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Dr. Drew
Fake Pregnancy Tests for Sale; Teenage Serial Rapist; Family Perishing in Terrible House Fire; High School Boy Spanked in Classroom; Family Picture Turned Controversial
Aired May 08, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, positive pregnancy test sold online. Who is buying? Who`s selling? And why?
Plus, a birthday spanking caught on tape. When a teacher puts a student over her knee. Our behavior bureau has a lot to say about this cell phone video gone viral.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m here with my co-host Sam Schacher. We are live in New York City once again.
Coming up, a baby, a 1-year-old, Sam, left alone in a sweltering closet, put there by his own mother. Police say not an isolated incident for this mom of the year.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, I actually have a lot of questions for you in regard to this, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: All right. It`s coming up. We`ll get into that.
But, first, women can buy a lie on Craigslist for less than $20 mind you. Pregnant women are cashing in selling positive pregnancy tests to other women who want to trick their husbands and boyfriends. Take a look.
SCHACHER: Oh my gosh.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REPORTER: Plenty of expecting moms hoping to cash in on their condition by selling positive pregnancy tests to anyone who is willing to pay up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it`s a prank, it would be hysterical, but it can be -- it can be really coldhearted and mean.
REPORTER: Tricking a man into marrying them or at the very least trying to keep a partner in a relationship he no longer wants any part of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that would be a level of blackmail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s playing with people`s emotions. That`s real- life situation. You don`t mess with stuff like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cons are no good and it never results in anything positive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us: Anahita Sedaghatfar, criminal defense attorney, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30- Day Love Detox."
And, Wendy, I`m going to you first, because the rest of us are shaking our head. And I heard you think this is an OK idea.
SCHACHER: What?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t say OK, but I want to say this -- are men complaining about being deceived after they pretend they want to be our boyfriends and husbands just to extract sex from us? After they deceive women by buying fake diamond rings? Why is this so different?
Listen, men are good at extracting sex from women. Women have been good, if they are good, at extracting resources from men.
So, this is the dark side of the mating game. I`m not judging it. I`m just saying it exists. And now, women have a prop to go with their words. That`s all I`m saying.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m judging it, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: I`ll judge it. I am, too, Anahita.
PINSKY: Anahita, I imagine there`s some liability in all of this as well.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, first let me say, how desperate does a woman have to be to engage in this behavior, to trap a guy into being with them? I mean, it`s absolutely disgusting. Now, legally speaking, it`s not a crime for the women that are selling these fake pregnancy tests or I should say positive pregnancy tests.
But it is a crime for those women that are using these pregnancy tests to defraud somebody out of money. Like if they`re going to a boyfriend to try to get money for an abortion, or for some child support payments or even going to the state.
PINSKY: Or a marriage, what about a marriage, what about a relationship? What about keeping them in a relationship they might not want to be in?
SEDAGHATFAR: But that`s what I`m saying. How in the world do they think they`re going to get away with this? At some point, isn`t the guy going to wake up and say, wait a minute, you have no belly, you`re not throwing up in the morning.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: In the meantime, they`ll get pregnant.
WALSH: She`s going to have a miscarriage.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: You can purchase the baby bumps, you can purchase fake DNA tests, you can purchase fake ultrasounds. All of that was on there. >
PINSKY: That`s crazy.
SCHACHER: Messing with people`s lives emotionally and financially.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. Quiet! Quiet.
There`s a really interesting tweet next to you that said oldest trick in the book, new twist -- which is really my point on social media, generally. Social media is just a new way to get the same old stuff out but it`s doing it, it`s blowing down boundaries and making it much more accessible to people.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s right.
PINSKY: Now, before we go on to Segun, he`s going to start spitting fire in a second. I want to show you some of the ads on Craigslist right now. Here they are, put them. In Texas, $20. I don`t want to know why you want or need it but if you do, I will make it happen. I`m pregnant, so it will be legit. Will mail to any list or deliver if nearby, won`t be available much longer -- I guess there`s a delivery date come.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: So, Segun, have at it. Segun, what`s say you?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, if we thought V. Stiviano was bad, these women win gold in the skank Olympics.
And I just have to ask you, Dr. Wendy, who hurt you, dear? Because you always come on and you say that it`s always tit for tat, and like men do this to get by on women, and it`s only fair.
But there are some things that are just dead wrong, and faking a pregnancy, selling urine. Have we come to that? Is it so bad that we are now selling urine on Craigslist to trick a man into thinking you`re pregnant to keep a man in a relationship? Wow.
WALSH: But men trick women all the time. I`ll tell you --
ODUOLOWU: Does it make it right?
WALSH: I`m not saying anything is right or wrong. I`m saying there`s a dark side to the mating game. I am not saying it`s good or bad.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, but you said you`re not going to judge.
WALSH: Ands you know what men do when they trick a woman and extract sex from her? They can leave her with an STD, an 18-year case of pregnanthood, pregnant life --
SEDAGHATFAR: Use condoms.
WALSH: -- and a broken heart.
PINSKY: Hold it, hold it.
ODUOLOWU: Breathe, Wendy, breathe.
PINSKY: I just want to say, in terms of being surprised about urine being purchased online, believe me, my addicts have been doing that a long time. They have a whole market of purchasing clean urines and warm urines and all kinds of stuff to use in their whizzinators and things.
SCHACHER: Whizzinators. You used that term?
PINSKY: Look it up if you want to know what it is. I`m not going to go any further with it tonight.
But I do think that although Wendy is right, it is built on something in our biology in terms of males extracting sex, women extracting resources. I refer you to some of the evolutionary psychologists who have worked that out quite nicely.
But I still think this is a new low. This is a new low, where we are taken this. And that is where social media is somewhat different in that it`s, again, blowing down boundaries and taking us to extremes. Same story, different outcome.
Next, baby locked in a hot closet by his own mom who says -- well, what`s the big deal? I do it every day. We`ll talk about it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maintenance worker Mike Zimmerman entered the apartment to check on air-conditioning repairs. It was 90-plus degrees inside. That`s when he found a 1-year-old baby on the floor of a closet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was in there with no bottle, no juice, no water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zimmerman and his co-worker called police. Police say when the child`s mother returned, she didn`t understand what she`d done wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t crying or anything. He was just laying there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Segun. We are live from New York City.
And joining us, Diana Aizman, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
A baby boy lucky to be alive tonight. He was found as you heard in that piece on the floor inside a closet. A 90-degree temperature apartment. Mom and dad they had chores to do, they`re out, they`re busy. No charges filed against either of the parents.
Sam, what do we know about the parents?
SCHACHER: The mother is 18. The father is 19. They both have full-time jobs. The police want to leave it that they`re unidentified and also the police officer said he talked to her and told her you cannot leave a baby alone and that they provided her with some education. That`s about it.
PINSKY: So, we wonder, Anahita, why people are growing up having had traumatized childhoods. We have people raising babies that don`t even know that babies shouldn`t be left alone in a closet in 95-degree temperature.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. This is pure ignorance, Dr. Drew. It was really dumb what she did and the fact she didn`t realize what she was doing was wrong is definitely a problem. I agree with the police for not charging her. I don`t think this conduct rises to the level of criminal negligence. If anything, she --
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: -- needs training.
PINSKY: Wait a minute. What would she have to do to be criminally negligent? Would she have to be -- endangering the child`s life.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, you have to have something called mens rea. And not to get too legal on you.
PINSKY: But you did.
SEDAGHATFAR: But I did. Of course, leave it to me, right?
PINSKY: (INAUDIBLE) my dear counselor.
The facts speak for themselves, 95-degree temperature.
SEDAGHATFAR: But she didn`t know what she was doing is wrong. She didn`t even try to deny it. And, Dr. Drew, it`s not like she was doing this to go out and smoke crack or go party. She was driving her husband to work. She needs education. She needs training. That child --
PINSKY: That`s for sure.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- needs to be taken away until she gets the education and the child is with her mother and hopefully will learn to be a better parent. This doesn`t belong in the court system.
PINSKY: Diana, you agree?
DIANA AIZMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, this is babies having babies. This is a situation where you`ve got two very young parents who did a really stupid thing and they really just need to be taught. They need to have training. And there needs to be a little bit of slack cut for these people.
And, unfortunately, DFCS is a reactive agency versus a proactive agency and needs to be more training and insight --
PINSKY: It`s a great point.
AIZMAN: -- for these parents.
SCHACHER: You know what`s alarming, the police department says this isn`t uncommon, seeing this over and over and over again. So, here`s the solution, why don`t --
PINSKY: Kids left in the closet?
SCHACHER: Kids are being left unattended. So why don`t we implement into the hospitals that before you --
PINSKY: Parenting classes?
SCHACHER: Exactly. You have to pass the test like you would a license before you take the child home.
PINSKY: Segun, your comments?
ODUOLOWU: Well, if dirty dance has taught us nothing, nobody puts baby in the corner but you can put it in a closet? They were doing this regularly.
SCHACHER: What?
ODUOLOWU: They were locking the baby in the closet regularly. She said she`d been doing this for a month at least. You know what`s so bothersome and what makes me so mad at the two of you ladies? If this was a puppy left in a car with the windows up, you all would lose your minds.
AIZMAN: Probably.
ODUOLOWU: It`s a baby. It`s an actual human life and none of you are willing to raise your level of anger and raise your level of rage to the fact that they put a child right in danger.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, no, the rage exists.
ODUOLOWU: If it was a puppy, you`d lose your mind.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, Segun, the rage exists. I am not condoning what this woman did, what this mother did. This was absolutely wrong. This is ignorant. This is stupid.
All I`m saying it does not rise to the level of criminality.
PINSKY: All right.
ODUOLOWU: Wow.
PINSKY: Here`s the deal, here`s the deal --
ODUOLOWU: When the baby smothers to death under a coat, then we`ll call you back and you can tell us that one is worse.
SEDAGHATFAR: Prove your case.
PINSKY: I`m getting a little bit sort of weirded out that, I seem to agree with Segun every block here now.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew!
PINSKY: It`s a pleasure to be --
SEDAGHATFAR: What`s going on with you in New York?
SCHACHER: Don`t let it get to your head, Segun.
ODUOLOWU: It`s not.
PINSKY: I want to bring in our behavior bureau. Here`s the deal. Although this mom may have not known anything and might not have risen to the level of some legal action, the fact is, a baby left alone in a closet with excess heat.
ODUOLOWU: Locked closet. Locked closet.
PINSKY: Even for a few minutes is a traumatized baby and trauma effects brain development. I`m going to bring in the behavior bureau. Thank you, panel. We`ll talk about that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flipped the light on, opened the door and there was a baby laying on the floor looking at me. He was soaked from probably up past his belly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With urine?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We went ahead and changed him and he was thirsty. We gave him a sippy cup of water and he started chug it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, there was a little bedroom set up in the closet area and the child was in there inside the closet. We explained to her over and over she should have taken the child with her. Apparently, she does this on a daily basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We`re here in Columbus Circle in New York City, and we`re talking about the teen mom who left her baby alone in a closet in a sweltering apartment.
Let`s bring in our behavior bureau. I`ve got Kirsten Haglund, former Miss America, head of the Kirsten Haglund Foundation, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "The Ultimate Betrayal."
And if you would like to join the conversation, tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
All right. Danine, we just heard the officer say he had to tell the mom over and over that it was a bad idea to leave a baby in a closet, a 1-year- old. Please?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, now, just so you know, I was just locked in the elevator on my way here and a very, very hot elevator. So, I`m coming from that perspective. I feel really, really a lot of empathy for this child.
PINSKY: Well, let`s talk about that because you`re a capable, autonomous adult and it was traumatic. Imagine you`re a dependent, unregulated infant.
MANETTE: Exactly. And I do -- I feel that, but I also don`t think that it`s necessary for them to throw this mom in jail because that`s just as traumatic for a 1-year-old to be separated from its mother.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: Do I think there needs to be some type of monitoring? Yes. Through the judicial system, with probationary period on some parenting.
But I just think she`s dumb. I don`t think she knew any better. Some people smoke when they`re pregnant. Some people drive with kids on their lap, some people, you know, just do things that we think dangle their babies over the side of a balcony or, you know, give their kids guns and go and shoot up a school when they`re mentally ill.
I mean, parents make dumb decisions. I think she`s just dumb and didn`t know any better and needs to be educated and monitored.
PINSKY: Listen, Sam just said there ought to be a test offered as people leave the hospital with their child and don`t get to go home with the child until they pass, just so they don`t get a driver`s license.
SCHACHER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: I don`t know. I feel overwhelmed by this.
But according to initial reports -- according to this report, well, it`s her right to have a kid whenever she wants to. Mom`s being doing this for a couple months but police told us they have not found proof of that so far.
Kirsten, does that make any difference to you? I say 10 minutes in a closet alone for a 1-year-old is sufficient to have really -- a really potentially brain-altering trauma.
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, FORMER MISS AMERICA: Well, absolutely. I mean, and just not only the brain, but also the physical body as you said. You know, the child could have died. It only takes one time for a child that age to be in such a circumstance, where the child could have died.
But the fact that she`s been doing it over and over is just appalling. I think all of our emotion response to that is oh my goodness, please, more important than arrest to the mom is get this child into safe hands. You know, get this child out of her custody. And basically I think until she`s able to prove --
WALSH: No, no, no.
HAGLUND: But she`s -- no, she`s living with a grandparent right now. So until that mother and that father are able to prove that they have developed parenting skills and know now not to be able to do that and can really demonstrate that, I don`t think she needs to go to jail but that kid needs to be placed in safe hands before those parents are able to take her back.
PINSKY: Wendy, you disagree.
WALSH: I disagree. I think she does need parenting supervision. But an attachment injury at a vulnerable time as a young infant can last for life.
But I want to say something else, because there`s a much bigger issue here. Dr. Drew, as you know, I`ve been a single mother for nine years. I`ve been had very sick babies finally sleeping. I had another needing medicine.
The pharmacy is five minutes away. I`ve had the thought, do I disrupt a sleeping sick baby to go five minutes? Maybe I could run -- I`ve had all those thoughts and had to take the baby and she barfed all over Walgreens.
So, I want everybody out there when you see mothers dragging their babies on buses and in stores and wherever, who are sick and coughing on your kid, that this is what we have to do, because our culture does not support single motherhood. They do not give a support system to us. If we have to go, we have to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, OK, this baby is a year old, right? Been left unattended many times. What are some of the psychological effects that`s already happening to this child?
PINSKY: Let`s sort of recap what we`ve learned here. Is it ignorance, dangerous when you`re a parent? Screwed up people will have screwed up kids. That`s just simply a fact of our country today.
And that Wendy brought it up, what`s called attachment trauma. That you need a certain amount of connection to the mom particularly and it has to be attuned a certain way. When you`re left abandoned or if mom is taken away, both, that`s why she`s arguing against that mom being taken away, both can have lifelong effects, can alter how the personality develops, can alter how we develop the capacity of emotional regulation.
This child will have some issues.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Potentially. Potentially. Unless there is a focus made on that child, helping that child feel safe and secure again because children are also kind of resilient and they can repair, but if the repair isn`t offered, it`s going it be bad times.
Next up, is this baby-faced teen a serial rapist? It may be even worse than cops know. We`ll tell you why after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of these victims not only verbally said, no, no, no, as he was pulling off, physically forcing off their bras, their underwear, and penetrating them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Driving them out to the forest and then saying, I`m not going to give you a ride back way miles out in the forest until you have sex with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a serious serial sex offender and rapist.
PINSKY: This is Tyler Cost, a high school student accused of sexually assaulting 18 girls, possibly more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Highly manipulative, very charismatic and charming.
SCHACHER: He bullied them to the point where two people moved out of state, where one girl tried to take her own life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That he was threatening to kill people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we castrate him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This indictment was filed against Tyler Cost this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This indictment includes 11 victims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of them minors aged between 12 and 17 years old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We`re live from New York.
And here today is the social outrage of the day. Tyler Cost, the high school student and alleged serial rapist officially charged, 27 counts involving the sexual abuse of 11 different girls. Some of these victims were as young as 12.
Cops say he`d been victimizing girls for the past five years. If convicted he could face up to 335 years in jail.
Back with our panel: Segun, Diana, and Danine.
Segun, he claims he was the one being bullied by all these girls.
ODUOLOWU: OK, well --
PINSKY: And I think the mom even supported that point of view.
SCHACHER: She did.
ODUOLOWU: Well, before I get to all of that, with all due respect to Dr. Wendy, those parents, the numb skull parents with the closet -- they were married. They weren`t single moms. So, I get the point. But those parents were married.
As it pertains to this kid, I don`t believe rapists and I don`t believe pedophiles can be rehabilitated. The fact that he`s a serial rapist this young, I would go for chemical castration or I would go for the death penalty. I know he`s young and I know people are looking at the baby face and they think that it`s unpopular.
But it was the way he was bullying, attacking, systemically destroying the lives of these girls, to be able to do that at such an early age, Dr. Drew, I`ll cede the floor to you knowing more about the human mind. But I don`t think this type of kid can be rehabilitated. So, sending him to prison, its not enough.
PINSKY: Now, let me get to Danine who deals with criminals on an ongoing basis. These alleged rapes supposedly have been going on since he was 13 years old. I think if that`s true, Segun may be on to something.
MANETTE: Let me make sure everyone is clear, forcible rape is not about lust or passion or sex or anything like that. It`s about anger and violence and control. That`s what it is.
SCHACHER: Right.
MANETTE: I in 25 years working in the criminal justice system have never seen a serial rapist rehabilitated.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
MANETTE: Because they go to jail and they rape there. The only way that I`ve ever seen a serial rapist be stopped is with a bullet.
SCHACHER: Wow.
ODUOLOWU: Danine, you and me are on the same page. Love it, Danine. Love it. We`re there, me and you.
SCHACHER: To your point, Danine and Segun, I mean, this kid seems he has no empathy. He gets off on, as you said, Danine, not only the control, but the manipulation, and the verbal, and emotional abuse. I`m really curious about his parents, because they have completely made excuses for him.
DANINE MANETTE, AUTHOR, "ULTIMATE BETRAYAL": And usually .--
SCHACHER: I don`t see how - go ahead.
MANETTE: It`s an anger issue towards a female in your life. Like, for instance, maybe the mother either allowed abuse or abused him.
SCHACHER: Wow.
MANETTE: Or perhaps maybe she`s done something to him that`s made him so angry. Usually you are so angry against a woman that you act out in this way and you become violent and you need to control women because you feel that they`ve controlled you to a certain extent.
ODUOLOWU: So repeatedly, though? So repeatedly?
MANETTE: Yes. Yes. He`s so angry. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: That 20 .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I think you might be on to something. I think that`s right. There could be some real biological -- a psychopath is somebody who really the brain is not working right. The serial nature of this makes you think about that. And Diana, I`m going to read you the police report. We got the victim accounts. Here`s one instance of what a victim said. He attempted to kiss her through the vehicle of her window, he then grabbed her breast and crotch. She jumped out. He chased her around the vehicles. After she left, Tyler threatened to beat her up, Tyler had threatened to shoot her and every other girl who has turned down his sexual advances.
MANETTE: Angry.
PINSKY: Diana, do you think this guy is going away for a while?
DIANA AIZMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he`s going away for probably the rest of his life.
MANETTE: Good.
AIZMAN: And I don`t disagree that is the right way to go. I think that this guy is every woman`s worst nightmare. He`s exactly the guy that you want to avoid in dark alleys, in any social setting. He is a nightmare. And having him caught so young probably saved a lot of girls from being victimized and maybe even killed at some point in the future.
SCHACHER: Yep.
MANETTE: Right.
ODUOLOWU: And I love it when everyone is on my side of swift vengeance. No, because I believe that sometimes you have to be -- I know we all want to be compassionate but 27 people`s lives were ruined and countless others, parents. And the people that are going to come - for one kid? For one kid, his life is not worth the 27 others he`s ruined.
PINSKY: And you remember, I started tonight to talk a lot about childhood trauma. These are traumas that are perpetrated on teenagers which can be equally as problematic. It can change their feelings about their relationships the rest of their life. And oftentimes, and Danine, you back me up on this, this is the crazy thing about these kinds of perpetrators, is they will often perpetrate on people who have been traumatized during their childhood. Because they somehow sniff or know that they`ll freeze and they`ll make good objects of their .
AIZMAN: That`s crazy --
PINSKY: You know .
ODUOLOWU: Damage finds damage.
PINSKY: Agree?
MANETTE: They seek out their victims. They know who to target. They seek out people that they know are not going to say anything and that they can mentally or physically control.
AIZMAN: Right.
PINSKY: And once they`ve done that, when you reinjure a kid like that, the kid that may have had some unwanted contact in childhood and now you rape, that`s PTSD, that`s chronic trouble. That`s going to be ongoing -- so, Segun, once again, once again, this is a disturbing night. Not because just these stories, but because I`m agreeing with Segun every episode, every block I agree with Segun.
Next up, new surveillance videos just released. Four members of one family found dead after a fireball consumes the house they were in. Was this murder? Murder/suicide? Accident? We`ll discuss after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEIGHBOR: The fire`s in the house. I was walking my dogs, and as I walked by the house exploded. And it`s a high fire and it exploded!
DISPATCHER: OK, OK, hold on. Stay on the line. Do not hang up.
NEIGHBOR: Oh, my god. This is so bad. I was walking my dogs and the house just exploded. Oh, my god.
DISPATCHER: Calm down and take a deep breath, OK? I know it`s hard.
NEIGHBOR: It`s just so horrible. I was walking by as it was exploding. Oh, my god. I was walking by as it was exploding.
DISPATCHER: OK. Do you see flames and smoke?
NEIGHBOR: No, ma`am, the house is engulfed in flames, ma`am. It`s a two- story house. Oh, my god.
DISPATCHER: OK. Do you know if anybody`s inside the building?
NEIGHBOR: Yes, ma`am, I`m sure. It was five - it was about 5:40 in the morning as I was walking by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam in New York City, and Sam, that is what you call an acute stress reaction. I was talking about posttraumatic stress reaction. Anybody that witnesses anything like that will have an acute stress reaction.
SCHACHER: She`s been terrified.
PINSKY: Terrified.
SCHACHER: Who wouldn`t have been?
PINSKY: They will have anxiety, tremulousness, flashbacks. They won`t sleep right for maybe a couple of weeks even.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And then if people have not had childhood traumas, it passes. See the difference?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Behind the gates of that affluent community, celebrity mansions, a luxury home explodes in flames. A family of four dead inside. And we have just learned all four had been shot. Kirsten, Wendy, Danine are back to help us unravel this story. Danine, what do you think went down here?
MANETTE: Well, I think if we looked at some bank records, it would all make sense. It seems like this dad was bouncing around over the last ten years from job to job. The wife didn`t work. They lived in this affluent community. The kids were in expensive private schools. I think that this was a financial situation that was unraveling, and that the dad just made this decision, you know, just because he didn`t feel as though he had any other options. I think this was a complete murder/suicide situation.
PINSKY: Speaking of the dad, I want you to look at the surveillance video. He is caught - the father caught on camera buying a basket full of fireworks. Look at that.
SCHACHER: And first of all, it`s illegal to buy, purchase, or even explode fireworks in Florida. By the way, unless you have a permit.
PINSKY: So, what .
SCHACHER: I have no idea. But it`s completely illegal. I looked it up. And in Florida, you cannot unless you have a permit.
PINSKY: He also got gas, gasoline and cans three days prior to that. Wendy, what do you think? Do you think Danine is right? That it`s just somebody who`s got severe financial stressors?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think it`s obviously something created this emotional stressor enough for this guy to do this, but and if you do follow the money, you will get the evidence that you need because men identify with money more than anything. And for them to take a step down in life is very -- it actually insults their masculinity if they`re the type of person driven by the idea that money is linked to happiness and self-esteem and identity.
SCHACHER: But to kill your children and your wife --
WALSH: Well, of course. He`s crazy.
SCHACHER: Can it really just be financial? It`s insane to me. I can`t imagine that.
PINSKY: Yeah, the dad had taken off the last year from work, he was volunteering at the kids` school. Kirsten, what do you think?
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, FORMER MISS AMERICA: This is -- everyone`s just -- it`s horrible. And can you imagine something like this happening in your neighborhood? Which you think is safe? And, you know, I was just - combing through all the details about this family and this man for some kind of motive or some kind of warning signs because whenever something like this happens, you want to say, you know, what could we have done to prevent this? Or what were the signs? Or what can we look for in the future? But there were no signs. And that`s, you know, kind of leads down to that, you know, Hannah Arendt wrote that "Banality of Evil", you know. Everyone has it in them, so to speak. And it`s like what caused this man to just flip? If it was, indeed, the father?
PINSKY: Well .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well ..
HAGLUND: What do we have to look at?
PINSKY: And by the way, I called Kristen Kirsten. I apologize for that. I finally met Kristen tonight and I screw your name up. But here`s my thing. Here`s my deal. I smell - you know, I worked with addicts and alcoholics for over 20 years. I know their signature behaviors and I`m telling you the drama in all this and the extreme sudden something about it in me says --
SCHACHER: Do you think he was on drugs?
PINSKY: Something about it. I don`t know. Wendy, you know what I`m talking about here? He wasn`t bipolar, he didn`t have a long history of depression. Those aren`t the stories we`re hearing here.
WALSH: CPS has never been called to the house.
PINSKY: We`ve got a guy that`s bouncing around at jobs and he seems otherwise healthy. What`s going -- oh, Danine. Tell me, what do you think? Danine?
MANETTE: Well, I think - I think if we look at the records at the school where he was a treasurer, that there may have been something going on with the money and that maybe they were closing in on something and that he was getting a little panicky. It`s one thing to lose your job and not have financial stability, it`s another thing when the law enforcement is closing in on you. I`m just speculating.
SCHACHER: That actually makes a lot of sense.
PINSKY: We`re all speculating.
WALSH: It could be this giant midlife crisis where the guy loses his job, has a giant identity crisis, delves into parenting, I`ll volunteer at the school since I`m good with money. But remember, he doesn`t reduce his lifestyle. You know, when you lose your job, you take your kids out of private school. You move out of mansions. You take a step down. But he tried to maintain in this kind of delusionary step that everything would be OK and then I think it started to spiral down.
PINSKY: Maybe, maybe, but usually those guys take themselves out and not everybody with them.
Next up, a teacher gives her student a happy birthday spanking. We will show you how this video has gone viral. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
um: A teacher gives her 15-year-old student a birthday present. Allegedly a lap dance.
Uf: Was it a lap dance or was it just a happy birthday celebration? Can you talk to us about that?
Uf: No comment.
Um: The details are sickening. Investigators say she rubbed her body on a student while his classmates watched.
Uf: During this four-minute lap dance, he was aroused.
Uf: When you`re in the strip club, you don`t even get that kind of treatment. It`s hands off the strippers.
Uf: Get her out of there. She does not deserve to be a teacher anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Leeann, always pulling her punches. Back with Sam, Kirsten, Chris, m "Loveline" co-host, my (INAUDIBLE) who sends me lovely pictures on my iPhone. Thank you, Mike. And Danine.
SCHACHER: I saw them, too, Mike.
PINSKY: You did see them? Oh my god. The unforgettable lap dancing teacher. One of our most tweeted stories. And tonight she has competition. This video - well, that`s the lap dancing teacher, but that video is captured by a high school student cell phone. A teacher administers birthday spanks to a male student. He`s there lying across her lap in the middle of a busy classroom. The educator described as a longtime teacher was reprimanded. Danine, is a reprimand enough? Or does she even need to be reprimanded? Is this just fun and games? You tell me.
MANETTE: I can`t even compare this teacher with the teacher last week. That teacher last week was a freak.
SCHACHER: I agree.
MANETTE: She`s the one who comes to school on Halloween dressed like a prostitute. That, you know, she had a lot of enjoyment out of doing that lap dance. That was something sexualized. To me, this was something that was just -- something that the teacher thought was going to be funny. It was really in poor taste and really inappropriate. But I just don`t think that she meant anything sexual or offensive by it. I think she thought she was having fun. She`s been there 20 years. The kids are laughing. Everybody`s joking. And I just don`t see those two as any way comparable. I think that maybe it`s speaking to .
PINSKY: Mike, Mike hold on. Hold on. Before, Mike, you say anything, I`m fearful of what you might say. I want to get to Kirsten.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST "LOVELINE": Come on.
PINSKY: What are saying? I`m just saying.
HAGLUND: Well, you know, of course, if I had a child and she or he was in this classroom getting spanked, why aren`t you learning, why are you getting spanked for your birthday?
MANETTE: Right.
PINSKY: You know, when I first read the headline for the story I thought, oh my gosh, the kid is getting spanked in school? But then I realized that it was a birthday thing. You know, and a punishment should fit the crime. So to speak.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: So, you`re cool with it. Kirsten is cool with it. I agree with Kirsten. No, I`ll support you on that. Mike, what do you say now?
CATHERWOOD: I - look, I understand in comparison to a teacher giving a kid a four-minute lap dance which I`m still trying to wrap my head around. I can`t even imagine how much better I would have liked school if my teachers gave me lap dances. But from a lady`s point of view it doesn`t seem that threatening. It seems kind of innocuous. She was just kind of - but you have got to understand. He`s a teenage boy pressing his body into his female teacher. Believe me, it was sexualized for him. If that happened to me, she would get a hole poked right through her leg.
MANETTE: Isn`t she, like, 100 years old?
HAGLUND: Oh my gosh.
PINSKY: Hang on. But it`s a boundary problem. Mike, listen, let`s bring a little of "Loveline" in here, if you don`t mind. Are you prepared to talk about, you know, your perception, you know, what you were lucky enough to have been participating in when you were a young boy and realizing when a young child is exposed to some of this stuff, it`s not good for them.
CATHERWOOD: Well, no it really isn`t. I mean I certainly was hypersexualized as a kid, far too young. And I don`t mean that as like a joke. I mean from the kind of comments I say on the show. I really was exposed to sex probably far too young and it was something I thought I wanted. And even things that aren`t necessarily sexual contact, when you`re dealing with a teenage boy, you have to understand you`re essentially dealing with a testosterone-fueled like magnet man who`s just a vehicle for a boner. That`s what a boy is at that age, he is just constantly thinking about sex. So, any type of inappropriate contact, which I do think teacher/student contact like that is, you know, tremendously inappropriate. Any type of inappropriate contact is going to accelerate that kind of breakdown between intimacy and sexuality.
PINSKY: Right. And that`s right. The breakdown and body boundaries are being violated. Here again, big people have to take care of little people. You have to really make issues of body boundaries so people understand those are meant to be respected. And kind of inappropriate teacher/student conduct may be going on for a long time, but it may be just now that we`re seeing it because everyone holds up a cell phone and gets a picture of it. And so, once again, the boundaries between public and private are breaking down with mixed results. I think it`s a good thing in this result, in this situation.
SCHACHER: We`re actually getting a lot of tweets about that.
PINSKY: OK.
CATHERWOOD: Yeah, look, look, if Sam needs a birthday spanking, though, don`t get me wrong, she`s still going to get it.
PINSKY: Thank god she`s in New York with her husband.
SCHACHER: Yeah, and I`ll be sure to call you. Don`t worry, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, you should.
PINSKY: Don`t call her too late.
SCHACHER: So, OK, all right. So let me read -- wow -- the tweet. Okay. So this is coming in from Toshi, and she tweets exactly what you were speaking towards, Dr. Drew. "Cameras in the classroom equal accountability for teachers and students." But then we`re seeing the exact opposite reaction saying that nothing seems to be as you stated last night - private anymore.
PINSKY: That`s right.
SCHACHER: Everything is publicized.
PINSKY: They`re putting - putting things up. They are looking for things to put up.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: It`s a mixed bag. But I think I really - I`m going to say this a lot I think going forward. That I don`t really think it`s any different than any other new technology that has hit humanity, whether it`s hieroglyphics, or novel.
SCHACHER: Hieroglyphics?
PINSKY: I`m just saying, they posted stories on the wall. People read them. Oh, no, the private and the public are being -- we better seal it off in a pyramid. All right. Listen, enough.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I`m not exactly making my point in a vivid way.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: So let`s go to our next story. Which is Jada Pinkett Smith, she sounds off on the controversial Instagram photo of her teen daughter and an older man. We`re back with her comments and those photographs after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Kirsten, Mike, and Danine. Willow Smith, the 13-year old daughter of Will Smith and Jada Pinkett, has ignited a Twitter firestorm since having appeared in these controversial Instagram photos with a shirtless adult male. Sam, tell me more about this story.
SCHACHER: OK. So, the shirtless male, he is 20 years old. He`s an actor and a musician. His name is Arias Moses. And actually a lot of people know him from the "Hannah Montana" series on Disney, he played opposite Miley Cyrus. But he took down those photos that he posted on Instagram and Tumblr immediately when the controversy erupted.
PINSKY: So, he was embarrassed.
SCHACHER: Well, yes. But a Willow Smith fan actually reposted it. Now, many people are outraged saying that the photos are sexually suggestive. However, there are sources saying, hey, this family, they love him, he`s really close to the family. This is innocent. And he views her like a little sister.
PINSKY: All right. Let me go to my dynamite here, Danine, does it cross the line?
MANETTE: Well, you know, I have sons who are in - the 19 and 21 and I have a young daughter. And even though my daughter would love to hang out with my son and his friends when they come over. I don`t allow it, because I think it`s inappropriate. She needs to be where she is. And they need to be what they are, doing what they do, talking about what they talk about, playing their video games. I think it`s inappropriate. I wonder why he`s even interested in hanging out with a 13-year-old girl.
PINSKY: Well, but maybe - maybe .
SCHACHER: What if he`s just watching TV?
PINSKY: Yes, Saturday afternoon. Kirsten, what do you say?
HAGLUND. I don`t like it.
PINSKY: Kirsten?
HAGLUND: Well, I mean it just breaks my heart that girls are being sexualized in an earlier an earlier age, are being put into very suggestive outfits. Displayed in very sexual ways. And that`s what this is. I mean you can`t deny that it`s sex sexually suggestive. You know, and I - remember, when I was 13 and 14 years old I had a brother four years older than me, and the gulf there only four years, not even a 20-year old. The gulf there in maturity and experience and in what the person is going to want out after a relationship are completely different. It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: Well, let`s, let`s but Mike, I don`t think we`re suggesting there was a relationship there.
HAGLUND: No.
PINSKY: It`s just sort of a suggestive photograph that brings up all these issues that people are uncomfortable with.
CATHERWOOD: Right. And I personally agree with both young ladies that it would be inappropriate to kind of socialize, you know, the 20-year-old social circles and the 13-year-old social circles and kind of introduce them into each other. But this is clearly a close family friend and they are just hanging out.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: I kind of think that for everybody to get upset just because he`s shirtless just puts a finger on why we`re so kind of backwards in our view of sexuality. I mean, nothing really inappropriate is going on here.
PINSKY: Well, listen, Mike, listen --
SCHACHER: I agree with you, Mike, 100 percent.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Kirsten, last thought.
HAGLUND: But this is why this is important because young people look up to girls like her. They look to other kids their age and see their behaviors and they copy those behaviors. So it doesn`t matter whether or not they`re in a relationship. They`re seeing a 13-year-old little girl in bed with a 20-year-old man. And if they see that and that`s normal to them, they`re going to start copying those behaviors. So that`s why we have to be upset about these images coming out whether or not we know the relationship.
PINSKY: Let me, though, tell you, Jada Pinkett-Smith addressed the controversy with paparazzi. Here`s what she said to them. "There`s nothing sexual about that picture or that situation. You guys are projecting your trash on to it. You`re acting like covert pedophiles and that is not cool."
MANETTE: She better get it together.
PINSKY: And Danine - No, you guys, I kind of support her on this.
MANETTE: Well, you know, keep in mind, Dr. Drew, I`m a product of my profession, and so I see the seedy side of the society and so I`m far more protective of my kids than a lot of people are of theirs. So, that`s where I come from on this.
PINSKY: I understand that. I`m with you on that. And I`ve certainly seen horrible trauma, again, we`re talking about trauma because people didn`t watch out for that sort of thing. Kirsten`s point is also well taken, it raises issues of the sexualization of young children. That`s something we, women particularly, we have got to be aware of and careful with. But I think in this case, Mike, I think you hit on it, I think it`s just family hanging out on the weekend and --
SCHACHER: Very close family.
PINSKY: And just happened to catch a picture of it. Once again, once again, we are talking about social media breaking down the boundaries between public and private and here, the private becomes interpreted as something inappropriate when in fact the private in reality may have been far different. Maybe people just hanging out. It does not diminish the fact that we`ve got to be aware of something I`ve been talking about all night which is the issue of childhood trauma that`s come up multiple times here and I think one of the important messages early on in this show was it if you`ve been traumatized, you make a good victim for these victimizers. So please be aware if you are attracted to people and circumstances that are familiar to you, they may be familiar because you were attracted to those same -- people have this crazy propensity to re-enact traumas over and over again. It`s because we`re attracted to these people and circumstances that remind us of the original perpetrators and they, the perpetrator, take full advantage of that. DVR us then watch us any time. "Forensic Files" is next. Tonight, a bloody car crash and an anonymous phone call lead investigators to a killer. "Forensic Files" is the show that follows us and it begins right now.
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