of the Clippers today and in the future. Listen to a little bit more of what he had to say, then we'll talk coming out of there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERCE O'DONNELL, SHELLY STERLING'S ATTORNEY: A passive owner, not involved in management. Not involved in deciding what the trades are but just retaining for now a 50 percent interest that she spent three decades nurturing. She was there in the dark days and she's now is in the brighter days loving this team and hoping they can win the next round in the playoffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So again, the attorney there is basically saying that Shelly Sterling is the owner of the Clippers. That the Clippers is part of a trust. That it is community property. And in short I think what we're going to be looking at here, Bill, is that the NBA is going to have a really nasty legal fight on their hands.

WEIR: Right. Now you listened to the whole thing, right?

CARROLL: Yes.

WEIR: Is there any dialogue with the man recording this or --

CARROLL: Well, there is. And it's -- seems clear that the two of them have been friends for quite some time because there is one part of the tape where you hear him refer to him, you've known me for a long time, he says. So it's clear that this is a person that he has known for a long period of time. Something that you said that is interesting to me. What is unclear at this point was this tape intentionally released? Was it -- and we just don't know. We just don't know.

WEIR: Well, let's get into that with our panel. Jason Carroll, thank you very much for your reporting.

And joining me now to talk about the unending tale of the tapes is Carl Douglas, he's the attorney who represented former general manager Elgin Baylor when he unsuccessfully sued for wrongful termination. Also legendary sports agent Leigh Steinberg, author of "The Agent." And former NBA champion A.C. Green. Good to see you again, Reverend. And it's good to have all of you here tonight.

So let me ask about that idea. Let me ask you, Leigh, if you were a -- I don't know, working with damage control, Olivia Pope type person, and you wanted to get it, you know, out in front of this, do some damage control. You could call a press conference for Donald Sterling or you could leak a tape where he is really not a racist. I mean, what do you make of this tape?

That the cow or horse has already left the barn.

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR: It doesn't matter.

LEIGH STEINBERG, SPORTS AGENT, STEINBERG SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT: Had he done something initially when all this broke on that Saturday he might have had a chance of combating public opinion. But the tsunami wave that has made him the most villainies figure in sports I can recall since like Michael Vick, Lance Armstrong, is too strong. And the dye has already been cast.

They're on the way to having a hearing and then voting to take the team away. And those attorneys who argue that she -- the wife somehow can own the team as part of a trust, this is not a private business. It was granted to Donald Sterling. He was the one who has accepted. He was the one who was thrown out. She may have rights if she filed for divorce to her half of the community property. It has nothing to do with ownership.

The minute that they vote by 75 percent in a week or so to take the team from them, the ownership immediately will transfer to the NBA itself. And all he is entitled to is what they sell the team for.

WEIR: A.C., what was your impression of Sterling in your years in the league? Did you have a sense of what this guy was really about?

A.C. GREEN, FORMER NBA CHAMPION: I think for the most part it just was one -- it was a business investment. Being the Clippers itself. You know, it was one thing over the decades that he has had the team from San Diego and then bringing it obviously up here to Los Angeles. That it was just more of a business deal, more of a real estate deal. But not really paying attention, not investing into the business itself.

And then from a personal standpoint you really didn't get a take because as you said earlier there was not a lot of microphones in his face to really state his opinions. You just saw him at the games. He enjoyed being there, he enjoyed being the owner of the Clippers, and unfortunately as we know that has been taken away from him at this moment.

WEIR: Well, Carl, you know of a different side. You brought the Elgin Baylor suit. When you hear him say, I'm not a racist in this new tape, boy, what goes through your mind? CARL DOUGLAS, ATTORNEY WHO REPRESENTED ELGIN BAYLOR: Well, Bill, that was the same line that he spewed repeatedly when I accused him of being a racist and when I confronted him with various racial allegations that had been made against him over the course of the last 30 years. He was very adamant then as it concerned Elgin Baylor.

How could I possibly be a racist when I hired Elgin Baylor and when I continued to employ him for 23 years? So I am not the least bit surprised that he takes this tack, because it is the same one when I sued him three years ago.

WEIR: All right, stay with me, fellows, if you would. When we come back we're going to talk a little bit more about the wife, Shelly Sterling. She says she wants to hang onto her half of the Los Angeles Clippers. We'll hear more of what her attorney has to say next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: Strange they're not living together for over a year, OK. And while they share business, you know, business properties he is out of the team. Has nothing to do with it. And she is the owner in charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: That is the attorney for Shelly Sterling, wife, estranged wife of Donald, owner of the Clippers, trying to stake a claim for his client.

Back with me now, Carl Douglas, Leigh Steinberg, A.C. Green.

Carl, what do you think of -- we heard Leigh's legal take on that. What do you think of that she owns half of it, she's not a racist?

DOUGLAS: I'll tell you, Bill, I think this is a plan by Donald to enhance the value of his commodity. He is a trial lawyer. I happen to be in trial myself right now. And I know as a trial lawyer the best way to enhance the value of a commodity for a settlement is to put forward a fierce prosecution, to say I'm not going to sell, and what that will do, I suggest, will get all of the suitors to enhance their offers so that Donald can leave a disgraced but very wealthy man.

WEIR: Interesting. If by some legal quirk, A.C., she was to take over the team and you were playing for the Clippers would you play for her? Or do you think the guys who are there now would?

GREEN: I still think the guys would have a hard time doing it. It is more palatable being Mrs. Sterling as opposed to Mr. Sterling himself, but I still think it'd still be a hard time because even though she was not the operator, the owner, of that team, she's been there with him and attached to him. And so we know it probably wasn't all separation of the estranged -- from wife, you know, she might feel some of the same ways, but more importantly she was right next to him and I think she's guilty by association by a lot of guys' standards.

WEIR: Let's take another listen to another clip from this RadarOnline thing in talking about potential buyers for the Clippers. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm just saying, I think they got Sean Combs, Diddy, he's the one that's really seeking to buy, him and Oprah.

STERLING: Who?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diddy, Sean Combs. And Oprah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Shocking that Mr. Sterling's rap knowledge is not up there. Paul Anka, I'm sure he'd be into. But Leigh Steinberg, what are you hearing? Who is the odds-on favorite to buy the Clippers?

STEINBERG: Well, first, you've got to laugh at the fact, the biggest event in sports is the NFL draft, and it's happening tonight and we're talking Donald Sterling.

WEIR: Yes, I appreciate you being here.

(CROSSTALK)

STEINBERG: Right. Fundamentally, this is a golden opportunity for the Clippers to finally take back some of the turf in Southern California. This is going to be an extraordinary franchise. I think what will happen is the NBA will pick one deep pockets owner and then they will layer the rest of the group with figures from African- American, Latino, maybe Asian community, sort of a consensus group, some movie stars, some entertainment.

But just think about this, the Lakers will be down for the next two or three years. Clippers have two great stars. This franchise, which he bought for $12 million, and Shelly's only argument is diminished value, well, it's not diminished. It's skyrocketing.

WEIR: Yes.

STEINBERG: This franchise will probably be worth somewhere between $800 million and $1 million and $1 billion and they can do a new TV contract. Better than the one they have. They can make tons of money and that's the team that is a growth stock. So it ends up working out well for Clippers' fans because they end up with enhanced ownership and a new outlook.

WEIR: We got about a minute left. I'll ask all of you. You know, Richard Sherman of the Seahawks said recently that the NFL wouldn't have done this. They would not oust an owner for these. What do you guys think? A.C., do you think?

GREEN: Yes, they would.

WEIR: You think they would, Leigh?

STEINBERG: I spent 40 years representing 60 draft picks. They would knock this owner out up front immediately.

WEIR: Yes? A.C. you agree with that?

GREEN: Yes, actually I agree with that, too. I think it wouldn't even be a long process at all.

WEIR: I think he's making the case that with the team named the Redskins, you know, still a sensitive topic for those, that there's somehow less --

STEINBERG: A different issue.

WEIR: -- sensitive. Yes.

GREEN: It's sensitive. Because I'm a Native American guy myself and I think Dan Snyder's position is one that I consider part offensive myself.

WEIR: Yes.

DOUGLAS: But, Bill, there hasn't been the uproar about the Redskin name to the same level that there has been, this international uproar about Donald Sterling's comments.

WEIR: That's true.

DOUGLAS: I think had there been this kind of pressure, even Roger Goodell would be forced to act.

WEIR: Carl Douglas, Leigh Steinberg, A.C. Green, so great hearing from all of you guys. Thank you for being with me on draft night.

And when we come back, politicians in a verbal night fight deep in the heart of Texas. This will make you laugh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: I've never seen anything funnier than Texas politics. Those are the words of the late great Lone Star state columnist Molly Ivan and it's a shame. She's not around anymore to aim her particular wit at the current lieutenant governor's race now spicier than Habanero lip balm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN PATRICK, TEXAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: One positive ad in this runoff? I haven't seen it.

LT. GOV. DAVID DEWHURST (R), TEXAS: We have -- we have --

PATRICK: Where is it?

DEWHURST: We have run ads in the primary and we have run starting today --

PATRICK: I'm talking about this runoff. Did you or did you not?

DEWHURST: That's not the point.

PATRICK: It is the point.

DEWHURST: The point -- the point is that your pattern of deceitfulness.

PATRICK: You're not running on issues.

DEWHURST: Your pattern of deceitfulness, your character is continuing through debate.

PATRICK: Governor, will you please --

DEWHURST: You're running an ad which is completely a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Wow. Now that is incumbent David Dewhurst, over on the left there, against the challenger named Dan Patrick. And these guys used to be buddies. Patrick endorsed Dewhurst when he ran for Senate a couple of years ago but then Dewhurst lost to Tea Party favorite Ted Cruz and then he quickly lost the support of a lot of Texas conservatives, and then he lost the primary to his old friend Patrick.

So what's a guy to do? Unleash the attack ads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know Dan Patrick has been caught pocketing employees federal withholding taxes, caught not paying his taxes 28 times. Caught hiding assets from his creditors and stiffing them at $800,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Whoa. Whoa. Did you see the -- that is a really damning photo they dug up. This Dan Patrick looks like a party monster with the shirt and -- only one hitch. That picture was taken at a fundraiser for disabled children and Patrick was literally selling the shirt off his back for disabled children. Dewhurst apologized but the ad kept running which made for some crackling fodder in their last debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK: They knew the photo was from a charity event.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, he's addressed that. He apologized multiple times including right here, too.

PATRICK: Excuse me. But he ran -- but, Jason, he ran the ad after he apologized.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did that ad continue running, Senator, after -- Governor, after you apologized?

PATRICK: Why didn't you take it down?

DEWHURST: Because I called and I apologized for using the photograph but the facts in the ad --

PATRICK: Why didn't you take the ad down?

DEWHURST: Because I chose to run it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: And as long as he's choosing to run attack ads on his old pal, might as well point out the fact that Dan Patrick is not his real name. No, he was born Danny Goeb and once when he was 800,000 bucks in debt years ago he declared bankruptcy. Now Dewhurst alleges that Goeb changed his name to avoid his creditors. But it turns out he really changed his name years before the bankruptcy because he was getting in the radio and his boss Didn't like the name Danny Goeb.

But why let that get in the way of another good attack ad idea because, you know, any former radio host is bound to have some embarrassing video floating around and because Danny Goeb rhymes with let it go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Singing) Aim to cover my past, to cover my bankruptcy now the voters know my secrets, they know I had unpaid tax liens. A runoff election call me soon and I will try to hide. I want to keep it hidden and heaven knows I'll try. Danny Goeb, Danny Goeb, I can't lie to you anymore. That's my name, Danny Goeb, and I've got lies to answer for because Dannie don't care what you're going to say. Let my lies rage on. Lying never bothered me anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Now despite the many factual flaws in that ad, you just know it's going to spawn a whole slew of "Frozen"-themed attacks in this fall's midterms. Really can't wait to find out what rhymes with "Do you want to build a snowman"?

That's all for us tonight. I'm Bill Weir. CNN's "SPECIAL REPORT" with Don Lemon starts right now.