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Dr. Drew
Donald Sterling: "I Made A Mistake And I`m Apologizing"
Aired May 12, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Donald Sterling in his own words.
DONALD STERLING, CLIPPERS OWNER: It`s a terrible mistake and I`ll never do it again.
PINSKY: Is he really sorry? What about the rumors of dementia?
Ms. Ali will join the behavior bureau.
PINSKY: Then, Jay-Z physically attacked by Beyonce`s sister. We`ll show you her kicking and punching assault. What would cause a sudden outburst?
Plus, the online virgin backs out of sex with the highest bidder. She`ll tell us why.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m joined tonight by my co-host Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, we`ve got a 41-year-old teacher who marries his 16- year-old student with -- get this -- the mother`s consent.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, and wait until you hear the reasoning for her consent.
PINSKY: Oh, I can`t wait.
But, before we go out there, we`re going to go to a video that`s viral and blowing up on Twitter again. Because Donald Sterling is now playing the damage control game. He spoke exclusively to CNN`s Anderson Cooper.
Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: I don`t give interviews.
I`ve hurt so many people, so many innocent people. I`ve hurt myself. I`m so emotionally distraught.
And the reason it`s hard for me, very hard for me, is that I`m wrong. I caused the problem. I don`t know how to correct it.
I love my league. I love my partners and am I entitled to one mistake? When I listen to that tape, I don`t know how I can say words like that. It`s not the way I talk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Mark Eiglarsh, from speaktomark.com, Vanessa Barnett, from hiphollywood.com, and, Loni Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell."
Vanessa, does this apology do anything for you?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Absolutely not.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Somehow, I figured that was the case.
BARNETT: Surprise, surprise.
You know, I was very appalled the apology seemed more like he was trying to become the victim. He`s like, oh, it`s just one mistake. His little face is all wrinkled. Oh, she baited me. Oh, she did this. I`m just 80.
It was all about him and how he`s the victim and how he`s hurt and how he`s so -- I don`t buy any of it.
PINSKY: And Sterling throws the word racist back at Anderson Cooper during the interview. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: I think you`re more of a racist than I am.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: How so?
STERLING: Because I`m not a racist. And I`ve never been a racist and I`ll never be a racist.
I don`t know what that means, that type of mentality. You`re asking me a question, what do you mean a mentality?
COOPER: Plantation mentality is to feel like you own these guys, they`re working for you.
STERLING: Do I own them?
COOPER: I don`t know.
STERLING: My players earn $100 million a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Mark, have at it.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: OK. I`m not a racist, I just say a lot of racist things.
SCHACHER: Right.
EIGLARSH: That`s good enough for me. That`s enough. I don`t need to label you anything.
It`s like, Drew, take one of your addicts, person who`s using all day and night, I`m not a drug addict.
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: But you`re using all day long.
PINSKY: That`s right.
EIGLARSH: I think that this guy financially is extremely rich, but in terms of common sense and self-awareness, he is impoverished.
SCHACHER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: I agree with you, he doesn`t seem to understand what a racist is, but I`m going to ask -- I`ll ask Loni this. Is it possible that we`re seeing some effects of aging on this guy? His wife alleges that he has dementia. I`m going to talk to the behavior bureau about that.
Is it possible that he is succumbing to the effects of aging?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No. I don`t think so. I think that`s a very different thing. I think that -- Anderson Cooper was asked that question. Said, look, as he was talking, aging and dementia affects your memory, doesn`t change your mindset and principles and character and whether you become all of a sudden, you know, have this great bigotry in your mind or not.
And that`s what he was showing. As mark said as much add he wanted to say he wasn`t, when he rent went on this rant about Magic Johnson, it just showed that everything right there, in full force, he doesn`t even get it, himself, as he sit there and spouts about Magic Johnson of all people.
SCHACHER: This is not an isolated incident. There`s a longstanding history of allegations that he`s a racist. I`m with you, Vanessa. The fact that he apologized but then diminished that apology by immediately placing the blame on Vanessa Stiviano for baiting him, I`d have so much respect for him if he would just own up, have self-awareness and say, listen, I guess I`m not as tolerant as I would like to be, but he doesn`t.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hang on. Mark? Mark?
EIGLARSH: I didn`t see dementia. What I saw was delusion. The guy at 81 thinks this 30-year-old chippy is actually really into him in that`s delusional.
BARNETT: That`s the term you use.
PINSKY: Chippy.
BARNETT: Never heard that.
EIGLARSH: Is that appropriate? Did I offend anybody?
SCHACHER: I don`t know what that means.
PINSKY: I think that`s a character -- that`s a personality quality that is it is the unyielding throughout the life span and can become more pronounced when things like minimal cognitive change kick in with aging.
I want to bring in a body language expert. This is Lena Sisco, senior instructor from the Body Language Institute -- to see, Lena, if you can infer anything about his body language that tells us about his personality construct.
LENA SISCO, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT (via telephone): I can, Dr. Drew. First off, if you notice throughout this interview, he`s having that posture of hiding the neck, exposing his palm saying, hey, I`m vulnerable right now, I`m powerless.
When people show us the palm of their hands, saying, listen, I`ve got nothing to hide, look at my hands. I screwed up and now I`m apologizing.
And about his personality, he is an 80-year-old man. He doesn`t care what he says. He`s not thinking of consequences.
My grandmother right before she passed away when she was 80, she would say things that would make you want to hide under a rock and look at her and say, gram, you can`t say that. She`s like, why not?
He doesn`t get it. What he does get is he screwed up. He gets that he has to apologize.
PINSKY: Thank you, Lena. I want to talk about what Lena -- hang on. Put have Vanessa alongside to me and see how she reacts. I`m going to explain what Lena was just describing.
When people get older they sometimes develop something called hypo frontality, where the frontal lobes of your brain, which are there to responsible to bridle --
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: Fear of blacks.
PINSKY: -- and contain our impulses. Mark, I can`t believe you said that.
EIGLARSH: That`s what he`s suffering from.
PINSKY: He is suffering from lack of understanding of his own racist impulses but the reason it may be coming out may be the bridle is gone, those frontal areas of the brain deteriorate and people come out with things --
EIGLARSH: Coming out now? He has a history of this thought process. Don`t give me that. Come on.
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: It`s a longstanding history. He still feels this way whether it`s coming out because of front lobal -- I`m sorry, Dr. Drew, you lost me.
At the end of the day, he is racist. And the only reason he`s apologizing is he wants to keep his team.
SCHACHER: It`s not a real apology.
PINSKY: The frontal lobal as Vanessa put it, the front lobe, the hypo frontality, again, is something that can develop. And the question is -- listen, I`m still not defending this guy. I`m just wondering the way we`re taking off after him if we`re being discriminatory -- listen, hold on.
SCHACHER: If he didn`t have a history.
PINSKY: You`re going to love this. Hold on. I`m not saying this, but it just makes me wonder, discriminatory toward somebody with a brain problem with the effects of aging.
EIGLARSH: You need to check your front lobal overload. Something is wrong with you tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Think about that. And then, I will have the ultimate response to my query. I`m bringing Ms. Ali in here and she`ll have at it.
So, we`ll be right back after this.
EIGLARSH: Check her front lobal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STERLING: I don`t know why the girl had me say those things.
COOPER: You`re saying you were set up?
STERLING: Yes, I was baited. It`s not the way I talk. I guess being 50 years, 51 years older than her, I was deluding myself. I just wish I could ask her, why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spoke to ABC News.
V. STIVIANO: Mr. Sterling`s right hand arm. His silly rabbit.
TOMMY LASORDA, BASEBALL MANAGER: I don`t wish that girl any bad luck, but I hope she gets hit with a car.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Hit with a car.
I`m back with Sam.
Now, Twitter is blowing up on this topic and some comments I made in the last segment, too.
SCHACHER: Yes, I was reading the tweets in the break and there are a ton of them. More than normal. Please keep the tweets coming @DrDrewHLN.
PINSKY: And we like embedding our show during social media. So, we`ll be watching it during the show and put them up during the show as well.
So, speaking of getting hit by a car, TMZ reports that V. Stiviano was in a car accident this afternoon, right?
SCHACHER: Yes, breaking news, Dr. Drew.
So, TMZ reported that she was in this car accident in Beverly Hills. She was driving a Ferrari, the Ferrari that Donald Sterling gave her. She was wearing her signature big old visor.
PINSKY: Oh, nice.
SCHACHER: And apparently --
PINSKY: Her welder`s mask.
SCHACHER: That`s true. Exactly.
And, apparently, according to a number of people on the scene she went insane. She was cussing, she was yelling, she said, quote, "do you know who you`re messing with, mother f-er?"
PINSKY: Oh, nice.
All right. Let`s bring in the behavior bureau, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Erica America, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "The Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, and Shahrazad Ali, social commentator, author of "The Blackwoman`s Guide to Understanding the Blackman."
If you want to enjoin in this conversation, tweet us right now, @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau.
Ms. Ali, I hear you sighing already. So, please, what are your big thoughts?
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR (via telephone): Well, I think that, you know, this country has forgiven Christopher Columbus, George Washington, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, a host of white men who have said horrible things about black people and this is not the first time this happened.
Don`t forget, it wasn`t that long ago we were forced to listen to these comments but we had to laugh.
PINSKY: Does this kind of stuff -- I mean, what do African-Americans feel when they hear this kind of nonsense from a guy like that? Because you and I have talked about the black holocaust as you call it. I`ve talked about the trauma that`s transmitted inter-generationally from slavery to the present.
Does this inflame those wounds or to you just dismiss it?
ALI: Well, actually what happens is we work very hard to normalize our captivity. And this means that if a white person is providing us with a job where we can take care of our family and live large and do the things we want to do in life and be successful, we tend to be easier on him and let him slide more. Like I said, we let a lot of people slide. We let each other slide.
And so, when I listen to him say that, I think he`s genuinely sorry that he got busted, got caught. He`s embarrassed.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
ALI: The other thing is, I agree with that other comment you made. I think they might want him out. I mean, that would be doing business in the corporate boardroom with your grandma.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Is that ageism, though? Is that saying somebody elderly is not entitled to own something they want to own?
ALI: Now, he can own it, but he needs some kind of proxy because that`s just reality. I wouldn`t feel like dealing with him.
PINSKY: All right, Ms. Ali.
ALI: Here`s the other thing. I`m worried, Dr. Drew, about the thought police. We can`t think something, say something. He didn`t use the "N" word. He just made some comments.
PINSKY: I agree with you. These thoughts are in this guy`s heart and because he has an early cognitive problem, these things expressed themselves.
I want to show you an interview that Sterling`s estranged wife Shelly did with Barbara Walters at ABC. She was asked if she discussed the race tape with her ex-husband. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHELLY STERLING: He saw the tape and he said, I don`t remember saying that. I don`t remember ever saying those things.
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS: What did you think then?
STERLING: That`s when I thought he has dementia.
WALTERS: Really?
STERLING: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So there we go. We have the wife saying my theory about the dissolution, the dysfunction of the frontal lobes of the brain are shared with the ex-wife.
Judy, do you share those ideas?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I do believe that it`s possible he actually has dementia. I mean, one out of seven people after you turn age 71 to have dementia. So, it`s definitely likely.
However, the dementia doesn`t make you a racist. It just disinhibits. So, you`re more likely to say the things in your head but you just can`t keep them in anymore. And --
PINSKY: Yes, and?
HO: And most of the problems are with short-term memory at the early stages of dementia. So, it`s really not this type of thing where it`s an autobiographic thing.
PINSKY: Right. I don`t think it`s dementia, per se. I think it may be something called minimal cognitive change.
Erica, your thoughts?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100: Yes, there might be some of that.
OK. He starts off saying he`s sorry, he`s crying, that his mistress might no have been honest with him. Oh, I`m so sorry. But thank you, Anderson Cooper. Love you, Anderson, for that amazing interview. I think he laid out for us all we needed to see, how he really felt.
He said he didn`t mean what he said but then he goes on a rant about Magic Johnson that because he has HIV, that he`s not a good example. That`s -- anybody can get it. It`s not somebody`s fault that they have HIV. And he didn`t do the rest of his life doing positive work.
So, I`m sorry, I think he`s sorry what he said. I think that he`s sorry that he got caught. So, I agree with Ms. Ali there? And I think this guy has got an old school mentality of being racist.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I don`t think he understands that he`s racist. I agree, he`s discriminatory against a man with a chronic illness called HIV.
Leeann, last thoughts?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I thought he was kind of pathetic. When I first watched it, I almost felt sorry for him not in what he said, because what he said was awful and terrible.
Sure, he has a right to think what he thinks but when it`s affecting so many people and they`re calling for him to resign and sell the team, which obviously he doesn`t want to -- I mean, he actually said -- well, if they`re going to make me, if the other team owners are going to do it. Who knows? Those are all billionaire businessmen, too. We`ll have to wait and see if they`re going to force him out and make them sell that team.
PINSKY: All right. Here`s my last thoughts. One, I agree with Ms. Ali, being thought police is really something problematic. We have to think long and hard about that. I do believe strongly that he`s dis- inhibited as what Judy said, dis-inhibited because of some dysfunction in the frontal lobes of the brain, early dementia or minimal cognitive change. Neither those things make him a racist but it disinhibits him and make him likely to express things.
ALI: Oh.
PINSKY: I`m not making excuses, Ms. Ali --
SCHACHER: Did he have that his whole life?
ALI: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Ms. Ali, sorry, I have to go out to commercial.
OK, we`re going to get yet -- I`ve got another topic, another teacher accused of having sex with an underage student. We`re going to talk about what that has caused by. Why, though, would a mom implicitly endorse this? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say Ellen (ph) turned herself in Thursday. She`s charged with three counts of sexual battery with a student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dirty talk, and then they were texting, texting nude pictures to him and that type of stuff, and from there, it just went on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The wife and mother also had sex with the victims in the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of it took place at the school. She also was picking one of them up in the morning and having sex with him in the morning and then in the afternoon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam.
Another topic that is hot on social media, this married mother of three children, high school teacher accused of having had sex with three different students at a so-called house party. Students` attorney says that was not the only time she was engaged in these activities.
So, let us bring in behavior bureau to discuss -- Judy, Erica, and Leeann.
All right. Erica, all students were seniors. Two of them were 17. The other 18. Does that make any difference?
AMERICA: You know, we have to remember, even if the perpetrator, the alleged perpetrator is a woman and it`s a boy and he`s saying, yes, it`s still sexual abuse and that a teen`s brain is not fully developed until much later. So, he might not be making a decision that`s good for him and the effects can come up later.
Now, what I see with this woman is possible pedophilia because she can`t control her impulses. She`s done it three times if not more, and it got worse and worse. It started with the texting, then it got to meeting up, then it was sex.
So, are these people going into teaching jobs because of their predisposition that they have?
PINSKY: Yes, it could be.
Now, Judy, let`s continue to speculate about this. So, if she has a pedophilia -- she could be bipolar manic unable to contain herself. If she`s pedophilic, then you suggest that she had abuse in her childhood. I`ve dealt with a number of these teachers in my career who had these behaviors. And that has always been there in every single one I`ve dealt with, with or without bipolar.
What say you?
HO: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And that`s one of the most common things we do see in these individuals who tend to perpetrate on teens, that they have sexual abuse history, themselves. Another thing is that they tend to be very, very lonely in their interpersonal lives. And so, even though she`s married and has three children and maybe seems to have this facade of a very average maybe even good balanced life, she probably feels really isolated and that`s another risk factor as well.
SCHACHER: You know what the most outrageous part about this obviously, yes, this teacher preying on three students that we know of, the fact when I was looking through social media, so many people were not upset about it. Again, a double standard.
PINSKY: It`s a double standard.
SCHACHER: Let me ask, Judy, please. Let everybody out there know, when a male student, even if he`s consenting, has sex with his female teacher, how does that affect him just like it would with a female student and male teacher?
PINSKY: Or a male patient with a female doctor. It`s the same phenomenon, or male patient with female therapist.
SCHACHER: Can we please talk about this?
PINSKY: It violates boundaries and has profound effects on the kids. Judy, answer.
HO: And I`m so glad that you brought that up, Sam, because these teen boys are more likely to not trust women when they grow up, to be hypersexual themselves. And actually, they will be more at risk to rape or sexually abuse other people, continue the cycle that Dr. Drew brought up.
So, I want to make that really clear. When I hear these misconceptions about the male victims, it drives me crazy because they`re susceptible to some of the most egregious risk factors that we just discussed.
PINSKY: Leeann, I know how when Judy and I talk about, Erica and I talk about the causes --
SCHACHER: Drives me crazy.
PINSKY: Please don`t mistake giving an explanation for the circumstance that caused this with an excuse for the behavior. If anybody out there, Leeann, you`ll appreciate this, so cooperate with me on this one. If anyone out there has that history and is having these impulses, get help before you hurt somebody, because if you act out, then none of this matters. Then the legal system comes in.
Leeann, is that OK now? Is that good?
TWEEDEN: It`s OK but it does drive me crazy you guys are doctors, so you`re looking at it from that perspective. But to me, it`s always like giving somebody a pass, oh she must be mentally, you know, there`s something wrong with her. She must be bipolar, she must be manic.
She must be -- no, how about she`s crazy? How about you give her the maximum sentence, she can`t teach again. These are obviously very smart people. She`s college educated. She`s teaching students.
SCHACHER: Right.
TWEEDEN: She`s taking these young boys. Even if a boy, of course, every boy is going to think with his penis, excuse me. And they`re going to go, oh, this is great. She`s my teacher, it`s kind of sexy. It`s kind of fun.
That`s never OK. You prey on young children --
SCHACHER: Please make sense of this.
PINSKY: So, here`s the bottom line, then we got to the next story which is a similar story. But bottom line is big people take care of little people. When a person who is in development has boundaries that are crossed, whether they`re emotional boundaries, physical boundaries, sexual boundaries, it damages their development. It changes their sense of people in authority. It causes them to think differently of themselves and different of people whom they should trust. They grow up not trusting.
People don`t trust, they rupture their relationship with others which we need, we need deep relationships with other people or it is traumatizing. So when people, when young people grow up with trauma, they build distrust. When big people violate that trust, it has profound lifelong effects potentially.
Now, the next story, an adult teacher who marries his 16-year-old student with the mom`s consent.
Back with that one after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with a 16-year-old girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A drama teacher marries his 16-year-old student with the consent of her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged victim and Guardiola were married in Las Vegas two weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go to Vegas to avoid prosecution?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the police say the relationship started before the couple was married.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You started it before she was 16, age of consent? Yeah. That`s child abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The girl told police she was in love with him. Police say text messages revealed she was having sex with Guardiola. The teen`s mom approved of the relationship and even traveled to Las Vegas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: My god. I`m back with Samantha Schacher. That 41-year-old drama teacher was investigated for this relationship with a 16-year-old student. His solution as you heard in the video piece, let`s go off to Las Vegas and get married then it will be legal. The problem is they had sex before they had tied the knot, and the legal age of consent was well beneath what he was looking for.
SCHACHER: And they saw that on the phone -- on the cell phone -- on a text. She said, I love having sex with you. That was before they got married.
PINSKY: That was enough.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. There it is right there. There`s that text, I guess it is. Let`s bring back Judy, Leeann, Loni. Leeann, the cops say the mother agreed to this marriage because this is the part that I`m disgusted by, because the mom was afraid if she didn`t, it would, quote, hurt her daughter`s acting career.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh. Oh wow.
TWEEDEN: First of all, the mom thinks she`s a good actress. I mean, how many people do we hear, Oh, my kid is going to be the next American Idol, then you hear them sing, and you`re like I don`t -- it`s because you`re the mom that you say that. First of all, this guy is scum. I`m sure he`s preyed on other little girls that he`s taught before, and acting coach. And obviously, the mom and the daughter believe this. They want this so bad. I`m sure probably the daughter wants to be the next Charley Steiner(ph), and if he`s telling her that, and he`s having sex with her, she`s feeling like the most special girl in the world. And the mom actually fell for it. She needs to have her parent card taken away. I mean, obviously, this is just so wrong in so many different ways.
PINSKY: Leeann, I`ve seen you nodding there. The mother not only consented to the marriage, she was at the wedding. It`s awesome. Loni, that was for you.
COOMBS: Yeah, the mother had to be there at the wedding because she`s 16. You can only get married at 16 if the mother consents. You know, I understand the daughter falling for this. That`s when the mother is supposed to step in and say, no, my child, you don`t sell yourself. You don`t pimp yourself out for a job. This is where you say no. And believe me, he doesn`t love you. He`s doing this, so, he doesn`t two to jail for what he`s been doing to you, and I`m the first one going to the police telling them that they need to put him in jail for what he did to you. Instead, the mother is like, hey, let me catch the bouquet, and you know, play the wedding marches.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Fame. It`s terrible, in the mom`s mind.
PINSKY: And Judy, let`s get into the 16-year-old brain a little bit. People because they look like an adult, people think that it`s OK for them to be treated like an adult. But a 16-year-old, four years before that, three years before that may have been prepubescent. These are children, so, who just into their development.
HO: They are absolutely children so Dr. Drew, and actually, I saw a tweet there by Danine, and she had said that we do sexualize some of our younger children, teens. And that`s true. But like you said, just because they look like they might be women, they are not women. In fact, their moral development is not complete until they`re at least 18 or 19. At age 16 they barely know right from wrong and they`re really just responding to, I don`t want to be punished more than what is the grander scope of whether something is wrong or right? They don`t think about those subtleties yet. And so, this is one of the issues here because they`re always in this dynamic where the teacher has that pull on the younger person.
PINSKY: Right. That`s right.
HO: And that`s never going to be consent.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, this seems to occur more and more and more. Or maybe not, or maybe because of all the trauma that you talk about. What is your thought?
PINSKY: Well, I`m glad you brought that up, Sam, because I do believe that at the core of all this, people are traumatized in their childhood and when you`re traumatized, people tend to become attractive to people and places, that guess what, relive that, revivify that trauma for us, because the kind of person who perpetrated the trauma in the first place is the same kind of person who will perpetrate it again. And the strange thing about the human brain, that we`re attracted to the things that were sort of terrorizing to us in childhood. We don`t know why that is, but if you have trauma, be careful with the attraction to people and places. Super exciting for you, and you`re a trauma survivor, you may end up reliving the trauma all over again.
Next up, more social media. Viral videos of two tormented kids begging for help, but you might not believe who, in fact, posted this video. And we`ve got some concerns and we`ll discuss after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me what happened today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom, I`ll tell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, stand by and tell what happened, Benny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy named (BLEEP) on the playground. He said you`re gonna die by suicide. They called me a son of a (BLEEP), and a (BLEEP).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just pretend like the camera ain`t even here. Just tell me like you told me when you got home, Anna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell you what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come, pumpkin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don`t want to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, then if you don`t wanna tell me what happened, if don`t wanna tell me honey, what happened, honey. Tell me how it makes you feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel sad.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam Schacher. There we go. This is some of the new manifestation of social media, which is, parents documenting the traumas their kids experience at school. That video was posted on a Minnesota mom`s personal Facebook page. Has head now, tens of thousands of views. Let`s bring back in Mark, Judy and Vanessa. School officials apparently met with both parents just hours ago, and they claim they`re doing everything they can to make the children feel safe. Vanessa, I`ve got a question, though. Is it right for this mom to have posted this video or subjected these kids to this interview on camera?
VANESSA BARNETT: Absolutely not. You can tell that the daughter really doesn`t want to do this. And she says over and over again, I don`t want to talk about it, I don`t want to talk about it. And the mom is almost just, you got to say it, you got to say it. Say something for the camera. I got to post something on my Facebook. And you really wanna believe that her intentions are pure but this daughter also says that the bus driver is driving them to school drinking wine. Why isn`t she making an uproar about that? I`m more concerned about the drunk driver than I am about bullying. This mother needs to teach her daughter the tools to handle this, and to handle it privately in their home. It didn`t have a place on Facebook. I don`t think that her intentions were pure in this.
PINSKY: Vanessa says it`s not good. Mark, what do you say?
MARK EIGLARSH: Yeah. I like Vanessa`s necklace tonight, not sure I love the argument. You know, I`ve got three children and will do whatever it takes to protect them. I believe the mother had the best of intentions. I think that she shouldn`t have done it until she spoke to the school, but in her mind, she wasn`t thinking that. She was thinking protect my children. And look what she`s getting as a result. They`re taking her seriously. And they`re doing something about this problem.
PINSKY: But Sam, are they taking it seriously or is she -- are the kids feeling more shame by being subjected to the camera?
SCHACHER: You know, that`s where I`m conflicted, because I tend to agree with, Mark, here. I get where you`re coming from, Vanessa, but the thing is that they went to the school and still -- there was no result. I think it`s a damn shame that the school finally did something only because they felt that they were threatened by the bad publicity. But at the end of the day, this school needs to take this -- this is a learning experience and really implements a no tolerance for bullying.
PINSKY: All right. Net good maybe but, Judy, you understand what I`m saying? I saw you nodding your head when I said this could be further shaming to these kids who feel victimized.
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. And I know that the mom had the best intentions, but in her pursuit for justice, she`s actually re-traumatizing this child and opening her up to further re-victimization because people who are bullied tend to be bullied over time. Especially when other people find out they`ve been bullied.
PINSKY: Yeah.
HO: So, other people who watch this video, other children maybe may even pick on this child even more. And so, I`m just really worried that it sets her up for risk factors later in life, depression, anxiety, suicidal intent. We know this about bullied children.
PINSKY: It`s easy to go to those extremes, but let me say this about this whole story, that we don`t know. We don`t know. This is part of the process of us milling through this experience of social media. The mom`s intention was good. Even, Vanessa, will agree with that, Sam, will agree with that. Mark believes that. I think her intentions were good. I think it does further shame the child. I agree with, Judy, that she might be subjective to further victimization because this thing is out there. Believe me, on social media, people will say horrible things about those kids and they may be able to read them and respond to them. So, again, social media is a new tool, but it`s a tool with a double -- it`s a double- edged sword that we need to learn how to use it. Think things through before you post them, particularly when it`s about victimization or dependent people. I`ll say it again. Big people take care of little people. We don`t use them as a means to an end.
Next up, bids in an online sex auction topped $800,000. So, why did this virgin who was selling herself in the end back out?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH RAINE: The whole concept doesn`t offend me. I don`t attach a particularly high value to my virginity.
PINSKY: Do you need the money? Are you desperate for money to pay for med school this way?
RAINE: No, I`m not at all desperate for money.
PINSKY: The young woman you heard is a 28-year-old medical student, who`s auctioning off her virginity.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR: Why are we still talking about this whole fraudulent scam that this woman is perpetrating on all of us? It`s not true. She`s doing this for fame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. I miss Anahita today.
SCHACHER: She would have loved to been here for this story.
PINSKY: She nailed it. She was not buying Elizabeth Raine who claimed to be selling her virginity to the highest bidder. And I wasn`t buying the fact she was in medical school. She was not. I get offended by that.
SCHACHER: She was not?
PINSKY: Not in medical school. In fact, her P.R. person, who I hopefully get to talk to in a minute, her former P.R., said she was taking her qualifying exam being casual(ph) last Friday. She`s in a bioengineering program at the University Of Washington and they were not happy about this, which I have a feeling is why she backed out of this. She backed out as I`ve said. She said this why she backed out on her blog which is called, quote, musingsofaversionwhore.com. quote, the terms of the auction will not be fulfilled. I have decided it is time to put a stop to this kerfuffle to describe it nicely and return to my focus on my medical training. Let`s bring back in, Leeann, Erica, and Vanessa. Leeann, you actually e-mailed me over the weekend about this. Well, you`re delighted to be right about this.
TWEEDEN: Oh, come on. I`m with Anahita on this. I was on that same segment and called her out, too. I mean, remember, Dr. Drew, you asked her what she was studying. She goes, I prefer not to. You asked her what field she was studying.
PINSKY: Yeah, right.
TWEEDEN: She goes, I don`t want to talk about it, and you go, what kind of medical tests are you taking? Are doing your whatever right now? And she goes, I don`t like.
PINSKY: She didn`t know what I was talking about.
TWEEDEN: She had no idea what you were talking about. And I always thought from the very beginning that this girl was full of BS. Like, I didn`t believe her. Those pictures I don`t believe of the girl, whose portraying, who she was as Elizabeth Raine or whoever. I don`t think it`s.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: So, you think that`s not even her picture?
TWEEDEN: No, I just think it`s somebody that`s coming up with this idea that is getting a kick out of it. They knew the world would pick up on it. I mean, musings of a virgin whore? I mean, really, what girl is gonna talk about that? I mean, it just seems so stupid. I think it`s a complete sham.
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: Yeah, it is a sham, but I`m more concerned with the fact that, one, that girl in that picture -- I do believe it`s her, but she ain`t nobody`s 28.
SCHACHER: Photo shop.
BARNETT: She`s also nobody`s virgin. And thirdly, as you stated, she is in nobody`s medical school. I just feel like the whole thing was a sham from the get-go.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: So, first of all, as usual, a little applause. A little applause round of applause to, Vanessa. But Erica, I want to ask a tougher question. And I feel a little violated by the sham, but why are women reacting before it became clear that this was all sort of -- at least put on to some degree, women really reacted negatively to her. Why do you think that is?
ERICA AMERICA: Well, I think there`s a lot of an element to this. I looked at it a number of ways. Was this a financial act of genius, where she actually charging people just to bid money and she never had the, you know, the plan.
PINSKY: The intention.
AMERICA: Of going through with it? Or I`m thinking this is person actually have some issues around sexuality and being a virgin and fame and those kind of things, and is there some either personality disorder going on, mental illness? This is.
PINSKY: Go ahead, finish your thought.
AMERICA: OK. So, this is how my little test is. If she drops off, you know, the face of the universe and does her med school thing, and we never hear from her again, I think maybe that this was just, you know, a little thing. But if she has a book come out, or if she shows up somewhere else, then we know that this is something about attention and fame and money for her.
PINSKY: That`s right. Sam, is this another side effect of social media? Is that what we`re looking at here that this is one of the.
SCHACHER: Well, this is somebody manipulating social media to work to their advantage.
PINSKY: Will there be new pathologies because of social need that.
SCHACHER: I 100 percent think so. I think this is a good case, but I have to tell you the reason why women are rubbed so the wrong way, it`s because of the fact that she used feminism as one of the reasons why she did this. Come on.
PINSKY: Right. I agree. That was a little bit of a stretch. Look, I want to bring on the phone the former publicist of this woman, her name is Siobhanne Sweeney. As of Friday she has severed ties with Elizabeth, but as far as you know, now, Siobhanne, why did she call off this auction?
SIOBHANNE SWEENEY, PUBLICIST FOR ELIZABETH RAINE: Hi. We were might aware from her, she was told by her dean at the school that wasn`t allowed to go through with the auction or do any more interviews. Then we went off to the back on that and she pulled the auction without us knowing, and we think that we wake up to the website being amended. So, we went happy with that, of the fact. But all we did in the fact(inaudible), but the reason we did decide to, I guess, come out of our relationship with her is 24 hours later she did line up interviews for her. You can see, we didn`t really see, you know, what the story she had told us, that she was not allowed to go through with it. She was not allowed to do anymore interviews.
PINSKY: Maybe because if -- Siobhanne, just so I`m clear what you`re saying, because the university, I guess she`s at Wash U. In graduate program for bioengineering, not a medical school, but still, a very prestigious program nonetheless, they`ll have none of this and allow her to remain a student there. And I`m predicting they`ll also take some punitive action against her as well, is that not true?
SWEENEY: Yes. Yes. Actually it`s qualifying exam that she`s doing this week, in Friday.
PINSKY: That`s called an (inaudible), everybody. That`s not a qualifying exam. She`s still trying to get into medical school. Let`s call this what it is. Being in a graduate program, bioengineering, that school`s reputation is on the line and they`ll have none of this. Is that true?
SWEENEY: That`s right. I`m wasn`t that particular on.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Thank you. I got to go, now. Next up, what drove a woman who appears to be Beyonce`s sister to attack a man who appears to be Jay-Z. We`re gonna look at that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Well, I`m certain this video is something Beyonce and Jay-Z hope would not get out, but social media got a hold of it. And Twitter can`t stop talking about it. TMZ has published video that appears to show that Beyonce`s sister, Solange, attacking Jay-Z in an elevator. It all went down at the standard in New York City after the met ball. The video shows the woman who appeared to be Solange is taking a few swings at Jay-Z. Hits him with her purse, kicks him while a bodyguard attempts to restrain her, you see that there. CNN has not independently authenticating this video but it appears someone recorded it, actually recorded it off the hotel surveillance system. The Standard Hotel is investigating this internal security breach. Judy, Erica, and Vanessa are back. Sam, you got your side. Do you get something to say about this?
SCHACHER: I mean, I said earlier he officially has his 100th problem.
PINSKY: Yeah. I don`t know what to do with that. Erica, I feel bad for him. You actually posted a video about this on your own, was it on Instagram?
SCHACHER: I saw it.
AMERICA: Yeah. I mean, this was the biggest thing of the day, OK? Jay- Z, Solange, Beyonce, and the thing that`s so big about this, is people have Beyonce, particularly, and Beyonce and Jay-Z on this pedestal as though they`re god and goddesses, that they could have no problems. And here we see something behind the scenes of any familial dysfunction. Now, there`s a lot of things that I have to say about this. I noticed that Jay-Z and Beyonce are very restrained, which to me.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, Beyonce -- look at Beyonce. Hey, Erica, hold on. Beyonce`s chin is actually down. She looks sort of sad and downtrodden a little bit. You`d think she`d jump in, or hold her hands up or something, but finish, Erica.
AMERICA: Right. So, to me this seems like something that`s happened before. This is their way of this is what happens when Solange gets like this, we don`t fight back.
PINSKY: However this is.
AMERICA: The second thing -- Yes. Now, the second thing I want to say is that -- now my mind just went completely blank. We have this -- that celebrities are real people as well.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: And how hard must it be to be Solange, Beyonce`s sister her whole life with this above your shoulders, that maybe there`s some jealousy that`s been brewing over the years and simply manifested.
PINSKY: Or maybe she`s always been the protector, Vanessa, of Beyonce and maybe Jay-Z did something to make her feel like she needed to bring the sister protective mechanism in?
BARNETT: Yes. I mean, she went ballistic. So, your initial thought is, what did Jay-Z do? I also believe that, she may have been under the influence of something, maybe a little drink, here there. But I hear people say, Beyonce didn`t do anything, Beyonce didn`t step in. What do you expect? That`s her sister. That is her husband. It`s a very difficult position to be in. And there are moments with she kind of steps in the middle, you know, she picks up her phone, her clutch, you know, get off my dress. You know, there`s a moment that she tries to put a shoulder in, and tries to defuse the situation. You can`t blame Beyonce. What is she supposed to do?
PINSKY: You can`t blame anybody. But Beyonce and Solange left together while Jay-Z took a separate car. Listen, these are people who are struggling with very complex lives. I feel -- I`m not happy about this. I think it`s unfortunate that their privacy, again, this whole night we`ve been talking about things that, will people slip a tape recorder under somebody? It`s on social media and all of a sudden that`s formal record, somebody is in the elevator and something happens. We don`t know what happens here. Judy, I`ve got about 30 seconds. You know what I`m talking about that there are side effects to social media that we`re just all starting to struggle with now.
SCHACHER: Nothing`s private anymore.
HO: When we look at Beyonce`s reaction, what do you expect for her? She`s got to protect her image and her money maker. And so, because social media is so invasive, you can`t expect her to act the way that maybe you think you would act in this situation.
PINSKY: Right. That`s exactly right. So, we will keep an eye on this. Of course, social media is lit up on this particular issue, but let`s give them a break. Let`s try to be thoughtful in how we deal with social media and the images we see on social media and don`t have the mob mentality we`re so prone to and become bullies ourselves. Forensic Files starts right now.
END
