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Sanjay Gupta MD

"Yes, You Can Have It All"; Debate Over Deer Antler Supplements

Aired May 11, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN HOST: Tens of millions of people take dietary supplements. You may be one of them. You want a shortcut. You want it fast. Who doesn't?

Well, lately, there's one supplement that all my friends have been asking about. So, I decided to investigate this. And it turned out to be fascinating. I'm going to have the lowdown in just a minute on that.

But, first, happy Mother's Day. It's an important day, to my mom, my wife. I have three daughters as well.

Being a mom is a tough job, no doubt. And now there's a new study that says it is just getting tougher. Meaning it's more likely to be stressful and demanding for my daughters than it was even for my mom. And it was no picnic, I can tell you, raising me and my brother.

So, what is happening? And what can we do about it?

Well, to start off, I want to show you the morning of one particularly busy mom. She and her husband both work full time, and they've got four children, all under the age of 6.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I get back from the gym, sometimes somebody is in the kitchen waiting for me.

I'd love to know if any families really do sit down for breakfast at this time of the morning.

Come on in. What's the time now?

This is India. Can you say good morning?

This is James. James, say hi to everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, everybody.

There's a lot of juggling. There you go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to go and have a shower now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Rinse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being able to divide and conquer is certainly one of the secrets to success.

Should we get you dressed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How's that? It always seems that we're saying hurry up, finish this, get on with that. We need to get a move on. Those are your shoes. Can you please put them on?

UNIDENTIFIED KID: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is all of this in here?

Have a good day, you girls. And no spitting.

What about milk for Lola?

Jack, your bag is undone. Right. Please.

We've never been late yet.

Who is your chaperon today?

OK. Give me a kiss.

As soon as I sit at my desk, it's wonderful. You just kind of sit and you go, ah, that's great.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: I am just exhausted just watching that. So, we're going to talk about this.

So, here with me in New York is CNN commentator and human behavior expert Mel Robbins. You know her.

And in San Francisco, syndicated radio host, Sandra Tsing Loh. She's got a new book out just this week. It's called "The Madwoman in the Volvo: My Year of Raging Hormones."

Welcome to both of you. I'm going to tread lightly a little bit during this segment.

But, Sandra, let me start with you. It's quite a title to the book. Where did it come from? This whole juggling act we're talking about, how did you decide to write this?

SANDRA TSING LOH, AUTHOR, "THE MADWOMAN IN THE VOLVO: Well, I'm a mother. I'm right now a 52-year-old mother of a teen and a pre-tween daughter, and I'm menopausal. So, all these hormones are hitting at the same time for mothers who are in the sandwich generation I call it, the triple M's, middle-aged mothers in menopause.

Women feel very overwhelmed right now. And our coping strategies, you know, all the medical advice we get to be honest is cut out alcohol, sugar and caffeine which is something some of us live for in a Monday morning. And just -- and all the medical advice is always just have more walks, drink eight glasses of water a day.

GUPTA: Yep.

TSING LOH: Do yoga and eat kale.

Please tell me why kale is always the magic food, like, all my problems are going to be solved with kale?

GUPTA: What are you going to -- I mean, what should mothers know on this Mother's Day?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: What should they know?

GUPTA: What are you telling people?

ROBBINS: Well, first of all, here's what I'm telling people. Sheryl Sandberg wrote that great book "Lean In", but if you want to lean into work, you better lean away from the dishwasher. Because one of the things that happens for women is that there was another study done, Sanjay, and this is really interesting.

Sixty-two percent of women who were surveyed said even if they could afford help, they still wouldn't delegate because the person wouldn't do it right. So, for all of you at home, that have ever held open the dishwasher and seen, oh, my gosh, they didn't stack the cups right and you've rearranged it or you've refolded the laundry or you scolded the kids when they have shrunken a sweater, you are screwing yourself over.

So, for Mother's Day, I invite you all to lower your standards particularly on chores and start to get your kids to help. Because the truth is, I have an 8-year-old son, a 15-year-old girl, a 13-year- old girl and, you know, my poor husband -- Sandra, I was laughing, because the last time I had a hot flash, Sanjay, was right on this set on camera, so I'm hoping I don't have one while we're talking right now.

GUPTA: Let's heat it up in here, yes.

ROBBINS: It finally dawned on me.

If my 8-year-old can do a 372-piece Lego kit in 37 minutes flat, he can bus the table and do laundry. But it's my own expectations that are making my life miserable.

GUPTA: That's well put. By the way, have you been to our house, because that's exactly what happens.

ROBBINS: Yours?

GUPTA: That's exactly.

ROBBINS: But I bet you're the one that's reloading. I bet when you're home you kind of like things a certain way. GUPTA: Sometimes if you don't do a great job you may not be asked to do it again. I'm going to leave it that way.

ROBBINS: Correct. Well, I think a lot of partners don't do a good job, because they know we'll be like -- that's it, it's easier.

GUPTA: It's strategic.

ROBBINS: Yes.

GUPTA: Sandra, I saw you nodding your head. You agree with a lot of this. I am really struck by this fact, it's harder, I have young daughters and my mother is probably watching the program right now, studies seem to show that it will be harder for my daughters than it was for my mother in some ways.

No disrespect to my mom. She worked very, very hard. It wasn't easy raising me or my brother. But this is challenging work.

Is it -- are we preordained, Mel, for this to continue to get harder?

ROBBINS: You know, part of what we're dealing with and I'm sure Sandra will agree, when they look at most studies of households, almost 70 percent of households are dual-earner households. But only 20 percent of them share the chores. And so, until women -- and I truly mean this -- until we start to demand that the work to maintain a home is shared among everybody that lives in it, we are going to constantly be behind the eight ball in both finding times for ourselves and also feeling, I guess, energized enough to take on more in the areas of our life outside the home.

Sandra, what do you think?

TSING LOH: I totally agree with that. And I think that there's something of taking on all the problems of the world that women do today. I think, for example, we always get the statistics that, man, if kids don't get a home cooked meal every night together around the table, they will be obese and have diabetes II and it's up to the moms to do it.

And that's sort of another level of pressure on us that we feel, oh, my gosh, that there's somehow the blame that always comes to the mom. We always have the new book, like the tiger mom book or French mom book and it always sorts of hits American moms of something else we're not doing.

And I love your idea of lowering the bar, exactly, on Mother's Day, stay in bed all day and if somebody wants to give you a Mother's Day card, maybe you let them in or maybe it won't, because it's up to you to do your own thing.

I think with the home cooked meal, you know, Roseanne Barr used to say in her wonderful sitcom way back when, if my kids are alive at the end of the day of, that's enough.

GUPTA: Has this conversation felt cathartic for you, Sandra? Is this --

TSING LOH: Absolutely. I think that what we're really --

ROBBINS: I want kale. I'm craving kale she mentioned it so much.

TSING LOH: Kale and chocolate and pear with one. You know, I am still laughing because I hear so many women's stories how they're really getting through it and how many women of our age are taking half their weight watchers points and putting it into Pinot Grigio. It's kind of like, you know, whatever. Women are doing a walk --

ROBBINS: Well, actually, vodka on the rocks has a lot lower point value.

TSING LOH: It does but --

ROBBINS: I stopped drinking bourbon a lot because it has a lower point value.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: Sanjay is like, stop talking.

GUPTA: We've gone from kale to calorie-free vodka, we've gone all over the map, but look, happy Mother's Day to both of you. You are great mothers and, you know, it's great for dads to hear these conversations as well, happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to my own mother and to my dear wife. Appreciate you guys on the program today.

ROBBINS: Thanks for having us.

TSING LOH: Thank you.

GUPTA: And coming up, a lot of people have been asking me about this popular dietary supplement. Deer antler velvet, does it work? Or could it do more harm than good?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: You may have never heard of deer antler velvet, but you probably will, sooner rather than later. It has exploded in many parts of the world, including right here in the United States.

Now, despite very little being known about how it works or even if it does work, we found a surprising number of athletes, trainers and doctors who swear by this supplement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Deer antler velvet, it's this dietary supplement that a surprising number of athletes, trainers and doctors are turning to. They believe it helps improve muscle strength, recovery and boost energy. It's been used in China for thousands of years.

And the premise is pretty simple. A deer's antlers grow fast, more than an inch a day. Could those regenerative qualities transfer over to human beings?

ADAM GREENBERG, FORMER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: I dove for a ball and tore my rotator cuff 90 percent all the way through.

GUPTA: Desperate after his injury, professional ball player Adam Greenberg turned to deer antler velvet at the suggestion of one of his doctors.

How quickly would you feel these results after taking the pills?

GREENBERG: Within the first couple days, I knew there was something positive going on. Dr. Kwok called me up and he said, how were you playing? I said, what do you mean? He said, you don't have a rotator cuff. It's basically nonexistent.

GUPTA: Intrigued by Adam's story, his orthopedic surgeon Dr. Patrick Kwok decided to start testing this on his own. The first thing he wanted to try and confirm: safety.

DR. PATRICK KWOK, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON: The first 100, we tracked them fairly closely, you know, with, you know, questionnaires, phone calls, to really make sure if there's any adverse effects that can come from taking the product.

GUPTA (on camera): So, the 100 patients or so that you've followed, you haven't seen any harm from this?

KWOK: Correct.

GUPTA: What about benefits?

KWOK: Increased energy, you know, decreased joint pain and muscle ache and decreased recovery from injury.

GUPTA: The immediate reaction is suspicious or dubious about this sort of thing because it sounds too good to be true it probably is all of that. What are you comfortable about saying about this now?

KWOK: I think it really boils, like, to we didn't invent this, the proof is in the 2,000 years of use in Chinese or Asian medicine.

GUPTA (voice-over): Deer antler velvet is sold in the United States as liquid drops, capsules and as a spray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two or three sprays, three times a day.

GUPTA: The cost ranges from $30 a bottle, to a couple dollars depending on the product and the strength. Because it is sold as supplement, not a medicine, companies don't have to prove there's any benefit.

So, we decided to look into it, combing through dozens of study looking at the effects of deer antler velvet on humans. Now, despite the enthusiasm of people like Dr. Kwok, none of these studies showed a convincing benefit from taking the product.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heart rate's coming up and everything's looking great.

GUPTA: Only one on strength training showed even a possible positive effect. Greg Broeder was that study's author.

CRAIG BROEDER, RESEARCHER, NOTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY: I had really positive findings but it's so small it needs to be repeated with a large number of subjects before I would say you got to take it -- this is a given. This is absolutely going to help you.

GUPTA: Endocrinologist Dr. Alan Rogel (ph) believes any positive effects are due to nothing more than a placebo effect.

(on camera): If I were somebody who came to you and said, look, I'm taking this stuff, it seems to work for me. I feel stronger. I feel faster, what would you say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say don't take it. That would be easy.

GUPTA: Because it doesn't work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

GUPTA: I'm not going to die from it, but it doesn't work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, exactly.

GUPTA (voice-over): Now, some believers point to something known as IGF-1. That's a growth factor found in the antlers of deer. IGF-1 is banned by the world anti-doping authority as a performance enhancing drug.

So, we decided to test it for ourselves. We wanted to find out how much of the IGF-1 is really in there in what you buy. We bought more than $1,000 worth of deer antler sprays, drops and powder, 12 different products and then we had them tested at the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Lab in Salt Lake City.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, I'm testing these supplements for IGF-1.

GUPTA: What we found was somewhat surprising. None of the products had more than a tiny amount of deer IGF-1. But that doesn't stop Dr. Kwok or many of the other doctors we spoke to about for this piece who do believe deer antler velvet replaces deficiencies that we all have.

KWOK: It has naturally occurring glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid, and those happen to be, you know, the building blocks of cartilage.

GUPTA: In fact, Dr. Kwok was so impressed he invested in a company that Adam Greenberg and a team of athletes started to sell the product themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This would jump it to the whole next level really, really quickly.

GUPTA: But even they acknowledge the science is not yet there and this is by no means a magic potion.

GREENBERG: So, it's not "take this and you're just going to be an amazing athlete. It's eating a non-inflammatory diet, putting the right food into your body, taking deer antler.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And that last bit is pretty good advice. I mean, you can't take this stuff and expect it's going to replace good workouts or good eating.

Speaking of which, I'm going to talk next about cravings, we all get them. My vice: ice cream, just about any flavor. Now, I decided to show some smarter alternatives to some of your favorite foods. It's going to leave you feeling full without packing on the pounds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: You know, next time you find yourself craving your favorite food, you should know this. You've got options.

Brad Gruno of Brad's Raw Foods, you've seen him, you've seen his kale and veggie chips I'm sure at your local health food store. Well, he's the author of a new book, there it is there. It's called "Brad's Raw Made Easy." And he says, look, you don't have to sacrifice taste or fun to make this all work.

Welcome to the program.

BRAD GRUNO, BRAD'S RAW FOODS: Thank you very much.

GUPTA: This has been a personal journey for you to some extent.

GRUNO: It really has. It really has. Just going through a process of learning more about foods, I think, and how I use foods to lose some weight. I lost about 40 pounds about six years ago just from eating more fruits and vegetables.

GUPTA: Mindless eating is a big issue. If food's around, people are going to eat it. Let's quickly talk about some ways you can substitute your cravings. You've got candy around you say --

GRUNO: Exactly. Go to some dates or some raisins or some goji berries.

GUPTA: Cranberries.

GRUNO: Cranberries.

GUPTA: Have the stuff out.

GRUNO: If you just have it out, you know, you're going to grab it.

GUPTA: Pasta.

GRUNO: Instead of pasta, use zucchini that's ground up. Put some tomato sauce on it or something if you have a pasta craving.

GUPTA: Does it taste good?

GRUNO: It's great.

GUPTA: You like that?

GRUNO: Yes.

GUPTA: Chips, again, this is going to be a big one for people.

GRUNO: Yes, exactly. And if you don't want chips there are kale chips which are so much healthier.

GUPTA: This is one of the more popular segments we've done on kale chips. You turned it into a real business.

GRUNO: Oh my God. It's just exploded in the last couple of years about kale chips. It's just going mainstream right now, kale chips.

GUPTA: Who would have thought? Kale, mainstream.

Comfort foods especially this time of year.

GRUNO: Exactly.

GUPTA: That's a common trap.

GRUNO: Yes. That is a common trap. Try to stay away from that as much as you can. Always have some good fresh vegetables and some, you know, some guacamole and hummus is kind of a comfort food, you know, if you eat it with vegetables, it really helps.

GUPTA: Yes, that's sort of the point. These are comfort foods, so you can substitute with other comfort foods as well. And these are water dense, so you're going to get a lot more food for a lot fewer calories.

GRUNO: And like the guacamole, just a good natural fat. You know what I mean? If you are eating fat, eat some good natural fat and it's kind of filling, too, to have it with the vegetables, too, well, you know?

GUPTA: And the other thing I tell people. You have the water up there but thirst and hunger are often confused in the brain. Sometimes when you are hungry, you reach for the bad food in the back row.

GRUNO: If you drink a couple of glass of water, then it just -- then you're not quite as hungry.

GUPTA: Satiate your thirst. That can help.

GRUNO: Yes.

GUPTA: Look, I wish tremendous luck with the book. I think a lot -- GRUNO: Thank you.

GUTPA: -- people should read this because, you know, we talk a lot about the problems in this country about obesity and we try to focus on solutions on this program and you're part of that. Appreciate it.

GRUNO: Thank you. Appreciate that.

GUPTA: Yes, I'm going to start eating different because of you.

Up next, do you have what it takes to cross the finish line in what organizers call the toughest one-day event anywhere in world? One tough mudder. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: You know, four years ago this month a new sort of phenomenon starting catching fire here in the United States, extreme endurance challenges. Have you seen these? These days, you've got your warrior dash and your Spartan race. But in the beginning there was just one, it was called the tough mudder. That's it there.

Funny enough my producer Ben Tinker was one of the first 5,000 participants at their first race. We decided to tag along.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys look really, really pumped up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here to enjoy all the people and like a true challenge. I think it will be a lot of fun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been talking about doing some sort of adventure race for a while now.

BEN TINKER, CNN PRODUCER: I've committed to doing this race. I'm not sure it's a good idea. When I signed up, I thought, you know, there would be all shape and sizes of people here and everyone here is in really, really good shape and I'm starting to wonder if I can cut it.

All right. So we've reached the top of the hill. I've got my number. Sophie said it's too late to turn back, so you're going to mark me up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's too late now.

TINKER: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Let's go. Come on, come on, come on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, guys. TINKER: Started out with those guys at the beginning of the race and they're a little bit ahead of me now and I'm hoping they gave everything they had at the beginning and I can catch up to them now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tough mudder!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got it, all right.

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: Get up there, come on.

TINKER: Almost at the end. How you guys feeling?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a little tired.

TINKER: How about you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fantastic.

TINKER: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good team work, guys. Good team work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Work!

WILL DEAN, FOUNDER & CEO TOUGH MUDDER: There's going to be something that tests everyone. For every different person, it's a different fear and the nice thing about a tough mudder course it tests it all in one place, all in one day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good job. Good job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: So, what did you think? (AUDIO GAP)

It's good to have producers who sometimes take on the heavy lifting when it comes to a story like this and it keeps them looking so young. Look, the camaraderie of a group event, whether it'd be a tough mudder or just a run or a walk, it's a great way to get yourself motivated to work out. It's an incredible culture. So, grab a friend, get outside and get moving.

That's going to wrap things up for SGMD today.

Time now, though, to get you back into the "CNN NEWSROOM" with Randi Kaye.