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Don Lemon Tonight

What Will Happen to L.A. Clippers?; Reactions to Televised Kiss; Do We Negotiate With Terrorists?;

Aired May 12, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: CNN TONIGHT starts now.

BILL WEIR, CNN HOST: Thank you, Anderson. I'm Bill Weir, this is CNN TONIGHT. Our lead story is Anderson Cooper and this stunning interview with Donald Sterling. I was watching people pick their jaws up off the microphone floor moments ago. Anderson, it's incredible. I imagine there's greatest hits here. I have to ask you about this Magic Johnson exchange. Why did he decide to attack one of the most beloved names in the game?

COOPER: What he says in the interview he claims Magic Johnson called him after this tape broke and suggested that he would somehow help him, he shouldn't say anything publicly. Whether that's true or not I have no idea. I'll certainly ask Magic Johnson that tomorrow. Mr. Sterling seems to claim that this was part of an effort to somehow get the team away from him. Whether that's the source of animosity or whether it is something else, he told V. Stiviano he didn't want her putting photographs of her with Magic Johnson on he Instagram or bringing him to any games.

I was stunned at what he said during the interview, you know, not only about Magic Johnson just personally, but what he's done for urban communities. As really anybody knows if you look at Magic Johnson's record, the Magic Johnson foundation for 20 years has given huge amounts of money to underserved communities.

WEIR: For anybody who missed the top of your show here's a sample of the Clippers owner and his thoughts on that community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD STERLING, OWNER, L.A. CLIPPERS: I think he wanted me to just do nothing so he could buy the team. He thought maybe the whole thing would be resolved in two weeks. What has he done? Can you tell me? Big Magic Johnson. What has he done?

COOPER: Well, he's a business person.

STERLING: He's got aids. Did he do any business -- did he help anybody in south LA?

COOPER: He has HIV doesn't have full blown aids.

STERLING: What kind of a guy goes to every city, has sex with every girl and then catches HIV. Is that someone we want to respect and tell our kids about? I think he should be ashamed of himself. I think he should go into the background. But what does he do for the black people? Doesn't do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Incredible stuff. Now his wife talked to Barbara Walters today and floated the idea that Donald may be suffering from dementia. Did you see any signs of that other than what he was saying?

COOPER: You know, look, I don't know him well enough to be able to identify, you know, early on set dementia. You have to know a person, what they were like ten years ago to know what they are like now. I only met him a week and a half ago for a few minutes and for this interview, that's the most I have ever talked to him. I will say he certainly was aware of where he was. He was well aware of what he was saying.

He was well aware of, you know, why he wanted to do the interview, what he wanted to get out of it. Interview went for more than an hour which is why we have more of it tomorrow night. I wanted to give him every opportunity to say what was on his mind and to tell his side, his side of the story. I didn't in any way get a sense while talking to him that he was not fully present, that he was in any way infirmed, and by that I mean he was not fully conscious of what he was saying.

In fact, there were times during the interview where I might be discombobulated, I might ask him one question and than few minutes later or very quickly ask another question in a different direction and he would actually return to the original question because he didn't complete his thoughts. I would be very careful about airing or talking to anybody who has any kind of dementia. I'm not a doctor but I had no indication of any reason to be concerned about his abilities to hold this interview.

WEIR: What is he hoping to achieve here? Is this a pr move? Is he making a case to the other owners?

COOPER: Part of his message is to the other owners. He is very solicitous to them in this interview. He knows that is the next shoe to drop. They are the ones who will decide whether or not he did himself any favors. He knows he's in a situation of his making by and large. He's in a situation that he's never been in before, even though he's been in some hot water before. I think he clearly believes the game is not over. He clearly believes there can be a role for him moving forward as own of this team.

WEIR: Well, what this was the pr, the Hindenburg was to blimps. We're going to dissect it for the next hour or so. Anderson Cooper we appreciate it. Much more on Donald Sterling next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK).

STERLING: That's one problem I have, Jews when they get successful they will help their people. And some of the African-Americans, maybe I'll get in trouble again, they don't want to help anybody. What has Magic Johnson really done for children's hospital, which kids are lying in the hallways. They are sick. They need a bed.

WEIR: That is more from Anderson Coopers jaw dropping interview with Donald Sterling. They say the best defense is good offense. Taking shots at Magic Johnson probably not the best rehabilitation strategy for Mr. Sterling. Meanwhile on the home front his wife Mrs. Sterling talking divorce. Is this it? Is this the final shot for the least liked owner in the NBA. Joining me now divorce attorney, famed divorce attorney Raoul Felder, also sports agent Leigh Steinberg author of The Agent. Good to see you again. Lee, let me get your reaction to this interview. Did you watch the whole thing on Anderson? What do you make of this guy?

LEIGH STEINBERG, AUTHOR: This was sort of a death rattle and I don't know who is doing public relations advice for him, but this anecdotal meandering is not how I would do damage control. I think he is messaging other owners by pointing out some of the embarrassing things that have happened to him, he's taking advantage of. He is trying to subtly message them to put themselves in his shoes, because there's all sorts of public opinion forming, not with standing the racism that to expose a tape this way, to deprive someone of something because they expressed private thoughts, maybe isn't right. But that was a message to me to other owners to think carefully before you proceed because you better not have dirty linen in your own closet.

WEIR: Is this vote that the NBA owners will have, I don't know when, in the soon future, is it public? Will we be able to know which teams voted yea or nay on Donald Sterling?

STEINBERG: That's a critical point because you wouldn't think that any owner would want to go back to the fans of his city with this third rail of racism exposed and explain why they voted to keep Donald Sterling in the league. I haven't seen anything like this, Bill, maybe in a sports genre maybe Michael Vick maybe before him O.J..

This has transfixed people at every level. And anyone who would have any pr sense, and I have been in these damage control situations before, would stick to a very tight narrative and rehearsed q's and a's well before going on air. He would know how he would respond to every one of Anderson's questions. He was just sort of telling stories. I think there's a method to his madness. He's certainly not senile. I've been around him and that's how he talks.

WEIR: We were thinking last week with these leaked phone calls this is part of some shrewd strategy if I said these things and they got leaked, that was gave him way too much credit. Raoul let me bring you in here, Donald wasn't the only Sterling talking this weekend. His wife Shelly sat down with Barbara Walters. Let's listen to what the better half had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELLY STERLING, DONALD STERLINGS WIFE: I don't love him. I pity him and I feel sorry for him.

BARBARA WALTERS, HOST: What is your relationship with him today, with your husband? SHELLY STERLING: We're estranged. We've been estranged for about a year.

WALTERS: Why not divorce your husband?

SHELLY STERLING: I've been thinking about it. I filed these divorce papers. I signed them. I was all ready to file. My attorney and my financial adviser said now is not the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Why not?

RAOUL FELDER, CELEBRITY DIVORCE ATTORNEY: Well, I think her attorneys are financial adviser, should have told her to hold off. On one hand you have his interview that's from the Adolf-Eikman school of public relations. And you got this lady's interview, which is pretty bad. But, I learned something all the years I've been doing this.

Don't listen too much to what people say. It's less important than what people do. That goes for the president of the United States beginning with Roosevelt through Nixon and on up. In the last analysis, people buy tickets, it's the players. I think the players have worked their hearts out for him. I don't follow basketball but they certainly look like they don't have an ounce of energy left at the end of the day. He has given them hundreds of millions of dollars at his end. It's all out there. The one thing we know, if you're on television long enough it doesn't lie. And you saw Mr. Sterling on television there and take it or leave it.

WEIR: Now her argument that she owns half of that team, she's not a racist, she doesn't deserve to have the owners take that away, her cut of that, what do you make of that?

FELDER: Bill, I don't think they will have an easy job getting the team away from him unless he actually he made a deal with the league. You can't take people's property away because of something stupid they said. You know, if we had a quarter together between every rich old married man that talked trash to a young girlfriend he's trying to get into bed we could own this building at this point.

WEIR: But Leigh there's something different about that NBA charter, right? The constitution says we can take it away.

STEINBERG: Let's be very clear here. This is not a corner drugstore. This is not a traditional business that one invests in where you have a whole series of rights. When he bought the team, it stated clearly in the constitution there would be a whole series of restrictions, and they were granting him the charter and they could take it right back and it's really clear that if you do something to damage the best interests of basketball and the NBA, that you could have your charter revoked.

And once it's revoked he signed a piece of paper that said that the decision would be binding and final. He goes on in, I think it's 24 j to say, and I promise in essence that I won't sue or go into court. Matter of fact, there's an arbitration procedure. So if they even decided to hear an appeal it would go to arbitration, not to court. He's already waived that right. Lawyers can make any argument that they choose to make.

But this is the, a desperate attempt to hold on to a team. Can you imagine in southern California taking on Magic Johnson, who not only was an iconic player, but owns a good chunk of the inner-city, and is considered to be an exemplar. He's gone right back to the black card, you know, black promiscuous men, HIV, all the rest of it, those are code words.

WEIR: But Leigh hold on please, and Raoul, gentlemen if you will both stay there. When we come back we'll actually meet -- actually hear a point of view from somebody who filed a lawsuit against Donald Sterling for something much more than offensive comments. Gloria Allred is representing the daughter of a woman who tried to get justice against this guy. We'll hear from her when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STERLING: They are clippers, they are mine and I'm theirs. That's how I feel. I would do anything for them. I made a mistake. I hope it's in their heart to forgive me for that mistake. I don't know why the girl had me say those things

COOPER: You're saying you were set up?

STERLING: Yes, I was baited. It's not the way I talk.

WEIR: Donald Sterling talking to Anderson Cooper not perhaps doing the most convincing job of proving he's not a manipulative racist. In fact Sterling is being sued for housing discrimination or was by the daughter of an African-American woman who was legally blind, partially paralyzed. Her attorney Gloria Allred joins me now. Hi Gloria, so you had this event today. I'm sorry if I don't have my facts right. Are you bringing this lawsuit again or just representing the woman whose mother did try to sue Sterling?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS RIGHT LAWYER: Bill no, I do just represent the daughter of the 66-year-old African-American woman, Candice Jones, who was one of 19 plaintiffs and she helped to organize those plaintiffs to sue Donald Sterling because of the conditions at the Ardmore building apartments which he owned. And the allegations are horrendous.

The allegations in that lawsuit that her sink was not repaired. That her toilet was not repaired. That she had no working stove. That there was flooding in the apartment. That Eboni Jones, her daughter that was so courageous to continue the lawsuit after her poor mother passed away, may she rest in peace, said that they had to remove feces by hand from the toilet. The conditions were deplorable. This lawsuit had been brought on behalf of African-American and Latino residents of the building. It was resolved.

WEIR: In other words, he paid a settlement, right? Is that how it ended? ALLRED: It was settled, but Ebony Jones wanted everybody to know that when Mr. Sterling said look, I made one mistake which I think is what he said in the interview with Anderson Cooper. It wasn't one mistake. This is not an isolated incident. Mr. Sterling needs to be judged by the NBA owners by his entire history. And that includes what he did at the Ardmore apartments and his deplorable treatment of Candice Jones, this poor woman who had such courage to fight despite her disability. She just wanted to be in her little apartment which she considered to be her home. I mean the flooding and the fungus and the conditions. She died before this lawsuit was over. But her memory lives on and the NBA needs to take note of it.

WEIR: You want the owners to take all of it into account. Not just these comments and this interview. Let's switch to V. Stiviano. Now it seems there was some indication she gave that maybe Sterling knew that he was being recorded before. Now he denies that. So that brings up questions about whether she broke the law in recording this. Here's Anderson and Sterling talking about V.

(BEGI VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Did she ask you for money? Do you believe she was trying to extort money from you in any way?

STERLING: You know, forgive me for saying this, but she is a good person. She is a beautiful person. There's 15 of her, 15 children, 15 Hispanic kids, sisters and brothers, and she supports them all. Perhaps she's made some mistakes. I thought she cared for me. I was stupid. How could a girl care for a man 51 years older. She didn't, or she wouldn't have released those tapes. But she's not a bad person, you know. She has to survive. She's a street person. But inside she's a good person.

COOPER: Do you have the sense that she was wanting money from you, more money than you've already given her?

STERLING: I used to think I understood women. I don't think I do any more. I don't know. I don't know why she released it. She never said what you just said.

COOPER: She never directly asked for money?

STERLING: Pardon me?

COOPER: She never directly asked for money or extorted money?

STERLING: No.

(END VIDOE CLIP)

WEIR: Lets bring back in Raoul Felder, Leigh Steinberg, along with Gloria Allred. So Raoul, who would you rather represent in this case? V. Stiviano or Shelly Sterling?

FELDER: That's a hard choice. I don't know. Frankly I wouldn't want to represent either one of them. But, you know, your sports agent made it seem like they would snap a finger and get rid of this guy. What does happen is smart lawyers bring it to federal court because there's a question of fact. He has obviously has a contract, I learned from watching this, that he can't bring the league or the team in disrepute. Like most television people have a contract.

But you're entitled to a hearing on that. He may have signed away that right to arbitration. You have a right to an arbitration and then take it into the federal courts or state courts. I don't think you've heard the end of this thing except Mr. Sterling seemed to want to wash his hands and make a clean slate of things. He may have gotten a lot of sympathy, you know. I don't think so. But in a certain substrata of the population, but it's 80 and over, he would garner some sympathy, I would think.

WEIR: Gloria, let me ask you, did V. Stiviano break the law when she recorded him making those initial comments?

ALLRED: The reports are there's a criminal investigation so law enforcement will make that decision. But, you know, I'm a little disappointed you would put v. Stiviano and Shelly Sterling in the same category. You know, I think that the NBA should not be -- should not be blaming Shelly Sterling for the racist statements that her husband clearly made.

And I don't think that wives should be blamed for their husbands conduct or statements, unless they have their own conduct or statements, let them be judged on that. You know, we don't even have a woman owner of an NBA team? It's long overdue for that and she needs to be judged by herself and I don't like putting her in the same category as V. Stiviano.

FELDER: Well we heard V. Stiviano has 15 siblings and all kinds of good things. By the way, my understanding is it is against California law. California law you need consent of both parties. New York no, other states no. So there could be a potential criminal case.

WEIR: Leigh, you explained this earlier this idea that he's preaching to some members out there, other fellow owners to say he who is without sin cast the first stone, be careful. Could that work? Could ultimately that work and prolong this?

STEINBERG: I will tell you this, I feel sympathy for Gloria's client, but if you start to open the cupboards of every NBA owner and how they made the money to put these teams together you've got a whole slew of bad business practices, you don't want to go down that road. I think what we're seeing -- it reminds me when a wild animal is caught in a trap, and desperate.

So they squirm around and do the rest, maybe even bite the end of their own appendage off but they won't ultimately escape. This involves billions of dollars. The whole image of the league. Their ability to project their brand worldwide. Their ability to have sponsors, a television contract, all the rest of it. Think of the league more as a collective that operates collectively and then you have individual franchises. But the linkage between -- ALLRED: Leigh, if I may say, I think this goes well beyond bad business practices. If, in fact, NBA finds that there was a history of racial discrimination in the business practices then it is absolutely relevant to their decision and I don't think we can just slough it off and say oh, well a lot of people have bad business practices. If a person is, in fact, a slum lord. If a person is, in fact, discriminating in ways that are specific against racial minorities, against African-Americans and Latino's, that matters. I think everybody needs accountable for that including Donald Sterling.

STEINBERG: Gloria, no one is arguing with that, okay. Everyone understands the interjection of race or racially biased practices is anathema to society. The point is they already have enough evidence and already have a determination. You have the players over here saying we won't play for him as an owner. You have the league over here saying we want him out. You have a (inaudible) of interest and this ultimately is going to result in Sterling losing the franchise, and they will find a great new group of owners that will revitalize the franchise. And they will be very careful to select people --

ALLRED: Why should Shelly Sterling be penalized? Why should she be punished? I mean --

STEINBERG: She doesn't own the team. She was never approved. She was never approved. He was approved.

ALLRED: Well, here's what could happen.

STEINBERG: You need to have an owner, one owner.

ALLRED: Here's what could happen. OK, well, here's what can happen. Donald Sterling, if he would exercise some wisdom, he could in a negotiated settlement sell or give his share, and each owns 50 percent of the Clippers, to his estranged wife, Shelly Sterling, and then she could then apply for approval as an owner.

STEINBERG: She'll never get it.

ALLRED: And why should she be denied the approval?

STEINBERG: The players won't play for her.

FELDER: It was characterized as being desperate. I don't think that came across. It's sort of pathetic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is pathetic.

FELDER: This is not a desperate man. I would really be interested to know what he did on the discrimination case. You asked the right question. Did he pay up?

WEIR: He did. He paid a big fine, a record $2.7 million fine.

But anyway, Raoul Felder, Gloria Allred, Leigh Steinberg, thank you all so much. When we come back, sealed with a kiss. That moment that has sports fans choosing sides, some shocked, some saying, hey what's the big deal?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 249th pick for the 2014 NFL draft, the St. Louis Rams select Michael Sam --

(APPLAUSE)

-- defensive end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Every kid who puts pads on in peewee thinks about a moment like that, and it happened finally for 24-year-old Michael Sam on Saturday. Heard his name called, 249th pick by the Rams. But for some what happened next, cast a shadow over what should have been day of pure celebration.

Michael Sam and his partner, Vito Cammisano, celebrated with a kiss. And for some, like former Giants running back Derrick Ward, it was too much. "I'm sorry, but that Michael Sam is no brueno for doing that on national TV," he tweeted. "I'm fine with it being a new day and age, but for him to do that on national TV is disgusting, gay or not," he wrote.

And second-year Miami Dolphins player Don James tweeted "OMG," and "horrible", expressions that got him fined and suspended by his Dolphins team.

Joining me now to talk about that reaction, Ken Blackwell, senior fellow for family empowerment at the Family Research Council and Dale Hansen, the dean of Texas Sportscasters from WFAA TV who went viral with a little bit of, well, an op-ed you might call it about Sam going into the draft and how it might be -- how some NFL players thought that might be uncomfortable.

Take a listen to Dale.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALE HANSEN, SPORTS ANCHOR, WFAA-TV: It would be uncomfortable because that's a man's world. You beat a woman and drag her down a flight of stairs pulling her hair out by the roots, you're the fourth guy taken in the NFL draft. You kill people while driving drunk, that guy is welcomed. Players caught in hotel rooms with illegal drugs and prostitutes, we know they are welcomed. Players accused of rape and pay the woman to go away, you lie to police, trying to cover up a murder we're comfortable with that. You love another man, well now, you've gone too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WEIR: Dale, it's great to have you on. I'm just interested in your reaction to the events over the weekend of him falling so far, even further than you even hinted in that and then the kiss.

HANSEN: Well, I am a little bit surprised he fell that far, but I think it is because he came out as being an openly gay man now. I find it almost impossible to believe that there are 248 better NFL prospects coming out of college than Michael Sam.

But I also accept the NFL's argument that he might be what they call to be a tweener. He's not quite big enough to play defense end, and maybe he's a little too small and a little too slow to play outside linebacker. So that's possible.

But when the announcement came down, I think it's ridiculous the negative reaction to it. I even heard a radio guy in Dallas today saying that he would have been equally upset if a star quarterback had kissed his beautiful girlfriend on national TV, and I think that's absolutely ridiculous, just as ridiculous as the negative reaction to Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, at least to me.

WEIR: Well, Ken, I think you might disagree with this. What was your reaction seeing that kiss?

KEN BLACKWELL, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: I thought the kiss was inappropriate and over the top, but I am just surprised with the duplicity among owners and leadership of the NFL. I take it it was just a few years ago when there were players who criticized Tim Tebow for wearing his faith on his sleeve. There were folks who basically said he was not a good football player; that's why they were critical of him, not because he was a professed Christian who practiced his faith in all aspects of his life.

I -- I really do question the network's judgment, editorial judgment in putting the kiss on -- on TV. Look, this is a very clear opportunity for Mr. Sam and others to co-op a professional sports, in this case the NFL, as a platform and as a force multiplier for advancing their agenda.

And I say, look, he should make the team or not make the team based on his football skills, and I don't think that if you look at his numbers that he, in fact, surfaced during the combine that he was more than an average football player.

His 40 -- his time in the 40 wasn't that astonishing and that competitive. His lateral movement and a whole host of other things, his -- his start off with the ball. There were -- there were serious questions that serious football minds had about his talents.

WEIR: Let me ask you this.

BLACKWELL: Hold it. Let me just say that I hope he hasn't created a political prophylactic that will shield his inability to make the team as a football player -- as a football player because he's an advocate for a lifestyle.

WEIR: Dale, it sounds like Ken thinks that Michael Sam wants to make himself cut proof just by coming out as gay.

HANSEN: Yeah, yeah, well, I don't think I've ever heard Michael Sam say that. All I've ever heard Michael Sam say is he wants to be judged as a football player.

And the gentleman is right. There are some serious questions about his ability to transfer from college to the NFL, and I think that's one of the reasons that he was a seventh-round pick. And now I'm hoping he gets the chance to be judged on his merits. But I --

BLACKWELL: I do too.

HANSEN: -- constantly I hear this reference to Tim Tebow. Has he really forgotten about Tebowmania? Tebowmania swept this country for a couple of years. And the only reason that he's not playing after being a first-round draft pick is because he's another one of those guys who couldn't make the move from college to the NFL and play quarterback at the level they required.

Michael Sam, as I said last night in a commentary, might very well be the next college superstar that will suffer the same fate. All I want and all I think he wants is the opportunity, and the St. Louis Rams have given him that now.

BLACKWELL: And I would agree that if he, in fact, has the opportunity to make it on his football skills, that should be the determining -- that should be the determining factor. And that's always been my view. I just was -- I was surprised, and I -- I wasn't born yesterday. That was well orchestrated yesterday. That wasn't just spontaneous expression of joy.

WEIR: Well, let me ask you this --

HANSEN: Everybody does that. Everybody does that. There are so -- you think when Johnny Manziel walked on stage and started snapping his fingers giving the money sign, you think he didn't think about that? Players at almost every draft have orchestrated some aspect of a celebration. This happened to be Michael Sam's way of celebrating something that an openly gay man never had an opportunity to do before.

WEIR: Dale, let me ask you --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: You and I agree on something. There are a whole lot of behaviors that are accepted and covered up in the NFL that should have the full light of day shined on them and -- and terminated right away.

WEIR: Well, let me ask you, Ken, real quick. You believe -- you believe homosexuality is a sin?

BLACKWELL: What I believe is that the Bible basically says --

WEIR: OK, let me ask you --

(CROSSTALK)

WEIR: Do you believe that they choose to be gay or they're born gay?

BLACKWELL: I think that it's a bit of both.

WEIR: A bit of both.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, and let me speak very clear since you asked the question. I believe that natural and traditional marriage should be between a man and a woman, not two men or two women. And I think if we go down this slippery slope where love is the basis upon which we express the state's interest in marriage, then we better be ready for two men and one woman or two women and one man because there, in fact, be a point of discrimination.

WEIR: That's going to make things really confusing on draft day.

BLACKWELL: It really will be.

HANSEN: Ken, there used to be a day when the state decided that black men could not marry white women. That was a crime. Was that a slippery slope?

BLACKWELL: That -- that -- that was because of race. Let's be clear. Look, see my family has dealt with racial discrimination.

HANSEN: The state decided that. The state decided.

BLACKWELL: Like I said, two men -- a man and a woman, that was the definition of marriage. The differentiator on the state's role was the race. That was inappropriate. Now nobody has a right -- I want you guys to understand this. Nobody has a right to redefine marriage. Nobody.

WEIR: Ken Blackwell, Dale Hansen, I really appreciate you guys coming on.

BLACKWELL: Good to be with you.

HANSEN: All right, Bill, my pleasure.

WEIR: Thanks, Dale.

When we come back, what would be a life and death decision to actually engage with the terrorists who took those school girls? They say they want to negotiate or they'll never -- or the world will never see them alive again. Is that a choice that anyone is prepared to make?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: Bring back our girls. It remains the world-wide outcry ever since nearly 300 schoolgirls were taken from their beds in the middle of the night on April 14th, kidnapped by the blood thirsty group Boko Haram.

While we've heard threats from the terrorists they plan to sell these children, we haven't seen proof of life until now. About 100 shown in this video released by "Agence France Presse". A senior administration official tells CNN U.S. officials have no reason to question the authenticity. They're all wearing the hijabs, the Islamic garb there.

At least one Nigerian government official says negotiations could be an option, but should they be? Is negotiating with terrorists like this ever acceptable, even as a last resort?

Joining me now, Alan Dershowitz, legendary lawyer. His latest book is "Taking a Stand: My Life in the Law". Also Jacob Zenn, analyst for the Jamestown Foundation and joins us via Skype, an expert on this group.

Let me start with you, Jacob. Is this the M.O. for this group, Boko Haram? Have they sold some of their kidnapped victims before?

JACOB ZENN, JAMESTOWN FOUNDATION: In fact, Boko Haram has largely learned about this kidnapping tactic from other Islamist militants in the Sahel region of Africa, particularly al Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb.

The first such kidnapping by Boko Haram was in February of 2013 when it took captive a French family in northern Cameroon and ended up ransoming them for more than $3 million.

Later, Boko Haram started taking the family members of government officials and getting in the tens of thousands of dollars and the release of many of their prisoners in jails in Nigeria and Cameroon.

Now it has escalated to much larger scale with this kidnapping in Chibok of more than 200 girls where Boko Haram should expect large ransoms and many prisoners to be released.

WEIR: That's almost perverse that this world-wide attention might be raising what they think they can get, Allen, for this. We know the U.S. policy, never -- at least we know of. We don't know if there's any, you know, behind the scenes deals going, but what do you think? Should we all chip in and buy these girls back and then go after the guys who took them?

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, LAWYER: Well, every Democratic country says its policy is never negotiate with terrorists, and every country negotiates with terrorists when humanitarian demands weigh heavily on the conscious of the country.

This would be a very bad deal to negotiate and make a deal with them. Because they are talking about soft targets. They'll just kidnap 200, 300, 400 more people. They'll go to hospitals. They'll go to kindergartens. They'll go all over. The stakes will go up. They'll become more and more prominent.

So in the end, I think you can't negotiate the release of prisoners. Moreover, we don't even know which prisoners they want to have released. Would they be prisoners who would attack Americans? It's not only Nigerian prisoners, prisoners from many, many other countries. So I think it's bad -- look, if you can negotiate release the girls and then attack the terrorists and prevent them from doing it again, of course, that's a win-win. But if you negotiate a release, give them what they want, they're just going to do it again and again and again, and it's going to be the beginning of a terrible, terrible cycle where more and more people will be hurt.

WEIR: Jacob, that seems to back up what you said historically about this group. It just emboldens them to keep going.

ZENN: Right, the stakes have only increased from kidnapping the daughters of government officials in small numbers such as five or six. Now it's 250. Moreover, even if you try to make a deal for these girls, it's not clear that Boko Haram will return all 250 of them. They might return 180, but Boko Haram still has 70 girls as a bargaining chip moving forward, and they can carry out further attacks with the skilled militants that will be released from prison.

WEIR: Do you think the Nigerian government would go for this? You've heard about the --

DERSHOWITZ: Well, they said all options are on the table. And the closer you to the victims, the more pressure there is from family. And when you have the first lady of the United States holding up a sign, obviously the pressures are enormous. And we all want to see the girls returned safely.

But there's no guarantee they will be returned safely. Moreover, it has been said they have been converted to Islam. And it's a capital offense under Islam to reconvert to Christianity. So they may have accomplished already much of what they want, and they may have married, or in the process of marrying, some of these girls off.

This is a very complicated interaction because of the religious nature of it, the terrorist nature of it. But I think a democracy has to stand (inaudible) Now, the United States has given the other countries some wiggle room and said, look, we don't negotiate with terrorists, but you do what you have to do.

WEIR: OK, Alan Dershowitz, Jacob Zenn, we appreciate it. We'll be right back.

ZENN: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: It is one of the most talked about kisses in television history, no, not this one. This one. William Shatner as Captain Kirk. That's Nichelle Nichols as Lieutenant Uhura. And together in 1968, they broke a color barrier with their lips, which was not easy.

1968, racism had people bleeding in the streets. So you had to give it to "Star Trek" creator Gene Roddenberry for being brave. But he also had to be creative. Writing an interracial romance into the show at that time could have got people hurt. So the way the scene plays, they're being forced to kiss by bored aliens with telekinetic power. Staff members recall some nasty letters after that aired. But they were outnumbered by positive responses at a rate of about 100 to one.

And it was a couple years later, 1971, when another taboo was broken, and "All in the Family" wrote the first gay character into a network television script. Ironically, he was a macho former linebacker named Steve. And Archie Bunker worshipped his masculinity, which was a great set up for the big reveal, which happens during an arm wrestling match because how else are you going to get Archie hoe told hands with a gay guy the moment he comes out?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL O'CONNOR, PLAYED ARCHIE BUNKER: For one thing, he thinks that friend of his Roger is straight. As for another thing -- well Steve, you're going to want to bust him wide open when I tell you this. I don't know where he gets these (inaudible). But he thinks that you're -- I can't even say it, Steve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's right, Arch.

O'CONNOR: Huh?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Once again, give it up to the show creator, Norman Lear for being brave and creative. The word gay never even appeared in that show. But it was a watershed moment in the young gay rights movement.

And as time passed, from a lesbian kiss on "L.A. Law" to Ellen's coming out to Will and Grace and beyond, the need for bravery kind of faded. The biggest threat to same-sex romance on television was predictability, boredom.

Which is why Michael Sam's moment with his boyfriend is such a television watershed. It was the first unscripted gay kiss, not from a so-called reality show, but on a network devoted to the human drama of sports. It wasn't forced by bored aliens with telekinetic powers or liberal TV executives with an agenda.

It was an explosion of emotion any fan could understand. I mean, this guy spend three days twisting in the draft winds, getting passed over by team after team, pick after pick, three days wondering whether the sport he loves would reject him just because he's trying to be true to himself.

And when his name was called, that's relief. That's pure joy. It's been said that characters like Mitchell and Cam on "Modern Family" allowed President Obama to evolve on the question of gay marriage. You gotta wonder whether Michael Sam's non-fiction orientation will change anyone else's mind any faster. And of course there's a huge number of people out there wondering, well, if guys are kissing on ESPN, what' next? Bearded cross dressers winning global talent contests? Well, yes. Behold, Conchita Wurst, the Austrian drag queen that just won Eurovision, a huge talent competition. It drew 120 million viewers over the weekend. His real name is Tom Neuwirth , but he chose the name Wurst as a stage name because it means both sausage and it's all the same in German. It's all the same. At the end of the day, how you look, where you come from, the only thing that really counts is the person you are.

So a big weekend for divas and beards, and defensive ends with boyfriends, and love, and acceptance. And Archie Bunker would have hated it.

That's all for us tonight. I'm Bill Weir. "CNN'S SPECIAL REPORT" with Don Lemon starts now.